View Full Version : Magazines
I haven't seen a thread like this so I was mostly just curious after some recent pondering/soul searching I guess you'd say. I have aquired several different types of mags and keep a few of each for training/testing in my own kit. Why did you choose your Mags for your M4, with so many choices why do you shoot for recreation or depend your life on the magazines you have?
A friends advice?
Drinking the kool-aid?
Real life experiences?
It seems to me that before Pmags there weren't alot of good alternatives to USGI issue and although they had there own set of problems that was about your only choice. Well now we have Brownells, Pmags, Lancers, Tango Downs, Improved followers for USGI, and many more. I have even managed to pick up a few of the new USGI tan follower mags and as far as I've shot them they seem to be as reliable as Pmags. So I guess I'm just interested in others thoughts and observations from both civvy, .mil, LEO, and anyone else with thoughts on this subject.
I guess something else I'm curious about is are you a slave to one type or do you use whatever works and try new things as they come out?
I know some people are like this with guns and other things "this is the only (insert item here) I've ever used why should I try something else".
.
I have about 5 or 6 of the 30-round P-Mags that I play with.
I stash and mostly use USGI Mags. Specifically, NHMTG and Okay (same as NHMTG) and I have about 80 of them.
I have had problems with 20-round P-Mags consistently holding my bolt open. No big deal because I only use 20-rounders on the bench but I wouldn't count on them.
I have never had any problems with 30-Round P-Mags but I have read where others have had problems with them not dropping free. Never heard of a healthy USGI not dropping free. Figured if I'm going to stash mags, I ought to stash ones that will work in everybody's gun.
I like the USGI's because they can be rebuilt (springs & followers readily available), work in any gun, they slide in/out of pouches easier, and they are about 1/2 the price of P-Mags (so I can get twice as many).
After I get a few other things "stashed" I will accumulate 30-round P-Mags. Like I said, they are good but I doubt I'll get more than 25-30. Just haven't seen a reason to abandon USGI's and go all out on P-Mags.
BTW-I think the world of Magpul and believe they are a class act.
But maybe it's just me....
.
kaltesherz
12-08-10, 23:13
The main problem I have with USGI mags is that while it's easy to upgrade the followers / springs, their bodies are only good for so long. I have had a lot of experience with them in the military and the vast majority of jams / malfunctions we experienced were with issue mags (lube solved the others). I still run USGI mags for range and training but keep Pmags for social occasions. Pmags have true anti-tilt followers and good springs but their main allure to me is the durability of their bodies. They may be twice the cost of USGI, but they'll last far longer. And if you manage to get a Pmag to kick the bucket, just email Magpul and they'll replace it.
I tried to rebuild USGI mags with magpul followers and CS springs and they ran ok. I dropped them loaded on their heads and stepped on them in training and tried to re-bend the feed lips. I realized that it was a bad idea to bend and re-bend metal that was fatigued and they were never "as good as new". I was being a cheap ass with gear I used on duty and finally had a moment of clarity..
I have used the lancers with good affect as well as magpul. I carry the magpul now because I have never had a bad experience with them except for seeing one stuck in friends older POF lower.
When my mag(s) becomes unreliable I get a brand new one and render the old one unusable so another cheap ass like me does not use it on duty like I did and end up in a bad situation.
YMMV,
JD
HawaiianM4
12-09-10, 00:01
I have use the USGI and the PMAG. Both work very well, but I think PMAG has the lead now with indestructable bodies, round count windows and better followers. I have tried to rehab USGI mags with new springs and followers but dont think it is worth the effort. I think I am better off buying new PMAG. I would recommend checking mags before purchasing, because I bought a 30 mag with a 10 round limit pin put in. Still need to drill that out.
Dionysusigma
12-09-10, 01:04
Current mag count is:
5 black 30rd windowed PMags
4 foliage green 30rd windowed PMags
4 FDE 30rd windowed PMags (not used yet)
1 foliage green 20rd PMag
1 C Products gray 30rd (1 failed of same)
1 Lancer L5
So far, zero issues that can be attributed directly to the above, save for the one C Products mag that popped the top rear weld, rendering it unusable. An indirect issue is that my bolt catches are a bit stiff (they're still pretty new), so none of the above will lock the bolt back 100% of the time, but zero issues other than that.
I try to test new things all the time, but the PMags have earned the most trust for me. They will wear out eventually, and if I haven't found something that either makes me tingle more (or find something on sale) I'll buy more.
GermanSynergy
12-09-10, 03:44
Been running PMAGs exclusively since late 2007 for my ARs. They work, are inexpensive, and have proven to be pretty durable.
Bobert0989
12-09-10, 04:16
I have a few USGI mags w/ Magpul Followers, and I don't guess I'd mind to "fall-back" to them if needed, but keep 30-round PMAGs (non-windowed, for me) readily stocked... I like that I can keep them fully-loaded with virtually no risk of damaging the mag itself, whereas the feed lips on an aluminum USGI would tend to weaken/bend over time if stored with full capacity.
For the record, I had the same issues with the 20-round PMAGs not always holding the bolt open on empty, but haven't had the issue with the 30's. I have also played around with a Thermold, and haven't had any issues out of it, but have less than 150 rounds through it so far, so cannot give it a nod in either direction, really. It just seems a little bulkier than the Magpuls, ergos are similar, but more pronounced...
Anyone honestly USED a Beta Mag (100 round drum)? How do they hold up to normal wear'n'tear?
Now let me Just clarify before someone takes any of this the wrong way.
I am not bashing any one particular brand or type I drink the koolaid and its tasty.
But I like the idea that USGI will fit any weapon system that takes AR mags where as the pmags may not.
Just out of curiosity has anyone else had a chance to try the militarys new mags? Same aluminum body but improved spring strength and a new true anti tilt follower.
Another happy PMag camper here, I have 9 of them. Reason I use 'em? Got 5 free with my rifle for one, but also because they have a great reputation and are fairly priced. Good value.
If the new USGI mags have the yellow bullet shape follower, yes I've used some. Unfortunately, I can't give an adequate review because the few we had, had been dropped on the deck a few hundred times over the last couple weeks during reload drills.
At the range on Friday during live fire, I grabbed a couple that were still in good shape and they ran fine. Small sampling so take it for what it's worth.
I still prefer the USGI mags and have a separate stash for training use only. I have about 50 or so on hand. I order ones with the Magpul followers. Still haven't completely warmed up 100% to my 30rd PMAGs I'm running. My 20rd PMAGS have the same failure to lock issue stated by others, but they see only bench use anyway.
The_War_Wagon
12-09-10, 09:13
A little of column B, and a LOT of column C!
Having started in the AR craze in 1991, I'd either seen OR used, EVERY crappy aluminum mag out there, and a couple of Orlites as well.
The PMag was to AR mags, what an Enzo Ferrari is to an REO Speedwagon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REO_Speed_Wagon) (NOT the band!!!). If I didn't have a couple of rifles with tight magwells, I'd dump ALL my aluminum mags for 'em!
[QUOTE=WC 2-3;839861]If the new USGI mags have the yellow bullet shape follower, yes I've used some.
the ones I'm talking about actually have a tan almost brown follower, I'll see if I can't take some pictures later and post them.
Just out of curiosity has anyone else had a chance to try the militarys new mags? Same aluminum body but improved spring strength and a new true anti tilt follower.
Yeah, we were torture-testing an optic device, and the mags we had were the new ones. We were using the amount required for a USMC standard combat upload: 7 for each gun. We fired at least 1500 rounds through each gun.
-Still gotta dump to 28 rounds, so no change there. We were required to stuff them with 30 rounds for test purposes, so while I was opening the bolt to gas up the gun, the silverbacks were taking 30 sec to slap, cram, and pound theirs in on a closed bolt. I was amused at the live-action of the definition of the word "insanity."
-We had some feed problems, but they were specific to one gun that turned out to be both undergassed and in posession of a wonky-though-functional FCG, so I don't attribute the failures-to-extract and -eject to the mags, nor the ejector or extractor. Nor to lube, as I lubed it with my own Slip; the other guns were lubed with GI CLP....so they were lubed more often. Swapped the BCG and FCG, ran fine after that. No other problems.
-The tan follower, if still in the mag well and viewed from above and behind from an open bolt and open ejection port cover, can make one think that there are still rounds in the mag. The color is just close enough to a dull-brass sort of tone that you have to be deliberate in a visual chamber-check.
-The follower hump is on the opposite side, so the rounds in a mag filled to 28 or 30 will index from the left instead of the right.
As for that last, it's no different from the Tango down mags, which are damned nice. I've been party to some folks that immediately started squalling about how mixing old/new mags, with rounds indexing from opposite sides will cause problems with press-checks, and perhaps even bring back a new strain of smallpox. Individuals such as that are generally unfettered by anything resembling a functioning cerebral cortex, or simply love trite simpleton drama for it's own sake.
The new mags seem to work okay. I'm heading to Crane next week to do a different version of the same test, using the same mags, so we'll see how that bears out.
thanks JSantoro I havent been able to find anyone who has used these pretty extensively, I look forward to hearing about your next test with them.
Nor have I found really anything about the new mags anywhere on the net. Goodle-fu is weak at times
I have a friend that is 5th group out of Fort Campbell, KY that is pretty impressed with them for a milspec mag he usually runs pmags but has since switched to the new mags because of weapon fit issues with guns in there armory.
Interesting input so far from everyone.
HawaiianM4
01-02-11, 01:06
Yesterday, I drilled out the pin that had been put into a PMAG to limit the 30-round mag to 10-rounds. (when I bought it there was nothing to tell me it was a 10-round limit) Used a dremel tool that end up pushin the pin thru the side. PMAG works fine now.
Nary an issue with PMAGs, good aluminum mags with Magpul followers, TD ARC mags, and Lancer L5s.
I started with GI mags...then slowly transitioned to PMAGs...
My last deployment I used PMAGs exclusively...they were personally owned, and already had hundreds of rounds through them, versus the GI mags that have been kicked around an armory for 20+ years...
P mags are my favorites. But recently they went with a New ( Foliage green ) follower. This new fowler doesn't come up as high as the old one and may prevent locking open on the last round.
If you are looking for a "Metal" magazine. Brownells makes probably the best.
RogerinTPA
01-02-11, 08:33
For polymer, 100 1st Gen Pmags (windowed/nonwindowed), 5 Lancers. USGI aluminum: 40 NHMTG, 40 DSG, 40 D&H Mags(bravocompanyusa), all with Magpul followers. All are vary durable, but they will fail at some point, so don't get emotionally attached to them. Mark and number them so you can ID them during range outings & carbine classes. The minute you start having mag related issues, separate it from the rest, and use them for training mags for malfunction drills or shit can them. I put a big red X on them.
I only have 30 round window-less PMAGS. They have fed 100% for me and have no problems dropping free.
I did manage to chip the locking wedge on one when I dropped it fully loaded. Sometimes it will feed too deeply into the mag well so I use it for range use only and have it clearly marked as such.
I chose them based on their reputation here on M4C.net and also in SWAT magazine. So far I am pleased with them based on reputation, performance in my limited experience, price and availability. I live near a Quantico Tactical Supply and they have them in spades. Until they let me down, I don't have any intention to try anything else as of yet.
I forgot to mention that I'm only using them for defense, range use and training. At this time I do not participate in competitive shooting.
I've been pleased with the performance of my Colt marked mags, ten 20 rd. & two 30 rd., for years. They were lightly used over the years in several Colt ARs, and more heavily in the Stag Model 1 I got several months ago. My local dealer kept raving about Pmags so much that I finally tried two, a 20 rd. & a 30 rd. window. The 30 rd. performs perfectly, but the 20 has the same failure to hold open issue that has been mentioned. MagPul graciously replaced the 20 rd. mag with another that does the same thing! I'm interested to see how the Pmags perform in the Spikes M4 I'm going to have soon (have the complete lower & now awaiting the complete upper). After that I'm going to get a Lancer 5 rd. for coyote hunting- oh boy! :) WB
I'm admittedly a noob to AR's but yesterday at the range, one of my 3 USGI mags kept making my MT6400c fail to feed and jam. When i took it out and put a PMAG in it, it was flawless. I just threw the mag away after trying it a few more times.
I've got about 40 P-Mags. I was checking all for function and found about 35 of them that would not hold bolt open. I was playing with a heavier buffer and thought this was the issue. Was P-Mags. Look on the back of the mags around the areas where the U shape cut out is and you may find some over molding left and this area not smooth or flat around the cut out. I took a file and with about 3 or 4 strokes flattened out this area and now all my mags work just fine. Looks like a mould issue when they were molded. Hope this helps.
I have 25 PMAGS and 30 USGI mags w/Magpul springs and followers. I would like to try out some Lancer magazines and also Troy Ind. new magazines.
Has anyone tried the HK Mags? They are quite expensive, more than PMags. I would like to know if they are worth the money.
RogerinTPA
01-02-11, 20:28
Has anyone tried the HK Mags? They are quite expensive, more than PMags. I would like to know if they are worth the money.
A lot of folks have. Most report the following: Too heavy, they rust, the feed lips dent too easily, and cost way too much, compared to what is available (Pmags, quality USGI, Lancers). There are a few who swear by them, but most who have used them a lot or in combat, don't.
Wolf Spyder
01-02-11, 20:36
I started with 6 USGI mags about 4 years ago. I have since traded them away and now I only have P-mags. I have somewhere around 40 non-windowed P-mags, and I am aways adding more to the stock pile. I have never had an issue with any of them up to this point.
The only problem I've found with P-Mags is...I don't have enough of them. :sad:
Bobert0989
01-03-11, 01:29
Any dates as to when the Troy Mags will be readily available? Their site says "Coming Soon"... I'd like to try them out as well.
BTW, anyone reading this thinking "Man, my USGI mags are crap, I should just throw them away and buy PMAG's..." Please PM me for shipping info and I will "dispose" of them for you... ;)
~Bobby
I've been using PMags with great success and no issues as others in this thread have been saying.
Well worth the price for how well they work and how long they last in my opinion, and to just skip some of the headaches that USGI mags can give you.
I am very interested to try out some EMags, as they look to be the best solution for a magazine that will more easily accommodate pouches, gear, and other non-AR guns. Maybe when the price on them drops down a little I'll pick a few up and see if they're worth transitioning to.
I've been using P-Mags since 2007, pretty much exclusively till a few months ago. I've got around 70 between the few windowed, and all colors. I've put back about 70 GI's, all with Magpul followers. There's a set of 12 used Colt 20's and about 8 Pmag 20's. About 3 months ago I started using Tango Downs and have about 10 so far. I have a habit of ordering 4 or 5 mags everytime I order anything from anyone AR related. Kind of like my habit of buying a brick of .22 every time I go to Wallyworld.:cool:
I use Pmags and Lancers for everything, and they work great.
HawaiianM4
01-18-11, 01:57
Bought two more 30 round windowed PMAGs over the weekend. Also bought a CMMG 22 conversion kit for the AR. The CMMG 22 conversion kit appears to be well made. Will run it through the paces at the range as soon as possible.
I prefer Lancers but have more Pmags and trust both. I do not trust 20 round Pmags. I have had too many issues with them. They are now only for range sessions.
I have 15 non-windowed pmags and growing for my AR, and a box full of Hks, USGI, Pmags, randoms at work. I don't mix them.
i have 3 C products mags that collectively have about 6k rounds through them, they always function properly.
the only reason i prefer p mags is my mag well is pretty loose and they fit the best. the alum. and steel mags i generaly have to put forward pressur on them or they dont feed right, not a mag problem but a magwell problem.
i have spoke to Mega about this and they say its within spec:confused:
SomeOtherGuy
01-18-11, 22:23
Mega's machining is usually just about perfect.... have you tried those mags in another rifle to see if the problem could be the mags?
In my personal experience C-Products quality control is very poor and many of the CP mags I've tried didn't feed properly even once right from new. Some others have worked fairly well. They just don't seem to have good dimensional control, and their aluminum mags also seem to have roughness issues inside the box.
LMT Shooter
01-19-11, 00:27
I have an LMT and a DPMS. The LMT doesn't always drop free my P-Mags, all my mags are numbered and it is only certain ones. All drop free from my DPMS. USGI mags have always been good to me, no problems of any kind.
Hello,
Genuine Factory COLT 20 & 30 Rnd. mags are what I use & buy, and I actually like the 20s the best.
Hello,
Genuine Factory COLT 20 & 30 Rnd. mags are what I use & buy, and I actually like the 20s the best.
Does Colt make magazines?
Mega's machining is usually just about perfect.... have you tried those mags in another rifle to see if the problem could be the mags?
In my personal experience C-Products quality control is very poor and many of the CP mags I've tried didn't feed properly even once right from new. Some others have worked fairly well. They just don't seem to have good dimensional control, and their aluminum mags also seem to have roughness issues inside the box.
yeah we put the exact same mags in Sun Devil and RRA lowers and they fit & function alot better.
so i generaly use my pmags, i have 80 of them so i should be set their for a while:D
thats good to know about C product QC issues, i may just get rid of them.
Does Colt make magazines?
No, their made by OKay but their also made to COLT Spec's and since that involves a higher level of quality control, I'll pay the extra coupla bucs for them vs. OKay branded 33710 mags. Which would be my second choice for mags.
Edited to add: Maybe just say COLT Factory mags instead? By the genuine part, I simply meant Genuine COLT Product.
SomeOtherGuy
01-19-11, 08:47
yeah we put the exact same mags in Sun Devil and RRA lowers and they fit & function alot better.
That would seem like a good test, except that I would generally expect more dimensional accuracy from Mega than from Sun Devil or RRA (although both of those are typically fine). Who knows, probably not worth more thought.
thats good to know about C product QC issues, i may just get rid of them.
Any problems would be readily apparent. If they're working now, I would keep using them until they stop working. Some of their mags are fine, it's just that you can't expect 99%+ of them to be fine the way you can with some makers.
I've been looking at different magazines at Gun Shows and shops for a year or so and writing down CAGE #'s. I only write the number down if the magazine is sealed in plastic or I can verify that it is all original to prevent getting info from magazines that have had the floorplates changed.
Like Bob Reed wrote, the CAGE #'s I've found is the 33710. I've also found the 33710 on Okay and NHMTG. But from what I've seen and read, NHMTG is the current maker. I think the Okay name is "extinct".
Closely examining new Colt mags and new NHMTG mags, I do not see any differences. I have also seen new Colt mags as low as $12 each, same price that NHMTG's are selling. I wouldn't think NHMTG could do anything "special" to the Colt mag and then it sells for the same price as an NHMTG. Other than their stampings, from what I've noticed current NHMTG and Colt mags are equivalent.
.
.
Like Bob Reed wrote, the CAGE #'s I've found is the 33710. I've also found the 33710 on Okay and NHMTG. But from what I've seen and read, NHMTG is the current maker. I think the Okay name is "extinct".
Hello,
On the COLT Factory 20s about 1/4" ahead of the R.H. feed lip and about 1/4" down on the interior wall their marked OKay.
BTW: It helps to brush a drop of oil over the area to see the Okay rollmark, but it's there and I just checked some made from 2003 - 2010 and they all have the OKay rollmark on the interior wall mentioned above.
RogerinTPA
01-19-11, 21:49
Okay mags are the military contract side of the house, which are also the Colt mags with Colt floor plates. Okays are still being sold on the market. NHMTG is the civilian side of the house for civilian consumption. Essentially the same mags, different floor plates.
ARiflesFury556
01-19-11, 22:07
PMAGS all the way. earlier versions had slight issues with feed lip spread. I know people though who threw out those dust covers and have not had one issue since. They dont rattle around when empty like most USGI mags do, There easy to disassemble, come in a different varieties/colors, you don't have to down-load them to 29 to be able to load it on a closed chamber, and do fit most AR's. If it doesn't fit your gun you can always buy the "Emags" which are PMAGS with out the textured grip and can feed more European 5.56 assault rifles as well. I don't mind them costing more. Because I get what I pay for. People on here always seem to have the most expensive uppers and lowers (LMT, Noveske, Colt) so why not have the upper price range mags that are reliable and function great? just my 0.02$
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.