Modern day Hitler Brownshirts intimidate those who expose voter fraud. [Archive]

500grains

12-12-10, 10:42

The Democratik Party's message to politically involved citizens is unmistakably dire. For those who attempt to expose their rampant voter fraud, expect to be harassed, beaten and even sued. This is what happened to a group called the King Street Patriots (KSP) in Harris County (Houston), Texas.

So far, intimidation has failed to deter these proud and steadfast citizens. "These lawsuits are exactly the kind of abusive disrespect for citizens that got our political leaders into trouble. We will not be intimidated by partisan attacks, by the Democratic Party, or by anyone," is the defiant retort from volunteer leader of King Street Patriots, Catherine Engelbrecht.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/12/vote_fraud_as_a_democrat_start.html

Cloward and Piven were both there, smiling like the assholes they are, at the signing of Motor Voter with Bubba Clinton.

George Soro's, "Open Society Foundation," funds leftist voter fraud organizations such as; "Texans for Public Justice" and "Texans Together Education Fund." As well as ACORN.

Spiffums

12-12-10, 11:47

KSP......... sounds like a gang name doesn't it? I wonder how fast the media would be to jump on them as a gang?

rickrock305

12-12-10, 12:40

sorry, but voter fraud, intimidation, etc., isn't only coming from the Dems. Both sides and everyone in between are plenty guilty.

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 12:44

sorry, but voter fraud, intimidation, etc., isn't only coming from the Dems. Both sides and everyone in between are plenty guilty.

Both sides are plenty guilty. 99% guilty for Democrats, 1% guilty for Republicans.

In rickrock305 math 99=1

How more ****ed-up can you get?

BAC

12-12-10, 12:57

Both sides are plenty guilty. 99% guilty for Democrats, 1% guilty for Republicans.

http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/1865/original/wikipedian_protester.png?1264978805

-B

Complication

12-12-10, 12:57

How more ****ed-up can you get?

You could go around willy-nilly likening people to Hitler. That's a lot more ****ed-up.

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 13:15

You could go around willy-nilly likening people to Hitler. That's a lot more ****ed-up.

Hey, if the Jack Boot fits, wear it.

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 13:22

http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/1865/original/wikipedian_protester.png?1264978805

-B

For starters:

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2010/07/12/democrat-voter-fraud-sen-al-franken-in-minnesota-may-have-benefited-from-voter-fraud-findings-show-convicted-felons-voted-in-election/

Palmguy

12-12-10, 13:24

sorry, but voter fraud, intimidation, etc., isn't only coming from the Dems. Both sides and everyone in between are plenty guilty.

Sounds like you are refuting claims that weren't made.

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 13:33

Typical liberal trick is to obscure the issue when something they don't like is happening. The old moral eq trick rickrock was playing for one.

Another oldie but goodie is the race card.

BAC

12-12-10, 13:35

For starters:

http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2010/07/12/democrat-voter-fraud-sen-al-franken-in-minnesota-may-have-benefited-from-voter-fraud-findings-show-convicted-felons-voted-in-election/

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't seem to find support of your previous claim. Help a brother out?

-B

kal

12-12-10, 13:42

You could go around willy-nilly likening people to Hitler. That's a lot more ****ed-up.

no it's not ****ed up. If you don't like a group of people, then you vilify them and have everybody turn against them. That's the way the game is played.

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 13:54

Maybe I'm blind, but I can't seem to find support of your previous claim. Help a brother out?

-B

Riddle me this Batman?

Why is it when the Democrat is behind, the uncounted boxes of 'found' in somebody's trunk votes overwhelmingly favor the losing Democrat ALA Al Franken and never the Republian?

Why is it always democratic strongholds that end up having more registered voters and still run out of ballots on election night than residents listed on the last census?

Why is it always the overwhelmingly Republican military absentee votes that Democrat election officials go out of their way to look for a reason to distribute late or reject and the same officials are at the local prison bright and early to make sure every vote there is counted?

Why is it when Democrats speak of Republican vote fraud, they say so in dark hushed tones with the sincerety of OJ discussing the culpability of the 'real killers' in the death of his wife and her friend?

Why is it when Republians speak of it they produce video tapes of ACORN officals bragging about doing it or planning it?

BAC

12-12-10, 14:06

You're missing the point.

You made an assertion attesting to the rate at which one political party cheats in voting compared to another political party. I'm not disputing that the Democratic Party's been involved in shady shit. I'm disputing your claim that they've done it more, let alone almost one hundred times more, than the Republican Party.

-B

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 14:09

So you think they are equally culpable?

Can you provide convincing evidence of one major instance of Republican vote fraud?

Just one!

BAC

12-12-10, 14:14

I didn't say what I think. I'm asking you to show where you arrived at the conclusion you did.

-B

Suwannee Tim

12-12-10, 14:29

sorry, but voter fraud, intimidation, etc., isn't only coming from the Dems. Both sides and everyone in between are plenty guilty.

Care to give us some examples of Republican voter fraud? I'm guessing that you CAN'T.

Complication

12-12-10, 15:07

Hey, if the Jack Boot fits, wear it.

When the "jack boot" is invading a few continents and being responsible for the deaths of 10's of millions of people, then you're a flipping idiot to think this is anything like that.

khc3

12-12-10, 15:08

Care to give us some examples of Republican voter fraud? I'm guessing that you CAN'T.

According to the USCCR, laws requiring picture ID to vote, police patrols anywhere in a city on election day, any mistaken idea of when or where voting is taking place on the part of minorities...all are examples of voter "intimidation" faced by minorities, obviously at the hands of evil, rich, white Republican fat cats.

No kidding.

CarlosDJackal

12-12-10, 15:27

sorry, but voter fraud, intimidation, etc., isn't only coming from the Dems. Both sides and everyone in between are plenty guilty.

Yeah, there were hate groups that were out in force during the 2000 and 2004 elections intimidating voters outside of polling locations. That must be where the black panthers, an upstanding group of "citizens", learned their tactic from. :rolleyes:

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 16:12

When the "jack boot" is invading a few continents and being responsible for the deaths of 10's of millions of people, then you're a flipping idiot to think this is anything like that.

What is idiocy is anyone with a relatively functional frontal cortex holding the belief there is anything remotly approaching equivilancy between the democrat and republican parties regarding vote fraud.

BTW, how many tens of millions did you say the Brown Shirts killed? You do realize the SS pretty much wiped-out the SA during the 1930's right?

500grains

12-12-10, 17:31

no it's not ****ed up. If you don't like a group of people, then you vilify them and have everybody turn against them. That's the way the game is played.

Actually, if you know a bit about history and see a historical parallel, point it out.

500grains

12-12-10, 17:33

500grains

12-12-10, 17:34

According to the USCCR, laws requiring picture ID to vote, police patrols anywhere in a city on election day, any mistaken idea of when or where voting is taking place on the part of minorities...all are examples of voter "intimidation" faced by minorities, obviously at the hands of evil, rich, white Republican fat cats.

No kidding.

Anyone who is intimidated by the mere presence of a policeman probably has an outstanding warrant.... and probably has a felony conviction which makes it unlawful for him to vote.

GermanSynergy

12-12-10, 19:02

Since when has that stopped them from voting Democrat?:sarcastic:

Anyone who is intimidated by the mere presence of a policeman probably has an outstanding warrant.... and probably has a felony conviction which makes it unlawful for him to vote.

khc3

12-12-10, 20:14

Anyone who is intimidated by the mere presence of a policeman probably has an outstanding warrant.... and probably has a felony conviction which makes it unlawful for him to vote.

Well after the "stolen election" of 2000, civil rights professionals launched a five-year probe by the USCCR, complete with numerous public hearings.

Two years after those studies were finished, they produced a report which documented the examples of voter intimidation I described.

If you don't think driving past a policeman, or even going through a police checkpoint, rises to the level of "voter intimidation," take it up with them.

Belmont31R

12-12-10, 20:18

Well after the "stolen election" of 2000, civil rights professionals launched a five-year probe by the USCCR, complete with numerous public hearings.

Two years after those studies were finished, they produced a report which documented the examples of voter intimidation I described.

If you don't think driving past a policeman, or even going through a police checkpoint, rises to the level of "voter intimidation," take it up with them.

Yet Black Panthers with billy clubs get a slap on the wrist....?

500grains

12-12-10, 21:05

Yeah, I clearly remember those poll workers in Dem counties where the commie candidate wanted a recount mysteriously "finding" more and more votes every time they looked at the ballots. That certainly was fraud.

Mac5.56

12-12-10, 21:10

Belmont31R

12-12-10, 21:20

[QUOTE=Heavy Metal;842930]Both sides are plenty guilty. 99% guilty for Democrats, 1% guilty for Republicans.
/QUOTE]

Bull Shit! You just choose to only listen to one side of reality, in order to inflate your sense of righteousness. Start paying attention man, this is going on on both sides equally.

In what instances? I like to think I pay attention to politics pretty well, and Ive never heard of national republican oriented groups on the level of ACORN that exist soley to bolster votes. I dont see anyone like George Soros on the GOP side with the SOS project which has done things like get Al Franken elected.

Im sure it does happen on both sides but lefties have made it an industry and concerted effort. ACORN has been charged with voter law violations in several states with numerous charges in each. I dont see any GOP groups having the same issues.

If you want to say it happens EQUALLY then we need some evidence of GOP supporter groups on par with ACORN, Soros, SEIU running the voting machines in NV, ect.

Mac5.56

12-12-10, 21:31

[QUOTE=Mac5.56;843503]

In what instances? I like to think I pay attention to politics pretty well, and Ive never heard of national republican oriented groups on the level of ACORN that exist soley to bolster votes. I dont see anyone like George Soros on the GOP side with the SOS project which has done things like get Al Franken elected.

Im sure it does happen on both sides but lefties have made it an industry and concerted effort. ACORN has been charged with voter law violations in several states with numerous charges in each. I dont see any GOP groups having the same issues.

If you want to say it happens EQUALLY then we need some evidence of GOP supporter groups on par with ACORN, Soros, SEIU running the voting machines in NV, ect.

1. Swift Boats For Peace. While you may agree with what they said, they are the same as anything backed by Soros.
2. 80% of the political smear campaign adds this last election were traced back to corporations, and not for profits that were funded by Conservative groups, or individuals. If I remember correctly this election saw more money spent then any mid term in the history of the country. You can do the math there.
3. The Tea Party is an organization started and funded by Billionares on the Right. If you would like me to write my good friend who is a political scientist for the exact names of the founders I can do that. Just like INTERNATIONAL ANSWER, the Tea Party is backed by people with a nefarious agenda all of whom are individuals with a lot more money then you or I will ever see in our lives. In fact, the Tea Party is documented as the FIRST social movement in the history of the United States of America that was first started in a think tank, then funded by billionares, then made "grass roots." Every other social movement in the history of this country has started among the people, then eventually reached people of influence. The Tea Party was in fact the complete opposite. 4. In the 2004 presidential election there are well documented reports of voter intimidation in EVERY swing state in the nation on the part of Bush Supporters. In Ohio, it went so far as the distribution of fliers that told people in minority neighborhoods to go vote on a day other then election day. There were mass phone calls to minority neighborhoods telling people they would be fired if they voted, ticketed if they voted, ext. There were people that patrolled minority areas and called in illegally parked cars, ext. Pure and simple voter intimidation.
5. In 2000 the same thing happened in Florida. (Both of these cases are very well documented, more so then the above link).

Honestly this is just five examples. There are entire books written about voter intimidation on the part of the Right Wing of this nation. You would have to have your head in the sand to have not even caught a mention of it.

WillC

12-12-10, 21:31

At least the Brownshirts were Nationalistic...

Belmont31R

12-12-10, 21:44

[QUOTE=Belmont31R;843518]

1. Swift Boats For Peace. While you may agree with what they said, they are the same as anything backed by Soros.
2. 80% of the political smear campaign adds this last election were traced back to corporations, and not for profits that were funded by Conservative groups, or individuals. If I remember correctly this election saw more money spent then any mid term in the history of the country. You can do the math there.
3. The Tea Party is an organization started and funded by Billionares on the Right. If you would like me to write my good friend who is a political scientist for the exact names of the founders I can do that. Just like INTERNATIONAL ANSWER, the Tea Party is backed by people with a nefarious agenda all of whom are individuals with a lot more money then you or I will ever see in our lives. In fact, the Tea Party is documented as the FIRST social movement in the history of the United States of America that was first started in a think tank, then funded by billionares, then made "grass roots." Every other social movement in the history of this country has started among the people, then eventually reached people of influence. The Tea Party was in fact the complete opposite. 4. In the 2004 presidential election there are well documented reports of voter intimidation in EVERY swing state in the nation on the part of Bush Supporters. In Ohio, it went so far as the distribution of fliers that told people in minority neighborhoods to go vote on a day other then election day. There were mass phone calls to minority neighborhoods telling people they would be fired if they voted, ticketed if they voted, ext. There were people that patrolled minority areas and called in illegally parked cars, ext. Pure and simple voter intimidation.
5. In 2000 the same thing happened in Florida. (Both of these cases are very well documented, more so then the above link).

Honestly this is just five examples. There are entire books written about voter intimidation on the part of the Right Wing of this nation. You would have to have your head in the sand to have not even caught a mention of it.

1-4 have nothing to do with voter fraud. ETA: Are there any cases of republicans standing outside polling locations with billy clubs, and if so...what was the legal action against those individuals?

5. That election was not stolen. Multiple recounts after everything was said and done with media observers proved Bush won FL.

What national GOP groups have been accused of voter fraud and indicted in multiple states?

Mac5.56

12-12-10, 21:47

Belmont31R

12-12-10, 21:54

So then please illustrate using credible sources how Soros, and the SEIU committed "voter fraud", since you seem to be using fraud as your only barometer for anything illegal, or "brownshirt" like.

Also, number 4 has everything to do with voter fraud, in fact there are reports of rampant fraud throughout Ohio in 2004. All in Bush's favor.

As far as I know there is no SOS project on the republican side, and certainly no GOP SOS project that has done anything like the Al Franken election.

I never said there is no GOP voter fraud going on....however to say its done equally on both sides is wrong.

ETA: Type in SEIU voter fraud in google. Im not going to go back through a few years of memory, and search for an article for you on every instance. Its just funny in some places how so many times SEIU goons are put in charge of voting machines there are issues that are quickly swept under the rug.

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 21:59

Well after the "stolen election" of 2000, civil rights professionals launched a five-year probe by the USCCR, complete with numerous public hearings.

Two years after those studies were finished, they produced a report which documented the examples of voter intimidation I described.

If you don't think driving past a policeman, or even going through a police checkpoint, rises to the level of "voter intimidation," take it up with them.

I think the idea of a police checkpoint for traffic control being constituted as voter intimidation to be absurd and laughable and any orginization that promotes it as such is a joke.

500grains

12-12-10, 21:59

Franken is an excellent example. Clearly proven voter fraud, and the Dems are pleased as punch. They are nothing for the principles in our Constitution.

Palmguy

12-12-10, 22:00

As far as I know there is no SOS project on the republican side, and certainly no GOP SOS project that has done anything like the Al Franken election.

I never said there is no GOP voter fraud going on....however to say its done equally on both sides is wrong.

Yeah...it's likely somewhere in the middle between "absolutely equal to the tenth decimal place between the two parties" and "no Republican has ever engaged in anything remotely approaching voter fraud/intimidation/etc"

5. In 2000 the same thing happened in Florida.

:sarcastic:

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 22:00

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 22:04

5. In 2000 the same thing happened in Florida. (Both of these cases are very well documented, more so then the above link).

The only thing that happened in Florida in 2000 was Al Gore tried to cherry-pick recounts in counties to steal and election and the USSC shot him down.

Don't you think it was funny that evey time th evotes were hand-counted again, Gore got closer? Statistically speaking, it should have gone the other way half the time.

The dems were trying to massage out enough chads to win and the courts stopped saw thru this and stopped them.

The allegations of vote fraund by republicans in FL and OH is nothing more than projection from the democrats because that is what they would have done.

Here Mac 5.56, I have bullshit on the phone and they are calling you:

http://articles.cnn.com/2001-04-04/politics/florida.recount.01_1_ballots-without-presidential-votes-undercounted-ballots-miami-herald-and-usa?_s=PM:ALLPOLITICS

CNN good enough a source for ya?

Mac5.56

12-12-10, 22:06

I heard plenty of allegations but never saw one shred of evidence. Allegations do not equal evidence.

Realize you probably don't think their a credible source, but The Souther Poverty Law Center has evidence. And there are others.

On a side note, my original statement and my follow up statement to Belmont were more based on the comparison and statement regarding fascist practices by this group of "brown shirts" that did the alleged intimidation. It was less about the alleged fraud. My statement was meant to illustrate that there are equal amounts of brownshirts on the right as there are on the left, and that was what I was responding to.

khc3

12-12-10, 22:34

I think the idea of a police checkpoint for traffic control being constituted as voter intimidation to be absurd and laughable and any orginization that promotes it as such is a joke.

Well, many would consider the USCCR a joke, but your tax dollars pay for it, so...

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 22:35

The Souther Poverty Law Center has evidence

Morris Dees is a race hustling pimp and a fraud. I have seen things the cat coughed-up more credible that that bilge.

The SPLC is a fraud but don't take my word for it:

http://www.google.com/search?q=sPLC+fraud&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIT_en#sclient=psy&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us%3AIE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGIT_en&source=hp&q=SPLC+fraud&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=ded5a2edbb6a28fc

This one is especially relevant:

http://nationalvanguard.org/2010/10/new-study-splc-is-a-fraud/

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 22:36

Well, many would consider the USCCR a joke, but your tax dollars pay for it, so...

So it is a fradulent joke.

Heavy Metal

12-12-10, 22:37

Realize you probably don't think their a credible source, but The Souther Poverty Law Center has evidence. And there are others.

On a side note, my original statement and my follow up statement to Belmont were more based on the comparison and statement regarding fascist practices by this group of "brown shirts" that did the alleged intimidation. It was less about the alleged fraud. My statement was meant to illustrate that there are equal amounts of brownshirts on the right as there are on the left, and that was what I was responding to.

The question I have for you is do you consider CNN a credible source?

500grains

12-12-10, 22:49

Realize you probably don't think their a credible source, but The Souther Poverty Law Center has evidence.

Aren't they the ones who call people who oppose the Obongo agenda or who don't want higher taxes "terrorists"? Citing them is an admission of no evidence.

Mac5.56

12-13-10, 10:34

The question I have for you is do you consider CNN a credible source?

Nope I don't... Are they more credible then Fox? I would say they are less biased then Fox, but credible no.

I do think it's funny once I started talking about fascist brown shirt like practices that you all just decided to focus on my source... :sarcastic:

Heavy Metal

12-13-10, 10:47

Would you consider a crack addict a source of credible evidence? Why should any reasonable, thinking person consider the SPLC the least bit credible?

They have ZERO credibility:

http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/06/southern-poverty-law-center-social-conservative-organizations-are-hate-groups/

Heavy Metal

12-13-10, 10:48

Nope I don't... Are they more credible then Fox? I would say they are less biased then Fox, but credible no.

I do think it's funny once I started talking about fascist brown shirt like practices that you all just decided to focus on my source... :sarcastic:

I didn't make the Brown Shirt remark in case you were paying attention. I just said if the Jack Boot fits, wear it.

Try and not get flat feet from goosestepping too much in your basement.

Mac5.56

12-13-10, 10:53

I didn't make the Brown Shirt remark in case you were paying attention. I just said if the Jack Boot fits, wear it.

Try and not get flat feet from goosestepping too much in your basement.

So disagreeing with You and people in this thread makes me a fascist?

How very.... uhhh.... Fascist of you.

Thank you for offering another source of reference regarding the ignorance that abounds on the right side of politics in this country.

p.s. being a realist is pretty cool, you should try it. It means your not on the extreme Left, or the extreme Right, you just want to see your country function without idiots in charge.

Heavy Metal

12-13-10, 10:56

So you are admitting they fit?

Are you self-identifying? Me thinks thou doest protest too much.

So disagreeing with You and people in this thread makes me a fascist?

Endorsing the SPLC as a credible source certainly gives you some cred in that department. Lie down with dogs, get fleas and all that stuff. That is how the real world works you know.

Heavy Metal

12-13-10, 11:02

If you would like me to write my good friend who is a political scientist for the exact names of the founders I can do that. Just like INTERNATIONAL ANSWER, the Tea Party is backed by people with a nefarious agenda all of whom are individuals with a lot more money then you or I will ever see in our lives. In fact, the Tea Party is documented as the FIRST social movement in the history of the United States of America that was first started in a think tank, then funded by billionares, then made "grass roots."

We really need a 'looney-tunes' emoticon.

DU much? That is exactly the kind of blige water that comes from the furitcakes and moonbats over there.

Mac5.56

12-13-10, 11:05

Let me guess your the kind of guy that threatens people physically when they don't agree with you.

Go plug yourself back into the idiot machine man. Rush, and Glen are true heros and your just a soldier in their army.

GermanSynergy

12-13-10, 11:10

The SPLC is hardly a group know for their veracity. The folks that disagree probably watch Keith Olberman on Mess NBC, aka North Korean television.

I am listening to Rush as we speak. :sarcastic:

jklaughrey

12-13-10, 11:30

SPLC and the word "credible", should never be used in a sentence purporting factual truth.

Palmguy

12-13-10, 11:40

Who is Glen? :confused:

Cincinnatus

12-13-10, 12:08

You could go around willy-nilly likening people to Hitler. That's a lot more ****ed-up.

Like Pelosi calling Tea Partiers Nazis?

Heavy Metal

12-13-10, 12:09

Go plug yourself back into the idiot machine man. Rush, and Glen are true heros and your just a soldier in their army.

Don't you think you would be happier back over at DU with the rest of the day care crowd?

Let me guess your the kind of guy that threatens people physically when they don't agree with you.

I am not now, nor have I ever been, a SEIU thug.

Cincinnatus

12-13-10, 12:15

Realize you probably don't think their a credible source, but The Souther Poverty Law Center has evidence. And there are others.

On a side note, my original statement and my follow up statement to Belmont were more based on the comparison and statement regarding fascist practices by this group of "brown shirts" that did the alleged intimidation. It was less about the alleged fraud. My statement was meant to illustrate that there are equal amounts of brownshirts on the right as there are on the left, and that was what I was responding to.

The Southern Poverty Law Center is a politcal hack organization, hardly a credible source for anything but party-line boiler-plate. They just labeled a bunch of family Christian groups as hate groups on the line of the Aryan Nation if that tells you anything.

BAC

12-13-10, 12:26

So,

Both sides are plenty guilty. 99% guilty for Democrats, 1% guilty for Republicans.

No source yet? I'm tempted to think you might've been exaggerating a bit. Which is perfectly fine, too. I just want to see the information you've seen that implicates one party almost exclusively.

There's a lot of vitriolic responses here but not a lot of facts. Some of us independent voters like and vote based on facts. We're pretty damn agood at self-policing when it comes to firearms, but with politics...

-B

Complication

12-13-10, 12:49

You guys realize that it's not normal to go around thinking everyone who doesn't agree with you politically is a sociopath who is out to destroy America and kill puppies and kittens, right?

This is getting kinda out of hand.

SWATcop556

12-13-10, 13:56

Everyone on this forum is allowed to disagree with each other in a PROFESSIONAL manner whether they lean left or right. There are left leaning gun owners as well right leaning "go greens."

What is not going to continue are personal attacks, bickering, and dick measuring. Argue away gentlemen but keep it within forum rules. Keep the profanity to a dull roar and the out right baiting to a zero.

Suwannee Tim

12-13-10, 16:37

Complication

12-13-10, 17:15

Everybody does it! If you don't believe everybody does it you are a (fill in the blank).

No, vote fraud is like rape, murder, arson and other crimes. Everybody doesn't do it. But the people who do it would sure like you to believe that everybody does it.

I don't think anyone's saying "everybody does it" so you can cut the dramatic hyperbole. I think what some folks are saying is "(extremists on) both sides do it." And while it's fine if you ask someone to provide evidence for that assertion, there's general frustration with the implication that:

a) being a democrat somehow means you're less American than republicans
and
b) sources which support democratic views have "zero credibility" just because someone on the errorweb says so and/or just because the source contradicts views you may hold near and dear.

Don't confuse someone saying "some extreme right-wingers participate in what could be considered vote fraud, too" with someone claiming all republicans do it all the time. Because that's just as bad as claiming that just because some left-wing nut jobs might participate in voter intimidation (or claim voter intimidation where there was none) that every democrat is just as bad (which seems like the sentiment of the thread so far).

BrianS

12-13-10, 20:58

SPLC has a long history of tarring gun owners and people on the political right as white supremacists and domestic terrorists, so I get why people don't think they are credible. They are clearly politically biased, a long term left wing/Democratic party organ, on par with SEIU and others that produce propaganda against the enemies of the left.

That said, I DO find it funny that somebody actually posted a link to an article on NATIONAL VANGUARD, an actual white supremacist organization, as evidence to show that SPLC is biased.

:o

rickrock305

12-13-10, 23:12

:D Wow

Heavy Metal

12-13-10, 23:15

rickrock305

12-13-10, 23:39

Are you really so far to the right that National Vanguard looks like a "lefty site"? :laugh:

Belmont31R

12-14-10, 00:18

Are you really so far to the right that National Vanguard looks like a "lefty site"? :laugh:

Most white supremacists follow the nazi example which is far lefty. Not commie lefty but a **** hairs distance away on the map.

mattjmcd

12-14-10, 00:19

p.s. being a realist is pretty cool, you should try it. It means your not on the extreme Left, or the extreme Right, you just want to see your country function without idiots in charge.

This from the poster who runs a sig line saying something along the lines of "having paved roads is socialism"? So, you're a centrist? Really?:confused:

A couple of points:

1- simple allegations are not credible. credible allegations are credible.

2- there are no noteworthy right-leaning groups with anything- ANYTHING- like SPLC's or ACORN's track record(s) of constant and truly flagrant abuse of voter registration laws. there are literally too many cases against them to list.

Belmont31R

12-14-10, 00:24

This from the poster who runs a sig line saying something along the lines of "having paved roads is socialism"? So, you're a centrist? Really?:confused:

A couple of points:

1- simple allegations are not credible. credible allegations are credible.

2- there are no noteworthy right-leaning groups with anything- ANYTHING- like SPLC's or ACORN's track record(s) of constant and truly flagrant abuse of voter registration laws. there are literally too many cases against them to list.

Thats exactly the point. ACORN institutionalizes voter fraud. There are no national GOP groups that can be remotely compared to ACORN. They have been indicted in multiple states for multiple voter fraud law violations. I think its close to 20 just in NV alone.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 00:31

ACORN has not been found guilty or even charged with one count of voter fraud.

WHOOPS!

Belmont31R

12-14-10, 00:36

ACORN has not been found guilty or even charged with one count of voter fraud.

WHOOPS!

Oops. I guess you missed this one...

LAS VEGAS — A former Las Vegas director for a political advocacy group accused of illegally paying canvassers to register voters during last year’s presidential campaign has pleaded guilty to a reduced charge and agreed to testify against the group and another employee.

Christopher Edwards pleaded guilty this week to two gross misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit the crime of compensation for registration of voters. He agreed to testify against the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, known as ACORN, and Amy Busefink, a former regional voter registration director.

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/nevada-acorn-director-guilty-acorn-voter-fraud-august-19-2009-las-vegas-director-guilty-christopher-edwards-will-testify-against-acorn-amy-busefink-former-regional-voter-registration-director/

And a double oops!

New election-fraud charges against employees of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in Wisconsin are a helpful reminder that the scandal-prone, far-left liberal group remains as determined as ever to cause trouble come election time.

In Milwaukee, Maria L. Miles and Kevin L. Clancy stand accused of felony election fraud for reportedly repeatedly registering the same individuals on voter-registration forms. Both face up to three years' imprisonment and a $10,000 fine. Milwaukee ACORN canvasser Latoya Lewis already was convicted of election fraud in October.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/12/new-indictments-hit-crumbling-acorn/

Less than 2 minutes in google....;)

rickrock305

12-14-10, 00:38

Again, ACORN has not been charged nor convicted of voter fraud.

These employees, basically subcontractors, were convicted of filing false voter registrations, which is not voter fraud. Not one of these false voter registrations ever led to an actual case of voter fraud.

And in the case of the Milwaukee folks, both were fired upon ACORN learning of their behaviors.

From your own article...

Carolyn Castore, a former ACORN political organizer who ran the voter registration drive, said Miles and Clancy were fired after the group uncovered the fraud on its own. She called their actions "a victimless crime" since they did not lead to illegal voting. She said the supervisor would have been fired "in a nanosecond" had she been aware of his behavior.

ACORN released a statement saying records show Clancy was fired after only about two weeks of employment.

"The small number of instances in which an employee has submitted duplicate or fraudulent voter registration cards are an example of workers attempting to defraud ACORN by passing off bad work as good work -- and the organization supports their prosecution," Whelan said.

You should probably take a little longer than 2 minutes and actually read the articles you post.

Regarding the Nevada cases...

Secretary of State Ross Miller has characterized the case as "registration fraud, not voter fraud." He said no voters in Nevada were paid for votes and no unqualified voters cast ballots.

What went on here were temp employees defrauding ACORN by filing duplicate and false registrations in order to meet their quotas. The worst thing ACORN is possible guilty of is paying people to sign up voter registrations. Not ONE of these duplicate registrations, which ACORN themselves brought to light, let to actual voter fraud.

Belmont31R

12-14-10, 00:44

Again, ACORN has not been charged nor convicted of voter fraud.

And that will never happen. However their members seem to be getting the attention of the law pretty frequently.

Just like someone with an illegal NFA weapon would not get the entire NRA charged with the crime. These laws fall on individuals not organizations.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 00:49

And that will never happen. However their members seem to be getting the attention of the law pretty frequently.

Just like someone with an illegal NFA weapon would not get the entire NRA charged with the crime. These laws fall on individuals not organizations.

And yet not ONE of these individuals has been charged with voter fraud, because not ONE instance of voter fraud happened as a result of their actions.

Belmont31R

12-14-10, 00:54

And yet not ONE of these individuals has been charged with voter fraud, because not ONE instance of voter fraud happened as a result of their actions.

That we know of.

Just like SEIU running the voting machines, and all the major polling places come up 7-8 points off the actual official vote tally despite them never being off more than 3 points in any previous election in the same districts.

Just like finding votes in peoples cars, on the side of the road in a ditch, recounting until their man wins, and then declare the election certified, ect.

I have little faith these issues will be fixed with the nature of politics today. I have no faith groups like ACORN will be held accountable. Even a federal judge ruled it unconstitutional to deny them tax payer funds. The DOJ gives a little slap on the wrist to people with billy clubs standing outside a polling location.

Yeah the justice system is working great....:rolleyes:

rickrock305

12-14-10, 01:07

That we know of.

The burden of proof is on you. You can't say it happened and yet not be able to provide one shred of evidence.

With all the scrutiny of ACORN, I'm sure if it happened we would have heard about it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008/oct/13/election-acorn-voter-fraud

Just like SEIU running the voting machines, and all the major polling places come up 7-8 points off the actual official vote tally despite them never being off more than 3 points in any previous election in the same districts.

Just like the Ken Blackwell and Diebold handing Bush the election in 2004

Just like finding votes in peoples cars, on the side of the road in a ditch, recounting until their man wins, and then declare the election certified, ect.

Like this???

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/2421595/investigation-into-trashed-voter-registrations?redirected=true

or this...

http://www.blogforarizona.com/blog/2010/08/republican-voter-fraud-green-scheme.html

or this...

http://sugarfreak.typepad.com/mobtownshank/2010/04/whaddaya-know-republican-voter-fraud.html

or this...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4992730.ece

or....

http://redwhitebluenews.com/?p=5029

or...

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/103690/california_republican_arrested_for_voter_fraud/

I have little faith these issues will be fixed with the nature of politics today.

I agree. Although I believe its the nature of politics in general. There have always been attempts by both sides to alter the vote, and there always will be.

I have no faith groups like ACORN will be held accountable.

Accountable for what, they did nothing wrong.

Even a federal judge ruled it unconstitutional to deny them tax payer funds.

Because the way Congress went about it was unconstitutional.

Belmont31R

12-14-10, 01:23

Sure Ive said a few times now there is fraud on both sides.

Still there is no national GOP organization that has the amount of charges against it (or its members) that democrat organizations have had.

BTW one of your links talks about the bogus charges against acorn when their members have been convicted of fraud charges numerous times. Its not bogus when they have been convicted or plead guilty to charges.

Any links to any comparable SOS projects?

The court also ruled, however, that if a subsequent review concluded that the voter was not entitled to vote in that precinct, then the provisional ballot would not be counted. In accordance with the Court of Appeals ruling, provisional ballots cast in the wrong precincts were not counted in Ohio's 2004 elections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Blackwell#Involvement_in_the_2004_U.S._Presidential_Election

Anything else I should know about "disenfranchising minority voters"?

Suwannee Tim

12-14-10, 05:55

Please name me one election stolen by Republicans in the last century. I'll name two stolen by Democrats, 2004, Washington Stage Governor, stolen for Christine Gregoire, 2008, US Senate in Minnesota, stolen for Al Franken. Forget Bush versus Gore 2000, Bush won, get over it.

I don't think anyone's saying "everybody does it" so you can cut the dramatic hyperbole.....

It's not hyperbole, it's mockery. I'm glad you didn't like it. As far as Democrats being less American than Republicans, I won't go that far but Democrat politicians routinely put their party's interest and their personal interest ahead of the national interest. That's another debate.

Suwannee Tim

12-14-10, 06:27

I don't think anyone's saying "everybody does it" so you can cut the dramatic hyperbole....

Another tactic used by the left is to silence the opposition. Here is an example. Complication tells me to shut up. Usually it is more sophisticated, Democrats intimidate Republicans into silence by calling them names like "bigot". It usually works. It never works on me. No, Complication I will not shut up. You shut up. How's that?

I quit these discussions when they begin to degenerate and this one has so I take my leave.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 09:26

Still there is no national GOP organization that has the amount of charges against it (or its members) that democrat organizations have had.

Any links to any comparable SOS projects?

If you check out the links I posted, there is a few in there. Specifically, Voters Outreach of America and also Nathan Sproul and his Lincoln Strategy and also the Young Political Majors.

Here are the links.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/2421595/investigation-into-trashed-voter-registrations?redirected=true

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4992730.ece

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/103690/california_republican_arrested_for_voter_fraud/

Here's another one...

http://redwhitebluenews.com/?p=5029

All of these people were doing the exact same things as ACORN employees have been charged with.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/tea-party-gop-groups-target-minorities-for-voter-suppression-schemes-106126373.html

BTW one of your links talks about the bogus charges against acorn when their members have been convicted of fraud charges numerous times. Its not bogus when they have been convicted or plead guilty to charges.

Most of the charges against ACORN have been bogus. I proved an example of it right here in this thread. You said ACORN "institutionalizes voter fraud". Yet they nor their members have been convicted or even charged with one instance of voter fraud.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 09:31

Are you really so far to the right that National Vanguard looks like a "lefty site"? :laugh:

NAZI's are lefties. What part of the 'socialist' in National Socialist escapes you?

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 09:35

Please name me one election stolen by Republicans in the last century. I'll name two stolen by Democrats, 2004, Washington Stage Governor, stolen for Christine Gregoire, 2008, US Senate in Minnesota, stolen for Al Franken. Forget Bush versus Gore 2000, Bush won, get over it.

It's not hyperbole, it's mockery. I'm glad you didn't like it. As far as Democrats being less American than Republicans, I won't go that far but Democrat politicians routinely put their party's interest and their personal interest ahead of the national interest. That's another debate.

And don't forget the voting machines from Republican districts going for a swim in lake Michigan.

Add Kennedy vs. Nixon to that list.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 09:37

rickrock305

12-14-10, 09:41

The OP mentioned the King Street Patriots...

What an honest lot they are...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-w-smith/right-wing-voter-suppress_b_706550.html

Photoshopping videos? Really? :rolleyes:

GermanSynergy

12-14-10, 09:43

The Huffington Post has the veracity of Radio Havana, and is probably more to the left.

The OP mentioned the King Street Patriots...

What an honest lot they are...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-w-smith/right-wing-voter-suppress_b_706550.html

Photoshopping videos? Really? :rolleyes:

rickrock305

12-14-10, 09:44

That's right. You can't charge an orginization without going to RICO and busting them up.

You also can't charge an organization for something they didn't do.

Sorry, but you're yet another victim of the right wing spin machine.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 09:45

The Huffington Post has the veracity of Radio Havana, and is probably more to the left.

Attack the messenger if you must, but what they are reporting is accurate and can be verified in plenty of other places.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 09:52

NAZI's are lefties. What part of the 'socialist' in National Socialist escapes you?

From Wikipedia...

The Nazi Party is generally described as being at the extreme or far right of the left-right political axis.[2] While the party incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right.

In fact the leftist political parties in Germany at the time were their enemies.

And if you really read about their political views at the time, it reminds me of the Tea Party of today a bit, for example the rampant nationalism and the complete opposition of liberalism and communism as well as their deliberate appeals to the working class.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 10:11

You quoted wikipedia. Seriously?....Wikipedia?

I mean, I can go and correct that for you.

And if you really read about their political views at the time, it reminds me of the Tea Party of today a bit, for example the rampant nationalism and the complete opposition of liberalism and communism as well as their deliberate appeals to the working class.

Tea Partiers ARE liberals in th eclassic sense. Modern Liberals are Progressive/scoio-fascists and have co-opted the phrase to cover their true intent. Much the same way you claim to be a moderate when you are clearly a leftist. A cursory review of your posting history will verify that. You are not forthwith enough to label yourself as you are. I am not ashamed of the conservative label. It is an honorable lable that encompases such people as Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan and by today's standards, John Kennedy. You remember Kennedy? That Democratic Nationalist Hawk that built up the military and cut taxes?

And now you are comparing the Tea Party to NAZIs? I see all the jack booted thuggery on the SEIU/ACORN side. Tell me how many Tea Partiers have beaten up thier opposition at a rally?

I think we can safely ignore everything you post from here on out as garbage.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 10:18

Since we are quoting Wikipedia, just this once for you:

Summary of contents
In the book, Goldberg argues that fascist movements were and are left-wing. He states that both modern liberalism and fascism descended from progressivism, and that prior to World War II, "fascism was widely viewed as a progressive social movement with many liberal and left-wing adherents in Europe and the United States".[2]

Goldberg writes that there was more to fascism than bigotry and genocide, and argues that bigotry and genocide were not so much a feature of Italian fascism, but rather of German Nazism, which was forced upon the Italian fascists "after the Nazis had invaded northern Italy and created a puppet government in Salò."[3]

He argues that over time, the term fascism has lost its original meaning and has descended to the level of being "a modern word for 'heretic,' branding an individual worthy of excommunication from the body politic", noting that in 1946 George Orwell described the word as no longer having any meaning except to signify "something not desirable".[4][4][5]

rickrock305

12-14-10, 10:22

You quoted wikipedia. Seriously?....Wikipedia?

I mean, I can go and correct that for you.

I think we can safely ignore everything you post from here on out as garbage.

It was just a quick example. Here are a handful of others.

Nice try, but you're simply wrong.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm

Myth: Hitler was a leftist.

Fact: Nearly all of Hitler's beliefs placed him on the far right.

Summary

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/nsdap.html

Hitler crushed the Nazi Party’s left, or socialist-oriented, wing in 1934

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/407190/Nazi-Party

THCDDM4

12-14-10, 10:34

To paint Hitler as either a common day leftist or rightist is just silly and a joke. He embodied both modern day extreme right and extreme left ideals.

It would be tantamount to likening Lincoln to todays republican party, which is poor at best.

The argument rages on, but both sides have a bias and cannot see things for what they are.

Hitler was not left nor right, he was an extremist of both poles.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 10:36

Tell me how many Tea Partiers have beaten up thier opposition at a rally?

http://www.mediaite.com/online/rand-paul-supporter-stomps-on-head-of-female-moveon-rep-in-pre-debate-scuffle/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5pdwTQ4xA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVD5pdS9EOw&feature=related

There's also Joseph Stack, the guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in Texas.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 10:40

Joeseph Stack was a leftist nutcase and not a tea partier.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

Yep...that sounds like a real, Jeffersonian Tea Partier!

One of your examples happened before the Tea Party existed.

In fact, there is no evidence any of those links are regarding Tea Partiers, much less related to Tea Party events.

Watching them was a waste of my time.

Rick, you are simply a liar and not to be believed.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 10:40

It is an honorable lable that encompases such people as Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan and by today's standards, John Kennedy. You remember Kennedy? That Democratic Nationalist Hawk that built up the military and cut taxes?

Goldwater and Reagan were both criminals. Reagan much more so than Goldwater. Or was Iran Contra just a vast liberal conspiracy that never happened? The CIA wasn't running drugs on Reagan's watch?

rickrock305

12-14-10, 10:45

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 10:51

You also can't charge an organization for something they didn't do.

Sorry, but you're yet another victim of the right wing spin machine.

Go and watch the Brietbart videos. Tape doesn't lie. ACORN is a corrupt, organization.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 10:52

Goldwater and Reagan were both criminals. Reagan much more so than Goldwater. Or was Iran Contra just a vast liberal conspiracy that never happened? The CIA wasn't running drugs on Reagan's watch?

Yep, you are a moderate all right Rick.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 10:53

One of your examples happened before the Tea Party existed.

In fact, there is no evidence any of those links are regarding Tea Partiers, much less related to Tea Party events.

Watching them was a waste of my time.

Rick, you are simply a liar and not to be believed.

Wait, a Rand Paul rally isn't a Tea Party event? :laugh: :rolleyes:

What exactly am I lying about?

Can we disagree politically without you resorting to childish name calling and weak attempts at belittling me? I know you're mad that I proved you wrong so many times, but lets try to keep the conversation at an adult level of discourse.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 10:54

Yep, you are a moderate all right Rick.

So Iran Contra never happened? The CIA wasn't running drugs? These are facts. This isnt some left wing conspiracy theory. This stuff has been proven and documented many times.

Face it, your hero was a criminal. And Reagonomics hasn't worked. Get over it.

500grains

12-14-10, 10:56

Goldwater and Reagan were both criminals.

Typical DU crap.

I doubt you are even a gun owner.

___

To others: Does M4carbine frequently get invaded by left wing loonies?

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 10:58

you really don't know a thing about my idealogy, please don't pretend to. i know it makes it much easier for you, but i just don't fit in your little box.

I think we have connected the dots by now rickrock305.

BTW, did you ever enlist?

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47109

rickrock305

12-14-10, 10:59

Typical DU crap.

I doubt you are even a gun owner.

___

To others: Does M4carbine frequently get invaded by left wing loonies?

There's nothing left wing about it. Its a simple fact. Reagan was involved in Iran Contra and the CIA was running drugs (amongst other things) to fund their little South American exploits and coups.

And Goldwater has some shady dealings with some mob type characters.

Whats left wing about reporting the facts?

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:00

So Iran Contra never happened? The CIA wasn't running drugs? These are facts. This isnt some left wing conspiracy theory. This stuff has been proven and documented many times.

Face it, your hero was a criminal. And Reagonomics hasn't worked. Get over it.

There is no proof the CIA was running drugs in Central America.

How much longer are you going to continue to deface this board with your lies and defame good men?

rickrock305

12-14-10, 11:01

I think we have connected the dots by now rickrock305.

BTW, did you ever enlist?

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47109

If you must know, I hit the age limit before my asshole recruiter could get his shit together. Its a sore subject. But I've found another opportunity to serve my country and I'm about halfway through the process of employment.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:03

There's nothing left wing about it. Its a simple fact. Reagan was involved in Iran Contra and the CIA was running drugs (amongst other things) to fund their little South American exploits and coups.

And Goldwater has some shady dealings with some mob type characters.

Whats left wing about reporting the facts?

About as factual as that total BS post you made above accusing Tea Partiers of beating people up and murdering people.

And to have the gall to call a communist nutjob murderer a Tea Partier just to smear decent, patrotic americans.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:04

If you must know, I hit the age limit before my asshole recruiter could get his shit together. Its a sore subject. But I've found another opportunity to serve my country and I'm about halfway through the process of employment.

What is the cut-off now? 39? 42?

rickrock305

12-14-10, 11:12

There is no proof the CIA was running drugs in Central America.

How much longer are you going to continue to deface this board with your lies and defame good men?

“In my 30-year history in the Drug Enforcement Administration and related agencies, the major targets of my investigations almost invariably turned out to be working for the CIA.”
Dennis Dayle, former chief of an elite DEA enforcement unit.

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/13035

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/nsaebb2.htm

"I have put thousands of Americans away for tens of thousands of years for less evidence for conspiracy with less evidence than is available against Ollie North and CIA people. . . . I personally was involved in a deep-cover case that went to the top of the drug world in three countries. The CIA killed it."

Former DEA Agent Michael Levine
CNBC-TV, October 8, 1996

"The connections piled up quickly. Contra planes flew north to the U.S., loaded with cocaine, then returned laden with cash. All under the protective umbrella of the United States Government. My informants were perfectly placed: one worked with the Contra pilots at their base, while another moved easily among the Salvadoran military officials who protected the resupply operation. They fed me the names of Contra pilots. Again and again, those names showed up in the DEA database as documented drug traffickers.

"When I pursued the case, my superiors quietly and firmly advised me to move on to other investigations."

Former DEA Agent Celerino Castillo
Powder Burns, 1992

"The Subcommittee found that the Contra drug links included:

* Involvement in narcotics trafficking by individuals associated with the Contra movement.

* Participation of narcotics traffickers in Contra supply operations through business relationships with Contra organizations.

* Provision of assistance to the Contras by narcotics traffickers, including cash, weapons, planes, pilots, air supply services and other materials, on a voluntary basis by the traffickers.

* Payments to drug traffickers by the US State Department of funds authorized by the Congress for humanitarian assistance to the Contras, in some cases after the traffickers had been indicted by federal law enforcement agencies on drug charges, in others while traffickers were under active investigation by these same agencies."

Senate Committee Report on Drugs,
Law Enforcement and Foreign Policy
chaired by Senator John F. Kerry

http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/CIAREPORT/contents.html

http://www.csun.edu/~hfspc002/news/cia.drug.html

Its all there if you care to read it.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 11:13

What is the cut-off now? 39? 42?

For what I wanted to do, its 28. And with all the people joining up right now, its next to impossible to get an age waiver.

You're trying REAL hard to smear me here aren't you? Problem is, its not gonna work. You're only making yourself look bad.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 11:15

About as factual as that total BS post you made above accusing Tea Partiers of beating people up and murdering people.

I never accused anyone of anything. You asked for examples of Tea Party folks attacking and beating up their opposition, and I provided a perfect example of Rand Paul supporters curb stomping a woman.

Gutshot John

12-14-10, 11:15

Please don't feed the trolls.

That's what the ignore list is for. :happy:

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:15

Let's see....Capitol Hill Blue is a hard leftist site.

You can always find made-up crap on questionable sites.

Can you find anything more mainstream?

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:16

I never accused anyone of anything. You asked for examples of Tea Party folks attacking and beating up their opposition, and I provided a perfect example of Rand Paul supporters curb stomping a woman.

Rand Paul != Tea Party.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 11:17

Let's see....Capitol Hill Blue is a hard leftist site.

You can always find made-up crap on questionable sites.

Can you find anything more mainstream?

Why don't you finish reading the post?

rickrock305

12-14-10, 11:18

Please don't feed the trolls.

That's what the ignore list is for. :happy:

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out factual inaccuracies, like Hitler was a leftist and ACORN is involved in voter fraud.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:19

Why don't you finish reading the post?

I did.

Let's take one quote for example and google it.

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22I+have+put+thousands+of+Americans+away+for+tens+of+thousands+of+years+for+less+evidence+for+conspiracy+with+less+evidence+than+is+available+against+Ollie+North+and+CIA+people.+.+.+.+I+personally+was+involved+in+a+deep-cover+case+that+went+to+the+top+of+the+d&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGIT_en

Not one of those hits is a reputable source. All of them are quack sites.

rickrock305

12-14-10, 11:21

I did.

No, you didn't. There's far too much information there for you to have read it in 2 minutes.

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:21

Tell us Rick, who do you think was behind 9/11?

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:22

No, you didn't. There's far too much information there for you to have read it in 2 minutes.

I can read urls and see what is a blog site.

Please stop projecting.

Who do you think was behind 9/11?

Heavy Metal

12-14-10, 11:26

Rand Paul != Tea Party.

I remember this incident now! She rushed a Senatorial Candidate!

It shows what Valle was doing when the Paul supporters grabbed her. No one chased her around the car. She was never in front of the car. As you can see in the video, Valle reached in the candidate’s window with her “RepubliCorp” sign and shoved it in his face. Several supporters in Paul shirts have her surrounded at that point, and a man in a suit is the first person to actually intervene physically. It’s hard to tell from the video, but it could be that the man in the suit was with Paul’s security staff.

Toward the end of the video, you see several Paul supporters asking a police officer to come intervene. It was Paul supporters who told Profitt to back off. It was Paul supporters who brought the police.