View Full Version : LAHNER Tactical FAIL
I know videos of this guy have been posted on here before, but this made me throw up and little in the back of my mouth.
Check out right around 2:19-2:22ish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laArmgaM3To&feature=related
and those appear to be live rounds he fires after his little gun wave. It also looks like his finger is on the trigger. Even if it were blanks, this is full of fail. Not to mention his turn sideways ghetto blast'n 0-5m combat stance.
This one is worse, not the same guys but Jesus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP7b1My8SDo&feature=related
....and you missed the 2:41 dancing with the stars? lol
no1ofconsequence
12-16-10, 04:41
....and you missed the 2:41 dancing with the stars? lol
HA! That was the ONLY redeeming part of the vid... at least I got a laugh. It looks like a dance move / collaboration between Jackie Chan and Michael Jackson!! :D
RE: the whole thing - At least I am "ready" now if / when I get attacked by intoxicated zombies who produce a weapon and JUST STAND THERE whilst I perform a complex series of 19 steps to gain an advantage! :rolleyes:
This is the kind of $#!t that can get people killed!
NoveskeFan
12-16-10, 05:08
Its all good till they start to fight back:stop: DONT MOVE! I have to remember the sequence for when you throw a right jab...
Appalachian
12-16-10, 06:38
This one is worse, not the same guys but Jesus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP7b1My8SDo&feature=related
He missed the other two dummy targets. Jackassery at its best. But he is "special forces airbone ranger anti terrorist delta krav magpul trained" ...so dont try this. :rolleyes:
haha I would laugh at them during the live fire, but I sure wouldn't want to mess with them unarmed
You know what gets me about these bullshit videos?
There's no ****ing way to protect yourself against a person with a knife/blade who has the will to kill you. A knife wielding aggressor doesn't need technique to cause grave harm.
The only thing you can do is run. Any attempt at being a ninja will earn you a gaping wound.
Victims of a knife attack are quick to focus on the knife when they decide to fight back or are forced to fight the threat. The result is that they catch a hook to the jaw (among other ways of getting the upper hand) by the aggressors other arm, and then the carving begins.
disarming/beating the perp up while sustaining life threatening injuries that result in your death is not "winning".
run, run, RUN. There's no shame in running.
glockkid88
12-16-10, 18:53
Kal, what's your experience with defense against knives? Did your instructor teach you that all you can do is run? Thats interesting.
Kal, what's your experience with defense against knives? Did your instructor teach you that all you can do is run? Thats interesting.
no instructors/experience. Just reading about knife attacks, video footage and such. Don't need experience to tell me not be the karate kid against a dude with a blade.
I don't see how anyone can succeed going unarmed against a person with a blade without serious injury. I understand that closing in to restrict an aggressors movement is the way to fight if you have no other choice. But how do you do that when you're receiving lacerations at stand off distance?
I remain convinced that there's no efficient way to fight off a person with a blade unless you gather yourself and run away, pull a pistol, whatever.
LAHNERTactical WTF? That instructor should be in jail.
They appear to be based out of Germany. They also make scat porn in Germany. Both are full of shit.
GermanSynergy
12-16-10, 21:30
Any type of tactical training is very hard to do legally in Germany, so I don't begrudge this guy for finding a niche in the market. Some of the techniques are more Van Damme than anything else.
CarlosDJackal
12-16-10, 22:07
What the hell is the purpose of all that crap starting at 3:07? :confused:
no instructors/experience. Just reading about knife attacks, video footage and such. Don't need experience to tell me not be the karate kid against a dude with a blade.
I don't see how anyone can succeed going unarmed against a person with a blade without serious injury. I understand that closing in to restrict an aggressors movement is the way to fight if you have no other choice. But how do you do that when you're receiving lacerations at stand off distance?
I remain convinced that there's no efficient way to fight off a person with a blade unless you gather yourself and run away, pull a pistol, whatever.
This is almost exactly what Al Mar used to tell me. Also, I had a Filipino lady who worked for me say her people used TWO knives at once, one in each hand. It's not like the movies!
This is almost exactly what Al Mar used to tell me. Also, I had a Filipino lady who worked for me say her people used TWO knives at once, one in each hand. It's not like the movies!
Exactly. If you're caught off guard and unarmed. Rush the pistol and run from the knife.
glockkid88
12-17-10, 18:58
What happens when you are in a situation that you can't run and the guy comes at you with a knife? You will be cut......that does not mean that you have no possible defenses to a knife attack. Check out a video of what happens when an inmate is attacked with a knife in an enclosed cell. Now the fact is that usually they come away looking a lot less atractive than they did before, but if you dont at least try to fight back you will be having a closed casket funeral. I thought for a long time that a person is defenseless to a knife attack until I started training with people who refuse to accept being on the losing end of any confrontation, much less an aggressor with a knife. It was put to me best when I asked a guy what could you do to stop me from cutting you? He answered "nothing, Im gonna get cut, It's on me to decide where I get cut." This guy sounded like a dick when he said it but when we locked up he stopped me before I couldve inflicted life threatening injuries to him. At least he goes in with the attitude that he's gonna win. If you go in thinking "oh shit! RUN! you will probably turn your back on your aggressor and he will run you down and stab a ****ing philips head screwdriver into your back! I would love to hear from some corrections officers on this subject! Every one that I know would tell you that turning and running is a great idea until theres nowhere to run and by the time you realize youre trapped you have been slashed and stabbed two dozen times.
NCPatrolAR
12-17-10, 20:10
What happens when you are in a situation that you can't run and the guy comes at you with a knife?
When going unarmed against a weapon-equiped oppoent I apply the "3 C's":
Capture the weapon-bearing limb
Control the weapon-bearing limb
Counter-attack
glockkid88
12-18-10, 19:41
When going unarmed against a weapon-equiped oppoent I apply the "3 C's":
Capture the weapon-bearing limb
Control the weapon-bearing limb
Counter-attack
Agree 100%.
When fighting a knife armed opponent you WILL get cut. Running away will just get you cut in the back...
Like NC said, capture, control, counter
no instructors/experience. Just reading about knife attacks, video footage and such. Don't need experience to tell me not be the karate kid against a dude with a blade.
I don't see how anyone can succeed going unarmed against a person with a blade without serious injury. I understand that closing in to restrict an aggressors movement is the way to fight if you have no other choice. But how do you do that when you're receiving lacerations at stand off distance?
I remain convinced that there's no efficient way to fight off a person with a blade unless you gather yourself and run away, pull a pistol, whatever.
NC summed it up, but if you can enter successfully, you can win.
Things in your environment can go a long way. Projectile anything at him to get him to flinch/turn (glass of water, keys, a plate of food), get him to trip over something by rushing him and getting him moving backwards, pickup anything with some length and beat his teeth in with it to create an opportunity to enter (lamps, brooms, bottles, books, it doesn't matter).
Basic stick/edged weapons concepts and attack principles go a long way...the key is growing a set and attacking your attacker so he's reacting to you, and stays a step behind. If all you do is block, run, defend...he's always a step ahead of you.
It seems like everyone has to always say "you're going to get cut" whenever you discuss edged weapons.
You're focusing on the wrong things. Lots of people get cut to shit, and have NO IDEA about it until way after the fact.
http://officer.com/web/online/Top-News-Stories/Stabbed-Ark-Officer-Talks-About-Incident/1$54536
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0E11FD355D11738DDDAA0A94D8415B8985F0D3
Stop thinking about how badly your going to get hurt, and start thinking about destroying the stupid SOB that decided to screw with you.
Hello everyone! Gotta say I've been lurking on here for a while and love this forum. Can't watch the video right now, but I think i'm finally qualified to put in my .02 on this one.
I work in an extremely violent prison. Stabbings, slashings and any other caveman style killing is what I deal with on a regular basis. I've been attacked with various weapons and have seen more people stabbed than I care to count. You can run if you want to... But, you're probablly going to die tired. I fight and I fight to win.
Thanks for the great forum!
It appears obvious to me that if you have no choice, you must fight. If you have a choice, get out of there!
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-19-10, 01:35
You know what gets me about these bullshit videos?
There's no ****ing way to protect yourself against a person with a knife/blade who has the will to kill you. A knife wielding aggressor doesn't need technique to cause grave harm.
The only thing you can do is run. Any attempt at being a ninja will earn you a gaping wound.
Victims of a knife attack are quick to focus on the knife when they decide to fight back or are forced to fight the threat. The result is that they catch a hook to the jaw (among other ways of getting the upper hand) by the aggressors other arm, and then the carving begins.
disarming/beating the perp up while sustaining life threatening injuries that result in your death is not "winning".
run, run, RUN. There's no shame in running.
Pretty sure the mantra of this site is that if you dont have any formal training in what youre talking about and have no experience, then you shouldnt be giving out crappy advice.
CoolBreeze, the point in telling people that they will be cut in defending against a knife is to prepare them for it. Most people will stop/freeze at least momentarily when they see their own blood. By providing the mental preparation before hand it "should" cut down on this. If you don't get cut way cool, but having seen the after effects of several knife fights that's not the norm.
CoolBreeze, the point in telling people that they will be cut in defending against a knife is to prepare them for it. Most people will stop/freeze at least momentarily when they see their own blood. By providing the mental preparation before hand it "should" cut down on this. If you don't get cut way cool, but having seen the after effects of several knife fights that's not the norm.
Sure, I get it...maybe I'm reading into things too much, it just seems like everyone likes to obsess over that (not saying you were, just that it seems like the cliche response, I guess).
Cheers.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-19-10, 17:36
CoolBreeze, the point in telling people that they will be cut in defending against a knife is to prepare them for it. Most people will stop/freeze at least momentarily when they see their own blood. By providing the mental preparation before hand it "should" cut down on this. If you don't get cut way cool, but having seen the after effects of several knife fights that's not the norm.
Exactly. We've been stressing that fact in training for awhile now. It is a vicious fight for survival, you will be cut and you will bleed, but if dont control that weapon and destroy your attacker...you will die on the spot. Running is only taught as a secondary move to a blow or deflection (most of the time to gain enough ground to deploy a weapon platform or to regain composure and press the fight), but never ever in training is it a recommendation.
Pretty sure the mantra of this site is that if you dont have any formal training in what youre talking about and have no experience, then you shouldnt be giving out crappy advice
How many people can you find that have been stabbed in the neck and can tell you their experiences? If it takes being face raped with a blade to have experience, then I don't want none. I have to go off of other peoples misfortunes on video footage, because I sure as hell won't accept all that karate "hi-yah" ****ing bullshit I see on youtube to show me how to deal with a knife attack.
That is why you should carry on your person, be aware of surrounding and practice draw. Gun vs knife = good outcome for you.
[QUOTE=kal;850404]How many people can you find that have been stabbed in the neck and can tell you their experiences? QUOTE]
From where I'm sitting... several. I don't think anyone is going to convince you of that though.
Obviously, you'd want a weapon and time. But, you don't always get that lucky. To say that there is "no way to fight someone with a knife" and you're automaticlly going to die unless you run for your life is silly. It's not something I want to do and something I hope you never have to do. But, it is something I've had to do and I'm typing this right now... do the math.
You Tube videos can be a little over-the-top and there are a lot of people selling BS, but don't discount ALL of that "Karate Ninja Kung Fu fighting stuff". It can come in quite handy at times. For everyone else, there's always 9-1-1.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-19-10, 21:25
How many people can you find that have been stabbed in the neck and can tell you their experiences? If it takes being face raped with a blade to have experience, then I don't want none. I have to go off of other peoples misfortunes on video footage, because I sure as hell won't accept all that karate "hi-yah" ****ing bullshit I see on youtube to show me how to deal with a knife attack.
If youre getting your training from youtube then we can end this conversation right here and now. Do some dummy knife training with an instructor with 100% force on force, then study a martial art and learn a self defense discipline, and then you may give advice on this topic. Sorry if this seems crass or rude, but IIWI.
Failure2Stop
12-20-10, 01:23
When going unarmed against a weapon-equiped oppoent I apply the "3 C's":
Capture the weapon-bearing limb
Control the weapon-bearing limb
Counter-attack
You forgot the fourth C:
Cave-in the skull.
NCPatrolAR
12-20-10, 07:58
You forgot the fourth C:
Cave-in the skull.
That typically falls under "Counter attack" ;)
glockkid88
12-20-10, 21:05
Kal, The whole point of defending against an edged weapon is to defend your vital zones ie. your neck! Your lack of experience in actual fighting shows. One thing we're forgetting is that it may not be a knife you get attacked with, a screwdriver for instance will not cut you, however people generally attack in a sewing machine motion when they use an edged weapon. You will have to defend against a lot more stabbing motions in a fight than a slashing motion. Same techniques apply. I personally use the whizzer technique a lot in BJJ. That is a good starting place to defense against edged/impact weapons. If anyone is interested in a real training video on the subject then this is the one to watch, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0fPL4f3Eqc
Kal this might be a good one for you!
This one is worse, not the same guys but Jesus...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP7b1My8SDo&feature=related
:laugh:
"Do not attempt this dangerous live fire drill".
WHAT?
Am I missing something? Because it really looks like he just shot 3 targets at close range....
Rattlehead
12-21-10, 00:14
That is why you should carry on your person, be aware of surrounding and practice draw. Gun vs knife = good outcome for you.
Not necessarily..
About five or six years ago we had a knife class out here and the instructor asked the host (who has his CCW) to see if he could draw his pistol and have it into the fight before the attacker with the knife got to him (fake gun, fake knife). I think the distance was around 6 to 7 yards, and the attacker was able to reach or get considerably close the hosts space every time. Admittedly the speed of the draw will be a factor especially depending on what clothing you wear, but it just goes to show that you should never underestimate others because you have a gun on you.
Practice practice..
It's the "Tueller rule". Here's a good article on it:
http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/
Rattlehead
12-21-10, 02:13
Thanks Atchcraft, thought there was a name for it.
No problem.
Something else that I find interesting is how you will almost always find self inflicted wounds on the suspect. Especially when they are trying to hold onto a victim that is trying to run. The suport side arm usually has some pretty good wounds from a "berzerker" type attack. Weapons are hard to hold onto when the blood starts to flow.
JulienBoit
12-21-10, 03:00
I spoke once with Fred Perrin, he was ( is still ? ) a trainer for ground and knife fighting for the GIGN in France.
He told me that within those 7 feet, a skilled man can kill you with the knife in just a couple of moves. A less skilled guy can still inflict very bad injuries.
His answer was : Just shot the guy down.
The best weapon for a knife fight is a 9x19.
I just don't get the techniques of gangsta stance for shooting.....
I like the part where they're sword fighting with ASP/MEB's.
HA! That was the ONLY redeeming part of the vid... at least I got a laugh. It looks like a dance move / collaboration between Jackie Chan and Michael Jackson!! :D
RE: the whole thing - At least I am "ready" now if / when I get attacked by intoxicated zombies who produce a weapon and JUST STAND THERE whilst I perform a complex series of 19 steps to gain an advantage! :rolleyes:
This is the kind of $#!t that can get people killed!
Its all good till they start to fight back:stop: DONT MOVE! I have to remember the sequence for when you throw a right jab...
I agree wholeheartedly. Whether its knife fighting, BJJ, or other self defense techniques, I can't see the benefit, beyond learning the very basics of a technique, to have an opponent/training partner who will just stand or lay there and let you have your way with them.
no1ofconsequence
01-11-11, 01:04
I agree wholeheartedly. Whether its knife fighting, BJJ, or other self defense techniques, I can't see the benefit, beyond learning the very basics of a technique, to have an opponent/training partner who will just stand or lay there and let you have your way with them.
Right! ... I CAN SEE the benefit of a PROM DATE like you described... but NOT a training partner!:D
(apologies in advance)
:laugh:
"Do not attempt this dangerous live fire drill".
WHAT?
Am I missing something? Because it really looks like he just shot 3 targets at close range....
I think you may have missed the two live men standing between the targets...
Suwannee Tim
01-14-11, 13:21
I am a Tactical Ninja High Speed Low Drag Tactical Delta Force Recon Seal Tactical Operator and I can tell you that this guy is the real deal. Your opponent comes at you, you parry, he freezes and you beat the stuffing out of him. You just have to know how to make your opponent freeze. That's what he's teaching. Oh, I'm not really a TNHSLDTDFRSTO. Really, I don't know a judo chop from a karate chop from a pork chop. Maybe I do know a pork chop when I see it. These guys are pork chops.
I'm on a diet, man! Why'd you have to bring up pork chops... ummm, pork chops.
Obviously this guy watched Southpark and trained under Butters.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtddFKCE4-U
Jump to about 1:30
Ha. I actually posted that video back in 2008 here:
http://tgace.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/this-is-what-im-talking-about/
Actually I sort of like the incorporation of stick/blade/gun that this guy does. The transition from empty hand to weapon drills have some value IMO. Lahner is a CSSD (http://www.cssdsc.com/) guy under Bram Frank. While I don't drink anybodies whole glass of kool-aid, a sip here and there to see how it tastes isn't always bad.
I addressed some of the gun issues in the comments and Lahner himself showed up and posted some replies.
Maybe I'm just a bit more open minded but I can seem some value in many of the things he was doing. I view it all as training so while we all know things will different when the opponent fights back ou must have a starting point and some training. That's a better option than running when you sometimes have no place to run.
A couple of techniques in this video don't seem that bad IMO. And keep in mind that videos like this are not supposed to show actual combat. It's supposed to show how the different techniques work. Of course the sparring partner doesn't fight back in this video. What would be the point of that? For example when I do some sparring with totally inexperienced people, I don't just punch them in the face or knee them in the groin when they try something. You let your partner work until they get it right and then you step up to the next level and fight back.
As far at the sideways shooting goes... I do that too when shooting one handed at close range at a target that stands on my right side. Feels much more natural than pointing the gun with the sights up. Especially since I don't use them in that situation anyway. (notice that this is the only scenario where they hold the pistol sideways in the video, not for normal shooting)
People should be a little more open minded and try some stuff out before criticizing.
A couple of techniques in this video don't seem that bad IMO. And keep in mind that videos like this are not supposed to show actual combat. It's supposed to show how the different techniques work. Of course the sparring partner doesn't fight back in this video. What would be the point of that? For example when I do some sparring with totally inexperienced people, I don't just punch them in the face or knee them in the groin when they try something. You let your partner work until they get it right and then you step up to the next level and fight back.
As far at the sideways shooting goes... I do that too when shooting one handed at close range at a target that stands on my right side. Feels much more natural than pointing the gun with the sights up. Especially since I don't use them in that situation anyway. (notice that this is the only scenario where they hold the pistol sideways in the video, not for normal shooting)
People should be a little more open minded and try some stuff out before criticizing.
I saw it the same as you.
Right! ... I CAN SEE the benefit of a PROM DATE like you described... but NOT a training partner!:D
(apologies in advance)
If only I could have convinced my prom date of that. It would have ruined me for life! :D
Apologies for the derail, back to the regularly scheduled programming.
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