View Full Version : .30 AP effective from an AAC 300 BLK?
I have started on a 300 BLACKOUT rifle - in fact, I have everything gathered but the tax stamp and barrel... I am quite excited about this cartridge for a fun toy. But is it safe to assume if I were to load up some of the old 165gr M-2 projectiles that I would be disappointed in their performance?
Short version of the question is, what is the minimum velocity for which these bullets were designed to be effective, and can the 300BLK reach the needed speed?
Effective for what?
At slower speeds they will be less of an AP than when launched from a 30-06.
Depends on what you are trying to get through.
Sometimes velocity is bad.
Thomas M-4
12-18-10, 20:01
Ap is dependent on velocity going to a sub-sonic will decrease its performance.
Common sense would tell me that AP bullets are dependent on some amount of speed to function as designed......I am guessing from the responses that there is no table or rule of thumb that would demonstrate the loss of performance at specific fps against specific materials? Surely this has been researched at length by some entity? Or no....
Well, do up a ballistics table for 30.06 with that bullet weight, then research some data on what M2 AP will penetrate at various distances. Then...correlate the distance to the ballistics table to get the impact velocity, that will tell you what the 300BK can do based on its velocity.
I have some of those projectiles that I load in my 300WM at 3200 fps!
Seth B,
When is more velocity bad for a true AP projectile?
I always thought AP + more velocity = more gooder
There is a reason why APDSFS rounds from the main gun on an M1 are going like 6000+ fps.
Ap is dependent on velocity going to a sub-sonic will decrease its performance.
A 165gr bullet is not limited to subsonic in 300 BLK but it probably won't have enough velocity to make it very AP.
Seth B,
When is more velocity bad for a true AP projectile?
Depends on which projectile you are talking about. But a lot of the steel core stuff will fragment if you drive it fast enough.
But you already knew that.
Thomas M-4
12-20-10, 14:52
A 165gr bullet is not limited to subsonic in 300 BLK but it probably won't have enough velocity to make it very AP.
Very true Todd.
I see 300 BLK I think sub-sonic. The 165 can be supersonic out of the 300 BLK.
Maybe a Remington Accelerator sabot with a 5.56mm AP projectile.
I'd go for a 90-100 gr tungsten core AP projectile, similar to M993/M995, skip the sabot...
As long as an AP round is not driven beyond its max designed speed threshold, then more velocity is better.
Robb Jensen
12-22-10, 22:35
I always thought AP + more velocity = more gooder
There is a reason why APDSFS rounds from the main gun on an M1 are going like 6000+ fps.
IIRC there is no gunpowder than burns anywhere near 6000fps thus no projectile can go that fast using gunpowder...just a thought.
With the sabot you could also skip the tungsten core jacketed bullet and just make a solid tungsten projectile.
I'd go for a 90-100 gr tungsten core AP projectile, similar to M993/M995, skip the sabot...
As long as an AP round is not driven beyond its max designed speed threshold, then more velocity is better.
As far as I can tell, these will not be available for sale any time soon, if ever, will they?
IIRC there is no gunpowder than burns anywhere near 6000fps thus no projectile can go that fast using gunpowder...just a thought.
That should have been a 5 on that, as in 5000, I am a poor typist. Some of the 120mm smooth bore rounds are in fact pushing the 5000 fps territory.
As far as I can tell, these will not be available for sale any time soon, if ever, will they?
They would have to be made. If the military wants it it could happen.
"IRC there is no gunpowder than burns anywhere near 6000fps thus no projectile can go that fast using gunpowder...just a thought."
While difficult, it is not impossible.
Back in the late 1980's, Dr. Fackler conducted a series of very high velocity experiments using 6 mm spheres and 5.56 mm rods and M193 shaped projectiles fired at velocities up to 6723 fps.
Two special test rifles were used for these experiments: a .50 BMG action fitted with a .30 caliber barrel using sabots to launch both the 6 mm and 5.56 mm projectiles using up to 14.25 gm of Winchester-Western Type 748 ball powder, as well as a .300 H&H magnum action using a 5.56 mm barrel, with the case containing up to 3.6 g of Hercules 2400 powder.
See: Fackler ML, Bellamy RF, Malinowski JA: "Reconsideration of the Wounding Mechanism of Very High Velocity Projedtiles--Importance of Projectile Shape". Journal of Trauma. 28(1 Suppl.):S63-S67; January 1988.
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Seth B,
When is more velocity bad for a true AP projectile?
I concur. I forget the load now ( it's been years) but I worked up to max for a .300 Weatherby using said projectile and it cut through 3/4" steel like butter.
Looks like a 6mm-ish projectile.
Interesting.
Stormrider
04-14-11, 22:50
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7906/mg0888ed.jpg
That's a cool looking cartridge.
I've never had any luck with Sabots in my rifles. The bullets go fast but are not accurate. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with them or my guns just don't like them.
are these saboted rounds safe to use in a semi automatic rifle? The AR tends to ding the bullet off the feed ramp to get it loaded into the chamber, will the sabot have enough "grip" against the case to prevent setback?
Rsilvers, what are the specs on that cartridge? .300 BLK, .30 Sabot and...?
IMHO, regarding the M995, since there is basically no new sales of .mil components since around 1989(?) the likelyhood of seeing surplus M995/M993 pulls is fairly low. Would love it if it were otherwise (be great to do tests on some of my designs with WC core AP), but such is life.
Heck, even the .30 M2 black tip AP projos are pretty much unobtanium these days. A shame, they were very accurate in handloads...
D-R
No specs have been released.
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