View Full Version : Helping a new guy
Hey everyone - I've been doing some research and trying to learn more about the AR-15 platform. Google and sites like this one are helping a lot, but I still have not even opened the cover of this book if you will.
I'll get to the point of my request though instead of boring everyone. I am looking for a quality AR (leaning toward BCM) that is very smooth with limited muzzle climb. I have watched a lot of videos and there are some obvious differences in recoil/muzzle climb in them. Obviously choice of ammo, buffers used, muzzle break/flash suppressor used, etc effect this. I just need some help with many random'ish questions.
Flash suppressor v/s a Muzzle break
Slings
Magazines
Ammo
Probably many more topics LOL
Do any of you use Yahoo messenger? I'd love chat with some knowledgeable folks in order to answer some questions I have. I tend to be a little ADD when it comes to forums/emails and messenger allows me to quickly go down different rabbit trails as my thought process changes. If so I'll PM my ID or you can PM yours. Also that isn't to say replies in this thread are unwelcome by any means. Thanks everyone!
While there are mechanical aids in reducing muzzle rise, a proper shooting stance does wonders.
Welcome to the board, most of what you are seeking is going to be found in threads that are already existing. Certain things like slings and ammo, as well as many others are going to depend on what role you weapon is looking to fill. There is no one answer that will work for everyone.
I agree with Stickman. Some items can aid in reducing recoil but the 223/5.56 is not a heavy round at all so recoil is not bad. Grip and shooting stance matter most
I agree with Stickman. Some items can aid in reducing recoil but the 223/5.56 is not a heavy round at all so recoil is not bad. Grip and shooting stance matter most
+1
Justin
Is it me, or are people overly obsessed with reducing recoil in a round that has very little to start with? It's not like shooting .308.
Is it me, or are people overly obsessed with reducing recoil in a round that has very little to start with? It's not like shooting .308.
No kidding. Just he other week, my friend's wife didn't want to shoot my carbine "because it will kick too much." :sarcastic: Had to start her out with the 22 kit to convince her otherwise.
I agree with Stickman and MrDough, It doesn’t matter about muzzle climb/recoil if you don’t know how to properly handle the weapon, ie stance, grip, sight pic and so on....Learn the basics and proper weapons handling and then worry about the rest later.
I am going to come up with a standard post I'm going to insert into all threads like this. Barring that at this time...
Get a gun. Any gun. Really, I'm not not kidding. Go get an Olympic Arms. Go get a DPMS. Go get a pre-ban Hesse for crying out loud, but go get a damn gun. Buy a Colt (https://policeguns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=16_236&products_id=6615&osCsid=a2qfbo5r49o9cdcskklunvunu1) or a Noveske (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lrb-556&cat=138&page=1&search=&since=&status=) or a BCM (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16LW-Light-weight-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/148.htm) if you can, but buy a damn gun. Buy mags. Buy ammo. Buy mags and ammo. Buy ammo and mags. Get a sling. It doesn't matter which one. Go take a quality, beginner level, fundamentals class. Do it now. Not tomorrow. Stop ****ing around and go do it.
Then come back and we'll talk.
People are wasting so much time and effort worrying about and debating things that they have no way of quantifying. "I want reduced recoil" or "I want light weight" or "I want a shorter barrel" or "what stock/grip/forend should I buy" or "what's the best light for home defense". Stop. Go get a gun, go learn how to operate the gun, go shoot the hell out of the gun, and then lets have an intelligent discussion based on actual use instead of a theoretical discussion based in ignorance.
jklaughrey
12-23-10, 08:30
Rob S has reached his BS patience level. Guess we are getting too much COD crowd type questions.
ehcarl2983
12-23-10, 08:48
All you need to do is read. Read back through the other threads, make a decision, then follow Rob's advice.
On another note can't we start just smashing people for this nonsense. If they're gonna try and waste our time and webspace with bullshit, just tell them to put their glasses on and start looking through old threads??
I am going to come up with a standard post I'm going to insert into all threads like this. Barring that at this time...
Get a gun. Any gun. Really, I'm not not kidding. Go get an Olympic Arms. Go get a DPMS. Go get a pre-ban Hesse for crying out loud, but go get a damn gun. Buy a Colt (https://policeguns.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=16_236&products_id=6615&osCsid=a2qfbo5r49o9cdcskklunvunu1) or a Noveske (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lrb-556&cat=138&page=1&search=&since=&status=) or a BCM (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Mid-16LW-Light-weight-AR15-Bravo-Company-s/148.htm) if you can, but buy a damn gun. Buy mags. Buy ammo. Buy mags and ammo. Buy ammo and mags. Get a sling. It doesn't matter which one. Go take a quality, beginner level, fundamentals class. Do it now. Not tomorrow. Stop ****ing around and go do it.
Then come back and we'll talk.
People are wasting so much time and effort worrying about and debating things that they have no way of quantifying. "I want reduced recoil" or "I want light weight" or "I want a shorter barrel" or "what stock/grip/forend should I buy" or "what's the best light for home defense". Stop. Go get a gun, go learn how to operate the gun, go shoot the hell out of the gun, and then lets have an intelligent discussion based on actual use instead of a theoretical discussion based in ignorance.
Agreed.
Don't want to be a turn-off for the OP but hands on is the only way to figure out what will work for you. A basic AR-15 with iron sights is all that is required to learn to operate the weapon. After a good bit of shooting you may find room for improvement in ergonomics, you'll know whether or not muzzle rise is any kind of issue, you'll have a better idea of what type of sling will work best for you. Until then money spent on anything other than the weapon, magazines, and ammo is money that could have been spent on ammo. Most of your questions will likely be answered for you as you put rounds down range. Discussions abound on each question in the OP so the search function will provide plenty of food for thought.
Without any intent to insult if you're wanting to 'dress up' an AR you can browse the picture thread and see just about everything made for an AR and find plenty of discussion on almost all of the gear you'll see there.
No intent to avoid helping you. The advice Rob provides is the start to answering all of your questions for you. Hope it helps. :)
Rob S has reached his BS patience level. Guess we are getting too much COD crowd type questions.
Total thread jack ahead-
This is something that has been brewing with me for quite some time. I get exposed to a LOT of the shooting community from all ends of the spectrum, and this is something that infects all users regardless of job description. People need to stop basing their decisions off of what they read on the internut and get out and shoot. Provided, of course, that shooting is their true end goal. and this is something that I identified in myself during my AK experiment 2 years ago.
I get emails, about once a week or so, asking what people should buy, how they should outfit the gun, etc. I used to get into long chains of correspondence about what they wanted to do with the gun, what their budget was, etc. and then make suggestions on stocks, grips, forends, sights, optics, lights, slings, etc. This may be the best route for someone giving advice from a sales position but I'm not selling anything and have no financial stake in this. Now I send them the three rifles I linked to above and tell them to go buy one, with ammo and mags, and go get into a class. I suggest Randy Cain Carbine 1 (article in SWAT forthcoming on same) but there are others as well. If they can't afford the Noveske and a class I suggest the BCM and the class. If they can't afford the BCM and the class I suggest a Spike's and the class. The class is the priority!
I usually don't hear back from many of these people. I take that as a sign that I didn't offer the advice they wanted to hear. But, it's the advice I wish someone would have put in a sock full of quarters and beat me with until I listened when I was starting out.
Is it me, or are people overly obsessed with reducing recoil in a round that has very little to start with? It's not like shooting .308.
When your shooting experience it entirely from Halo 7 or some ****ing video game, the .223 has a real work "kick" to it!
Poor Rob! LOL.
I feel bad for you and the other experience people who constantly get asked all these dumb questions.
That being said should I buy a...... :sarcastic:
Seriously though does anyone have a link to the "Shoot the gun" thread that was started some months ago. It said essentially what Rob just did.
Get a gun, shoot the gun, then you will figure out what you need.
Seriously though does anyone have a link to the "Shoot the gun" thread that was started some months ago. It said essentially what Rob just did.
.
This one?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28658
This one?
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=28658
Yes sir, thank you.
Poor Rob! LOL.
I feel bad for you and the other experience people who constantly get asked all these dumb questions.
Don't. If we didn't want it we wouldn't be here. I do not want to give the impression that I or others are unwilling to help. We want to help, we really, really do. and most of us are posting from experience gained from making our own mistakes and wasting our own money. If I give off the impression of being overly annoyed sometimes just remember that I, and others, are still here and willing to help where we can and that says something.
jklaughrey
12-23-10, 09:53
I think your Dad and my Dad should have talked, cuz I got smacked with that sock of quarters on a regular basis as a kid to make better decisions or make me more aware.:laugh:
First - Thanks for the information and you guys are right that hands on time with the rifle can't be replaced. Also I appreciate that you guys are and do want to help.
Second - I tend to extensively research my purchases in order to avoid investing additional time/frustration/money at a later date due to limited knowledge on the subject. I wanted to start drawing on the collective to help me do just that. I am aware, not first hand, that recoil/muzzle climb with the AR isn't a real issue, but that doesn't mean that a few minutes with someone knowledgeable wouldn't provide some incite and help a guy out. Such as some of the mechanical means to reduce the already low muzzle climb even further.
Thankfully my shooting experience isn't limited to just Halo or CoD, but I have none with the the AR so again I understand the hands on advice. The looks of the rifle are not of concern to me, but the function/reliability/peace of mind from an informed decision is however. I will continue to read the forums appreciate all of your help.
Hey everyone - I've been doing some research and trying to learn more about the AR-15 platform. Google and sites like this one are helping a lot, but I still have not even opened the cover of this book if you will.
I'll get to the point of my request though instead of boring everyone. I am looking for a quality AR (leaning toward BCM) that is very smooth with limited muzzle climb. I have watched a lot of videos and there are some obvious differences in recoil/muzzle climb in them. Obviously choice of ammo, buffers used, muzzle break/flash suppressor used, etc effect this. I just need some help with many random'ish questions.
Flash suppressor v/s a Muzzle break
Slings
Magazines
Ammo
Probably many more topics LOL
Do any of you use Yahoo messenger? I'd love chat with some knowledgeable folks in order to answer some questions I have. I tend to be a little ADD when it comes to forums/emails and messenger allows me to quickly go down different rabbit trails as my thought process changes. If so I'll PM my ID or you can PM yours. Also that isn't to say replies in this thread are unwelcome by any means. Thanks everyone!
I second the "get a gun" crowd....plus, I would recommend you read the "stickies" in each forum you're interested in...and use the search function...and only post when needed. I've been shooting the AR platform regularly for the last 12 years, but it was only since I joined here did I "learn". Don't feel like you're being shut down--I don't post here much, but I read often. There are a lot of experts here from hardware to employment...as I mention on another forum I frequent, "read more, post less"....
Also, I would check out the Training threads....
Second - I tend to extensively research my purchases in order to avoid investing additional time/frustration/money at a later date due to limited knowledge on the subject. I wanted to start drawing on the collective to help me do just that.
As a fellow obsessive researcher I'm going to tell you something you don't want to hear:
This doesn't work. It can't. It never will. Not with something as complex and personal as a firearm, especially the . The time you are wasting researching the purchase would be better spent on the range. I am telling you this as someone who has made this mistake over and over and over again. No amount of internet research will trump actual range time and good instruction. None. Ever. It can't.
I will not be surprised, hurt, or offended, if you don't take me advice. In fact I fully expect that you will not. Not many people seem to these days. When I dolled out "buy this and that and the other thing" people followed the advice all the time. Now that I tell them "buy a high quality basic gun and go get familiar with it", not so much. So you won't surprise me when you do the same.
but I won't stop reiterating what I said.
Is it me, or are people overly obsessed with reducing recoil in a round that has very little to start with? It's not like shooting .308.
It's all about comfort. I don't shoot often and don't want to spend much money on ammo or training. I just like black rifles and want them to be as pleasant as possible when I finally do get to the range. I want an equipment solution to a training problem.
A BCM 14.5" LW middy with a Battlecomp 1.5 and an ACE entry stock was the answer for me because it's smooth and it fits. It doesn't hurt that I get to feel good about having a decent rifle if I ever decide to take shooting seriously.
Questions like the OP keep popping up here because M4C has the best info and the guys like me who ask the silly, easily researchable questions are looking for easy answers just like they are looking for an equipment solution to a training problem. Did I mention we want it on a budget too? That would be the same budget that doesn't allow for proper training or a decent supply of ammo.
The first time my sister and her friends shot my AR, their shoulder started to hurt after a few shots. Albeit, she and her friends have never shot a rifle before so I got one of those rubber butt pads for the standard stock so they would have an enjoyable time the next time. If she thought the AR was bad, she shouldn't try the SKS :sarcastic:. That is probably the only thing I would recommend to reduce felt recoil and it's cheap so like it or not, it's easily removable.
Recoil is like pain, it's subjective. Why spend a whole bunch of money from the start based off what people say without truly knowing yourself? For all you know, all that stuff like muzzle brakes, piston buffers, etc. would have made no difference to your perception of recoil without the stuff; you'll never know because your rifle was modded from the start. Start with a plane Jane rifle and try shooting and experimenting from there
Recoil is like pain, it's subjective. Why spend a whole bunch of money from the start based off what people say without truly knowing yourself?
Living in a ban state, I have to have the muzzle device permed so trial and error isn't much of an option.
Living in a ban state, I have to have the muzzle device permed so trial and error isn't much of an option.
You could have a gunsmith remove it for you or do it yourself if you know how. I understand it would cost more but what if you did not like the muzzle device? You would run into a similar situation and take a loss for the more expensive muzzle brake
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