View Full Version : CCW Badges Good or Bad Idea?
SuperiorDG
12-02-10, 15:01
When I conceal carry is it a good idea to have a CCW Badge?
Pros: Hopefully if I am defending myself I will not get shoot by the police arriving on scene.
If the general public happens to see my gun they are less like to call me in to police.
Con: Will I be seen as a cop impersonator.
Is it illegal in Colorado?
I think most will tell you it's a bad idea, although, I do understand the reasoning behind them.
I thought the whole idea of concealed carry was so that nobody knows you're carrying? I see way too many disadvantages to advertising the fact.
I thought the whole idea of concealed carry was so that nobody knows you're carrying? I see way too many disadvantages to advertising the fact.
I think your missing the point. It's not a badge you wear outside your clothing. It's a badge you would theortically show the Police in any circumstance so they can somewhat differentiate you from say Joe Scumbag.
I think your missing the point. It's not a badge you wear outside your clothing. It's a badge you would theortically show the Police in any circumstance so they can somewhat differentiate you from say Joe Scumbag.
And Joe Scumbag can buy one too, right?
Count on being treated like a bad guy until the cops have determined otherwise. Badge ain't going to do it.
Chris
It's bad.
Whatever your intentions, it makes you look like a cop wannabe or a someone trying to be a police impersonator.
Do not expect any good treatment from the police if you use one or they find one on you.
Badges are signs of authority and must be issued as such by some organization or entity with the recognized ability to do so.
You cannot buy authority outside of an S&M club, and I could be wrong about that because I'm really not sure how that works.
SpookyPistolero
12-02-10, 15:28
There is absolutely no logic behind that practice. It's something on page 37 of a gunrag to separate folks from the cash.
Hmmm.
Someone with two posts raises a question like this is usually an indication for the mods or admins to check IPs and such to see if is a recurrent troll.
And Joe Scumbag can buy one too, right?
Count on being treated like a bad guy until the cops have determined otherwise. Badge ain't going to do it.
Chris
Yep he sure can. I'm not saying just cause someone has a badge and flashes it is gonna be left alone. Obviously any Officer is going to do some investigating regardless and figure out whats going on.
When I conceal carry is it a good idea to have a CCW Badge?
Pros: Hopefully if I am defending myself I will not get shoot by the police arriving on scene.
If the general public happens to see my gun they are less like to call me in to police.
Con: Will I be seen as a cop impersonator.
Is it illegal in Colorado?
I think your missing the point. It's not a badge you wear outside your clothing. It's a badge you would theortically show the Police in any circumstance so they can somewhat differentiate you from say Joe Scumbag.
Concealed means concealed...meaning no one should know you have a gun unless it comes into play. If I ever printed and someone noticed enough to ask me, I'd tell them it's my multi-tool/cell phone/colostomy bag/etc. Carrying a badge on your belt is a great way to get to possibly charged or detained for impersonating an LEO. You have a permit in your wallet, no?
In the event you do use your weapon, the best way to avoid getting shot by LE is to not have a weapon in your hand. Put it down, holster it, just don't be some idiot with a CCW badge in one hand and a pistol in the other. If a shooting occurs, they won't just see your badge and let you go. You'll still probably be taking a ride, giving a statement, etc. The CCW sash may be the only thing that's a worse idea than the CCW badge.
Instead of a CCW badge you can always get one of these :rolleyes:...
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1054/ccwbanner.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/ccwbanner.jpg/)
http://www.dsmsafety.com/ccw.html
I think your missing the point. It's not a badge you wear outside your clothing. It's a badge you would theortically show the Police in any circumstance so they can somewhat differentiate you from say Joe Scumbag.
Oh, sorry. What I theoretically would show the police in such a circumstance is my concealed carry license. But that's just me.
I'm not advocating the use of a CCW badge.
Depending on the laws in your area you may or may not get charged with impersonating a LEO. One night we got a call involving domestic violence in Public. Some citizens who witnessed it tried to intervene, the gentleman who was assaulting his wife flashed a badge and told the citizens it's not their concern. When we made contact with him and id'd him turns out he was a Bail Bondsman. He never made the claim that he was a Cop, so he wasn't charged with impersonating a LEO. But was charged with Domestic Assault in the end.
If you want to carry a badge join a force. Anyone else just seems like a tool in my opinion.
Black Jeep
12-02-10, 15:55
Oh, sorry. What I theoretically would show the police in such a circumstance is my concealed carry license. But that's just me.
Yup. That's why states issue those licenses.
Now, if I was carrying nun-chucks or a samurai blade I'd probably get one. :sarcastic:
Militant83
12-02-10, 15:59
Instead of a CCW badge you can always get one of these :rolleyes:...
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1054/ccwbanner.jpg (http://img840.imageshack.us/i/ccwbanner.jpg/)
http://www.dsmsafety.com/ccw.html
The glow belt will save you every time no matter what the situation...lol
I don't know how other states do it but here in ohio id you have a ccw you have a, id with your picture on it as your ccw permit. Which you show the cop when pulled over or however you came in to contact with a cop while carrying. so no need for a badge that anyone can buy.
I'm sure if your state thought it was a good idea, they would have issued you one...
Personally I think it would be a horrible idea. IMO the best thing you can do if you have to use your weapon and the cops are on the way is to put the weapon somewhere out of sight before they get there. When they show up and you're holding a gun they will be blind and deaf to anything else until they've seen to it that you're NOT holding the gun.
SuperiorDG
12-02-10, 16:07
First off, thanks for the feed back so far. Let me try and explain my situation. I知 a small business own and carry concealed everyday in my normal course of business. I have two permits, one form CO and the other from FL so I知 covered in more states. I have taken a few training classes, one from Magpul which I think is one of best classes ever.
I visit customers in their homes and businesses daily and have never, knock on wood, printed. This being said, I know how to conceal my 1911 and two mags. But one day, God for bid, I get into a situation out in public and the situation is going to hell fast I may not have the time or opportunity to pull my CCW from my wallet. So I guess the question is: is it better to have the police see that badge, because at this point my shirt is open so I could get to the gun, when arriving on scene with his/her adrenaline following out the ears and possible prevent me from getting shoot by mistake. Or is the downside of having a badge out way the above example?
The idea of the badge is to reduce some tension with responding LEOs to a shooting. LEOs arriving on scene seeing a badge may think its one of their own. Again this is the idea of the badge helping you in a stressful situation. This is not my opinion and again I do not advocate the use of this badge as a security blanket. If you do get involved in a shooting and LEOs arrive on scene follow their commands and everything will get sorted out. Don't get upset when you get gun faced as there are protocols to be followed. Don't give LEOs a reason to shoot you when you did nothing but defend yourself.
OhioFinance
12-02-10, 16:17
The theory behind using one and the reality of having one are so far apart its not even funny. I think having one would only cause someone to put themselves in a bad spot by either being seen as a police impersonator or not reacting properly when police arrive on the scene of this ficticious shooting situation. Badge or no badge most people, police included are only going to see the gun and react accordingly. Oh and you will be seen as a tool by anyone who has ever carried a badge for a living.
The idea of the badge is to reduce some tension with responding LEOs to a shooting. LEOs arriving on scene seeing a badge may think its one of their own. Again this is the idea of the badge helping you in a stressful situation. This is not my opinion and again I do not advocate the use of this badge as a security blanket. If you do get involved in a shooting and LEOs arrive on scene follow their commands and everything will get sorted out. Don't get upset when you get gun faced as there are protocols to be followed. Don't give LEOs a reason to shoot you when you did nothing but defend yourself.
Exactly the reason they are "used". In theory it's the same reason off duty LEOs carry a badge and that's to show themselves to be one of the good guys to responding officers at a distance. I think most people hope that it will help defuse a very tense situation.
I don't carry one and don't see a need but I understand the motivation. My chances of being in a shoot out are pretty slim and I'm not going to carry around a good guy badge just in case it happens.
The theory behind using one and the reality of having one are so far apart its not even funny. I think having one would only cause someone to put themselves in a bad spot by either being seen as a police impersonator or not reacting properly when police arrive on the scene of this ficticious shooting situation. Badge or no badge most people, police included are only going to see the gun and react accordingly. Oh and you will be seen as a tool by anyone who has ever carried a badge for a living.
Who gives a shit what they think? Better to be a breathing tool than a dead guy defending himself. The rest of your statement I agree with.
Nevermind... Unsubscribed from this one. Have a good day everyone.
What you want the police to see is that you are not a threat and that you intend to comply with their instructions while things are sorted out. A phony badge may make them think that you are another cop initially but when they figure out that it isn't a real police badge, they probably aren't going to be too happy.
I wouldn't bank on them noticing a badge on your belt with everything else that is going on and pointing a shiny object in your hand at them might not be too healthy under those circumstances either. Badges work for cops because they are able to show them in conjunction with identifying themselves as police officers. You can't do the same without commiting a crime, so you are better off finding a better way to let the police know that you aren't someone who needs shooting.
Terrible. Awful. Bad. Idea
Alpha Sierra
12-02-10, 16:51
First off, thanks for the feed back so far. Let me try and explain my situation. I知 a small business own and carry concealed everyday in my normal course of business. I have two permits, one form CO and the other from FL so I知 covered in more states. I have taken a few training classes, one from Magpul which I think is one of best classes ever.
I visit customers in their homes and businesses daily and have never, knock on wood, printed. This being said, I know how to conceal my 1911 and two mags. But one day, God for bid, I get into a situation out in public and the situation is going to hell fast I may not have the time or opportunity to pull my CCW from my wallet. So I guess the question is: is it better to have the police see that badge, because at this point my shirt is open so I could get to the gun, when arriving on scene with his/her adrenaline following out the ears and possible prevent me from getting shoot by mistake. Or is the downside of having a badge out way the above example?
I've never been in a gunfight. But I've watched many real ones involving cops, criminals, and sometimes armed citizens on TV and on various video websites.
The one thing that strikes me the most is that most are very violent, very fluid, and OVER VERY QUICKLY. I seriously doubt you will have cops getting there while "your shirt is open to so you can get to the gun". It will most likely be over long before cops get to the scene.
As soon as the shit is over with, scan, assess, holster as soon as able and call the cops. They may already be on the way because some third party called but YOU want to be the first of the involved parties to call and establish you are the victim. If you do not feel safe doing so at the scene, retreat someplace where you do but CALL THE COPS.
If by some slim chance the cops get there while your pistol is still on your hands, DROP IT LIKE A BAD HABIT and comply with their orders immediately, accurately, and without question or statement. Once they take control of the scene, they will give you a chance to speak.
All of the above will do more to ensure you don't get shot by the police than some made-in-china chrome plated pot metal POS will ever do.
Bad idea.
Not only will responding cops suspect you of impersonating an officer, if anyone else at the scene, (ie, the guy you pointed your gun at, or one of his friends), has the bright idea after the fact to tell the cops you did claim to be a cop, you're screwed.
Having seen and run many shooters through shoot houses, I will tell you that very few people ever see badges on the cop targets we use. So a CCW badge isn't going to save you from anything.
IMHO, after a shooting, scan 360 and SLOWLY put your weapon away. Step away from the body and get against a wall or corner. Call 911 and advise them what has happened and what you look like.
EXPECT some new cop to show up at the scene with their gun out, finger on the trigger, sweating buckets. Have your hands up and comply with all their commands.
C4
Instead of a badge, just have your CCW in front of your license in the clear plastic part of your wallet. The badge would be concealed anyway. What difference does it make, other than looking like an impersonator? Most important thing to do is to follow the LEO's instructions to the tee when they arrive, then inform them you are a law-abiding citizen with a valid CCW.
Hmmm.
Someone with two posts raises a question like this is usually an indication for the mods or admins to check IPs and such to see if is a recurrent troll.
I heard through the grapevine they let Gunkid out of jail.
Having seen and run many shooters through shoot houses, I will tell you that very few people ever see badges on the cop targets we use. So a CCW badge isn't going to save you from anything.
IMHO, after a shooting, scan 360 and SLOWLY put your weapon away. Step away from the body and get against a wall or corner. Call 911 and advise them what has happened and what you look like.
Good advice.
EXPECT some new cop to show up at the scene with their gun out, finger on the trigger, sweating buckets. Have your hands up and comply with all their commands.
It may even be an old cop, even a very savvy old cop, that shows up ready to shoot. He/she may have gotten the call with very little in the way of details, and it's hard to figure out who the good guys are immediately. If you've just dropped a neighborhood dirtbag, his friends may have already told 911 that you're the bad guy.
Even cops with badges out get taken down at nervous gunpoint, when it's dark and there's lots of screaming going on. Trust me, I've been proned out under that exact scenario.
Good advice.
It may even be an old cop, even a very savvy old cop, that shows up ready to shoot. He/she may have gotten the call with very little in the way of details, and it's hard to figure out who the good guys are immediately. If you've just dropped a neighborhood dirtbag, his friends may have already told 911 that you're the bad guy.
Even cops with badges out get taken down at nervous gunpoint, when it's dark and there's lots of screaming going on. Trust me, I've been proned out under that exact scenario.
Agree.
C4
Six Feet Under
12-03-10, 00:24
I think they're a horrible idea.
Maybe it's just me (and I'm not a cop), but if someone is complying with my demands when I show up to a shooting, they're PROBABLY not the bad guy. Same logic goes for those who openly declare they have a carry permit and are armed on a traffic stop.
The small chance of getting shot by the cops or another armed citizen is one I'll take in order to have a means of defending myself and my family/friends when I'm out in the world. When blue lights show up, guns get holstered or set on the ground and hands will be in the air. That's what I did when my buddies and I were stopped by the cops while shooting on (unknown to us that it was posted as we saw no signs) some property back in high school. I saw the sheriff's deputy pull up and yelled for all of them to put down the guns and make sure they didn't make any quick movements and keep their hands where he could see them until he told us what to do. Worked out fine, no draw down, he didn't shoot any of us.
GermanSynergy
12-03-10, 01:17
IANAL- but here is my take on it:
Asking for trouble. If an LEO sees it and questions you, you could be in a precarious legal situation, with you explaining the need to carry a badge and a gun, w/o being a sworn LEO.
Additionally, if you are involved in an incident where you had to either present or fire your handgun, and the authorities see you with a badge, it could lead to additional trouble- such as them viewing you as a Walter Mitty looking for trouble, lone wolf, etc.
Long story short, lots of cons and not a single pro I can think of.
CCW badges are about as gay as two guys ****ing.
please dont be that guy.
When the police show up to a bad scene, everyone is a bad guy until proven otherwise. As stated earlier, put the gun down, keep your hands in plain view, and comply with police instructions. Let things get sorted out after everything is under their control. You may get put face down and cuffed until that happens. Just comply. Put yourself in their position and you will understand.
If necessary, you can complain later. You will be alive to do so.
Good advice.
It may even be an old cop, even a very savvy old cop, that shows up ready to shoot. He/she may have gotten the call with very little in the way of details, and it's hard to figure out who the good guys are immediately. If you've just dropped a neighborhood dirtbag, his friends may have already told 911 that you're the bad guy.
Even cops with badges out get taken down at nervous gunpoint, when it's dark and there's lots of screaming going on. Trust me, I've been proned out under that exact scenario.
This should probably be the final word on this topic.
Good post.
CCW badges are about as gay as two guys ****ing.
please dont be that guy.
My thoughts uhh no I agree gay. Don't be one of those "guys"
It's not very smart thing to do. See this thread in Defensive Carry Forum (http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?25924-CHL-Badges).
Robb Jensen
12-03-10, 06:10
I think it's a bad idea for a few reasons:
1. real LEOs might accuse you of impersonating a police officer
2. real bad guys might see your badge and think you're a police officer and kill you.
Having a concealed weapons permit (concealed handgun permit if VA) allows you to carry a gun. It doesn't make you a police officer and you haven't taken an oath and aren't sworn like a police officer. All it gives you is a legal way to carry a concealed handgun. Concealed means concealed. If you can't conceal your handgun then you probably need another better method of carry or need to adjust your clothing toward carry. The only time someone should notice that you have a firearm is either someone knows you and knows you carry or you have to draw you handgun because you're about to fire it in defense of your life or the life of a loved one.
Bolt_Overide
12-03-10, 06:13
horrible idea.
Bad idea.
I think everyone has already touched on most of the reasons but having a shiny object in you hand is not what you want when the cops show up.
Shootings happen fast. Once it is over if you can call 911 then do so and let them know that you are the good guy and what you are wearing.
If you can safely put your gun away (ie bad guy is down and there are no more threats) then do so.
When the police arrive there is about a 99% chance they're going to prone you out. Don't argue. Go with it. They are only doing it for their safety until they confirm you are who you say you are. Once everything is made safe they will sort out who you are.
CCW badges are about as gay as two guys ****ing.
please dont be that guy.
Sweet baby Jesus that was funny.
I've seen a guy twice now around my town with one. The guy is old, REALLY tall, overweight, walks with a cane, and wears a Stetson the size of Texas. Like that doesn't draw enough attention to himself he open carries a pistol and wears his CCW badge attached to his holster. No, it's not a decorative concho. I saw it up close. It was hard not to laugh out loud while I was reading the words on it in the produce section of Sam's Club.
The second time I saw him I was working the election (as a poll worker) and he came through to vote. When we reached into his wallet to show me his DL I saw he had the badge in a badge holder wallet like off-duty cops use. He wasn't OC'ing that day I suspect because he was in an off-limits carry place (churches are off-limits in GA as are voting places). I did wonder if he was CC'ing though.
DON'T CARRY A CCW BADGE. THEY ARE LAME.
Magic_Salad0892
12-03-10, 07:20
I work with a guy who has one of these stupid ****ing things.
ANNOYANCE.
I think a CCW badge would be a great accessory to a CCW sash, CCW hat and a CCW car flag... ;)
gtmtnbiker98
12-03-10, 07:32
Personally, if I respond to a call where a person has a gun and is wearing a badge, guess what? I am going to detain the person, question the person, and quite possibly arrest the person.
Here in Ohio, the law reads:
”Impersonate” means to act the part of, assume the identity of, wear the uniform or any part of the uniform of, or display the identification of a particular person or of a member of a class of persons with purpose to make another person believe that the actor is that particular person or is a member of that class of persons.
Long story short, it is a bad idea. BKB0000 summarized his opinion and I must say, I agree.
Having a concealed weapons permit (concealed handgun permit if VA) allows you to carry a gun. It doesn't make you a police officer and you haven't taken an oath and aren't sworn like a police officer. All it gives you is a legal way to carry a concealed handgun.
Amen. On some other forums, permit holders are always spinning scenarios and what to do about non life-threatening situations that are better left to LE. "You're in IHOP/Denny's/Wafflehouse, and you seem some thugs get up without paying for their food...what do you do?" :sarcastic:
I've never been in a gunfight. But I've watched many real ones involving cops, criminals, and sometimes armed citizens on TV and on various video websites.
The one thing that strikes me the most is that most are very violent, very fluid, and OVER VERY QUICKLY. I seriously doubt you will have cops getting there while "your shirt is open to so you can get to the gun". It will most likely be over long before cops get to the scene.
As soon as the shit is over with, scan, assess, holster as soon as able and call the cops. They may already be on the way because some third party called but YOU want to be the first of the involved parties to call and establish you are the victim. If you do not feel safe doing so at the scene, retreat someplace where you do but CALL THE COPS.
If by some slim chance the cops get there while your pistol is still on your hands, DROP IT LIKE A BAD HABIT and comply with their orders immediately, accurately, and without question or statement. Once they take control of the scene, they will give you a chance to speak.
All of the above will do more to ensure you don't get shot by the police than some made-in-china chrome plated pot metal POS will ever do.
This bears repeating.
Bulldog7972
12-03-10, 09:43
Not to offend anyone, but these CCW badges are about as dumb an idea as ideas go. I suspect that only a Walter Mitty would wear one. As far as the green sash being "gay", I unfortunately had to work the Gay Pride Parade this year. Guess what the "queen" of the parade wore? You got it, a lime green slash. I wish I had taken a picture.
When I was a ccw instructor in AZ years ago state DPS sent out a letter to all the instructors asking us to tell our classes not to buy those badges and to warn them that using those badges in public would result in prosecution for impersonating an officer. I always thought those things were gay anyway, that letter just told me they were not only gay but stupid too.
Amen. On some other forums, permit holders are always spinning scenarios and what to do about non life-threatening situations that are better left to LE. "You're in IHOP/Denny's/Wafflehouse, and you seem some thugs get up without paying for their food...what do you do?" :sarcastic:
Have massive intestinal distress?
Oh wait... I'd get that anyway.......
Rob Haught
12-03-10, 17:15
Yep he sure can. I'm not saying just cause someone has a badge and flashes it is gonna be left alone. Obviously any Officer is going to do some investigating regardless and figure out whats going on.
Even if you have a real badge you will not be "left alone" in the aftermath of a use of force involving your CCW. Its just not smart. If you want a badge, earn it.
I'm sure if your state thought it was a good idea, they would have issued you one...
Right................the state knows best; it's taken OH years to get the law right.
FWIW.
I don't see what a 'badge' does for you that your permit card does not. I see in the NRA catalog and interesting OWB holster with a plastic window on the front for your permit - the concept being it's readily accessable and when you have your gun you have the card.
Rob Haught
12-03-10, 17:28
In any interaction with LE, the officer will be much more interested in safely dealing with your firearm that the speed you can whip out your card. There will be plenty of time to calmly display it and explain your status as a CCW holder.
I had considered one of these a while ago and asked around. Multiple friends of mine are LEO and one friend who is an attorney who's resume reads like a spy novel.
Their collective response summed up is:
1. It WILL NOT accomplish what you want. That is, it will not keep you from getting shot by some cop who panics or even keep you from being treated like a criminal initially by investigating LEOs.
2. It WILL make the investigating LEOs question your story, motives during the shooting, and sanity for carrying one.
3. It COULD make a DA more likely to prosecute/charge you. And their argument to the Grand Jury will be that you are obviously a cop wannabe and a vigilante. You could have gotten yourself out of the bad situation. Or you would not have been at the location it occurred in the first place if you didn't think you were a bad ass from some cop sitcom. You should have backed down/run away but you didn't. You have a hero complex and were looking for trouble. If charged, this is one of the worst things you could have done to yourself. Very hard to argue against.
God forbid you intervened to help someone else using lethal force and had one of these on you.
In summary: Only bad things can happen by carrying one of these.
EzGoingKev
12-03-10, 17:54
There was a guy I knew that has a leather holster that he would carry an old .38 Police Special in and it also held one of those BS carry badges.
This guy was THE biggest douche on the planet. He was the only one I ever saw with one. If you knew him, you would NEVER consider wearing one.
Magic_Salad0892
12-04-10, 04:10
If you want a badge, earn it.
Sig material.
As a career Police Officer a CCW "Badge" is not going to cut it. I'm going to want to see a certification card with your picture on it. Same with an off duty Police Officer I don't recognize. And you better damn sight do exactly do what I tell you as soon as I do or you are going to have problems. If I tell you to drop that high dollar custom piece of your and you decide to put it down gently to keep from scatching it, you WILL end up regretting it. Believe me that I can justify doing what I feel is necessary if you do not comply and that "Badge" just shouts wanna-be.
Douche bags use CCW badges....
They are a bad idea, geared to separating fools from their money. There is NO scenario whereby you will NEED a badge.
As said in previous threads, don't be that guy.
Don't be that guy who gets arrested by LE after a shooting, with witnesses saying "He had a badge...and a gun...and I thought he was gonna shoot me"
I'm embarrassed that someone would even ask such a question. It would be the same thing as saying, "Hey, Look at me". It would be a talking point to the people who can't manage their egos. That is why a permit is on a card, so that it is inconspicuous. Aside from everything mentioned relating to getting roughed up by police when they arrive after you've used your weapon, and you can count on this, it gives the Libs more reason to **** with people who want to own guns, responsibly. Headlines read,"Person was accidentally shot when another person wielded his gun and badge saying, 'it's ok maam, I have a badge'." Don't the Libs have enough teeth already?
Douche bags use CCW badges....
They are a bad idea, geared to separating fools from their money. There is NO scenario whereby you will NEED a badge.
As said in previous threads, don't be that guy.
Don't be that guy who gets arrested by LE after a shooting, with witnesses saying "He had a badge...and a gun...and I thought he was gonna shoot me"
This too!
Bulldog7972
12-04-10, 08:15
As a career Police Officer a CCW "Badge" is not going to cut it. I'm going to want to see a certification card with your picture on it. Same with an off duty Police Officer I don't recognize. And you better damn sight do exactly do what I tell you as soon as I do or you are going to have problems. If I tell you to drop that high dollar custom piece of your and you decide to put it down gently to keep from scatching it, you WILL end up regretting it. Believe me that I can justify doing what I feel is necessary if you do not comply and that "Badge" just shouts wanna-be.
As another career Police Officer I wonder if you are going to shoot me because I "place" my gun on the ground when you want me to simply "drop" it on the ground.
As another career Police Officer I wonder if you are going to shoot me because I "place" my gun on the ground when you want me to simply "drop" it on the ground.
This is a good point. I don't recall receiving any "justification for shooting a person if he sets his gun down when told to do so" training at the academy.
See what kind of nonsense comes out when a subject comes up that is, frankly, nonsense.
SuperiorDG
12-04-10, 10:01
I had considered one of these a while ago and asked around. Multiple friends of mine are LEO and one friend who is an attorney who's resume reads like a spy novel.
Their collective response summed up is:
1. It WILL NOT accomplish what you want. That is, it will not keep you from getting shot by some cop who panics or even keep you from being treated like a criminal initially by investigating LEOs.
2. It WILL make the investigating LEOs question your story, motives during the shooting, and sanity for carrying one.
3. It COULD make a DA more likely to prosecute/charge you. And their argument to the Grand Jury will be that you are obviously a cop wannabe and a vigilante. You could have gotten yourself out of the bad situation. Or you would not have been at the location it occurred in the first place if you didn't think you were a bad ass from some cop sitcom. You should have backed down/run away but you didn't. You have a hero complex and were looking for trouble. If charged, this is one of the worst things you could have done to yourself. Very hard to argue against.
God forbid you intervened to help someone else using lethal force and had one of these on you.
In summary: Only bad things can happen by carrying one of these.
Best answer yet, thanks for the input everybody. Consensus: Bad Idea. Now I can spend that money on that new Magpul RSA when it comes out.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-04-10, 11:29
As a career Police Officer a CCW "Badge" is not going to cut it. I'm going to want to see a certification card with your picture on it. Same with an off duty Police Officer I don't recognize. And you better damn sight do exactly do what I tell you as soon as I do or you are going to have problems. If I tell you to drop that high dollar custom piece of your and you decide to put it down gently to keep from scatching it, you WILL end up regretting it. Believe me that I can justify doing what I feel is necessary if you do not comply and that "Badge" just shouts wanna-be.
This is not to be aimed at any other LEO's as I have immense respect for all of you. But, does anyone feel creeped out by this post from Ironnewt? That is we set our gun down lightly he will possibly shoot us, make us regret it, and then be able to totally justify it later?
Why did you shoot this decorated Marine and CCW holder to death Officer Ironnewt?
Well, he set his gun down too slow!
Maybe Im wrong, but to me that sounds alot like the death of Erik Scott: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/12785291/3-officers-involved-in-shooting-at-summerlin-costco?redirected=true
And alot like the threats to open carriers by a CA police officer on facebook in which he was officially reprimanded.
Again, no disrespect here, but thats an eerie post to me.
The only way I would ever say this is ok is if I owned the company that made them. But seriously... horrible idea.
As a career Police Officer a CCW "Badge" is not going to cut it. I'm going to want to see a certification card with your picture on it. Same with an off duty Police Officer I don't recognize. And you better damn sight do exactly do what I tell you as soon as I do or you are going to have problems. If I tell you to drop that high dollar custom piece of your and you decide to put it down gently to keep from scatching it, you WILL end up regretting it. Believe me that I can justify doing what I feel is necessary if you do not comply and that "Badge" just shouts wanna-be.
I bet the skateboarders really cower when you're on patrol at the inner harbor.:rolleyes:
Here is some real advice. Put your dam gun away if the trouble is over. Don't have a gun in your hand when the police show up. That advice will serve you far better than some stupid toy.
Wow, I just noticed that it took me 3+ years and this thread to finally say something!
jklaughrey
12-04-10, 12:56
Horrible, if not worse than putting yourself into unnecessary risky situations because you can legally carry a firearm. I would prone out my Priest if he had a firearm even knowing he carries legally.
Ironnewt, your bravado and lack of professionalism in your post not only disgraces you but all of us who do "the job". Courtesy and respect go a long way, no need to act like "mall ninja/ billy jack". Be cool, calm, and collected.
First off, thanks for the feed back so far. Let me try and explain my situation. I知 a small business own and carry concealed everyday in my normal course of business. I have two permits, one form CO and the other from FL so I知 covered in more states. I have taken a few training classes, one from Magpul which I think is one of best classes ever.
I visit customers in their homes and businesses daily and have never, knock on wood, printed. This being said, I know how to conceal my 1911 and two mags. But one day, God for bid, I get into a situation out in public and the situation is going to hell fast I may not have the time or opportunity to pull my CCW from my wallet. So I guess the question is: is it better to have the police see that badge, because at this point my shirt is open so I could get to the gun, when arriving on scene with his/her adrenaline following out the ears and possible prevent me from getting shoot by mistake. Or is the downside of having a badge out way the above example?
Dude, if the cops are called and it is said that you have a gun, and they approach you and treat you hostilely, follow commands, get on the ground, and IMHO, let them take the gun off of you.
A badge to me removes the concealed portion of a CWP to me, as it says "I have a gun on my person." I'm an NRA member and GOA member and honestly I won't put those on my car because frankly, sometimes I may leave a gun in the car, and I don't want a smash and grab on my car looking for guns.
A badge? Bad idea, IMHO.
Bulldog7972
12-04-10, 21:44
This is not to be aimed at any other LEO's as I have immense respect for all of you. But, does anyone feel creeped out by this post from Ironnewt? That is we set our gun down lightly he will possibly shoot us, make us regret it, and then be able to totally justify it later?
Why did you shoot this decorated Marine and CCW holder to death Officer Ironnewt?
Well, he set his gun down too slow!
Maybe Im wrong, but to me that sounds alot like the death of Erik Scott: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/12785291/3-officers-involved-in-shooting-at-summerlin-costco?redirected=true
And alot like the threats to open carriers by a CA police officer on facebook in which he was officially reprimanded.
Again, no disrespect here, but thats an eerie post to me.
Yes, I do feel creeped out by this which is why I posted previous to this post. I'm not sure that the poster is really a Police Officer, but that he is a wannabe. At least I hope so. Frankly, I don't remember ever hearing such an inflammatory or ridiculous post as that in a long,long time.
Horrible, if not worse than putting yourself into unnecessary risky situations because you can legally carry a firearm. I would prone out my Priest if he had a firearm even knowing he carries legally.
Ironnewt, your bravado and lack of professionalism in your post not only disgraces you but all of us who do "the job". Courtesy and respect go a long way, no need to act like "mall ninja/ billy jack". Be cool, calm, and collected.
It sucks having to constantly defend the profession, especially when some make it hard to do so.....
Yes, I do feel creeped out by this which is why I posted previous to this post. I'm not sure that the poster is really a Police Officer, but that he is a wannabe. At least I hope so. Frankly, I don't remember ever hearing such an inflammatory or ridiculous post as that in a long,long time.
Law enforcement recruits from the same pool as any other job, and there will always be some that are in the wrong profession......
As a career Police Officer a CCW "Badge" is not going to cut it. I'm going to want to see a certification card with your picture on it. Same with an off duty Police Officer I don't recognize. And you better damn sight do exactly do what I tell you as soon as I do or you are going to have problems. If I tell you to drop that high dollar custom piece of your and you decide to put it down gently to keep from scatching it, you WILL end up regretting it. Believe me that I can justify doing what I feel is necessary if you do not comply and that "Badge" just shouts wanna-be.
FFS.
.
Strider5.56
12-04-10, 22:31
I think it would be a bad idea to have a CCW badge for a few reasons. First, all your going to do is give others who are responsible CCW holders a bad name. How would the court view it? Witness-"Well all I saw was a man in plain clothes flashing a badge then shooting at people." Witnesses always screw up eye witness testimony. If I responded to a call where a guy with a CCW badge shot somebody, I would think "Great, now we have CCW people who have the volunteer fireman sydrome." You know, the ones that have lights in their personal vehicles and drive fast for thrills. Don't give the gun-haters something to use against good gun carrying citizens..........Its a bad idea.
S197Shelby
12-05-10, 07:58
As has been expressed several times on this thread.
As a LEO I can tell you its a bad idea. No matter what badge or ID you have you are getting treated the same. You are gonna get treated as a suspect. You are gonna get handcuffed. And you are gonna get detained until I can ID you and why you were there. Just because you have a license to carry and just because you were defending yourself doesn't mean that a homicide hasn't been committed. Expect to be questioned and expect to be read your rights. I would rather make the mistake of questioning an innocent man than the bigger mistake of letting a murder suspect go because he showed me a badge, ID and fed me some story of how he was not the aggressor.
Oh and there are the people that will think the badge affords them some sort of police power. Trust me. Lots of squirrels out there. Every LEO will tell you a story of being on scene and having someone walk up to you saying "Hey I'm off-duty Sears Department Store security. Do you guys need any help?" Those guys scare me more than DMI.
The badges are stupid. Can someone close this thread, now?
Bulldog7972
12-05-10, 09:33
FFS.
.
Forgive. I had a bad night last night and the mind is a little foggy right now. What does FFS mean?
Forgive. I had a bad night last night and the mind is a little foggy right now. What does FFS mean?
Combined with the quote he is referring to, it is: for ****s sake, synonymous with give me a ****ing break.
As a career Police Officer a CCW "Badge" is not going to cut it. I'm going to want to see a certification card with your picture on it. Same with an off duty Police Officer I don't recognize. And you better damn sight do exactly do what I tell you as soon as I do or you are going to have problems. If I tell you to drop that high dollar custom piece of your and you decide to put it down gently to keep from scatching it, you WILL end up regretting it. Believe me that I can justify doing what I feel is necessary if you do not comply and that "Badge" just shouts wanna-be.
Great.
I guess every profession has its outliers that make the rest look unfairly questionable.
"Hey I'm off-duty Sears Department Store security. Do you guys need any help?" Those guys scare me more than DMI.
why do they scare you, and whats DMI?
GLOCKMASTER
12-05-10, 11:04
This thread has run it's course.
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