View Full Version : Who buys Gold and Silver?
Anyone here invest in Gold and Silver?
C4
Anyone here invest in Gold and Silver?
C4
Not now.
"Gold has never been worth more. Now buy mine!"
what do you want to know?
Complication
12-13-10, 20:42
I know a bunch of people here are probably Glenn Beck fans, but the Goldline stuff has always struck me as an obvious scam:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/GoldlineGlennBeck4.jpg
I say if you're going to invest in gold or silver, invest in gold or silver, not in coins.
willowofwisp
12-13-10, 20:43
I know my grandpa invests in silver, one of the coolest things ever is handling those silver bars.
militarymoron
12-13-10, 21:18
my wife bought some gold and silver a few years ago. sold it a few months ago at 70% profit.
I know a bunch of people here are probably Glenn Beck fans, but the Goldline stuff has always struck me as an obvious scam:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/GoldlineGlennBeck4.jpg
I say if you're going to invest in gold or silver, invest in gold or silver, not in coins.
Good god man, the free market is not a "scam."
But I love your exhortations to "open-mindedness," lol
I've invested in 1/10 oz. American Gold Eagles and 1 oz. American Silver Eagles. Picked up the gold when it was around $780 an ounce and sold some last week when it broke $1400, picked up the silver when it was $15 an ounce or got it from my grandfather's estate, and sold some last week when it broke $30.
rickrock305
12-13-10, 22:55
I say if you're going to invest in gold or silver, invest in gold or silver, not in coins.
Most people's investments in gold and silver are in the form of coins. It is gold/silver. And some coins are actually a better investment than raw gold due to their collectible factor.
I invest in gold and silver, but not in physical form.
thopkins22
12-13-10, 23:40
Gold is at an all time high...silver isn't. Pick.
I'd look at some gold and silver mining stocks rather than the commodities themselves right now considering how expensive they are. Agriculture looks solid too.
Become a miner/farmer.
rickrock305
12-13-10, 23:44
Yea, I wouldn't say physical gold is a great investment at these prices. If you're buying at these prices, its much more of a gamble.
Silver is most definitely a better option right now. But its a bit more volatile than gold.
The_War_Wagon
12-14-10, 00:07
Anyone here invest in Gold and Silver?
C4
Not "invest" - I buy it as insurance. Same as I buy ammo.
bubble? what bubble?...
http://www.usfunds.com/media/images/investor-alert/2010-12-10/COMM-GoldPerfBullMkts-042110.gif
I know a bunch of people here are probably Glenn Beck fans, but the Goldline stuff has always struck me as an obvious scam:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/GoldlineGlennBeck4.jpg
I say if you're going to invest in gold or silver, invest in gold or silver, not in coins.
are you really that blind to think GB and a company selling gold is purely scam ?
I bet you do own some ocean front in Arizona though ! sold to you by your smart friends who steered you clear from gold
back in the late 70s early 80s period I tripled my money in gold ! way before GB was around telling people to buy gold
and coins are safer ! man you really need to get some new guidance
variablebinary
12-14-10, 02:13
I own some bullion that is worth far more than I paid for it.
I prefer physical gold over certificates, due to rampant speculation that gold certificates have been over sold, and exceed actual supplies, resulting in further gold spikes, and hording among so-called gold vigilantes.
montanadave
12-14-10, 05:20
It is my understanding that gold coins (e.g. South African Kruggerrands, American Gold Eagles, Canadian Gold Maple Leafs, etc.) are considered "collectibles" by the IRS and, if held for longer than one year, are subject to a capital gains tax of 28 percent, markedly higher than the current 15 percent capital gains tax on many alternative investment incomes. And I believe there are new tax provisions which require gold dealers to submit a Form 1099 on transactions in excess of $600.00 starting in 2012, thus making it more difficult for folks trading gold and silver coins/bullion to hide income from the IRS.
I'm not a tax accountant, but if looking at gold (or silver) as simply a commodities hedge in an investment portfolio, it appears you'd be better off to invest in precious metals by owning shares in a gold ETF, commodities mutual fund, or mining stock rather than actual physical gold, as the tax rate is considerably less.
On the other hand, if you want gold as a hedge against TEOTWAWKI, I'd go with the coins because, in that particular scenario, I'm guessing that the IRS is going to have a hard time processing all those 1099s, what with the zombie hordes roaming the streets and all.
:sarcastic:
Business_Casual
12-14-10, 06:16
Well said Montana.
I also don't believe it is so easy to triple your money, due to fees and taxes.
B_C
ForTehNguyen
12-14-10, 08:03
bought a bunch when silver was $13-15 and gold when it was $950. How would they know what I paid for it originally? I didnt fill out any forms when I bought them. I also invested in some metals exploration and uranium mining stocks, made some nice gains.
taxing legal tender? :sarcastic:
Rmplstlskn
12-14-10, 08:21
Yeah, in gold, back when I could afford it... Back when it was about $270 an ounce!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I sold it all when it got to $600+ a several years back. Made a great profit, but I did not think it would get so high so soon... Made me wish I had bought MORE back in the late 90's....
Silver is the best option now, but bulky to store in quantity. But still high in price... The time to buy heavily in silver has passed... Unless you just have wads of extra money sitting around...
I'd focus on all debts paid over precious metals at this point in the game... or other tangibles.
I can't think of a BETTER TIME to buy up all these now BARGAIN firearms people are selling due to hard times... But as always, the people with the $$$ thrive and those without sell at a LOSS...
Rmpl
Buying the ETFs is probably the better way to invest, as there is no need to take delivery and to secure and store it.
The price of these exchange traded funds, and others, is tied to the price of the underling commodity:
GLD = SPDR Gold Trust
SLV = iShares Silver Trust
USO = United States Oil Fund
UNG = United States Natural Gas Fund
what do you want to know?
If you think it is a good idea, what company you use, etc.
C4
I just unloaded a shit ton of gold I have been buying since I was about 13 years old (17 years ago). Figured gold might go higher, but why chance it when it is so effing high right now compared to what I bought in at.
I made a lot off my investments and still have more worth in the gold I kept than I spent on it all in the first place.
I wouldn't be buying any right now though, the time to invest was in the past, the time to sell is now (in my opinion/situation) and in the very near future before the value drops again. Who knows how high it will go before it drops though; I've heard all sorts of speculation on the matter, no one seems to be in agreement on the subject.
I have to agree that coins can be a bit better since they are both collectable, and gold.
I know a bunch of people here are probably Glenn Beck fans, but the Goldline stuff has always struck me as an obvious scam:
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/GoldlineGlennBeck4.jpg
I say if you're going to invest in gold or silver, invest in gold or silver, not in coins.
I like the idea of having PHYSICAL Gold and Silver in my hand. Why? Because there is only so much of it in the world and holding a paper certificate saying that I own a certain amount of Gold is the same as me holding US currency. At any time, both can back out of what it says on the piece of paper.
C4
Gold is at an all time high...silver isn't. Pick.
I'd look at some gold and silver mining stocks rather than the commodities themselves right now considering how expensive they are. Agriculture looks solid too.
Become a miner/farmer.
Interesting you say that. I have been reading some reports that say that Silver will eventually surpass Gold. The reason is that Silver is used in a lot of things so it "consumed." Where as Gold is generally made into jewelry and can always be "reclaimed."
Thoughts?
C4
Not "invest" - I buy it as insurance. Same as I buy ammo.
Agree.
I also buy guns, ammo and mags. All of them go up every year. ;)
C4
I do. It's the bank account where I am my own bank and the savings are something tangible and real. :)
If you're 'investing', that is, gaming the tops, then I can see reason in the GLD and SLV funds. If, however, you're looking to build some personal financial dikes, I would not buy 'paper gold' but physical.
Coins are the most recognized form of precious metals worldwide. Go to any pawn shop or anywhere besides the man in the street, any place, and you'll get spot for your Krugerrand, Sovereign, Gold Eagle, whatnot.
I personally buy coins from some local dealers but mostly auction sites because there aren't many stores here. Virtue of being in a tiny country. I have ordered from APMEX before - if you're in America, as you are, you should check out APMEX. Their premiums aren't as high as other PM dealers and their selection is outstanding.
Buy stuff like tubes of silver Maple Leafs and Silver Eagles, and for gold Krugerrands, Gold Eagles and Maple Leafs. Personally I prefer 22k gold because of its higher durability. I like handling my coins like coins, not postage stamps. If you get 24k coins like the Maple Leaf they might be marginally more liquid (easier to sell), but be prepared to keep them sealed and babied to avoid scratches, scuffs and dents. 24k gold is incredibly soft. Still, I have some 24k like Maples and Chinese Gold Pandas. It never hurts to have some different types and kinds of coins for diversity.
Silver is in all likelihood going to skyrocket because the top has been taken off the price recently;
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/whistleblower-exposes-jp-morgans-silver-manipulation-scheme
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/silver-spikes-post-jp-morgan-capitulation-news
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/feds_probing_jpmorgan_trades_in_gZzMvWBqOJpB55M7Rh9vwM
I also recommend following zero hedge - get the news before the news. ;)
Suwannee Tim
12-14-10, 09:46
Interesting you say that. I have been reading some reports that say that Silver will eventually surpass Gold. The reason is that Silver is used in a lot of things so it "consumed." Where as Gold is generally made into jewelry and can always be "reclaimed."
Thoughts?
C4
Some gold is "consumed" in applications such as electronics and some is lost. However if you are using gold in a process you will endeavor to minimize consumption. Plating for example, has been made thinner and thinner and can be done with alloys where it was previously done with 24C. Some gold jewelry might as well be consumed as it will not re-appear on the market for a long time. I think a lot less silver is consumed now than in the past in photographic film. Silver is and has always been way, way cheaper than gold and will likely be so forever.
ForTehNguyen
12-14-10, 10:03
Some gold is "consumed" in applications such as electronics and some is lost. However if you are using gold in a process you will endeavor to minimize consumption. Plating for example, has been made thinner and thinner and can be done with alloys where it was previously done with 24C. Some gold jewelry might as well be consumed as it will not re-appear on the market for a long time. I think a lot less silver is consumed now than in the past in photographic film. Silver is and has always been way, way cheaper than gold and will likely be so forever.
very little gold is consumed in electronics as compared to the annual production. Hence why the world inventories of gold go up every single year.
Silver inventories have been plummeting for decades despite increased industry applications, and no reclamation. The current silver price does not jive with basic supply and demand.
rickrock305
12-14-10, 10:09
The current silver price does not jive with basic supply and demand.
Silver has always been ridiculously manipulated through artificial means.
If you think it is a good idea, what company you use, etc.
C4
I do think it's a good idea to own both physical and equities. I own several different gold and mining stocks and ETFs.
I have all the usual suspects but some of the best funds, IMO, are the US Funds USERX and UNWPX (which is paying 2.76% dividends).
I have bought some bullion and Krugerrands in the past and am glad I did. I used Colorado gold dot com. he had the lowest premiums at the time, though now he has a minimum. a lot of people like APMEX as you can buy in smaller quantities.
If you're just getting started, as a lot of people say, silver seems to have a lot of upside now compared to gold, and it's cheaper to get into physical. it's bulkier however, and it's not going to fit in your safety deposit box down at the bank...
check out the chart I posted earlier about the bubble/bull market trends. in the previous run up we didn't have half the pieces in play that we do now with QE, inflation, and interest rates about to accelerate. regardless of the bears, gold still has a long way to run.
don't believe it? think about yourself... goldbugs and survivalists have been buying ever since the price was 1/5 of what it is now. a lot of buzz/hype is being generated but still, how many people do you know personally who own any??? I think the total number is less than 1/3 of 1 percent of all investors own precious metals in any form at all. now, it's all you hear about on the news and the average Joe is just now starting to ask how he can get some... I know people that are making portfolio-size purchases ($250-$300K) even at these prices.
know what makes a stock or commodity go parabolic? think about what's going to happen to the price if that small number of people start buying and the number simply doubles to 2/3 of 1% in the face of rising prices and declining supply?
bottom line, just like anything else, what do you want to do with it? SHTF - buy it and hoard it. your cash ain't nothing but trash.
investment? eh, look at the funds and get a couple bullion pieces just cuz they're so cool to have...
montanadave
12-14-10, 10:17
If you think it is a good idea, what company you use, etc.
C4
You might want to check out Kitco (http://www.kitco.com/). The only drawback with buying from these firms is the turnaround time between transferring your funds and actually having the gold in your hot little hands. Of course, I pay a little more when I walk into a local coin dealer and walk out the door with my gold. All coins sell higher than spot, but my local dealer might get 6-8 percent over spot whereas Kitco's American Gold Eagles are selling at about 5.5 percent over spot this AM.
I think it is always best to diversify. While gold is a good investment, if the cost becomes too high it makes it more difficult to divide for smaller purchases. This is where investment in other metals comes into play such as silver copper etc... something that can make for easier transactions. Also depending on how you purchase your gold the government keeps tabs on the transaction and there is the risk of confiscation if it becomes outlawed as has happened in the past.
Also, guns, ammo and accessories, longer shelf life foods, fuel etc.... are also good investments.
don't believe it? think about yourself... goldbugs and survivalists have been buying ever since the price was 1/5 of what it is now. a lot of buzz/hype is being generated but still, how many people do you know personally who own any??? I think the total number is less than 1/3 of 1 percent of all investors own precious metals in any form at all. now, it's all you hear about on the news and the average Joe is just now starting to ask how he can get some... I know people that are making portfolio-size purchases ($250-$300K) even at these prices.
know what makes a stock or commodity go parabolic? think about what's going to happen to the price if that small number of people start buying and the number simply doubles to 2/3 of 1% in the face of rising prices and declining supply?
I think there's a lot of merit to your statement. I foresee gold prices rising substantially in the not too distant future due to the "average Joe" just coming on board and helping to push prices even further north. I can't speculate on how much the price will rise but I think a fair guess would be another $500 an ounce.
Personally, I like owning physical gold that I can lay my hands on. Silver can be bought in 1 oz bars as well and are easy to store in my opinion. I'm in the process of learning more about silver as an investment and possibly other precious metals as well.
I do think it's a good idea to own both physical and equities. I own several different gold and mining stocks and ETFs.
I have all the usual suspects but some of the best funds, IMO, are the US Funds USERX and UNWPX (which is paying 2.76% dividends).
I have bought some bullion and Krugerrands in the past and am glad I did. I used Colorado gold dot com. he had the lowest premiums at the time, though now he has a minimum. a lot of people like APMEX as you can buy in smaller quantities.
If you're just getting started, as a lot of people say, silver seems to have a lot of upside now compared to gold, and it's cheaper to get into physical. it's bulkier however, and it's not going to fit in your safety deposit box down at the bank...
check out the chart I posted earlier about the bubble/bull market trends. in the previous run up we didn't have half the pieces in play that we do now with QE, inflation, and interest rates about to accelerate. regardless of the bears, gold still has a long way to run.
don't believe it? think about yourself... goldbugs and survivalists have been buying ever since the price was 1/5 of what it is now. a lot of buzz/hype is being generated but still, how many people do you know personally who own any??? I think the total number is less than 1/3 of 1 percent of all investors own precious metals in any form at all. now, it's all you hear about on the news and the average Joe is just now starting to ask how he can get some... I know people that are making portfolio-size purchases ($250-$300K) even at these prices.
know what makes a stock or commodity go parabolic? think about what's going to happen to the price if that small number of people start buying and the number simply doubles to 2/3 of 1% in the face of rising prices and declining supply?
bottom line, just like anything else, what do you want to do with it? SHTF - buy it and hoard it. your cash ain't nothing but trash.
investment? eh, look at the funds and get a couple bullion pieces just cuz they're so cool to have...
All good points. I am looking at Gold or Silver from the fact that I can have it physically in my hand and would be able to buy or trade with it. Do I think that the US dollars is going to be worthless soon? No. Do I want options? Yes.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
C4
jasonhgross
12-14-10, 11:27
SELL NOW!
I think you're behind the curve at this point for buying.
Wait for it to drop, it is intriguing to me that when economies go south that Gold and Silver start gaining value again.
My problem with Gold and Silver is honestly, in a truth TEOTWAWKI situation....
What could you trade Gold for? Honestly?
I guess the psychological association of generation after generation of just valuing gold, it will continue to have worth.
But from an investor's perspective, getting away from ideals, You're buying at the top of the market.
Just be aware of that, I don't know enough to speculate on where prices will go, but, just saying.
Silver solder is used in various things, but I think silver is affordable enough to buy in quantity.
Buy Gold if you like, but just saying, who knows.
SELL NOW!
Why not hold on to tangible gold assets as a long term insurance/hedge against inflation? I think of the gold I own in terms of long term versus short term quick monetary gains. Personally I wouldn't recommend purchasing gold at this point in time unless you're hoping for a quick turn around and selling in the short term. If someone wants to own it for the long term wait a while until prices drop and then jump on the train.
I like http://www.bulliondirect.com/
They sell themselves but also run an anonymous buy/sell exchange with them as the middleman.
I would not buy gold or silver now as a investment. I might start buying as a hedge. If you believe SHTF is around the corner then have at it. Otherwise I might see if the price comes down some. In any case, dedicate $x a month for gold an $y a month for silver and just buy a little bit every month to set aside as a hedge and for SHTF.
You can buy 1/20 and 1/10 oz gold of many types (small reasonable pieces to buy regularly) (and larger pieces) as well as 1 oz silver either as various coins, rounds, or bars.
bulliondirect.com will hold your gold and silver for you as well so if you buy some every month you can have them disperse it every 6 months or whenever to minimize your shipping costs per unit.
(I have no interest in bulliondirect.com except as a customer at one time when I had the means)
one of the coolest things ever is handling those silver bars.
I agree. As a numismatics hobbyist, I've always thought the most enjoyable part was taking out and "handling" the coins and bullion, as opposed to locating rare items that are "worth something" or owning the paper that says you own the item.
There's something really satisfying about taking a stack of vintage silver Liberty halves and flipping them around in your hand.
Same for 10 or 100 oz silver bars, or even Gold Eagles/Maple Leafs/Pandas. They are just fun to look at and hold in your hand, regardless of their actual value.
The fact that they are going up is just a bonus. (Sort of like firearm values over the past 15 years; few of us bought them for that purpose, as we are users, but it is a nice side-benefit.)
For SHTF type scenarios, remember to buy some 40% and 90% silver coins as well. You can buy 10$ (or larger) face value silver coins (quarters, half dollars etc) that have a known amount of silver in them and are smaller than one ounce.
The 40% are the 1965-1969 quarters, half dollars, etc.
The 90% are the pre 1965 quarters, half dollars, etc.
(I may have 1965 in the wrong category but you get the idea)
ForTehNguyen
12-14-10, 12:46
My problem with Gold and Silver is honestly, in a truth TEOTWAWKI situation....
What could you trade Gold for? Honestly?
the most realistic crisis is a currency collapse not a TEOTWAWKI
My problem with Gold and Silver is honestly, in a truth TEOTWAWKI situation....
What could you trade Gold for? Honestly?
History has shown that there are always people who lust after gold and silver and do lots of stupid life ending things to try and get it. At least for a while, even in a TEOTWAWKI situation gold and silver will have value to lots of people. At least as a medium of trade.
If I am farmer I might trade some food for gold and silver and then trade the gold and silver for some medicines from someone who needs something else. Even in TEOTWAWKI situations people will needs to trade for things and gold and silver make good mediums as they are know quantities.
I think the most realistic crisis currently is a food shortage; the pieces of the pie are falling into place; I bet we have one sometime soon. More than likely it will be on a global scale as well, not just local.
My biggest investments are in tangible items like food, water, guns, ammo, fuel, and food/power producing equipment.
I always rotate my food supply so it never goes bad. I have actually saved a shit ton of money buying it bulk on sale and rotating; I never have to buy unless it is on sale now; saving me quite a bit of money over buying it whenever it is needed at whatever price they charge. I built it up over a year or so worth of time, so there was no huge initial investment, just built it up pieec by piece whenever things went on sale.
I think you're behind the curve at this point for buying.
Wait for it to drop, it is intriguing to me that when economies go south that Gold and Silver start gaining value again.
My problem with Gold and Silver is honestly, in a truth TEOTWAWKI situation....
What could you trade Gold for? Honestly?
I guess the psychological association of generation after generation of just valuing gold, it will continue to have worth.
But from an investor's perspective, getting away from ideals, You're buying at the top of the market.
Just be aware of that, I don't know enough to speculate on where prices will go, but, just saying.
Silver solder is used in various things, but I think silver is affordable enough to buy in quantity.
Buy Gold if you like, but just saying, who knows.
Sure, it's not going to be useful in a zombie apocalypse. But realistically, that's not what's going to happen.
What's going to happen is what happened to Argentina when their currency collapsed and their civilization took a drop. Guess what people cherished, and sold in order to buy food and consumables? Their PMs.. Of course, mostly in jewelry form. Coins are much more liquid and confirmable, you'll sell less under spot with coins or recognized bars.
If you're more worried about WW3 and China invading, or the black helicopters, then I guess gold and silver is uninteresting. But for those who study history and what has happened recently in other nations, it has great, time-proven value.
It's a good idea to store food, but you can't store food indefinitely. Those PMs aren't gonna go stale, they're sat there ready to be turned into something more liquid for buying consumables. That's their value: protecting your purchasing power as your local currency depreciates or becomes utterly worthless.
Submariner
12-14-10, 19:35
The 40% are the 1965-1969 quarters, half dollars, etc.
Halves only, not quarters and dimes.
http://coinflation.com/
I think there's a lot of merit to your statement. I foresee gold prices rising substantially in the not too distant future due to the "average Joe" just coming on board and helping to push prices even further north. I can't speculate on how much the price will rise but I think a fair guess would be another $500 an ounce.
Personally, I like owning physical gold that I can lay my hands on. Silver can be bought in 1 oz bars as well and are easy to store in my opinion. I'm in the process of learning more about silver as an investment and possibly other precious metals as well.
buy the rumor, sell the news! :D
one other point I didn't bring up, is the Chinese and other central banks are accumulating Gold, Silver, Platinum, Palladium, etc. like never before. never before have so many central banks been on balance accumulators as now. one of my best investment newsletters always says, "don't watch CNBC, watch what the banksters are doing, they never lose"...
it is said that there are really only two factors controlling market prices - greed and fear. panic is fear multiplied...
for months now, the public is getting used to hearing about gold and the reasons for owning it. they're discussing it with each other and even flirting with the idea of getting some for "investment". some are even asking "what if?". this speculation alone is driving the price of PMs (precious metals) in a fairly benevolent market.
what do you think happens if/when something bad ( a black swan) really does happen and people start to panic? how many people on the Titanic do you think didn't head for the lifeboats and just stayed on deck in their life-preservers???
I don't think a black swan event is going to look like what most people envision now. the problem with a finite resource is that it can seem plentiful till it isn't. then you get to see panic in action...
Halves only, not quarters and dimes.
http://coinflation.com/
Cool. Thanks for the clarification.
All good points. I am looking at Gold or Silver from the fact that I can have it physically in my hand and would be able to buy or trade with it. Do I think that the US dollars is going to be worthless soon? No. Do I want options? Yes.
Plan for the worst, hope for the best.
C4
the problem that most of us have now is we've never seen real adversity in our lifetimes. I am fortunate in that my wife's grandfather, Ted Hirsch, a Polish Jew who fled to America in the face of the Nazi occupation has shared with me many of the horrors of life during the Wiemar Republic. He was a good friend of Newt Gingrich - was even his first campaign manager - and is mentioned on page 96 of his book, To Renew America.
on the wall of his office, Newt keeps a framed 1 million Deutsche Mark note that Ted gave him and told him that people used to carry bushel baskets of these to stand in line to buy bread with. sometimes people would pass out from fatigue or hunger and wake up to find that someone dumped out the notes all over the ground and stolen the basket...
I don't know what the future is going to look like. but I'm not dumb enough to think that simply because it has never happened to me that it can't or won't, that we're somehow smarter, or immune from these types of calamities. or even worse, that I somehow escape the worst but my children are left to fend. I don't want to even think about that... my bullion is not for me. it's for my kids.
my mining stocks and ETFs are for me... :D
...Wait for it to drop, it is intriguing to me that when economies go south that Gold and Silver start gaining value again.
My problem with Gold and Silver is honestly, in a truth TEOTWAWKI situation....
What could you trade Gold for? Honestly?
I guess the psychological association of generation after generation of just valuing gold, it will continue to have worth.
it's not that when economies go south that gold and silver start gaining value, they are value. gold and silver have been used as a store of value and for trade throughout all recorded history.
it's only recently that our paper currency could not be redeemed for real money - remember silver certificates? I do...
in all of history there has not been a single fiat currency that has sustained. what makes us think that the dollar will be any different?
in a truth TEOTWAWKI situation.... what could you trade gold for? honestly? everything...
buy the rumor, sell the news! :D
And friends thought I was crazy extolling the virtues of purchasing gold 7 or 8 years ago. :D
the problem that most of us have now is we've never seen real adversity in our lifetimes. I am fortunate in that my wife's grandfather, Ted Hirsch, a Polish Jew who fled to America in the face of the Nazi occupation has shared with me many of the horrors of life during the Wiemar Republic. He was a good friend of Newt Gingrich - was even his first campaign manager - and is mentioned on page 96 of his book, To Renew America.
on the wall of his office, Newt keeps a framed 1 million Deutsche Mark note that Ted gave him and told him that people used to carry bushel baskets of these to stand in line to buy bread with. sometimes people would pass out from fatigue or hunger and wake up to find that someone dumped out the notes all over the ground and stolen the basket...
I don't know what the future is going to look like. but I'm not dumb enough to think that simply because it has never happened to me that it can't or won't, that we're somehow smarter, or immune from these types of calamities. or even worse, that I somehow escape the worst but my children are left to fend. I don't want to even think about that... my bullion is not for me. it's for my kids.
my mining stocks and ETFs are for me... :D
Oh I don't disagree. To be honest, I think that everything will start with an EMP blast and or a food shortage. I have land to farm and a lake full of fish (which I am going to stock even more in 2011).
Gold and Silver is simply a fall back option if the person that I am bartering with won't accept US currency (as it is most likely worthless). This is why I want physical coin in my hand.
C4
willowofwisp
12-15-10, 09:18
Oh I don't disagree. To be honest, I think that everything will start with an EMP blast and or a food shortage. I have land to farm and a lake full of fish (which I am going to stock even more in 2011).
Gold and Silver is simply a fall back option if the person that I am bartering with won't accept US currency (as it is most likely worthless). This is why I want physical coin in my hand.
C4
I don't understand this whole bartering thing..if SHTF and society is done as we know it...well I am not gonna trade someone my gold for their food/money..most likely I am gonna take it from them by force.
Magic_Salad0892
12-15-10, 11:24
^
That sounds like a terrible idea.
The early 90's I think were pretty much the best time to invest in PMs, because of inflation. Right now you're just ''buying at the brink''.
Very last minute.
That said, I am currently investing in PMs.
I don't understand this whole bartering thing..if SHTF and society is done as we know it...well I am not gonna trade someone my gold for their food/money..most likely I am gonna take it from them by force.
That maybe. As a Christian, "taking" (Stealing) is not really a good idea. YMMV.
C4
^
That sounds like a terrible idea.
The early 90's I think were pretty much the best time to invest in PMs, because of inflation. Right now you're just ''buying at the brink''.
Very last minute.
That said, I am currently investing in PMs.
A couple years ago someone asked me about buying Gold and Silver and I stated that it was a poor idea to buy when it was so high.
As we can see, it had a lot more "climbing" to go. The projected growth of Gold and Silver is going up (not down).
I am not looking for an investment, but more of an option to buy things with (if the US currency is dead).
C4
Magic_Salad0892
12-15-10, 11:44
I am not looking for an investment, but more of an option to buy things with (if the US currency is dead).
C4
Why do you think that isn't an investment? Or would you classify that as insurance.
Because mine fills both roles. If I'm broke, I'll sell an ounce. If the US economy shits the bed, then I'm trading it for food.
Why do you think that isn't an investment? Or would you classify that as insurance.
Because mine fills both roles. If I'm broke, I'll sell an ounce. If the US economy shits the bed, then I'm trading it for food.
Because buying at a high price on ANYTHING is never the "best idea." I look at it as pure insurance.
If I had purchased years ago, then it would be an investment.
C4
I don't understand this whole bartering thing..if SHTF and society is done as we know it...well I am not gonna trade someone my gold for their food/money..most likely I am gonna take it from them by force.
Of all the places you could have posted something as stupid as your above quote, you chose here, m4carbine.net, the premiere no-nonsense practical-application tactical forum. You do realize that attempting the above with 99% of the posters on this board would gain you two in the chest and one in the head, right?
Dimwit.
So true! :sarcastic:
Squirrel!
Oh I don't disagree. To be honest, I think that everything will start with an EMP blast and or a food shortage. I have land to farm and a lake full of fish (which I am going to stock even more in 2011).
Gold and Silver is simply a fall back option if the person that I am bartering with won't accept US currency (as it is most likely worthless). This is why I want physical coin in my hand.
C4
agreed. however you define SHTF or whatever, it always includes fiat money being next to worthlessness. the dollar is backed by the "full faith and credit of the US". what happens when that faith is removed and we are swamped by credit defaults? there are already places in the US that use their own form of currency.
people get up from watching CNBC and think we might actually have a chance of avoiding a Depression. but the "recovery" we are experiencing is sustained by mind-blowing amounts of cash infusion and unheard of low interest rates, and I understand the next round of QE is going to be in the neighborhood of $1.1 trillion?
what's going to happen when credit rates eventually rise? what's going to happen when the second, or is it the third round of property defaults hit in May?
I have a friend who is a commercial RE broker and he said the defaults on commercial property is going to make the housing defaults look like kindergarten. he said, and I still have a hard time believing, that his small office has over $200 million out and they expect 80% default this coming February. that's staggering!!!
honestly, my version is that I'm assuming that things are going to get worse, a lot worse, before they get better. just like I play the gold/silver ratios when I accumulate those, when real estate gets to give-away prices and gold gets higher, I plan to convert some of my stores into land, preferably a mix of wooded and arable, with fresh water supply. I envy you.
I don't see anything as permanent...
And friends thought I was crazy extolling the virtues of purchasing gold 7 or 8 years ago. :D
yeah no kiddin... I just wish I had bought fractional ounces at those "low" prices but the higher premiums scared me away then.
I don't understand this whole bartering thing..if SHTF and society is done as we know it...well I am not gonna trade someone my gold for their food/money..most likely I am gonna take it from them by force.
I'm sure a lot of people see it that way but I'm gonna say that strategy won't have a very long shelf-life...
the probable reality is going to be somewhere between the greatest depression we have ever seen and the full-out apocalypse as depicted in movies. that type of behavior is probably going to occur in some locations at the first provocation (remember the LA and Rodney King riots?) but at some point we're going to try to normalize as much as possible.
if that happens, expect whatever serves as the .gov to step in and issue another fiat currency, perhaps "credits" or whatever, but also expect a huge black market for goods and the rise of local trade. anything with real value and durable goods are what is going to be considered wealth then.
we have never experienced war on our own soil but I have talked with many who have. I mentioned my wife's grandfather who escaped Nazi occupied Poland, my own grandmother lived through two world wars in Italy and my mother was in Rome through the German occupation, during the landing at Anzio and the eventual liberation, and my Dad spent a lot of time as a Msgt. in Korea and Japan during the Korean War. I expect our probable scenario to be something on the order of that or any other militarized economy.
Modern day equivalents are life in Iraq, Afghan, or Somalia. regardless of who steps in to fill the power vacuum, it's going to have the imprimatur of a militaristic authority and they're going to do their best to quash any of that type of behavior. we can't all be Wolverines...
^
That sounds like a terrible idea.
The early 90's I think were pretty much the best time to invest in PMs, because of inflation. Right now you're just ''buying at the brink''.
Very last minute.
That said, I am currently investing in PMs.
do you really think we're "buying at the brink"? did you see the chart I posted earlier?
http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=844665&postcount=13
I think the most realistic crisis currently is a food shortage; the pieces of the pie are falling into place; I bet we have one sometime soon. More than likely it will be on a global scale as well, not just local.
My biggest investments are in tangible items like food, water, guns, ammo, fuel, and food/power producing equipment.
I always rotate my food supply so it never goes bad. I have actually saved a shit ton of money buying it bulk on sale and rotating; I never have to buy unless it is on sale now; saving me quite a bit of money over buying it whenever it is needed at whatever price they charge. I built it up over a year or so worth of time, so there was no huge initial investment, just built it up pieec by piece whenever things went on sale.
This is what I practice as well. Take the hard hit in costs up front and buy in bulk, then slowly rotate that bulk out, resupplying what's used when it's on sale. It's amazing how cheaply you can live and how you can apply this approach to stocking up (and supporting) pretty much everything for next to nothing.
ForTehNguyen
12-15-10, 14:38
yeah no kiddin... I just wish I had bought fractional ounces at those "low" prices but the higher premiums scared me away then.
staying in the dollar will be scarier as time goes by. I dont even consider buying gold/silver as "spending money" you are exchanging your money into another form - one thats a hell of a lot more stable and safe.
bubble? what bubble?...
http://www.usfunds.com/media/images/investor-alert/2010-12-10/COMM-GoldPerfBullMkts-042110.gif
The question is: Is there a Gold bubble or is Silver being artificially deflated. Silver should proportionately rise at roughly 14/1 ratio.
I like the idea of having PHYSICAL Gold and Silver in my hand. Why? Because there is only so much of it in the world and holding a paper certificate saying that I own a certain amount of Gold is the same as me holding US currency. At any time, both can back out of what it says on the piece of paper.
C4
+1. I think The JP Morgue is doing this as we speak.
http://www.coinflation.com/
Speaking of...
“…I want to make it equally clear that this nation will maintain the dollar as good as gold, freely interchangeable with gold at $35 an ounce, the foundation-stone of the free world’s trade and payments system.”
John F. Kennedy, July 18, 1963
“That we stand ready to use our gold to meet our international obligations–down to the last bar of gold, if that be necessary–should be crystal clear to all.”
William McChesney Martin, Jr. (Federal Reserve Chairman) December 9, 1963
Lesson: When someone says you can exchange paper for precious metals – make the swap before they change the rules.
Since the invention of paper, people have been writing bogus notes, and if there are two time-tested methods to become wealthy beyond your wildest dreams, they are: 1)Selling stuff that doesn’t exist and 2) Selling stuff you don’t actually own. Unless you believe there has been a sudden outbreak of integrity in the banking industry, there’s no reason to believe these dynamics are not still in play, is there? As recently as 2007, Morgan Stanley settled a class-action lawsuit with 22,000 clients who bought and paid storage on “phantom” silver (check out the Ted Butler article Money for Nothing).
At today’s prices, a million dollars in gold weighs less than fifty pounds, but a million dollars in silver weighs more than 2,300 pounds! So ask yourself, how many rich people are storing their own silver? How many hedge funds hold physical silver in their own storage facility? Or have they entrusted the storage to the big banks?
JP Morgan is the custodian of the ishares Silver Trust (SLV), which now holds over 350 million ounces of silver, provides sovereign and corporate investors with precious metals solutions (JP’s website), and is the largest short seller of silver in the history of the world. Berkshire Asset Management’s Eric Fry writes:
Based on some of the latest conjecture, Morgan’s short position totals a whopping 3.3 billion ounces. If, therefore, the buzz about J.P. Morgan and silver is even half true, the prestigious investment bank could be cruisin’ for bruisin’.
For perspective, 3.3 billion ounces is roughly equal to:
1) One third of all the world’s known silver deposits;
2) Two times the world’s approximate stockpiles of silver bullion;
3) Four times the annual mined supply of silver;
4) 30 times the inventory of silver at the COMEX.
If you can, forget about the conflict of interest, and ponder the enormity of the explosion.
The Treasury has sold 34 million one ounce American Eagles so far in 2010. Those sales total less than one Billion dollars. Apple (AAPL) trades about that much every hour the market is open. Meanwhile the Treasury has issued more than 1.5 Trillion in new debt (1,500 times more) in 2010. Just for fun, let’s multiply 1500 by 34 million. A transaction of that size would have equaled every last bit of silver ever discovered at $30 an ounce. Yet you can actually find people who believe silver is the bubble.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-what-silver-vigilantes-understand-you-probably-don%E2%80%99t-arithmetic-human-nature-and-
QuickStrike
12-16-10, 03:50
Damnit, 5-6 years ago one of my co-workers suggested that I invest in gold. Spent it all on guns and some useless crap!
Oh well, I suppose I can barter with ammo if SHTF? :p
I don't understand this whole bartering thing..if SHTF and society is done as we know it...well I am not gonna trade someone my gold for their food/money..most likely I am gonna take it from them by force.
Kind of makes you wonder about the people who live around you. Molon Labe.:D
Technically, gold is not really an investment. It serves more to protect the assets that you already have. Gold is a relatively stable medium of exchange and does not fluctuate much in price. When it takes more of a fiat currency (such as US dollars) to purchase gold, it is saying more about the stability of the fiat currency than it is about the price of gold.
Suwannee Tim
12-16-10, 19:59
I don't understand this whole bartering thing..if SHTF and society is done as we know it...well I am not gonna trade someone my gold for their food/money..most likely I am gonna take it from them by force.
When the SHTF come see me. I've got plenty of food and money.:sarcastic:
willowofwisp
12-16-10, 21:01
When the SHTF come see me. I've got plenty of food and money.:sarcastic:
How am i gonna get all the way to florida..when SHTF i can't imagine how i would get enough gas lol
The_War_Wagon
12-16-10, 21:47
If you think it is a good idea, what company you use, etc.
C4
Go local. I use a local coin shop here in Pittsburgh, that's been in business since 1959. I go with the gold bullion coins (primarily American Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs), and "junk silver" American coins. That is to say, circulated American coinage of the 20th century (primarily), with no intrinsic numismatic value (rare mint marks, small mintage numbers, etc.).
Sadly, I didn't start buying until silver was almost $7 an oz., and gold $650 an oz. If I'd jumped on it when I first moved here with a PAYING job, I could have had both at HALF that price!
Coin shops are GREAT places to meet LIKE-MINDED individuals on everything from politics to prepping to personal security. In fact, I've been working with the owners of my local shop on their security & firearms, even as they've worked with me on building my 'insurance.' Leading new customers to them has netted me several extra silver dollars over the years, and as a good regular customer, they've OFTEN thrown in an extra dime or quarter here and there, to help me round off a roll. The LOCAL networking you can do at a coin shop is unbelievable. :cool:
Just for fun... Gold is at an all time high of $1588 and looking to bust $1600 in the very near future. :D
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