View Full Version : Nearly ¼ of applicants fail ASVB
A sorry state when you consider that a person needs a H.S. diploma before they can take the test.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/21/apnewsbreak-percent-pass-military-exam/
Nearly one-fourth of the students who try to join the U.S. Army fail its entrance exam, painting a grim picture of an education system that produces graduates who can't answer basic math, science and reading questions, according to a new study released Tuesday.
I find this even more disturbing.
The military exam results are also worrisome because the test is given to a limited pool of people: Pentagon data shows that 75 percent of those aged 17 to 24 don't even qualify to take the test because they are physically unfit, have a criminal record or didn't graduate high school.
GermanSynergy
12-23-10, 23:55
How in the hell do you fail the ASVAB?
A sorry state when you consider that a person needs a H.S. diploma before they can take the test.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/21/apnewsbreak-percent-pass-military-exam/
I find this even more disturbing.
How in the hell do you fail the ASVAB?
Misspell your name?
I will say the math part tripped me up, but I wasn't fresh out of high school and hadn't done algebra in some time, forgot math had letters :D
How in the hell do you fail the ASVAB?
These are the people who Jay Leno interviews for his man on the street interviews who can't state the major combatants in WWII, don't know which continents big countries like Germany and China are in, etc.
You gear your entire education system to teach to the lowest common denominator and don't be surprised when the average student performs at the level of the dumb kid that has been slowing down the class.
I find this even more disturbing.
I see programs offering government run fat camps and expungement/pardon for non violent offenders in our future.
If the military is going to be used for social experiments involving homosexuals and illegal aliens why not this?
Heartland Hawk
12-24-10, 07:35
Not that this is any explanation, but thousands of high school seniors take the ASVAB every year, so it is not a requirement to have a H.S. Diploma. By then though, if they can't pass that test its too late anyway...
This is sad, but not surprising. I bet a lot of kids can't understand the directions either. Reading, toys and games involving mechanics have been replaced by tv and video games for many children.
Not that this is any explanation, but thousands of high school seniors take the ASVAB every year, so it is not a requirement to have a H.S. Diploma. By then though, if they can't pass that test its too late anyway...
It isn't a requirement to take the test. You have to have a H.S. degree to join. We can't have an Army full of idiots. After all, Darwin's theory can be pretty vicious on the battlefield.
If 1/4 of the kids taking the test fail I wonder what a breakdown of the passing scores look like. I remember when I took the ASVAB the dude across from me was wigging the **** out pulling his hair, grunting, and breathing heavily. He ended up scoring a 33 and was extremely happy to get it. That scene stuck in my mind for whatever reason.
RogerinTPA
12-24-10, 10:42
Doesn't surprise me at all with our current education system and the young folks I come across. I'm surprised they don't have lumps on their heads from walking into walls. Reminds of that movie "Idiocracy" where a guy wakes up in the future and finds that society has been dumbed down.
Doesn't surprise me at all with our current education system and the young folks I come across. I'm surprised they don't have lumps on their heads from walking into walls. Reminds of that movie "Idiocracy" where a guy wakes up in the future and finds that society has been dumbed down.
I wanted to post about that movie but I couldn't remember the title.
variablebinary
12-24-10, 12:04
Retention and recruiting goals are still very good, so I wouldn't be too concerned.
Wow. And to think I scored a 97 AFQT on it back in 2002. Guess I'm overly qualified... lol.
Welcome to Costco, I love you.
Honestly, I would like to see the military be more exclusive. Right now today, I would like to fire about half of the Regular Army.
People applying for LEO and Fire Dept jobs study hard for the test and work out in preparation for the physical fitness test that most depts have. Kids thinking about joining the military often take the ASVAB just to get out of a half day of school. Their job prospects are usually - the military, flipping burgers, or throwing dice in the alley. I would love to have a vastly more professional force.
Quiet-Matt
12-24-10, 15:32
If they could text their answers those scores would go up. :rolleyes:
i'm so glad we homeschool.
Collegefour
12-24-10, 20:06
Wow. And to think I scored a 97 AFQT on it back in 2002. Guess I'm overly qualified... lol.
Me too. I scored a 94 on the ASVAB back in 1986. I wonder if the test has changed much since then.....
Self inflicted gunshot wound.
The military should take everybody, no tests, no screening, just verify you are who you say you are and don't have some communicable disease, 4yrs probation past the signature on the dotted line.
If you can't hack it in training, you can get fired.
If you can't hack the work, you can get fired.
No age limits, no asthma limits, no back injury limits, no psycho limits, or even malformed genitalia limits... but no accommodations will be offered either. If you can do the job with no education, one eye and a peg leg better than some college hipster flunky with two OEM legs and eyes, out-****ing-standing, your country needs you doing the crap emo's won't do at $2 an hour in some country that ends in "stan".
Outlander Systems
12-25-10, 07:32
No age limits, no asthma limits, no back injury limits, no psycho limits, or even malformed genitalia limits... but no accommodations will be offered either. If you can do the job with no education, one eye and a peg leg better than some college hipster flunky with two OEM legs and eyes, out-****ing-standing, your country needs you doing the crap emo's won't do at $2 an hour in some country that ends in "stan".
This is out-****ing-standing!
ICANHITHIMMAN
12-25-10, 09:23
You know a passing ASVAB score is not req if they start the draft!
The first time I took it the girl behind me got an 18.
Boy I tought I was an idioit with the score I got. I took the test again 4 years later. I thought I was smarter given all I had learned, in my first 4 years of enlistment. Turns out I'm not I got the exact same score:sarcastic:
How do you fail the ASVAB? Easy. The scale is constantly moving. The base score is a percentage score of all test takers. If I remember correctly I scored an 88 on that. Then you have another composite score which I can't recall the name of, then your line scores which correlate to specific career fields.
Currently I think 36 is the minimum score the branches are accepting. FWIW the USMC, USAF, and USN, traditionally require higher scores than the Army. The level being acceptable to enlist is always changing based on needs, or end strength.
2 years ago the Army was needing bodies. They were accepting personnel with a 19, yep that's right, 19. They were also waiving felonies. Things change. I've got a nephew that scored a 94 and can't join currently because of 2 public intox arrests, and 3 traffic tickets. It is all about end strength, nothing more. Needs of the service.
Now combine the above with the fact that a large percentage of our young people are dumb shits that eat too much, smoke dope, and have no desire to serve anything other than themselves and you have your answers.
RogerinTPA
12-25-10, 09:55
Self inflicted gunshot wound.
The military should take everybody, no tests, no screening, just verify you are who you say you are and don't have some communicable disease, 4yrs probation past the signature on the dotted line.
If you can't hack it in training, you can get fired.
If you can't hack the work, you can get fired.
No age limits, no asthma limits, no back injury limits, no psycho limits, or even malformed genitalia limits... but no accommodations will be offered either. If you can do the job with no education, one eye and a peg leg better than some college hipster flunky with two OEM legs and eyes, out-****ing-standing, your country needs you doing the crap emo's won't do at $2 an hour in some country that ends in "stan".
Ehhh.....the ASVAB is designed to perform a screening process based on intelligence and aptitude. The ASVAB and selection process for a particular MOS is already skewed. How many Mil types have seen others in their unit who flat out should be there? It would be worse x 10, if they didn't have a selection and screening process. If the Mil were to drop it, the cost in shipping, training, money wasted, sapping resources of people who failed, would be insurmountable.
Magic_Salad0892
12-26-10, 04:41
Makes me glad I was homeschooled when I was a kid.
This says it all in terms of homeschooling.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b2/Homeschool_academic_scores.jpg
Heartland Hawk
12-26-10, 07:37
I took the ASVAB in 1983. I remember thinking I couldn't beleive how easy it was. I was mainly interested in my GT (General Technical score) because that was one of the main scores to get into flight school. it's a combination of a few different categories - I can't recall which ones. I got a 150.:D
I took the ASVAB in 1983. I remember thinking I couldn't beleive how easy it was. I was mainly interested in my GT (General Technical score) because that was one of the main scores to get into flight school. it's a combination of a few different categories - I can't recall which ones. I got a 150.:D
150 is impressive but it's an apples to oranges scoring system. The first is a percentile, can't go above 100 the other would be more like an IQ test for certain fields. Still, impressive.:cool:
Somehow this news doesn't surprise me. I've known several guys both on Active Duty and in the National Guard that I know got a shit score on the ASVAB. These guys were definately CAT IIIs. I remember taking mine in 1989 and got a 78 overall. I was told at the time that was an exceptionally good score and could do whatever I wanted. I've talked to different guys that have been on recruiting duty and I've been given to believe the ASVAB would change every so often and that the top score has varied over the years. Some of the numbers I've heard thrown around were 80 on the low end and as high as 170 for the high end. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but they believed it for fact.
I have my own opinion about the ASVAB. I scored pretty low (barely passing) and was able to take a jet engine mechanic job. Though I scored low, I managed to graduate as the "Top Graduate" in my class plus I was selected for "Below the Zone" (got E-4 six months early) plus numerous awards in my career field. Does the test always work? in my opinion, no.
I did retake the test this year and scored in the 90s though:sarcastic:.
If 1/4 of the kids taking the test fail I wonder what a breakdown of the passing scores look like. I remember when I took the ASVAB the dude across from me was wigging the **** out pulling his hair, grunting, and breathing heavily. He ended up scoring a 33 and was extremely happy to get it. That scene stuck in my mind for whatever reason.
hmm... a little disturbing that your life could depend on someone like that.
who knows maybe he's a real good shot. :confused:
Considering the mental and physical state of my wife's cousin who just signed up for the Army, and is at Ft. Knox for training, this doesn't surprise me at all... Think about the people that just pass and that are signing up...
Thomas M-4
12-26-10, 12:41
Back in 96' my recruiter told me the same thing 1/4 don't pass the test.
variablebinary
12-26-10, 15:06
Back in 96' my recruiter told me the same thing 1/4 don't pass the test.
Historically, it has probably always been 1/4 failure rate, but it makes for great headlines if you want the DOE to get another billion dollars to help children of illegals and inner city kids that think being a dumb ass is fashionable.
Either way, its only an issue if we start missing our goals, and that is not the case. There are still quite a few guys being denied reenlistment because they are not needed.
GermanSynergy
12-26-10, 15:16
Good to hear they're being a bit more selective about re-enlistment.
We had some problem NCO's that were shitbirds, but during the re-up spiel given by the BN CDR they were automatically "great NCOs", etc. :sarcastic::rolleyes:
Historically, it has probably always been 1/4 failure rate, but it makes for great headlines if you want the DOE to get another billion dollars to help children of illegals and inner city kids that think being a dumb ass is fashionable.
Either way, its only an issue if we start missing our goals, and that is not the case. There are still quite a few guys being denied reenlistment because they are not needed.
The first is a percentile, can't go above 100 I think 99, 100 would put you above yourself. :p
People read to much into their scores, if you score a 50 congrats you're average, 51, congrats you're above average. :sarcastic:
variablebinary
12-26-10, 18:32
The GT score is the score we should be worrying about. That determines what jobs you qualify for.
My recruiter made sure to put emphasis on what I needed in terms of GT.
variablebinary
12-27-10, 03:58
Because this story stinks to high shit, and has the aroma of DOE and inner cities trying to leech for more "education" funding, I asked around tonight and got the following response from a friend
The ASVAB AFQT is an amalgamated score comprised of sub categories that make up the ASVAB exam.
The AFQT score has a grade curve for the entire population. The result of this is 25% of the population gets a score of 25% or below at all times. The Army in particular requires a 31%, translating to 30% of all test takers failing the Army exam at all times.
This is why we look at things like GT score to determine which MOS’s a person can apply for.
Take a look at the following for more information
The ASVAB subtests for determining the composites have been or currently are as follows:
General Science (GS),
Arithmetic Reasoning (AR),
Word Knowledge (WK),
Paragraph Comprehension (PC),
Numerical Operations (NO),
Coding Speed (CS),
Auto and Shop Information (AS),
Mathematics Knowledge (MK),
Mechanical Comprehension (MC),
Electronics Information (EI), and
Sum of Word Knowledge and Paragraph Comprehension, scaled (VE).
The Army scoring for helping us determine MOS eligibility is:
CL -Clerical-VE+AR+MK
CO -Combat-AR+CS+AS+MC
EL -Electronics-GS+AR+MK+EI
FA -Field Artillery-AR+CS+MK+MC
GM- General Maintenance-GS+AS+MK+EI
GT- General Technical-VE+AR
MM- Mechanical Maintenance-NO+AS+MC+EI
OF- Operators and Food-VE+NO+AS+MC
SC - Surveillance and Communications-VE+AR+AS+MC
ST- Skilled Technical-GS+VE+MK+MC
Because this story stinks to high shit, and has the aroma of DOE and inner cities trying to leech for more "education" funding, I asked around tonight and got the following response from a friend
LOL, ok so 1/4 of the people who take it fail by design... I wonder if we wrote Fox News if they would put up a correction?
It's worth noting that this is NOT in fact the "ASVAB" it is a measured component of the ASVAB known as the AFQT which takes the multiples scores from 4 areas plugs them into a formula to determine a raw score and then spits out a "percentile" (the two-digit score).
You can't "fail" the ASVAB. You can fail to attain minimum AFQT score required for enlistment in a particular branch.
That a quarter do miserably is no surprise to me as the AFQT takes the kind of crap everyone should know by the time they get into high school. Reading comprehension, basic math skills (we aren't talking calculus or even algebra here), vocabulary, and "math knowledge" (which does 'sorta' involve algebra). Teachers' unions and politicians have seen fit to ensure that students are well-versed in diversity an sensitivity, and that retards (yeah, retards) are in the same classes with normal educable students.
The wikipedia page actually has a decent explanation of the whole thing, for everyone's information.
BTW, 99. ;)
Heartland Hawk
12-27-10, 16:03
I agree. As I understood it, your score (e.g. 50, or 75 or whatever) was a representation of where you ranked out of all the other people in the US taking the test. So if you scored a 80%, that just meant that you did better than 80% of the people that took the test for that year (percentile). Then you had the breakdown of sections like posted above, and different scores were a combination of those sections. Is the percentile approach how it still works?
This thread really reminds me of:
http://betroit.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/fail-thats-why-you-always-get-picked-last-fatty.png
Ummmm of course they do. The test is a scaled ranking, not a numerical absolute. So by design 1/4 of the applicants will be in the bottom 25% and ineligible to enlist.
It says nothing whatsoever about the actual knowledge or mental capacity of the test takers. If the best you do is get half the questions right, and by chance that is the best everyone else who took the test was able to do, well guess what - you are still going to be in the top percentile, even though numerically you only got a 50%.
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