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texasyid
12-13-10, 19:53
I am trying to gain some knowledge from this board. I am looking at a SR-25 with the 16'' barrel. A lot of coin but I want one. Why or why not should I purchase one? Not trying to start a thread war just trying to gain some knowledge. Thanks in advance

Belmont31R
12-13-10, 20:09
What is your intended shooting with it? Firing schedule and range? I would not use any AR based 308 as a CQB gun doing lots of drills with it.



If you are looking for precision at long range the Larue OBR is probably a better bet.



I use mine like a large recce, and so far its worked 100% in that role. Another member used one like a CQB gun, and it went down on him. If you just want to blast rounds get a FAL since parts are easier to come by and cheaper. Plus with the adjustable gas block you can tune to it to weaker (cheap) rounds. The SR25's, and KAC's gun in general are tuned to run with US military grade ammo so keep that in mind.


Is it worth the 5k? That is in the eye of the beholder but so far Im 100% happy with mine. It shoots great accuracy wise, and has not had a hiccup with spec ammo, and only one failure with Herters steel case where it didnt lock the bolt back. Ive shot around 200rds of Herters, and it only failed that once. With PMC, DAG, and Federal XM80 its been 100% as well as various match loads from Hornady, Black Hills, Federal, Lapua, and Remington. The best group Ive shot with it was .899 MOA 10 shots at 100 with a 4X optic.


The OBR is a really good gun, too, but setup more for precision with the 20 MOA built in rail, and with a carbine stock you have to use some sort of riser. Larue has the RISR for the CTR now, and a few people have had good results with it. Id really not want to have to add a contraption to the stock just to use most optics, though.


Last thing is KAC uses 3/4x24 threads on the muzzle so finding aftermarket muzzle devices can be tricky. Surefure has a can mount flash hider out now, and should be coming out with a brake, too. AAC has some mounts for it. Standard US 308 muzzle threads are 5/8x24, and is what most muzzle devices for 30's are made for.

texasyid
12-13-10, 20:24
Larue OBR is probably a better bet. Thanks I will check that out. I really just want one for my collection and do not intend to use it except to enjoy it at the range. I really miss my Belgium preban FAL and I think the SR-25 would go a long way to filling the gap.

Belmont31R
12-14-10, 00:21
Thanks I will check that out. I really just want one for my collection and do not intend to use it except to enjoy it at the range. I really miss my Belgium preban FAL and I think the SR-25 would go a long way to filling the gap.




Its definately a lot of fun to shoot. Where at in TX are you at? Im around Austin/Cedar Park if you are in the area and want to get some trigger time with one first. I bought an LMT MWS, and then shot an EMC. I sold the MWS, and now have had the EMC for a few months with over 1600rds through it.

OTO27
12-14-10, 01:18
Belmont, you said on your first post that some one used their SR25 in CQB and it whent down. Could you elaborate on that please? I am intersted in an SR25 EMC as well and would like to hear on this. I intend to use it like a recce as well but also want the thing to be able to handle CQB rate of fire.

texasyid
12-14-10, 08:09
TX are you at?Thanks for the offer but I am in West Texas.

Buck
12-14-10, 08:36
The latest versions of the SR25 carbines that are being produced by KAC are exceptional… They are not cheap, but the engineering, QC and materials used are second to none… If I was in the market for a 7.62 AR, I would look no further than the KAC Battle Rifle…

It has the ability to go from CQB to precision with the simple twist of a short dot…

B

Nevermiss
12-14-10, 15:21
I'm in the same boat.

I've got a JP-LRP 07 18" that is built like a tank and shoots great, but there's just something about the SR-25 EMC that makes me need to have one!

If the S&B 1-8X turns out to be a quality optic and comes priced around $2.5K it will go on top.

I'm also on the waiting list for the AAC 762 SDN can which may be fun to run on the EMC as well.

2011 will be a fun year!

ALCOAR
12-14-10, 21:18
I'm in the same boat.

I've got a JP-LRP 07 18" that is built like a tank and shoots great, but there's just something about the SR-25 EMC that makes me need to have one!

If the S&B 1-8X turns out to be a quality optic and comes priced around $2.5K it will go on top.

I'm also on the waiting list for the AAC 762 SDN can which may be fun to run on the EMC as well.

2011 will be a fun year!

The EMC w. a SB and AAC will run close to $9,000.....I honestly don't care if it shoots freaking laser beams and plasma balls, that is just ridiculous for one gun w/o a Happy switch or collector value.

I never complain about price tags either...I either buy something or shut up about it but that figure is aw inspiring. Wonder how we ever got by before:eek:

taliv
12-14-10, 22:43
by way of comparison, consider a custom bolt gun from GAP, surgeon, etc, with quality optics and suppressor is similarly north of $8k.

compare parts count between the two
compare how much engineering/R&D $ must have gone into each
compare how many machining operations are involved in fabricating each

i'm not saying the KAC is a bargain at that price...

ALCOAR
12-14-10, 22:53
More power to whomever ends up w. the above described rig, to each his own:)

Some companies I guess just seem to stomach the R&D costs better because KAC and SB certainly are not the only makers of fantastic proprietary kit in their respective markets.

taliv
12-14-10, 23:01
i'm way out of my lane of course, and speculating wildly, but my guess is that those other vendors (also offering high quality at half the price) spread their dev costs over far more units sold. probably by several orders of magnitude.

theoak
03-31-11, 20:31
I'm resurrecting this thread rather than start a new one...

I came across a pre-ban Knight's SR-25 lower with a clone SR-25 EMC upper (supposedly built by GAP with a Bartlein SS barrel).

The rifle is used, but it didn't look too bad upon inspection. Is it worth $5,000?

Belmont31R
03-31-11, 23:46
I'm resurrecting this thread rather than start a new one...

I came across a pre-ban Knight's SR-25 lower with a clone SR-25 EMC upper (supposedly built by GAP with a Bartlein SS barrel).

The rifle is used, but it didn't look too bad upon inspection. Is it worth $5,000?




For 5k I would just get a EMC. KAC is using top notch barrels from places like Obermeyer anyways which is a brand GAP uses, and KAC is more in tune with modern 308 AR development like the enlarged ejection port, sand cut cut carrier, URX rail, ambi lower, ect.

Belmont31R
03-31-11, 23:49
More power to whomever ends up w. the above described rig, to each his own:)

Some companies I guess just seem to stomach the R&D costs better because KAC and SB certainly are not the only makers of fantastic proprietary kit in their respective markets.




SB has no equal when it comes to optics. Hensoldt has better eye box and edge resolution but lack the user friendly features like reticle selection, zero stop, ect.


I think the EMC is over priced for what you get but theres no one else who makes a 8.XXlb 308 AR with the features and accuracy. If you want better accuracy or a cheaper price is means more weight and less features like the ambi lower.

ALCOAR
04-01-11, 00:59
I obviously love EMC's and I equally respect SB...my above replies were in no way meant to degrade the stellar products both those entities happen to be, but rather just point out that $9k for a civilian rifle and optic is....:confused:


I'm resurrecting this thread rather than start a new one...

I came across a pre-ban Knight's SR-25 lower with a clone SR-25 EMC upper (supposedly built by GAP with a Bartlein SS barrel).

The rifle is used, but it didn't look too bad upon inspection. Is it worth $5,000?

No way....that sounds like a $3k rifle honestly, I would be all over a EMR or EMC for $5k

Belmont31R
04-01-11, 02:44
I obviously love EMC's and I equally respect SB...my above replies were in no way meant to degrade the stellar products both those entities happen to be, but rather just point out that $9k for a civilian rifle and optic is....:confused:



No way....that sounds like a $3k rifle honestly, I would be all over a EMR or EMC for $5k




The EMR is about ~800 less than the EMC. No barrel dimpling or flash hider, A2 stock instead of carbine with SOPMOD, ect.



I used to shoot ATA trap with guys that spent 15k+ on a shotgun. 8-9k on a precision gun with world class optics doesnt ring my bell. Sure its a lot...but theres worse things to spend money on.

Ak44
04-01-11, 02:46
The EMR is about ~800 less than the EMC. No barrel dimpling or flash hider, A2 stock instead of carbine with SOPMOD, ect.



I used to shoot ATA trap with guys that spent 15k+ on a shotgun. 8-9k on a precision gun with world class optics doesnt ring my bell. Sure its a lot...but theres worse things to spend money on.

Dear lord....if I spent $15K on something it better be a select fire gun.

Belmont31R
04-01-11, 02:51
Dear lord....if I spent $15K on something it better be a select fire gun.




http://perazzi.com/Pages/en_perazzi_home_page_inglese.aspx




I visited their showroom, and they were cool as ****. Nothing like being 16YO and having the guy there telling you to go handle whatever they had...50k shotguns no problem. They do 12, 20, 28, 410 sets that start north of 200k.

Ak44
04-01-11, 03:02
http://perazzi.com/Pages/en_perazzi_home_page_inglese.aspx




I visited their showroom, and they were cool as ****. Nothing like being 16YO and having the guy there telling you to go handle whatever they had...50k shotguns no problem. They do 12, 20, 28, 410 sets that start north of 200k.

Bel what's it like to be rich? lol

Belmont31R
04-01-11, 03:06
Bel what's it like to be rich? lol




Ha. I started trap with an 870 I still have, then got a Browning Bt-99, and then then a Beretta 682X trap. Never had a Perazzi. Lots of guys used them, though. That and Ljutic, Krieger, Kolar, Seitz, ect.

theoak
04-01-11, 07:46
I obviously love EMC's and I equally respect SB...my above replies were in no way meant to degrade the stellar products both those entities happen to be, but rather just point out that $9k for a civilian rifle and optic is....:confused:



No way....that sounds like a $3k rifle honestly, I would be all over a EMR or EMC for $5k

It's basically an EMC clone, however with a pre-ban lower, it has none of the ambi features of the newer KAC lowers. Living in a ban state, it's the closest I'm going to get to an EMC (unless I buy one and put an A2 stock + Battlecomp on it).

For $5,000, I was almost thinking of getting a GAP-10 with an 18" barrel + a NF 2.5-10x. (and I'll still have $1,000 left over)

3kids1gun
04-10-11, 18:06
I went down this road myself and learned something very basic; these rifles no matter what they cost are pretty heavy for what is supposed to be a Carbine. This particular one is over 8 pounds before you put anything on it. Mine ended up tipping the scale at 11.5 pounds after putting a Leupold MRT on it.

Then there is the ballistic issue; shooting a 308 out of a 16 inch barrel leaves you with the performance of a 300 Savage.

After it was all said and done I went back to an M1A with a 22 inch barrel. It is just over ten pounds with the same scope but at least I am getting 308 ballistics.

Belmont31R
04-10-11, 18:16
Its a carbine not a rifle.



I think it fits well in the capacity the 308 was designed to be used...out to 800 meters.



With a longer barrel you can stretch out the range a bit but at those ranges you are stretching to there are many better calibers. Our Army finally figured this out as have the brits. A 308 semi auto for closer in work, maintain the same manual of arms as the standard issue carbine, and still have a gun capable of short to medium range hits. The 308 carbines are not replacements for serious long range guns...both the brits and the USA have gone to magnum bolt actions for that role. The two make a good pair.


If you wanted a longer barrel there is the KAC EMR, OBR, MWS, ect. The EMC is a compact match rifle designed to be used close in and out to reasonable distances. I have no issues but myself shooting gongs at 750.

3kids1gun
04-10-11, 18:25
Good luck at 800 meters. It would be an unusual shot for a "Carbine". And you would have even more poor terminal effect at that range with a 16 inch barrel provided you hit anything.

Belmont31R
04-10-11, 18:26
Good luck at 800 meters. It would be an unusual shot for a "Carbine". And you would have even more poor terminal effect at that range with a 16 inch barrel provided you hit anything.





lol ok. What 16" 308's capable of sub MOA 10 shot groups have you shot to that distance?


Wanna go stand out there?

3kids1gun
04-10-11, 18:31
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

ALCOAR
04-11-11, 14:09
lol ok. What 16" 308's capable of sub MOA 10 shot groups have you shot to that distance?


Wanna go stand out there?

Only the people that actually researched...aka shot guns, rather than bullshit on the silly internet ...and compared a 16" true match grade precision barrel to a comparable 18" or 20" one can tell you how ignorant by in large the vast majority of the AR world is to the 16"/Recce/Recon precision option.

It doesn't matter if it's a 16" .308 or 5.56, people have no clue and that is perfectly fine, let em tote their 14lb + SDMR, DMR, or even one of my beloved SPR's.

I see no reason to ever own a precision AR in a length over 16" given I'm using a Rock or Krieger type blank.

I can promise that a .308 16" gun can earn medal past 1k with shooter and load present.....and I equally can promise a 16" 5.56 gun can earn it's medal past 700yds given shooter and load are present.

If you need more than 1K from a .308 than your really playing from behind in a big way....get a longer barreled true bolt or another SA in .260rem or 6.5 creedmoor.

For some it's time to let go of their preconceived notions about this topic and leave your 20" dinosaur at home.

carbinero
04-11-11, 14:21
There are 2 reasons, but of course these are not your concern here: shooter comfort, and bullet performance. When people argue for longer length, these 2 criteria are often unspoken and perhaps sometimes subconscious, although a concern nonetheless...and have nothing to do with accuracy. ETA: my comment is NOT directed at Belmont, just a general reflection.

titus7
04-13-11, 21:22
Good luck at 800 meters. It would be an unusual shot for a "Carbine". And you would have even more poor terminal effect at that range with a 16 inch barrel provided you hit anything.

Wow! :lol: what rock did u come out of

sinister
04-13-11, 21:49
600 yards (four E-types to the right of the 600-yard KD bull target under the "4" board):

http://i29.tinypic.com/30a6tfn.jpg%5Dhttp://i29.tinypic.com/30a6tfn.jpg

Just playing around (9X, no sling, shooting off a cardboard box):

http://i29.tinypic.com/148kldv.jpg%5Dhttp://i29.tinypic.com/148kldv.jpg

Lightweight 7.62 AR-10 carbine:

http://i28.tinypic.com/1581jco.jpg%5Dhttp://i28.tinypic.com/1581jco.jpg

ALCOAR
04-13-11, 23:26
Great looking LW precision 7.62..that's generally the definition of an oxymoron in my book. I think that is why the EMC is such a fantastic rifle and is in it's own unique class among all the current 7.62s that are clearly no skinny bunch. It's tough to make em light and still have em wring out the accuracy in the LR dept. Why I giggle with the recent PredatAR or whatever it's called talk....that gun cannot escape it's own spec's, or basically it cannot magically beef it's barrel profile diameter or the material it's made out of on command. It's a hunting rifle..plain and simple. The EMC pulls off the LW in a true combat rifle built to sustain heavier volumes of firing.

Anyway, sweet range and rifle...thanks for sharing:)