View Full Version : DD Uppers from Smartgunner
Aloha guys,
I was wondering what has been some of the lead times from Smartgunner (actually from Daniel Defense) with respect to DD uppers? I had ordered their $499 DD 16" LW mid-length with Omega X rail on Dec. 6 and have been trying to get a status update from Tommy through email and phone, with no luck. I normally wouldn't care because it's the holiday shopping season and all, but a friend of mine ordered it the same day and he received his upper last week.
I must say, Tommy was super on the day of my order. He actually took down the $499 special, but later placed it back up after I had emailed him, candidly asking where it went.
Mahalo and Happy Holidays!
Mine should be here tomorrow, ordered 11/27, but it is a pinned 14.5" LW with 12FSPM rail. I think it depends on luck of exactly when your order hits in regard to the DD production schedule of certain parts and rails. Your friend, if he ordered the exact same thing, may have gotten in a few ahead of yours, then they ran out of what was in stock?
Oh okay, thanks for the heads up. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't an anomaly. Makes sense though if by luck my order was a part of a new batch, it would take a little longer than my friend's order. At $499, I bet MANY were scooping up that deal!
Now I wish I had picked up the $499 Aimpoint T-1 deal, because I think that's gone too!
The Omega X rails are on back order. I called him yesterday for the same thing. He called DD and they told him the X rails are on back order. That is one thing that he is frustrated with with DD is they don't let him know when things are out of stock. He doesn't know until we start calling wondering where our uppers are. He said they told him 10 days until they are back in. Frustrating but it's not his fault. He has been great about getting back to me with any questions or concerns, I'll be a repeat customer.
lawstudent
12-23-10, 12:10
Same as above, ordered the $500 special on 11/27 UPS says its to be delivered today, just in time for Christmas - nice.
Oh yeah - first post, just coming over from Calguns.net - good to be here.
Now I wish I had picked up the $499 Aimpoint T-1 deal, because I think that's gone too!That didn't have a mount though, a Larue would push it at/over $600. His everyday price on an H1 with Larue is $564...unless you just have to have scuba and night vision capability.
Personally, I cut him a lot of slack on ship times (that he can't control). He negotiated the best deal by far on these uppers w/ DD (and custom set ups no less), waiting 3-6 weeks is worth it IMO, if mine would have shipped early Jan, oh well. I'd have still been happy and not bothered him. You can have the best price or have it right now...not both! To be able to select the exact upper I wanted in a very particular combination I have never seen in stock anywhere (at any price) before, at that price is crazy.
The Omega X rails are on back order. I called him yesterday for the same thing. He called DD and they told him the X rails are on back order. That is one thing that he is frustrated with with DD is they don't let him know when things are out of stock. He doesn't know until we start calling wondering where our uppers are. He said they told him 10 days until they are back in. Frustrating but it's not his fault. He has been great about getting back to me with any questions or concerns, I'll be a repeat customer.
How is that the fault of DD that a dealer is selling things the dealer doesn't have?
How is that the fault of DD that a dealer is selling things the dealer doesn't have?
Because DD takes the order from one of their suppliers (smartgunner in this case) and doesn't inform the supplier that they are back ordered.
IMO - no one is to blame. Both SG and DD are slammed with orders because this is the hands down best deal going.
I ordered with the knowledge there was a projected wait of 3 weeks and the possibility of delays. Ended up taking 4 weeks and couldn't be happier. Considering a second order and don't care if it takes 2 months. At these prices it is worth the wait. If you are the type that will pay premium to lay your hands on it ASAP, this is not the deal for you.
pilotguyo540
12-23-10, 14:27
Now I wish I had picked up the $499 Aimpoint T-1 deal, because I think that's gone too!
There are a couple left if you use coupon code "WhyWait"
Last report said only 4-5 left. Bust ass if you want one.
Mine should be here tomorrow, ordered 11/27, but it is a pinned 14.5" LW with 12FSPM rail. I think it depends on luck of exactly when your order hits in regard to the DD production schedule of certain parts and rails. Your friend, if he ordered the exact same thing, may have gotten in a few ahead of yours, then they ran out of what was in stock?
I ordered the same (+ BCG) except no rail and no muzzle device on 11/26, (order was confirmed on 11/29). As yet no shipping notice.
Because DD takes the order from one of their suppliers (smartgunner in this case) and doesn't inform the supplier that they are back ordered.
When a dealer places an order they can check status of items, just like you can with most dealers when you place your order.
If you are placing an order knowing that its not a stocked item, I guess its all good.
When a dealer places an order they can check status of items, just like you can with most dealers when you place your order.
If you are placing an order knowing that its not a stocked item, I guess its all good.
You really think he calls in every order to check stock on every piece of it? Really? The dude is slammed with orders. If he called to check stock on every rail and barrel for every order he would be lucky to even get all the orders placed. Yes, it's a flawed system but until he and DD can come up with an automated system with stock levels it can't be easily remedied. He does what he can for a one man operation. He keeps the prices low by having low overhead.
LiveFreeOrDie
12-23-10, 18:10
You really think he calls in every order to check stock on every piece of it? Really? The dude is slammed with orders. If he called to check stock on every rail and barrel for every order he would be lucky to even get all the orders placed. Yes, it's a flawed system but until he and DD can come up with an automated system with stock levels it can't be easily remedied. He does what he can for a one man operation. He keeps the prices low by having low overhead.
This...
I think it is unreasonable to expect Tommy to know what is happening at any given time with any given order. He is slammed as a result of a KILLER deal which, I'm sure, has translated to a sharply increased demand for these particular items @ DD, leading to a shortage in the inventory that they had.
I placed my order for my 16" Middy/ 12" Lite Rail on 12-2-10 and haven't heard a peep. But I don't expect to see or hear anything until well after the first of the year as a deal like this is worth waiting for. Hell, I'll probably place an order for another upper for my girl before I see the one I ordered 3 weeks ago
Placed my order for a DD upper 12/9 and hope to get it by my birthday on 1/6. If not, I can wait as it's a great deal.
SomeOtherGuy
12-23-10, 20:10
Ordered on 11/23 and it arrived tonight, so exactly one month for me. A friend ordered c. 11/26 and his is supposed to arrive tomorrow. He got a shipping email, I did not, mine just showed up out of the blue. It's nice.
I ordered knowing that these were built to order on an unpredictable timeline, so I'm completely happy with the turnaround.
Hey thanks for all the feedback guys. This was and still is an amazing deal and I really don't care about how long it takes. In fact, I probably wouldn't have thought anything until my friend, who ordered it the same day as me, got his last week. So naturally, I got excited and just wanted to get a status update like a tracking number. If I was able to get in touch with Tommy, I wouldn't have written this post.
Anyhow, thanks again and Merry Christmas!!
MountainRaven
12-23-10, 22:43
I ordered my upper 15Nov, received (with next day shipping) today, 23Dec.
So... yeah. It can take a while. But it's definitely nice when it shows up....
My LW middie with 12" Omega rails and a BattleComp 1.0 compensator was ordered in late November. It arrived 18 days later.
However, I can appreciate the frustrating delays. I have a 6.8SPC upper from AR Performance on order with DD rails, and they are on backorder.
You really think he calls in every order to check stock on every piece of it? Really?
No, I don't think he does, that is evident. You appear to be misunderstanding part of my comments, or reading into things that aren't there. I'm happy for you that you like what you are getting and how you are getting it. You point out that its a flawed system, I agree.
Personally, I am getting damned frustrated with Tommy's business model.
I ordered a 14.5 inch LW with pinned muzzle device no rails, no nothing on 11/14, and I am starting to get pissed off when folks with more options are crowing about getting their shit before me, having ordered up to two weeks after me. That, and Tommy evidently doesn't feel the need to do customer service, such as answering e-mails or the phone.
Frankly, if I knew it was a one man, fly-by-night, trans-shipment operation, I would've ordered somewhere else and paid a little more.
Personally, I am getting damned frustrated with Tommy's business model.
I ordered a 14.5 inch LW with pinned muzzle device no rails, no nothing on 11/14, and I am starting to get pissed off when folks with more options are crowing about getting their shit before me, having ordered up to two weeks after me. That, and Tommy evidently doesn't feel the need to do customer service, such as answering e-mails or the phone.
Frankly, if I knew it was a one man, fly-by-night, trans-shipment operation, I would've ordered somewhere else and paid a little more.
It's the pinning that's holding it up. He stopped taking orders a while ago due to it taking so long to get them out.
PieceKeeper
12-24-10, 03:54
Still waiting for my pinned 14.5" that I ordered on 11/18.
I once paid an outrageous price for a RRA Stainless upper that took nine months to get to me. There was obviously no deal there and I considered their production to be well established given the regular volume of sales.
With the popularity of these deals, I don't expect it to be quick at all and I assumed that DD is ill-prepared to sustain the high volume of sales. In comparison, BCM has some of their uppers available for very short periods of time before they're sold out and quite a while until they're available again (forgive me if this comparison has already be used)
In this case, it's high quality for a low price so all things considered I'm willing to wait. I'll be happy to shoot the crap out of it when it arrives.
RogerinTPA
12-24-10, 08:07
In Tommy's defense, he had a good number on hand but sold out like crazy due to word of mouth and gun forums like this. I spoke with him yesterday. Unfortunately, the 14.5 with the 12" Lite rail and 1.5 battlecomps, are the most popular configuration so is the most back ordered, but DD is catching up. According to Tommy, DD just finished some batches so the orders should be getting caught up soon.
Anybody getting good product out there, especially at smartgunner prices, gets a thumbs up from me even if it takes a while to fill and deliver the order. If smartgunner had $2 mil in inventory on hand, and was paying the bank interest on that, then the prices could be higher.
It took me 3 weeks to receive my upper. The three weeks included veterans day and thanksgiving weekend. At the price I paid I was willing to wait and I tried my best to not to bug Tommy since he wasn't the one building them. I'm trying super hard not to bring my wallet near the computer cuz I might just order another regardless of the wait time.
As for my $499 T-1, I ordered that on a Friday night, received shipping info on Sunday, mounted it on Wednesday :p Thanks smartgunner!
Here's what my first build looks like...
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g147/mlachica/IMG_1469-1.jpg
It's the pinning that's holding it up. He stopped taking orders a while ago due to it taking so long to get them out.
Really? So the last six guys who said their pinned MV that ordered AFTER me had "what" to explain their randomly preferential treatment?
I don't care what "excuses" people have for Tommy. He needs to start practicing some ****ing Customer Service and tuit suit. It would help if his business model were a bit less opaque for people ordering.
Really? So the last six guys who said their pinned MV that ordered AFTER me had "what" to explain their randomly preferential treatment?
I don't care what "excuses" people have for Tommy. He needs to start practicing some ****ing Customer Service and tuit suit. It would help if his business model were a bit less opaque for people ordering.
Have you tried calling DD with your smartgunner order number? That's how I got my info. I didn't even bother calling Tommy since he would just have to call DD and get back to me. Although it's still his responsibility if I were to do so. And if you're that pissed off call him and cancel your order. Leave a voicemail if he doesn't answer.
I do agree that his customer service could use improvement. At the prices I'm getting I'm willing to let a little slide. But I could easily pay more somewhere else if I wasn't willing to deal with the unknown.
Have you tried calling DD with your smartgunner order number? That's how I got my info. I didn't even bother calling Tommy since he would just have to call DD and get back to me. Although it's still his responsibility if I were to do so. And if you're that pissed off call him and cancel your order. Leave a voicemail if he doesn't answer.
I do agree that his customer service could use improvement. At the prices I'm getting I'm willing to let a little slide. But I could easily pay more somewhere else if I wasn't willing to deal with the unknown.
Call quality from here is awful, and usually makes it impossible to navigate most answering services, so I don't even try.
Tommy contacted me about 30 minutes I made my last post, here. Hopefully he can shed some light on what's going on with my order.
Ordered 11-18
14.5 mid LW w/ pinned BC 1.5, RIS II and BCG
Received it 12-23
I had all my emails answered w/i minutes and phone call answered in a couple rings. He even went as far as to physically check inventory to make sure there wasnt a 14.5 mid length lightweight in his possession.
Failure2Stop
12-24-10, 14:11
Has anybody asked how he is pricing these so far under everyone else?
Has anybody asked how he is pricing these so far under everyone else?
I'd assume he's simply making much less margin on these than most and betting on the volume(which he's getting) to be enough to still make some money on this deal. It was a win/win for DD as well as it got more of their product into consumers hands with zero spent on marketing.
RogerinTPA
12-24-10, 15:07
Has anybody asked how he is pricing these so far under everyone else?
I believe it was a special deal/arrangement directly with Daniel Defense that has been going on for a while. I first heard of the deal back in July and again in Sept during two separate courses from students and the Host of the range.
Received follow-up PM from Tommy on this site, promising to check on my order and get back with me Monday/Tuesday timeframe.
Here is what I ordered, which was confirmed on 11/14:
Daniel Defense Custom (Stripped - No Rail) Upper Receiver Group
Daniel Defense Cold Hammer Forged Barrel: 14.5" 1:7 Lightweight Profile Mid Length Gas System
Choose a Gas Block: Fixed Front Sight Post
Flash Hider: Yankee Hill Phantom Flash Hider (Pinned)
Daniel Defense Rails (No Weapon Modification Required):
Daniel Defense Extras:
Bolt Carrier Group, Complete, F/A, HP & MPI Tested
A1.5 Fixed Rear Sight
A visit to Smartgunner's website today showed the status as "In Progress"
swampthing
12-25-10, 02:54
DD sent me the wrong upper. I sent Tommy an email at about 8pm his time. He called within a few minutes, pulled an upper out of his inventory and had it in the mail the next day. His customer service is tits in my book.
Had it to me on the 23rd which was perfectly in time for Xmas.
Has anybody asked how he is pricing these so far under everyone else?
His Aimpoints, at publicly advertised price on the website, last I looked (which was a long time ago), were so far under MAP that I took it as an "I don't give a crap about my dealer contracts" type of dealer.
eternal24k
12-25-10, 11:49
I just got my pinned middy yesterday, ordered in November. I knew there was going to be a wait, but the price was worth it. There is always going to be some tradeoffs with any deal, some might prefer to pay extra for in-stock, but I am on the other side of the fence. The price (especially for pinned) is off the charts good. As far as communication goes, Tommy has been tops.
I really didnt expect to see people on here complaining about the wait, I kind of thought with the deal it was a given that there would be some delay.
It sounds like he should have it posted on his site that there is an average wait of 3 weeks for the uppers.
Daniel Defense wrongly configured my upper. Tommy made sure it was made right.
Those complaining about SG's customer service need to remember the "Good, cheap, fast. Pick 2" mantra. These are unbelievable prices and if you can't wait 3 weeks, order elsewhere and pay a higher price.
Daniel Defense wrongly configured my upper. Tommy made sure it was made right.
Those complaining about SG's customer service need to remember the "Good, cheap, fast. Pick 2" mantra. These are unbelievable prices and if you can't wait 3 weeks, order elsewhere and pay a higher price.
True, but I'm still irritated by CS not because of the wait, but the misinformation/lack of general info. Its really not a good sign that buyers have to refer to forums to figure out it'll be a 3 week wait. And I'm also not understanding the preferential treatment, what's up with that Tommy? I ordered on 11/29 and got the $499 deal with a 16"LW, 12"omega X, no CH or BCG and no pin job (didnt even get a FH) and there seems to be others who have ordered similar setups on the same day and even after me who already got their shipping a week ago. Not to mention I called Tommy and spoke to him on 12/3 and he told me my order would be shipped out 10 days from then. Well... my account still says I have no order history. WTF :confused:.
eternal24k
12-25-10, 14:47
True, but I'm still irritated by CS not because of the wait, but the misinformation/lack of general info. Its really not a good sign that buyers have to refer to forums to figure out it'll be a 3 week wait. And I'm also not understanding the preferential treatment, what's up with that Tommy? I ordered on 11/29 and got the $499 deal with a 16"LW, 12"omega X, no CH or BCG and no pin job (didnt even get a FH) and there seems to be others who have ordered similar setups on the same day and even after me who already got their shipping a week ago. Not to mention I called Tommy and spoke to him on 12/3 and he told me my order would be shipped out 10 days from then. Well... my account still says I have no order history. WTF :confused:.
DD is shipping them, not Tommy. It all depends on what exact config you are ordering. And I would not be surprised if they were also doing things in batches depending on rail or barrel. There are a lot of factors involved and there is absolutely nothing to point to "preferential treatment".
Good things come to those who wait
DD is shipping them, not Tommy. It all depends on what exact config you are ordering. And I would not be surprised if they were also doing things in batches depending on rail or barrel. There are a lot of factors involved and there is absolutely nothing to point to "preferential treatment".
When I say similar, I mean that I ordered the exact same thing they did, except without a flashhider. Now, if unscrewing a flashhider means an extra week of waiting, that would have been fine had someone told me.
Good things come to those who wait
Yes thank you for that bit. If you missed it in my last post, Tommy told me of a ship date around the 13th. I am fine with waiting as you can see, however I'm not very fond of BS.
RogerinTPA
12-25-10, 15:37
DD is shipping them, not Tommy. It all depends on what exact config you are ordering. And I would not be surprised if they were also doing things in batches depending on rail or barrel. There are a lot of factors involved and there is absolutely nothing to point to "preferential treatment".
Good things come to those who wait
Bingo. I think DD got overwhelmed by the orders placed by Smartgunner. To be fair, Tommy should place a 3-4 week disclaimer on the website, and I should have ordered months ago, before members started spreading the word in classes and gun forums.
jasonhgross
12-25-10, 16:37
I ordered:
14.5" Lightweight profile with Pinned Battlecomp 1.5
RIS II rifle length FDE
I specified pinned gas block.
It took 4 weeks from the date I ordered. I am totally ok with the weight. The quality is amazing, great build up from DD (as expected). I was never mislead with wait time, and I am way more pleased. Considering the price, I am totally ecstatic. So ecstatic that I placed another for a 16" barreled (everything else the same) for a training upper. The one I described above will be my go-to upper for use on my colt/sopmod lower. Just super happy in every way with the smartgunner experience. Outstanding. No disrespect to bcm, but I love the hammer forged lightweight config, so expect to see my bcm BHF upper in the equipment exchange after I get my second dd/smartgunner build.
lfromsalem
12-25-10, 21:30
I ordered two different uppers,and a bunch of other parts from Tommy on 12-23.
16in w/omega x 12.0 ($499 deal)
11.5 w/lite 10.0, no flash
BCG, CH
LPK,
...and a stripped lower.
Tommy was great, answered all my questions, and was quick to get in touch with me regarding payment options.
I will deal with him again.
I just got my pinned middy yesterday, ordered in November. I knew there was going to be a wait, but the price was worth it. There is always going to be some tradeoffs with any deal, some might prefer to pay extra for in-stock, but I am on the other side of the fence. The price (especially for pinned) is off the charts good. As far as communication goes, Tommy has been tops.
I really didnt expect to see people on here complaining about the wait, I kind of thought with the deal it was a given that there would be some delay.
a) You got your pinned middy. Great for you. I'm still sitting on my ass waiting for mine. I don't care if you think it's awesome. I'm still screwed, as far as I can tell.
b) As far as communication goes, Tommy still hasn't figured out how to return a single one of my e-mails, so I don't care how "tops" you think his communication goes. I had to publicly complain on an internet forum for him to bother to communicate with me.
Nothing I hate worse than "I've got mine, so **** you" attitude some of you guys have.
Bottom line. Tommy has a pretty shitty model for doing business. Knowledgeable insiders get treated well, and casual orderers can go pound sand. The complete and utter lack of transparency on his website about how the ordering system works is unsatisfactory, in my book.
If I knew more about how the ordering process worked at the time of my order, I wouldn't be as pissed off.
warlord260
12-26-10, 00:09
Somewhere it was said to contact DD direct with you order#, as it might be more direct. I would'nt know as mine has only been 2 weeks, so not worried yet.
eternal24k
12-26-10, 07:28
There is no "ive got mine, so **** you" attitude, the point is that they take time but do come. Nothing I hate more than the "everybody has theirs but me, life isnt fair" or "other people are getting special treatment, woe is me" bitching. If taking time is getting screwed then yeah, I guess you are screwed, and I was screwed last week. I shared my experience to let you know that the product does come, I still cant believe so many people are bitching, with a deal this good there is always going to be a downside. If you can't take the wait just cancel. As mentioned, the orders are in DDs hands.
a) You got your pinned middy. Great for you. I'm still sitting on my ass waiting for mine. I don't care if you think it's awesome. I'm still screwed, as far as I can tell.
b) As far as communication goes, Tommy still hasn't figured out how to return a single one of my e-mails, so I don't care how "tops" you think his communication goes. I had to publicly complain on an internet forum for him to bother to communicate with me.
Nothing I hate worse than "I've got mine, so **** you" attitude some of you guys have.
Bottom line. Tommy has a pretty shitty model for doing business. Knowledgeable insiders get treated well, and casual orderers can go pound sand. The complete and utter lack of transparency on his website about how the ordering system works is unsatisfactory, in my book.
If I knew more about how the ordering process worked at the time of my order, I wouldn't be as pissed off.
There is no "ive got mine, so **** you" attitude, the point is that they take time but do come. Nothing I hate more than the "everybody has theirs but me, life isnt fair" or "other people are getting special treatment, woe is me" bitching. If taking time is getting screwed then yeah, I guess you are screwed, and I was screwed last week. I shared my experience to let you know that the product does come, I still cant believe so many people are bitching, with a deal this good there is always going to be a downside. If you can't take the wait just cancel. As mentioned, the orders are in DDs hands.
You lack reading comprehension skills. Read everything I've read so far and point out where I complain about "the wait." I'm complaining about his business model, unresponsiveness and lack of customer service.
My biggest objection is when someone makes a blanket statement like "Tommy's customer service is top-notch".
Tommy, at a minimum, owes the customer a response to reasonable inquiries. (Which in my case means no response, until I take it to a public internet forum) In addition, if his customer service were worth a shit, he'd already be tracking orders that are outside a certain time-norm. Say, when shipping times are "up to a month", a dude like me, who is currently at a month and a half and counting, he should've been on top of that tuit suit.
Instead, Tommy is sitting back, reactively, and waiting for folks to complain. (evidently) Excusing Tommy's piss poor customer service and business model just reflects poorly on his defenders. Most, or all of which defenders got their shit in a fairly timely manner, btw.
Is he swamped? Frankly, I don't give a shit. That's HIS problem. Is his Spam Filter blocking my e-mails? Again, I don't give a shit. That's HIS problem.
Seriously, I should charge him a fee for giving him good advice, if he manages to read this. If you are running a business like Smartgunner:
1. You need to spell out, in detail what ordering entails, if the item is not in stock. (He kind of/sort of does this in the current message hidden in his mostly under construction website, but not sufficiently, imo, and I don't think it was there when I ordered on 11/14).
2. You need to have a mechanism to notify CS people (or yourself, if it's a one man show, when orders exceed a certain time - norm. And you need to notify customers when their order will exceed those norms expeditiously and by an agreed-upon means. And, obtw, you never ever ship orders out of time order, especially in this day and age when folks can get together online and compare experiences.
3. You need to have a rock solid means of communicating with customers. That includes backstopping your spam filter if you have one, by looking at the spam file on a regular basis. and
4. You need to be able to project sales, and react to unprojected success by spending money, if necessary. Even if it means losing money. Because your reputation is worth more than your money.
I detest poor customer service, and can smell it from a mile away. And I will not tolerate it.
You lack reading comprehension skills. Read everything I've read so far and point out where I complain about "the wait."
My biggest objection is when someone makes a blanket statement like "Tommy's customer service is top-notch".
Tommy, at a minimum, owes the customer a response to reasonable inquiries. If his customer service were worth a shit, he'd already be tracking orders that take over a certain amount of time. Say, when shipping times are "up to a month", a dude like me, who is currently at a month and a half and counting, he should've been on top of that tuit suit.
Instead, Tommy is sitting back, reactively, and waiting for folks to complain. (evidently) Excusing Tommy's piss poor customer service and business model just reflects poorly on his defenders. Most, or all of which defenders got their shit in a fairly timely manner.
Is he swamped? Frankly, I don't give a shit. That's HIS problem.
You need a tissue?
Dude... I understand your frustration, but are you helping the matter here attacking Tommy? Why are you resorting to acting like anyone that posts an update in here about their order is somehow saying hahahahaha **** YOU to you.... someone needs a chill pill. I also like your mental image of Tommy just kicked back in a chair waiting for people to call with a problem.... he couldn't possibly be working could he.
But in the end. Frankly, I don't give a shit. This is YOUR problem.
You need a tissue?
Dude... I understand your frustration, but are you helping the matter here attacking Tommy? Why are you resorting to acting like anyone that posts an update in here about their order is somehow saying hahahahaha **** YOU to you.... someone needs a chill pill. I also like your mental image of Tommy just kicked back in a chair waiting for people to call with a problem.... he couldn't possibly be working could he.
But in the end. Frankly, I don't give a shit. This is YOUR problem.
Actually, I think if I'm hard on Tommy now, he'll smarten up and fix his screwed up business model. I'm not the only one who has noticed the obvious gaping holes in it. I'm just the only one who is really spelling it out in detail.
What I do going forward depends on what Tommy has to say tomorrow.
Dude chill out.
Smartgunner is providing a hell of a service to people. Just because it wasn't fast enough for you and he isn't at your beck and call doesn't mean he is a bad guy or providing poor service.
What I do going forward depends on what Tommy has to say tomorrow.
Subtle threats?
I am curious as to what you think you are going to do? File a complaint with the BBB? Sue him? send him a nasty letter?
Sorry to come off like a jerk but I just find the attitude un-befitting of this site.
Singlestack Wonder
12-26-10, 10:30
Dude chill out.
Smartgunner is providing a hell of a service to people. Just because it wasn't fast enough for you and he isn't at your beck and call doesn't mean he is a bad guy or providing poor service.
Subtle threats?
I am curious as to what you think you are going to do? File a complaint with the BBB? Sue him? send him a nasty letter?
Sorry to come off like a jerk but I just find the attitude un-befitting of this site.
+10
Let's face it, the deals that Smartgunner is offering are incredible, period. DD needed to move product in a bad economy, Tommy provided a conduit to help them create an order backlog, and thus, DD is very busy attempting to keep up with the demand. If one can't wait to receive the best deal ever on Daniel Defense uppers and lowers, then go pay more at another retailer.
If you don't like it vote with your wallet and go somewhere else. I would say the vast majority of us are happy waiting a month and saving several hundred dollars. What really kills me is you think their is preferential treatment. I am nothing more than a joe nobody to him and have been treated great. The orders go to DD and they get built in order from when they get them along with the needed parts. He's doing a great service getting people top notch upppers at mid-tier prices. He's getting repeat business for a reason, your not happy. Fine, go to someone else and stop the veiled threats and complaining.
If you don't like it vote with your wallet and go somewhere else. I would say the vast majority of us are happy waiting a month and saving several hundred dollars. What really kills me is you think their is preferential treatment. I am nothing more than a joe nobody to him and have been treated great. The orders go to DD and they get built in order from when they get them along with the needed parts. He's doing a great service getting people top notch upppers at mid-tier prices. He's getting repeat business for a reason, your not happy. Fine, go to someone else and stop the veiled threats and complaining.
Well said!
Dude chill out.
Smartgunner is providing a hell of a service to people. Just because it wasn't fast enough for you and he isn't at your beck and call doesn't mean he is a bad guy or providing poor service.
Fast has nothing to do with it. Losing or forgetting about my order, or sending orders out not in the order received DOES have something to do with it. I'm pretty sure because he doesn't have an acceptable business model.
Subtle threats?
I am curious as to what you think you are going to do? File a complaint with the BBB? Sue him? send him a nasty letter?
Sorry to come off like a jerk but I just find the attitude un-befitting of this site.
I am a very, very good writer. I earn over 6 figures a year as a writer. I will make a hobby out of him and his so-called "business" if
As for whether my attitude is "unbefitting of this site" that's straight up bullshit.
+10
Let's face it, the deals that Smartgunner is offering are incredible, period. DD needed to move product in a bad economy, Tommy provided a conduit to help them create an order backlog, and thus, DD is very busy attempting to keep up with the demand. If one can't wait to receive the best deal ever on Daniel Defense uppers and lowers, then go pay more at another retailer.
Again (yawn) it's not about the wait. It's about lack of communication and the apparent loss of my order. BTW, neither of those by themselves would be a deal killer. If he lost my order, and responded to my e-mails, we wouldn't be discussing this right now. SG and I would've come to a friendly conclusion. In fact, we still might.
If you don't like it vote with your wallet and go somewhere else. I would say the vast majority of us are happy waiting a month and saving several hundred dollars.
It's been over a month and a half, and he has not responded to my e-mails. But why bother with facts?
What really kills me is you think their is preferential treatment. I am nothing more than a joe nobody to him and have been treated great. The orders go to DD and they get built in order from when they get them along with the needed parts.
Bullshit. Orders identical to or more complex than mine, ordered over two weeks AFTER mine have found their way into the hands of happy owners. That, combined with Tommy not answering e-mails is what pisses me off.
He's doing a great service getting people top notch upppers at mid-tier prices. He's getting repeat business for a reason, your not happy. Fine, go to someone else and stop the veiled threats and complaining.
I would, if I could, but I CAN'T. Because Tommy won't respond to my e-mails. (sent prior to the Christmas holiday, of course)
Um, you guys want to actually read my posts? Because as much as I like taking apart your poorly constructed arguments, it does get tiresome.
Actually I have read your posts and you are coming off angry and unreasonable.
Did you ever think that maybe it was something besides the pinning that was holding up your order? Maybe there was a problem in his system. Who knows. You stated that he sent you PMs and has responded then you say he is ignoring your emails. So I guess he magically can do both.
Your better than thou attitude is indeed out of place on this site. You make 6 figures writing? Great /yawn. And you want to make his business a "hobby".
I have already saved this thread just in case it is needed in the suit that Tommy should file against you if you do start trying to screw with his business.
ghettomedic
12-26-10, 11:23
I emailed Tommy about FH pinning, as the 14.5 + BC 1.5 seems to be the tits for this upper. Here is my email and his response:
"I ordered a DD 14.5" LW profile upper from you on Thursday and I've since read on M4Carbine.net that you are no longer pinning the FH and that the upper will be shipped without pinned FH. I wasn't able to find any info on this on your website aside from the Smith Vortex being available as a non-pinned option. Are the FHs being pinned at DD? If they aren't, is it possible to arrange to have them pinned prior to shipping? There aren't ANY reputable gunsmiths in my area and I don't want to get the upper only to have to send it off again.
Please let me know what the deal is, as I said before there are rumors on the internet but I'd rather hear it from you personally.
Thanks for an outstanding deal on the upper"
Tommy's Reply:
"Unfortunately we are not able to provide pinning services at this time. In this case, we can either change to the 16" barrel and the 1.0 BattleComp, ship as-is, or send it to the gunsmith of your choosing.
As an aside, we have several customers sending their uppers to Adco for pinning and we are happy to do that for you if you like.
I'm sorry we aren't able to better assist by getting this pinned for you.
Please let us know how you would like to proceed.
Thanks and thank you for your business."
I emailed him on Christmas Eve. His email is dated 11:37 PM on Christmas Day. Maybe 120mm has had a poor experience but I've been very satisfied with the CS so far.
Replying to individual emails at midnight on a holiday? Smartgunner is going to get more of my business.
Failure2Stop
12-26-10, 11:32
Everyone:
120mm is reasonably upset that his order has taken an inordinate amount of time to get to him. He complied with site rules by contacting SG before posting. He did not start the thread.
Whether or not someone else is satisfied with their order is irrelevant; he is not and followed the proper steps before bringing it up.
I have a faint suspicion that 120mm wouldn't be talking about it as much as he has if others weren't arguing with him about it, so those of you that are might want to think about what your continued defence of SG is actually doing to SGs reputation.
Army Chief
12-26-10, 11:34
Not at all impressed with where this thread appears to be headed. Consider this fair warning.
AC
ForTehNguyen
12-26-10, 13:23
i got a PM from smartgunner asking for order number and email address but his acct is setup not to receive PMs so I have to notify him here. Cant send a PM without him changing his account settings to receive PMs
buckshot27
12-26-10, 13:23
Tommy has always answered the phone when I called or has responded to my e-mails within 24 fours.
I emailed him couple times and got it back at same day :D It was late time too.
Also ordered Aimpoint T1 from him.
Now, he is one of my top 3 store in my book.
I hope no one jumps on me for this, I am just going to state what I observe. I just find it unusual that there are guys like ghettomedic, buckshot27, and Skang here that all get their emails replied to, while others dont get a peep back from SG via email or phone.
120mm
You have probably already thought of it... but is there any chance that your email is going to his junk folder? I've had emails do that to me before from certain accounts. I know that doesn't fix the phone call problem but just a thought.
120mm
You have probably already thought of it... but is there any chance that your email is going to his junk folder? I've had emails do that to me before from certain accounts. I know that doesn't fix the phone call problem but just a thought.
+1, that's what I was just thinking.
jasonhgross
12-26-10, 17:22
I just put in another order and tommy was very responsive to my email question. I have no financial or other connection to smartgunner or any of the other posters. I in fact, was skeptical of the deal before I ordered my first upper. Now that I have it, I couldnt be happier. I dont think that the other poster's are getting "special" treatment.
120mm
You have probably already thought of it... but is there any chance that your email is going to his junk folder? I've had emails do that to me before from certain accounts. I know that doesn't fix the phone call problem but just a thought.
I am almost certain of it. Which is why I recommend that every small business owner either disable this function, or school themselves to backstop the junk folder at regular intervals.
Which is part of a good business model.
I hope no one jumps on me for this, I am just going to state what I observe. I just find it unusual that there are guys like ghettomedic, buckshot27, and Skang here that all get their emails replied to, while others dont get a peep back from SG via email or phone.
Indeed. This seems to expose a systematic issue. One that can be corrected, btw.
Actually I have read your posts and you are coming off angry and unreasonable.
Angry, yes. Unreasonable... naw. I actually want my product, or something similar. Or just a reasonable explanation as to why. Really, I would accept an in stock 16" lightweight as a substitute and go away, but I have no way to communicate this to Tommy.
Did you ever think that maybe it was something besides the pinning that was holding up your order? Maybe there was a problem in his system. Who knows. You stated that he sent you PMs and has responded then you say he is ignoring your emails. So I guess he magically can do both.
I'm almost certain my order is lost or misplaced, or just taking an inordinately long time. I would cheerfully accept a heads up and an offer for an alternative order, if he were so inclined.
You might recall he ONLY sent me a PM when he became aware of my posting on this forum. Now he has disabled the response bit on PM, so I cannot offer to accept a 16" lightweight assembly.
To boot, I have a very narrow window when I can go shoot this thing this year. I have 2 weeks of leave coming up, and would like to shoot my carbine during it. If it takes much longer to send my order or refund my money, I won't have the opportunity to order a replacement from someone else. This puts my shooting this thing into 2012.
Your better than thou attitude is indeed out of place on this site. You make 6 figures writing? Great /yawn. And you want to make his business a "hobby".
I have already saved this thread just in case it is needed in the suit that Tommy should file against you if you do start trying to screw with his business.
Ah yes. Speaking of veiled threats. Seriously, my defense against crap like that is to stick to the truth. Which I have from post #1.
i got a PM from smartgunner asking for order number and email address but his acct is setup not to receive PMs so I have to notify him here. Cant send a PM without him changing his account settings to receive PMs
Hmmm.... Question asked, answer given....
i didn't read when you placed your order 120mm, but i placed my order on 19 Nov and i am still waiting. I know my order has taken so long because DD ran out of 12" Lite rails. Anyways since there back in stock hopefully where at the top of the list at DD to have our rifles made.
i didn't read when you placed your order 120mm, but i placed my order on 19 Nov and i am still waiting. I know my order has taken so long because DD ran out of 12" Lite rails. Anyways since there back in stock hopefully where at the top of the list at DD to have our rifles made.
Thanks, Brent. I ordered 11/14 and asked for "no rails". I get that pinning a 14.5" muzzle device (the YHM) would take longer.
I, too, hope that carbine uppers keep flowing.
I am a little skittish about "hopefully". I know that there a bunch of pitfalls involving production, having worked QC/CS before in a production kind of place in another life, which is why my meter pinged, hard, when people started getting their stuff that appeared to be identical, or more complex than mine, having ordered up to two weeks after. Out of sequence delivery usually indicates some serious production accountability problems, and it sucks to be caught in one of those "loops".
This is why communication with customers is so damned important. The combination of out of sequence delivery and broken customer communications will kill customer relations faster than anything.
Littlelebowski
12-27-10, 07:20
When was he going to tell you about the lack of pinning? Did you order it pinned?
I emailed Tommy about FH pinning, as the 14.5 + BC 1.5 seems to be the tits for this upper. Here is my email and his response:
"I ordered a DD 14.5" LW profile upper from you on Thursday and I've since read on M4Carbine.net that you are no longer pinning the FH and that the upper will be shipped without pinned FH. I wasn't able to find any info on this on your website aside from the Smith Vortex being available as a non-pinned option. Are the FHs being pinned at DD? If they aren't, is it possible to arrange to have them pinned prior to shipping? There aren't ANY reputable gunsmiths in my area and I don't want to get the upper only to have to send it off again.
Please let me know what the deal is, as I said before there are rumors on the internet but I'd rather hear it from you personally.
Thanks for an outstanding deal on the upper"
Tommy's Reply:
"Unfortunately we are not able to provide pinning services at this time. In this case, we can either change to the 16" barrel and the 1.0 BattleComp, ship as-is, or send it to the gunsmith of your choosing.
As an aside, we have several customers sending their uppers to Adco for pinning and we are happy to do that for you if you like.
I'm sorry we aren't able to better assist by getting this pinned for you.
Please let us know how you would like to proceed.
Thanks and thank you for your business."
I emailed him on Christmas Eve. His email is dated 11:37 PM on Christmas Day. Maybe 120mm has had a poor experience but I've been very satisfied with the CS so far.
Replying to individual emails at midnight on a holiday? Smartgunner is going to get more of my business.
eternal24k
12-27-10, 08:14
When was he going to tell you about the lack of pinning? Did you order it pinned?
Probably not, last I checked (end of November), pinning was no-longer an option when configuring an order.
Probably not, last I checked (end of November), pinning was no-longer an option when configuring your an order.
The option for pinning was removed from the web page on the week of Thanksgiving. Tommy has said that it will be a while before the pinning option will be available again.
When was he going to tell you about the lack of pinning? Did you order it pinned?
Yes, on 11/14 I ordered it pinned. I am assuming that those who ordered before the option was taken off the board will still get their gear pinned. If not, it would kind of be like getting your burger from McDonald's uncooked.
No word from Tommy yet, understand I am nearly a whole day ahead of him.
Right now I'd take the $20 hit and accept a 16" LW barreled upper and be happy with it. IF he's reading this thread.
For those that are interested, I took the advice of some on this forum and contacted DD directly with my Smartgunner order #. I also offered to accept a 16" any muzzle device substitute.
While rechecking my PMs with the username Smartgunner, I noticed that he's been banned from this forum, I'm assuming for violating rules about advertising on M4C without being a paying member.
Now, both DD and Smartgunner have my e-mails, and I anxiously await the beginning of the business day back in the land of legal beer and wimmens.
I just received a nice e-mail from Jake at Daniel Defense. He offered to find out where my order is, and ensure it gets priority to get shipped, but there is only one snag; I gave him my order number in the initial e-mail, but now he is asking for Smartgunner's PO#.
Does anyone know what Smartgunner's PO# is? I told him that I didn't know, but would research to find out.
Any ideas?
I think you are going to have to contact Tommy for that one...
I just received a nice e-mail from Jake at Daniel Defense. He offered to find out where my order is, and ensure it gets priority to get shipped, but there is only one snag; I gave him my order number in the initial e-mail, but now he is asking for Smartgunner's PO#.
Does anyone know what Smartgunner's PO# is? I told him that I didn't know, but would research to find out.
Any ideas?
Tommy puts in an order number with DD, which is different from the order number he gives you for smartgunner. You need to contact Tommy to get your PO#. If you do talk to DD, would you mind asking if they have their 12" lite rails in stock yet?...quite a few of us are backed up waiting on those. Thanks.
I think you are going to have to contact Tommy for that one...
Tommy puts in an order number with DD, which is different from the order number he gives you for smartgunner. You need to contact Tommy to get your PO#. If you do talk to DD, would you mind asking if they have their 12" lite rails in stock yet?...quite a few of us are backed up waiting on those. Thanks.
Aaaaaand.... I'm stuck. Yet again. My e-mails don't go through to Tommy, and/or he doesn't answer my e-mails.
So, how again did those folks earlier in the thread talk directly to DD about their orders? That's right, Tommy answered their e-mails/talked to them on the phone....
I'll ask DD about the rails if I have the chance.
I have also had a hard time contacting Tommy.I have emailed several times with no response.I find it hard to believe that some people have replied to this thread saying that they have placed an order for an upper through smart gunner and since it was such a good price,they will definitely buy from him again,without even receiving thier order yet.
Singlestack Wonder
12-28-10, 11:31
My experience was as follows:
Ordered an upper with 16" M4 profile barrel, RIS II FSB rail, and BCG on December 2nd. It arrived on my doorstep Dec. 21st. Thus I am pleased with their service and will do business with them again.
It's hard to imagine the # of orders Smartgunner has received with the great pricing offered and it appears some of those orders fell thru the cracks for some folks here. I too would feel the pain if I were still waiting on product and could not get a response in a reasonable amount of time from the vendor. I'm sure Smartgunner will make things right in the end.
I talked to Tommy last week and he said they had the 12" Lite rails back in stock so hopefully DD starts sending those rifles out next.
I have also had a hard time contacting Tommy.I have emailed several times with no response.I find it hard to believe that some people have replied to this thread saying that they have placed an order for an upper through smart gunner and since it was such a good price,they will definitely buy from him again,without even receiving thier order yet.
Kind of a BFO, don't you think? ;)
Still, if they really like the ordering process and enjoy giving people their money (And, oh yeah, Tommy clips your credit card for the full amount at something exceeding the speed of light at the time of order, NOT at the time it ships, btw) it's not up to us to judge what makes others happy....
While I still hope this turns out well for all involved, I see plenty of opportunities for this to get ugly, fast.
My experience was as follows:
Ordered an upper with 16" M4 profile barrel, RIS II FSB rail, and BCG on December 2nd. It arrived on my doorstep Dec. 21st. Thus I am pleased with their service and will do business with them again.
It's hard to imagine the # of orders Smartgunner has received with the great pricing offered and it appears some of those orders fell thru the cracks for some folks here. I too would feel the pain if I were still waiting on product and could not get a response in a reasonable amount of time from the vendor. I'm sure Smartgunner will make things right in the end.
Ordering the 16" barrel, that doesn't require pinning appears to be the trick. I think the pinned option is what tripped up the system, followed by the 12" Lite rails.
If my cash weren't involved, this would be a great experiment in production flow.
eternal24k
12-28-10, 12:27
Aaaaaand.... I'm stuck. Yet again. My e-mails don't go through to Tommy, and/or he doesn't answer my e-mails.
So, how again did those folks earlier in the thread talk directly to DD about their orders? That's right, Tommy answered their e-mails/talked to them on the phone....
I'll ask DD about the rails if I have the chance.
I am correct that you have no phone access, If you like you could PM myself or almost any other member in this forum, I have talked to Tommy on the phone several times.
Kind of a BFO, don't you think? ;)
Still, if they really like the ordering process and enjoy giving people their money (And, oh yeah, Tommy clips your credit card for the full amount at something exceeding the speed of light at the time of order, NOT at the time it ships, btw) it's not up to us to judge what makes others happy....
While I still hope this turns out well for all involved, I see plenty of opportunities for this to get ugly, fast.
I also don't like my cc charged until an item ships, unless it ships within a few days. I guess since Tommy's the middleman he needs to front payment to DD.
I ordered the $499 16" LW middy with 12" omegaX deal on black Friday. I got my upper on 12/23 and my BCH/CH are en route.
I expected a delay because it was mentioned in the thread about the deal on ar15.com so that wasn't a big deal. The delay was longer than the thread said current wait times and that was fine. My problem started with being charged before my upper shipped. This was unexpected. The next problem was the lack of communication via email or on the board he was advertising them on. When the 3 weeks wait I expected had come and gone I sent an email and it was never answered. A week later I sent another email and it wasn't answered. After 4 weeks and 2 days I got a UPS shipment notification. At this point I stopped caring about the lack of communication. Unfortunately when it arrived before Xmas weekend the BCG & CH I ordered were not included with the upper and the packaging had nothing letting me know if they were forgotten or shipping later. On Xmas Eve I decided to call but no one picked up which I thought was reasonable considering the day. When I got home after the holiday I fired off another email asking about it. Fortunately this time it was answered shortly after sending it letting me know that it would ship that day. Sure enough I got a shipping notification later that day.
Now I was never in any hurry to get my upper and with reports of other people getting their orders eventually I was confident that I wasn't getting screwed. If there was any sense of urgency I would have called because people were reporting him answering without a problem.
So long as the BCG & CH arrive without issue it will have all been worth it. I am happy with the product and the price and that is all that really matters to me. I'd do it again if I could use another upper. I hope Smart Gunner can improve upon his service though. There really is no excuse for such poor communication and I can understand why some would prefer to pay more elsewhere that can provide better service.
Did you try contacting Smartgunner or Daniel Defense? Fastest results are achieved by contacting DD directly.
Why do so many feel the need to constantly call/email for updates rather than just wait for their order to ship? The sale/deal is real and its no secret that there is a small wait for the orders to be received since they are not in stock items are are being factory built to order. With such a nice deal being offered I'd assume there have been A LOT of orders placed making it easy to get backed up in production. I never felt the need to waste my time or theirs contacting them about my orders knowing I would only be told the obvious which was that the uppers were still in production.
Of course Tommy could go and hire someone to pick up the slack and answer all those calls but that would be an extra expense which wouldn't be good since we all know expenses get passed along to the customer ;)
ForTehNguyen
12-28-10, 14:56
I just got a shipment notification and tracking number for my order placed on Nov 29
I just got a shipment notification and tracking number for my order placed on Nov 29
What setup did you order?
I just got a shipment notification and tracking number for my order placed on Nov 29
Ordred mine 11/30 so fingers are crossed....
RogerinTPA
12-28-10, 16:17
Got a UPS tracking number from Daniel Defense the other day, miraculously after sending an email about my order from smartgunner two days prior. I should get it tomorrow (finger's crossed). It will be 26 days from order to delivery.
I've ordered a Aimpoint T1 and Larue mount from Smartgunner before, but not a DD upper. Tommy was first class answering all of my questions and the product shipped quicker than I expected. Price was great and service was better. I'd order again.
One bad order in the process of many isn't unheard of. I'm sorry the timing isn't working out for you but Smartgunner is top notch in my book.
I'm glad to know what the wait times are running and that parts aren't always being shipped all together thanks to this thread. I'll still be ordering an upper on Thursday. I like to think mine will be an easy order to fill with a 16" barrel and no handguards, but we'll see. Even if it takes 4 to 6 weeks to get it won't be the end of the world.
I've ordered a Aimpoint T1 and Larue mount from Smartgunner before, but not a DD upper. Tommy was first class answering all of my questions and the product shipped quicker than I expected. Price was great and service was better. I'd order again.
One bad order in the process of many isn't unheard of. I'm sorry the timing isn't working out for you but Smartgunner is top notch in my book.
What set up did you order?
ForTehNguyen
12-28-10, 17:59
What setup did you order?
DD 16" Middy LW with 12" Omega X
tfltackdriver
12-28-10, 20:13
Post from Tommy on arfcom addressing shipping and communications concerns. Says he was banned here for advertising. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=801362&page=6)
I apologize if this isn't kosher, but I figured it would be better for us to have this addressed.
If I get the 14.5" lightweight middy from smargunner, with the Yankee hill flash supressor, is the muzzle device permanently attached such that I don't need a tax stamp or anything (I live in FL)?
Post from Tommy on arfcom addressing shipping and communications concerns. Says he was banned here for advertising. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=801362&page=6)
I apologize if this isn't kosher, but I figured it would be better for us to have this addressed.
Thanks for posting. I e-mailed him requesting the discount code since I'll be needing a BCG with my order. I don't know when I'll hear back though. He's been pretty good about getting back to me in the past.
If anyone else here has the discount code would you be so kind as to PM me with it please?
If I get the 14.5" lightweight middy from smargunner, with the Yankee hill flash supressor, is the muzzle device permanently attached such that I don't need a tax stamp or anything (I live in FL)?
No. SmartGunner is no longer pinning flash hiders/brakes. They can ship the upper to Adco for you to have it pinned, or you can have it shipped to the gunsmith of your choice. Click on the link posted above by tfltackdriver, then scroll way down the page and read the post there by SmartGunner. It explains that.
If I get the 14.5" lightweight middy from smargunner, with the Yankee hill flash supressor, is the muzzle device permanently attached such that I don't need a tax stamp or anything (I live in FL)?
No, you will have to have it sent to ADCO or take it to your local gun smith to have it pin welded. Otherwise you will have an SBR.
Ok well Tommy already got back to me via e-mail with the discount codes. I don't know if it's taboo to post them openly here or not so I won't unless a mod or staff member says it's ok, but if anyone needs them PM me tonight or tomorrow and I'll send them to you.
Interestingly, the blurb on TOS about why he has been banned here has been removed.
Post from Tommy on arfcom addressing shipping and communications concerns. Says he was banned here for advertising. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=801362&page=6)
I apologize if this isn't kosher, but I figured it would be better for us to have this addressed.
Just saw this as well. A post like this would have calmed my nerves completely during my 4 weeks and 2 days of waiting without word. It would have also not gotten me all riled up again when my upper showed without a BCG/CH. Little updates like this so I know what to expect is all I ask. Hopefully it comforts you guys that were still waiting without word or shipping notices.
Just saw this as well. A post like this would have calmed my nerves completely during my 4 weeks and 2 days of waiting without word. It would have also not gotten me all riled up again when my upper showed without a BCG/CH. Little updates like this so I know what to expect is all I ask. Hopefully it comforts you guys that were still waiting without word or shipping notices.
What doesn't comfort me is that it shows a dysfunctional business model, and since I evidently cannot communicate with Tommy, means I'd still be screwed on the BCG/CH issue once the incomplete order showed up.
I was really thinking about ordering from smartgunner about two months ago, but due to a lack of feedback/review of the site i opted to go with BCM....dont regret it at all.
I just didnt want to take a chance with my money. It seems like a legit site now.
eternal24k has kindly offered to call Tommy on my behalf. I really appreciate the effort.
Right now, I'm teetering on just disputing the CC charges and buying either a standard BCM mid-length from Grant for $580 or buying a lightweight BCM BFH from BravoCompanyUSA for $680.
It would've been nice to have purchased a BCM lightweight mid-length and received it back in November when they were "in-stock" for just $10 more than the Smartgunner special.
Kicking self in ass as we speak.
I guess it comes down to what your expectations and understandings are. I knew upfront that Tommy had simply worked out a deal for some special pricing on factory built DD uppers. That said, I knew he and his customers would be at DD's mercy in terms of when the orders would be fulfilled since they are building these orders in addition to everything else that they have going on......I mean they didn't just shut down production to take on the Smartgunner orders. I also realized that once the word got out on how good the deal was via the internet they were gonna get swamped....especially with the option of free FH pinning! I'm pretty sure that neither SG or DD expected this sale to take off like it did, nor did tey expect so many to want the perm pinned FH's which DD wasn't properly equipped to do in mass. Finally, I knew that I'd yet to read of anyone NOT getting their order so I never worried about being out of my money.
Knowing all of that I was faced with the choice to order the 14.5" Lightweight Middy w/12.0 & pinned BC 1.5 from SG at $705 OR I could wait who knows how long for a LW BCM Middy to become available and spend $1,050 to get it in the same configuration. I chose to wait the 4 weeks it took to get my order which wasn't so bad since that extra $350/ea paid for complete lowers to go with my uppers. I have plenty of rifles to shoot already, so the the wait wasn't so bad.
I also chose not to ask for constant updates because I knew I'd receive my order and that they'd only be able to tell me it was still in production. Plus I was sure there'd be plenty of others wasting their time looking for such updates.
I received the two uppers I ordered and have been nothing but happy. To those who are unhappy with your experience I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. Why not just just cancel your orders if you're so unhappy. Let your $ talk for you and just spend that extra money to get all the status updates you want from one of the many other companies out there. Problem solved.
As if to rub salt in the wound, I just sent an e-mail to Grant of G&R Tactical asking about shipping times for a similar setup as I have on order from Smartgunner.
He sends me back an e-mail, 35 minutes later. 1-2 days to ship.
So, I get this heartache for a $10 savings. 10 ****ing dollars.
Words cannot say how idiotic I feel right now. I should've known better.
As if to rub salt in the wound, I just sent an e-mail to Grant of G&R Tactical asking about shipping times for a similar setup as I have on order from Smartgunner.
He sends me back an e-mail, 35 minutes later. 1-2 days to ship.
So, I get this heartache for a $10 savings. 10 ****ing dollars.
Words cannot say how idiotic I feel right now. I should've known better.
What configuration did you order?
Looks like the SG deal is really best for those specifically wanting a 14.5 CHF Lightweight Middy with QuadRail.
Of course the free pinning they initially offered was a huge plus too saving $90 over what BCM charges for the same.
Of course Grant and a few others have some great pricing and service so it doesn't surprise me that you could get something similar for a slight bit more.
ForTehNguyen
12-29-10, 09:01
my config was almost $350 less than the BCM equivalent even with TX sales tax. I still need to get a lower for this one. Communication couldve been better but in my situation I wasnt really in a hurry anyways.
What configuration did you order?
I ordered the stripped, $349 no rails "deal". I ordered 14.5 inch mid-length lightweight with a pinned YHM flashhider, a BCG and a DD 1.5 BUIS.
Dumb question: When did you place your order?
Looks like the SG deal is really best for those specifically wanting a 14.5 CHF Lightweight Middy with QuadRail.
Of course the free pinning they initially offered was a huge plus too saving $90 over what BCM charges for the same.
Of course Grant and a few others have some great pricing and service so it doesn't surprise me that you could get something similar for a slight bit more.
Then why did they offer the "stripped" deal at the same time?
But now, I'm stuck. I have this $570 charged on my credit card, evidently and cannot communicate with Tommy to cancel the order. I've sent e-mails from all my accounts, tried to communicate directly with DD (Now, THEY have dropped me like a hot potato and won't respond to me, due to lack of a PO#)
It's not like I'm "pestering" anyone with updates. Trust me, I just want out at this moment.
Well I would send him one last email, send it to yourself give him 48 hours to respond. If not then call the credit card company and get your money back and order else where.
It really sounds like the deal has soured in your mind so there is no real good reason to continue the business relationship. It's your money spend it where it will make you happy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I ordered the stripped, $349 no rails "deal". I ordered 14.5 inch mid-length lightweight with a pinned YHM flashhider, a BCG and a DD 1.5 BUIS.
Dumb question: When did you place your order?
Then why did they offer the "stripped" deal at the same time?
But now, I'm stuck. I have this $570 charged on my credit card, evidently and cannot communicate with Tommy to cancel the order. I've sent e-mails from all my accounts, tried to communicate directly with DD (Now, THEY have dropped me like a hot potato and won't respond to me, due to lack of a PO#)
It's not like I'm "pestering" anyone with updates. Trust me, I just want out at this moment.
I purchased mine late October and got it late November......I was lucky enough to get in on this before the hoards of others decended upon it and before the free pinning ended :)
Why don't you have a PO#? It was included on the email of your order confirmation.
While the SG deal is a good one, you shouldn't have ordered if you were unable to wait. The savings on a stripped upper was not all that great compared to BCM......although BCM doesn't have LW Middys in stock. Looks like your order may have been right on the cusp of when they decided they were in over their heads with the free pinning service which really got things behind.
Why torture yourself......just call your CC Company and have them cancel the order. They can and will do a chargeback for you.
What doesn't comfort me is that it shows a dysfunctional business model, and since I evidently cannot communicate with Tommy, means I'd still be screwed on the BCG/CH issue once the incomplete order showed up.
I mean no disrespect even though it is going to be impossible for it not to appear that way with what I am about to say but you seem quite set on throwing a fit. I understand being upset but you are behaving like a spoiled child. Neither this or your woe is me act are going to do anything to expedite the process so what is the point? If it is that bad just cancel your order or dispute the charges and move on with your life already.
No business model is perfect. If you only order from perfect business models you must be pretty lonely. Obviously his one man shop wasn't prepared to handle the volume and demand this deal brought in. Neither was the Daniel Defense on the manufacturing side which shows just how big of a hit this deal was. He definitely failed to make up for it with proper communication though. At least he finally owned up to his fault and gave a status update.
I purchased mine late October and got it late November......I was lucky enough to get in on this before the hoards of others decended upon it and before the free pinning ended :)
Why don't you have a PO#? It was included on the email of your order confirmation.
According to folks who know more than me, your order number is not the PO#. Tommy orders the upper using his own, internal tracking number. I guess.
While the SG deal is a good one, you shouldn't have ordered if you were unable to wait. The savings on a stripped upper was not all that great compared to BCM......although BCM doesn't have LW Middys in stock. Looks like your order may have been right on the cusp of when they decided they were in over their heads with the free pinning service which really got things behind.
Why torture yourself......just call your CC Company and have them cancel the order. They can and will do a chargeback for you.
BCM had plenty of LW mid-lengths in stock when I ordered.
It is my understanding that disputing this charge will take a long time. Never having done it before. And, of course, doing it from Afghanistan will be fun. "Press 1 for XXX." "We're sorry, but press 1 for XXX". It will go like that. The call quality from here is not capable of actuating the digital option system that credit card companies use.
I mean no disrespect even though it is going to be impossible for it not to appear that way with what I am about to say but you seem quite set on throwing a fit. I understand being upset but you are behaving like a spoiled child. Neither this or your woe is me act are going to do anything to expedite the process so what is the point? If it is that bad just cancel your order or dispute the charges and move on with your life already.
Try reading some of the thread, please? I cannot cancel the order, and disputing the charges will be a bitch.
No business model is perfect. If you only order from perfect business models you must be pretty lonely. Obviously his one man shop wasn't prepared to handle the volume and demand this deal brought in. Neither was the Daniel Defense on the manufacturing side which shows just how big of a hit this deal was. He definitely failed to make up for it with proper communication though. At least he finally owned up to his fault and gave a status update.
He gave me no such thing. I received one PM from Tommy, and that was a promise to get back with me Monday or Tuesday. He has owned up to no fault at all.
I am not looking for a perfect business model... I am looking for, at minimum, a response. As in e-mail response. It's a very minimal form of customer service. I've offered to compromise, and he has blown me off. And as long as he blows me off, I will continue to bitch to the heavens, until he offers to accept my compromise or cancel my order.
Have we really been acclimated to this low of a level of customer service?
Try reading some of the thread, please? I cannot cancel the order, and disputing the charges will be a bitch.
I've read your posts. You are in Afghanistan and it is going to be a hassle. You have to decide what is more of hassle though.
He gave me no such thing. I received one PM from Tommy, and that was a promise to get back with me Monday or Tuesday. He has owned up to no fault at all.
I am not looking for a perfect business model... I am looking for, at minimum, a response. As in e-mail response. It's a very minimal form of customer service. I've offered to compromise, and he has blown me off. And as long as he blows me off, I will continue to bitch to the heavens, until he offers to accept my compromise or cancel my order.
Have we really been acclimated to this low of a level of customer service?
Did you read his linked post on ar15.com? Or are you expecting a personal apology? He owned up to his fault and apologized there. He also provided a point by point list of what is holding up orders. The pinned flash hider seems to be what is holding yours back. He has offered to ship them unpinned. I realize this involves getting communication through to him and that has been a breakdown of the service. My best advice is to just keep emailing. Likewise 10 emails saying "Cancel and refund Order#XXXX" would be hard to ignore if you prefer to go that route.
I haven't accepted his poor customer service and I am not saying you should either. My point was that ranting and raving here doesn't get you any closer to acquiring your upper or getting your refund. Directing the energy you are putting forth posting here to either direct lines of communication or posting on ar15.com where he actually posts would just be a better use of your time and effort. If you don't mind posting up your order# and a confirmation that you want to cancel your order or have it shipped unpinned I will crosspost it to ar15.com where he seems to be taking time to post now. I understand not wanting to make that information public though.
Actually surprisingly the credit card companies are very multi-national and I doubt it will be that much of a problem.
Every time someone offers a solution that requires you to do anything you seem to have a problem.
If you aren't going to do anything then just sit and wait we've all heard your story. I think you're doing yourself a big disservice and garnering less and less sympathy.
It's simple your options are 1. call the credit card company get your money back, or 2. wait for your rifle. Bitching on here isn't going to fix your problem.
Actually surprisingly the credit card companies are very multi-national and I doubt it will be that much of a problem.
Every time someone offers a solution that requires you to do anything you seem to have a problem.
No ****ing shit. You know what my problem is now? I can't upload the secure code to buy minutes on Skype so I can call the cc company. Every. Single. Thing.
If you aren't going to do anything then just sit and wait we've all heard your story. I think you're doing yourself a big disservice and garnering less and less sympathy.
At this point, I don't give a shit about sympathy. I want Tommy to answer my damned e-mails.
It's simple your options are 1. call the credit card company get your money back, or 2. wait for your rifle. Bitching on here isn't going to fix your problem.
Bitching everywhere will fix something. At the very least, folks my think twice before giving Tommy their money.
Update: I got handed off to a different CSR at DD. He seems to think he can track my order using my order #. He also states it should start with "TM".
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I sent him a copy of my invoice, and nothing from him yet. The first guy never did get back with me.
This is curiously interesting. Between Tommy jizz mitts defending him and the crazy progression of customer service, It is fascinating to watch, kind of like a car wreck...
Army Chief
12-29-10, 11:32
Gentlemen,
You are free to address new or emerging developments in another thread should events warrant it, but three pages is probably enough discussion here to paint a fairly clear picture of what is (or is not) going on with this particular vendor and/or offer.
</thread>
AC
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