View Full Version : Minority Teens Beat Pregnant Teen On Bus In Seattle
I'll tell you fellas, I'm not an "intolerant" guy by any means. Anyone who knew me personally would vouch for this and then some. But I really get tired of this crap sometimes. To be painfully honest, I knew the color of the attackers before I saw the video.
Personally I am beyond ready for black leaders to call a spade a spade and get the massive out of control segment of their population in line. Flash mobs are the perfect overall example, violence and disrespect running rampant. These "leaders" need to stop bitching about what they are entitled to and fix the ever increasing problem. This for the good of us all.
Whether it makes some uncomfortable or not, the reality of the the situation is that a disproportionate number of blacks commit crime. Until that fact is addressed with a greater degree of seriousness nothing will ever be done. Someone, somewhere needs to step up to the plate in that community.
Our school district just voted down a plan to bus kids in from "underprivileged areas" to our system, and while I have a pretty big heart I couldn't be happier with their decision. One of the reasons I pay the taxes I do and busted my butt to get in this town was to keep my son away from that crap influence. But, especially around here I still see it as only a matter of time unless we somehow keep this state leaning red...for a long time.
And ban all rap, the shit has become societal poison. Gone, goodbye and good riddance.
Caught on Tape: Teens Beat Pregnant Teen on Bus
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/17/earlyshow/main7159518.shtml?tag=stack
Note to potential troublemakers: This is not in the least about race or hatred of, it is about all of our combined reality. This stuff is fact and it is deeply disturbing to many of us whether we will say it or not. I'm not just venting but also interested in where others in this pool of knowledge may see the problem going on a mature level.
Belmont31R
12-17-10, 10:24
Ive been labeled a racist many times for pointing out black people have a much higher crime rate than any other race in the US. Its because we (white people) are holding them down so they have to resort to crime to earn money....:rolleyes:
Unfortunately being a victim, and laying guilt trips on people is a cottage industry.
Littlelebowski
12-17-10, 10:39
Obviously not a hate crime as a white person is the victim. Move along.
This is a very sad event indeed.......I hope they are punished to the full extent of the law.
Your comment is true, however would you also agree that most crimes are commited by poor people? If so, would you also agree that a large percentage of the Black community would be classified as poor? I'm not denying what you wrote, just providing explanation as some tend to make this a problem of color/culture rather than socio-economic. Same can be said for the White community which still leads the crime figures based on sheer numbers because they make up the majority not becasue they are more disposed to criminal behavior. But even in the White community the majority of the criminals are what would be considered poor people. Do some quick research and you'll find that the crime rate amongst "well off/middle class" Blacks mirrors that of "well off/middle class" Whites. So my point is to not get so jaded that you place the blame on color/culture instead of the larger factor which is socio-economics.
montanadave
12-17-10, 11:00
I certainly have no ready solutions and, frankly, have little or no personal experience in interacting with the black community, as there are very few blacks living in Montana.
Montana does, however, have a large Native American population and multiple reservations scattered throughout the state. The problems associated with blacks in the inner city are mirrored on the reservations and in the neighboring communities. Crime, drug and alcohol abuse, chronic disease, family violence, suicide, divorce, single parents, dropout rates, unemployment, etc. are all epidemic.
And many of the same conditions pervade both communities. Lousy employment opportunities; pervasive poverty coupled with a system of entitlement programs which, all too often, seem to only enable the most dysfunctional members of the community while doing little or nothing to advance those seeking to make improvements in their lives; and a lack of education.
Without addressing these core issues (unemployment, poverty, and education), I don't know how you solve the problems which stem from them. The only solution I can see is education and vocational training but what good is that if there aren't any jobs once someone is qualified to work?
My question is when is enough actually going to be enough? Who needs to step up and give the guilty party the lam-blasting dose of reality they need? Obama? A tough Republican mayor (See: Frank Rizzo) willing to kick ass in their respective city? A rap "star" who has renounced the thug life and is willing to publicly take a vocal but tough stance?
Maybe we should also start facing the overt fact that cities with large black populations and who are run by black democrats are crime ridden shitholes because of just those very same people. Why isn't this relevant to the leaders of this nation? Why don't we or won't we do something to address the blatant problem?
And most importantly, why aren't blacks being held socially accountable? So we can appease our teens with rap while hating ourselves for injustices committed by others, most of them well over one hundred years ago?
The questions as well as resentment will likely continue to build over time so long as the nation keeps it's collective head buried in the sand.
Belmont31R
12-17-10, 11:12
This is a very sad event indeed.......I hope they are punished to the full extent of the law.
Your comment is true, however would you also agree that most crimes are commited by poor people? If so, would you also agree that a large percentage of the Black community would be classified as poor? I'm not denying what you wrote, just providing explanation as some tend to make this a problem of color/culture rather than socio-economic. Same can be said for the White community which still leads the crime figures based on sheer numbers because they make up the majority not becasue they are more disposed to criminal behavior. But even in the White community the majority of the criminals are what would be considered poor people. Do some quick research and you'll find that the crime rate amongst "well off/middle class" Blacks mirrors that of "well off/middle class" Whites. So my point is to not get so jaded that you place the blame on color/culture instead of the larger factor which is socio-economics.
I don't think so... doing some "research" about 1/2-2/3rds of people in jail are black. Only 10-15% white. Thats from the US census.
Source on the part in blue?
I certainly have no ready solutions and, frankly, have little or no personal experience in interacting with the black community, as there are very few blacks living in Montana.
Montana does, however, have a large Native American population and multiple reservations scattered throughout the state. The problems associated with blacks in the inner city are mirrored on the reservations and in the neighboring communities. Crime, drug and alcohol abuse, chronic disease, family violence, suicide, divorce, single parents, dropout rates, unemployment, etc. are all epidemic.
And many of the same conditions pervade both communities. Lousy employment opportunities; pervasive poverty coupled with a system of entitlement programs which, all too often, seem to only enable the most dysfunctional members of the community while doing little or nothing to advance those seeking to make improvements in their lives; and a lack of education.
Without addressing these core issues (unemployment, poverty, and education), I don't know how you solve the problems which stem from them. The only solution I can see is education and vocational training but what good is that if there aren't any jobs once someone is qualified to work?
+1
So many never take the time to really dig into what the root causes are before passing judgement. Before you can pass judgement or even attempt to fix an issue you must first understand why the situation exist in the first place.
The fix isn't as simple as having some prominent person stand up and say "enough is enough" since that doesn't fix the actual issues which this all stems from. What yo are seeing is a monster of a problem that has been 400yrs in the making. I know most don't want to or like to talk about the past, but you have to understand ALL of the events of the past to understand their influence on the where things are today. I frustrates me how so many are quick to mention "injustices" which were committed over 100 years ago which is such an incomplete and ignorant thought. Like I said the issues you see are 400 years in the making and as much as you may not want to believe it most of those injustices didn't end over 100years ago. I'm not trying to go into a whole history lesson here, but I will urge you to spend some time looking at the big picture and try to understand just how much of what you see today really is the result of Slavery, Jim Crow, and a whole systematic oppression of a people over the course of 100's of years.
I would dive into tis further but gotta run into a meeting. Will check back in a little later if anyone needs more explanation.
can hear the BS now
if the white girl just gave up her MP3 player the other girls would not have to beat her for it !
so its the white girls fault !!!!
and imagine that ALL the girls had prior records ??
yeah such great contributors to society ! ahhhh 14 and having priors and going out to rob people !!!! what a life we are giving them I bet they are all on welfare and dont work meaning the parents also
I think they should start taking away all welfare from the parents when this stuff happens
Obviously not a hate crime as a white person is the victim. Move along.
This about sums it up. There will be no mention of race and it will be determined by the Police that race did not factor into the attack. If it had been the other way around Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be on CNN right now making silly rhymes and banging their fist on the desk over this outrage!
I'm not denying what you wrote, just providing explanation as some tend to make this a problem of color/culture rather than socio-economic.
And here we have one of the roots of the problem. Hate to break it to you but there absolutely is a cultural aspect to this. Failure to see that elephant in the room will only lead you to further incorrect assessments. If you disagree, consider the overall state of most predominantly black nations compared to most "white" or western nations.
This is not to pretend that there aren't a wealth of utterly spectacular black people out there, because there are. Some of whom are my friends and neighbors. But it just seems that the more power they have to govern themselves the more they go by the wayside. I take no joy in observing this, but it's just there so what else can I do?
I would suggest taking a sociology 100 level class, then maybe you'll begin to understand the issues your talking about, and then maybe you can talk about this without sounding like an ignorant jack ass.
Not saying your observations are "wrong" per se, buy you say it yourself, you sound ignorant. How is anything going to ever change by making this an us vs. them issue?
There are plenty of night classes offered in this field, and the field of criminology. Sign up for one at a local community college!
...and then maybe you can talk about this without sounding like an ignorant jack ass.
Coming from you, on this particular issue, I will take that as confirmation that I am on the right track with my assessments. Thanks for the solid reinforcement. :)
Just talking facts here, nothing more. Or how about you refer to Geography 101 and provide us with a list of successful predominantly black countries to use for accurate comparison purposes?
Belmont31R
12-17-10, 11:43
+1
So many never take the time to really dig into what the root causes are before passing judgement. Before you can pass judgement or even attempt to fix an issue you must first understand why the situation exist in the first place.
The fix isn't as simple as having some prominent person stand up and say "enough is enough" since that doesn't fix the actual issues which this all stems from. What yo are seeing is a monster of a problem that has been 400yrs in the making. I know most don't want to or like to talk about the past, but you have to understand ALL of the events of the past to understand their influence on the where things are today. I frustrates me how so many are quick to mention "injustices" which were committed over 100 years ago which is such an incomplete and ignorant thought. Like I said the issues you see are 400 years in the making and as much as you may not want to believe it most of those injustices didn't end over 100years ago. I'm not trying to go into a whole history lesson here, but I will urge you to spend some time looking at the big picture and try to understand just how much of what you see today really is the result of Slavery, Jim Crow, and a whole systematic oppression of a people over the course of 100's of years.
I would dive into tis further but gotta run into a meeting. Will check back in a little later if anyone needs more explanation.
Oh BS. Things people did over a hundred years ago makes someone commit a crime today? I barely know who my ancestors were 100 years ago let alone that having any impact on what I do now. In fact my ancestors lived through 2 world wars, and when they came to the US they had nothing more than what they had on their backs. None of them turned into criminals, and actually did pretty well for themselves. Speaking of which Europe was decimated twice in the last 100 years, and somehow rebuilt to become 1st world nations. Why didn't they turn into a bunch of thugs? My grandparents, and great aunts/uncles grew up getting strafed by Nazi planes for shits and giggles.
My opinion is that social programs keeping people in section 8 housing packed like sardines, giving them money to sit around and do nothing, pump out kids without any repercussions, and enabling by the "victim" crew contribute much more to the issue than what happened in the 1800's or sooner. Democrats have basically turned their social programs into modern day plantations by keeping black people grouped into ghettos, and by propagating the victim mentality makes people think its ok to not try to succeed at anything positive because if they don't achieve something its not their fault but whiteys.
Black people today have plenty of opportunity, and even more so in some cases because its easier to get into colleges, they have more scholarships available since its racist to have white only scholarships but not black only ones, ect. They can join the military just like anyone else if they want to escape where they came from. Theres no reason why anyone has to resort to becoming a gang banger or other deviant unless its by choice.
Another choice is the number of babies born to single mothers with no father in the picture. Being poor doesn't mean you have to spread your legs, and pump out kids.
Mo_Zam_Beek
12-17-10, 11:49
Personally I am beyond ready for black leaders to call a spade a spade and get the massive out of control segment of their population in line. Flash mobs are the perfect overall example, violence and disrespect running rampant. These "leaders" need to stop bitching about what they are entitled to and fix the ever increasing problem. This for the good of us all.
Read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Shakedown-Exposing-Real-Jesse-Jackson/dp/0895261650
The reason it will never happen is because it runs counter to how these 'leaders' make their money and generate power.
My question is when is enough actually going to be enough? Who needs to step up and give the guilty party the lam-blasting dose of reality they need?
Because they watched what happened to Bill Cosby, and mostly because there is no money or power in doing so.
It is easier to make a name, money and carve out some modicum power for yourself by making wild claims like Congresswoman Maxine Waters - making the charge that the CIA was responsible for the crack cocaine epidemic of the late '80s (and others that have expanded on that claim) as a purposeful means of discrediting, imprisoning, destroying and murdering black culture in America.
Or the good Rev. Al Sharpton who made a name for himself by backing the claims of a teen named Tawana Brawley that said she was gang raped for 4 days by white cops. While the rape case was thrown out [Reason - lack of evidence and the thought that the girl was fearing reprisals from her step father (a convicted felon for murdering his former wife) for curfew violation]; Sharpton had filed a $150 million dollar defamation suit, only to later admit that he had never spoken with the teenager in any detail about the case. Moreover advisers to the case themselves doubted the story of a racially motivated abduction and rape of the girl, and that ''the two lawyers and Sharpton were making it up as they went along.
Who grabs more headlines today? Maxine and Al or Bill?
Good luck
Mo_Zam_Beek
12-17-10, 12:01
My opinion is that social programs keeping people in section 8 housing packed like sardines, giving them money to sit around and do nothing, pump out kids without any repercussions, and enabling by the "victim" crew contribute much more to the issue than what happened in the 1800's or sooner. Democrats have basically turned their social programs into modern day plantations by keeping black people grouped into ghettos, and by propagating the victim mentality makes people think its ok to not try to succeed at anything positive because if they don't achieve something its not their fault but whiteys.
Spot on.
Wahoo95 - you are the target sympathetic audience for the self proclaimed 'leadership' of black society in America. People like yourself really should read the book I posted above.
Question - if what you say is true - why do we not see the same issues in the Chinese that were enslaved to build the railroad?
Good luck
All five "suspects" have prior arrests.
Oh, I guess society failed them the first time...
Any people committing crimes like this are a waste of oxygen.
.
Because they watched what happened to Bill Cosby...
He is the only one in his position that took the courageous step and he was stepped on for doing so. I found that extremely troubling as well as disappointing.
This is not a color issue, it is a sub culture issue.
There is a sub culture that stems from harsh reality of the ghettos/poverty stricken areas.
Considering blacks make up that majority in poverty stricken areas of the USA, the sub culture turns out to be predominately black.
It makes no difference what color, race, ethnicity, religion, etc, that group of people are in the ghettos, the sub culture will still emerge the same.
In my opinion, I think this whole "celebrate cultural diversity" shit is the cause of these incidents. This idealogy seperates rather than unites. We've seen this with all types of people in the US, most recently with Mexicans. "Celebrating cultural diversity" is equal to saying "think highly of your own kind and less of others".
And please don't ban rap, I love that stuff.
"kal is the name, spendin' cheese is my game. Safetyhit best chill out bro, or I'll pull out the fo-fo'":D
"kal is the name, spendin' cheese is my game. Safetyhit best chill out bro, or I'll pull out the fo-fo'":D
An M4C first...and hopefully last.
It makes no difference what color, race, ethnicity, religion, etc, that group of people are in the ghettos, the sub culture will still emerge the same.
Is that so? Well I'll tell you what, you take a drive through the worst white section of Philly (the northeast) and then haul on over to the worst black section(s) (north, southwest and increasingly south) and see where you'd rather have your car break down. Then report back to us, if your still around after the latter 3 of course.
"kal is the name, spendin' cheese is my game. Safetyhit best chill out bro, or I'll pull out the fo-fo'":D
That's fantastic.
:lazy2:
Is that so? Well I'll tell you what, you take a drive through the worst white section of Philly (the northeast) and then haul on over to the worst black section(s) (north, southwest and increasingly south) and see where you'd rather have your car break down. Then report back to us, if your still around after the latter 3 of course.
This doesn't mean anything.
Violent sub cultures emerge from all kinds of different people in all communities below the poverty line. Look at the mexican/south-americans in the southwest US. Look at the muslim youth in europe. Look at some of the british youth(chavs).
These types of people are everywhere. There's no stopping them from existing. But we can hold them accountable for their actions.
That's fantastic
An M4C first...and hopefully last
It was a joke, hence, the smilie. Let's calm down.
GermanSynergy
12-17-10, 13:04
I'm sure the DOJ will get right on this as a hate crime.... right.......right?
I'll tell you fellas, I'm not an "intolerant" guy by any means...
:laugh:
Is this the same Safety Hit who's called for banning everyting from clothing items to music he didn't like?
:laugh:
Is this the same Safety Hit who's called for banning everyting from clothing items to music he didn't like?
too much emotion.
BAN BAN BAN! Ban anything that makes me emotionally uncontrollable! BAN BAN BAN!
We're all guilty of it, doesn't mean it's right.
One who out laws is one who cannot find root cause.
These incidents have skyrocketed since the Obongo Usurper was sworn in. It will take 50 years for race relations to recover from this disastrous Presidency.
Also, the FBI has scrubbed crime statistics by race from its website.
Hmmmmm.......................
ghostman1960
12-17-10, 14:10
This is a very sad event indeed.......I hope they are punished to the full extent of the law.
Your comment is true, however would you also agree that most crimes are commited by poor people? If so, would you also agree that a large percentage of the Black community would be classified as poor? I'm not denying what you wrote, just providing explanation as some tend to make this a problem of color/culture rather than socio-economic. Same can be said for the White community which still leads the crime figures based on sheer numbers because they make up the majority not becasue they are more disposed to criminal behavior. But even in the White community the majority of the criminals are what would be considered poor people. Do some quick research and you'll find that the crime rate amongst "well off/middle class" Blacks mirrors that of "well off/middle class" Whites. So my point is to not get so jaded that you place the blame on color/culture instead of the larger factor which is socio-economics.
Bullshit. I grew up poor in one of the toughest sections of NYC and I never once beat up a pregnant woman on a bus. So spare me.
I'm sure the DOJ will get right on this as a hate crime.... right.......right?
The crime wasn't racially motivated so I doubt it. Not that I agree with criminalizing intent. A crime is a crime, being a racist shouldn't be against the law.
Mo_Zam_Beek
12-17-10, 14:27
This Seattle bus beating of a similar nature resulted in 15 - 36 weeks in Juvi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHZZdV3woM0
Whether it makes some uncomfortable or not, the reality of the the situation is that a disproportionate number of blacks commit crime.
A disproportionate number of dog attacks are committed by pit bulls.
The fact is that much of our reactions/behavior is encoded in our DNA.
:laugh:
Is this the same Safety Hit who's called for banning everyting from clothing items to music he didn't like?
Don't recall the clothing items, but yes I did advocate banning both hard core gangster rap here as well as organized protests aimed at the families of slain soldiers. Now that I think about it, what an unbelievably misguided, big brother advocating cocksu*ker I am. Death is too good for me I tell you.
When are even one of you idealogical geniuses going to stop with the witty comments and supply me with a successful black nation in Africa or elsewhere to debunk my assessment that there may be a cultural issue in play here? Keep in mind I am only discussing what I know to be fact, which is that there are likely none. Certainly not that I know of, anyhow.
And yes, I believe that deep seated dysfunction by many (but certainly not all) is being observed here in our country.
The fact is that much of our reactions/behavior is encoded in our DNA.
I don't believe this shit for a bit.
It's an environmental issue that ends up building a ****ed up sub culture.
An environment filled with hardship and uncertainty, is also filled with murder and robbery.
Stop trying to isolate certain races, ethnicites, and religions.
Rmplstlskn
12-17-10, 14:58
My experience, in my little sliver of the world, on why the negro race is headed for major FAIL... and thus more violence.
They are losing their YOUNG... To "ghetto" culture, ignorance, language barrier, crime and prison...
Why? Because NO ONE (less Bill Cosby), is leading the blacks into self-improvement and intellectual achievment... No one, including their MOTHERS, or their non-participatory fathers...
As one raised in a single-parent home that was broke and poor often, coming home from school many times to no electricity, I testify that it is not being POOR that is an issue, it is the RESULT.
The best example I have is the black "computer tech" I pushed our Manager to hire back many years ago. At the time, I patted myself on the back for helping him "get his foot in the door." We went out of way to make sure he started strong, with the support he needed as a new employee. It was not long until all of us saw how the way he spoke was NOT CONDUCIVE to business, nor effective in dealing with customers. He spoke to customers in a mix of Ghetto ebonics and mispronunciations.... (ask-ax, etc...). He lacked the understanding or ability to atleast PRETEND that he was interested in helping the customers, as he was like, at times, a blank wall. No enthusiasm to ensure a satisfied customer... He tended to not want to "be part of the team" and hung by himself, even after we all made him as welcome as possible, evenmoreso than any white employee would have gotten. We eventually fired him a few months later...
That was the begining of my revelation in the negro race decline...
Since then, I have become even more pessimistic...
My pet peeves: No one leads as a role model, or takes on the EBONICS problem... Bottom line, if they speak like in the ghetto, that is where they will stay. In business, where people make money to live a better life, you MUST be able to speak the LANGUAGE of business, and that is Americanized English. Even Barack Obama dares not tough this topic, even if he is a goods example of speaking the language of business (albeit he is anti-business).
No one dares take on the ghetto look... Dress like a hoodlum, you will NEVER rise in business... Better hope for a rap career or sports...
Many young boys are growing up to be just like their fathers... NO SHOWS... Black girls are raised to be like those girls in the video... Violent when denied what they believe they deserve... Thus the cycle continues...
And blacks are not the only ones corrupted by this "ghetto culture," for lack of better word. Whites as well... We have all seen them, the white boys and girls trying to be ghetto... That doesn't even get into the GANG culture aften associated with the ghetto culture...
I won't go on, as I think I made the point I wanted...
As of right now, I expect to see more and more violence from the black community. There are problems in other races, but no where as clearly defined and ingrained as the blacks...
Eventually this will result in SEGREGATION once again... Not legally, but initiated by the clustering of communities and the other races leaving the black communities. Those people on the fringes, like that white pregnant girl, will be the victims we hear about...
It may even result in a second civil war... If it gets worse, as I see it becoming... As eventually other races will say, "Enough is enough!"
Rmpl
Stop trying to isolate certain races, ethnicites, and religions.
Will do, just as soon as you or someone else comes up with one or two (imagine that, a whopping 2) examples of blacks successfully governing themselves internationally. I'm not talking a country with the lights on and running water, I'm talking one that you or I would feel safe traveling to without fear of all of our belongings being stolen at the airport and hotel. You seem comfortable dodging this topic, why is that?
And why are American blacks exempt from the behavioral traits displayed elsewhere in the world? If you can't give an answer to these questions, you really need to stop bitching about how misunderstood all those poor folks are. Attitudes like yours are a big, big part of the overall problem.
I don't believe this shit for a bit.
It's an environmental issue that ends up building a ****ed up sub culture.
Really?
If you want a bird dog, are you better off with a Pomeranian or a Labrador Retriever? I think there is something in the DNA of a lab which makes him a better bird dog. And yes, they are the same species.
Show me one country run by blacks which is not a complete shit hole.
Much of our behavior is encoded in our DNA.
examples of blacks successfully governing themselves
You beat me to it.
montanadave
12-17-10, 15:58
Wait for it... wait for it... and there it is!
These incidents have skyrocketed since the Obongo Usurper was sworn in. It will take 50 years for race relations to recover from this disastrous Presidency.
:rolleyes:
Good, glad that we seem to have narrowed the issue down a bit. Now if someone noteworthy would just publicly address the problem for what it is, a problem that goes beyond resentment over slavery and even beyond poverty.
Yes, it's a complex issue all right. But one we better deal with. If we never identify the issue as a society we can never fix it, just like the DOJ calling the acts of muslim extremists "man-made whateverthe****s". Possibly worse yet, we will have even more apologists such as Kal holding us accountable for their actions. :eek:
Facts should always matter to everyone.
QuietShootr
12-17-10, 16:10
I would suggest taking a sociology 100 level class, then maybe you'll begin to understand the issues your talking about, and then maybe you can talk about this without sounding like an ignorant jack ass.
Not saying your observations are "wrong" per se, buy you say it yourself, you sound ignorant. How is anything going to ever change by making this an us vs. them issue?
There are plenty of night classes offered in this field, and the field of criminology. Sign up for one at a local community college!
I have a degree in criminology, not from a community college.
Blacks commit more violent crimes per capita than whites. Predominantly black cities are more violent than predominantly white cities. Predominantly black countries are more violent than predominantly white countries.
What's your point? Facts are facts.
This stuff is nothing new, how about a "Beat Whitey Day"?
http://newsone.com/nation/newsonestaff2/beat-whitey-day-allegedly-declared-by-black-kids-at-county-fair/
Of course such things are not racially motivated.
http://exemployee.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/beat-whitey-night-not-motivated-by-race/
…or so states Democratic State Representative Ako Abdul-Samad of Des Moines, Iowa. He apparently ”….doesn’t have enough information to decide if the fights were racially motivated.”
safetyhit, you seem to be concluding that blacks behave the same way whether they're in Africa, America, or anywhere else in the world in large numbers.
Why do you think they behave the same way?
1. DNA
2. Culture.
It can't be culture if the status quo is the same in multiple but different countries. So that leaves us with DNA.
So this thread is now....
R_ _ _ ST
the letter's RSTLNE are already given.
Army Chief
12-17-10, 17:39
Gentlemen, I understand the frustrations, and certainly have some opinions of my own about the factors that likely weigh into some of this, but I'm concerned that we've nowhere to go with this thread but down.
Some valid questions have been asked, but does anyone here really believe that we're going to find the answers? We may be able to glean a few insights along the way, but it seems more likely that our individual frames of reference are going to keep this on a predictable trajectory towards ... well, someplace that we really don't want to go.
I'm not pulling the plug here, but please keep this on-azimuth, free of inflammatory rhetoric, and grounded in as much objective fact as possible. If this turns the corner into something demeaning or inciteful, it will die a quick -- and necessary -- death.
Thanks,
AC
Some valid questions have been asked, but does anyone here really believe that we're going to find the answers?
Well that's the thing, you see maybe as a collective we can indeed establish an answer. One that helps us understand our complicated circumstance as individuals and as a nation.
But could we actually accomplish anything as a result of our enlightenment? Likely not here at humble M4C, but I have a feeling that many a national if not worldwide circumstance has changed over the years as a result of many little consecutive discussions just such as this one.
A small side note: I just returned home from taking my son to his mom's about 30 min from me. While most of the drive is through nice and often scenic areas, there is one small part of it that takes us through a somewhat depressed area of a town I know very well.
As we were waiting at a light to cross a busy intersection, we saw a black woman and a small boy about my son's age waiting to cross the roadway. Since there are only a few homes anywhere near that particular spot, I figured they must have been walking from a nearby train station, but to where I had no idea. It is very cold and windy here today.
I then saw the boy point to a gas station on the corner after they crossed the 4 lane roadway as if begging his mom to go inside for something to eat or drink. She prodded him on and they walked into the distance as our light went green, which got both my son and I's attention.
Though I was already 20 minutes late, I did a U-turn first chance I could and we looked all over for them trying to see if they needed a ride. Even my 7 year old knew they were in a less than ideal situation. I swear I have no idea how we lost them, but I am so sorry we did.
Please don't take this as touting myself, but that would probably be about the 100th time I have done such a thing in my life. Try not to misconstrue my words nor my motive. I don't dislike anyone unless they deserve to be disliked.
I/we are acknowledging a difficult and awkward truth. An unfortunate aspect of our otherwise mostly positive lives. Let's keep things in perspective if possible and show, even here, that this can be dealt with sensibly among the populace.
It can't be culture if the status quo is the same in multiple but different countries. So that leaves us with DNA.
So this thread is now....
R_ _ _ ST
the letter's RSTLNE are already given.
Your declaration that it "can't be culture" doesn't make it so. You can have two distinct failed cultures. In this case what is often referred to as the "black community" where there is an expectation of crime and violence and where education is deemed "white" and ignorance embraced. A culture where a person recently released from prison commands more respect from peers than a college graduate.
Thank god I don't wake up every day concerned about my compliance with the rules of the "white community."
And is is ALSO race, for example the "black community" can be incredibly racist. In fact every time you define a group by race, you are engaging in racism. The NAACP is just as racially defined in it's purpose and goals as the KKK. They are separated by nothing more than the belief that there is such a thing as benign racism.
As for DNA, we all have very similar DNA and mitochondria takes most of us back to Africa. And obviously guys like Neil Tyson haven't been taken over by their genetics and killed members from other tribes any more than any other civilized person.
The distinction is people such as Tyson (and millions of other normal people) don't feel the need to define themselves by race and adhere to the rules of a race based community. Unfortunately many do, including people of all races. And sadly ignorance, hatred and violence are equal opportunity employers.
Perhaps if we stopped finding other forms of racism acceptable (we seem to only decry white racism) and got rid of all the related legislation such as affirmative action, hate crimes and other "defined by race" laws and regulations and attempted true equality where everyone has the same opportunities with no preferential treatment we might be able to get past some of the stupidity.
Suwannee Tim
12-17-10, 19:25
I watched the video, I have seen a lot worse. This is not about race it is about culture. The so-called "urban" culture is violent and irresponsible. In my old neighborhood, in the last three years, in a 1/4 mile square, 1/16 of a square mile, 17 people have been murdered, all black, all the murders that have been identified are black. In the 20 years I lived there was one murder and it was so shocking people talked about it for a decade. Rich Republicans are not to blame, nor are bigots to blame nor are white people to blame. The black criminals are to blame along with a black community that tolerates crime and protects criminals.
MarshallDodge
12-17-10, 20:06
I believe it is a cultural issue as well and am having a hard time buying the DNA thing. My experience with people has show that there are good and bad of all colors but they way they act is a good indication of their upbringing. I went to high school with quite a few black kids and teachers. Most of the black teachers I had were good role models that I still look up to today. Must have gotten that "special" strain of DNA. :sarcastic:
Most of my ancestors came between 1910-1920, nuff said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFCK9ln2BiM
I believe it is a cultural issue as well and am having a hard time buying the DNA thing. My experience with people has show that there are good and bad of all colors but they way they act is a good indication of their upbringing. I went to high school with quite a few black kids and teachers. Most of the black teachers I had were good role models that I still look up to today. Must have gotten that "special" strain of DNA. :sarcastic:
Yep. My team leader and platoon sgt were both black and great examples of what it is to be a real man and lead by example and have been 2 of the greatest influences in my life. There's good and bad in all races. But to blame somebody else for your actions....I won't stand for it. You're poor? blame your parents, not me because of my skin color.
Belmont31R
12-17-10, 22:19
Yep. My team leader and platoon sgt were both black and great examples of what it is to be a real man and lead by example and have been 2 of the greatest influences in my life. There's good and bad in all races. But to blame somebody else for your actions....I won't stand for it. You're poor? blame your parents, not me because of my skin color.
I knew some great black people in my units in the Army but most of them were jackasses who constantly got in trouble. Actually both of the roomates were black. The 1st guy was an "uncle tom" who was a pretty straight guy, rarely drank, dressed like a white guy, ect. My 2nd one was part of the ghetto crew within our company, got busted for stealing from the PX, assaulted a German, punched a hole in the wall, ect.
My team chief was also black, and another uncle tom. My platoon sergeant was black, and a great guy who was one of the best leaders I ever served under.
However those 3 good guys were the exception rather than the norm. Most of the black guys in my unit behaved the same or worse than my 2nd room mate.
Im not going to go so far as to say its DNA but theres definately an attraction to the ghetto thug routine where even cats in the military think they can get away with theft, getting in fights, and generally acting like idiots. They caused all kinds of issues in the barracks and were just a PITA.
My platoon sergeant had a talk with all of us but obviously directed at a certain crew. Said he went back home once since he joined the Army, and years after he had been in. All his old friends were standing on the corners with nothing to their name but maybe a rep as a drug dealer, pimp, and going nowhere fast.
I do think its interesting there isn't a single 1st world majority black nation on Earth, though, and Ive always wondered what Africa would be like if no one from another continent ever steeped foot there. I really think there wouldn't be a single road, people would still be running around in loin cloths, no electricity, and basically just the same as it was 500 years ago. Oh and there would be slavery just like there still is today in some parts.
And for those with white guilt I am not racist. I still consider a few of the guys I met in the mil as good friends, and never had an issue with any of the black people (two) in my COC or thought anything less of them. I just don't think race and racial issues should be some dark place a blue eye blonde haired guy like me is not allowed to talk about. Its obviously still an issue in society, and throwing out the racist card doesn't do anyone any good.
I believe it is a cultural issue as well and am having a hard time buying the DNA thing. My experience with people has show that there are good and bad of all colors but they way they act is a good indication of their upbringing. I went to high school with quite a few black kids and teachers. Most of the black teachers I had were good role models that I still look up to today. Must have gotten that "special" strain of DNA. :sarcastic:
DNA probably does play a very small role. For example if you grabbed a tribesman from sub Saharan Africa whose family lineage has lived off the land for generations he might not be "as adapted" to civilization as a person who has lived in this country for generations. Conversely a typical urbanite isn't going to be as specially adapted to the lions and tigers environment of Africa.
And specialized adaptations are passed down through DNA. But nobody should use that as either a fault or a crutch to explain why crips n bloods do bad things. Those people are perfectly capable, from a DNA standpoint, of being civilized, productive people. They have simply chosen to dedicate themselves to a culture of violence and hatred. After all...it's better than working for "the man"...or so they believe.
The 1st guy was an "uncle tom"
I know this is a term used by both white and black and I understand the innocent context you are using it in, but man do I wish we could do away with it and replace it with "He was a well spoken, overall nice guy..."
My observation from various crime statistics - and these are rough generalizations so please don't get uptight if the math is not perfect:
Asian crime rate is 0.5x white crime rate.
Hispanic crime rate is 2x white crime rate.
Black crime rate is 4x white crime rate.
I am not saying that everyone is doomed because of their DNA, but DNA does provide certain proclivities. And culture pushes things too. Of course everyone can point to a few people of any race that are good or bad, depending on what they want to demonstrate. But ask yourself what the trend is in the general population of that group.
I will leave I.Q. alone for the time being.
This type of behavior is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Race aside, I believe that these people need to be dealt with swiftly and harshly.
Do some quick research and you'll find that the crime rate amongst "well off/middle class" Blacks mirrors that of "well off/middle class" Whites. So my point is to not get so jaded that you place the blame on color/culture instead of the larger factor which is socio-economics.
I concur with your conclusions. The only people that I knew who committed crimes did so because they were bored. We rarely had fights and group violence was unheard of when I was a teen.
Socio-economics is a hard thing to escape. When everyone that you know is poor and behaves a certain way the next generation falls in line with the example that is set for them. Your neighborhood defines your world view. When you grow up in the hood and never see what life is like else where you don't know what you are missing.
Imagine living in a community where Oly and DPMS are King. Everyone you know swears by these rifles. So you would be led to believe that nothing else exists but Oly and DPMS. So if you never leave your community you don't know any better. These people are stuck in a rut that is difficult to get out of.
There has to be a way to give our poor undereducated population some hope. There has to be a way to reestablish the nuclear family and fatherhood. There has to be a way to foster the puritan work ethic that made our country strong. There has to be a way to teach proper behavior towards others in our society. All of these things must accomplished while maintaining the basic principles of liberty.
Socio-economics is a hard thing to escape. When everyone that you know is poor and behaves a certain way the next generation falls in line with the example that is set for them. Your neighborhood defines your world view. When you grow up in the hood and never see what life is like else where you don't know what you are missing.
.
Growing up, I lived in 4 different run down neighborhoods, 1 ghetto, 1 trailer park and 1 suburb. As much as it sucked moving I've been exposed to all socio-economic "cultures", a good majority tend to end up where their parents settled. Ironically the populations in the trailer park and the ghetto have the most in common but dislike the other, the way it always was. They are also pretty polar when it comes to politics, one voting hardcore demorat and the other voting republowhard. The demorats "wanna take take away yer guns" and the republowhards "wanna take away yo welfare."
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-18-10, 09:44
I don't believe this is a race issue, but more of a culture/sub-culture issue. This attack didnt seem to stem from racial hatred but rather young kids who were raised to believe that work is not necessary, and who were also raised in a culture that glorifies those that take rather than those that earn. I have met many fine people of all colors who didnt stoop to their stereotype, but Ive met many more who have acted exactly as society would have them to. There is no breaking this cycle with young inner city youth as most of them are all garbage, no matter the color.
Littlelebowski
12-18-10, 10:06
I don't believe this is a race issue, but more of a culture/sub-culture issue. This attack didnt seem to stem from racial hatred but rather young kids who were raised to believe that work is not necessary, and who were also raised in a culture that glorifies those that take rather than those that earn. I have met many fine people of all colors who didnt stoop to their stereotype, but Ive met many more who have acted exactly as society would have them to. There is no breaking this cycle with young inner city youth as most of them are all garbage, no matter the color.
Agreed with my fellow Marine. However, I think the point that many people (including myself) are making in this thread is that were the races reversed in this incident, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be trumpeting "hate crime" throughout the media and demanding money.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-18-10, 10:14
Agreed with my fellow Marine. However, I think the point that many people (including myself) are making in this thread is that were the races reversed in this incident, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be trumpeting "hate crime" throughout the media and demanding money.
Oh I wholeheartedly agree with you. They are the biggest racists in this country and have done more to divide than unite.
I won't get into the DNA and race/cultural thing as it's not too far off from what's been said thus far but I will say I wouldn't have stood there and let this shit happen. That guy should've been knocking the shit out of those broads, kicking in teeth and stomping heads. If that were my pregnant wife it'd be on the news that 1 white guy kicked the ever living shit out of 5 black broads on a bus, period.
I don't care if it's man, woman or child if you attack one of the people I care about and love there is nothing stopping me from exacting my toll on that person. I care less what color or if they have a vagina. You want to act like a man be prepared to be treated like one.
I won't get into the DNA and race/cultural thing as it's not too far off from what's been said thus far but I will say I wouldn't have stood there and let this shit happen. That guy should've been knocking the shit out of those broads, kicking in teeth and stomping heads. If that were my pregnant wife it'd be on the news that 1 white guy kicked the ever living shit out of 5 black broads on a bus, period.
I don't care if it's man, woman or child if you attack one of the people I care about and love there is nothing stopping me from exacting my toll on that person. I care less what color or if they have a vagina. You want to act like a man be prepared to be treated like one.
He didn't stand there and let it happen. He was also being beaten and robbed. They even went through his pockets looking for shit to steal.
CarlosDJackal
12-18-10, 12:44
Is it strange that in watching the video the first thought I had was, "How come in a bus full of people, nobody bothered to step in?". :mad:
I'm also surprised just how little the boyfriend actually did or tried to do in that video. If it were my child that girl was carrying, I'd probably be in jail. I can't believe that they only charged these pos with second degree robbery. What about assault and battery?
...I wouldn't have stood there and let this shit happen. That guy should've been knocking the shit out of those broads, kicking in teeth and stomping heads. If that were my pregnant wife it'd be on the news that 1 white guy kicked the ever living shit out of 5 black broads on a bus, period.
Yeah, but remember we are talking Seattle here. Not exactly known for it's tough guys, in fact I believe it has become infected with the same pussification type of illness that struck N. California (except Oakland, of course).
I don't believe this is a race issue, but more of a culture/sub-culture issue. This attack didnt seem to stem from racial hatred but rather young kids who were raised to believe that work is not necessary, and who were also raised in a culture that glorifies those that take rather than those that earn. I have met many fine people of all colors who didnt stoop to their stereotype, but Ive met many more who have acted exactly as society would have them to. There is no breaking this cycle with young inner city youth as most of them are all garbage, no matter the color.
Exactly. And I've seen people (for lack of a better term) from all races wholeheartedly embrace that reprehensible subculture.
As another example of what we are talking about, I know a guy who is originally from Saudi Arabia who is a serious Buddhist. Despite being from a country full of people I would normally despise, he is one of the nicest people I know.
Sadly the ratio of people adopting a more benevolent culture vs. those adopting a completely reprehensible culture is horribly out of balance. Or maybe we simply tolerate them too much and have let it get out of hand.
lethal dose
12-18-10, 12:52
I don't think so... doing some "research" about 1/2-2/3rds of people in jail are black. Only 10-15% white. Thats from the US census...
Yes. Almost 90% of all inmates are minority races. I find this to be sad and I feel for those of a minority race who are trying to make something of themselves. When it comes to crime, the minority is the majority. It's really too bad.
He didn't stand there and let it happen. He was also being beaten and robbed. They even went through his pockets looking for shit to steal.
Maybe I should rephrase my initial assertion. It didn't appear to me that he did as much as he could of in that situation. This is probably due to cultural/societal pressures that tell you not to hit women. He has to live with his feelings and emotions after the incident not me. I for one would want to know that I did everything in my power to prevent my wife/girlfriend and future child from being harmed in anyway by a pack of rabid bitches that needed to be put down.
Sorry, I get disgusted by seeing packs of animals attack innocent people.
Is it strange that in watching the video the first thought I had was, "How come in a bus full of people, nobody bothered to step in?". :mad:
I'm also surprised just how little the boyfriend actually did or tried to do in that video. If it were my child that girl was carrying, I'd probably be in jail. I can't believe that they only charged these pos with second degree robbery. What about assault and battery?
Same train of thought as myself.
Yes. Almost 90% of all inmates are minority races. I find this to be sad and I feel for those of a minority race who are trying to make something of themselves. When it comes to crime, the minority is the majority. It's really too bad.
Because the minority always have to start out in the ghettos of this country. The poverty WILL create a horrible subculture. That's how it has always been, and forever will be.
Poverty seems to be a recurring factor, whether it's in black, mexican, arab, or even white neighborhoods across the world.
Maybe I should rephrase my initial assertion. It didn't appear to me that he did as much as he could of in that situation. This is probably due to cultural/societal pressures that tell you not to hit women. He has to live with his feelings and emotions after the incident not me. I for one would want to know that I did everything in my power to prevent my wife/girlfriend and future child from being harmed in anyway by a pack of rabid bitches that needed to be put down.
Sorry, I get disgusted by seeing packs of animals attack innocent people.
Not that I disagree with your position. But he was probably raised to be "civilized." Sadly that has become a dangerous thing to be when we tolerate so many who aren't.
I too am mystified by the lack of serious charges. To me attacking a pregnant woman like that should justify the use of deadly force. Seattle seems to be more interested in protecting their predators than their citizens.
Because the minority always have to start out in the ghettos of this country. The poverty WILL create a horrible subculture. That's how it has always been, and forever will be.
Poverty seems to be a recurring factor, whether it's in black, mexican, arab, or even white neighborhoods across the world.
Ridiculous. I started out damn near homeless and lived in one of the most ****ed areas of Ft. Lauderdale for 3 years until I saved up enough to get the hell out of there.
It never once occurred to me to start attacking pregnant women for money. And it didn't occur to a lot of the decent people who also happened to be stuck in that shithole neighborhood.
Your post is nothing but an insult to every decent person who doesn't have money and lives in a shit neighborhood.
Btw, I also know a LOT of middle class minorities who decided to become "thugs" because they thought it was cool.
Poverty does not necessarily lead to a subculture prone to violence and crime. The poorest parts of Appalachia were some of the safest and had a culture of honesty and integrity. There were, of course, some that were not on the up and up, but the majority were. What about the ghettos set up by the Nazis where the Jews still managed to live with a moral compass? How about the poorest areas of China where most live with a strict moral code?
Not that I disagree with your position. But he was probably raised to be "civilized." Sadly that has become a dangerous thing to be when we tolerate so many who aren't.
Not arguing, just clarifying. I was raised in a similar fashion. Respect women, hold the door open for them, don't hit them and that type of thing. I'm kind of old fashioned in that way and it's really worked out in my favor of the years. ;) My problem is after working in too many bars and being in the military when I was younger I see how crazy some of them can be and at their base level they're no different than men, we're all human.
From my perspective I don't differentiate between the sexes when that person is attacking me or someone else. At that point in time they are a threat and will be dealt with as such, regardless of the fact that they have an innie or an outie. They may say they want to be equal but that never applies when they want to punch a man or when the check hits the table after dinner.
lethal dose
12-18-10, 13:45
Because the minority always have to start out in the ghettos of this country. The poverty WILL create a horrible subculture. That's how it has always been, and forever will be.
Poverty seems to be a recurring factor, whether it's in black, mexican, arab, or even white neighborhoods across the world.
While I believe you are a product of your environment to an extent, I have to agree with styer... I don't believe poverty is the underlying factor or the cause of crime. If anything, I believe it to be the opposite. I, for one, think a lot of it has to do with poor parenting and being taught to make poor choices. Everyone is born with a certain set of morals... how we choose to apply them is up to us. I do believe in negative influence, but I don't feel that poverty itself has much, if any, influence on crime.
I know this is a term used by both white and black and I understand the innocent context you are using it in, but man do I wish we could do away with it and replace it with "He was a well spoken, overall nice guy..."
+1 I've always been annoyed that any black person that was clean cut, educated, well spoken was "acting white" as if white people had a monopoly on being any one of the above. It annoys me even more when people congratulate me for not being an idiot. It seems as if standards for blacks are extremely low from the inside and outside.
That said, most blacks are still extremely angry/hostile/mistrustful towards/to white people in general. It's something that will be perpetuated for at least a couple more generations (although it won't be in my home) but eventually it'll die out and as more blacks/minorities climb the socioeconomic ladder the better off we'll all be but in general "we're" starting off near the bottom an no amount of apologizing on "your" part will heal the wound that was inflicted. Time heals all wounds but IMO as much as I wish it had, enough time hasn't passed. Personally, I'm over it God has a plan and if things weren't how they were my black ass probably wouldn't exist much less be where I am today.
Belmont31R
12-18-10, 13:56
While I believe you are a product of your environment to an extent, I have to agree with styer... I don't believe poverty is the underlying factor or the cause of crime. If anything, I believe it to be the opposite. I, for one, think a lot of it has to do with poor parenting and being taught to make poor choices. Everyone is born with a certain set of morals... how we choose to apply them is up to us. I do believe in negative influence, but I don't feel that poverty itself has much, if any, influence on crime.
There are lots of countries where most of the people are poor, and yet they are not rampant with crime.
Asians and middle easterners have very little patience for common criminals, thieves, ect. Justice is pretty brutal and swift. My dad worked in KSA for years, and the big city next to their project had weekly public punishment sessions up to beheadings when someone committed a crime. Therefor they have very few thieves amongst actual Saudi's. Most of their issues from the TCN's they import for the dirty work.
It all depends on the accepted culture and values of the particular group not how much money they have.
How about the poorest areas of China where most live with a strict moral code?
You mean the same type of people that resort to mob mentality when somebody is caught stealing, and kill them in the street?
Not civilized.
Being poor brings the rage out of people. Other factors like cultural tendencies are magnified due to poverty.
And we can't do this stupid, "I was born here and I didn't do that" type of crap. That's one example amongst millions.
So DNA ain't it, culture plays a part, and poverty is a common factor. What else is left?
lethal dose
12-18-10, 15:58
There are lots of countries where most of the people are poor, and yet they are not rampant with crime.
Asians and middle easterners have very little patience for common criminals, thieves, ect. Justice is pretty brutal and swift. My dad worked in KSA for years, and the big city next to their project had weekly public punishment sessions up to beheadings when someone committed a crime. Therefor they have very few thieves amongst actual Saudi's. Most of their issues from the TCN's they import for the dirty work.
It all depends on the accepted culture and values of the particular group not how much money they have.
I think you pretty much reiterated what I said. I agree that poverty plays little role in crime as a whole.
Not arguing, just clarifying. I was raised in a similar fashion. Respect women, hold the door open for them, don't hit them and that type of thing. I'm kind of old fashioned in that way and it's really worked out in my favor of the years. ;) My problem is after working in too many bars and being in the military when I was younger I see how crazy some of them can be and at their base level they're no different than men, we're all human.
From my perspective I don't differentiate between the sexes when that person is attacking me or someone else. At that point in time they are a threat and will be dealt with as such, regardless of the fact that they have an innie or an outie. They may say they want to be equal but that never applies when they want to punch a man or when the check hits the table after dinner.
To clarify, by "civilized" I meant "lacking a capacity to adequately defend oneself." He was probably brought up being taught that fighting and violence are always wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.
You mean the same type of people that resort to mob mentality when somebody is caught stealing, and kill them in the street?
Not civilized.
Being poor brings the rage out of people. Other factors like cultural tendencies are magnified due to poverty.
And we can't do this stupid, "I was born here and I didn't do that" type of crap. That's one example amongst millions.
So DNA ain't it, culture plays a part, and poverty is a common factor. What else is left?
Again, you saying something "is" doesn't make it "so."
Poverty does NOT the "common factor" any more than race is the common factor.
And I'm not just using my experience, but the hundreds of people who also lived in that neighborhood, went to church, didn't commit crimes and wished they lived someplace better.
It is mostly culture, and it's influence on the environment (and that is where you are close with your poverty assertion). Again, I've seen rich kids who wanted to live the "thug life" just as much as any poor kid.
I used to teach martial arts at PALs in South Florida to some of the most "at risk" kids you've ever seen. The vast majority were so poor we taught them for free. I did this for years so I think I understand a little about the subject of what makes kids go bad in the ghetto.
I've seen kids go bad, and I've seen kids go good. And it wasn't money or lack of it, that made the distinction. Your presumption that poverty causes crime insults everyone who was broke ass poor and turned out good, and it gives a pass to everyone who decided to be a piece of shit.
Now if you ask them, they will tell you it was because they were poor. But that is nothing more than an excuse and not owning up to the fact that they are a violent piece of shit because that is the path they chose. Crappy or non existent parenting, lack of education or desire to be educated and bad influences all play their part. But while poverty makes life hard, it is rarely the deciding factor.
And this is why criminals with money, usually remain criminals.
Suwannee Tim
12-18-10, 16:49
Poverty and racism, the universal excuses. No matter the pathology in the community, poverty and racism are the causes or the excuses. Crime, drug and alcohol abuse, teen pregnancy, dependence, all someone else's fault. The first step towards solving a problem is the recognition that it is within your power to solve it. If someone's 'plight' is, in their mind, a condition imposed on them rather than a consequence of their actions, they will never, NEVER solve their problems. Let me introduce the concept of "the soft racism of low expectations" which describes the paternal and condescending attitude that blacks are less capable of helping themselves than others and therefore need special help and special consideration. I think it is a toxic and destructive lie.
This one blows up buildings...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
This one blows up individuals...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski
This guy solved the African American problem, Asians too! By eating them!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer
This American General betrayed his country!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold
So, down with all White's?! :rolleyes:
The bigotry here, is off the hook...
QuietShootr
12-18-10, 16:58
This one blows up buildings...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
This one blows up individuals...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski
This guy solved the African American problem, Asians too! By eating them!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer
This American General betrayed his country!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold
So, down with all White's?! :rolleyes:
The bigotry here, is off the hook...
OK. STOP. Saying that blacks commit more crimes per capita than whites (or any other minority in the US, for that matter) is racist, when it's a FACT?
Seriously? Or are you just offended because someone pointed out (again) the emperor's complete lack of clothing?
Belmont31R
12-18-10, 17:03
This one blows up buildings...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
This one blows up individuals...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Kaczynski
This guy solved the African American problem, Asians too! By eating them!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer
This American General betrayed his country!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedict_Arnold
So, down with all White's?! :rolleyes:
The bigotry here, is off the hook...
Instead of vague accusations why don't you point out the bigotry with specifics?
What do you have to say about the crime statistics?
I'm just calling a "spade a spade".
To argue a point here would be, ridiculous. The momentum has taken on a life of it's own.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmit_Till
Who killed and mutilatied this kid? Racism was not a motivation?
Before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emmett_Till.jpg
After:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emmit_Till_body.jpg
How many "Whites" killed him? Where is the outrage? :sad:
Mace
Belmont31R
12-18-10, 17:23
I'm just calling a "spade a spade".
To argue a point here would be, ridiculous. The momentum has taken on a life of it's own.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmit_Till
Who killed and mutilatied this kid? Racism was not a motivation?
Before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emmett_Till.jpg
After:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emmit_Till_body.jpg
How many "Whites" killed him? Where is the outrage? :sad:
Mace
We're supposed to be outraged over something that happened 65 years ago?
Ill remember to be outraged at the next Japanese person I see because we fought a world war against them which resulted in tens of thousands of dead on our side. Also those Germans, Vietnamese, every Arab or Pashtun, every Korean, ect.
How about some facts instead of sob stories and singular examples?
QuietShootr
12-18-10, 17:27
I'm just calling a "spade a spade".
To argue a point here would be, ridiculous. The momentum has taken on a life of it's own.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmit_Till
Who killed and mutilatied this kid? Racism was not a motivation?
Before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emmett_Till.jpg
After:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emmit_Till_body.jpg
How many "Whites" killed him? Where is the outrage? :sad:
Mace
So....because there is/was racism on the part of whites (white and black are not capitalized, by the way.) that somehow renders unimportant that blacks are the highest per capita criminal offenders?
I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. White people are racist, so it's acceptable/understandable for blacks to be criminals?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
12-18-10, 17:40
Poverty and racism, the universal excuses. No matter the pathology in the community, poverty and racism are the causes or the excuses. Crime, drug and alcohol abuse, teen pregnancy, dependence, all someone else's fault. The first step towards solving a problem is the recognition that it is within your power to solve it. If someone's 'plight' is, in their mind, a condition imposed on them rather than a consequence of their actions, they will never, NEVER solve their problems. Let me introduce the concept of "the soft racism of low expectations" which describes the paternal and condescending attitude that blacks are less capable of helping themselves than others and therefore need special help and special consideration. I think it is a toxic and destructive lie.
Well said Tim.
The bigotry here, is off the hook...
No it isn't, Mace. The acknowledgment of certain facts may make you uncomfortable, but there is absolutely no racism on display here.
Personally I don't care if acknowledging these facts makes anyone uncomfortable anymore. I am uncomfortable taking my son on a train ride into Philly now specifically because of black teens. Where is your compassion for me? What the fu*k have I done to anyone to feel afraid to ride the train with my son because of such soulless animals?
The problem is real and needs to be both discussed and dealt with. Some of us are simply tired of all the bullshit violence as well as the double standard.
Army Chief
12-18-10, 17:50
Well said Tim.
Agreed, and in the interest of forestalling the prophesied decline of the thread at large, I am going to ask for your collective support in calling this chapter of the discussion complete. If it hasn't been said in three pages, it probably isn't fit for airing.
Thanks,
AC
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