View Full Version : FULL - Vickers Tactical Home Defense Class Nov 4-6, 2011 Moyock, NC.
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Vickers Tactical Home Defense Class Nov 4-6, 2011 Moyock, NC.
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Vickers Tactical
www.vickerstactical.com
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Larry Vickers is a decorated US Army Special Forces veteran and national pistol champion. Mr. Vickers has nearly two decades of special operations experience (1 SFOD-Delta), much of which was spent as his units Primary Firearms Instructor. In addition to his special operations accomplishments, his competitive shooting has yielded a 10th and 9th place finish in the 1993 and 1994 USPSA Limited Nationals as well as a 1st place finish in CDP class at the 2001 IDPA Mid-Winter Nationals at Smith & Wesson. Mr. Vickers is a founding member of IDPA. In addition to being a highly experienced operator and national pistol champion, Mr. Vickers is also one of the premier 1911 pistolsmiths in the country and his work has been featured in several firearms publications and on the cover of American Handgunner. In addition to all this, Mr. Vickers has served as a consultant and technical expert to the firearms industry. Mr. Vickers is featured on two new firearms, tactics, and accessories focused T.V. shows called Tactical Impact and Tactical Arms.
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Grey Group Training:
www.greygrouptraining.com
Vickers Tactical Home Defense Class Nov 4-6, 2011 Moyock, NC.
The Vickers Tactical 3-Day Home Defense class focuses on the most important and potentially dangerous scenario anyone could face defense of your own home, family, or place of business. The class will strongly emphasize mastering the basics that will immediately apply to a wide range of different scenarios. Each student will leave this class with training points and skill building exercises they can use to develop a well thought out plan to actively defend their own home and protect their family in the case of a home invasion and/or robbery attempt. Topics covered will include; weapons manipulation, movement & approaches, hallways and T intersections, room entry and domination, family member rescues, safe room set-up and defense, target discrimination, low light encounters, surgical shooting exercises, etc. If you plan to use a weapon to defend your home attending this class is a must.
Instructor: Larry Vickers
Class dates: Nov 4-6, 2011
Cost: $900
Location: U.S. Training Center - Moyock, NC.
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U.S. Training Center
www.ustraining.com
Ranges:
http://www.ustraining.com/new/Moyock/ranges_1.asp
Lodging: Black Bear Inn
http://www.ustraining.com/new/Moyock/lodging.asp
Weapon & Gear Class Requirements:
Carbine:
- Serviceable duty grade carbine of minimum 5.45 / 5.56 caliber
- Serviceable sling (tactical type preferred.)
- Minimum of 5 serviceable carbine magazines
- Carbine mounted white light
- Optics (Optional, but highly suggested)
- Minimum 1 carbine magazine pouch - or method to carry at least two spares magazine(s)
Handgun:
- Serviceable duty grade handgun of at least 9mm Para caliber
- Minimum of 5 serviceable pistol magazines
- Serviceable holster
- Minimum 2 pistol magazine pouches
- Handgun mounted white light (Optional)
- Visible lasers (Optional)
MISC:
- Hand held white light
- Eye and ear protection (electronic hearing protection is preferred)
- Level 3A soft armor w/hard plates optional.
- Suitable range wear depending on the season
- Weapon cleaning & lubrication supplies
- Good attitude
Zeroed Weapons: 100-yard carbine preferred, but others are acceptable if you have a good reason why and understand it. Know your handguns zero at various ranges.
Ammo Requirements:
- 600 rounds of handgun
- 300 rounds of carbine
- 300 rounds of frangible carbine ammo
***This class is only open to highly vetted qualified individuals. Please be prepared to submit a complete training resume and background check during registration. If you have any questions about your qualifications to attend this class please contact me directly.***
If you are interested in attending this class please use this link to the Grey Group Training sign-up page:
http://stores.greygrouptraining.com/-strse-3658/LAV-HOME-DEFENSE/Detail.bok
If you have any additional questions please feel free to contact me;
training@greygrouptraining.com
Is it too early to start getting excited for this class? :cool:
SeriousStudent
12-15-10, 20:24
Oh wow. Carbine and pistol. This will be good.
I'm on the fence. This would be a class of a lifetime. Drive time is about 13 hours, really really really don't want to have to fly with guns plus I would have to arrange a rental etc...
AHHHHH what does one do?
I'm flying in from oregon. Quit complaining! :p
This one is probably more up my alley than the Mil/LE class at this same place.
I'll be there. One way or another...
I willl be attending as well. Looking forward to it.
Went through this class last year and should be down for this one as well.
Good learning opportunity for folks wanting to know how to clear rooms. Be warned though! The Blackwater shoot houses are some of the hardest on the planet. :help:
C4
I know 4-5 more folks who are signed up for this class. Is it november yet?!:p
Now the question, is there ANY frangible out there (I've heard there's some) that won't frag suppressors up. As I'd love to run suppressed with a carbine.
I just signed up. See you in November.
I know 4-5 more folks who are signed up for this class. Is it november yet?!:p
Now the question, is there ANY frangible out there (I've heard there's some) that won't frag suppressors up. As I'd love to run suppressed with a carbine.
About the only company I am willing to trust at this point is Federal.
Am going to get some pricing for some shortly.
C4
I just signed up. See you in November.
I have quite a few courses already but if anyone has info specific to this course to share let me know. Ie, items to include vs leave it at home.
Many Thanks and I look forward to it.
Here is the AAR from the last class: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58026
If you are planning on running an AR (chambered in 556), make sure to test the frange ammo in your gun PRIOR to coming.
Of course have your armor ready as well and be comfortable with it.
While there isn't a lot of low light in this class, weapon mounted lights are king.
This class focuses on the art of room clearing. So you will want to have the fundamentals down (specifically accuracy) as LAV will spend most of the time teaching tactics.
If you have any other questions, ask away.
C4
Here is the AAR from the last class: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58026
If you are planning on running an AR (chambered in 556), make sure to test the frange ammo in your gun PRIOR to coming.
Of course have your armor ready as well and be comfortable with it.
While there isn't a lot of low light in this class, weapon mounted lights are king.
This class focuses on the art of room clearing. So you will want to have the fundamentals down (specifically accuracy) as LAV will spend most of the time teaching tactics.
If you have any other questions, ask away.
C4
Thanks, That covered the biggy's. I have plenty of time and armor/plates will be another question. I'll reach out with more I'm sure. Thanks for the AAR as well. GTG.
About the only company I am willing to trust at this point is Federal.
Am going to get some pricing for some shortly.
C4
Grant, let us know if we can do a group buy on Frangible. And if so if we can get some samples to make sure it runs well through out guns/suppressors prior to class.
I'd really like to run suppressed IF possible. Thanks, much appreciated, and see you in 10 months.
Grant, let us know if we can do a group buy on Frangible. And if so if we can get some samples to make sure it runs well through out guns/suppressors prior to class.
I'd really like to run suppressed IF possible. Thanks, much appreciated, and see you in 10 months.
Already have an e-mail fired off. I am going to get some boxes of the BC223NT5A (http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/rifle/ballisticleanrht.aspx) and see how it does.
If it works in my 10.5 (suppressed) then it will most likely be GTG.
C4
30 cal slut
12-20-10, 09:07
:dance3:
Already have an e-mail fired off. I am going to get some boxes of the BC223NT5A (http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/rifle/ballisticleanrht.aspx) and see how it does.
If it works in my 10.5 (suppressed) then it will most likely be GTG.
C4
Awesome, let us know how it goes. If so I'm sure more than a few of us will be snagging some from you. My 11.5 + QDSS will thank you!
30 cal slut
12-20-10, 09:31
p.s. Grant pls put me down for frangible group buy if you're up to it ... stuff is rarer than hen's teeth in these parts.
p.s. Grant pls put me down for frangible group buy if you're up to it ... stuff is rarer than hen's teeth in these parts.
Will do. I will be getting a case of it soonest and will make my gun the test dummy. If I get no baffle strikes and is reliable, then I will order whatever you guys want.
C4
glock_forty5
12-27-10, 18:25
Signed up today! Looking forward to the class.
Now the waiting begins...
Will do. I will be getting a case of it soonest and will make my gun the test dummy. If I get no baffle strikes and is reliable, then I will order whatever you guys want.
C4
I have no exp with Frang thus far. I know of two brands available and may try it. If I can order with you that would be great. I do not have a can on any of my rifles though.
I have no exp with Frang thus far. I know of two brands available and may try it. If I can order with you that would be great. I do not have a can on any of my rifles though.
I have good experience with ICC, but am hearing that QC has dropped and suppressor users are getting baffle strikes. :nono:
Federal probably makes the best out there, but they are behind on delivery. I have a case of it coming for testing.
The good news is that we should see some well before the class.
C4
The good news is that we should see some well before the class.
Yayyyyyyyyyy!
NCPatrolAR
12-28-10, 11:10
Anyone using guns with Battle Comps installed might want to read the following:
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60646&highlight=frang&page=8
I recently ordered 1000 rounds of winchester 55gr frangible for $300 shipped. Check out sgammo.com . Easy fast transaction even with special shipping instructions. Ammo was used in about 10 different guns with now issues.
Just got a case of the Federal in. Apparently this stuff is as rare as Hens Teeth.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/FEDERAL/BC223NT5A.jpg
Heavy Metal
12-28-10, 13:51
Mark me down and put me on the frang group buy list.
I hope to eventually be of the level to attend these classes. As it is I look forward to the AAR and first hand accounts.
NCPatrolAR
12-28-10, 14:27
I hope to eventually be of the level to attend these classes. As it is I look forward to the AAR and first hand accounts.
Why dont you feel comfortable enough to take this one?
Why dont you feel comfortable enough to take this one?
While I have made great strides in the last year or so, I am still very much a novice shooter compared to most of you. I know my limitations and feel that I need more remedial training before I could consider an advanced class such as this one.
Who knows, by the time this class comes around I may be of a skill level appropriate for it, but right now I am not. For instance I still have a tendency to over-think target acquisition while shooting and when I do I start to snatch the trigger and send rounds out of the black.
I am sure Mr. Vickers would eat me alive. :sarcastic:
I hope to eventually be of the level to attend these classes. As it is I look forward to the AAR and first hand accounts.
Don't know if you read the one from this year's class or not: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58026
C4
Don't know if you read the one from this year's class or not: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58026
C4
Yes sir I did. And I found it very informative. It was also good to hear first hand accounts of some of the people that had been there. One thing I found very telling is how close everyone's gear was.
Suppressor guys:
http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=BX&prodID=BX22414&prodTitle=Barnes%205.56%20.224%2055%20gr%20M/LE%20RRLP%20Bullets%2050/box
Barnes RRLP will run all day through cans. It is premium rifle ammunition, not some eco-friendly powdered lead shit with performance as the back burner. It works against dudes as well, but we shoot steel with it as close as 5M (no shit) and over tens of thousands of rounds has proven perfectly safe. Many units use it ("white tip") in the military with no ill effects on steel, guns, or people shooting it.
Suppressor guys:
http://www.natchezss.com/brand.cfm?contentID=productDetail&brand=BX&prodID=BX22414&prodTitle=Barnes%205.56%20.224%2055%20gr%20M/LE%20RRLP%20Bullets%2050/box
Barnes RRLP will run all day through cans. It is premium rifle ammunition, not some eco-friendly powdered lead shit with performance as the back burner. It works against dudes as well, but we shoot steel with it as close as 5M (no shit) and over tens of thousands of rounds has proven perfectly safe. Many units use it ("white tip") in the military with no ill effects on steel, guns, or people shooting it.
Looks good. Do you know if anyone is loading these bullet?
C4
Yes sir I did. And I found it very informative. It was also good to hear first hand accounts of some of the people that had been there. One thing I found very telling is how close everyone's gear was.
Yes, VERY telling. Its like everyone had the same "light bulb" moment in regards to guns and gear.
C4
GLOCKMASTER
12-28-10, 16:18
Looks good. Do you know if anyone is loading these bullet?
C4
Silver State Armory (http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition-2-3.aspx)
(Hopefully I'll be able to "borrow" enough frang ammo from VA_Dinger)
:sarcastic:
Silver State Armory (http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition-2-3.aspx)
That was my guess as well.
Checked out there website and they are out of them.
C4
GLOCKMASTER
12-28-10, 18:30
That was my guess as well.
Checked out there website and they are out of them.
C4
Since they are a site sponsor it might be worth the effort to reach out to them.
Whoa, I go furniture shopping (don't ask) and come back and see a dozen replies. How about you guys in the know figure out the best ammo for suppressed guns and we just press our credit cards into the screen really hard and grant orders a ton of it prior to next November!
Grant, if you can try out the federal, and Barnes, etc, and let us know what works best that'd rock.
Thank you in advance on behalf of us new to kill houses.
While I have made great strides in the last year or so, I am still very much a novice shooter compared to most of you. I know my limitations and feel that I need more remedial training before I could consider an advanced class such as this one.
Who knows, by the time this class comes around I may be of a skill level appropriate for it, but right now I am not. For instance I still have a tendency to over-think target acquisition while shooting and when I do I start to snatch the trigger and send rounds out of the black.
I am sure Mr. Vickers would eat me alive. :sarcastic:
I have taken several classes as of late with TS and BW. I'm a civilian. I realize there will be those who have trained more, know more, and have done this same class before. I am going to learn. It is also a reasonable expectation that A. I conduct myself in an appropriate manner. B Show up with my equip squared away. C. have an open mind and be mindful of what limitations I may have.
That being said my participation will not have an adverse effect on anyone else. I also have 10 months to do A,B,C.
Qualifications? Between LAV, former instructors, and some others I know if I were not of an ability to participate they would tell me.
Whoa, I go furniture shopping (don't ask) and come back and see a dozen replies. How about you guys in the know figure out the best ammo for suppressed guns and we just press our credit cards into the screen really hard and grant orders a ton of it prior to next November!
Grant, if you can try out the federal, and Barnes, etc, and let us know what works best that'd rock.
Thank you in advance on behalf of us new to kill houses.
I will test out the Federal first. If I can get it cheap enough (and it runs), this is what I will most likely order.
C4
I recently ordered 1000 rounds of winchester 55gr frangible for $300 shipped. Check out sgammo.com . Easy fast transaction even with special shipping instructions. Ammo was used in about 10 different guns with now issues.
I just purchased 1000. I'll report in a week how it shoots in my DD.
I just purchased 1000. I'll report in a week how it shoots in my DD.
Most of the quality Frang (Federal, Winchester, etc) should cycle in the guns pretty well.
Where people run into issues is with SBR's. Where the REAL concern comes into play is when you are running a can. To many times there are baffle strikes so we want to try and rule this issue out.
C4
I will test out the Federal first. If I can get it cheap enough (and it runs), this is what I will most likely order.
C4
Good...gooooood...mwuahahahah.
Hank, here's my take on this. I was in the queue for last summer's class, and the spot opened up, and I turned it down for one crucial reason, that I felt I wasn't ready to attend a class this complex.
I personally feel that the people who show up to a class like this are a degree of student that are self aware of their skill levels. I've been to a few classes this year where I think to myself, "who are you and how did you get in this class?" That's not going to happen with this class, I know most of the folks attending, some from industry professionals, all the way to qualified novices. It's really not about experience of each shooter (though that's nice) but about the mindset to be SAFE.
I think it's fine to be fast and accurate, that all falls behind the goal of ending each day with no more holes then what we started with. Make no mistake, kill-house stuff is butt-pucker inducing, and Paul wouldn't let someone into the class if he had his doubts.
Do I think people may show up with gear in the wrong place? Sure. But I think part C allows for students to quickly identify why and how to fix it. This will be my 9th formal class, and I feel how I am as a pistol and carbine shooter is good enough to be in the MINDSET to learn what LAV is teaching. My goal isn't to be the fastest guy into a room or hallway, it's to do it right, at the pace LAV wants, and not "THAT GUY" in regards to safety.
Most of the quality Frang (Federal, Winchester, etc) should cycle in the guns pretty well.
Where people run into issues is with SBR's. Where the REAL concern comes into play is when you are running a can. To many times there are baffle strikes so we want to try and rule this issue out.
C4
Exactly, I can run my 12.5 with a blackout, but I pre-apologize to those who I deafen...or Grant pegs down an ammo that'll work in a suppressed SBR and all our ears will thank us for his effort.
I was able to put 9.7 boxes of the RRLP stuff through a 10.5 Colt/LMT today
200rds suppressed (1 full auto mag dump)
92rds unsuppressed (2 full auto mag dumps)
Can was a knights
Edit to add: No malfunctions, stoppages, nor breakages. Rifle had roughly 12k through it. Can had a unknown round count on it. I think it's pretty old since it was painted green. Don't know the last time someone in the military painted part of their kit green. It wasn't tan and green, nor black and green, nor black, tan, and green. Just green lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/C45P312/Firearms/photo2-3.jpg
Can was a knights
This pleases me...:cool:
Good...gooooood...mwuahahahah.
Hank, here's my take on this. I was in the queue for last summer's class, and the spot opened up, and I turned it down for one crucial reason, that I felt I wasn't ready to attend a class this complex.
I personally feel that the people who show up to a class like this are a degree of student that are self aware of their skill levels. I've been to a few classes this year where I think to myself, "who are you and how did you get in this class?" That's not going to happen with this class, I know most of the folks attending, some from industry professionals, all the way to qualified novices. It's really not about experience of each shooter (though that's nice) but about the mindset to be SAFE.
Ahhh, knowing what you don't know (or at least being self aware of your abilities). What a great thing huh? Keeps you out of trouble (or from being "that guy").
IMHO, shoot houses (no matter if you are doing defensive or offensive clearing) REALLY shows you where the skeletons live. Meaning that if you are not fundamentally sound in all aspects (accuracy, footwork, barricade work, switching hands, shooting with your non-dominant eye, malfunction clearing, Emergency/Tac Reloads, moving and shooting and the ability to make decisions on the fly) you will be eaten alive.
This is why I love this training above all others. It stresses you and makes you realize that you have to be good at EVERYTHING in order to survive.
The BW shoot houses are SO complex that they will frustrate and or confuse you at some point. There are room configurations that are just a lose lose situation and it makes you realize just how dangerous this type of stuff is.
Every time I go through them, I am again reminded that I suck and should think about selling my firearms. :)
I think it's fine to be fast and accurate, that all falls behind the goal of ending each day with no more holes then what we started with. Make no mistake, kill-house stuff is butt-pucker inducing, and Paul wouldn't let someone into the class if he had his doubts.
In a shoot house environment, no one will EVER have to tell you to shoot faster! You will do that automatically without even knowing it. The trick is to shoot slower and get good hits. What commonly happens is that you get into a room and are surprised by a target. You jerk the weapon up (without ever seeing your sights) and shoot as FAST as you can.
Finger straight on the weapon is mandatory at all times. Nothing else matters, but this. The shoot house will push your comfort level with loaded weapons and operating in close proximity to other people.
Do I think people may show up with gear in the wrong place? Sure. But I think part C allows for students to quickly identify why and how to fix it. This will be my 9th formal class, and I feel how I am as a pistol and carbine shooter is good enough to be in the MINDSET to learn what LAV is teaching. My goal isn't to be the fastest guy into a room or hallway, it's to do it right, at the pace LAV wants, and not "THAT GUY" in regards to safety.
At the last class, we really did not see "wrong" gear placement. The main reason is because you really don't need a bunch of kit to do a run through the house. Typically (unless you are shooting a gun with only 8rds in it), you will be ok with ONE mag and one in the gun. I typically had a spare reload shoved in a pants pocket (not even a mag pouch).
Suggestions for drills to do before the class:
Vickers 10/10/10 drill (Pistol)
Attempt to shoot above a 95 on it.
1-5 Drill (Carbine) @ 25yds
Attempt to shoot it under 15 seconds clean.
Box Drill at 10-12yds on multiple targets (3)
Barricade shooting @ 10-15yds
Work on footwork and keeping everything behind the barrier. Be comfortable with switching hands and shooting with your non-dominant eye
C4
I wasn't trying to be controversial and not support M4C sponsors, but frange is hard as shit to find, especially cheap. Just trying to help.
I wasn't trying to be controversial and not support M4C sponsors, but frange is hard as shit to find, especially cheap. Just trying to help.
I understand appreciate your post (as I wasn't really familiar with what Winchester offered in Frang).
C4
30 cal slut
01-03-11, 16:43
Can't wait to get razzed (again) by LAV for shooting a hostage (or two). :sarcastic:
Don't know if you read the one from this year's class or not: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58026
C4
I'm considering this class for the practical home defense it should provide. I've read through this forum and viewed the AAR from the previous and wonder when, in a HD situation, you would have time to put on a chest rig or armor plate? For those that attended, do you feel the layout/shoot house reflected a potential home invasion/defense scenario? After all, isn't that what this class is supposed to be?
Also, I read a post about BC's compatability issue with frang ammo. Does the same apply to the 1.5"s? What's a good substitute for the BC that can run frang? Thanks
I'm considering this class for the practical home defense it should provide. I've read through this forum and viewed the AAR from the previous and wonder when, in a HD situation, you would have time to put on a chest rig or armor plate? For those that attended, do you feel the layout/shoot house reflected a potential home invasion/defense scenario? After all, isn't that what this class is supposed to be?
Also, I read a post about BC's compatability issue with frang ammo. Does the same apply to the 1.5"s? What's a good substitute for the BC that can run frang? Thanks
Armor is worn in the class for the students protection.
Now for me personally, I do keep armor in my safe room (as an option).
The BW shoot house layout is much harder than anyones home. So if you can clear rooms (correctly) in their house, then you will be GTG in your home.
C4
Armor is worn in the class for the students protection.
Now for me personally, I do keep armor in my safe room (as an option).
The BW shoot house layout is much harder than anyones home. So if you can clear rooms (correctly) in their house, then you will be GTG in your home.
C4
Thanks. I'd like to talk with you about my qualifications and attendance of this class. What's the best way to get in touch?
Thanks. I'd like to talk with you about my qualifications and attendance of this class. What's the best way to get in touch?
You are welcome to call or e-mail with your questions. To be honest though, I am NOT in charge of deciding who get's in and who doesn't.
That is Dinger's job.
C4
I'd like to talk with you about my qualifications and attendance of this class. What's the best way to get in touch?
Feel free to email me;
training@greygrouptraining.com
Is this a class that they put on once a year? Semi-annually? Or more? And is it always in NC?
I would LOVE to go to this class, but I wouldn't have the funds after having to go out and buy all the stuff I would need for this class (no armor/frange/ect....poor college student) lol
Is there any other class that might be suitable along these lines that ya'll could recommend?
Is this a class that they put on once a year? Semi-annually? Or more? And is it always in NC?
I would LOVE to go to this class, but I wouldn't have the funds after having to go out and buy all the stuff I would need for this class (no armor/frange/ect....poor college student) lol
Is there any other class that might be suitable along these lines that ya'll could recommend?
This class has been (so far) taught at BW and has only been offered once a year.
Hackathorn usually does a HD a class in Marietta OH.
C4
GunSlinger
01-15-11, 23:06
guys, I just perused the Sportsman's guide shooters catalogue and spotted Winchester Frang at $.62 ea (200 for $124.97) item #A1A-161608
something to consider if you cant locate any.
....this class haunts my thoughts.
Grant's working on testing out frang for us guys who want to run cans in class.
Most frang is crap. But there's some good stuff out there. Group buy is most likely.
glock_forty5
01-23-11, 19:33
Grant's working on testing out frang for us guys who want to run cans in class.
Most frang is crap. But there's some good stuff out there. Group buy is most likely.
Myself and two others will be in on that buy.
Grant,
Could we pick up the ammo at BW or would it have to be shipped to me?
JT
Myself and two others will be in on that buy.
Grant,
Could we pick up the ammo at BW or would it have to be shipped to me?
JT
I think a lot of people would be in on that group buy. I'm sure Grant can have it shipped to one location so we're not all shipping it to and from. Hopefully grant finds some good stuff. ;)
How did the stuff run that BW had last year? Won't be running a can or sbr..............yet?
How did the stuff run that BW had last year? Won't be running a can or sbr..............yet?
I ran old ICC ammo and it was great. If you are not running a can or SBR, then I would look at all frange less fiocchi.
C4
How many spots are open for this class?
And when do you need to register by?
How many spots are open for this class?
And when do you need to register by?
I think this class is pretty full so you might want to act fast.
C4
How many spots are open for this class?
And when do you need to register by?
The class is currently 2/3 full.
Please feel free to hit me up with an email.
training@greygrouptraining.com
The class is currently 2/3 full.
Please feel free to hit me up with an email.
training@greygrouptraining.com
email sent earlier today...
glock_forty5
01-27-11, 04:45
I think a lot of people would be in on that group buy. I'm sure Grant can have it shipped to one location so we're not all shipping it to and from. Hopefully grant finds some good stuff. ;)
Thanks!
Well I've got a spot reserved! :D
Got a couple questions though:
How does flying with all these guns, gear and ammo work?
And where is a good place to get some body armor that sells to civilians? All I want is stand alone level 4 plates with a simple low pro carrier. I was thinking bulletproofme, but I have yet to see a review anywhere saying that their stuff is good? And there has been plenty of people asking that question, just never a definitive answer confirming their quality.
Any thoughts?
Looking forward to this class!
I wouldn't suggest flying with the ammo. You'll want to have it shipped out in advance. As for flying with guns, it's not hard. PM me and I can walk you through it.
Paid for and missed this class last year. Hoping to make this one!
Well I've got a spot reserved! :D
Got a couple questions though:
How does flying with all these guns, gear and ammo work?
Pretty simple. Get a storm case (or whatever hard case you like) and pack your weapons in it. I like to break down my AR into upper and lower as it allows me to use a smaller case.
You cannot take your ammo, but could either buy your ammo there or ship it to your hotel and or to blackwater (I think).
And where is a good place to get some body armor that sells to civilians? All I want is stand alone level 4 plates with a simple low pro carrier. I was thinking bulletproofme, but I have yet to see a review anywhere saying that their stuff is good? And there has been plenty of people asking that question, just never a definitive answer confirming their quality.
GGT sells Mayflower so I would look at them. This is good kit IMHO.
Looking forward to meeting you and we might even be partners in the house! :D
C4
Paid for and missed this class last year. Hoping to make this one!
Cool Vihn! I look forward to you showing me how much I suck with a gun (again). :D
C4
You can fly with ammo. However, federal regs limit it to about 5 lb? - definitely not enough for a class - and it has to be packed in a separate container. After a class, I had some left over. So I packed into my hard case. I had 10 20 round boxes of .223 and a few boxes of 9mm that were outside of my rifle's soft case. The TSA guy asked me prior to inspection how it was packaged and after examining the contents ok'd it.
glock_forty5
01-30-11, 07:12
You cannot take your ammo, but could either buy your ammo there or ship it to your hotel and or to blackwater (I think).
We have had ammo shipped to BW before. We just let the BW staff know ahead of time and gave them our name and class we were taking. Once it got there, they brought it to us at the range.
FYI: This class is now full.
Thank you to everyone who signed up. We are still going to be taking names for a stand-by list so please feel free if you would like to attend.
See you guys in the class.
Thanks,
Paul
Larry Vickers
01-31-11, 19:12
Thanx to everyone for the overwhelming response to this class - I think this may be a new record for one of my classes as it is filled up like 11 months in advance!!
Thanx as always to VA Dinger and Grey Group for the support as well as a special thanx to USTC - they have always treated me like gold there regardless if I am filming or teaching - thanx a million for the excellent support!!
Be safe
LAV
GLOCKMASTER
01-31-11, 19:28
Hey Grant any news on the frangible ammunition for this class?
Grant, I'll need frang ammo for the class and I'd like to get some ahead of time to test out in my LMT 10.5".
Bump. Any news on frang?
Unless Grant comes up with some I would just order it from the USTC Pro Shop. It's the easy way, and priced reasonable.
Unless Grant comes up with some I would just order it from the USTC Pro Shop. It's the easy way, and priced reasonable.
Any idea if it's suppressor safe? Or even okay to run through a muzzle brake without turning it into a frag grenade.
Any idea if it's suppressor safe? Or even okay to run through a muzzle brake without turning it into a frag grenade.
We've had several suppressed carbines in all the other classes run it. So far, no issues.
Have to tag this one for updates alone.
We've had several suppressed carbines in all the other classes run it. So far, no issues.
VA, (252) 435- 0227, correct? Might be worth getting a price quote in case Grant has his hands full.
Thank you in advance.
VA, (252) 435- 0227, correct? Might be worth getting a price quote in case Grant has his hands full.
Thank you in advance.
I'd call the Pro Shop directly.
252-435-1738
But even if you call the sales department they will direct your call.
Roger that I'll post a price up just for anyone interested.
Man, this class still calls my name. This sounds like everything I wanted out of training and the reason I persued firearms. Dinger gave me the green light, but the wifey called an audible. :eek: Its her birthday! She gave me the "you can go" line, but I know what that means.
Maybe next time. Y'all enjoy and I look forward to the write up and photos.
:ph34r:
30 cal slut
06-21-11, 07:58
We've had several suppressed carbines in all the other classes run it. So far, no issues.
Hmmmm.
(reaching for Form 5320.20 as I type this).
Hmmmm.
(reaching for Form 5320.20 as I type this).
I guess somebody got themselves a silencer...didnt think they allowed those in your state.
Is there a waiting list for this class in case someone drops out? If so how can I get on it?
30 cal slut
06-25-11, 17:37
I guess somebody got themselves a silencer...didnt think they allowed those in your state.
We have everything except select fire. :D
That means full auto only machine guns. :rolleyes:
But yes, we have cans, sbr's, and even dd's. :jester:
3 months to go. Where's everyone snagging their ammo from?
I'm wondering if I can bring my brandy new MP5 (okay, MKE, whatever) and shoot subguns while the rest of you bums are shooting rifles! I think that'd be fun.
Alright, room at the lodge booked, flight booked, 5320.20s sent again, armor good to go, just gotta get ammo...
1.5 months to go. Haha, and yes, bring your MP5!
Coming up fast! Has epic written all over it... :dirol:
Has anyone gotten their frangible in? Especially stuff that'll run through a suppressor?
I really need to order my ammo.
Has anyone gotten their frangible in? Especially stuff that'll run through a suppressor?
I really need to order my ammo.
Not to call him out, but isn't Grant getting an order together?
Not to call him out, but isn't Grant getting an order together?
I thought that's what the plan was. But it's been quiet from Grant, too quiet. Grant, any updates?
I thought that's what the plan was. But it's been quiet from Grant, too quiet. Grant, any updates?
Well in the meantime, I looked and couldn't find any frangible at the usual places....anybody know of anything that won't cost $1+ per round? Also, I won't be using a suppressor, so having "suppressor-safe" isn't important to me...
For those running suppressors I've done some digging, thanks to M4Guru especially, and the best round to use is the Black Hills 62gr RRLP. Now...that said if you call BH they'll basically tell you no civilian sales.
So the civilian equivalent is their BH 55GR MPG round. It's about 60 bucks for a box of 50 rounds. The best place to get it by the box is First Stop in Rapid City, SD.
Just a heads up. Shit be spendy, but at least it's safer.
Lastly, GGT lists this is 200 rounds 5.56 Frang. But Page 1 of this thread says 300. Any clarification?
For those running suppressors I've done some digging, thanks to M4Guru especially, and the best round to use is the Black Hills 62gr RRLP. Now...that said if you call BH they'll basically tell you no civilian sales.
I'll see if I can get you guys some and have it sent to my work then you guys can pick it up or I can drop it off. What ever is easier. Lets say I could get it, how much should I ask for? The only thing I see that could suck, is there would have to be a minimum order I'm assuming. I'll see what they say and will post up.
-Carlo
I'll see if I can get you guys some and have it sent to my work then you guys can pick it up or I can drop it off. What ever is easier. Lets say I could get it, how much should I ask for? The only thing I see that could suck, is there would have to be a minimum order I'm assuming. I'll see what they say and will post up.
-Carlo
If the price isn't bad, I'd say 250 rounds should suffice, possibly 300. PM sent.
30 cal slut
09-22-11, 18:35
I stumbled on a stash of this stuff
http://www.ssarmory.com/556ammunition-2-3.aspx
at a local store, that's what i'm rocking.
since it's a barnes rrlp, i'm assuming (hoping) it's suppressor safe.
Barnes is what the Black Hills uses as well. I'll either try to procure some 62gr RRLP or just use the 55gr MPG.
Any suggestions for some that doesn't have to be suppressor safe...something reletively cheap preferably?
Any suggestions for some that doesn't have to be suppressor safe...something reletively cheap preferably?
YMMV:
http://www.gilbertsguns.com/Ammunition/Rifle+Ammo/Winchester+5+56+Frangible+55+Grain+Ammo+200+ID+Required
I've seen some frangible that's great, some that's absolute shit. I'd rather pay the 300 bucks for stuff I know won't leave me weeping over a trashed gun in class. So as stated, YMMV!
I've seen some frangible that's great, some that's absolute shit. I'd rather pay the 300 bucks for stuff I know won't leave me weeping over a trashed gun in class. So as stated, YMMV!
Yeah I didn't think of it that way...never worked with frangible before...and since I only have one gun...
Is that Winchester liable to make me weep?
Yeah I didn't think of it that way...never worked with frangible before...and since I only have one gun...
Is that Winchester liable to make me weep?
I wish I knew. Most frangible is non-jacketed, which can be a tad weird in terms of feeding.
I really don't have that much experience, and frankly we're only shooting 200 rounds, but I wanted to be able to run my suppressor on my SBR.
On that note, I sent an email to BHA this morning. Just awaiting his response
On that note, I sent an email to BHA this morning. Just awaiting his response
Great, depending on what you hear back today I'll order my frangible later this afternoon.
I wish I knew. Most frangible is non-jacketed, which can be a tad weird in terms of feeding.
I really don't have that much experience, and frankly we're only shooting 200 rounds, but I wanted to be able to run my suppressor on my SBR.
I thought it was 300?
And if there is a possible group buy with a ship to BW, then I'll do that...keep us updated...
I thought it was 300?
And if there is a possible group buy with a ship to BW, then I'll do that...keep us updated...
Go to the GGT page, it says 200, it only says 300 here. I'm probably going to do 250, but there's some misinformation for sure.
Can someone officially confirm the count?
For the record, I just emailed Larry:
Round count is 300 frangible carbine!
I thought it was 300?
And if there is a possible group buy with a ship to BW, then I'll do that...keep us updated...
If i get the green light, I'll have to have it shipped to my work. You have to pass by my house to get to BW if you're driving down from VA. So you guys can just pick it up. So no shipping fees =) maybe just a case of stella or amstel or both lol. And more than likely it will have to be ordered by case. I'll get at least 2 if others need it. if not, ill just keep it.
If i get the green light, I'll have to have it shipped to my work. You have to pass by my house to get to BW if you're driving down from VA. So you guys can just pick it up. So no shipping fees =) maybe just a case of stella or amstel or both lol. And more than likely it will have to be ordered by case. I'll get at least 2 if others need it. if not, ill just keep it.
Sounds great! Let us know what you can get and for what price. Thanks!
Just got confirmation on 500 rounds of frang for the class ... OPA baby, always the finest ammo :o
I will bring it all with so if anyone is jammed up I'll have a lil extra...
Epic class will be epic:cool:
Just got confirmation on 500 rounds of frang for the class ... OPA baby, always the finest ammo :o
I will bring it all with so if anyone is jammed up I'll have a lil extra...
Epic class will be epic:cool:
Might want to rephrase that, for a second I thought you meant confirmation we NEEDED 500 rounds. I was gonna punch you.
Heavy Metal
09-24-11, 19:32
I would be interested in some quality frang ammo.
Ok need to finalize some things for the class...
1) Will there be a group buy for frang ammo? If so, who do I contact? If not, where do I get it?
2) Who do I need to contact for shipping armor, ammo, ect to BW? Where exactly should I ship it?
First time flying to a course and dealing with GG/BW, so I may need a little hand holding here :p
30 cal slut
10-05-11, 07:28
Ok need to finalize some things for the class...
1) Will there be a group buy for frang ammo? If so, who do I contact? If not, where do I get it?
2) Who do I need to contact for shipping armor, ammo, ect to BW? Where exactly should I ship it?
First time flying to a course and dealing with GG/BW, so I may need a little hand holding here :p
1) Call the onsite pro shop. # is 252-435-1738, they sell frang.
2) If you are staying at the Black Bear Inn onsite, call 252-435-1950
1) Call the onsite pro shop. # is 252-435-1738, they sell frang.
2) If you are staying at the Black Bear Inn onsite, call 252-435-1950
Awesome thanks 30 cal...need to call BB Inn to book my room anyway.
1. I ended up doing a small group order with JakJakman for 300-350 rounds of BH 55GR MPG.
2. I have a big-ass storm case so I'll just be checking in my armor, then a case for my guns. Just to make things go smoother I'll throw one of my handguns in with the armor so the case will get treated a tad better.
Question, do you guys know when GG bills for the remaining sum for this class?
1-2 weeks out from what I can remember.
So it looks like I now have a lead on some 62gr Frangible. They couldn't get me a price the first time around, because the new brass is fully used up for contracts. I told them seconds military brass will suffice if it help with lowering the cost. I plan on order (2) cases of 500rds totaling 1000rds. They come in boxes of 50. I'm not making any money on this FYI.
$42.50/box of 50rds
***pick up only in Chesapeake, va which is on the way down to BW if flying into Norfolk ***
If anyone would like some frangible, please shoot me an email.
C45P312@gmail.com
Feel free to shoot me an email with any questions possible
1-2 weeks out from what I can remember.
Thanks for the info!
This class deserves a countdown bump. :neo:
No shit - this doesn't need the work "probability" as it will be awesome!
Good to see you'll be their D90King!
Heavy Metal
10-23-11, 22:47
I got my frang ammo loaded-up this week. Tested it today. It shot great.
Barnes 55gr frang bullets over 23gr of H-335 in .mil brass with a Remmy 7.5 Primer.
Class ammo is getting to D90 on tuesday. Then I just have to kill another week, then sit my ass on a plane.
Yep, now the excitement is kicking in.
30 cal slut
10-24-11, 15:33
Greatly looking forward to this one!
Greatly looking forward to this one!
What he said!
So if my MATHS are correct we're one week out. :dirol:
So if my MATHS are correct we're one week out. :dirol:
Less than 6 days for me! :cool:
5 for me. I leave Wednesday night at 11pm. What possessed me to leave that late is beyond me.
I think it is that portland address of yours...will be arriving Thursday evening sometime myself...
Haha I don't know why I'm leaving at 6am Thursday morning with about a 3 hr layover in ATL either...not the smartest plan! :eek:
Anyways the weather channel had Fri-Sun with Low's of low 50's and Highs of high 60's with less than a 20% chance of rain. Should be great weather!
All the flights leaving thursday got me in late that evening unless I wanted to pay a ton for another airline.
I wanted to get in. Unpack gear. And hang so id be relaxed for Friday.
Anyways the weather channel had Fri-Sun with Low's of low 50's and Highs of high 60's with less than a 20% chance of rain. Should be great weather!
I was watching it last week, and it was at one point looking to be raining the entire class. Now partly cloudy. I'm thinking things will change again, but if that holds it should be a great weekend.
30 cal slut
10-31-11, 08:40
I think it is that portland address of yours...will be arriving Thursday evening sometime myself...
a short drive for you! (turning green w/ envy).
glock_forty5
11-03-11, 08:14
Leaving in an hour and should be there by 1600. After checking in and hitting the gym we will head out for chow at 1800. We will hang out by the big bear before we go if anyone wants to head out with.
JT
Currently at ATL waiting for my flight in to Norfol.
My "dead hooker" case was 9lbs over the limit. So I asked TSA and they said I could carry my armor on the plane in my backpack. I got to see the X-ray. So I at least know they're in good condition. Haha.
See you guys soon.
30 cal slut
11-05-11, 19:39
"F*cking" + "Motherf*cking" + "Aimpoint" :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
"F*cking" + "Motherf*cking" + "Aimpoint" :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
Aim ****ing mother ****ing point.
glock_forty5
11-05-11, 20:58
No, its just the new tag line.
No, its just the new tag line.
When you say it like that I imagine someone is using an EOTech?
Just Larry's way of declaring it THE choice for an optic on a fighting carbine.
glock_forty5
11-06-11, 22:00
When you say it like that I imagine someone is using an EOTech?
Guilty as charged, but I was not alone. I did a clean run through the house one time using just my irons, you never know... ;)
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