View Full Version : Air Travel Myths
The myths are listed below. Good detail about them is at the link.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/254351/eight-air-security-myths-john-c-wohlstetter
John C. Wohlstetter
Eight Air-Security Myths
Why the TSA’s new policies won’t make us safer.
1. The fact that there have been no attacks since 9/11 vindicates TSA.
2. The Christmas Bomber’s near-success requires scans.
3. Each method terrorists use requires a targeted response.
4. The U.S.’s air-travel volume precludes TSA from using Israel’s methods.
5. Passengers know what the new procedures entail, and if they don’t want to fly, they can just as easily take some other form of transportation.
6. If we fail to search children and grandmothers, terrorists will simply enlist them in their plots.
7. Terrorists don’t fit any profile; watching out for Muslims does not work, because Johnny and Jane Jihad might look like us.
8. Americans won’t tolerate profiling.
I agree that all are false except number 7.
To think that all terrorists look like some guy from the middle east is false.
I think his point is that most of them do, so if middle easterners and Africans are screened more carefully we will catch most (not all) of the terrorist.
Or put another way, there are demographics which are far less likely (elderly white women?) to be recruited terrorists, so efforts spent screening them might be better spent on others.
I agree that all are false except number 7.
To think that all terrorists look like some guy from the middle east is false.
true middle east or somalia :)
chances are most will look like they are from these countries they are not white females or white children yeah sure someone will jump on and call me racist but its fact so far ! and most likely will stay fact
CaptainDooley
12-03-10, 12:53
Best paragraph of the article:
The bottom line is that Israel’s methods work. Instead of having ill-trained TSA agents search for bad things, have well-trained agents search for bad people. Profile by behavior and circumstance (cash ticket, one-way trip, etc.), and leave most of us alone. Compile accurate no-fly lists. Heed credible warnings. Ignore political correctness.
It's called common sense...
CaptainDooley
12-03-10, 12:54
I agree that all are false except number 7.
To think that all terrorists look like some guy from the middle east is false.
It wasn't written as well as it could have been, but his point was that traditional "racial profiling" won't work, but behavioral profiling does.
true middle east or somalia :)
chances are most will look like they are from these countries they are not white females or white children yeah sure someone will jump on and call me racist but its fact so far ! and most likely will stay fact
I don't know about that - 5 year old white boys traveling both parents to Grandma's house for Christmas might have a tactical nuke hidden right behind their scrotum, so we need a government goon pervert to give everything a squeeze just to be sure. ;)
I don't know about that - 5 year old white boys traveling both parents to Grandma's house for Christmas might have a tactical nuke hidden right behind their scrotum, so we need a government goon pervert to give everything a squeeze just to be sure. ;)
sadly that is the case !!!!
my mom got strip searched ?
she is almost 80 was down visiting the grand kids ! and my dad is a retired UAL pilot and she was traveling on a employee pass !
she said look my husband is retired I am on a pass this is ridiculous they said well we cant profile and we treat everyone the same its just your turn !
I agree that all are false except number 7.
To think that all terrorists look like some guy from the middle east is false.
That really isn't what they are suggesting.
True, we cannot identify all Muslims by looking at them. But another form of profiling does work: behavioral profiling. Johnny and Jane are no better at eluding expert scrutiny than are Abdul and Aisha.
Guess I read it wrong then. I have no problem with profiling, as long as we are using the right kind.
People should be profiled based on actions not background or color.
The_War_Wagon
12-03-10, 19:18
Myth #9 - airline seats are roomier and more comfortable, & flight is more enjoyable, than driving my Mercury Grand Marquis to Houston and back.
FALSE - did it back in July, and thoroughly enjoyed the drive. Got to see a tornado in TX and LA on the way back, and no gummint agents gave me handjobs during the trip! :D
Profiling for intent is hard - profiling for ability is something that is completely justifiable and needs to be implemented right fricking now. Screening 4 year olds and 80 year olds the same way a military aged male is simply stupid.
I still hate being stationed in Hawaii for this reason - I don't have an option to avoid these retards. Last time I had to deal with the TSA out of here, they successfully stole SL3 components from our issue weapons on our way INTO Afghanistan.
Off topic but related to #4...
While going through the first check point to get to my terminal, I was was questioned about my day by a TSA agent while I waited in line for my i.d. and boarding pass to be checked. If it wasn't an obvious random security measure then I don't know what it was. The problem with it was the TSA agent was a ****ing weirdo attempting to make small talk. Instead of making it possible to detect suspicious behavior, this creep made everyone feel awkward and shy away from him. There must have been a dozen would be terrorists fit for further inspection in line before he left us alone.
Guess I read it wrong then. I have no problem with profiling, as long as we are using the right kind.
People should be profiled based on actions not background or color.
You have to actually go to the link for the explanation. But I disagree with your statement, background and color are perfectly acceptable categories to profile by. People just need to understand that fitting a profile isn't the same as being guilty.
I get profiled all the time. If I'm going to some of my friends homes who live downtown at night, being a white guy in that neighborhood I fit the profile of a drug buyer. I get pulled over sometimes as a result. And here is what happens, they find out I don't have any arrests, there are no drugs or paraphernalia in open view and I have a plausible explanation for what I'm doing. So I am soon on my way, no need to call Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton to save me from the evil profiles.
Profiling is nothing more than recognizing common factors that "may" identify a criminal. Pretending they don't exist, especially for the sake of promoting diversity, is an exercise in ignorance. But that is exactly what we are doing right now. That said, people need to remember that a criminal won't ALWAYS fit the profile. Sometimes the drug buyers downtown late at night aren't white.
:laugh:
How can we NOT profile based on look or color?
I believe that all of the successful terrorist attacks on the US since the McVeigh thing were all young arab muslim males, black hair, dark complexion, arab origin, had been to or were from one of the bad boy countries (Yemen, Saudi, etc. you know the list).
So why not give those people extra scrutiny? It is idiotic and highly offensive to strip search an 80 year old white lady.
Sidenote: In fact, even at the risk of someone misinterpreting it, let me say that government arrogance, incompetence, and oppressive conduct (murderous conduct at least in the case of Lon Horiuchi if not others) is what led to the McVeigh bombing.
Sidenote: In fact, even at the risk of someone misinterpreting it, let me say that government arrogance, incompetence, and oppressive conduct (murderous conduct at least in the case of Lon Horiuchi if not others) is what led to the McVeigh bombing.
I had to do a google search to find out who Lon Horiuchi was. Very interesting info. Thanks.
PanAm 103 refutes #6.
Also the Attack In Russia a few years ago was also carried out by folks outside the usual profile.
PanAm 103 refutes #6.
Also the Attack In Russia a few years ago was also carried out by folks outside the usual profile.
Beslan?
Chechen muslims are outside the profile?
Holy crap it's worse than I thought!
Beslan?
Chechen muslims are outside the profile?
Holy crap it's worse than I thought!
This thread is about flying, I thought it was obvious I was talking about the plane bombing by two women. Guess not.
This thread is about flying, I thought it was obvious I was talking about the plane bombing by two women. Guess not.
Were they Chechens?
ETA: Apparently they were.
Were they Chechens?
ETA: Apparently they were.
You are confusing 6 with 7. 6 makes no reference to ethnicity:
6: If we fail to search children and grandmothers, terrorists will simply enlist them in their plots.
It implies terrorists will use folks outside the normal age/gender/etc profile to carry bombs on board planes.
I think a LOT of people here are confusing the use of a profile as a "likely indicator" of potential risk individuals with the use of a profile as a "sole indicator" of potential risk individuals.
And sure you could use profiling as your only indicator of potential risk individuals, but that would be as stupid as not using a profile at all. There is an intelligent middle ground.
You are confusing 6 with 7. 6 makes no reference to ethnicity:
6: If we fail to search children and grandmothers, terrorists will simply enlist them in their plots.
It implies terrorists will use folks outside the normal age/gender/etc profile to carry bombs on board planes.
Chechens are caucasians.
You guys are getting too hung up on defining profiling.
Here in America, we think that means looking for brown guys with beards.
In Israel, brown guys with beards is pretty much everybody - yet they manage to profile successfully. It is more based on actions, body language, and external factors (type of ticket, etc) than anything else.
You guys are getting too hung up on defining profiling.
Here in America, we think that means looking for brown guys with beards.
In Israel, brown guys with beards is pretty much everybody - yet they manage to profile successfully. It is more based on actions, body language, and external factors (type of ticket, etc) than anything else.
very true and we have the advantage also of most terrorists fit a certain look which would help that along with the others make it even easier over here !
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