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View Full Version : Glucosomine Chondroiton...does it really work?



300WM
12-23-10, 17:59
I am getting ready to hit the fifth installment of decades and was wondering if anyone is using Glucosomine Chondroiton with any significant results?

It has only been in the last few years that I am feeling some tenderness in my joints and am even at the point where I have some mild concern for "how long before my joints really start giving me trouble."

I realize I was hard on my joints in my youth doing XGames style BMX stuff and then transitioning into endurance style motorcycle racing, while at the same time, trying to keep a well built physique, through bodybuilding; all of which has me here with this question.

I continue to workout with weights, and feel the best during my first two months of lifting after a three month layoff for rest (3 mos off / 9 on), but the last couple of years has me getting sore in the joints and the soreness not really going away like it used to. My Dr. does not believe I have arthritis, and xrays show I have a decent cartilage. I have started a GC run and am into the second month of it. I did the loading amount that was recommended and have been faithful in this regimine. The deal is this; I am not feeling any different, yet. Is anyone using GC and getting any positive results from it? The crap is expensive as heck, and if it is not really helping anyone else, I'll just take Advil and use the GC money for ammo.

Hmac
12-23-10, 18:48
There isn't a shred of peer-reviewed evidence to indicate that glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate has any beneficial effect whatsoever on cartilage. The cartilage of your joints is either gone or it's not...and if it is, it's never coming back. Sorry.

Heavy Metal
12-23-10, 18:56
I believe it will help you keep it. I started taking it 15 years ago when my knees started giving me a bit of crap and they have felt a %1000 better since then. No more knee problems.

The other thing that is a huge help is Omega 3 capsules. The also help the joints feel better too.

300WM
12-23-10, 20:05
There isn't a shred of peer-reviewed evidence to indicate that glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate has any beneficial effect whatsoever on cartilage. The cartilage of your joints is either gone or it's not...and if it is, it's never coming back. Sorry.

Yea, I've read some things where people took placebos and Glucosomine and pretty much reported the same results. I wonder if it has anything to do with how an individual absorbs it or utilizes it as opposed to someone else. I don't disagree with you in that once you put some serious wear on your joints, it is a lost cause. Otherwise, we wouldn't need artificial joint replacements. But, I figured I would give it a try, just in case.

300WM
12-23-10, 20:08
I believe it will help you keep it. I started taking it 15 years ago when my knees started giving me a bit of crap and they have felt a %1000 better since then. No more knee problems.

The other thing that is a huge help is Omega 3 capsules. The also help the joints feel better too.

I'm definitely down with the Omega 3's. I would probably have to inject WD40 into my knees and elbows if it wasn't for O3's.

Hmac
12-23-10, 21:29
I don't disagree with you in that once you put some serious wear on your joints, it is a lost cause. Otherwise, we wouldn't need artificial joint replacements. But, I figured I would give it a try, just in case.

It won't help you - it's no more helpful for joints than omega-3 fatty acids, but it won't hurt you either, so if you can afford it and you can think it helps you, you should do it.

YVK
12-23-10, 22:05
Last time I looked at literature was some 5 or more years ago, and chondroitine regimens were similar to moderately dosed NSAID regimens in terms of pain reduction. That had led to some docs recommending using chondroitine for DJD in patients who can't take nonsteroidal non-narcotic pain killers. There was no evidence on cartilage preservation, let alone regeneration.

Robb Jensen
12-23-10, 22:37
I take it and Omega 3s daily and yes I have noticed that my joints don't hurt as much especially my knees that were heavily damaged playing football and at UPS. If I forget for a few days I get a reminder by stiffness and pain.

Hmac
12-24-10, 07:42
Last time I looked at literature was some 5 or more years ago, and chondroitine regimens were similar to moderately dosed NSAID regimens in terms of pain reduction. That had led to some docs recommending using chondroitine for DJD in patients who can't take nonsteroidal non-narcotic pain killers. There was no evidence on cartilage preservation, let alone regeneration.I looked at this carefully about 3 years ago too because I'd been taking glucosamine/CS for years and my knees weren't any better. The literature in two large randomized controlled trials showed that chondroitin, omega-3, and even Synvisc joint injection was no better than placebo. The placebo effect can be very powerful for some people but it did nothing for me.

Anyway, my new knees are about 10 months old. I did two defensive handgun courses and a carbine course last summer as well as several of our bi-weekly Tac Team training exercises. Once that knee joint gets to a certain point, I'd choose stainless steel and UHMW polyethylene over chondroitin any time.

Vic303
12-24-10, 09:00
The basal joint degradation in both thumbs has pained me far less this winter since I started taking G/C/MSM.

There is also a real world study at KSU vet school on fish oil supplements in arthritic dogs. The dogs on the fish oil supplements had singificantly improved ROM and ease of movement.

No placebo effect in dogs.

Hmac
12-24-10, 09:24
Like I said...if you think it works for you, you should use it.

$CashMoney$
12-24-10, 09:37
I'm no doc, that's for sure. Nor have I read anything truly scientific that says that it will work, but I still take it for mild arthritis in an elbow that I broke about 20 years ago and for putting off an inevitable shoulder surgery. I can still do crossfit or Gym Jones as long as I'm taking it and I have no serious pain. Once I stop taking it both joints will hurt to the point of seriously limited movement.

I have had doctors tell me that people say it works, but I am not arguing that there is scientific evidence. Nor do I think that it will regenerate any damaged tissue. I do think that it may prolong the inevitable, however.

But, if it's not working for you, then stop wasting money on it and maybe use a strong anti-inflammatory or something.

jmoore
12-24-10, 13:47
There is also a real world study at KSU vet school on fish oil supplements in arthritic dogs. The dogs on the fish oil supplements had singificantly improved ROM and ease of movement.

No placebo effect in dogs.

Had great luck with GC in one of our dogs, too. However, dogs are physiologically different than humans in terms of bioavailibility of drugs. Controlled studies show no significant human benefit from GC (aside from placebo :)

john

PS - My wife is a veterinary toxicologist, and I teach pathophysiology - so we've checked into this quite a bit, as I'm pushing 60 and would love to find something that works on joints:)

300WM
12-24-10, 16:31
I looked at this carefully about 3 years ago too because I'd been taking glucosamine/CS for years and my knees weren't any better. The literature in two large randomized controlled trials showed that chondroitin, omega-3, and even Synvisc joint injection was no better than placebo. The placebo effect can be very powerful for some people but it did nothing for me.

Anyway, my new knees are about 10 months old. I did two defensive handgun courses and a carbine course last summer as well as several of our bi-weekly Tac Team training exercises. Once that knee joint gets to a certain point, I'd choose stainless steel and UHMW polyethylene over chondroitin any time.

Since you are a good candidate for this question (still working the knees), what was your recovery time from op to where you could walk fairly easily?

Hmac
12-24-10, 16:39
Since you are a good candidate for this question (still working the knees), what was your recovery time from op to where you could walk fairly easily?I ditched the walker for a cane after about a week, but my operation was a muscle-sparing (sub-vastis) unicompartmental replacment on both. The recovery from that operation is typically shorter. I was back at work after 3 weeks, but it took 3 months before I had the quadriceps strength for water skiing.

luckybychoice
12-24-10, 16:57
i took GC for about 4months,with no real affect,i'm 53,still lift weights and take ibuprofin,and my joints ache but i chalk it up to my mispent youth and getting older,i also work out with a heavy bag and every joint in my fingers feel it."Getting old ain't for pussies",thats what a couple old timers told me a few years ago.

FMJ556
12-24-10, 18:05
There have been some studies indicating that turmeric (curcumin) has anti-inflammatory effects:
Can Turmeric Relieve Pain? One Doctor's Opinion (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1910028,00.html)

Hmac
12-24-10, 19:11
There have been some studies indicating that turmeric (curcumin) has anti-inflammatory effects:
Can Turmeric Relieve Pain? One Doctor's Opinion (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1910028,00.html)

"One doctor's opinion" doesn't mean shit. Theoretical computer modeling doesn't mean shit. Experiments in the lab with Norwegian rats don't mean shit.

Give me a randomized, prospective, controlled, double-blinded trial on human beings and we'll talk. Otherwise, it's nothing but anecdote and junk science, and Medicine doesn't work that way.

FMJ556
12-24-10, 21:41
Ok... I know the gold standard for the effectiveness of a medication a double blind cross-over study etc etc. But you need to realize this: no big pharmaceutical company is ever going to expend the money and resources to test a nutraceutical compound that they cannot patent. There is no benefit for them to release results of something that the public can buy for cheap.

The University of Mississippi Medical Center got a patent for the "use of turmeric in wound healing." This patent also granted them the exclusive right to sell and distribute turmeric. This patent was later struck down. That was pretty much killed any interest a pharma company would have in investigating such natural compounds.

Various drugs over the years have been derived from anecdotal evidence , example : aspirin was extracted from pine bark which was used in folk medicine.

Now coming back to double blind research on turmeric:


A double-blind crossover study in patients with "definite" rheumatoid arthritis compared the antirheumatic activity of curcumin (1200 mg/day) with phenylbutazone, a corticosteroids drug (300 mg/day). The curcumin therapy resulted in "significant" improvements over corticosteroids.
link (http://curcumin-turmeric.net/arthritis.html)

There are other studies mentioned in the link above.

ICANHITHIMMAN
12-24-10, 22:43
Its a scam will not work.

Only thing proven to reverse the loss of cartalage is a drug prescribed for bone loss called FORTAIO you have to inject it every day for 6 months and it will cost you 3k.

Hmac
12-24-10, 23:29
Various drugs over the years have been derived from anecdotal evidence , example : aspirin was extracted from pine bark which was used in folk medicine.


That was 1897.

FMJ556
12-24-10, 23:54
One of the biggest money makers for the pharma industry, Lovastatin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovastatin) was isolated from natural sources in the 1980s.

My point is there is some value in natural supplements. But it requires careful study to find the ones that do have scientific validation. You are just not going to find large clinical studies if that is your sole basis for the efficacy of such products. I use turmeric supplements for soreness and pain and it does seem to work for me. It can however cause stomach upsets for some people.

300WM
12-25-10, 11:57
I ditched the walker for a cane after about a week, but my operation was a muscle-sparing (sub-vastis) unicompartmental replacment on both. The recovery from that operation is typically shorter. I was back at work after 3 weeks, but it took 3 months before I had the quadriceps strength for water skiing.

That is good to know. Good to know you can still water ski. It is one of our favorite pasttimes here in FL.

Maybe I expect too much, too soon. Contrary to all of the literature on the matter, I will do a 6mo. run and see how it is, then. If it does not help by then, it's back to asprin and ibuprofen.