View Full Version : I bet we will see a lawsuit over this.
Probably the guy violated policy, but it seems he has a point about the airplane service people.
http://www.news10.net/news/article.aspx?storyid=113529&provider=top&catid=188
SACRAMENTO, CA - An airline pilot is being disciplined by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) for posting video on YouTube pointing out what he believes are serious flaws in airport security.
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Three days after he posted a series of six video clips recorded with a cell phone camera at San Francisco International Airport, four federal air marshals and two sheriff's deputies arrived at his house to confiscate his federally-issued firearm.
At the same time as the federal marshals took the pilot's gun, a deputy sheriff asked him to surrender his state-issued permit to carry a concealed weapon.
A follow-up letter from the sheriff's department said the CCW permit would be reevaluated following the outcome of the federal investigation.
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The pilot's attorney, Don Werno of Santa Ana, said he believed the federal government sent six people to the house to send a message.
"And the message was you've angered us by telling the truth and by showing America that there are major security problems despite the fact that we've spent billions of dollars allegedly to improve airline safety," Werno said.
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I'm sure that he signed some sort of confidential agreement in order to work in the airport and carry a weapon, so most likely he will lose any lawsuit presented before a Federal judge in regard to the TSA's actions. It's a shame, as I would like to see the TSA disbanded or at least severely neutered.
You may be right, but I wonder if the info he revealed is actually confidential, or are the doors used by maintenance personnel open to public view. In any event, the pilot may be visited a few more times before this is over.
There are many cases of employees in all professions being punished for speaking out.
Wouldn't you say that the reason for the punishment is to prevent others from doing the same, because the management of these organizations may be mishandling funds (into their pockets) and don't want any scrutiny?
Also I heard that the sherriff took away his ccw? That's what you get for living in a may issue state. Police don't like you? They take away your rights.
Heartland Hawk
12-24-10, 14:23
He's an airline pilot. I'm pretty sure he doesn't "Work" in the airport, and he didn't sign any non-disclosure form.
You may be right, but I wonder if the info he revealed is actually confidential, or are the doors used by maintenance personnel open to public view. In any event, the pilot may be visited a few more times before this is over.
I've seen those card swipe doors in plain view in public areas of airports all over the country. All it takes is a badge to swipe and you're through.
Unless the pilot signed some kind of non-disclosure agreement or secrecy oath, his You Tube video ought to be protected under the 1st Amendment.
As a FFDO he did sign a non-disclosure agreement. I deal with these Jackasses everday and know what a bunch af Whinners they are. Just because they have a Strong Union that has lots of Pull in Washington means he can go posting info all over the internet that our ememys can use to harm us.
Well I for one would like to thank the guy for going out of his way to endanger everyone who flys by choosing to post "the answers to the test" on youtube for all to see rather than working with airport security to fix the issues.
my dad has always said the ramp rats never pass through anything and are the danger ?
nothing new here I guess but the fact they need to check and screen the ramp people down and make them go through screening on the way out since a lot of theft is from them ! is old news ?
I deal with these Jackasses everday and know what a bunch af Whinners they are. Just because they have a Strong Union that has lots of Pull in Washington means he can go posting info all over the internet that our ememys can use to harm us.
If that whiny pilot saw it you can bet those who want to harm us see it too. How dumb do you think they are?
I deal with these Jackasses everday and know what a bunch af Whinners they are. Just because they have a Strong Union that has lots of Pull in Washington means he can go posting info all over the internet that our ememys can use to harm us.
Sounds like the jackasses are the ones with the security lapses. If you don't think our enemies have all of this figured out already you're way behind the power curve.
Well I for one would like to thank the guy for going out of his way to endanger everyone who flys by choosing to post "the answers to the test" on youtube for all to see rather than working with airport security to fix the issues.
They already know the answers to the test. I would think he posted it to show all the dumb shit Americans who have a false sense of security and who think the TSA provides some sort of protection what a joke they really are.
"As you can see, airport security is kind of a farce. It's only smoke and mirrors so you people believe there is actually something going on here," the pilot narrates.
As a FFDO he did sign a non-disclosure agreement. I deal with these Jackasses everday and know what a bunch af Whinners they are. Just because they have a Strong Union that has lots of Pull in Washington means he can go posting info all over the internet that our ememys can use to harm us.
Well there it is. The pilot's in the wrong for violating the agreement he had made. Talk about a career-limiting move.
The fact remains, however, that airports are pure security theater.
The fact remains, however, that airports are pure security theater.
That is really the bottom line. I have to expose my kids to a cancer-causing surface x-ray, allow them to be groped by a pervert, or not fly (the option that I choose) for no reason whatsoever. All a jihadi has to do is find a friend who works at the airport.
Cincinnatus
12-25-10, 19:20
What pisses me off about this is the confiscation of his civilian CCW permit too.
What pisses me off about this is the confiscation of his civilian CCW permit too.
That's what happens when you put the law into the polices hands, which is supposed to be a HUGE no-no in "free" countries.
If the mini dictator running the LE agency doesn't like you, he will take away your rights.
The real problem is that the security vulnerability he "exposed" is a regulatory issue. There is no congressional requirement for screening of employees entering the Secured Area of a commercial airport. Only one major airport does it (Miami) and that was more to combat smuggling than terrorism. TSA cannot require airports to implement full screening measures there because congress has not given them that authority. It's still not something TSA wants to publicize though, and this loudmouth did exactly that.
His inclusion in the FFDO program is strictly voluntary and is subject to terms, which he violated with this stunt. What he also fails to recognize is that there are security measures in place both by TSA and the airport operators to try to address this issue, which is a big concern. Unfortunately, Mr. Big Mouth is not privy to that compartmentalized information. Does he really think that what he sees from his vantage point is the only thing there is?
This is a definitive example of why it's important to stay in your lane. :(
SWATcop556
12-25-10, 23:40
That's what happens when you put the law into the polices hands, which is supposed to be a HUGE no-no in "free" countries.
If the mini dictator running the LE agency doesn't like you, he will take away your rights.
And it's comments like this without all of the facts RE: his ccw that has led to a ban on LE topics here. Be very careful about blanket comments such as these as it will lead to infractions or more. Our new LE guidelines have been posted and if this is the path this thread follows then it will be closed.
Bolt_Overide
12-26-10, 00:21
And it's comments like this without all of the facts RE: his ccw that has led to a ban on LE topics here. Be very careful about blanket comments such as these as it will lead to infractions or more. Our new LE guidelines have been posted and if this is the path this thread follows then it will be closed.
While I am never one to use blanket statements like this about anyone, LEO's included, there is some small merit to the argument.
There have been more than a few documented cases of things like that, especially with political appointees who are heading various agencies.
A few of the recent BATF directors come to mind.
Our new LE guidelines have been posted...
Please post a link to this.
This is a definitive example of why it's important to stay in your lane.
I can't agree. If you see something wrong you light it up, especially stuff that can kill many people. Do you know if any official channels were pursued? Did he get pushed aside?
This seems like a case of insecure bureaucrats who didn't take kindly to being exposed. Their retaliation should be grounds for their dismissal. This whistle blower should be given back all rights and privileges and lauded for his courage to come forward.
This seems like a case of insecure bureaucrats who didn't take kindly to being exposed. Their retaliation should be grounds for their dismissal. This whistle blower should be given back all rights and privileges and lauded for his courage to come forward.
Overall this is my sense of it too.
SWATcop556
12-26-10, 12:22
Please post a link to this.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=69588
Due to the actions and behavior of some this is until further notice.
I'm sure that he signed some sort of confidential agreement in order to work in the airport and carry a weapon, so most likely he will lose any lawsuit presented before a Federal judge in regard to the TSA's actions. It's a shame, as I would like to see the TSA disbanded or at least severely neutered.
I can't help but think that some more common sense type precautions would go a lot further than groping children and buying scanning machines.
as far as the pilot.. shame he is catching so much shit, but he really should have made it harder to track who made the video. It's not that hard to put things on the net anonymously.
I can't agree. If you see something wrong you light it up, especially stuff that can kill many people. Do you know if any official channels were pursued? Did he get pushed aside?
This seems like a case of insecure bureaucrats who didn't take kindly to being exposed. Their retaliation should be grounds for their dismissal. This whistle blower should be given back all rights and privileges and lauded for his courage to come forward.
"They" didn't take kindly to being exposed? Or they didn't take kindly to Sensitive Security Information being disclosed by someone who signed a confidentiality agreement? Big difference.
What steps did he take to put his complaints through official channels? Did he even bother? Had he contacted his congressman's office? Or did he get pissy because he doesn't like being screened and wanted to turn the focus on what he thought should be more important? Has he eaver heard of PSA flight 1771? Does he even understand why he is required by federal regulations to be screened? Does he understand that security measures for the ramp are congressionally mandated? Has he read 49 C.F.R. §1542? Is he aware of all the post security checkpoint measures that are in place?
I've seen lots of pilots like this one. They feel that just because there may be a security vulnerability somewhere else, they shouldn't be subjected to security measures. They don't understand the layered approach to security measures. They have no idea what is or isn't being done to protect the aircraft they're flying. They don't understand compartmentalized information. They don't understand that some security measures take years, and billions of dollars to implement. All they know is what they see, which is only a tiny segment of the incredibly large and complex security systems, measures and procedures that have been implemented over several decades.
Aviation security didn't just magically appear on 9/11/2001. :rolleyes:
CarlosDJackal
12-27-10, 14:17
This guy is a moron. Making any weakness known does not make it stronger. This is a perfect case of two wrongs not making a right.
Just because there is a hole in the fence that someone can sneak through, it does not mean you should let everyone, including those who you are trying to keep out, know about it.
Why he did what he did might be noble; how he did it is far from it. If this issue is prevalent in all of our Airports (which I am willing to bet it is) what he has effectively done is give those who would exploit such a weakness a window of opportunity because it will take time to mend all the "holes in the fence".
As my TAC Officers in OCS used to tell me: "GOOD INITIATIVE, BAD JUDGMENT!!"
Littlelebowski
12-27-10, 14:19
NOT starting an LE bash thread; just looking for more info on his CCW being confiscated.
Just because there is a hole in the fence that someone can sneak through, it does not mean you should let everyone, including those who you are trying to keep out, know about it.
The folly of this statement is thinking this hole hasn't already gone viral on the communication channels of any and all interested parties. How long does it take for meaningless, stupid stuff to go viral on the Net??? It's also somewhat arrogant to believe those in the know were the only ones with the intel. Talk about underestimating your adversary...
This guy is a moron. Making any weakness known does not make it stronger. This is a perfect case of two wrongs not making a right.
And trying to sweep it under the rug and hassle the guy doesn't make it stronger either.
Security through obscurity just doesn't work. And I emphatically AM in my lane as the head of security for a national firm (physical and digital). Usually a spotlight DOES get the problem fixed. The guy may be a douchebag, but I can't say it strongly enough. Security by pretending it's not a hole or just hiding the hole has proven not to work so many times I can't believe people still think this.
And seriously, the program is voluntary yes. But they're taking away a license from a guy who flies around in machines that go 500 knots, weigh a couple of hundred tons, and carry what, 50,000 gallons of jet fuel?
The folly of this statement is thinking this hole hasn't already gone viral on the communication channels of any and all interested parties. How long does it take for meaningless, stupid stuff to go viral on the Net??? It's also somewhat arrogant to believe those in the know were the only ones with the intel. Talk about underestimating your adversary...
So what you're saying is that he needlessly stirred the hornet's nest? The good guys already know about it and so do the bad guys, so what was the point of this little exercise if not his own self-aggrandizement?
Cincinnatus
12-28-10, 00:17
NOT starting an LE bash thread; just looking for more info on his CCW being confiscated.
I saw the info in the initial story posted on Drudge a few days ago. I bet if you search Drudge under the dude's name you'll find the link. What it said was that Federal Agents came and took is federally issued firearm he was deputized to carry on board plane and then the Sherrif's office came by and took his civilian CCW.
Let me be clear, I am not bashing LE either. I have the utmost respect for LE officers; and those who took his CCW were just doing their jobs; who I am angry at is the political appointees and bureacrats further up the chain.
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