View Full Version : Question about SIG P226R
I've read that after 2005/6 and the name change in 2007 of SIGARMS the quality of the guns produced in the US really declined...
I've been googling a lot trying to find out everything about the P226 and I want it in .40 S&W (mainly for versatility, much easier to take a .40 and convert it down to .357 or 9mm), because ~$700 is a pretty big investment for me, and I want to make sure I get the absolute perfect one.
After quite a few hours of google research I've found out that Sig started offering the P226 in .40 S&W and .357 SIG in 1996.
This is also the year they started using machined instead of stamped slides. (Many complain about top-heaviness of the machined slide, unless the frame is also made of stainless steel, which is available in the SL or Sport II SL models. I don't anticipate this will be a problem, as I won't own or fire many other guns, so if I don't know anything else, I don't expect it to bother me.)
One of the few problems the gun had was the trigger bar spring, which was redisigned in 1998.
This info was gleaned from this article (http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/sig-sauer_p226.htm)
So if I get a non-railed 226 make sure it's manufactured after 1998 to get the improved trigger bar spring...
I'm still trying to find out when Sig added the rail option to the gun, anyone know?
Stamped slide Sigs are still produced in Germany. It is a nice design and allows for a reliable internal extractor which can shrug off a case failure(kaboom) and keep on going. External extractors tend to bend, break, or pop out if you have a case failure.
Milled slides started being produced in the US in order to meet the 1990 introduction of the .40S&W. There was virtually no interest in the .40 overseas, and Sig Germany had no interest in producing pistols in this caliber. Plus, the heavier recoil of the .40 was too hard on the stamped slides. You see that this time companies were simply retrofitting existing 9mm pistols to shoot the .40, and Sig Germany would have had to have stamped out thicker slide material and did more machining to meet the engineering requirements for the .40. So, Sig USA decided to make milled slides on US soil for the P229 and P226 .40s to meet the US market needs.
Personally I think that you would be much more happy with a W. German stamped slide P226 9mm or P228 9mm. They are much lighter, handle better, and I've found that they tend to function better in the long term. They are easy to find at gun shows or online. In regard to the new trigger bar spring, you can use this spring on all production Sigs........no matter the year. The trick is that you need the newer grip scales which have a cuttout to accomidate the new spring. Sig sells new style P228 and P226 grips to take care of this. Rails were introduced in the early 2000s, but I dont' remember for sure.
As far as the gun being "perfect" they do not exist. If you're buying used, it's usually better to find a Sig that has some wear to it. That way you'll know that it has been carried, shot, and likely had a satisfied owner. I bought an old P229 once that was in mint condition. The reason that it was in mint condition was because it was a lemon. The slide was out of spec, and it's point of aim was about a foot too high. Some of the best Sigs I have ever owned were old, beat up W. German guns that after I gave them a little TLC turned out to be outstanding, reliable guns. Unlike modern Sigs.
Personally I think that you would be much more happy with a W. German stamped slide P226 9mm or P228 9mm. They are much lighter, handle better, and I've found that they tend to function better in the long term.
emphasis...mine.
Absolutely agree with this 100%. There is no match in the Sig catalog for the "W. German" or "German," P226 or P228 pistols!
gave up and called sig. 2006 is when they started making the 226R's. =(
Have you thought about one of these models:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=207297606
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=207080156
They are closer to the German quality and most are PCE.
Probably the best railed Sig is going to be the P228R 9mm which is mostly German made. It uses the traditional stamped slide, and only the small parts are made in the US. They are not a full production pistol in the US, althought they are in Germany. US Sig Sauer imported about 2000-3000 of them and they are in circulation. If I were in the market for a railed Sig, this is the one I would buy.
gave up and called sig. 2006 is when they started making the 226R's. =(
Huh... I must have a prototype then. I believe I bought my P226R 9mm around '03 or so.
While the old stamped slide W. German models are a little lighter, the newer stainless slide models are a much more solid design, less prone to parts breakage and are less prone to rust. I also think the new ones are nicer pistols, with better triggers and finishes that seem to last more than a week unlike the German models.
Some folks are sounding like broken records in these SIG threads. My new and old SIGs all work the same, perfectly. In my experience, the Classic series SIGs (new or old) are some of the most reliable handguns that you can buy, along with the H&K's.
I would buy a new SIG with confidence (just did) and if something were to happen, then they will take care of it.
I purchased my 226R in 2005. So I think they're wrong on what they told you.
My gun has been just as reliable as every German produced one I've ever had. But given the amount of complaints online, most specifically on sigforum a dedicated sig lover's site, I would not purchase a new production gun from them now.
While they may very well take care of it I'd prefer to have something reliable out of the box as opposed to hit and miss with the satisfaction I can send it in to be repaired.
What made me actually notice how bad things seem to be going at Sig was when longtime sigforum members started making statements they were going to start buying HK's out of disgust.
I purchased my 226R in 2005. So I think they're wrong on what they told you.
My gun has been just as reliable as every German produced one I've ever had. But given the amount of complaints online, most specifically on sigforum a dedicated sig lover's site, I would not purchase a new production gun from them now.
While they may very well take care of it I'd prefer to have something reliable out of the box as opposed to hit and miss with the satisfaction I can send it in to be repaired.
What made me actually notice how bad things seem to be going at Sig was when longtime sigforum members started making statements they were going to start buying HK's out of disgust.
Most of the SIGforum complaints are that SIG has started to use some MIM parts and shipping guns with plastic guide rods. I very rarely see "my SIG is a POS, it broke and won't fire a round" type of posts on the net. The POS 250 that SIG keeps on trying to shove down peoples throats doesn't help with their reputation either.
The MIM parts is a thing of life now with firearms. It's almost unavoidable as most manufacturers use them. Even the most popular pistol on this board has MIM frame rails! The plastic guide rod is a cheap fix ($4) so it's a non issue, IMO.
As for the German vs US made SIGs... Like I said, the stainless steel slide is much better for a hard use pistol than the older stamped ones. The roll pins in the slide can and do break, and if not replaced after x amount of rounds, shit starts to break. With the stainless slides you don't have to worry about anything.
It would be interesting to see the percentage of new Classic SIGs going back to the factory compared to other pistols such as Glocks and M&P's. I bet people would be surprised.
It would be interesting to see the percentage of new Classic SIGs going back to the factory compared to other pistols such as Glocks and M&P's. I bet people would be surprised.
That's an interesting point. Years back when I went through Glock's armorer's course they made mention of the number of pistols that they were getting back regarding KB's and at that time it was several a month. I can't recall any exact number but it was enough to surprise me.
And that came directly from a plant manager that was at the course alongside the instructor.
As for the German vs US made SIGs... Like I said, the stainless steel slide is much better for a hard use pistol than the older stamped ones. The roll pins in the slide can and do break, and if not replaced after x amount of rounds, shit starts to break. With the stainless slides you don't have to worry about anything.
I was the master armorer for several years while working in the SE region of the DOI. One department kept complaining that their old Sigs kept breaking roll pins. So, I decided to stop in on their operation to see what was going on. Turns out that the armorer on staff was not installing the roll pins properly. The outter pin is supposed to be oriented to the 12 o'clock, and the inner pin to the 6 o'clock. If the pins are not installed to this orientation, the lip of the outter pin contacts the firing pin cutout during firing and it puts additional stress on the pin which can cause a premature fracture. I rarely encounter broken roll pins. Usually those broken pins are accompanied by evidence of improper installation, or recycled pins. Recycled pins are more loose, resulting in increased vibration and shearing velocity......thus, more breaks. Even those that do break, there is usually no evidence of the break actually effecting weapon function as it still tends to hold the breech block and firing pin position in place. Sig Sauer in Germany still likes their stamped slides, and so do most of their European customers.
Generally the roll pins, and solid pins(mill slides) are changed out every 3yrs or 5000rds of consistent duty use. However, many of our FLETC training Sigs are rarely serviced.......they are run until something breaks so we can estimate service lives of parts. The longest life of a roll pin that I have encountered during a servicing was on a W. German P226 with an estimated 60k rounds through it and the roll pin was still in good shape. Then again, I have also encountered broken firing pin position pins on milled slides in between 5k round services.
It would be interesting to see the percentage of new Classic SIGs going back to the factory compared to other pistols such as Glocks and M&P's. I bet people would be surprised.
DOI procured 350 new P226Rs in 2009. These were bought with the higher priced DHS quality controls. We sent back 27 of those due to problems we encountered upon initial inspection and detail strip. USDA bought approximately 500 Glock 22s in 2007, and from my conversations with their master armorer they only sent back 7 for initial inspection problems. I don't have exact numbers for my Customs and Border Patrol partners, but they had even better out of the box guns with their H&K P2000s.
Entropy is correct. When I went through Sig's armorer's course they made certain that we knew the direction to install roll pins. The comment was made by the instructor that this was one way of confirming if a pistol had been taken apart by an armorer or an uncertified individual. At least that's what they said.
They did not make mention of the firing pin contacting the roll pins and causing breakage. Good point to know.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.