View Full Version : Quick! G22 or G23?
I have just been authorized to buy a pistol for my father in law on behalf of my mother in law. I will be buying the weapon tomorrow ( 12/23. Should I get him a G22 or G23? He has average sized hands and this will be his first semi-auto. The only thing he has said is that he wants a .40. Thanks.
I recommend the G23 because I have one and I love it. I don't carry it much but it's a great shooting gun, easy to manage and still gives you 14 rounds of 180gr horsepower. I haven't shot a Gen4 yet but their suppose to be even easier to manage (recoil wise) but I'm extemely happy with my Gen3.
Wayneard3413
12-22-10, 19:46
Glock 17 or 19.
But if he is dead set on the .40 then I would suggest the 23 simply because it is a bit easier to conceal but still more than enough pistol to fight with.
Quiet-Matt
12-22-10, 19:51
If he plans on carrying it go with the 23.
Black Jeep
12-22-10, 19:54
I carry a Glock 23 pretty much every day and I'm satisfied with it.
G22 because you're a grown man.
this will be his first semi-auto. Thanks.
22, consider Gen4 - those seem to have less negativity than 9 mm Gen4s.
With 40 and first pistol, I'd want a softer shooting pistol.
If you are set on the .40, then I vote for the 23.
Agreed. If you are set on the .40, and he might possibly carry it, go with the 23.
Try to talk him into a G19 though. :D
I had the same decision 4 yrs ago.
sooo I have a 17,19,23, and a Gen4 22
Set on the .40? go 23.
If he wants a Glock, get a 3rd gen G17 or G19; if he wants a .40, get an M&P40.
Gosh, this is tough, I'd go G23. My G22 gen 4 is standing by for OEM part. Have you considered the G19?
Let me start with saying my preference would be the 19. With that said my department issues Glocks and we don't bother to buy Glock 22's anymore. We used to issue uniforms model 22's and plainclothes 23's. The 22 doesn't do anything any better than the 23. 2 more rounds is it. After being around hundreds of these over the last 10 years, running the ranges, and shooting many of them I firmly believe that the 23 exibits more inherent accuracy than the 22. Many others have also noticed this trend. Another issue that has been noticed is that the model 22 is hit and miss with lights atached. If the weapon is for home defense and there is any chance of a light on it I wouldn't trust a 22. The model 23's don't seem to exhibit this type failure, or if they do I haven't seen it or read about it.
If I were dead set on a Gen 4 (which I ain't), I would go for the Glock 22, because I think that pistol was the main focus of engineering effort for Gen 4. Best thing you could do would be to get a Gen 3 G17 or G19 (19 would be my personal pick).
1st semi auto? G17/19, hands down
My vote goes for the Beretta 96A1!! :cool: But, if I were limited to Glocks, G22. My girlfriends dad, a big city detective, carries a G22 on duty. And he likes it alot. I have never owned a Glock, as I really like the Berettas, so I might come off as biased. But, I have shot thousands of rounds through various Glocks owned by friends/gun shops and my preference is with the Berettas.
Justin
Thanks guys, if it were me I would go G19 too. I am about to walk out the door and get something...I will let you guys know what I ended up getting him.
M&P40, trust me...if the only requirement is that he has a .40.
G19
Probably the best all around Glock pistol available. Not a fan of the .40 in the Glock platform. One thing that you'll notice if you are on this forum long enough, is that most of the experienced firearms instructors such as Hackathorn and Vickers are not fans of the .40. 9mm if you are using hollow points, and .45acp if you are forced to use ball ammo. The only exception would maybe be the full sized M&P which seems to handle the .40 well and snap the shooter back on target well after each shot.
I have just been authorized to buy a pistol for my father in law on behalf of my mother in law. I will be buying the weapon tomorrow ( 12/23. Should I get him a G22 or G23? He has average sized hands and this will be his first semi-auto. The only thing he has said is that he wants a .40. Thanks.
I prefer the G23 to the G22.
That being said, I would buy him a G19.
Why are you guys recommending the G19 or some other handgun? The OP clearly stated his FIL wanted a 40 S&W and his choices were either a G22 or a G23. For Pete's sake...
G22 because you're a grown man.
:sarcastic:
Awesome!
Why are you guys recommending the G19 or some other handgun? The OP clearly stated his FIL wanted a 40 S&W and his choices were either a G22 or a G23. For Pete's sake...
Sometimes giving an OP advice outside the box that they have provided can change their mind and lead them in a better direction. Often this can save them a lot of money and frustration in the long run as they find out down the road that they should have listened to the majority opinion on M4carbine.net.
Sometimes giving an OP advice outside the box that they have provided can change their mind and lead them in a better direction. Often this can save them a lot of money and frustration in the long run as they find out down the road that they should have listened to the majority opinion on M4carbine.net.
But this isn't for him. He had his guidelines so let's help him out with those.
Between the Gen4 G22 and G23, I'd get the G23.
They had a gen 3 23 and 22 and a gen 4 22. That was all they had in 40. I ended up buying a rtf2 G22 because even though the gen 4 22 felt better, I took the thing apart in the store and the dual recoil spring did not seem tight on the gen 4 so I said to hell with that and got a trusty gen 3. Thanks for the input.
End result- RTF2 Glock 22
End result- RTF2 Glock 22
Ouch. I would never get anything .40 in Glock other than Gen 4. I hope your father in law does not have any problems with it. Talk him into trading it for a Gen 4 or M&P40.
The MP 40s were fifty bucks more. I looked at them and they did look tempting, but went with the cheaper Glock for $499. Why do alot of people have a problem with Glocks in 40 when it is the most carried handgun carried by law enforcement? In my opinion, Glock should put the single recoil spring in the frame of the Gen 4.
The MP 40s were fifty bucks more. I looked at them and they did look tempting, but went with the cheaper Glock for $499. Why do alot of people have a problem with Glocks in 40 when it is the most carried handgun carried by law enforcement? In my opinion, Glock should put the single recoil spring in the frame of the Gen 4.
First off it isn't the most carried pistol in law enforcement. I know a number of agencies that have bought Glock .40s and ditched them for 9mm Glocks or some other make which better meets their needs. The pre 4th generation Glock .40s have been problematic guns if they are not serviced regularly, and they are some of the more jumpy .40S&Ws. Striker fired guns have less rearward resistance than hammer fired pistols. You see, when you fire a shot with a hammer fired pistol, the hammer acts as another recoil absorber as the slide moves rearward. Sigs and H&Ks for example are less jumpy, and tend to last longer in .40S&W than do pre-4th generation Glocks. The M&P is setup, as is the 4th-gen Glock to shoot the .40S&W reliably. With the 4th-Generation Glock 40s the new recoil spring design helps to absorb more of the recoil and keep the pistol more reliable for a longer period of time before servicing. Pre-4th generation .40s tended to start experiencing problems after enough shooting and the recoil spring started losing its stiffness. They were essentially a modified 9mm Glock to shoot .40S&W. Typical malfunctions would be slide/magazine timing issues, where the slide cycles too quickly for the magazine feeding to keep up. Then there are issues with attaching tactical lights which also screws up feeding.
As I said in a previous post, it is very important to listen to the recommendations of the majority posters on M4carbine.net even if it is outside the box of your current thinking........it will save you a lot of money and frustration. Now, if your dad doesn't shoot a whole lot, he might be okay. However, just to ensure that he has a reliable pistol I would change out the recoil spring every 2000rds. If he doesn't shoot it that much, then every 3-5 years if the pistol isn't a safe queen.
Thanks for all of the valuable information that everyone is giving. I have really learned alot from this forum and enjoy the different points of view. However, I have a hard time believing that a GLOCK 22 will not last him a LIFETIME if properly maintained and not mistreated or abused. He will prob not put 2000 rounds through it in his lifetime, but if he does I will make sure that he changes out the recoil spring just in case. Thanks again for everyone taking the time to post.
Runningman
12-24-10, 10:17
Everyone knows Glock attained perfection, with the Gen 4 G23. It's a scientific fact. :D
Pre-4th generation .40s tended to start experiencing problems after enough shooting and the recoil spring started losing its stiffness. They were essentially a modified 9mm Glock to shoot .40S&W. Typical malfunctions would be slide/magazine timing issues, where the slide cycles too quickly for the magazine feeding to keep up. Then there are issues with attaching tactical lights which also screws up feeding.
As I said in a previous post, it is very important to listen to the recommendations of the majority posters on M4carbine.net even if it is outside the box of your current thinking........it will save you a lot of money and frustration. Now, if your dad doesn't shoot a whole lot, he might be okay. However, just to ensure that he has a reliable pistol I would change out the recoil spring every 2000rds. If he doesn't shoot it that much, then every 3-5 years if the pistol isn't a safe queen.
Long time reader, first time posting....
I have to agree. We have issued Glocks for in our agency for over 10 years. 9mm runs fine 99.9% of the time, but .40 gen 3 had too many problems during testing to adopt. That being said, I have run a .40 gen3 Glock 22 in IDPA for @6 years. About once every 2 years, I start to experience feed malfunctions or slide lock with rounds still in the mag. I swap out the recoil spring for a new one, and I am back in business 100%. A couple years back I ordered 5 new recoil springs for @$7 apiece. I just chuck the old one and insert a new one every year or so. Cheap maintenance. Glock 22 gen 4's recoil assembly was designed to cure this issue. A gen 3 g22 will still run fine and I would trust my life to one, just do the maintenance every couple of 1000 rounds. (I also found the locking block pin on my gun was cracked and bent into a "U" shape from the slide pounding into it. $3 per pin, I swap those out every year or so now as well.)
The exact same problem has popped up twice when local T.F.O. Deputies shoot gen 3 Glock 22's at our agency range. Gun starts to have issues, and the first thing I do is swap out their recoil springs, and the guns run the rest of the day 100%.
I have a gen 4 model 22 now, but I only have about 200 round through it. Once I get rid of the stock plastic sights for something decent, it will end up as my IDPA gun... I will eventually post results of how it runs.
I prefer the full size g22 if I want a .40.... I feel like I get a better grip. For a 9mm, I own a g19 and a g26. Personal preferance. The g23 feels more "snappy" in recoil to me than the g22 does. It is all in my mind, I am sure. But that is my impression. Y.M.M.V.
I hope this has helped some.
Why do less knowledgeable people ask these sorts of questions, if they are not going to bother listen to folks with extensive experience on the topic at hand?
Better yet, why should SME's continue to waste their time answering these sorts of inquiries when their hard won knowledge is just going to be ignored?
The OP may have ingnored the experts, but the other post readers can still pick up a thing or two along the way. I was thinking of adding a 4th gen G23 to my safe, but now I think I'll just leave well enough alone stick with my 3rd gen G19 :thank_you2:
Why do less knowledgeable people ask these sorts of questions, if they are not going to bother listen to folks with extensive experience on the topic at hand?
Better yet, why should SME's continue to waste their time answering these sorts of inquiries when their hard won knowledge is just going to be ignored?
Probably should not.
Probably should not.
As the two people who posted immediately before you mentioned, other people get it and appreciate the input.
While I have been a firearms instructor since '79, I am still amazed at what I continue to learn from others in my daily activities and from this forum. Even if some have to bat a suggestion around in their head until they make a choice, in the end that suggestion is knowledge gained even if not taken the first time. Keep them coming guys because they help the rest of us.
As the two people who posted immediately before you mentioned, other people get it and appreciate the input.
I was being a little sarcastic. I have read DocGKR's posts and usually agree with just about everything he says. I don't think he should worry if anyone doesn't use his advice; plenty do.
Probably should not.
I think being a jack@ss when one of our SME's asks why he should even waiste his time giving us advice, should result in a permanent vacation from the forum.
G19, 17, 36, 20SF or 21SF. Keep in mind, the 21SF is a hogleg. 22 and 23... not so much.:big_boss:
bondmid003
12-25-10, 20:51
I voted for G22 because thats what I went with. Don't listen to all the .40 haters either.
Let me caveat this by saying my first glock was a G20
bondmid003
12-25-10, 20:54
First off it isn't the most carried pistol in law enforcement. I know a number of agencies that have bought Glock .40s and ditched them for 9mm Glocks or some other make which better meets their needs. The pre 4th generation Glock .40s have been problematic guns if they are not serviced regularly, and they are some of the more jumpy .40S&Ws. Striker fired guns have less rearward resistance than hammer fired pistols. You see, when you fire a shot with a hammer fired pistol, the hammer acts as another recoil absorber as the slide moves rearward. Sigs and H&Ks for example are less jumpy, and tend to last longer in .40S&W than do pre-4th generation Glocks. The M&P is setup, as is the 4th-gen Glock to shoot the .40S&W reliably. With the 4th-Generation Glock 40s the new recoil spring design helps to absorb more of the recoil and keep the pistol more reliable for a longer period of time before servicing. Pre-4th generation .40s tended to start experiencing problems after enough shooting and the recoil spring started losing its stiffness. They were essentially a modified 9mm Glock to shoot .40S&W. Typical malfunctions would be slide/magazine timing issues, where the slide cycles too quickly for the magazine feeding to keep up. Then there are issues with attaching tactical lights which also screws up feeding.
As I said in a previous post, it is very important to listen to the recommendations of the majority posters on M4carbine.net even if it is outside the box of your current thinking........it will save you a lot of money and frustration. Now, if your dad doesn't shoot a whole lot, he might be okay. However, just to ensure that he has a reliable pistol I would change out the recoil spring every 2000rds. If he doesn't shoot it that much, then every 3-5 years if the pistol isn't a safe queen.
What you're really saying is its very important for people to listen to you :rolleyes: The OP didn't ask about 9mm
Since you are buying this for your FIL... does he KNOW about it? Does he want a Glock? If so, take him to a range, have him shoot both. Let HIM pick between the two... The .40 has a snappy recoil pulse, that is felt even more in the 23, than in the 22. The 27 (I know it's not in your choice list) makes it even worse. It's a characteristic of the .40 S&W round.
Once he has shot both of them, talk to him about his intended use for the pistol. If he wants a daily carry gun, then the 23 will make a better choice. Also, have him look at a good quality holster for carry... Crossbreed, Comp Tac, the likes...
In the end, he will be the owner of the pistol. He may be able to shed light on it, by the way the firearm fits HIS hands. A pistol is an extension of your own hand. If it does not fit you well, and you can't present it properly, then it will be difficult for you to shoot it properly. Both are fine weapons. But, once he is at the range, he may have a hard time finding the front sight... he may naturally gravitate towards another platform, like an M&P or an XD... as you said, it's his first semi auto, so he should have some sort of input into it. Buying a handgun is very intimate. It takes a ton of responsibility to own one, carry one, and use one proficiently. It's great that you are wanting to purchase one for him. I applaud that... I'm a HUGE Glock fan, but as stated... handguns are a very personal choice. Best of luck in whatever you decide on. But, encourage him to get some training, and practice practice practice.
Just my take on the matter... and I know nothing.
Cheers!
G19, 17, 36, 20SF or 21SF. Keep in mind, the 21SF is a hogleg. 22 and 23... not so much.:big_boss:
I for one love the way the 21sf feels. Perfect grip size.
But this is the same guy who likes the USP45 grip as well.
I've carried a G22 on duty for 10 years and a G23 gen 4 off-duty.
If I could only have one I'd go with the G23. You don't lose much in the way of ammo capacity (2 rounds) or accuracy, and it's a more concealable package. I use the small backstap on my G23 and love it; wish my duty gun was a gen 4 as well.
If your father-in-law does not shoot much I would recommend the 9mm G19 gen 4. Modern 9mm JHPs are effective self-defense rounds (I like the 147gr HST) and the decrease in ammo price and felt-recoil will allow more practice and accuracy.
Definitely get to a range where they rent guns and try shooting the G19, G23, and G22. He'll get a better idea of what he wants firsthand instead of on paper or the internet.
Powerball Ammo. Also, dont rely on caliber over shot placement. A 9mm hole in the pons is just as good as a 45 hole in the pons. Cheers
What you're really saying is its very important for people to listen to you :rolleyes: The OP didn't ask about 9mm
How about Dr. Gary Roberts, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and most of the other high profile trainers and experts on this forum and elsewhere that feel the same way about the pre-4th generation Glock .40s. Do you have some first hand insight that trumps their data which spans dozens of agencies across the US, and millions of rounds fired through pre-4th gen Glock 40s?
Me?......I've just been a federal law enforcement firearms instructor for 10 years, and been a Glock armorer for 15 years. I have serviced and worked on about 500 Glocks last time I checked my logs. But then again, what do I know about Glocks and their use.... :rolleyes:
The platform dictates the caliber used, not the other way around. If I was issued a S&W M&P, I'd probably choose .40S&W as my first caliber choice.
I for one love the way the 21sf feels. Perfect grip size.
But this is the same guy who likes the USP45 grip as well.
Im with ya Trajan but a lot of my buds think its big. You know what they say, big hands mean...big feet:sarcastic:
Alot of varied opinions about the Glock 22 RTF2, but the bottom line is that he opened it Christmas morning and was very happy with it and has been talking about it ever since. Thanks for all the input.
bondmid003
12-26-10, 18:44
How about Dr. Gary Roberts, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, and most of the other high profile trainers and experts on this forum and elsewhere that feel the same way about the pre-4th generation Glock .40s. Do you have some first hand insight that trumps their data which spans dozens of agencies across the US, and millions of rounds fired through pre-4th gen Glock 40s?
Me?......I've just been a federal law enforcement firearms instructor for 10 years, and been a Glock armorer for 15 years. I have serviced and worked on about 500 Glocks last time I checked my logs. But then again, what do I know about Glocks and their use.... :rolleyes:
The platform dictates the caliber used, not the other way around. If I was issued a S&W M&P, I'd probably choose .40S&W as my first caliber choice.
Those guys are on m4carbine.net? :confused:
Those guys are on m4carbine.net? :confused:
Not everybody uses their real name for their handle ;)
I'd say a glock 19, but if he's dead set against the superior capacity, reliability, availability and easier shooting of 9mm, the 23 is essentially the same gun, but in 40 cal.
The gen 4 40's have good things said about them...
trooper430
12-26-10, 19:30
Have carried both during my 16 year law enforcement career. I hope your FIL is happy. G23 is a little better for CCW. During our last dept. trade we went back to all G22s. Not great for plain clothes but we make it work. Have shot GEN 2, 3 & 4, all worked well. The RTF was a little hard on the hands after putting a lot of rounds down range. Downside is they tear the heck out of your suit coats.
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