View Full Version : AAR:VSM 1 Day Basic Handgun Dec 11 2010
We have some pics to go thru this is just to get started.
This is the class
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65524&referrerid=3026
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%2012-11-2010/PC100839.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%2012-11-2010/100_2881.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%2012-11-2010/PC100841.jpg
VSM: 1 day basic handgun class.
December 11th 2010
Main Instructor: Joe Barnsfather assisted by Barry Foster.
Range: Knob Creek
Total in attendance: 13
Aim small miss small.
There are no small targets only near and far targets.
The weather for the day could best be described as Brisk. We started the day at 9AM and it was about 40 degrees on the range. There was a wonderful sheet of ice right in the middle of the area that we all knew would be perfect later in the day when it was time to go prone.
Many of the people attending the class were novice shooters and it was interesting to see the different levels of equipment.
All guns in attendance were Glocks, 1911s and a few of us with M&Ps, except for one gentleman who felt the need to be different and carry an XD45.
Gear ranged from basic Kydex holsters and mag pouches on a normal belt up though full rigs like I was wearing with dump pouches, etc. No one had any real problems with their gear or performing any of the drills, which just goes to show that it is less about having all the high-speed low drag gear and more about learning how to use the tools at hand.
We started the day off with the basics. The 4 rules were covered, the importance of which were underscored when one member of the class had an AD while clearing his gun at the start of the day.
Before we made our guns hot we went to the line and Joe got into discussing trigger manipulation and how it is the most important aspect of accuracy. We often see instructors focus on speed and fancy methods for doing this or that. But the focus here was on making sure that every round you send down range goes exactly where you wanted it to go. Barry made the comment that “ever round you send downrange has a lawyer attached to it”. A lot of time was spent on this. Not only making sure that our rounds hit where they should but also why it was so important. We then went on to cover sight picture and how best to line up the sights on the target.
We were asked if we knew what type of sight picture our guns had, Point of aim point of impact or 6 o’clock. Only myself and one or two others raised their hands. And I was wrong about mine!
All guns were checked and we were shown the proper way to make sure our weapons were clear. Mr. Fingers do not want to be in front of Mr. Bullet!
We then moved into Dry firing. To a lot of people this sounds boring, but remember this was a basic class. And frankly a skill that is often overlooked by even experienced shooters. Dry firing teaches us to manipulate the trigger, which means we can put out rounds where we need them to be.
This was a point where a big flaw in my kit showed itself. My M&P has a magazine disconnect safety. Which meant 2 things.
1: Joe had asked that we remove our magazines to show the guns were completely empty while doing dry firing. This was obviously impossible.
2: It made it a big more difficult to manipulate the gun for repeated dry firing.
Finally we covered drawing and the mistakes people make here. Common problems include sweeping the gun up, pointing the gun at the supporting hand while drawing and throwing the strong side elbow out while drawing.
After a lot of Dry firing and draw practice with the instructors coming around to watch us all we went back to the covered area and made our guns hot.
Starting from the 5 yard line we were all asked to put a single round in the center square on the head of a Vickers target. To my shock I actually got in the black and pretty damn close to the middle. Being a beginner’s class many of us had trouble with some of the followup shots and for a few it became obvious that some of their sights were not indexed properly. One gentleman was shooting amazing groups but they were consistently about 2 inches low and a half-inch to the left at 5 yards.
We moved on to shoot a number of drills at this point. Including the test also known as the 10-10-10 drill. Which is 10 shots at 10 yards in 10 seconds. I wish I could say that we were all performing great and had amazed Joe and ourselves with our great shooting. Of course I am an honest man so I can’t say that.
While there were some shooters there who were doing amazing, a number of us had problems, mostly due to trigger control. It came to the point where Mr. Barnsfather called us all in to have what I like to refer to as a “Come to Jesus” talk. Every person there was capable of being a great shooter, however some of us were not performing to the level that we should have been. He had no problem telling us just that. Joe didn’t say we all suck and to go home and he didn’t treat us like children as some instructors have been known to do. He looked us all in the eye and essentially told us he expected better and that we could do a lot better.
I am happy to say that his talk had the desired impact on the class. After this we performed markedly better in all aspects. We were not out there doing flips while shooting or making off hand, unsupported shots at 50 yards, but we were putting the shots in the black and doing what we needed to do.
The day was made more interesting when it started to rain around 11:00. Shooting in nice dry weather on a flat range is one thing. Shooting in the cold rain in ground that you can barely move around on is a whole different ballgame.
Other drills for the day included but were not limited too:
*Shooting while advancing and moving away from the target
*Tap/rack/bang drills
*Clearing a double feed
*Strong and weak side shooting
*Strong and weak side unsupported shooting.
We went till around 5PM at which point we were all cold, wet, and starting to get fatigued. We had a bit of a discussion when I think the most important point was brought to all of our attentions. All day we had focused on the front of the target. On that very small 1 inch black square on the head and the 5.5-inch circle on the chest. But at this point they turned a few of the targets around. Even the worst target (mine) had every single shot in the center of mass. I don’t think there was a single shot the entire day outside of the C zone on a standard target or off the White on the Vickers target.
Joe was asking more of us than most instructors. He was riding us hard. But the point was this. If he is out somewhere with his family and something happens. He wants to know that if one of us is there he could rely on us to back him up and not be a liability. The overriding theme for the day was aim small, miss small. And I think by the time we were done, everyone understood that concept a lot more.
I am sure I missed a lot here. Anyone and everyone please feel free to add and/or correct anything.
And the photos!
The obligatory photos of me.
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class1.jpg
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class3.jpg
Joe Barnsfather showing us his long range pistol skills. :D
Seriously though here he is showing us sight picture and how it is the same no matter where the target is.
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class6.jpg
A couple of our "terrible" targets.
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class8.jpg
In this one you can see how wonderful the weather made it.
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class10.jpg
And a few of the class.
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class2.jpg
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class4.jpg
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class5.jpg
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class7.jpg
http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/class9.jpg
Being a beginner’s class many of us had trouble with some of the followup shots and for a few it became obvious that some of their sights were not indexed properly. One gentleman was shooting amazing groups but they were consistently about 2 inches low and a half-inch to the left at 5 yards.
That was me :p
Joe is ordering me a brand-new set of Heine Ledge Sights that should hopefully fix my mis-matched sights problem. (The fact that I installed them myself probably didn't help much either! Joe will be putting the new ones on for me)
This was my first class, and my experience was phenomenal. I'm looking forward to many more classes with Joe in the future. Now I just need to get my carbine gear in order so I can come to the class in Jan.
-Doug
The other guys gave a great synopsis, so most of what I would have said about the class, echos them.
I wasn't sure what to expect as this was my first formal weapons training. I'm an instructor myself, in the IT field, and it was good to be on the other side of the learning process for a change. Joe's command of the class and mastery of the materials made for a fun and enlightening day.
I didn't know I was capable of shooting better, and judging by the performance I gave in the beginning of the class, I had my doubts that I could improve by the days end. Joe and Barry's firm, but reassuring guidance, helped me tighten up my groups tremendously in the afternoon...and I was feeling much better about myself before we called it a day.
Any day at the range is alot of fun, but these guys really gave us a workout mentally and physically. We went from freezing temperatures to rainy and muddy...and still they had us improving our shots. I can only imagine how our groups might have looked under ideal conditions.
I feel lucky to have had the opportunity to attend this class, and look forward to participating in Joe's carbine class on January 8, 2011.
Thanks Joe and Barry!
Sincerely,
Chris Huss
I wanted to add a couple more things now that I have a few minutes.
First off an apology. I listed Barry's last name as Laws. His name is Foster. There is another Barry laws in the area and for whatever reason I put his name down. So sorry Barry.
Now a few lessons learned.
Range doesn't matter when you are shooting. Yes it can be harder to hold the gun right on target. But with correct trigger manipulation and learning how to control your shooting, you can hit a target at 50 yards just as easily as you can at 5.
We are responsible for our actions. It is easy to take shooting for granted but what we do is dangerous and should never be taken lightly.
Gear is less important than skill. I think we all know this to some extent but it is good to re-learn sometimes.
The more you learn the less you know. What I mean by this is that as you learn, you start to realize how limited your knowledge is. Or as Joe likes to say: You don't know what you don't know.
Those of us around here are very lucky to have such a great instructor nearby. I spent a lot of years wasting money on guns and junk I didn't need. If I had found out about Joe and Superior Firearms 10 years ago, I would be in a much better place.
Practice is not enough. Practicing things the right way is what is required.
Shooting stuff is fun.
Shooting stuff in the cold and rain is still fun.
Well said.
I feel exactly the same, if I would have met Joe and Barry years ago, it would have saved me alot of money...or I might have spent the same...just in the right direction. We are lucky to have such a great resource here in my home town. That goes for Knob Creek, too.
It's great to have a trusted adviser and friend like Superior Firearms.
Thanks guys! :laugh:
Chris
Joe and Barry are good dudes and put on a good class.
Looks like everyone had a good time and learned something.
C4
Well said.
I feel exactly the same, if I would have met Joe and Barry years ago, it would have saved me alot of money...or I might have spent the same...just in the right direction. We are lucky to have such a great resource here in my home town. That goes for Knob Creek, too.
It's great to have a trusted adviser and friend like Superior Firearms.
Thanks guys! :laugh:
Chris
Thanks
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%2012-11-2010/100_2880-1.jpg
That was me :p
Joe is ordering me a brand-new set of Heine Ledge Sights that should hopefully fix my mis-matched sights problem. (The fact that I installed them myself probably didn't help much either! Joe will be putting the new ones on for me)
This was my first class, and my experience was phenomenal. I'm looking forward to many more classes with Joe in the future. Now I just need to get my carbine gear in order so I can come to the class in Jan.
-Doug
We would love to have you.
You are a great student and add value to the class.
Looks like a good course. If it ain't raining, you ain't training!
Looks like a good course. If it ain't raining, you ain't training!
You got it.
Jay Cunningham
12-14-10, 19:25
Great job fellas!
:laugh:
superr.stu
12-14-10, 20:54
This class made me exited like a school-girl at a Justin Bieber concert. While the others have covered just about everything, here are a couple of my thoughts.
Joe and Barry have really mastered positive criticism, and reinforcement. You could almost be crapping yourself on moment and smiling the next. They're also so engaging that I really didn't even notice the cold and rain much, until we were all packing up to leave.
The bar was set very high before we even first walked down range, and it was very clear that the standard wasn't going to change. period! They gave the whole class 100% and they expected the same from every last person there.
I didn't know I could shoot as well as I did at class. But I came home not thinking about making 10 shots, I came home thinking about missing the 11th.
Class was fantastic, I had a blast on the range, had a blast hanging out with everyone, and I'm looking forward to round 2.
If you ever get a change to take a class with Joe and Barry or to stop by their shop, jump at the chance, you won't regret a minute of it. (other than when Joe stands behind you and points out how bad you effed up that 5yd shot :p)
Thank you again Joe, Barry, and the VSM program for giving us this great opportunity.
-Stu
This class made me exited like a school-girl at a Justin Bieber concert. While the others have covered just about everything, here are a couple of my thoughts.
Joe and Barry have really mastered positive criticism, and reinforcement. You could almost be crapping yourself on moment and smiling the next. They're also so engaging that I really didn't even notice the cold and rain much, until we were all packing up to leave.
The bar was set very high before we even first walked down range, and it was very clear that the standard wasn't going to change. period! They gave the whole class 100% and they expected the same from every last person there.
I didn't know I could shoot as well as I did at class. But I came home not thinking about making 10 shots, I came home thinking about missing the 11th.
Class was fantastic, I had a blast on the range, had a blast hanging out with everyone, and I'm looking forward to round 2.
If you ever get a change to take a class with Joe and Barry or to stop by their shop, jump at the chance, you won't regret a minute of it. (other than when Joe stands behind you and points out how bad you effed up that 5yd shot :p)
Thank you again Joe, Barry, and the VSM program for giving us this great opportunity.
-Stu
Thank you
That was me :p
Joe is ordering me a brand-new set of Heine Ledge Sights that should hopefully fix my mis-matched sights problem. (The fact that I installed them myself probably didn't help much either! Joe will be putting the new ones on for me)
This was my first class, and my experience was phenomenal. I'm looking forward to many more classes with Joe in the future. Now I just need to get my carbine gear in order so I can come to the class in Jan.
-Doug
Your sights are in.
We have some pics to go thru this is just to get started.
This is the class
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=65524&referrerid=3026
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%2012-11-2010/PC100839.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%2012-11-2010/100_2881.jpg
http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%2012-11-2010/PC100841.jpg
Being a novice coming into this class I was absolutely amazed at what could be presented and learned in one day under less than ideal conditions. Although when you stop and look at the level of instruction that was given to us, it's easier to understand how you can come into this class and not only learn to shoot that day, but take it with you and repeat it sometime later with very similar results. My hats off to Joe and Barry for the level of instruction and respect given to each student, and one on one attention when they saw fit. I highly recommend this class to anyone, especially if you think you can shoot now, I'm positive that any one person can come away with a better understanding of their level of skill from this class. A special thanks to Larry Vickers for allowing Joe Barnsfather to teach his method of shooting. I am anxiously awaiting the next handgun class, be it novice or a level two. I'm sure that I will attend either with an open mind. Thanks again,
Jon.
Being a novice coming into this class I was absolutely amazed at what could be presented and learned in one day under less than ideal conditions. Although when you stop and look at the level of instruction that was given to us, it's easier to understand how you can come into this class and not only learn to shoot that day, but take it with you and repeat it sometime later with very similar results. My hats off to Joe and Barry for the level of instruction and respect given to each student, and one on one attention when they saw fit. I highly recommend this class to anyone, especially if you think you can shoot now, I'm positive that any one person can come away with a better understanding of their level of skill from this class. A special thanks to Larry Vickers for allowing Joe Barnsfather to teach his method of shooting. I am anxiously awaiting the next handgun class, be it novice or a level two. I'm sure that I will attend either with an open mind. Thanks again,
Jon.
Thanks Jon.
SpookyPistolero
02-17-11, 20:00
This is definitely in my neighborhood, I'd love to take part in an upcoming class or two (pistol or carbine). I see on your site that I missed the next one on the 19th, are you able to say when the next class will be?
This is definitely in my neighborhood, I'd love to take part in an upcoming class or two (pistol or carbine). I see on your site that I missed the next one on the 19th, are you able to say when the next class will be?
This is the next 3 for you.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=72993&referrerid=3026
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=73003&referrerid=3026
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=74012&referrerid=3026
SpookyPistolero
02-18-11, 19:36
Oops, read the site and not the forum! Thanks for the links. I'm gonna try to get off work for the March 12th class...
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