View Full Version : Receipt Checks
How do you all feel about receipt checks? Apparently there is some issue with stores accosting and/or detaining customers about receipts. I can envision things getting out of hand pretty quickly in CCW states. I was wondering what the general opinion of the forum would be. Do you submit to a search of your purchases and show a receipt or do you refuse and ask to see a manager?
http://consumerist.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=1&tag=receipt%20checkers&limit=20
My vote:
Refuse to show a receipt, ask if you are being accused of thief, then attempt to leave.
Is with the qualifier that I make it my business to know where this is policy & avoid those stores. I won't shop where there is a reciept check policy. If I get caught with my shorts down and find myself having shopped in such a place. What I voted is first recourse, alternatively I might turn back around, take my merchandise to the service counter, return it and explain that they wanted to check my reciept so, here's your reciept check, where's my refund, my business is going elsewhere.
pilotguyo540
12-24-10, 11:46
Its not a big deal. Its a private company. They can handle LP how they want.
Welcome to walmart!
RancidSumo
12-24-10, 11:52
I've never been to a store that did it unless you set off the buzzer at the door so in that case of course I let them check my bags and go deactivate whatever set it off.
Business_Casual
12-24-10, 11:57
As long as they are polite and only want to check the store bag, I have no problem with it.
B_C
I am interested in the legality of stores (that don't have a posted policy like Costco) coming and demanding to check your bag after you have paid. I believe that once you pay for the merchandise, it is yours, and they therefore cannot force a look in your bags etc. I would like to know if anyone knows the legality of this?
Search the bag? Sure.
Search anything else? Pound sand.
Though honestly, I can't say I worry about it too much.
having done LP for a little while in college, i can tell you with first hand knowledge that if you are stopped, and refuse to show a receipt, and they do ANYTHING else other than say "have a nice day," you're easily good for a quick $3-5k settlement for what we call a "non-arrest apprehension."
accusing good paying customers of thievery, whether verbally or by action, is bad, bad, bad mojo, and they paid big bucks for that stuff.
now if you're actually physically detained... that number goes WAY up. if you're cuffed, and if a lot of people saw it, you can easily punch through 5 figures in offered settlement, and if you get dragged back to the LP office, you may very approach 6 figures.
the sky is the limit if you resist and are injured... perhaps millions? depends on the caliber of your lawyer and the collective mentality of the county you live in.
jklaughrey
12-24-10, 12:58
My fraternity brother is a WW super center mgr and he basically tells his ppl to only stop if an alarm sounds, or if LP has evidence that someone is leaving and they have stolen items on their person. I have never been asked, and if I don't meet the above criteria I would show my Dept. ID and badge and then ask if they wish to detain me unlawfully for which they will be arrested. Thankfully I avoid WW like a Thai hooker, but they know me on a professional level so can't say I would get static from mine.
A few stores in the area operate on the "if you don't/didn't have eyes or camera on them 100% of the time since you saw them stash the merchandise, then they walk..." policy.
Both chains are/were huge, and both had lost several cases because LP guys saw them stash it, usually on video, but then at some point the thief swapped it to someone else, or ditched it completely before exiting.
The policies were so strict that even if the perp was behind a display, out of sight for 1 second, you had to let them walk.
I ignore them and keep walking. If they want to pay me for my time then we can talk. I won't be illegally detained and I consider it offensive that they insinuate I've stolen something by wanting to check my receipt. If someone were to lay hands on me for wanting to continue on my way it'd be a bad day for everyone involved.
A few stores in the area operate on the "if you don't/didn't have eyes or camera on them 100% of the time since you saw them stash the merchandise, then they walk..." policy.
Both chains are/were huge, and both had lost several cases because LP guys saw them stash it, usually on video, but then at some point the thief swapped it to someone else, or ditched it completely before exiting.
The policies were so strict that even if the perp was behind a display, out of sight for 1 second, you had to let them walk.
that was our policy also.. "5 elements" required to make an arrest, which left absoluely zero doubt, and one of them was "100% continuous observation."
but it was common knowledge that nobody actually consistently had all 5 elements. you were expected to produce arrests, but given honor-system rules that prevented 95% of arrests from occurring.. it was a pretty low-brow gig, for a whopping $12/hr.
receipt check like frys they look in the bag ? no problem if they want to look or check my person NOPE
Costco I know its coming and its more a count to make sure you did not leave items or they were not put in the cart ? not steal them so no issue with it at all
I support rights of private business and I can vote with my feet :)
plus I shop online a ton :)
receipt check like frys they look in the bag ? no problem if they want to look or check my person NOPE
Costco I know its coming and its more a count to make sure you did not leave items or they were not put in the cart ? not steal them so no issue with it at all
I support rights of private business and I can vote with my feet :)
plus I shop online a ton :)
i'm OK with blanket policies- check everyone leaving the store. what's NOT ok is singling out individuals based on suspicions. based on my experience, i was astonished at walmart's policy the first time i went there. at the store chain i worked at, regular store employees were absolutely forbidden from running after customers who beeped going out, or calling them back in. this constituted a detainment, and left us vulnerable to civil liability, if the customer claimed false-arrest under ORS's definition (which does fit the elements of that crime, as the ORS is written). if a customer chose to ignore them, they were to let the customer go on without further molestation. even if the cashier/manager/stock boy/whatever knew they'd stolen something. only LP could take further action, and we were also severely limited in what we could do- without our "5 elements," we could do absolutely nothing, and even making our presence known to the individual could get you fired and possibly sued.
walmart greeters, on the other hand, will go ****ing chase people down and demand receipts... how the hell do they get away with that? has walmart decided that paying out $3-5k per incident is worth the deterrent factor? i don't know how the minds of bean-counters work, so this could be.
that was our policy also.. "5 elements" required to make an arrest, which left absoluely zero doubt, and one of them was "100% continuous observation."
but it was common knowledge that nobody actually consistently had all 5 elements. you were expected to produce arrests, but given honor-system rules that prevented 95% of arrests from occurring.. it was a pretty low-brow gig, for a whopping $12/hr.
Ditto here: at the retail joint where I used to work, the only acceptable way to detain shoplifters was to have actual LEO's detain them in the parking lot. You can observe and report in the meantime, though, and relay the info to law enforcement.
Complication
12-24-10, 17:59
I'll walk out of the store with my receipt in my hand, but I don't let them look at it or search the bags--I got places to be. Especially when they're busy searching someone else's bag (which in my experience it usually the case). I waited in line to buy what I wanted, I'm not going to wait in line to get to my car.
If they do try to wave me down, I usually ignore what they're saying, wave goodbye to them (with my receipt in hand), and say, "I'm good, thanks."
Usually that confuses them enough to let me out the door. Bonus points: that phrase also works on panhandlers. ("Can you spare some change?" "I'm good, thanks.")
Semi-related note: when the entry aisle to Walmart gets crowded up, I just hang a right and walk between two closed registers. This usually make the greeter loose their shit.
Managing their store is their responsibility. Paying for my goods is mine. If they're not going to help pay for my stuff, I'm not going to help them do their job. End of story.
FromMyColdDeadHand
12-24-10, 18:04
The thing about Receipt checks is, that to me they are meant to catch inside job thievery- some one ringing in a low amount, or bar code swapping- and I don't like wasting my time because the employer has to have a check and balance on his own work force.
I shop at some stores where I have to show a receipt and they look at your cart and the receipt before you leave.
If anyone wants to search me *I* will call the police and consent to be searched BY THE POLICE when they arrive. I will not allow some dipshit making 8 dollars an hour to lay hands on me. I will not consent to be moved out of public view before the police come. Whatever happens I want to take place in front of witnesses.
I perceive checking my receipt for some large item as being part of their job - I have no problem with it. Asking to search me is accusing me of theft. The only time this has happened to me was at a Best Buy. The guy wanted to search me. I told him "no". He said "we'll call the police then". I said "fine". He took my arm wanted to go to "the back room", I pulled it away and told him that I was legally armed, had no intention of assaulting him, but we were going to wait for the police right there by the front door. This wasn't going the way he'd been taught. The cops showed up, they knew me and vouched, I showed the Best Buy guy my credentials and the matter ended. Next time I saw him at that store, I stopped on the way out and asked him if he had any questions for me. He said "no". I've never had an issue there since.
NinjaMedic
12-24-10, 19:29
I will not be detained or searched by any non-LEO plain and simple. Once I purchase an item and pick up the bag I consider that item and bag to be on my person and it will not be searched. I am not a thief, if they have technology issues with their RFID equipment it is their problem. As far as reciept checks, if I have paid for an item and a reciept is transferred into my possesion it is now my property as well and they will not search, examine, mark or otherwise interface with my property any more than I will allow them to "unsell" the property. If they believe I stole something they should dial 911 and file a police report. If they think I will allow them to lay hands on me or accuse me of thievery they are sadly mistaken.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of them."
Just keep walking, larger stores specifically tell their employees not to interfere if a customer refuses a search, they will be fired if they ignore this and routinely are. Bank employees are told not to resist in robberies. There was a famous incident where a bank employee chased down a robber and was fired.
A few years ago a loss prevention officer described the three biggest culprits in store theft as "Full-time", "Temporary", and "Seasonal".
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/dec/16/wal-mart-manager-accused-selling-250000-merchandis/
I've only had my receipt checked at Walmart if I'm leaving with a large item that doesn't fit in the bag. I'm fine with that, but if all my shit is bagged, you're not looking in my bags.
I am interested in the legality of stores (that don't have a posted policy like Costco) coming and demanding to check your bag after you have paid. I believe that once you pay for the merchandise, it is yours, and they therefore cannot force a look in your bags etc. I would like to know if anyone knows the legality of this?
I think the threshold is leaving the store. I'd imagine it's possible to buy some items, work your way back into the store, and throw some more stuff in your bag.
Anyway, I've only had it happen at discount stores, where they just check your cart. I guess I live in an area where shoplifting isn't a huge problem.
And I wouldn't blame the store, I'd blame the stinking thieves who make it necessary.
A few years ago a loss prevention officer described the three biggest culprits in store theft as "Full-time", "Temporary", and "Seasonal".
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/dec/16/wal-mart-manager-accused-selling-250000-merchandis/
Yep, saw plenty of that with my own eyes.
If its a regualr store, and they want to inspect my bags before I leave they can piss up a rope. you want to accuse me of being a thief, then you better have proof enough to detain me. Other than that I walk straight out.
However if its a club type of store like Sam's or Costco, then I already agreed to be inspected.
CarlosDJackal
12-25-10, 16:21
Show my receipt, my purchases if asked, and move on. Is it really worth the BS to take offense to something as benign as a receipt check? If you really feel that strongly about it, go shop elsewhere or online. :rolleyes: JM2CW.
Quiet-Matt
12-25-10, 16:29
The first time this happened to me at Wal-Mart I was an ass to the woman. I was mad because of the rediculous reasons they give for the check. My wife reminded me that these folks are only doing what they are told to do by the overloards from corporate. If they dont do it they will be replaced with the next minimum wager that comes along. So now I cooperate, but I ask the individual to express my dissatisfaction to his/her manager.
Oh I agree that there is no excuse to be an ass. You just simply and politely answer "no" and keep on walking. No need to take it out on the poor employees for their bosses mistake.
RogerinTPA
12-25-10, 21:27
Oh I agree that there is no excuse to be an ass. You just simply and politely answer "no" and keep on walking. No need to take it out on the poor employees for their bosses mistake.
Agreed. If asked, I produce a receipt. If asked, they can search the bag, anything else I walk. If an employee is dumb enough to grab me, it's on.
How do you all feel about receipt checks? Apparently there is some issue with stores accosting and/or detaining customers about receipts. I can envision things getting out of hand pretty quickly in CCW states. I was wondering what the general opinion of the forum would be. WalMart (as the most common example) often exercises a policy to ask to see a receipt. From all that I've seen, they do not have a policy requiring a customer to actually show a receipt, absent actual evidence of theft.
I think the accosting/detention stories are statistical anomalies.
Do you submit to a search of your purchases and show a receipt or do you refuse and ask to see a manager?I think the most typical response to the receipt checker (excepting the discount clubs) is in between the two above extremes, and that is to ignore them or offer a polite "no thanks" when asked. 99.9% of the time, nobody minds this scenario, but that lack of drama doesn't make for entertaining internet tales.
Of course, if I was actually detained with a false accusation of theft, it would be elevated to the manager, police, etc.
WalMart (as the most common example) often exercises a policy to ask to see a receipt. From all that I've seen, they do not have a policy requiring a customer to actually show a receipt, absent actual evidence of theft.
I think the accosting/detention stories are statistical anomalies.
I think the most typical response to the receipt checker (excepting the discount clubs) is in between the two above extremes, and that is to ignore them or offer a polite "no thanks" when asked. 99.9% of the time, nobody minds this scenario, but that lack of drama doesn't make for entertaining internet tales.
Of course, if I was actually detained with a false accusation of theft, it would be elevated to the manager, police, etc.
Thank you for the remarks Doc. There is a similar thread on the other site and a gentleman advocated issue stun guns to the checkers. I think that is taking the issue just a little to far. It is to easy to produce a receipt. However, I don't like being made to feel like a criminal after conducting a legal transaction. I think we have been socially engineered to show the receipt. No one wants to be thought of as a thief so we show the receipt and not think twice about it. I never considered not showing a receipt until I came across this subject. Now I know my rights and can make a decision vs. performing a conditioned response.
Here is a link that illustrates the drama that we all love.
http://consumerist.com/2010/12/man-records-himself-being-detained-at-walmart-for-a-receipt-check.html
How do you all feel about receipt checks?
One fellow locally made a stand, but apparently was not diplomatic:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=13808117
Alpha Sierra
12-29-10, 09:34
I ignore them and keep walking. If they want to pay me for my time then we can talk. I won't be illegally detained and I consider it offensive that they insinuate I've stolen something by wanting to check my receipt. If someone were to lay hands on me for wanting to continue on my way it'd be a bad day for everyone involved.
This is pretty much my policy.
GermanSynergy
12-29-10, 10:10
Same here.
I can't say that I've shopped at WM much since 2007 (probably 10 trips for ammo) or so, and it's been a non issue for me.
I went to the Wal-Mart in Beria, VA yesterday and bought some 9mm ammo. The old lady sitting by the door simply told me to have a nice day.
In this day and age, I cannot fathom a door checker putting their hands on a customer as they leave the store. Talk about instant lawsuit, just add lawyer type deal.
I ignore them and keep walking. If they want to pay me for my time then we can talk. I won't be illegally detained and I consider it offensive that they insinuate I've stolen something by wanting to check my receipt. If someone were to lay hands on me for wanting to continue on my way it'd be a bad day for everyone involved.
Pretty simple really. If they ask to check my bags and receipt fine. Anything more and they had better call the police and be prepared for the consequences.
CarlosDJackal
12-29-10, 11:13
Pretty simple really. If they ask to check my bags and receipt fine. Anything more and they had better call the police and be prepared for the consequences.
+1 million. Look at it from the retailer's perspective. "Shrinkage" (what they call theft of their products) is a huge problem. So much so that it is usually the biggest cause of revenue loss for any retailer.
The options available to them are:
(1) Eat up the cost and go belly up rather quickly.
(2) Pass the cost onto the customers.
(3) Install more security features such as cameras, electronic tags, Security personnel; and pass on that cost to the customers.
(4) Take less expensive steps to discourage theft (IE: Receipt checks, detailed item checks like Sam's Club and COSCO does).
Personally, if it will keep prices low, I have no problem showing my receipt and the items I purchased to someone. Whether randomly or every time I purchase something.
If it gets to be a nuisance, is handled poorly, or I feel that they are targeting me because of race; then I'll file a complaint and take my business elsewhere. If they want to search my person, they better call the Police and have their lawyer contact my lawyer because I will probably take them to civil court.
IMHO, you are on private property and they are well within their rights to minimize the number of unpaid items that walk out from their store. JM2CW.
GermanSynergy
12-29-10, 11:26
You were too nice. IMHO. The door checker assaulted you, and I would have seriously considered pressing charges, as well as contacting my attorney immediately.
It should have been an expensive lesson.
I perceive checking my receipt for some large item as being part of their job - I have no problem with it. Asking to search me is accusing me of theft. The only time this has happened to me was at a Best Buy. The guy wanted to search me. I told him "no". He said "we'll call the police then". I said "fine". He took my arm wanted to go to "the back room", I pulled it away and told him that I was legally armed, had no intention of assaulting him, but we were going to wait for the police right there by the front door. This wasn't going the way he'd been taught. The cops showed up, they knew me and vouched, I showed the Best Buy guy my credentials and the matter ended. Next time I saw him at that store, I stopped on the way out and asked him if he had any questions for me. He said "no". I've never had an issue there since.
I will not be detained or searched by any non-LEO plain and simple. Once I purchase an item and pick up the bag I consider that item and bag to be on my person and it will not be searched. I am not a thief, if they have technology issues with their RFID equipment it is their problem. As far as reciept checks, if I have paid for an item and a reciept is transferred into my possesion it is now my property as well and they will not search, examine, mark or otherwise interface with my property any more than I will allow them to "unsell" the property. If they believe I stole something they should dial 911 and file a police report. If they think I will allow them to lay hands on me or accuse me of thievery they are sadly mistaken.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same of them."
I'm with Ninja on this one. I went to a WM and bought some ammo and paid at the sports counter. I was late for a match and was hurrying back to my vehicle when the door greeter asked to see my receipt. I said, "Sorry, ma'am, I'm in a hurry" and proceeded out the door. She followed behind me, freaking out and yelling into her radio about how I had "Come from the back."
Once I buy something, it is mine, and I will not have my purchases examined or rifled through. If they think I have done something illegal, they need to call the police. Truthfully I would almost just as soon show the receipt to avoid any trouble, but there's principles involved here, starting with the assumption that I'm a thief despite the fact that I just spent money in their store. They need to take up their LP problems with the people stealing from them, not me.
I have places to go, people to meet, and do not have time for this nonsense, so I usually ignore them, most of the time they ignore me too. Only once in recent memory did I guy follow me out the parking lot, demanding to see my receipt.
Alpha Sierra
12-29-10, 12:09
IMHO, you are on private property and they are well within their rights to minimize the number of unpaid items that walk out from their store. JM2CW.
They may be within their rights to ask of me to prove that what I have just paid for is my property.
I am just as well within mine to ignore their request. And I just as well within my rights to not submit to a detention from someone who has no legal authority to detain me.
Alpha Sierra
12-29-10, 12:11
Once I buy something, it is mine, and I will not have my purchases examined or rifled through. If they think I have done something illegal, they need to call the police. They need to take up their LP problems with the people stealing from them, not me.
That's what it boils down to for me.
Alpha Sierra
12-29-10, 12:12
Only once in recent memory did I guy follow me out the parking lot, demanding to see my receipt.
How did that end?
How did that end?
I continued to ignore him (he was behind me trying to catch up), so I think he went back to his post.
There's one door greeter at WM who continually stops me and asks for a receipt. The first 5 or 6 times, I just showed the receipt. After that, i started to get kind of upset that I was being check every time I left so I'd purposefully walk to the other exit and leave without the hassle.
It only started to bother me because it was consistent and unwarranted. I took the same approach as many others have stated and just said "no thanks" rather than walk out of my way. That worked for a while, but about 6 weeks ago, as I entered the store, the same greeter was there and proceeded to get on the radio and had the store manager follow me around the store. As I was leaving, the manager asked if he could see my receipt. I politely told him no. He rambled off something about store policy. I brought up the fact that I was being stopped every time I come in the store and this time, was followed, by him, through the store and I'd like to know why. I asked if they thought I was a thief, he promptly said no. I then asked why he followed me thru the store and he said the greeter had called him on the radio. So I asked, "does she think I'm a thief?" A lot of mumble, mumble, side step ensued. Basically, after about 10 minutes, it came down to the greeter thinking I was someone I was not (mistaken identity on her part). I was nice, I was polite, and now there is no issue.
I do have to say though, if either of them would have put their hands on me, I'd probably have had stronger words for the manager. It really is just a principle thing. Having never stolen anything, it kinda chaps my ass that I was getting harassed. Either way, cool heads and measured words solved the problem.
Alpha Sierra
12-29-10, 12:31
I continued to ignore him (he was behind me trying to catch up), so I think he went back to his post.
Gotcha. I was wondering how far that guy would push.
I cant say that I have ever actually been asked before. The only place I can think of that has a guy at the door is Wally World and I only buy ammo there.
That said I don't think I would mind if they asked for my receipt but I would not be keen on being searched... In all honesty its not something I have ever put much thought into...
Man, you guys must all look like some shady characters! :p
The only time I'm ever stopped and asked about my receipt is when I buy ammo at Wally World and they check me out back there. Usually about halfway back up front I remember that I need milk or razors and have to go through the check out process all over again, with the cashier eyeing my ammo purchase. Usually I just show them the receipt as a courtesy, so they don't get all bent out of shape. I was a cashier for a while in college, they don't make enough money to deal with all the stupid people they have to, if I can make it easier on them, I will.
And speaking of cashiers, I unload my cart onto the belt in a very specific way, so all they have to do is ring it up, and bag it according to weight. Yet of all the times I have done this I can count on one hand the times the cashier actually bagged the stuff together like I had it on the belt. I don't understand why they can't do it the easy way. . .
Alpha Sierra
12-31-10, 23:56
And speaking of cashiers, I unload my cart onto the belt in a very specific way, so all they have to do is ring it up, and bag it according to weight. Yet of all the times I have done this I can count on one hand the times the cashier actually bagged the stuff together like I had it on the belt. I don't understand why they can't do it the easy way. . .
If they had the brain power and initiative to figure it out, they wouldn't be doing one of the most menial and unskilled jobs in America.
i'm OK with blanket policies- check everyone leaving the store. what's NOT ok is singling out individuals based on suspicions.
agree
someone chases me down not sure especially with my kid in tow they might be on the ground (not shot but unconscious) and I bet I would get off scott free protecting my child
hope it never happens :)
I've never been to a store that did it unless you set off the buzzer at the door so in that case of course I let them check my bags and go deactivate whatever set it off.
I do not mind them looking in my shopping bag if the buzzer goes off. That happens once or twice a year usually at wal mart. They look at my reciept and my stuff and I've always been sent on my way. There is no way I would allow them to search me. VT law allows merchants to search any bag a person has in their store.
I do not mind them looking in my shopping bag if the buzzer goes off. That happens once or twice a year usually at wal mart. They look at my reciept and my stuff and I've always been sent on my way. There is no way I would allow them to search me. VT law allows merchants to search any bag a person has in their store.
at the store i did LP at, store employees were encouraged to check people's receipts at the door when the EAS system activated for the purpose of checking which cashier had failed to deactivate an EAS tags. for every "FTD" a given employee checked on, they were given $1 at the end of the period. some employees raked in $60-$100 a month on FTDs.
in the same program, store employees would be granted 10% of the value of recovered stolen goods, if they were to check a customer's FTD at the door and the customer "dropped" the merchandise and left.... as in, thief decided against it due to the attention.
so there was a lot of incentive to get those FTDs.... but it was always under the pretense of finding out which cashier was the blame for the failure to deactive- never an accusation of theft.
They do not get a receipt, they do not get to see my bags.
If they try to stop me without some sort of reasonable cause then they are illegally detaining me.
There are only two exceptions to this.
1: The alarm goes off. Obviously this gives them some cause to suspect something is going on.
2: It is a Club store like Costco or Sams Club where I have signed an agreement saying they can check my receipt.
There are only two exceptions to this.
1: The alarm goes off. Obviously this gives them some cause to suspect something is going on.
2: It is a Club store like Costco or Sams Club where I have signed an agreement saying they can check my receipt.
That is where I'm at too.
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