View Full Version : Status report; Gen 4 Glocks
Larry Vickers
12-17-10, 06:43
To all
Let me hear everyones recent experiences with the new Gen 4 Glocks - from what I have seen and heard a lot of the problems have been addressed and word has it limited to the first few months of production - the last few I have seen in classes work fine
I am all ears
LAV
Gen 4 g17, test fire date late October, 0-2-1 spring. Put about 300 rounds of federal champion 115gr through it in 2 familiarization range trips, then put 1100 rounds of AE 124gr fmj through it in 2 days for department training. No malfunctions or issues of any kinds. There were 4 other new officers there with me. 1 experienced what appeared to be magazine related malfunctions on one occasion, but hadn't numbered his mags so we couldn't confirm. All of the 4 experienced FTEs a few times, but I think most of this could be attributed to a weak grip.
Just this past Tuesday, we had a regular at my work leave his G17 Gen4 with us so we could put as many rounds down range between 4 people. The gun already had roughly 1000rds through her before we started. Between the 4 of us, we were able to put 950 more rounds through her within 9 hour work day using military issued ball and crane issued 9MM 124gr HP. None of us had any stoppages, malfunctions, nor breakages. It basically ran like a top. We didn't notice any bi recoil changes between the Gen3 and Gen4. We all own G17 gen3s and use them for competition, training, etc. I don't know about the other guys, but my reloads are faster with the Vickers extended mag release. Then again, I probably have 20000+ runs on it from dry fire practice.
I have one of the "problem" glocks. My G-19 was one of the first several out and has an 03 spring in it. After reading reports and with my own experiences, I quickly determined it did NOT like to eat softer loads. As a reloader, I had dialed in a soft 115 grain load that cycled mt previously owned M&P9 and ended up with several failure to feeds. Upon inspection it was obvious that the slide was not being forced back far enough, as rounds were getting stuck going up the ramp with the slide catching the round in the gap between the case rim and case wall. I'm certain there is a name for this gap but its escaping me at the moment.
My last qualification, we were given some 115gr blazer aluminum rounds to shoot. They shot extremely soft and I remember thinking "oh I'm going to have some ftfs today.." Surprisingly I only ended up with 1, and while I didn't have time to do a complete inspection, a quick look at the slide position and angle of the round that failed to feed left me confident that the same error had occurred.
There is no question that the recoil spring is heavier. One simply needs to rack the slide back next to any other 9mm to realize that. I have read a vocal few who report that these ftf issues are due to a redesigned extractor and not the spring. While these extractors may be causing some issues in some guns, to dismiss the changes in recoil weight and its effect on feeding ignores the laws of physics.
As a reloader, the solution was simple for me. I knew my gun was 100% at feeding +P duty ammo, so I simply upped my powder charge and moved on with life. My gun has been 100% with this hotter load, and I began to notice an unexpected but very desirable side effect of this gun. With an 03 spring, my gen4 glock 19 shoots hot +P rounds extremely soft and flat. Competition shooters quite often drop their powder charges to achieve faster split times and greater shot on shot accuracy. It seems obvious to me that this is a wonderful "feature" (whether intended by Glock or not) in a self defense or LE application utilizing +P ammo.
I recognize that not everyone has the desire to make their own ammo or purchase +P ammo to practice with. I also recognize that there are people that desire a gun that will shoot absolutely anything they feed their gun, and this gun with this recoil assembly is probably not going to satisfy them. Glock has apparently issued an 04 spring for the glock 19 and an 021 spring for the glock 17. These springs are reported to be lighter and address the issues of cycling softer loads. It is not unexpected that people also report a noticeable increase in felt recoil while shooting +P ammo.
For me, I am very happy with my gen4 g19 with its 03 spring. I realize I may have feeding issues while on the range, but I prefer the extemely low felt recoil shooting self defense ammo. I am not aware of which series springs are currently being shipped with new glocks by default, but I hope the 03 (and 02 if you have a g17) springs are still available for those of us who prefer them.
If it matters, my background is that nof a full time firefighter paramedic and a part time police officer. In Ohio, all officers are trained to the same level whether full time, part time, or auxiliary. I carry my Gen4 Glock 19 with a tlr-1 on duty.
Shot a friend's brand new gen 4 Glock 17 in a pistol class last weekend. About 500 rounds total with zero malfunctions. Ammo used was 115grs Fiocchi 9mm, which is loaded a little hotter than average, so no problems with a heavier recoil spring.
Some local dept's we've sold on Gen4 9mm's have been happy with their performance in T&E. These are with guns made after October (and some made in late November).
Email sent with details.
I just posted the results of my 2000 round challenge with a Gen 4 G19. In a nutshell, I like it. I like the grip texture, the changeable backstrap and the magazine release. I ran the gun with the large backstrap and added a set of Warren sights.
The gun was purchased new in August and was only broken apart to make sure everything was where it was supposed to be. No lube, etc was added to the gun, just ran it as it came from the factory. The gun had a total of 2 FTE's over the course of the challenge. One FTE with a handload and one with a Tula 115fmj with no mag in the gun. We replicated the no mag in the gun FTE 3 more times so I reckon this is to be expected.
The gun has the 03 spring in it but hasn't shown any issues with a variety of ammo to include WWB, Federal Champion, Tula, Wolf, handloads and Fed Tac.
ETA 1363 rounds of Walmart Federal Champion no issues, 588 rounds of Tula one FTE as stated above.
Steeltoe73
12-17-10, 10:45
I've been running a Gen4 22 on duty for about two months now. I've run about 1500 rds of Winchester Ranger through it. I have a TLR-1 mounted to it and no issues feeding. Even one handed shooting from behind a shield and no hiccups.
Our department is transitioning from SIG 226 (both 9 and .40) to the Gen4 Glock as we bring on new hires at the beginning of next year.
I have a Gen 4 17. I ran it through Ken's Handgun class in PA this past September. I have had the firearm since spring of 2010 and it has the orginal spring that was shipped out with the first batches. The 01 if you will? I have yet to have any malfunction of any type and I have fired all sorts of weak loads through it as well as hot carry rounds.
My only gripe is that the recoil spring does not seem to like to stay in the little notch on the barrel recess. Sometimes during break downs to clean the rod will completely fall out. I have noticed some wear and tear going on mainly on the underside of the barrel next to the guide rod. No realy noticeable frame wear, but I do only have about 3200 rounds through it thus far since I prefer the Gen 3 19 as my carry and training gun if possible.
I know of the after market recoil adapters for the new change in the slide itself, but is anyone else having the problem where the recess in the barrel and the thin metal backing of the recoil spring don't really mate up well together? It seems really easy to sway the recoil spring from side to side.
I may have to give the Glockmeister or Lonewolf deals a try to go to a more Gen 3ish feel.
Gents, let's reserve this thread for first hand experience only. There are plenty of other threads for questions (at this time just post your experience until LAV opens it up for questions) and "my sister's husband's third cousin, by marrage said so" posts.
Sir,
I purchased one earlier this year [Gen4 17]. During the first two mags there were issues with feeding. After that, faultless Glock like reliability. Ammo used was my own competition based reloads [124/125 gr FMJ @ 1090fps]. I blamed the reloads for the initial issues. I don't own it anymore, traded for a HK P-30. The gun was reliable, I traded for other reasons.
I have a 19 with 03 recoil spring (04 not out yet).
I had a couple FTE, FTL in one trip. This was the only trip I did not have the M backstrap on it. People are reporting that, although the smaller grip "feels" better in the hand, they get more muzzle flip. I'm guessing this, combined with being slightly oversprung for light loads (I was shooting Tula and cheap Federal), caused the malfunctions.
My opinion is, the gun isn't unreliable, it's just not tuned for target ammo. I've yet to hear anyone complain of an issue using defense ammo. I haven't tried any yet.
Shot a friend's brand new gen 4 Glock 17 in a pistol class last weekend. About 500 rounds total with zero malfunctions. Ammo used was 115grs Fiocchi 9mm, which is loaded a little hotter than average, so no problems with a heavier recoil spring.
That's good to know. I also had 0 malfunctions in about 100 rounds of Fiocchi. That was also with the M backstrap.
jdavis6576
12-17-10, 13:21
I have an early 19 purchased in July. I've run nothing but cheap Wally World Federal and a few boxes of Ranger Ts through it and after roughly 1,500 rounds I haven't had a single issue with it; no FTFs or FTEs. I did have one piece of empty brass hit me in the face but the following round loaded just fine. I have changed the trigger and trigger bar to a Gen3 G17, installed a Glock - connector, and polished it. I ran this through the LAV Basic Pistol class in Carthage in November and it ran very well.
I run the large back strap on it and that has made reloads slower than my Gen 3 with the Vickers mag release. At this point I'm carrying my Gen3 RTF2 but I'm impressed with the Gen4.
GunSlinger
12-17-10, 16:13
LAV,
*I have a 4thGen17 that I used at the "house clearing-active shooter" class you did last year at USTraining center. Since I had lack of faith in it's reliability for carry gun I set it up as a test bed for the RMR, that way I could test the Gen4 and RMR set up at the same time.
*The reliability with the first run of duel recoil springs was nothing short of abysmal. My friend and I will meet up for training sessions on a biweekly basis and usually end up*through a hundred rounds*or so of Winchester white box when done. I couldn't get through two mags without a failure to eject and many rounds in the face. I went through the paces with the 02 spring and couldn't personally discern any difference in spring resistance between the first recoil spring and the 02 version. As suspected the reliability with the 02 spring was just as bad if not worse.
*Even though I'm the first to advise people to leave their Glocks alone this case was an exception because it "was broke and did need fixin" I threw in a Jager aftermarket spring and the reliability issues vanished.
*one issue with the jager spring is the flange at the end is speced out a little too large and rubs the inside of the frame. I then tried the Glockmeister version and found it to be a higher overall quality and is what I recommend anyone with a 4th Gen to get. keep in mind the Glockmeister is captured and the Jager can be broke down to change the spring weight. I'm not sure so anyone who knows please chime in but I think neither of these use the stock oem springs or weights, if someone comes out with that product it would be ideal.
*On a positive note I've done some of the best pistol shooting of my life with this set up and have to give some of the credit to the grip being smaller. I have small hands and being able to get my trigger finger directly in front of the trigger allows me to pull the trigger directly to the rear much easier. Every little bit seems to count when it comes to handguns and small hands.
*hope this helped.
Cheers
Hanna
*
I bought my 17 Gen4 in July. So far I've put at least 3,000 rounds through it.
Mostly a mix of Ultramax, Brown Bear, Tula and CCI Lawman (mostly Ultramax).
So far no failures whatsoever. Although the trigger is a lot heavier then the Gen 3s.
But I fixed that issue. Also, it has the 02 spring.
Later in this thread a few people mentioned that their Gen4 shoots to the left.
Mine is dead on accurate.
I got an early Gen4 and the spring "locked" after my first day at the range (100 rounds) . Glock replaced the spring and it's run fine since (500 rounds of reloads)
Fourbits
I have (2) Gen4 19s. One with the glossier slide finish and one with the new matte finish. My primary (the early 19) has about 2500 rounds through it ... in about 30 days.
The 03 spring has been working just fine, but I'm now using an 04. The slide lock is easier to use as a slide release with the 04.
When is your new slide release due out? I could really use two.
Alpha Sierra
12-17-10, 20:02
My G17 Gen 4 was purchased on 8/12/10. In that time I have logged 2178 rounds through it. They have been a mixture of about 1/3 FMJ factory ammo and 2/3 hard cast lead reloads. Yep, it's the factory barrel. Nope, there is no lead buildup right in front of the throat. Only a little bit of lead near the muzzle and is no worse that other conventionally-rifled handguns I have.
It came with the original spring design and the non-counterbored slide. I suffered two FTEs in the first 359 rounds. I ordered the 02 spring from Glock and proceeded to run a one-day handgun class (550 rounds) without a hitch. I ran the gun through 250 more trouble free rounds when I decided that I had had it with the spring's front coil getting hung up on the rim of the slide's hole for the guide rod. While the pistol never locked up and I could always remove and reinstall the slide, getting the recoil spring/guide rod assembly off the slide was a constant pain in the ass and I could not discount the possibility that such an issue could lock the gun up.
So I bought a Glockmeister 17 lb single spring/guide rod assembly and installed it. So far I have run 994 rounds of various weights and velocities, factory and home made, without a single failure of any kind and field stripping the pistol is as easy as it should be.
If I had a pistol with a counterbore on the slide's guide rod hole, I would have kept the 02 spring since the CB cures the spring hangup problem. But I did not know about that fix until after I bought the GM guide rod and the GM rod/spring works so well and it is so easy to install that I will roll with it from now on.
I also had a trigger job done to it, including the installation of a Scherer 3.5 lb connector to get the trigger to a more manageable 5 lbs.
Alpha Sierra
12-17-10, 20:08
I'm not sure so anyone who knows please chime in but I think neither of these use the stock oem springs or weights,
While the Glockmeister spring assembly uses a non-Glock spring, GM advertises their 17 lb unit to be "factory weight". I assume they mean G17 Gen 3 factory weight.
Whatever the weight is in reality, it doesn't matter to me. My pistol runs and runs and eats whatever I feed it and that's what matters the most IMO.
Gen IV Model 17. Initially, I had a few (three or four incidents) of failure to cycle. SOME of it was me coming off of shooting 1911s (insensitive to limp wristing) but after, maybe, 500 rounds I've had ZERO issues with it. I've even been using as a training pistol for those who have not fired a pistol before and even diminutive persons shoot it with no issues which is somewhat surprising as it has to be more sensitive to "limp wristing" (though locking the support hand wrist eradicates this - at least for me).
It's so good I want another...
I purchased two Glock 19 Gen 4 pistols several months ago, both with the "03" recoil spring. I have shot perhaps a 1500 rounds through each of assorted Winchester White Box, the cheap Federal stuff from Wal-Mart, and CCI Blazer aluminum. One of them digested it all without incident. The other had periodic failure to extract problems from the beginning.
After about 400 hundred rounds with the problem Glock and deciding that by then it wasn't some kind of break-in issue, I called Glock customer service about this issue, and I was told by the representative that the Glock Gen 4 had a heavier spring designed to work with full-powered defensive ammunition, and that it was unsurprising that I was having problems with relatively less powerful cheap training ammo. He moreover said that there would eventually be a Glock factory reduced-power recoil spring, but in the meantime, he recommended that I purchase a Glockmeister aftermarket recoil spring assembly (which would bring the spring to the weight of a Gen 3) if I wanted it to cycle the cheap training ammo more reliably.
I ordered the Glockmeister spring. But before I received it, I went shooting again, and then the "03" recoil spring in the problem pistol bound up in such a way that it would only compress about a centimeter or so before refusing to compress any further. Luckily I was able to disassemble the pistol to remove the spring, and by various twisting and compressing motions I was eventually able to get the spring to fully compress itself.
I swapped this recoil spring with the other Glock 19 Gen 4, which then had extraction problems culminating in the same lock up.
I tossed the bad Glock "03" spring and called Glock for a replacement. They sent one immediately without question. By then I had also received the Glockmeister spring, and it worked perfectly. Eventually I tried out the new "03" spring as well, and it too worked perfectly.
I have a Gen4 G19 with an 03 spring that I have put about 800-1000 rounds through.
I have only had on failure of any kind and it was during a night shooting class where I was shooting for the first time with a light while the light was in the process of falling off my gun. So...probably my fault.
I have been very happy with the gun overall running factory ammo.
I have run the following successfully through my gun.
American Eagle FMJ 115gr
American Eagle FMJ 124gr
Independence FMJ 115gr
Federal HST 124gr
Federal HST 147gr +p
I purchased my Gen4 G17 in mid April 2010 for what was meant to be a quick and rigorous T&E for potential consideration for a large metro PD's full time SWAT unit. I was more interested in the initial impressions on the Gen4 platform and wasn't as concerned about the caliber at that time as we were aware of scheduled models to be done in the Gen4 as we are seeing now.
I ran up to 2400 error free rounds very quickly. Over a 300 round period I experienced some failures to eject and some lock backs on a partially full magazine. Possibilities were discussed in this thread..
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=53356
No changes were made to that weapon and the problem stopped as quickly as it started. I ran it up to just over 6K rounds in about 2 1/2 months of testing which included a 3K round test without adding lube or cleaning. No issues at all. Quite sure it would have kept going for a few thousand more. Here is a review I did....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTVX8TUCVe0
I currently have right at 10K through it. I have only had a couple of FTE but that was with unleaded, frangible rounds and definitely a problem as a result of the ammo and not the weapon.
Overall I really like the Gen4 ergo's and how it shoots. The trigger pull is heavier as the geometry on the rear trigger mechanisms housing around the disconnector is different than the Gen3's. Glock will tell you that this was on purpose but it wasn't. ;)
Four Gen 4's here and combined we've fired 10.7K through them without a stoppage yet. The two 17s have their original unmarked recoil spring unit (purchased in March and April). The 19s have the 03 unit.
Gen 4 G17 5426 rds
Gen 4 G17 2500 rds
Gen 4 G19 2485 rds
Gen 4 G19 350 rds
I observed the phenom of the recoil spring sticking in the slide during field strip the first couple of times disassembling but not since and not with the 19s (recessed mod on inside of slide were recoil spring seats).
I like the trigger quality - smoothness and break; but also like the "-" connector in them better. I'd est that this gives it a trigger weight between a Gen 3 with 5.5 connector and a Gen 3 with a "-" connector.
but also like the "-" connector in them better. I agree. That's what I settled on as well.
Robb Jensen
12-18-10, 10:48
To all
Let me hear everyones recent experiences with the new Gen 4 Glocks - from what I have seen and heard a lot of the problems have been addressed and word has it limited to the first few months of production - the last few I have seen in classes work fine
I am all ears
LAV
I had two early versions both non-counter bored slides (for the recoil spring assy). I sold the Gen 4 Glock 17 but kept the Gen 4 Glock 22. The 22 is running fine. I have 3900 rounds through it with no failures or stoppages of any kind. I do use "-" connectors and Gen 3 Glock 17/22 trigger bars to get the pull weights down a bit. On both guns I use Warren Tactical sights.
The Gen 3 Glock 17 I put just over 4K rounds through before selling it. The 17 had some issues with original non-marked recoil spring assy. These unmarked springs are now .40 recoil springs. I experimented with the 17 a little. I used the Jager recoil rod assembly but with a Gen 2/3 spring on it and it work about 99% with 115gr standard pressure ammo. I also modified a stock unmarked Gen 4 recoil spring assy but cut off 6 coils off the large spring. I shot a lot of rounds with it like that and it ran 100% with standard pressure 115gr and 147gr I didn't try any NATO or +P ammo like that and wouldn't recommend it. Before selling it I bought some of the 02 springs from Glock and shot a few hundred rounds through it like that. With the limited amount of ammo I shot through the Gen 4 Glock 17 with the 02 spring it did shoot 100% without failures or stoppages of any kind and actually felt a little better in recoil than a Gen 2/3 Glock 17. I still think it needs more time before I'd suggest one over a Gen 3. I think the Gen 4 is right for the .40 cal pistols but is a bit too much for the 9mms. I think that Glock should have just left the Gen 3 style uppers alone but just used the new frames.
Current Glocks I own:
Gen 2 Glock 19
Gen 2 Glock 17
Gen 3 Glock 32
Gen 4 Glock 22
I do want to get a Gen 4 Glock 35 at some point.
For USPSA and 3gun competition I'm using a 5" S&W M&P 9 Pro and a 5" S&W M&P 40 Pro. The .40 allows me to shoot Limited and Limited-10 and make Major power factor. For Production and Outlaw 3gun I use the 9mm M&P Pro where there is no power factor.
mike benedict
12-18-10, 10:58
My Gen 4 19 had numerous FTF and FTE malfunctions with both the 0 3 and 0 4 recoil spring guides. The 0 4 was much improved over the 0 3 but still had quite a few malfunctions.
Since changing to the Gen 3 recoil spring guide with an adapter it has some 1500 trouble free rounds through it.
ammo has been 115 and 147gr ball plus some 124 gr +p Gold Dot
My gen 4 G19 only has 400 or so rounds through it. Mine has the 03 spring. The cheapest ammo was 115gr CCI Blaser (aluminum case). I had one stove pipe with the CCI. Other ammo used was Winchester Rangers, Speer Golddots and some Federal. All were heavier grain 124's and some 147's. Haven't shot any +p or +p+ yet.
Glock did send me the 04 spring, got in the mail this past week. Haven't used it yet. Unfortunately my round count isn't high enough to make much of a determination on reliability.
My dept went to the Gen4 G22 in late summer (about 45 guns), no choice in what to carry. No function issues of note. We have had one front sight come loose. Some people think felt recoil is lesser then the Gen3 guns but I can't really tell. Every gun has a TLR1 on it, there have been no issues with that at all. I personally shelved mine in favor of a Surefire X300, again no issues. I've fired it with three different light mounted (old Insight M3 we had lying around, TLR1 and X300), worked every time.
Overall (aside from the lack of choice for officers) we like them better than the Gen3. Qual scores went up slightly, I attribute that to the adjustable grip.
We did have one interesting complaint about it. I was running the range one night while my boss was shooting. His brass kept coming back straight into his face, hitting him on the right lens of his shooting glasses. I thought maybe the ejector was damaged or something but it looked normal. I shot it and didn't have the problem. He never had this issue with the Gen3. I'm thinking it's due to his using a slightly different grip as compared to the Gen3 since he's using the large backstrap and he's a leftie.
Interestingly, most of the lefties decided NOT to switch the mag release to the other side since they had been training with the Gen3 guns since 2000 and didn't want to re-train themselves. We gave them the option and made them at least try it before deciding.
Our practice ammo is Speer LAWMAN 180 gen CF TMJ. No issues with this. The duty ammo is Gold Dot 180 grn. Haven't seen any issues with feeding, ejection etc either.
I had an early Gen4 17 that was anything but inspiring and sold it after 1200 rounds.
No backstrap addition felt the best for my medium hands, but the medium addition let me shoot the best and kept the brass out of my face. The medium gave me only a texture advantage over my Gen 3's.
I may never buy another Gen 4.
I am still trying to figure out what Glock was trying to accomplish with redesigning the mechanics of the gun for the 9. Were they trying to keep a common spring?? If so, that did not work out too well for them, and since they had to maintain spares for the older ones - WTF were they thinking?
The slides of the 40 and the 9 have to be different anyway, so there was really no good reason, that I see, to modify anything other than the grip and mag release for the 9.
mrosamilia
12-18-10, 16:17
Took my new Gen 4 17 to the range today to try to wring it out. I had 200 rounds of WWB with me and decided to run through it as fast as I could and see what happens. I had zero malfunctions other than a dead primer that my P226 would not fire either.
Weather was 26 degrees and my spring is of the unmarked variety. The test casing was shot and marked March of 2010. I plan on shooting at least another 500 out of the gun over the holiday break and mixing up the ammo.
I purchased my Gen 4 Glock 17 in August (if I remember right) this year with the intention of it becoming my IDPA pistol. It came with the 02 spring installed and the counter bored slide hole for the recoil spring. To date I have 985 rounds through it. The only malfunction I experienced was induced by me when my thumb engaged the slide release during a string of fire. All ammunition has been factory Federal 115 grain. Although subjective, my regular shooting partners told me that the pistol has even less visible muzzle flip than the "Gen 3" I was using before that.
There is a lady that shoots with us with an early release Gen 4. I've witnessed her have multiple malfunctions during our practice nights. She has the original unmarked recoil assembly and non machined slide.
Observations complete.
Alpha Sierra
12-19-10, 07:52
There is a lady that shoots with us with an early release Gen 4. I've witnessed her have multiple malfunctions during our practice nights. She has the original unmarked recoil assembly and non machined slide.
Please urge her to get a Glockmeister 17 lb Gen 4 recoil spring/guide rod assembly. It is a single captured spring that basically turns the Gen 4 into a Gen 3.
IDK if Glock is accepting non-counterbored slides for rework, but even if they are, I am sure it is faster and cheaper to just buy a GM recoil spring and be done with it.
IMO, the Gen 4 w/o the counterbored slide NEEDS the Glockmeister spring to run reliably 100% of the time. Yes, I know several here have had 100% reliability with the original design. But not all of us have. What I do know is that while the 02 spring in a non-counterbored slide fixed my FTEs, it did not fix the spring binding in the slide issue.
The GM part fixes both in one go.
Please urge her to get a Glockmeister 17 lb Gen 4 recoil spring/guide rod assembly. It is a single captured spring that basically turns the Gen 4 into a Gen 3.
IDK if Glock is accepting non-counterbored slides for rework, but even if they are, I am sure it is faster and cheaper to just buy a GM recoil spring and be done with it.
IMO, the Gen 4 w/o the counterbored slide NEEDS the Glockmeister spring to run reliably 100% of the time. Yes, I know several here have had 100% reliability with the original design. But not all of us have. What I do know is that while the 02 spring in a non-counterbored slide fixed my FTEs, it did not fix the spring binding in the slide issue.
The GM part fixes both in one go.
Did you see any differences in muzzle flip between the two recoil systems?
Robb Jensen
12-19-10, 10:35
Did you see any differences in muzzle flip between the two recoil systems?
When I used a G17 Gen 3 spring on the Jager rod it felt just like a Gen 3. The dual spring really does a good job at keeping the muzzle down.
IMO, the Gen 4 w/o the counterbored slide NEEDS the Glockmeister spring to run reliably 100% of the time. Yes, I know several here have had 100% reliability with the original design. But not all of us have. What I do know is that while the 02 spring in a non-counterbored slide fixed my FTEs, it did not fix the spring binding in the slide issue.
The GM part fixes both in one go.
The "02-1" spring fixes that problem too, as it is made for non-counterbored slides.
Alpha Sierra
12-19-10, 14:11
Did you see any differences in muzzle flip between the two recoil systems?
Yes, the dual springs do tame muzzle rise some.
Alpha Sierra
12-19-10, 14:12
The "02-1" spring fixes that problem too, as it is made for non-counterbored slides.
Did not know such a thing existed. I will have to call Glock tomorrow.
davebee456
12-19-10, 14:21
now i am tempted for a gen4
Now i wonder if mr vickers has changed his mind about the 45acp Glock 21sf?
Shot mine for the first time yesterday, "03" spring.
Only put about 200 rds through it, but zero malfunctions so far. 150rds Winchester Ranger NATO and 50rds of blazer.
Like it, but not sure if I like it any better than the Gen3 G19.
Ga Shooter
12-19-10, 20:49
I have 2 Gen 4 G17 non machined slides (no counterbore) no marking on springs.
Pistol 1 1200 rounds no problems mostly Green Box Rem 115gr range ammo
Pistol 2 250 rounds no problems mostly Green Box Rem 115gr range ammo
Both have been 100% reliable.
In addition both have a couple of boxes of Winchester Ranger for function test no problems.
Would like to see a Vicker's mag release come out for them. Hint Hint :laugh:
FChen17213
12-19-10, 23:49
I have one of the first Gen4 G17s with the recoil spring assembly that would get stuck all the time during field stripping. First 200 or so rounds ran flawlessly. Then I started getting some stovepipes and FTEs with weak ammo. Now after 2000 rounds or so, it seems "fine" although I should probably get an upgraded spring.
The Gen4 G19 I have was also one of the first ones out at my gun store. Over 2000 rounds....flawless with all sorts of ammo. Don't know if I'm going to get an 0-4 spring.
Nonetheless, I still have much more confidence in my Gen3s. I just keep shooting Gen3 19s without cleaning and I know that they just don't jam....even after thousands and thousands of rounds without cleaning.
LAV, I believe you are correct in your observations. This past spring and summer a couple of large west coast LE agencies had SIGNIFICANT, SEVERE malfunctions and parts breakages that rendered early 4th Gen Glocks completely inoperable until armorer intervention. These pistols were utterly unworthy of duty use. While Glock initially prevaricated and threatened, a Glock engineer essentially admitted the early 4th gen Glocks were not ready for prime time, but that numerous improvements had been introduced to try and fix things. Several weeks ago, a new batch of 4th gen Glocks arrived that do indeed seem to be working well. Unfortunately, Glock may have burned some bridges with their behavior this year... I am still running my 3rd gen Glock 9 mm's and have had no problems over many thousands of rounds.
platoonDaddy
12-20-10, 06:59
Gen 4 G17 with "02" spring and no counter-bore
Currently over 3K rounds downrange and only issues occurred between 800-900 on four different magazines. Called Glock and they mailed me another "02" spring, which I haven't yet installed. For whatever reason the problem of FTF, FTE and stovepipes are history. Haven't changed ammo, still use walMart 115gr.
My cuz has a Gen 4 G19 with 2.5K rounds downrange and only one stovepipe with the "03" spring that occurred around the 500 mark.
Now for your question: they are so many versions of springs for the G17 & G19 and now G17's being released with counter-bore. One would assume that with all the options available, the shooter will find a combination that will work in their specific weapon.
.
Just got a gen 4 glock 19, have no idea what number the recoil spring is, cleaned and lubed it as I do all my weapons. Took to range and put 350 trouble free rounds of federal 115 grn fmj from wally world thru it. Now to see what back strap works the best for me.
Just a heads up, expanding on my last post.
My failures (as read on page one) were all during the only range session where I used the L backstrap. I haven't had any failures with my M backstrap. Now, I use my backstrap as a "gap filler" or to give it a grip reduced feel on the hump. Not sure if that makes a difference, but figured I'd give all the details. Anyway, to test my theory, I held the Glock in my right hand with and without the backstrap, and pulled straight back on the muzzle with my left hand. With the M strap, I could not pull it back no matter how hard I tried. With the L strap, I could pull it back. I tried this about 10 times, going back and forth between the L and M straps.
Long story short, this could be a combination of oversprung/using a smaller grip that ends up with a lot of people limp wristing their pistols.
So what would be nice is to have people who have had issues also post what backstrap they are using when the issues occur.
I do think that this is irrelevant to people who have had issues with their early G17 gen4 slides.
Ga Shooter
12-21-10, 06:19
Well just so all data is given. Both of mine have a Ghost 3.5lb connector. Only one lube with TW25B and running Ameriglo Hack sights. No backstrap.
My Glock 17 Gen4 came with the unmarked recoil spring. I had several failure to feed shooting weak hand with my weaker reloads. Since I upped the charge a little bit, it's 100% reliable. My G17 now have more than 2000 rounds down the pipe with zero malfunction.
ffhounddog
12-23-10, 07:35
30 Glock 22 Gen4s all running well from all reports. We shot all 30 when we got them 200 rounds each then went and did our quals with the other 15 that are issued out. They other 15 were cleaned and hermedically sealed. Mine I have qualed twice with it and it still runs well. Just using slip 2000 that for the pistol lube dont know if that makes a difference.
mrosamilia
12-24-10, 21:58
Update 500 more rounds today out of my 03-10 dated 17. My gun has no machining or spring marks and have not had a hicup in 1000 rounds including many shot hard out of a 31 round mag
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
mrosamilia
12-24-10, 21:59
Update 500 more rounds today out of my 03-10 dated 17. My gun has no machining or spring marks and have not had a hicup in 1000 rounds including many shot hard out of a 31 round mag.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
mrosamilia
12-24-10, 22:01
Sorry learning my phone controls double post unintended
trooper430
12-27-10, 07:42
GEN 4 G22 - MSHP switched again this year. This is my 4th Glock in 16 years with the MSHP. Do prefer the new grip over the RTF. The RTF tore the heck out of the lining of suit coats and uniform shirts. So far no problem with the new Glocks. We run TLR-1 and they work just fine. Now if we can just get a holster that you can use with the light attached.
varoadking
12-27-10, 12:40
Glock 17 Gen4 - PFDxxx: Early model (Feb 2010) with no upgrades. Over 3,750 rounds of 115 grain WWB with the original unmarked spring without a failure of any kind.
Glock 22 Gen4 - PNBxxx: No upgrades. Over 650 rounds of 115 grain WWB with the original unmarked spring without a failure of any kind.
Glock 19 Gen4 - PYXxxx: Only several weeks old. 300 rounds of 115 grain WWB with the original spring without a failure of any kind. Counterbored slide. Spring changed in favor of a Glockmeister 18# captured system on a whim. 200 rounds of 115 grain WWB with the Glockmeister spring without a failure of any kind.
Glock 35 Gen4 - RAExxx: 100 rounds of 115 grain WWB with the original spring without a failure of any kind. Counterbored slide. I plan on converting it to a 9mm piece with a KKM barrel.
I'll be purchasing another G17 thru the GSSF program next week.
donlapalma
12-27-10, 13:25
Purchased a G19 back in July 2010. It has the 03 recoil spring. All sorts of FMJ and JHP have been through it for a total of 1,550 rounds to date with zero malfunctions . Only modification made was the installation of a smooth faced trigger.
G17 with unmarked spring, purchased 2 weeks ago with a fire date of 4/2010. I use the large backstrap.
I have ~600 trouble free rounds. Rounds have all been a mix of WWB and PMC 124g with rapid fire, weak hand, trying to limp wrist it.
No hiccups at all.<knocks on wood>
I had two Gen4s, a G19 and a G23. The G19 was problematic - would not reliably run on our mandated 147 gr JHP for love or money. After multiple attempts to have Glock send me a "04" spring, or whatever version they got to in the G19 line, I stopped trying. It also shaved polymer off the "frame voids" and into the trigger mechanism, resulting in trigger failure to reset, on three different occasions. In it's defense, after the last instance of this happening, the polymer shaving did not reoccur, and the pistol was dead nuts reliable through an additional 3,000 rounds. Accuracy was definitely sub-par - 5-6" at 25 yards rested, with a number of different accomplished shooters.
The G23 was reliable, but the accuracy was lackluster (noticeably worse than the older, much used 3rd Gen G23 I used to have), and the POI/POA was RADICALLY off to the left - even with sights drifted all the way right, I was 3-5" off to the left at 25 yards. Recoil reduction with the new dual spring was noticeable, but not significant - I still had sore wrists at the end of a 200-300 round range session (though, in the pistol's defense, our issued ammunition is VERY VERY hot, even for .40 S&W. I've yet to find ANY pistol that I'm comfortable shooting high round counts with in this load) I only had about 500 rounds through it before I sold it - and it was just starting to develop the frame void shavings, so I'm not sure if there was a repeat of the dead trigger syndrome...
I'm back to shooting a 3rd Gen G19 which is dead nuts reliable with EVERYTHING I feed it, and accurate enough for my purposes.
I'm actually pretty depressed about the whole issue, because I REALLY wanted to love the Gen4 guns. The grip "reduction" is "just enough" to make an improvement, the stippling is grippy enough without being abusive. When Glock has them running right, I'll probably give them another go, but, for me right now, I've done enough live Beta testing for my taste...
Regards,
Kevin
varoadking
12-28-10, 14:23
POI/POA was RADICALLY off to the left - even with sights drifted all the way right...
I have found that all 4 of my Gen4's shoot somewhat left without drifting the rear sight to the right, but I figured it was just me...
I have found that all 4 of my Gen4's shoot somewhat left without drifting the rear sight to the right, but I figured it was just me...
Mine shot way left too.
I expected it to be a little off, the notch in my Henie rear sights are off-center (.005"), but to bring the POI to the right. Apparently he does this because so many folks complain of the low-left POI.
I have found that all 4 of my Gen4's shoot somewhat left without drifting the rear sight to the right, but I figured it was just me...Not sure if it's something to do with the redesign of the pistol, but all my 3rd Gen Glocks shoot POA/POI with the rear sight basically centered up in the slide, so there seems to be something going on here with the Gen4s...
Regards,
Kevin
varoadking
12-28-10, 16:49
Not sure if it's something to do with the redesign of the pistol, but all my 3rd Gen Glocks shoot POA/POI with the rear sight basically centered up in the slide, so there seems to be something going on here with the Gen4s...
Regards,
Kevin
I can't rule out that it's me, but I don't recall having to drift the rear sight with my Gen3's...ever...
The four Gen 4's here have not displayed any difference in hitting left than our Gen 2s and Gen 3s.
Now these Gen 4s do have heavier stock triggers . . . . just sayin'.
Both of my 19s hit to the left, confirmed by another shooter, both shooting supported.
I lighten the Gen 4 triggers, I really like the 4.5 lb connector with the new dimpled trigger bar.
varoadking
12-28-10, 20:04
I lighten the Gen 4 triggers, I really like the 4.5 lb connector with the new dimpled trigger bar.
Likewise...
I purchased a Gen4 19 In August of this year. The day after purchasing it I attended an NRA PPOH Advanced class. Prior to shooting I cleaned and lubed the pistol. The first shot of the day was a failure to extract. Cleared the shell via sweep and continued on. About 250 rounds later I encountered a "Serious" malfunction/parts breakage. While running a figure eight drill I shot the pistol and the magazine dropped, actually Few, from the pistol. At the same time there was a failure to extract. I inserted an fresh magazine, tapped, racked and finished the drill. I went on to fire another 50 rounds with no problem. Upon completion of the class I decided to clear the weapon, disassemble and inspect for potential damage. The first thing I noticed was that the Slide Lock was missing. Simply pulling the trigger on an empty chamber would allow the slide to come off. Next I found remnants of the Slide Lock Spring. No further damage was noted.
I returned the pistol my dealer for repair/inspection. They replaced the Slide Lock Spring, and Slide Lock.
Since then I have fired another 500 rounds with no malfunctions, breakages, or stoppages.
This is a PUY serial gun.
The pistol still has the #3 spring, and has a Counter Bored Slide.
My suspicion is that I overloaded a magazine, with caused the issue. The spent case was not damaged.
TC
Sir,
My wife carries a GEN 4 G22 as her primary duty weapon. She was issued the firearm about three months ago, coming from a GEN 3 G17.
Her department mandates the use of the Green 8 Pound "New York" trigger. (cringe)
Since being issued this G22, she has practiced extensively using dry fire, presentation, and reset drills. The only negative comment I can come up with about this handgun, is the trigger that her department mandates. She realizes that she has to work with it, and we will be doing some more range time after the new year.
I have read and enjoyed your article on trigger pull weight for a handgun.
To date, she has fired approximately 400 rounds through her G22. I have fired exactly three magazines through it. She nor I have experienced any issues with her GEN 4 G22. The ammo used so far, has been Winchester Ranger (T-Series) 180 grain and Winchester White Box 180 grain.
Most noticeable to me, aside from the RTF was the magazine release. For my large hands, it works as well or better than my extended magazine release on my G34.
No feeding issues, no failure to fire, failure to extract issues either. So far, it runs as well as any of our other Glocks, but has a low round count on it.
trooper430
12-29-10, 10:16
We run the 4.5 lb trigger in our Glocks. Having carried a .357 as my first law enforcement weapon the conversion to Glocks was not hard. So far the Gen 4 has functioned well.
I have a little over 2000 rounds through my Gen4 22 with no malfunctions of any kind. It is an early gun and not counter bored where the RSA seats in the front of the slide. I recently put a Glockmeister RSA in it and have not had any problems with it either.
I only have about 250 rounds through my Gen4 23. No malfunctions there either. It is counter bored. I have used both the regular RSA and a Glockmeister RSA. Both work, but I believe the spring in the Glockmeister kit is a little light. It fails the Glock recoil spring test, but the gun functions fine.
I just brought home a Gen4 35 yesterday. Will get out early next week to shoot it.
I have an early 22, no counterbore. I put 200 rnds through it with the standard RSA installed. No failures at all, but the RSA kept shifting off of the barrel lug each time and as a result, scratched the frame. Glock replaced the RSA with a new one, 01 if I remember right, and I've put about 300 rnds down range since then. Ran perfect and the RSA seems to stay put so far. Also, I shoot it with the med. backstrap. All ammo was Blazer training ammo.
mrosamilia
12-29-10, 19:18
I would like to ask Larry what he has seen in his classes as time as passed and if he recommends them yet or not?
We run the 4.5 lb trigger in our Glocks. Having carried a .357 as my first law enforcement weapon the conversion to Glocks was not hard. So far the Gen 4 has functioned well.
I was told that it is a 3.5 lb trigger. There were several 4th gen G22's in my academy class that had issues and a few had to go back to Glock.
FWIW: A Gen4 trigger bar with a 4.5 lb Glock Connector (the -) yields a 5.3# pull
FWIW: A Gen4 trigger bar with a 4.5 lb Glock Connector (the -) yields a 5.3# pull
And in reality a Gen 3 with a 5.5 connector typically runs more around 6lbs yes?
Your measurement sounds exactly like my sense from calibrated trigger fingers since we've put "-" connectors in four Gen 4 9mms. Thanks for that piece of measured data.
...our issued ammunition is VERY VERY hot, even for .40 S&W.
Can you tell us what that is?
Thanks,
Okie John
Can you tell us what that is?
Thanks,
Okie John
It's a Federal 155gr JHP - I don't believe they market a civilian equivalent for it. It's certainly nothing special - doesn't show any signs of being a bounded round.
I'm lacking a chronograph right now, so I can only tell you what my 5-fingered pain meters tell me. I shot a S&W M&P40 over the holidays with a variety of 180gr JHP loads, and found it very pleasant - to the point where I thought I was going to add that pistol to my "buy list." Then I switched to our issued JHP, and decided I'd just stick with 9mm for a while...
Regards,
Kevin
FWIW: A Gen4 trigger bar with a 4.5 lb Glock Connector (the -) yields a 5.3# pullHas anyone heard from Glock if they're now classifying the "-" connector in the Gen4 as a "carry/duty" approved set up? For the 3rd Gen pistols, Glock has consistently held the line that the "-" connectors were for competition/range use only...
Regards,
Kevin
And in reality a Gen 3 with a 5.5 connector typically runs more around 6lbs yes?
Mine is 5.75#
And in reality a Gen 3 with a 5.5 connector typically runs more around 6lbs yes?
Mine is 5.75#, so there's about 7oz's of difference.
I prefer the Gen4/4.5 setup because it's a more consistent pull throughout, rather than a stock 2 stage pull.
It's a Federal 155gr JHP - I don't believe they market a civilian equivalent for it.
Thanks.
Okie John
CommackBoy
01-04-11, 08:14
I have two Gen 4 Glock 19s. Both came with 03 springs. The first one kept giving me malfunctions until about 300 rounds through the gun. It only happens with low grain ammo such as 114 grain and 125 grain. Does not happen with 147. I replaced the 03 spring for the 04 spring on the 2nd Glock 19 as soon as I got it from the store. Took to the range yesterday and it was a complete disaster. With 125 grain ammo I would get a malfunction (at least in the beginning) pretty much every other shot. After about 150 rounds it has gotten a little better. When I switched to a 114 grain ammo and the gun would not cycle at all. Could not even eject some of the rounds. I never had such a bad experience with Gen 3 Glock 19. I hope it will get better after another 200-300 rounds but it is not acceptable.
I think it might be helpful if folks posted their 3 letter serial number prefix along with their reports.
I've run into a number of shooters with recently produced 4th Gen 19's that are running just fine...so if someone gets a stale one that was sitting on a shelf all this time, it might help clue everyone in with why their experience is so different than others.
CageFighter
01-04-11, 13:18
I have approx 5-600+ rounds thru my G19 Gen4 and NO problems whatsoever. I am so happy with it, I just ordered a new G27 Gen4. :big_boss:
platoonDaddy
01-04-11, 14:02
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45#p/u/0/3tlKjrOi2zo
Hickok45 did a 1K round test of the Gen 4 G19.
edit: forgot to add with the "04" spring. He had three malfunctions with 115gr ammo.
I have a Gen 4 G19 with about 500 rounds and zero functional problems at this time. The only thing I question at this time is accuracy. I seem to have lost a considerable amount of accuracy over my Gen 2 G17. :confused: I just seem to be all over the place with it, more than the 1/2 inch in barrel length should make. But, it's probably just me. :rolleyes:
I'm at 3028 rounds in 2 months, 922 have been with an 04 spring.
The only issues I've had is during a reload where I hit the slide release too early and had a misfeed. That happened twice.
CommackBoy
01-04-11, 16:50
I think it might be helpful if folks posted their 3 letter serial number prefix along with their reports.
I've run into a number of shooters with recently produced 4th Gen 19's that are running just fine...so if someone gets a stale one that was sitting on a shelf all this time, it might help clue everyone in with why their experience is so different than others.
Glock 19 Gen 4 Serial "PWP"
Glock 19 Gen 4 Serial "PYY"
Zero stoppages on these Gen 4 9mms:
PPZ G19 2500 rds
PYX G19 350 rds
PHP G17 2500 rds
PHK G17 5800 rds
Alpha Sierra
01-04-11, 19:26
My 17 is a PHM prefix. It has slightly over 2500 rounds IIRC. It had two FTEs with the original unmarked spring (within the first 350 rounds).
I changed to the 02 spring, no failures in about 1000 rounds. Changed to the Glockmeister spring, no failures in about 1000 rounds either.
Just received an 021 spring and will report on it.
Ga Shooter
01-04-11, 19:49
Both of my 17s are PPM
Duty Gen4 17 w/02 spring serial PNSxxx......has 4000+ rounds through it with zero malfunctions. Shooting Remington 147gr white box and some 147gr Rem Golden Saber. No issues what so ever. Does shoot a little left even with the sights slightly pushed right. Gen3 did shoot straight outta the box. on the Gen 4 its not me but the gun. Other shooters have same issue with that pistol. With the sight pushed its good to go now.
Also 22 Gen4 22's with 3000+ rounds zero malfunctions to date. No sight issues so far.
G19 with the 03 spring, PPZ serial number range, 1500 rounds no malfunctions, including some strong hand/weak hand shooting, and drawing from the holster. Ammo was Fiocchi 115 and 124 grain, Sellier & Bellot 115 grain, and 200 rounds of 124 +P Gold Dot. I think the S&B was lower pressure, the ejected cases went for my head a few times.
jonconsiglio
01-05-11, 18:25
I have a Gen 4 17 with a little over 4,000 rounds. The serial prefix is PHG. It came with the original unmarked spring. Within the first 200 rounds I installed the Ghost 3.5 connector, polished all the parts that make contact and installed a Gen 3 trigger bar.
During the 2,000 round challenge, I had 3 FTE's with Winchester White Box with the standard spring.
Changed to the "02" and it worked well, though I had 2 FTF's with a +2 extension withOUT the extra power magazine spring. I'm positive that was magazine related as I've had issues in a Gen 3 17 with that set up and also in the 33 round mags I borrowed from a friend.
I then changed to a Glockmeister 15lb captured spring since my "02" was still hanging up a little after 700 rounds. I've not had an issue since and that spring has about 1,500 rounds on it, give or take.
All things considered, I'm pretty happy with that. I never had an issue with duty/defense ammo in any of the springs, and the 2 failure to feeds were magazine related. Now, I don't think their should be a break-in for a gun with such loose tolerances, but I also understand it may have been an oversight on the manufacturers part seeing as they don't test with weaker ammo.
I had a Glock 23 that gave me all kinds of problems and had to trade it in for another, so even Glock isn't problem free.
I've gone well over 3,000 rounds without an issue with all types and weights of ammo and using all three springs for various reasons. About 1/4 of these were one handed with half of those being the support hand.
Also, most rounds fired have been on the move, from the holster, different positions, not always a perfect grip, etc. Maybe only 300 total (just a guess) have been slow fire at longer ranges with a perfect grip. I've shot maybe 50 with an intentionally weaker-than -average grip, though not completely limp-wristed.
Jonathan
jonconsiglio
01-05-11, 19:41
Please urge her to get a Glockmeister 17 lb Gen 4 recoil spring/guide rod assembly. It is a single captured spring that basically turns the Gen 4 into a Gen 3.
I ultimately went with the Glockmeister, though I went with the 15 lb spring seeing as the original Gen 4 spring is about 17 lbs and the "02" is about 15, give or take a pound each according to a Glock rep, IIRC.
Either way, I do like the dual spring and will probably have Glock send me the "021" spring.
I like the new flat finish on (some of?) the counterbore slides as well.
varoadking
01-05-11, 20:00
All four of mine - G17, G19, G22 and G35 - continue to run perfectly, though I have had to drift the rear sights slighty...
G17 serial prefix PPN
Right at the 1K mark. I had a single FTE "stove-pipe" malfunction at ~500 rounds. Spring assembly has no discernible markings on it which I presume to mean it's one of the early ones. No other issues. Subjectively, I find it shoots a little softer than previous versions of the G17. Also, it is one of the most accurate stock guns I've owned.
Stephen
Alpha Sierra
01-05-11, 20:21
G17 serial prefix PPN
Spring assembly has no discernible markings on it which I presume to mean it's one of the early ones.
Should be.
The 02 and 021 will be stamped on the back face of the flange that sits on the barrel lug.
The 02 has the 0 at 9 o'clock and the 2 at 3 o'clock. The 021 is marked like the 02 with the 1 at the six o'clock position.
devildog178
01-05-11, 23:40
My Gen4 26 has about 500 rounds through it with zero malfunctions. Prefix REF. Ammo includes Gold Dot 124 +P, Speer Lawman 115. I really like the new grip design. It does not move around during firing at all like Gen3 types. This alone made the upgrade worthwile. I tried the grip panels but decided to leave them off. I figured it was one less part to cause an issue.
Magic_Salad0892
01-06-11, 00:35
What is different about the ''021'' springs?
Magic_Salad0892
01-06-11, 00:44
My Gen4's also shot to the left a little, on a left handed shooter it was to the right.
I have concluded that it's a trigger problem. A Gen3 ''-'' trigger bar + NY1 trigger spring has corrected the issue. The lefty (my sister) still has the issue.
Also concluded that she might have been jerking the trigger, though she has no problem on a HK P2000 (GF's) or HK P30L (Hers) V3 in SA.
No backstrap. I'm not at home but I think the serial number is PHY, or PYM. I'll double check later. (Carrying Gen3 on me right now.)
Alpha Sierra
01-06-11, 04:17
What is different about the ''021'' springs?
The front coil of the large diameter spring (the outer one) is contained in a stepped metal cup. The cup is what sits in the guide rod hole of the slide and keeps the end of the spring coil from getting stuck in there.
It does that very well.
I'll post pics of an 02 and 021 side by side tonight when I get home from work.
controlledpairs2
01-06-11, 04:38
both my g19 and g17 give me stovepipes every 200 hundred rounds... is driving me crazy.
have 800 rnds through both of them, still happening. boo
platoonDaddy
01-06-11, 05:27
top view of all three springs for the Gen 4 G17
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/021spring.jpg
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/G17Gen4Spring1.jpg
Alpha Sierra
01-06-11, 10:32
both my g19 and g17 give me stovepipes every 200 hundred rounds... is driving me crazy.
have 800 rnds through both of them, still happening. boo
Which springs do you have in them?
I had an early Gen4 G17 that I put over 5000rds through before I gave up on it and went back to Gen3's (most on the original unmarked recoil-assembly,1000+rds on an "02" spring).
I too have noticed that reports of issues with the Gen4 Glocks seem to have waned more recently, so I decided to give another more late-production model a go...
Long story short, my buddy who works at my LGS/indoor range wouldn't let me do it. The shop has seen more complaints/issues over the last year with Gen4 G17/19's than it has with all the other previous generation Glock guns in various sizes/calibers combined over 15+ years of business...
The jury is still very much out IMHO.
My Gen4's also shot to the left a little, on a left handed shooter it was to the right.
I have concluded that it's a trigger problem. A Gen3 ''-'' trigger bar + NY1 trigger spring has corrected the issue. The lefty (my sister) still has the issue.
Also concluded that she might have been jerking the trigger, though she has no problem on a HK P2000 (GF's) or HK P30L (Hers) V3 in SA.
No backstrap. I'm not at home but I think the serial number is PHY, or PYM. I'll double check later. (Carrying Gen3 on me right now.)
It's not the trigger. A mechanical part inside a firearm cannot make it shoot left for some people, and shoot right for others.
It's a trigger control issue, that's been masked by adding a lighter weight trigger so the shooter has less difficulty in breaking the shot without disturbing the sights. It's a common "fix" for trigger control issues and there are plenty of heated debates about whether you should fix the actual problem (software), or if applying different parts (hardware) to cover it up is acceptable.
It's a trigger control issue, .
Amen. VAST majority of very good shooters will manifest this however if you dick up their trigger enough. Note the "-" connectors TigerSwan puts in their instructor guns and signature G17 they sell.
Ratio of trigger pull weight to pistol's weight and all that.
AMU's best shooters will not (I bet) shoot AS WELL with a substantially worse trigger. Just software?
Is it safe to conclude that the latest production Gen 4 G17 with swap to 15# recoil spring is virtually as reliable as the Gen 3 G17? I get the impression that the increased rating (about 15# up to about 17#) of the recoil spring of the Gen 4 G17 is the only "issue" for some with the Gen 4 G17 and that it is easily remedied with a change in recoil spring.
I ask because I'm considering getting a G17 and I much prefer the Gen4 grip frame, but I find many people still saying to go with Gen 3 instead. Sounds like the reliability risk of jumping to the Gen 4 G17 (vs. Gen 3) is easily mitigated.
AMU's best shooters will not (I bet) shoot AS WELL with a substantially worse trigger. Just software?
I didn't say a lighter trigger can't help good shooters shoot better, but shooters who are still flinching are not going to benefit long term from just covering the issue with a lighter trigger.
I spent a lot of time testing my speed and accuracy with 5.5 and 3.5 connectors. I've noticed no speed nor accuracy increase with a 3.5. Then again, I have about 25k downrange on a 5.5 trigger through various Glocks, it's what I'm used to.
Tom - thanks, I got it. I think the 5.5 can actually be faster in general. I OTOH am more accurate, fast with a "-" but a "-" in my Gen 4's ends up pretty damn close to 5.5. ;)
BTW - my son got one of your holsters and mag carriers a few months ago. Incredible gear! I've got a IWB knife sheath order pending. Nice.
Is it safe to conclude that the latest production Gen 4 G17 with swap to 15# recoil spring is virtually as reliable as the Gen 3 G17? I get the impression that the increased rating (about 15# up to about 17#) of the recoil spring of the Gen 4 G17 is the only "issue" for some with the Gen 4 G17 and that it is easily remedied with a change in recoil spring.
I ask because I'm considering getting a G17 and I much prefer the Gen4 grip frame, but I find many people still saying to go with Gen 3 instead. Sounds like the reliability risk of jumping to the Gen 4 G17 (vs. Gen 3) is easily mitigated.
Who can say what is safe about your individual purchase? Our 11K rounds through four Gen 4 with orig springs makes me think its safe. But you can read. I'd say go for it.
I picked up a 4th gen 17 second hand(one of the few ways to get one as a Non-LEO in Cali.) with very few rounds on it.
It has the counter bored slide, "02" spring, and the serial prefix is PSP, so far I've got about 2500 flawless rounds through it.
Magic_Salad0892
01-07-11, 08:20
It's not the trigger. A mechanical part inside a firearm cannot make it shoot left for some people, and shoot right for others.
It's a trigger control issue, that's been masked by adding a lighter weight trigger so the shooter has less difficulty in breaking the shot without disturbing the sights. It's a common "fix" for trigger control issues and there are plenty of heated debates about whether you should fix the actual problem (software), or if applying different parts (hardware) to cover it up is acceptable.
Are you saying it's not the trigger for me? Or not at all?
If you're saying that it was just me, then I'm throwing the original part back in and getting better at the trigger, before I go back to the ''-'' again.
Alpha Sierra - Thanks for the explanation. Have you noticed any issues with your ''021'' spring? - and is the spring weight the same?
Why doesn't Glock just stick with the Gen3 single captioned 15 lbs. springs?
Ga Shooter
01-07-11, 09:17
There has been a lot of good info here, but what about LAV? I am sure this is not the only place he went looking for status reports. What has been your findings, sir? Are the late model Gen4 ready for prime time?
Are you saying it's not the trigger for me? Or not at all?
If you're saying that it was just me, then I'm throwing the original part back in and getting better at the trigger, before I go back to the ''-'' again.
I'm saying it's extremely common for right handed shooters to shoot low left, and left handed shooters to shoot low right. They're pushing, or fighting the recoil before the gun goes off.
Putting in a lighter trigger can make the problem appear to get better, or go away. Since the trigger is easier to pull, the shooter typically doesn't move the gun as much just prior to the shot breaking. Or they simply crank their rear sight way over to compensate. I worked as a rangemaster at an indoor range a few years back, and would ask people if I could shoot their guns before giving them tools to adjust their sights. The vast majority of their issues was a poor trigger press, as I was able to hit dead center with the gun in its factory condition. There are some exceptions to this rule, but they are very rare.
The main issue with that "fix" is that you haven't fixed the problem. It will usually help a shooter for a short time, but as soon as you re-learn that lighter trigger, the flinches typically come right back. The issue is mental - you're trying to fight the recoil before it happens. Simply swapping out a trigger can in no way affect the mechanical accuracy or point of impact in a firearm. The bullet will go where the barrel is pointed at the time of ignition.
This same principle can be tested by giving shooters an unfamiliar gun to shoot. If a Glock shooter is having issues with flinching (or pushing, or whatever buzzword you prefer), hand them a single action pistol. Their first shot will typically be quite accurate, because the trigger is lighter and the gun went off before they expected it to. Allow them to shoot a few mags, and watch some flinch issues creep back up.
The above are generalizations. I (nor anyone else) can diagnose a shooting issue for you over the internet. The above is derived from my experience teaching many shooters from all different skill levels.
If we think from a simple mechanical standpoint, how is there any possibility adding a part to the gun that isn't a sight or a barrel would affect where the bullet hits? And furthermore, how would it affect the shot in one way for a certain shooter, but a completely different way for other shooters? If the part installed truly made a difference on where the bullet hit, it would be consistent for all shooters.
Here's a test - purchase some dummy rounds in the appropriate caliber for your gun. Randomly load them in your magazine (or have someone else do it) and then load your pistol. Shoot a string of fire at your normal pace on your target. When a dummy round creeps up, pay attention to what happens to your front sight during your trigger press. I bet it will move. That is showing you that your issue is trigger control. This drill creates a situation where the brain thinks the gun is loaded, but it actually isn't, allowing us to visualize and diagnose the issue. The mental aspect is also why dry fire will typically not fix flinching issues. When the brain knows the gun is unloaded, it will react differently than when it thinks there is going to be recoil. This drill is commonly called the Ball and Dummy drill if you want to search for more information on it.
Caveat- It is easier to shoot accurately with a lighter trigger. This is why precision rifles have light triggers, and why a large number of good shooters lighten the triggers in their guns. Just because a trainer or top competition guy uses a lighter trigger doesn't necessarily mean you should, though. Give those same guys guns with factory triggers and they will still be good shooters, though they might be a little slower or a little less accurate at distance. The key component here is that they are already very good at their trigger press. Adding the lighter components can help an already-proficient shooter, but I do not recommend it as a band-aid to cover up other issues. Solve the real problem first, then look at modifying your gun. This is assuming the gun you have has a decent trigger to begin with. Any popular gun - Glocks, M&P's, HK's, 1911's, etc from the factory have decent triggers that I think the shooter should learn before modifying.
Magic_Salad0892
01-07-11, 09:50
Thank you much.
I'll be trying that out next time I'm in front of some fierce looking paper.
I wish we had shot the HKs long enough to see if the issues came back up.
Beat Trash
01-07-11, 12:25
Are you saying it's not the trigger for me? Or not at all?
If you're saying that it was just me, then I'm throwing the original part back in and getting better at the trigger, before I go back to the ''-'' again.
Alpha Sierra - Thanks for the explanation. Have you noticed any issues with your ''021'' spring? - and is the spring weight the same?
Why doesn't Glock just stick with the Gen3 single captioned 15 lbs. springs?
I would say it's you. Not to sound offensive in any way though. I agree that a change of trigger wouldn't cause your groups to switch from the right to the left.
I would suggest you spend some time dryfiring. Concentrate when you do so. Make sure you are moving your trigger finger at the middle knuckle, not at the first knuckle (the one connecting your finger to your hand). Moving the finger at the first knuckle can cause you to push the gun to one side or the other. The same can happen if there is too much or too little of your finger on the trigger. The front sight shouldn't move when the sear trips.
Beat Trash
01-07-11, 12:28
To all
Let me hear everyones recent experiences with the new Gen 4 Glocks - from what I have seen and heard a lot of the problems have been addressed and word has it limited to the first few months of production - the last few I have seen in classes work fine
I am all ears
LAV
I would be interested in the production dates of any Gen4 guns that have worked fine during a training class such as LAV mentioned.
If anyone has a Gen4 gun without issues, could you please post the date of manufacture?
mrosamilia
01-07-11, 15:19
I would be interested in the production dates of any Gen4 guns that have worked fine during a training class such as LAV mentioned.
If anyone has a Gen4 gun without issues, could you please post the date of manufacture?
G17 March 2010 non marked RSA and 1000 rounds and counting.
*SNIP.
I also thought that some people just shot Glocks left because of the grip. This was fixed by either rotating the hand to put more finger on the trigger, or in my case, simply trying to hook the trigger a bit more.
I would say it's you. Not to sound offensive in any way though. I agree that a change of trigger wouldn't cause your groups to switch from the right to the left.
I would suggest you spend some time dryfiring. Concentrate when you do so. Make sure you are moving your trigger finger at the middle knuckle, not at the first knuckle (the one connecting your finger to your hand). Moving the finger at the first knuckle can cause you to push the gun to one side or the other. The same can happen if there is too much or too little of your finger on the trigger. The front sight shouldn't move when the sear trips.
This is what I meant by "hooking" the trigger. My front sight would twitch a little on the break, and moving at the middle knuckle is what fixed it. Wish I would have read that before spending all the time I did trying to figure it out on my own. And asking on forums.
I also thought that some people just shot Glocks left because of the grip. This was fixed by either rotating the hand to put more finger on the trigger, or in my case, simply trying to hook the trigger a bit more.
Again, the mechanical features of a pistol cannot affect where the bullets hit. The bullets will go where the barrel is pointed. If you use your sights and don't disturb them, you'll make your hits.
I've fired Glocks sideways, upside down, using a sharpie on the trigger, etc. Nothing else matters than a good sight picture and a good trigger press. If your hand does weird things when you bend certain knuckles, that may have an impact on your sights moving. But simply saying "too much or too little finger on the trigger" is way too vague - in the end, those don't matter as long as you pull straight back to the rear.
Here's a 5.5lb connector gun at 100 yards on an IDPA steel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVbQFb-DrlY
I was ringing 8" steel plates at 35 yards like this, my hits were no more infrequent than shooting them in a standard position:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2558/4163723619_ffcde2644d.jpg
True enough but I found that the first knuckle on the Glock trigger instead of the pad, gave me leverage I needed to press straight back at speed. And frankly, I didn't see anyone promoting that method before Ayoob. He put me onto it.
Then later came across a highly accomplished competitive rifle shooter that promoted the same first knuckle approach for any trigger including the rifle. Said don't really matter how you do it, just press straight back. I only use the first knuckle now - for ARs, leverguns, Glocks, 1911s, or DA revolvers. Just go straight back.
Magic_Salad0892
01-08-11, 09:14
Does anybody know the spring weights for the ''01'', ''02'', and ''021'' springs?
I remember hearing that the ''01'' was something crazy like 22 lbs. though it felt more like 18 or so. The ''02'' being around 17 lbs, and the ''021'' being about 15 lbs.
Am I right?
jonconsiglio
01-08-11, 09:42
Does anybody know the spring weights for the ''01'', ''02'', and ''021'' springs?
I remember hearing that the ''01'' was something crazy like 22 lbs. though it felt more like 18 or so. The ''02'' being around 17 lbs, and the ''021'' being about 15 lbs.
Am I right?
The unmarked spring is 17 pounds, the "02" is 15 pounds and the "021" is also 15 pounds, but has the slightly different shape for non-counterbored slides.
According to Glock, these weights are general and have a 2 pound spread. So, the unmarked spring could possibly be 16, 17 or 18 pounds and the "02" and "021" will be between 14 and 16 pounds.
When ordering a replacement Gen 4 spring, it also lists 17 pounds as the OEM weight. IIRC, 17 pounds is also the OEM weight for the Gen 3 17. If so, I wonder why the same weight on the Gen 4 is causing some issues. I ordered a 15 pound Glockmeister single captured spring. I have over 4,000 rounds through my Gen 4 with only a few minor issues that were mostly mag related.
* I should mention that this information comes from a phone call with Glock when I called about the "02" springs. It seems about right though since my 15 pound Glockmeister and "02" spring both feel a bit lighter than the unmarked spring.
Glock 17's originally came with a non-captured 19 lb spring, the first captured springs were 16 and then the spring rates were revised to 17 lbs and the spring was plated a silver color.
I still have some of the non-captured springs. I compared the unmarked Gen 4 spring to the non-captured 19 lb rated springs and was amazed at how much more force was required to work the Gen 4 slide than a Gen 3 with the 19lb spring.. The initial pre-load was also higher with the Gen 4 making the first movement of the slide much more difficult.
I believe that Glock had changed the 19lb springs to 16 to improve reliability and then moved up to 17 to accommodate the .40.
PS. My trust in the information coming out of Glock is fairly low these days. When I called Glock earlier in the year related to the questionable function of my Gen 4, the customer service person had not heard of any problems with gen 4's. Everything was perfect.
So, even if the springs theoretically have the same rate, the initial pre-load was dramatically increased over prior generations with the unmarked Gen 4 spring. And, since this spring was intended to improve functioning with the .40's, doesn't it stand to reason that they were attempting to slow the initial slide speed down/delay unlocking? This may have helped the .40, but since the 9 was already arguably optimal, it had to have compromised the 9's function.
jonconsiglio
01-08-11, 10:28
So, when buying something like the Glockmeister spring for the Gen 4, is 15 pounds too light for defensive loads and would 17 be a better choice?
Coming from mostly 1911's, I have no problem with springs and understand the relationship between the mainspring and recoil spring. Seeing as I'm relatively new to needing anything other than a factory spring for a Glock, I'm still trying to figure it out.
I'm wondering if I should get a 17 pound Glockmeister to replace the 15 pound one that I have...
Magic_Salad0892
01-08-11, 13:37
15 will be fine, IMO. I wouldn't worry about it.
I have like 3 of the ''02'' assemblies, and 4 of the 17 lbs. Glockmiester Single Captioned Spring Assemblies, that's what all mine use. I just wish Glockmeister would make a goddamned polymer assembly.
If you're running 147-158 gr. +P defensive loads you MIGHT want to try out the 22 lbs. Glockmiester assembly.
My boss has one in his G17 because he carries 147 gr. +P stuff, he said that in something like 5k rounds, he hasn't had a single malfunction.
They aren't ridiculously expensive, so if you like hot loads, it's worth a try.
Are the ''021'' springs okay to use in counterbored slides? (Like mine - I have 3 Gen4 guns, and one Gen3, all Glock 17s. I don't own a 19 anymore.)
jonconsiglio
01-08-11, 17:26
Right now, my carry ammo is Ranger T Series 147 grain and HST 124 grain. Coming from carrying 1911's, I've always like heavier, standard pressure rounds so it just carried over.
I believe, but don't take my word for it, that the "021" spring is specifically for non-counterbored slides and the counterbored slides ship with the "02". I may be completely wrong though. I looked a Gen 4 with the flat finish and the counterboring and completely forgot to look at the spring.
I'l, probably just pop the "021" spring in and let it be, though still order another Glockmeister at 17 pounds to see how it works at the range.
varoadking
01-08-11, 19:18
I now use a Glockmeister #20 recoil spring in my Gen4 G17, G22, G35...#18 in my Gen 4 G19...and a Wolff #22 in my Gen 3 G20.
They all function perfectly, and have since day 1...
I now use a Glockmeister #20 recoil spring in my Gen4 G17, G22, G35...#18 in my Gen 4 G19...and a Wolff #22 in my Gen 3 G20.
They all function perfectly, and have since day 1...
hey varoadking.... (are you the same guy I see over on the H-D forums? FLTRX rider myself)
Very interesting. I wouldn't have thought the 20# to be so reliable in the Gen4 17, except perhaps with +P / +P+. Is that the case with light 115 gr. loads as well?
Are your Gen4s the counterbored models or pre-counterbore? Any thoughts on that would be appreciated over here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=871067#post871067
jonconsiglio
01-08-11, 20:54
Deleted
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 00:00
Right now, my carry ammo is Ranger T Series 147 grain and HST 124 grain. Coming from carrying 1911's, I've always like heavier, standard pressure rounds so it just carried over.
I believe, but don't take my word for it, that the "021" spring is specifically for non-counterbored slides and the counterbored slides ship with the "02". I may be completely wrong though. I looked a Gen 4 with the flat finish and the counterboring and completely forgot to look at the spring.
I'l, probably just pop the "021" spring in and let it be, though still order another Glockmeister at 17 pounds to see how it works at the range.
15 lbs. should be just fine for that, but optimally IMO I would say 17 lbs. or even 19 lbs, if you want it to shoot a little flatter.
Glock 17's originally came with a non-captured 19 lb spring, the first captured springs were 16 and then the spring rates were revised to 17 lbs and the spring was plated a silver color. I still have some of the non-captured springs.
I compared the unmarked Gen 4 spring to the non-captured 19 lb rated springs and was amazed at how much more force was required to work the Gen 4 slide (with presumably a 17# rating) than a Gen 3 with the 19lb spring.
Interesting... likely that the 19# spring had weakened over time and with some use? Gen3 gun well broken in and Gen4 gun still a bit stiff?
The initial pre-load was also higher with the Gen 4 making the first movement of the slide much more difficult.
I believe that Glock had changed the 19lb springs to 16 to improve reliability and then moved up to 17 to accommodate the .40.
PS. My trust in the information coming out of Glock is fairly low these days. When I called Glock earlier in the year related to the questionable function of my Gen 4, the customer service person had not heard of any problems with gen 4's. Everything was perfect.
So, even if the springs theoretically have the same rate, the initial pre-load was dramatically increased over prior generations with the unmarked Gen 4 spring.
And, since this (new, dual-coil design) spring was intended to improve functioning with the .40's, doesn't it stand to reason that they were attempting to slow the initial slide speed down/delay unlocking?
This may have helped the .40, but since the 9 was already arguably optimal, it had to have compromised the 9's function.
Sure sounds like a very reasonable overview of it all.
My impression of the issues with the 22 were that with a frame mounted light, there were some malfunctions associated with the light... so, I'm wondering if a delayed unlock/retarded initial slide speed would address the light-related functional issues?
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 04:31
Hey, Glockmeister doesn't list the single captioned Gen4 springs on their sight any more.
WTF?
http://www.glockmeister.com/Recoil-Spring-Assemblies/products/97/
Hey, Glockmeister doesn't list the single captioned Gen4 springs on their sight any more.
WTF?
http://www.glockmeister.com/Recoil-Spring-Assemblies/products/97/
Hey Salad... you're in the Glock OEM section... go over to the custom and competition parts section:
http://www.glockmeister.com/Recoil-Rods-Assemblies/products/82/
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 05:13
Oh. Much appreciated. :)
Sorry.
No trouble, buddy...easy mistake to make... I did it myself before I figured it out. ;)
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 06:44
Do you know if it makes a difference on the Glockmeister recoil assemblies if you're using a counterbored slide or not?
(Mine are counterbored, but I'm damn curious.)
Interesting... likely that the 19# spring had weakened over time and with some use? Gen3 gun well broken in and Gen4 gun still a bit stiff?
Sure sounds like a very reasonable overview of it all.
My impression of the issues with the 22 were that with a frame mounted light, there were some malfunctions associated with the light... so, I'm wondering if a delayed unlock/retarded initial slide speed would address the light-related functional issues?
The 19# spring had never been in a gun. I took it out of a bag of them I bought way back when they switched to the 16, just in case I did not like the 16's..... The Gen 4's had been fired about 1000 times and the slide locked back for a few days to weaken the spring (which did improve function).
From what I have read, either a small increase in slide mass or an increase in spring rate significantly improves the light related problems with the 22. I suspect that the extra inertia of the mounted light creates higher slide velocities, as Glock's first fix was a stronger magazine spring, which would present the next round more quickly.
varoadking
01-09-11, 07:38
Do you know if it makes a difference on the Glockmeister recoil assemblies if you're using a counterbored slide or not?
(Mine are counterbored, but I'm damn curious.)
The rod itself sits a wee bit further back in my counterbored G19 than it does in my non-counterbored G17 and G22. Other than that - no difference...
For all I know, that may very well be due the difference between the full size and compact designs rather than the counterbore...
varoadking
01-09-11, 07:40
hey varoadking.... (are you the same guy I see over on the H-D forums? FLTRX rider myself)
Very interesting. I wouldn't have thought the 20# to be so reliable in the Gen4 17, except perhaps with +P / +P+. Is that the case with light 115 gr. loads as well?
Are your Gen4s the counterbored models or pre-counterbore? Any thoughts on that would be appreciated over here:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=871067#post871067
I haven't been on any HD board for quite a while...someone must have stolen my identity...lol
Gen4 G19 is counterbored, G17 and G22 are not...nor is the G35 that I can tell...
The #20 Glockmeister tungston recoil spring assemblies work perfectly with WWB 115 grain loads in my 9mm and .40S&W pieces...
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 09:10
How is it with 147 gr. loads?
Is the consensus that the spring weight could have been increased but the double captioned design is what was wrong?
Thanks for the reply.
Can somebody reply with results regarding the Glockmeister captioned spring in counterbored v. non-counterbored Gen4 slides?
I'm asking because they were designed and produced before the counterbored pistols emerged, and have just kind of been adapted into them, by those that use that assembly.
My experience (posted in other thread):
I am back from my first visit to the range with my G17 (02 spring and counterbore) and a box of 50 rounds of UMC Leadless 124gr. I shoot one handed.
- Irregular ejection pattern. 10% of casings hitting my head.
- 1 FTF.
I think the management of Glock not only should be immediately fired but formally sued by the stakeholders. I am sure they knew the issues but they released the product anyway, probably against the engineering department, just to fulfill their holy planning and get their undeserved bonuses.
By the way I am OK as I bought the pistol for sports events.
mrosamilia
01-09-11, 11:08
Gen4 19 production date 11-18 spring is 03-1 350 rounds in 22 degree weather zero malfunctions
Gen4 19 production date 11-18 spring is 03-1 350 rounds in 22 degree weather zero malfunctions
"03-1"???
So the front of your slide isn't counter-bored?
mrosamilia
01-09-11, 11:43
Counter bored sorry the -1 was a mis type on I-phone. Spring is marked 03
Now I've seen that my 01 sprung Gen 4 G17 and 03 sprung Gen 4 G19 will also run this Federal 95 grain JSP ammo I picked up for $10/box of 50. It's an over run or rejects from some contract - sold in white Fed boxes.
It is the lightest recoiling ammo I've tried yet.
varoadking
01-09-11, 12:41
I think the management of Glock not only should be immediately fired but formally sued by the stakeholders. I am sure they knew the issues but they released the product anyway, probably against the engineering department, just to fulfill their holy planning and get their undeserved bonuses.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/anim_rofl2.gif
Do you know if it makes a difference on the Glockmeister recoil assemblies if you're using a counterbored slide or not?
(Mine are counterbored, but I'm damn curious.)
According to Glockmeister and my personal experience, it makes no difference. I called them and asked. I have a Glockmeister recoil setup (stainless) in a counterbored G19 Gen4 and one in a non-counterbored G22 Gen4. They both work.
outcast623
01-09-11, 17:45
I have a Gen 4 Glock 19 with 03 spring, 600 rounds of american eagle 124gr with ZERO ftf/fte. Every once and awhile I will get a somewhat weak ejection but it is far from anything that bothers me.
For what it is worth I LOVE this gun.
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2485/22947376.jpg
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2967/65818712.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1820/12544604.jpg
My experience (posted in other thread):
I am back from my first visit to the range with my G17 (02 spring and counterbore) and a box of 50 rounds of UMC Leadless 124gr. I shoot one handed.
- Irregular ejection pattern. 10% of casings hitting my head.
- 1 FTF.
I think the management of Glock not only should be immediately fired but formally sued by the stakeholders. I am sure they knew the issues but they released the product anyway, probably against the engineering department, just to fulfill their holy planning and get their undeserved bonuses.
By the way I am OK as I bought the pistol for sports events.
No public hanging?
I picked up my new Gen 4 Glock 17 from a local shop on thursday. The casing notes it was test fired in Jan/2010, so even though it is celebrating its first b-day, it was a new one in the box. When I purchased it, I noticed it had a non beveled slide, and the spring was unmarked. When I got it home, I locked the slide in the back position, and left it there until this morning.
I shot a pistol class today, and it worked flawlessly running through winchester white box, federal redbox, lawman, and tula ammo. I had nothing cheaper to shoot, or I would have tried it. The only thing I saw, was the end of the spring where the guide rod goes through the slide appeared to be trying to come around the guide rod.
I have 4 Gen4s. Two G22s (one flat slide and one with the bevel), a G35 (beveled), and a G19 (beveled).
Round counts:
G19 (03 spring) ~500rds
G22 (flat slide and unmarked spring) ~4000rds
G22 (beveled and 01 spring) ~500rds
G35 (01 spring) ~300rds
I've had 1 stoppage with the G19 where the case extracted, spun 180, and came to rest in the ejection port. Ammo was Rem UMC 115gr FMJ.
I have not had any stoppages with the G22s, but the one with the flat slide may have an issue which I'll get to.
I've had one issue with the G35. While shooting the slide became sluggish. I field stripped it and found that the end of the recoil spring had been caught between the guide rod and guide rod hole in the slide. It does have the bevel.
All of my Gen4s have pieces of the frame chipped out in the area of the recoil spring tunnel. I can't remember if they were like this before firing, but they are all very uniform. Also the flat slide G22 appears to have a crack in the front frame rail.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3707-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3700-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3702-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3710-1.jpg
Not the best pic, but the uniformity of the chips can be seen.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3717-1.jpg
EDIT: This is NOT a crack. I've taken a much closer look at it and it's some sort of casting void in the metal.
Are you guys seeing the same wear?
Anybody have an unfired one to see if it has this wear?
Thanks
outcast623
01-10-11, 19:38
JasonTN I am seeing the same wear on my G19 with 600 rounds through it. No cracks, not sure if it was like this prior to shooting it though. Not too concerned about it yet, maybe if it does develop a crack. As with you would be interested if this is there on unfired/low count weapon.
brushy bill
01-10-11, 20:18
I have 4 Gen4s. Two G22s (one flat slide and one with the bevel), a G35 (beveled), and a G19 (beveled).
Round counts:
G19 (03 spring) ~500rds
G22 (flat slide and unmarked spring) ~4000rds
G22 (beveled and 01 spring) ~500rds
G35 (01 spring) ~300rds
I've had 1 stoppage with the G19 where the case extracted, spun 180, and came to rest in the ejection port. Ammo was Rem UMC 115gr FMJ.
I have not had any stoppages with the G22s, but the one with the flat slide may have an issue which I'll get to.
I've had one issue with the G35. While shooting the slide became sluggish. I field stripped it and found that the end of the recoil spring had been caught between the guide rod and guide rod hole in the slide. It does have the bevel.
All of my Gen4s have pieces of the frame chipped out in the area of the recoil spring tunnel. I can't remember if they were like this before firing, but they are all very uniform. Also the flat slide G22 appears to have a crack in the front frame rail.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3707-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3700-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3702-1.jpg
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3710-1.jpg
Not the best pic, but the uniformity of the chips can be seen.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/peacekeeper1408/Glock/IMG_3717-1.jpg
Are you guys seeing the same wear?
Anybody have an unfired one to see if it has this wear?
Thanks
Had exactly same wear on a G17 Gen 4. It had the marks even prior to firing. As I understand it, these are mold imperfections and not caused by wear.
Had exactly same wear on a G17 Gen 4. It had the marks even prior to firing. As I understand it, these are mold imperfections and not caused by wear.
I'm thinking so too. It's too uniform to be from wear. I'm going to shoot the one with the "crack" another 500-1000rds and see what happens. I called Glock last week and they're sending me a 01-1 spring for the flat slide.
So far, I really like the Gen4 features and hope it proves to be as good a service pistol as the Gen 3s. The only thing that did concern me was the lack of parts, but that is getting better.
So are current Gen 4s being shipped with or without the counterbored slide?
As far as I know, they are now shipped with the counterbored slide. My G35 is a REQ prefix and it has it.
Had exactly same wear on a G17 Gen 4. It had the marks even prior to firing. As I understand it, these are mold imperfections and not caused by wear.Neither of my Gen4s had those voids before shooting them; they both developed them after several hundred rounds. What Glock Tech guy told me was that there are "voids" in the polymer in the recoil spring channel over the slide rails. The wider double recoil springs rub on these voids, and chip/scrape them away.
After a certain amount of wear, they shouldn't continue to spread. The major problem I had was when some of the "chipped" polymer made its way into my trigger mechanism during shooting, leading to the trigger failing to reset until a detail strip was able to get the little "chips" out of the connector area...
ETA - my brand new Gen4 G26 is showing "drag" marks in the recoil spring channel, similar to the early onset of the "chipping" shown above. Very interesting - never saw anything like that on any of the 3rd Gen G26/7s I've owned or shot; maybe the recoil spring channel was made narrower on the Gen4 versions in keeping with the "tightening tolerances" program Glocks are getting across the board?
Regards,
Kevin
In regards to the chipping on the inside of the frame rail. My flat slide G 22 had these same chips prior to putting any rounds down range. I've put close to 1000 through it since and it hasn't gotten any worse or caused any problems. When I contacted the Glock LE rep on the west side about an updated spring, I asked him about this. He said that it has to do with the wider inside dimensions required for the dual recoil spring and this in turn means that there is less polymer over the frame rails. He claimed that it's nothing to worry about as far as stength as the frame rails are secure without the polymer around the inside of the rail. It seemed to make sense to me and so far it hasn't been an issue, but I'm keeping an eye on it.
I haven't heard the term "flat slide" in reference to the G22 before.... what is the distinction between a regular G22 and a "flat slide" G22?
I used the term "flat" because that's what the Glock rep called it when I spoke to him. It refers to the slide without the counterbore and bevel.
Magic_Salad0892
01-11-11, 10:42
I'm pretty much never going to use the standard recoil assembly for the next two years.
I find it a little worrying that Glockmeister did it better than OEM.
:|
I'm having that much harder a time not switching to H&K's anyway.
P30L's are too damn expensive. ;)
I'm pretty much never going to use the standard recoil assembly for the next two years.
I find it a little worrying that Glockmeister did it better than OEM.
:|
I'm having that much harder a time not switching to H&K's anyway.
P30L's are too damn expensive. ;)
The Glockmeister unit appears to be really well designed/manufactured. I think anyone who is having an issue or simply worries about the design of the OEM unit should consider it.
Does the glockmeister RSA improve the ejection performance?
Does the glockmeister RSA improve the ejection performance?
I actually have had good luck with ejection performance with both the stock Gen4 RSA and the Glockmeister unit. Having said that, I need to point out that I only shoot hotter stuff.
One of my Instructors just took possession of a Gen 4 G17. We ran it today, for a total of 300 rounds of 115 grain FMJ. We ran a multitude of shooting tables, and with three different shooters, the weapon "stovepiped" on us. We had a total of five of such FTE's.
One of the shooters is fairly new to Glocks (new to shooting in particular) so I attributed it happening to him, due to the gun being brand new, and a HIGH possibility that he was limp-wristing.
The second shooter it happened to is not new to shooting, but is new to shooting Glocks.
The third shooter was the owner of the weapon, and is one of my Senior Instructors.
I could not get the weapon to do it for me, even trying.
Ammo used was 115 grain FMJ Federal American Eagle. Other than this, the weapon functioned normally, and was highly accurate. I just wanted to report this issue. We will be out on the range again tomorrow and Thursday, so I will be curious to see if it happens again.
DMack... if possible, would you please report the serial number prefix of the gun and what markings, if any, are on the rear plate of the recoil spring assembly?
DMack... if possible, would you please report the serial number prefix of the gun and what markings, if any, are on the rear plate of the recoil spring assembly?
Roger That Sir...
PFF is the serial prefix. As soon as he gets home he will call me with the details from the rear plate of the recoil spring if it has any markings / numbers.
I have one of the earlier G17 Gen4's. I haven't had any malfunctions in almost 2,000rds of just about everything. My current target load is some dept. trade-in 100g frangible stuff, and it cycles just fine.
I'm a bit of a parts hoarder, and have the 0-1, 0-2, and 0-2-1 OEM rods, as well as the Glockmeister and Jager rods w/ varying spring weights. They all function just like they're supposed to. The 0-2-1 rod stays in the gun unless I'm experimenting. I run it with a X200A on it 90% of the time.
No complaints at all. I'm a 3x Glock Armorer, and have owned probably 2 dozen Glocks over the years. This one's a winner so far.
Ok, update on the Gen 4 G17 with Serial Prefix PFF...
Had a total of FIVE Stovepipes in class the other day, with three different shooters.
Yesterday, we ran the gun HARD again, passing it around, and had multiple FTE (Stovepipes) with several different shooters. I even had it happen to me once. The owner of the handgun had three stovepipe FTE's within one magazine.
The ammo used as stated, is the Federal "American Eagle" brand, 115 grain FMJ. We ordered in bulk to use in classes, and this is the first time I have had any experience with the American Eagle brand ammo. Once we switched ammo, we could not get the Gen 4 G17 to FTE (Stovepipe) at all. The other ammo used, was PMC, Winchester White Box, Speer Gold Dot, and Blazer. So far, the ONLY malfunctions have been when running the American Eagle ammo.
Now, I have a first run Glock 34 that uses a stock recoil spring, and it fires the American Eagle 115 Grain FMJ with no malfunctions at all.
My guess is, the inconsistent powder charge in the American Eagle ammo is causing recoil issues with the Gen 4 recoil spring.
Other than this issue, the G17 runs like a top.
platoonDaddy
01-13-11, 14:51
Ok, update on the Gen 4 G17 with Serial Prefix PFF...
Had a total of FIVE Stovepipes in class the other day, with three different shooters.
Yesterday, we ran the gun HARD again, passing it around, and had multiple FTE (Stovepipes) with several different shooters. I even had it happen to me once. The owner of the handgun had three stovepipe FTE's within one magazine.
The ammo used as stated, is the Federal "American Eagle" brand, 115 grain FMJ. We ordered in bulk to use in classes, and this is the first time I have had any experience with the American Eagle brand ammo. Once we switched ammo, we could not get the Gen 4 G17 to FTE (Stovepipe) at all. The other ammo used, was PMC, Winchester White Box, Speer Gold Dot, and Blazer. So far, the ONLY malfunctions have been when running the American Eagle ammo.
Now, I have a first run Glock 34 that uses a stock recoil spring, and it fires the American Eagle 115 Grain FMJ with no malfunctions at all.
My guess is, the inconsistent powder charge in the American Eagle ammo is causing recoil issues with the Gen 4 recoil spring.
Other than this issue, the G17 runs like a top.
What is the number stamped on the recoil spring?
mrinconspicuous007
01-13-11, 16:13
I purchased a Gen 4 Glock 17 in Nov. It appears to be in the first run of the Gen 4 because it has no counterbore or numbers stamped on the guide rod recoil spring assembly.
Initially I put 250 rounds of Rem UMC 115gr FMJ through it with the original guide rod recoil spring assembly and had zero malfunctions.
I ordered and installed the 02 guide rod spring assembly and put 250 more rounds of Rem UMC 115 gr FMJ today with one failure to "fire". The failure to fire seems almost certain to be a bad primer. The firing pin hit it square and produced the same sized dent in the primer as was visible in the spent shells. I showed the dud round to the range master and he agreed.
With the 02 spring I did experience one weird round that felt soft and flung the spent casing back at my face but it kept on truckin'.
What is the number stamped on the recoil spring?
There is no number that I saw, on the recoil spring. Unless I am missing them, there are no visible numbers anywhere on the captured spring assembly.
There is no number that I saw, on the recoil spring. Unless I am missing them, there are no visible numbers anywhere on the captured spring assembly.
No markings on the RSA would imply that the RSA in the gun is the first Gen4 version RSA, rated about 17#.
You could probably get 100% reliability with the low power factor ammo (Fed Amer Eagle, WWB, etc.) using the newer RSA rated at about 15# and labeled 0 2 1 on the rear end of the RSA. Glock issued this 15# rated RSA in response to the reliability issues associated with the 17# RSA when used with low power factor ammunition. I think Glock would send one to you at no cost if you told them of the issue. It would be nice to have the 15# RSA for times when you do want to practice/train with the low power fodder.
platoonDaddy
01-13-11, 18:08
There is no number that I saw, on the recoil spring. Unless I am missing them, there are no visible numbers anywhere on the captured spring assembly.
There are currently (at least to my knowledge) three recoil springs for the Gen 4, G17
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/G17Gen4Spring1.jpg
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/021spring.jpg
.
There are currently (at least to my knowledge) three recoil springs for the Gen 4, G17
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/G17Gen4Spring1.jpg
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/021spring.jpg
.
If you look at the other end (the front end) of the RSA, you will see that the 0 2 and 0 2 1 differ at the front; the 0 2 being designed for the counterbored slide and the 0 2 1 for the non-counterbored slide.
Just ran a little less than 700 through mine today, with zero malfunctions using tula, wolf, and winchester white box. Thats got me right around the 1k mark in a week(bought new in box last thursday) with an early gen 4 17, no markings on the guide rod, no bevel in slide, and serial #PFCXXX. I was concerned when I got it, but I've got faith in it now.
platoonDaddy
01-13-11, 18:44
If you look at the other end (the front end) of the RSA, you will see that the 0 2 and 0 2 1 differ at the front; the 0 2 being designed for the counterbored slide and the 0 2 1 for the non-counterbored slide.
I can only speak for mine: "02" recoil spring without the "counter bored" slide. Note following pictures:
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/003-1.jpg
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/001.jpg
It seems quite likely that individual samples of the initial, 17# rating, dual-coil RSA may vary by as much as a couple of pounds either way. It would be great to be able to test various samples to actually see how much variation there is among different samples of the 17# rated dual-coil RSA. There didn't seem to be as much variation with the single-coil RSAs, so perhaps the dual-coil design somehow contributes to greater variation among different samples?
Perhaps that is why some folks have no problems with original 17# rated RSAs and low power factor ammo, where others with the same gun and 17# rated RSA do have issues with low power factor ammo.
an early gen 4 17, no markings on the guide rod, no bevel in slide, .
Same as our two. 5800 rds through one. 2500 in the other. Zero stoppages. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
Great information. It's been a while since I ordered any parts from Glock, since our fleet just keeps going and going. This is the first GEN 4 that we have had any experience with... so, I need to get schooled up on these now.
I'm about ready for my Glock Armorer Re-Cert so, I would think they cover the GEN 4 information during class. I was not aware of the RSA issues with this handgun. Seems very logical to me now.
Again, I really appreciate the feedback.
I was thinking about getting a Gen4 Glock 17, but this thread has sure spooked the hell out of me. I seem to draw the short straw a lot on factory reliability.
I wouldn't be spooked by the Gen4 9mms - mine had trouble, but for every one of me, there are literally THOUSANDS of other shooters out there who are perfectly happy with theirs.
And, if you're into "bling" Glock unveiled the "25th Anniversary" Gen4 G17 at SHOT - it has a BIG silver-colored "25th Anniversay" badge melted into each grip "panel." For the life of me I couldn't imagine carrying that, but if you're a collector it might look good in the safe...
Regards,
Kevin
I have a Gen4 19 prefix PUV and I haven't had any problems with it either *crosses fingers lol*, it also has the older spring.
Just passed 500 rounds :rolleyes: this morning with my g4g17. PFE prefix, originally came with an unmarked recoil spring assembly.
In the first 67 rounds (1 box + 1 mag) I had 3 failures to feed with WWB and UMC ball. Called glock and got 2 "02" marked RSAs (which seems odd based on the most recent info, since the slide isn't beveled...). The next ~475 rounds I had no problems until this morning in a match (naturally :rolleyes:). Kneeling from the left side of a barrel in ~20 degree weather produced one failure to eject (spent brass caught while the slide was closing, case mouth oriented forward). Ammo was 115gr Federal Champion (which is pretty light) from wal mart.
Even with the new RSAs, nerf ammo seems problematic if you don't have a perfect grip. I've only had one issue with it, but even when it's working the brass doesn't exactly go far...
edit - This was the first time I've used Fed Chamption in this pistol. WWB and UMC have been fine with the 02 spring.
Bought a gen 4 Glock 23 last month.
First range trip: Cleaned, fired 100 rounds, cleaned. Zero problems/issues.
Second range trip: Fired 100 rounds, zero problems.
This is my fourth Glock and the most accurate so far. (G-22, G-27, G-36). This will replace my G-36 as primary carry once I get 500+ rounds through.
My Glock-17 gen4 has roughly 3 malfunctions per trip to the range (figure 75-100rds), it was worse the first hundred rounds, roughly 10. All my malfunctions have been with Wally World Winchester White Box. Failure to eject (stove pipe) and it will eject into my forehead.
After the first 100rds; I shot 50 Winchester Ranger 147gr, 50 Winchester 127gr +P+, 50rds of some Federal 124gr NATO, and had zero malfunctions.
I just don't think my pistol likes the WWB, thought to be fair to the pistol, I could have easily limp wristed. I have about 800rds through mine. I like the pistol, but the trigger is pretty heavy compared to my gen3 Glock19. I messed around with the Ghost 4.5lb connector and it made the trigger pretty lousy, so I have the OEM connector back in.
0-1-2 spring, PML pre-fix
brushy bill
01-22-11, 17:29
The Glockmeister unit appears to be really well designed/manufactured. I think anyone who is having an issue or simply worries about the design of the OEM unit should consider it.
Plus one
Picked up a G23 Gen4 about a week ago.
PVR prefix
The first 100 rounds was a mix between 165gr WWB and some 180gr handloads which are loaded to about 1050 fps.
I couldn't get through more than 4 or 5 rounds without a failure to feed. I could make it occur on demand with a less than ideal grip.
It was very frustrating. Neither of my 22s or my 35 would fail to feed even with a very light grip and unlocked wrist.
The next range trip the following day I fired 300 flawless rounds. I lubed it as I have always done on my Glocks, except this time for whatever reason I decided to place a drop or two of FP10 on the recoil spring assembly. I tried to induce a stoppage, but no dice. It just kept going and going.
Magazines:
Factory 13rd
Factory 15rd G22
Factory 15rd G22 w/ +2 OEM extension
Factory 15rd G22 w/ Taylor Freelance +5 extension and stock 11 coil spring
Factory 22rd
I don't know if it was the lube on the RSA that helped or if a rough spot just smoothed out.
Now the round count is over 500 and it has not had any issue since.
I have a pair of gen 4 Glocks, a G22 & G19. The G22(PHX prefix)has been just like every other Glock I've ever owned, which is to say perfectly reliable, this after 1300 rounds of American Eagle AE40R3 165gr ball, and Federal 165gr HST tactical P40HST3 through it...Its equipped with the very first generation spring...
I also very recently purchased a gen 4 G19(PYU prefix)which arrived with the 03 spring installed. I fully expected to encounter issues with this pistol, particularly in light of the issues reported from some very reliable sources. However, after 400 rounds with both Winchester 147gr RA9T & 127gr RA9TA it to has been flawless, though like the dual recoil springed G26, it spits brass directly back into my face, as a result I will not yet carry it!
Interestingly, when I contacted Glock and inquired about the issue between the first three springs, they offered to send me an 04 spring even though I didn't request it, they didn't even request a serial # of me! So Clearly they've had some issues, though I feel they have them well in hand...
I have a GEN4 G-22 ser#PDN_ _ _ with a fired casing date 1-04-10,which I purchased 1-15-10. It has a unmarked RSA and I have fired over 5500 rounds through it . Most of these are my 140gr. reloads for GSSF matches and practice although I have fired 300 rds. of 165gr. T-Series Winchester also with no malfunctions to date. I also have a GEN4 G-37 ser#PTZ_ _ _ with a fired casing date of 8-16-10 that I purchased on 9-17-10. It has a 0-1 RSA and I have fired 200 rds. of Winchester Ranger 230 SXT, 150 rds, of Speer 185gr. TMJ, and 300 rds. of my 200gr. Precision reloads all without any malfunctions. I have installed Vanek GSSF Trigger Kits in both pistols from the start as I use both pistols for competition only.
The problem on the early G22 springs is when they break. Major malfunction.
I purchased a Gen4 G22 in October. I traded it away in December.
My biggest complain was with the gun shooting significantly to the left. The factory sights shot to the left as did the Heinie's I installed. I literally had the Heinie drifted all the way to the right to get the gun to shoot point of aim.
I have now talked to several other people who have had the same issues with the Gen4's. I'm sure if I felt like taking the time I could have bitched at Glock enough for them to try to fix the problem. I'm not sure if it's a QC issue with the barrel or slide or what was going on. Someone wanted the gun more than me so I was happy to trade it away before I got the issue sorted out.
I should note that most of my shooting was done with an X300 attached and the gun experienced no malfunctions.
I did NOT like the grip texture (I prefer the Gen2 guns) and did NOT like the new finish, which I found to attract and hold dirt much more than their previous slick black finish or even their much older gray finish.
I may pick up another Gen4 G22 sometime. Hopefully the issue of it shooting to the left will be worked out by then.
Careful, Kev, or you'll get lectured on proper shooting technique being the issue with the shooting left.
My Gen4 G19 and Gen4 G23 both shot significantly left - like you, I had to drift my sights nearly all the way right to get near COM. Of course, I'm a novice Glock shooter, only having shot them for about 22 years, and running 7-10K rounds/year without left-leaning issues through my 3rd Gen G19s... My new Gen4 G26 also shoots left, but not as badly as the others, a minor sight offset got me back to center with it.
Having said that, I do like the grip reduction on the Gen4s, and think the texture was better than the 3rd Gen (which can get slippery).
Regards,
Kevin
I've accepted some Gen 4's are apparently problematic functioning wise so I might as well accept some are left shooters. Four of them here have been running like the proverbial sewing machines and don't exhibit left shooting any differently than Gen 2s and Gen 3's also in the battery.
Accuracy wise my Gen 4 G19 posted a 1.5" rested group of 5 shots at 25 yards this AM with Corbon 115 gr. +P+. It's not that useful of a load to keep buying for the price but I was curious to try it since it seemed to be an accurate load for some gun writers. It sure was in my Gen 4 G19. Gen 4 G17 didn't like it as much although they both functioned fine for the few rounds I put through them today.
This Corbon load, Speer std pressure 124 gr Gold Dot, and Hornady 115 gr XTP loads all ejected 6-7 feet to the right like other defensive loads. Remington 115gr UMC and Federal 95 gr SPs just barely clear my right shoulder OTOH. But hey all run well. These guns each have thousands of rds through them.
Careful, Kev, or you'll get lectured on proper shooting technique being the issue with the shooting left.
My Gen4 G19 and Gen4 G23 both shot significantly left - like you, I had to drift my sights nearly all the way right to get near COM. Of course, I'm a novice Glock shooter, only having shot them for about 22 years, and running 7-10K rounds/year without left-leaning issues through my 3rd Gen G19s... My new Gen4 G26 also shoots left, but not as badly as the others, a minor sight offset got me back to center with it.
Having said that, I do like the grip reduction on the Gen4s, and think the texture was better than the 3rd Gen (which can get slippery).
Regards,
Kevin
So if you're a novice what does that make me?
Yeah, it's only like my twenty-something Glock that I've owned and that's not including ones that have been issued or the God-only-knows how many I've serviced as an armorer or trained with in the past.
I thought for awhile that it might be me, but I let some other folks shoot it and they shot left as well.
Then I thought it might be the slightly heavier trigger so I swapped out the Gen4 parts for Gen3 parts with a factory (-) connector. Still shot left.
So I can make a bunch of guesses as to why it shot left, but those would be only just that...guesses. Like I said someone else wanted it so I swapped. I hope Glock works it out because I'd actually like to give the G22 another try.
This will probably have me kicking myself soon, but I'm declaring mine good to go. I've used WWB, PMC, UMC and American Eagle, all mix of 115 and 124gr 9mm. My gun is the 17 with no bore and unmarked spring. I did a run and gun tonight and put another 125+ rounds through it.
Round count is at least 600 now in all kinds of different scenarios, limp wrist, rapid fire, etc. Not one stoppage or malfunction at all. <knocks on wood>
Street Survival
01-28-11, 20:44
This may come in handy and answer a lot of specific questions regarding Glock Recoil Guide Rod Springs.
That's an awesome chart - where did you find it?
Regards,
Kevin
platoonDaddy
01-28-11, 23:53
This may come in handy and answer a lot of specific questions regarding Glock Recoil Guide Rod Springs.
If that chart is correct, my Gen 4 G17 with no counter-bore with spring "02" is incorrect?
If that chart is correct, my Gen 4 G17 with no counter-bore with spring "02" is incorrect?
Gen 4 G17 without counter bored slide should have the 021 RS...
platoonDaddy
01-29-11, 06:15
Gen 4 G17 without counter bored slide should have the 021 RS...
My daddy use too say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and I agree. Over 2.5K rounds and running great with WalMart Federal 115gr.
Will call Glock and have them sent me the "02-1" spring and store in my range bag.
PatrolRifleGroup
01-29-11, 06:50
I've had my Gen4 17 for several months now, but never really had a chance to shoot it, due to recovering from elbow surgery. I finally got released back to full duty and had a chance to run some rounds through it. No problems to speak of, but the trigger really sucked. I loaned it to a task force buddy, who was shooting with the Feds for the day. He didn't have any FTE or FTF's, but also complained about the trigger and shooting left.
Since I really like the overall feel of the new texture and grip, I decided not to give up. I ordered a stock Gen3 trigger and trigger bar, as well as the Glockmeister stainless captured guide rod, that uses the Gen3 spring. I installed the parts and fired roughly 100 rounds through the pistol yesterday.
There was an immediate and dramatic improvement in the trigger. My final one-hole drill was about the size of a quarter, and consisted of an entire magazine's worth of ammo. The pistol stopped shooting left on me. I attribute this to the fact that you damned near had to stand on the Gen4 trigger to get it to break. My buddy complained of the same thing, and he's a much more avid shooter.
The Glockmeister guide rod is really well built. I have no hesistations on running this for duty. Where as my gun would consistently just "barf" the casings with the stock spring, they actually seem to eject with the Glockmeister. I even ran some really weak practice ammo through the new unit, and it ran/ejected just fine.
Overall, I was happy enough with the results that I dropped a Gen3 trigger /trigger bar into my Gen4 19. I will also be swapping over to a Glockmeister guide rod for that gun as well.
platoonDaddy
01-29-11, 07:48
I've had my Gen4 17 for several months now, but never really had a chance to shoot it, due to recovering from elbow surgery. I finally got released back to full duty and had a chance to run some rounds through it. No problems to speak of, but the trigger really sucked. I loaned it to a task force buddy, who was shooting with the Feds for the day. He didn't have any FTE or FTF's, but also complained about the trigger and shooting left.
Since I really like the overall feel of the new texture and grip, I decided not to give up. I ordered a stock Gen3 trigger and trigger bar, as well as the Glockmeister stainless captured guide rod, that uses the Gen3 spring. I installed the parts and fired roughly 100 rounds through the pistol yesterday.
There was an immediate and dramatic improvement in the trigger. My final one-hole drill was about the size of a quarter, and consisted of an entire magazine's worth of ammo. The pistol stopped shooting left on me. I attribute this to the fact that you damned near had to stand on the Gen4 trigger to get it to break. My buddy complained of the same thing, and he's a much more avid shooter.
The Glockmeister guide rod is really well built. I have no hesistations on running this for duty. Where as my gun would consistently just "barf" the casings with the stock spring, they actually seem to eject with the Glockmeister. I even ran some really weak practice ammo through the new unit, and it ran/ejected just fine.
Overall, I was happy enough with the results that I dropped a Gen3 trigger /trigger bar into my Gen4 19. I will also be swapping over to a Glockmeister guide rod for that gun as well.
What is the part number for the Gen 4 G17 "Glockmeister stainless captured guide rod"? Only located "Item Number: G4SS19CS" that is for a G19.
Hello,
Second trip to the range. 50 UMC Leadless 124gr rounds. G17 Gen4 RSA 0-2 prefix PWH.
- Multiple FTFs. I lost the count, about 8 in only 50 rounds.
- Failure to lock the slide 2 times, one of them with a stove pipe (the slide didn't lock and catch the casing).
- Accuracy of the first 10 shoots was good: 3 inches at 25 yards. Then it dropped dramatically after the first FTF. Probably it was me, but that's what happened.
My G17 is a lemon.
PatrolRifleGroup
01-29-11, 09:57
What is the part number for the Gen 4 G17 "Glockmeister stainless captured guide rod"? Only located "Item Number: G4SS19CS" that is for a G19.
Here's a link:
http://www.glockmeister.com/Glockmeister-Stainless-Steel-Captured-Guide-Rod-For-Gen-4-G17-22-31-and-37/productinfo/G4SS17CS/
operator81
01-29-11, 10:14
That's an awesome chart - where did you find it?
Regards,
Kevin
Agreed, I think that would make a good sticky...hint hint.
TheSmiter1
01-29-11, 15:29
Hello,
Second trip to the range. 50 UMC Leadless 124gr rounds. G17 Gen4 RSA 0-2 prefix PWH.
- Multiple FTFs. I lost the count, about 8 in only 50 rounds.
- Failure to lock the slide 2 times, one of them with a stove pipe (the slide didn't lock and catch the casing).
- Accuracy of the first 10 shoots was good: 3 inches at 25 yards. Then it dropped dramatically after the first FTF. Probably it was me, but that's what happened.
My G17 is a lemon.
Have other people shoot it. It sounds like your wrists may not have been locked.
Also, try the different backstraps. Your hands may just not work well with the current configuration.
Have other people shoot it. It sounds like your wrists may not have been locked.
Also, try the different backstraps. Your hands may just not work well with the current configuration.
Just came back from another range session. This time I used the M backstrap and Fiocchi 100gr rounds.
Ejection was OK. No more cases hitting me in the forehead. No FTE.
BUT, I still have FTF problems. This time 3 rounds out of 50. 2 times the round was hitting the barrel wall to the left and the other one it stuck on top of the chamber.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6659/ftf1.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3117/ftf2.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1986/ftf3.jpg
(serial removed with PS)
I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy a Gen 4 9mm.
TheSmiter1
01-30-11, 10:34
I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy a Gen 4 9mm.
Don't be so fast to pass judgment. I had an M&P9, and it failed to fire about every other round. I was a little upset, but I sent it to Smith, and it came back in 100% working order. The M&P9 is probably my favorite pistol. If I hadn't bothered to send it back to S&W, I'd probably hate them.
Contact Glock. Be superfluous and emphatic in your description of the problem and make sure they acknowledge there is a problem. If they don't offer a solution, insist that they take a look at it. The Gen 4 G17 may end up being your favorite pistol someday, but if you don't make an effort to get it fixed, you'll never know.
If they make you pay shipping, using an FFL usually saves quite a bit of money.
Hello,
Second trip to the range. 50 UMC Leadless 124gr rounds. G17 Gen4 - Accuracy of the first 10 shoots was good: 3 inches at 25 yards. Then it dropped dramatically after the first FTF. Probably it was me, but that's what happened.
My G17 is a lemon.
Probably?
FWIW, I think in your case, you should trade it for something else you'd like to try.
Has anyone seen a recoil spring keeper get beat out of shape like this after 200 rounds?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/lkbenson/DSCN1097.jpg
PatrolRifleGroup
01-30-11, 16:35
Anybody seen a recoil spring bend our of shape like this after 200 rounds?
Wow, that's no good! I'd either request a replacement from Glock, or order a Stainless Steel Guide Rod from Glockmeister. I'm pretty sure they only list the Gen4 Glock 19, but you can order one with a higher spring weight to accomodate the .40 caliber.
I pesonally know of 5 Gen4 recoil spring assemblies that have broken. All of them were while the gun was either being taken down or put back together.
While I still love my Gen4's (mostly for the smaller grip) I have changed to Glockmeister RSA's in all of them. I just ordered one for my Gen4 35 yesterday.
I found the bent RSA yesterday after a morning shooting thru a chronograph. I've already ordered a ss guide with spring and the adapter (so that you can use a g3 or earlier rsa in a g4)
I'll probably contact Glock anyway and see what they say.
Sad when Glock's need gunsmithing to run reliably.
PatrolRifleGroup
01-31-11, 06:46
The funny thing is, the Gen3 plastic guide rods always bothered me. I used to look at them and think, "This thing can't be that reliable." Yet, they have never failed me in 12 years on the job. Now, Glock finally comes out with a stout metal assembly, and it kind of blows. I guess it's just one of life's little lessons.
glockshooter
01-31-11, 08:03
You are using 100grain ammo and are surprised the gun won't work. I think it has been well documented that light ammo has had poor results. A lot of guns won't work consistently with 100 grain ammo. I am not defending Glock I just think you are setting you and your gun up for failure by your ammo choices.
Matt
Just came back from another range session. This time I used the M backstrap and Fiocchi 100gr rounds.
Ejection was OK. No more cases hitting me in the forehead. No FTE.
BUT, I still have FTF problems. This time 3 rounds out of 50. 2 times the round was hitting the barrel wall to the left and the other one it stuck on top of the chamber.
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/6659/ftf1.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3117/ftf2.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1986/ftf3.jpg
(serial removed with PS)
I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy a Gen 4 9mm.
You are using 100grain ammo and are surprised the gun won't work. I think it has been well documented that light ammo has had poor results. A lot of guns won't work consistently with 100 grain ammo. I am not defending Glock I just think you are setting you and your gun up for failure by your ammo choices.
Matt
I also tried Remington 124gr ammo with results worse than this. The Fiocchi rounds had no problem with extraction but while feeding.
glockshooter
01-31-11, 13:11
Swat,
I'm not saying are making the problem up. What I was saying is choosing underpowered ammo is not going to help you any. I acknowledge that something is probably not right. I would be willing to bet that a heavy recoil spring and lite ammo play a major part in this problem.
I whole heartily believe that Glock made a poor choice in releasing a gun without it being throughly tested and proven just like every other pistol they have ever made. I have an early gen4 17 and it has not had a single hiccup. The gun has a few thousand round through it, and I don't do hardly any target shooting. 98% of my round have been in training and matches.
The point to both of my posts was to say if you get full powered ammo you will probably have better results.
I hope you figure out your gun or get one that works better for you.
Swat,
I'm not saying are making the problem up. What I was saying is choosing underpowered ammo is not going to help you any. I acknowledge that something is probably not right. I would be willing to bet that a heavy recoil spring and lite ammo play a major part in this problem.
I whole heartily believe that Glock made a poor choice in releasing a gun without it being throughly tested and proven just like every other pistol they have ever made. I have an early gen4 17 and it has not had a single hiccup. The gun has a few thousand round through it, and I don't do hardly any target shooting. 98% of my round have been in training and matches.
The point to both of my posts was to say if you get full powered ammo you will probably have better results.
I hope you figure out your gun or get one that works better for you.
I understand your view but I expect Gen 4 to be as reliable as a Gen 3 as a paid the same amount of money for the evolution of a product.
I've just called my Glock representative. They are sending me a gen 4 trigger bar and a gen 3 trigger bar for testing. Mi trigger bar bump is having evident friction with the slide. Will post results when available.
Update:
Glock's Customer Service is bar none. I called Glock's Direct Support line, and explained to them the issue we were having with the Gen 4 G17.
Since the slide on this particular unit is non-counterbored... they sent me a RSA with the nylon bushing... it has 0-2-1 on the end of it. I explained that we have a class this week, and needed the RSA as soon as they could get it to me. I offered to pay for overnight shipping. Glock sent it out overnight, free of charge. It was ordered Friday, arrived today.
We are running our Tactical Operator's Course this week, so this pistol will be run hard. Tomorrow is handgun day, so we shall see if this RSA cures the issue.
I would be willing to bet that it will.
I will update this post tomorrow, after running the G17 with the American Eagle 115 grain FMJ.
Ga Shooter
02-01-11, 08:38
Update:
Glock's Customer Service is bar none. I called Glock's Direct Support line, and explained to them the issue we were having with the Gen 4 G17.
Since the slide on this particular unit is non-counterbored... they sent me a RSA with the nylon bushing... it has 0-2-1 on the end of it. I explained that we have a class this week, and needed the RSA as soon as they could get it to me. I offered to pay for overnight shipping. Glock sent it out overnight, free of charge. It was ordered Friday, arrived today.
We are running our Tactical Operator's Course this week, so this pistol will be run hard. Tomorrow is handgun day, so we shall see if this RSA cures the issue.
I would be willing to bet that it will.
I will update this post tomorrow, after running the G17 with the American Eagle 115 grain FMJ.
How long did it take to get the springs? I ordered a couple at the 1st of Dec. No joy so last week I ordered again still no joy. I am in Savannah usually only takes 1-2 days from Glock to me. Are they backordered or wait listing?
I have 6 4th gens one G17, and g23, g22, g,35.
the .40's have been 100% for about 4000 rounds.
I have loaned the G17, 4th gen to several students and it has proved to be very reliable!!!! cant say with honesty that it was 100% ( as Im not running it) but lets just say I carry it from time to time!!
Im fully sold on the 4th gen Glocks!!!!!! The G35 4th gen is the Best .40 I've ever shot!!! it has way less recoil and muzzle flip than the 3rd gen G35 ( with the same ammo)
I have 6 4th gens one G17, and g23, g22, g,35.
the .40's have been 100% for about 4000 rounds.
Im fully sold on the 4th gen Glocks!!!!!! The G35 4th gen is the Best .40 I've ever shot!!! it has way less recoil and muzzle flip than the 3rd gen G35 ( with the same ammo)
G22 Gen4 or G35 Gen4..... Hmmmmmm, very, very tempting comments, Prdator! :)
G22 Gen4 or G35 Gen4..... Hmmmmmm, very, very tempting comments, Prdator! :)
The 4th Gen G35 is IT in .40 IMHO!! I cant wait for the 4th Gen G34 to!!
Ok, today was handgun day for the class. We started off with rifle zero, then on into handgun drills.
I gave one of the students the G17 GEN 4, and he ran it today, for a total of 400 rounds through it. The 0-2-1 spring solved the stove pipe issues completely. The gun ran flawlessly with Speer Gold Dot 124 Grain +P, Winchester White Box 115 Grain, and the American Eagle 115 FMJ that gave us fits with the original RSA.
Issue fixed.
GA Shooter... Glock overnighted it to me. I ordered it Friday evening, and I had it in my hands yesterday. They didn't charge me.
As stated earlier in this thread... my wife has a GEN 4 G22 as her issued duty weapon. So far, she has 350 rounds through it with zero issues.
That is the extent of my experience with GEN 4 Glocks. Problem solved on the G17.
Cheers!
I've followed the Gen4 G17 issues somewhat. I'm looking to get another G17 in a few short months, I love the feel of the Gen4s and am gaining a little confindence that the problems are close to being fixed. What exactly should I look for in choosing a Gen4 G17? Is there a serial # range I should look for? If I purchase one face to face in a shop what RSA should I look for upon disassembly?
platoonDaddy
02-03-11, 11:51
I've followed the Gen4 G17 issues somewhat. I'm looking to get another G17 in a few short months, I love the feel of the Gen4s and am gaining a little confindence that the problems are close to being fixed. What exactly should I look for in choosing a Gen4 G17? Is there a serial # range I should look for? If I purchase one face to face in a shop what RSA should I look for upon disassembly?
I have one of the pre-counterBore Gen 4 G17's that is running great, but knowing what I know now I would opt for the newer counterBore G17's with the "02" spring.
Guys, this is not a thread to have a discussion in. You either have real world, first hand experience to offer or you don't. If you do post it here so LAV can compile data. If you don't find one of the other Gen4 Glock threads to post in.
Update:
Mysteriously... the GEN 4 G17 that seemed to have fixed itself with the 0-2-1 RSA that Glock sent to us... started stove piping again.
I ran it today, and had three stove pipes in one 17 round magazine, running American Eagle 115 grain FMJ.
Three other shooters experienced the exact same issue with this ammo, running this exact gun. This is really interesting to me, since Tuesday, after we put the RSA in, there were ZERO issues. Today, it was back to the same exact malfunction.
I will call Glock again tomorrow and let them know.
For comparison, my Glock 34 runs the American Eagle just fine. So does every G17 we have in inventory. I added this to show that this particular GEN 4 G17 may just not like the American Eagle Ammo.
I have a G19 gen 4 with the 03 spring.
I have not had any problems shooting Fiocchi, American Eagle and WWB ammo. My brother in law tried to run some ammo from Walmart and it had some stove pipes.
I think I may have some issues with the slide not always locking back on the last round. It doesn't happen every time, so perhaps it's my grip or thumb placement. I'll have to pay attention to which ammo I'm using in the future to see if there is trend.
I'm more of a Sig and HK guy. This is my first Glock that I've owned (I have shot gen 3 17s and 19s before). If not for the smaller grip I never would've bought it.
You can argue that Glock messed up with the 9mm guns. But the dual recoil springs makes for one smooth shooting gun. My brother in law has been shooting a gen 3 23 for years and he thought my 19 felt like a toy. It shoots so smooth that I'm having to consider whether to stick with Sigs and HK or sell some to buy more Glocks.
Submariner
02-04-11, 10:39
I bought a Gen. 4 G19 (0-3 recoil spring assembly) due to the reduced size of its grip. First round of cheap Remington stove-piped. A clue. Every 5-7 rounds thereafter experienced a malfunction of one sort or another unless I was shooting NATO-spec 9mm Ranger.
On MLK Day, I tried to contact Glock about these issues. The CS mailbox was full. I managed to leave a message with technical support. No one was at work due to snow.
On 21 Jan. Fred called. He is, according to folks on the errornet, one of the senior Customer Service guys at the Smyrna plant. Very smooth talker. He asked if I had been taken care of? Yes, says I, the dark day when I purchased a new Gen4 G19, I was truly taken care of. {Robust laughter from Fred.}
He inquired if I was having ejection problems: changing ejection pattern, stove pipes, empty cases re-chambering (sometimes backwards?)
Yes, to all the above.
Was I using Wally World white box ammunition? He asked because the G19 was "intended to be a service pistol" and "designed for service loads not weak target loads." Weak target loads would "require a significant break-in period."
No, says I, I put over 400 rounds of Dick's finest Remington 9mm through it along with 100 rounds of Winchester Ranger .
Oh, Remington is even worse that the Wally World white box ammunition...
Bottom line: Glock would be sending me, "at no charge with free shipping," the latest Recoil Spring Assembly which, being "a couple pounds lighter," will "enable your G19 Service Pistol to function as designed, even with Wally World white box ammunition."
Sigh.
Early this week I received an 0-4 recoil spring assembly. Two hundred rounds of crap Remington 9mm with no malfunctions so far. Ejection pattern now ranges from 4 to 5 o'clock.
Today I took my NIB G19Gen4 along with my NIB G19 3rd generation to my local gun club. The Gen 4 was purchased in November and the 3rd gen 19 picked up in December.
The Gen4 is a red label gun with a PWM prefix. The fired shell casing was collected on August 3rd, 2010. It came with the 0-3 recoil spring.
I started with 100 rounds of Blazer Brass 9mm FMJ. The weight was 115 grains. All 100 rounds went through the pistol with no malfunctions BUT consistently ejected erraticaly and often directly into my face.
I then fired 100 rounds of Federal 115 grain FMJ. The 24th round hung up as a stovepipe malfunction. the rest went right on through. The ejection was again erratic.
The exact same ammo from the same lot numbers went through the NIB Gen3 M19 with excellent ejection and no malfunctions.
Based on past experience with a Gen4 G17 I have decided to not shoot the new M19G4 again untill I can get an 0-4 spring for it.
My previous experience with a Gen4 G17 was atrocious. It was a Blue Label gun I bought NIB in March of 2010. PFB prefix. I was averaging a failure to extract/stovepipe for each 75 rounds fired. This was with the "no number" recoil spring and the ammo was all factory 115 ball training ammo. Several different brands including Federal, Remington, Blazer Brass, Winchester whitebox and some Remington 115 JHPs totaling 500+ rounds. After this painful experience I was sent the 0-2 spring to try out. In my case it made things worse. I even upped the ante by putting some 124 grain Remington ball and Remington Golden Saber 124 grain JHP premium ammo. In 34 rounds of the Golden Saber we had FOUR failures to eject from two different shooters with two different magazines. At over 1000 logged rounds the problem would not go away. I then had another friend try some of his 147 grain JHP match ammo. It too had a failures in the 100 plus rounds we fired. I stopped shooting the gun at that point.
Some months later, (November,2010) I took the pistol in person to some GLOCK reps at a local SWAT competition. They were helpful and fired 250 rounds of their Federal 147 grain JHP duty ammo. The gun did not choke with any of it but it still ejected poorly hitting the rep in the face. Another 75 rounds of Blazer brass went downrange with no malfunctions other than face hits with the brass. That pistol has been parked ever since. I might try to get a 0-21 spring for it since it did not have the cut in the slide.
Right now I have the 3rd generation G19 on my belt for off duty carry. The Gen4 guns have worn out their welcome with me.
Well I thought I would throw in my experience with my new Gen4 Glock 19.
Model: Glock 19 Picked up though Criminal Justice student / LEO program
Generation: 4
Recoil Spring: 03
Backstrap: None (Small Grip)
Ammo tested: Federal 115 gr. 9mm
Serial # prefix: PUX
Well today I got a chance to put the first 200 rounds though my new Glock 19 that I picked up last week and I am very happy to report that I did not have any issues what so ever. The ejection pattern was very consistent and the ejection was nice and strong. I can not recall a single shot where the brass just "dribbled" out of the gun.
The only thing that I did prior to shooting it was I let the slide locked back for a day or two to wear the spring down a bit.
I have a Gen 4 17 that has been flawless, the slide was non recessed and shipped with the 02 spring. Glock later sent me the 0-1-2 per my request. I mostly shoot WWB and never had a single issue.
I wanted to follow up on my post above. At a local GSSF match in Orlando I again met with GLOCK armorers. I recieved an 021 spring for my G17G4 and three hundred rounds later of TulAmmo (100) Federal 115 ball (100) and Blazer Brass 115 ball(100) the extraction was perfect and NO brass into the face. I am now happy with it.
They also gave me an 04 spring for the G19G4. I put another 200 rounds of Federal and Blazer brass 115 ball through that pistol and it too had perfect operation without that nasty habit of blowing brass into my face.
I am now a verry happy camper. :)
It was explained to me by the armorer that the 02 spring for the g17 would sometimes move in the slide slot hole due to the lack of a shelf for the guiderod in the slide. The 021 would fit the slide and create its own shelf in the spring assembly thus allowing for a unencumbered recoil compression. Sounded good to me and the gun shoots great. My faith has been restored.
Glock G23 Gen 4, RBK s/n prefix, counter bored slide, 0 3 dual recoil spring.
Before first firing I cleaned the gun with FP10, which also lubes.
14 rounds Gold Dot 180 GR.
14 rounds 180 GR. plated Flat Point over 6.9 GR. AA#5
13 rounds 180 GR. plated Flat Point over 6.9 GR. AA#5
13 rounds 180 GR. plated Flat Point over 6.9 GR. AA#5
54 rounds fired.
No failures of any kind.
Trigger pull is heavy.
I plan to install a smooth-faced trigger and a 3.5# connector and do the 25 cent fluff n buff trigger job. I'm hoping that will result in a trigger pull of about 5#. I also plan a 9mm conversion set up for this gun to be an alternate to my G19 Gen 3.
I like this gun! Wonderful grip... I wish it was more sharp like the RTF, but it's a significant improvement over the Gen 3 grip texture.
The Gen 4 feels ever-so-slightly softer shooting than my last G23, which was a 3rd Gen.
The finish is slightly grey black and more matte finish than Gen 3 Glocks and so far I think its a nice finish.
This will probably have me kicking myself soon, but I'm declaring mine good to go. I've used WWB, PMC, UMC and American Eagle, all mix of 115 and 124gr 9mm. My gun is the 17 with no bore and unmarked spring. I did a run and gun tonight and put another 125+ rounds through it.
Round count is at least 600 now in all kinds of different scenarios, limp wrist, rapid fire, etc. Not one stoppage or malfunction at all. <knocks on wood>
To add, I'm now at around 1500+ rounds, shooting a few run and gun events and routine qualifying. In addition to the manufacturers above, I shot Fiocchi 124gr and even ran through 50 ancient reloads that my great grandfather gave me prior to passing away(he retired from Dayton PD in like 1963, so these things are easily from the 70's-80's). I have an occasional odd ejection that goes over my head, but that seems to be under extreme rapid fire and even then I've only noticed maybe 10 of these ejections.
Other than that, not one FTE/stovepipe/misfeed. I use a mix of my Gen 4 and Gen 3 mags.
I'll count myself as lucky.
Well I thought I would throw in my experience with my new Gen4 Glock 19.
Model: Glock 19 Picked up though Criminal Justice student / LEO program
Generation: 4
Recoil Spring: 03
Backstrap: None (Small Grip)
Ammo tested: Federal 115 gr. 9mm
Serial # prefix: PUX
Well today I got a chance to put the first 200 rounds though my new Glock 19 that I picked up last week and I am very happy to report that I did not have any issues what so ever. The ejection pattern was very consistent and the ejection was nice and strong. I can not recall a single shot where the brass just "dribbled" out of the gun.
The only thing that I did prior to shooting it was I let the slide locked back for a day or two to wear the spring down a bit.
Well today I ran 150 rounds of Federal Champion 115 gr down range as well as 25 rounds of Winchester PDX1 124 gr +P 9mm. So far in 375 rounds no malfunctions yet. I did open up the envalope that contained the two pre fired cases from glock and I was surprised that they test fire their stuff with CCI aluminum cased ammo.
platoonDaddy
02-18-11, 18:35
Well today I ran 150 rounds of Federal Champion 115 gr down range as well as 25 rounds of Winchester PDX1 124 gr +P 9mm. So far in 375 rounds no malfunctions yet. I did open up the envalope that contained the two pre fired cases from glock and I was surprised that they test fire their stuff with CCI aluminum cased ammo.
Amen! Thank you, I have been stating that for months. They certainly don't fire any NATO rounds, just cheap off the shelf ammo.
Amen! Thank you, I have been stating that for months. They certainly don't fire any NATO rounds, just cheap off the shelf ammo.
Yeah especially when Glock is telling people "Its a service pistol balh blah blahy only quality ammo blah blah blah" I consider WWB and federal to be the entry point into decent ammunition and anything should be able to run it.
come on the controversy continues! LOL that isn't a reliability or a proof test. Its to get the guns signature for NJ or CA or some such. That doesn't mean a heckuva lot.
Four Gen 4 9mm's here have now eaten 11K plus of that cheap stuff without a stoppage yet. That told me enough. 01 and 03 springs too boot.
I have 1014 rounds through one of my Gen4 G19s, no issues yet.
willowofwisp
02-23-11, 20:19
oh ok.
did you buy it new or used? shouldn't have white lettering.
*****
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