View Full Version : What countries should the US NOT ALLOW ANY immigration from?
It seems that most of our "home grown" terrorism actually grows from fairly recent immigration from various muslim countries. Therefore I would propose a permanent ban on both immigration and all visas except for limited diplomatic and very limited business visa from a master list of bad boy countries. Perhaps we can start the list here:
Iran
Iraq
Syria
Lebanon
Palestinian Territories (although not a country)
Yemen
Iran
Somalia
Kenya (sorry to Big O's grandma)
etc.
Any country that is openly hostile to us (most on your list).
And we should suspend ALL immigration from any country that currently is over burdening us with illegals until that problem is resolved.
What about the non-muslims in those countries on your list, that are being targeted by muslim violence?
That's the reason I don't like a permanent ban.
Maybe you should ask a Hmong what he thinks.?.?.?
What about the non-muslims in those countries on your list, that are being targeted by muslim violence?
That's the reason I don't like a permanent ban.
What about them?
It's not that I'm opposed to peaceful immigrants who are refugees from oppressive forces such as Islam (generally they make wonderful Americans who know first hand the evils of the world) but I don't like the idea that we are somehow obligated to take in anyone or rescue every person who suffers the hardship of some shithole country.
If it were me personally, I'd mostly take those who suffer under enemy ideologies and stop taking third world trash who show up looking for a free ride. Those who are escaping oppressive regimes tend to make wonderful Americans who value our freedoms and are interested in protecting them.
In fact I wish we could get an exchange program going were we take Americans who want communism / socialism and we send them to China and Cuba in exchange for their dissidents who would rather be free. And we can take all the Muslims in this country who want Sharia law and exchange them for non Muslims in the Middle East who would rather be free.
lethal dose
12-20-10, 23:32
Do I see a 2012 steyrAUG/500grains card? ;)
Lebanon, are you guys F'N serious? Lebanon might have some ****ed up parts and wackos, but than they have places like Beirut :D
People from any country should be allowed to immigrate to this country, if my ancestors had it their way you dirty Irish pricks would never have made it past my island... ;)
Bolt_Overide
12-21-10, 02:23
Any country openly beligerant to the US, or known to have a signifigant terrorist problem within their borders.
Suwannee Tim
12-21-10, 04:25
It seems that most of our "home grown" terrorism actually grows from fairly recent immigration from various muslim countries. Therefore I would propose a permanent ban on both immigration and all visas except for limited diplomatic and very limited business visa from a master list of bad boy countries. Perhaps we can start the list here:
Iran
Iraq
Syria
Lebanon
Palestinian Territories (although not a country)
Yemen
Iran
Somalia
Kenya (sorry to Big O's grandma)
etc.
I love it 500! Ban Iran twice! Seriously, in an age of terrorism, WMD and third world ballistic missiles our graduate schools of chemistry, biology, engineering and physics are overflowing with Araba, Persians and other Muslims. Amazing.
Business_Casual
12-21-10, 06:15
I'm skeptical that there is any point to it - Ted Kennedy pushed through new rules on which countries could come here, with a bias against northern Europe.
B_C
montanadave
12-21-10, 06:38
"All right... we'll give some land to the niggers and the chinks. But we don't want the Irish!" Mr. Olson Johnson in Blazing Saddles
What's good for Rock Ridge is good for America! :sarcastic:
Army Chief
12-21-10, 07:40
<opus>
There are far too many generalizations in play here for this to rate consideration as a serious discussion; that said, the whole problem with this issue is that we've got very little else to go on -- and it isn't a localized problem. The debate doesn't seem to fare any better in academia, out on Main Street, or in any of our political circles.
One could advance the argument that those looking to leave one of these "axis" countries may be doing it precisely because of their dissatisfaction or disillusionment with the status quo -- or perhaps even because they are genuinely responding to the American promise of liberty and justice for all. (That is probably better defined as freedom, hope and prosperity, but you get the idea.) These kinds of people tend to strengthen our national fabric, live productive lives and disappear into mainstream America within a generation or two. They are the modern manifestation of the last century's Ellis Island family.
For the first 200 years of our history, those who came to this country generaly wanted nothing more than to assimilate. They learned the language, Anglicized their names, and worked hard to blend-in and live the American Dream. The landscape may look a bit different today because of our national preoccupation with pluralism and political correctness, but these kinds of would-be Americans are still out there. I've served with many soldiers whose parents are first-generation Americans who encouraged their children to serve in the military as a means of giving something back to the country. These are the salt-of-the-earth types that make all of us want to be better citizens, no matter where they happen to be from originally.
The problem, of course, is that for every would-be immigrant seeking to start a new life according to the American ideal, there are plenty who have no real intention of integrating into our society the way that the Scots, Irishmen, Italians, Swedes and Germans did in the 19th century. In some cases, they may not seem to readily possess that ability. Adherents of Islam present a big target here, both because they tend to represent diverse people groups and ethnicities, and also because they are united by a common faith that so often seems at odds with core American values. We can be as closed-minded and intolerant as we wish to be, of course, but they are coming nonetheless. Is this a bad thing? Is there really is a way to change any of it? Should we ban immigration? Should we selectively accept only those with whom we readily identify? Should the numbers be limited from certain parts of the world? These are all fundamentally wrong -- even anti-American -- premises, and yet we find ourselves increasingly compelled to call for action. Why is that?
We aren't going to solve the problem here, but I do think we need to look beyond our shores a bit. Most prosperous western nations are dealing with the very same questions. England, France, Germany ... they are all in much the same circumstance, and we, like they, are finding out that there are no easy answers. It goes back to culture to some degree. Western civilization set the conditions for the relative prosperity and advancement of these nations, and that has quite naturally attracted waves of people from other parts of the world. Therein lies the rub. How many Moroccans can France assimilate before France becomes something else entirely? How many Turks can Germany accomodate before it no longer means the same thing to say that this or that is German?
There are cultural and demographic changes afoot throughout the western world, and the one thing we seem to have in common is that we all seem unable or unwilling to stop them. Should we even try? I sometimes wonder if it isn't "mighty white" of us to really chafe at such things. On the other hand, if it was western culture and the Judeo-Christian ethic that built these nations, how much can these things be be watered-down before western nations begin to look and function more like the ones from which their huddled masses came? (Edit: I'm speaking here of the face of the country, and not of the faces of the individuals that make up that country.) You've got me there. I really don't know, but neither am I completely comfortable admitting that I, like most of you, might sometimes prefer the status quo -- or some well-intentioned regression -- to this particular form of progess.
What we're left with is the startling truth that there are so many cultural, ethnic, religious and racial connections in play here that it is incredibly difficult to define the problem, and even more difficult to deal with it graciously. That's not to say that it isn't worth asking the questions, but it seems highly unlikely that we're going to find any useful answers; especially on a firearms board where we already find ourselves in a sub-culture that is somewhat out of step with contemporary culture (though very much in step with our traditional roots). The value, I think, lies in being able to ask the questions and search for common ground as Americans, rather than to advance proposals of one sort or another in hopes that they will resolve our collective woes. The times, they are a changing -- all we can really do is to hope to shape those changes for the greater good.
</opus>
AC
This is really American. I will tell the Marine next to me right now that his family has to go back Lebanon.
PJ
rubberneck
12-21-10, 08:26
Immigration isn't an issue in and of itself. It's who is coming here. I'd be glad to take all the doctors, nurses, computer programmers, engineers, teachers, mathematicians and scientists we can get our hands on. Day laborers not so much. I am less concerned about country of origin than some of you. The odds that a doctor would immigrate only to become a suicide bomber or a spy aren't much greater than having a hostile power corrupt some loser who is already a US citizen. I would however take a really hard look at refusing student visas to students from countries hostile to the US, especially if they wish to study science (physics, chemistry, biology or engineering) or mathematics.
rubberneck
12-21-10, 08:32
This is really American. I will tell the Marine next to me right now that his family has to go back Lebanon.
PJ
Did we accept immigrants from Japan and Germany during the second world war?
montanadave
12-21-10, 08:36
Army Chief: Thanks for an excellent post. I don't fully subscribe to your position, but I appreciate your efforts to illuminate the complexity of the immigration issue. I agree the issue is multi-facted, requiring careful consideration of the motives of both current residents and those seeking to immigrate, and is likely to be refractory to reactionary or ideological solutions.
To paraphrase, the only constant is change and, indeed, "the times, they are a changing"
Army Chief
12-21-10, 08:50
Army Chief: Thanks for an excellent post. I don't fully subscribe to your position, but I appreciate your efforts to illuminate the complexity of the immigration issue. I agree the issue is multi-facted, requiring careful consideration of the motives of both current residents and those seeking to immigrate, and is likely to be refractory to reactionary or ideological solutions.
To paraphrase, the only constant is change and, indeed, "the times, they are a changing"
Brother, I'm not even sure that I have a position; just trying point out that there are deeper themes running here than meet the eye. Locking the doors won't really help; neither will throwing them wide open. This is probably a question for every generation to answer on their own -- I can only hope that ours takes a cautious, but enlightened view that doesn't result in a counterproductive bunker mentality. We need to know who we are as a people, but we also need to provide a path for like-minded souls to join us. The central issues here are ideological, not demographic, but all of this is still easier said than done.
AC
Did we accept immigrants from Japan and Germany during the second world war?
Are we at total war?
I am not saying we should open our borders without screening, but a down right ban, nope not smart.
PJ
Army Chief
12-21-10, 09:08
Are we at total war?
I am not saying we should open our borders without screening, but a down right ban, nope not smart.
PJ
Lest my remarks started this, let me clarify that your fellow Marine is precisely the kind of immigrant story that I wished to portray in a positive light. Under no circumstances was I suggesting that his family should be sent back to their former home; in fact, quite to the contrary.
Not sure that I see the correlation to WWII -- if we're attempting to justify any of those actions -- unless you accept that we are, in fact, at war with Islam. I do not subscribe to that particular point of view, even though I understand that there may be some common idealogical underpinnings at work in certain cases.
Again, tough questions. I have no answers, but I do have an interest in thoughtful consideration of the larger issues in play. The point here is one of shaping change to make us stronger, and not blindly fighting it in the interest of defending whatever turf we think we might have.
AC
Lest my remarks started this, let me clarify that your fellow Marine is precisely the kind of immigrant story that I wished to portray in a positive light. Under no circumstances was I suggesting that his family should be sent back to their former home; in fact, quite to the contrary.
No arguements here.
To me it seems that people make the generalization that all those from an AO are bad and should be banned from coming to the States. However the insight and knowledge we gain from people from these countries is priceless to actually fighting the truely bad people.
Not sure that I see the correlation to WWII -- if we're attempting to justify any of those actions -- unless you accept that we are, in fact, at war with Islam. I do not subscribe to that particular point of view, even though I understand that there may be some common idealogical underpinnings at work in certain cases.
I do not see any correllation between GWOT and WWII and I do not know why it was brought up.
Nor do I believe we are in a fight against Islam.
PJ
rubberneck
12-21-10, 09:22
Not sure that I see the correlation to WWII -- if we're attempting to justify any of those actions -- unless you accept that we are, in fact, at war with Islam. I do not subscribe to that particular point of view, even though I understand that there may be some common idealogical underpinnings at work in certain cases.
IMHO we are at war with radical Islam. I think you can make the case that Lebanon with it's 30 year history of supporting multiple terrorist groups is as close to ground zero for radical Islam as you are going to find.
I think In reality we face two really bad choices. Discriminate against immigrants because they might harbor radicalized view points or turn a blind eye to the fact that there are countries out there where the majority of their citizens that openly support the destruction of our way of life. While Germany isn't a perfect analogy there were plenty of German citizens that hated Hitler and were appalled at what the Nazi's stood for. None of them would have been allowed to immigrate during the height of world war two. Sometimes the baby gets thrown out with the bath water.
It seems that most of our "home grown" terrorism actually grows from fairly recent immigration from various muslim countries. Therefore I would propose a permanent ban on both immigration and all visas except for limited diplomatic and very limited business visa from a master list of bad boy countries. Perhaps we can start the list here:
Iran
Iraq
Syria
Lebanon
Palestinian Territories (although not a country)
Yemen
Iran
Somalia
Kenya (sorry to Big O's grandma)
etc.
Jesus - hate much?
Are we at total war?
Many millions of muslims consider themselves at total war with us. Should we ignore that fact?
I am not saying we should open our borders without screening,
OK.
"Dear Applicant:
You hail from a country that in recent years has produced numerous terrorists attempting to kill Americans. Until your country has a 20 year terror-free record, we cannot accept your application for either an immigrant or non-immigrant visa. On behalf of the United States of America, I encourage you to change your country's government and social mores so that pro-terrorist behavior becomes rarer until the point that it is non-existent.
Yours Truly,
Big Sis"
but a down right ban, nope not smart.
PJ
This is an assertion with no support.
Army Chief
12-21-10, 09:38
To me it seems that people make the generalization that all those from an AO are bad and should be banned from coming to the States.
Agreed, and the real point of my earlier missive was to hopefully point out just how poorly those kinds of generalizations serve us in a discussion such as this one. We are certainly aligned there.
We have to be cautious at times about the semantics surrounding an issue like this, and careful in how we choose to define certain concepts. I dare say that none of us have anything but disdain for extremism and intolerance, especially in the current context of Muslim aggression, but what we're really fighting here is the same old two-headed monster of tyranny and oppression that we've always fought. Sometimes that stems from political causes. Other times, it traces back to economic factors. At present, in current theaters of conflict, it would seem to serve a religious base. To make matters worse, over time, some of these adversaries will end up trading one cause for another so as to continue to provide a pretext for their irrational bloodlust. I cannot always know what motivates such men, but wherever and whenever we find them, I can only hope that they are swiftly escorted from the stage of this life.
AC
I cannot always know what motivates such men, but wherever and whenever we find them, I can only hope that they are swiftly escorted from the stage of this life.
AC
We can be assured of one thing: If the USA continues to allow immigration from the Bad Boy list of countries, then we will continue to see a rising number of terror attacks committed by persons in that immigrant group.
I am willing to throw out the baby with the bath water because the baby is a prospective immigrant, not an American, and a possible future terrorist, based on past trends and REALITY, not based on political correctness (which I could not a shit about).
The alternative is to remain politically correct and watch terrorism within the US committed by persons in such immigrant group rise and a Big Brother government culture will be fostered as "the only way" to combat it.
Many millions of muslims consider themselves at total war with us. Should we ignore that fact?
OK.
"Dear Applicant:
You hail from a country that in recent years has produced numerous terrorists attempting to kill Americans. Until your country has a 20 year terror-free record, we cannot accept your application for either an immigrant or non-immigrant visa. On behalf of the United States of America, I encourage you to change your country's government and social mores so that pro-terrorist behavior becomes rarer until the point that it is non-existent.
Yours Truly,
Big Sis"
This is an assertion with no support.
Do you know what total war is? I do not think we are tracking on the same definition. Nor did I assert we are at total war with Islam because we arent.
We close our borders and become fortress America. What do you think those around the world would view that as? Extremists would view it as a HUGE victory. Why? because all the 20yr olds cant come to America, drink coke, wear blue jeans and get a good paying job. Now they are stuck in a third world shit hole with no hope and a suicide vest is an AWESOME idea. That style of thinking just made more terrorists.
Also on the strategic/operation/tactical level of things, to put it plainly we do not know our enemy. We might think we do, but we dont. Americans as a whole are pretty ignorant to what we are fighting. Who do you think has a solid understanding of what drives the enemy and how to defeat them? People from that area.
But you are absolutley right just locking the gates is an awesome way to kill this threat:confused:.
PJ
We close our borders and become fortress America.
Once again, you are reading your own assumptions into it. Try again.
What do you think those around the world would view that as? Extremists would view it as a HUGE victory. Why? because all the 20yr olds cant come to America, drink coke, wear blue jeans and get a good paying job. Now they are stuck in a third world shit hole with no hope and a suicide vest is an AWESOME idea. That style of thinking just made more terrorists.
It's hard for me to describe how idiotic this paragraph is. What you are saying is that we reduce future terrorism by bringing lots of muslims into the country? :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Muslim-Free.jpg
Once again, you are reading your own assumptions into it. Try again
We create a "country ban list" and prevent people from those countries coming into the States? Am I understanding you?
It's hard for me to describe how idiotic this paragraph is. What you are saying is that we reduce future terrorism by bringing lots of muslims into the country? :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
If they are friendly and productive members of society I could care less what race, ethnicity, religion or country they come from. Also you seem to be dead struck on Muslims as the enemy, why not make it so Muslims from anywhere cannot come to the states if you are worried about that threat.
You do not beat this kind of enemy in this type of war by going internal.
As for the other points I made about the operation/tacitcal/strategic implications of having such knowledge on hand about different AO's, do you have any evidence or ignorant pictures to respond to that?
PJ
Army Chief
12-21-10, 10:54
The issue itself is plenty contentious -- let's please not make any of this personal with careless comments directed at a fellow member and/or his opinions.
Thanks.
AC
"All right... we'll give some land to the niggers and the chinks. But we don't want the Irish!" Mr. Olson Johnson in Blazing Saddles
What's good for Rock Ridge is good for America! :sarcastic:
Thank you for that! Made my day, and really sums up the reality of our history, and the insanity of this thread.
variablebinary
12-22-10, 05:33
Seal the borders and close all immigration for 10 years.
Just because a bunch of crazy Dutch, French, Spanish and Anglo-Saxons decided to cross an ocean and fight with Indians for this continent doesn't entitle everyone everywhere the right to come here for all eternity.
That's a bunch of bullshit the press loves to spread. There is no eternal Ellis island.
Magic_Salad0892
12-22-10, 05:45
Seal the borders and close all immigration for 10 years.
Not a terrible solution, but I think there are other ways to go about this. An exception to NATO countries.
ETA: If you're going to ban immigration from hostile countries why the **** isn't (N) Korea on that list?
variablebinary
12-22-10, 05:59
Not a terrible solution, but I think there are other ways to go about this. An exception to NATO countries.
Like England, which won't even have a English majority in 50 years? Plenty of jihadist can get here through the UK, Germany and France.
Yeah, better off sealing the borders for 10 years, and letting Americans breed real Americans, while giving immigrants a chance to properly assimilate.
Magic_Salad0892
12-22-10, 06:04
Not being combative but:
Do you really think that Al Jabar is going to get a UK citizenship then come into our boarders?
Not saying it's impossible, but it seems pretty unlikely to me, and would be a very decent middle ground.
variablebinary
12-22-10, 06:11
Not being combative but:
Do you really think that Al Jabar is going to get a UK citizenship then come into our boarders?
Not saying it's impossible, but it seems pretty unlikely to me, and would be a very decent middle ground.
No. They will move to Britain, spawn their ****ed up brats which will be the ones that come here and blow shit up as "English Citizens" immigrating to the USA.
Magic_Salad0892
12-22-10, 06:13
Which would take longer than 10 years, when our boarders would be open anyway.
(I am aware that this isn't necessarily true.)
However, it is a pretty good point.
This country doesn't need any more 3rd world deadasses.
ForTehNguyen
12-22-10, 09:24
I prefer a more market based system for immigration. If our country is in demand for certain type of tradeskills we should give them priority over others. If we need more engineers, those who wish to immigrate that have engineering skills should be naturalized with higher priority. If we need more lettuce pickers then let them have greater priority.
What we dont need are people who wish to come here to not produce and live off the dole.
This is very well thought out and in many ways right on, though it does not really offer any suggestions. But then again I don't know that I really have any to offer either. Something that you almost touched on, but not quite was one of the main reasons for the assimilation of our earlier immigrants, our "melting pot". You yourself covered the fact that they were most all from Europe, so their cultures while different still had a very shared past and had its own common culture. They all celebrated many of the same holidays, had many of the same fairytales, most were Christian and several other shared culture points that allowed them to have a common ground on which to melt in to a single different culture. Now take many of the immigrants that are coming in today( at least the ones that we seem to be worried about) They don't have the similarities that were there in the major groups of earlier immigration. This has lead to that analogy that we are no longer a melting pot but instead are a tossed salad, where we are all here in the same bowl but are our separate and different pieces that will never be the same.
<opus>
There are far too many generalizations in play here for this to rate consideration as a serious discussion; that said, the whole problem with this issue is that we've got very little else to go on -- and it isn't a localized problem. The debate doesn't seem to fare any better in academia, out on Main Street, or in any of our political circles.
One could advance the argument that those looking to leave one of these "axis" countries may be doing it precisely because of their dissatisfaction or disillusionment with the status quo -- or perhaps even because they are genuinely responding to the American promise of liberty and justice for all. (That is probably better defined as freedom, hope and prosperity, but you get the idea.) These kinds of people tend to strengthen our national fabric, live productive lives and disappear into mainstream America within a generation or two. They are the modern manifestation of the last century's Ellis Island family.
For the first 200 years of our history, those who came to this country generaly wanted nothing more than to assimilate. They learned the language, Anglicized their names, and worked hard to blend-in and live the American Dream. The landscape may look a bit different today because of our national preoccupation with pluralism and political correctness, but these kinds of would-be Americans are still out there. I've served with many soldiers whose parents are first-generation Americans who encouraged their children to serve in the military as a means of giving something back to the country. These are the salt-of-the-earth types that make all of us want to be better citizens, no matter where they happen to be from originally.
The problem, of course, is that for every would-be immigrant seeking to start a new life according to the American ideal, there are plenty who have no real intention of integrating into our society the way that the Scots, Irishmen, Italians, Swedes and Germans did in the 19th century. In some cases, they may not seem to readily possess that ability. Adherents of Islam present a big target here, both because they tend to represent diverse people groups and ethnicities, and also because they are united by a common faith that so often seems at odds with core American values. We can be as closed-minded and intolerant as we wish to be, of course, but they are coming nonetheless. Is this a bad thing? Is there really is a way to change any of it? Should we ban immigration? Should we selectively accept only those with whom we readily identify? Should the numbers be limited from certain parts of the world? These are all fundamentally wrong -- even anti-American -- premises, and yet we find ourselves increasingly compelled to call for action. Why is that?
We aren't going to solve the problem here, but I do think we need to look beyond our shores a bit. Most prosperous western nations are dealing with the very same questions. England, France, Germany ... they are all in much the same circumstance, and we, like they, are finding out that there are no easy answers. It goes back to culture to some degree. Western civilization set the conditions for the relative prosperity and advancement of these nations, and that has quite naturally attracted waves of people from other parts of the world. Therein lies the rub. How many Moroccans can France assimilate before France becomes something else entirely? How many Turks can Germany accommodate before it no longer means the same thing to say that this or that is German?
There are cultural and demographic changes afoot throughout the western world, and the one thing we seem to have in common is that we all seem unable or unwilling to stop them. Should we even try? I sometimes wonder if it isn't "mighty white" of us to really chafe at such things. On the other hand, if it was western culture and the Judeo-Christian ethic that built these nations, how much can these things be be watered-down before western nations begin to look and function more like the ones from which their huddled masses came? (Edit: I'm speaking here of the face of the country, and not of the faces of the individuals that make up that country.) You've got me there. I really don't know, but neither am I completely comfortable admitting that I, like most of you, might sometimes prefer the status quo -- or some well-intentioned regression -- to this particular form of progress.
What we're left with is the startling truth that there are so many cultural, ethnic, religious and racial connections in play here that it is incredibly difficult to define the problem, and even more difficult to deal with it graciously. That's not to say that it isn't worth asking the questions, but it seems highly unlikely that we're going to find any useful answers; especially on a firearms board where we already find ourselves in a sub-culture that is somewhat out of step with contemporary culture (though very much in step with our traditional roots). The value, I think, lies in being able to ask the questions and search for common ground as Americans, rather than to advance proposals of one sort or another in hopes that they will resolve our collective woes. The times, they are a changing -- all we can really do is to hope to shape those changes for the greater good.
</opus>
AC
RogerinTPA
12-22-10, 10:18
Seal the borders and close all immigration for 10 years.
Just because a bunch of crazy Dutch, French, Spanish and Anglo-Saxons decided to cross an ocean and fight with Indians for this continent doesn't entitle everyone everywhere the right to come here for all eternity.
That's a bunch of bullshit the press loves to spread. There is no eternal Ellis island.
Bingo! Well said. ;)
Jesus - hate much?
I don't know that it is hate. Sounds more like, frustrated caution. I could be wrong since I don't know 500, but hate is an awfully powerful emotion that people seem to accuse so many others of if they have a certain position in certain arguments. It does not mean that they harbor any hatred or even any ill will toward them, they just have their own view. Personally speaking there are some people I don't want to be around. I don't hate them, and they are not bad in any way that I can tell, just not people that I want to be around. I know for a fact that there people out there that feel that way about me. Some things are neither good or bad, they just are what they are.
This country doesn't need any more 3rd world deadasses.
Hell we have too many of our own naturally born deadasses that I wish we could get rid of.
My wife's family came here as refugees in the mid seventies. My in-laws are college educated professionals who each speak four languages. Both jumped into professional careers with a major corporation and recently retired. They raised two smart and gifted girls, both of which went on to college and professional careers, one law enforcement, the other corporate. They have all given more to this country than they have taken. My great grandparents emigrated here after WWI from Germany, an enemy state, as refugees. Quite a few Japanese and Germans emigrated here both before and after the wars, as did Koreans, Vietnamese, Somalis, Lebanese, Iraqi's and Afghans, most will do great things for this country, many already have. Personally I am less concerned about the people who emigrate here from other countries, coming here for what makes this country great, eager to contribute, than I am the homegrown xenophobes who should be required to get a visa to visit the adjoining county; they're the greater danger. Are there some bad apple emigres? Sure there are. Not everyone succeeds or assimilates here. But denying people based on Country of origin is asinine. For example, the Lebanese? Many are christian, many are of European, not Arab extraction.
Army Chief
12-22-10, 16:05
Hell we have too many of our own naturally born deadasses that I wish we could get rid of.
You may be on to something. Perhaps we need an involuntary expulsion program to go along with our immigration policy. ;)
AC
Army Chief
12-22-10, 16:10
... denying people based on Country of origin is asinine. For example, the Lebanese? Many are christian, many are of European, not Arab extraction.
Agree, and meant to point that out earlier. A majority of the Iranians, Lebanese and even Iraqis that I've encountered in the Western World left their homeland because they subscribed to some form of the Christian faith, and were subjected to harrassment and/or outright persecution. These are people with significant native insights into cultures, goverments and belief systems that we often know astonishingly little about. We would do well to have such people on the team.
AC
GermanSynergy
12-22-10, 16:18
I've met Maronite Christians, Bahai, Zoroastrians and other minority faiths from the Middle East, and don't think these folks should be denied entry into the Unites States based on where they were born.
Many Lebanese are Christians as well.
Agree, and meant to point that out earlier. A majority of the Iranians, Lebanese and even Iraqis that I've encountered in the Western World left their homeland because they subscribed to some form of the Christian faith, and were subjected to harrassment and/or outright persecution. These are people with significant native insights into cultures, goverments and belief systems that we often know astonishingly little about. We would do well to have such people on the team.
AC
Bobert0989
12-23-10, 04:12
Didn't read every post here but thought I would chime in (if it's not been said already)...
If a terrorist wants into the USA, they will MAKE it happen somehow. Banning entire POPULATIONS from entering the United States will only keep out the "good ones" trying to find a better life for themselves and/or their families. You think the Taliban will just "give-up" if we banned ALL Iranians from coming in? No, they would buy papers making their agents Canadian or French or Egyptian. They will get around it.
The bad ones could very easily just fly into Mexico and walk across with the other millions of illegals that we take care of with tax money every year. Until the border is considered 100% protected from illegal immigration, you will NOT keep people out that want in badly enough.
Sorry if I am repeating anyone, but this is NOT the way to solve immigration issues... and if it happens to offend any illegal immigrant that is squandering away my tax money while not contributing your own, feel free to leave. Now.
~Bobby
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