View Full Version : Need Help Deciding.
Howdy folks, first post but avid reader. Anyhow, I'm a Police Officer here in good ol' California. However, California is the kiss of death when it comes to anything with a grip and a bullet.
Recently my agency has approved three AR's we can purchase for duty use. 1.) Colt 2.) Bushmaster and 3.) Smith and Wesson. After reading a lot I pretty much narrowed it down to Smith and Wesson. I like the Smith and Wesson M&P15T, or the Smith and Wesson VTAC. I like the VTAC a lot, but it’s pretty pricey and I haven’t been able to read a lot of reviews on it. Plus there is new model that supposed to be coming out, but no set date.
I was curious to see what others opinions were on the subject. Obviously when you name those three brands its like saying, "What’s better, Ford, Chevrolet or Dodge?"
Getting an AR in California isn’t easy so I’m jumping at the opportunity. I just want to make the right decision before purchasing because I’ll be stuck with this one for a while. My needs are pretty simple. I work for a busy city and most likely will just be using some version of red dot (eotech or aimpoint).
So, if you were a copper, and to depended on one AR for patrol. Which of the three would you recommend? Thanks in advance for your time and hopefully I posted this in the appropriate thread.
pilotguyo540
12-26-10, 07:46
If I was a Cop here in Cali, I would go Colt and never look back. I want one and can't have one because I am not LE. Colt is the gold standard to which all others are judged by. Of your 3 choices, it is the best option. Smith and wesson is solid in second place. Bushmaster is a very distant third.
pilotguyo540
12-26-10, 07:52
Start here : https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
And welcome to M4C;)
GermanSynergy
12-26-10, 07:52
Of the 3 choices, I'd suggest going with the Colt.
RAM Engineer
12-26-10, 08:01
Colt, then S&W, then Bushamster.
If you end up going BM (:D) you may need to install a taller front sight post. Among other things...
I certainly don't see those three as being equivalent. Given those choices, I'd get the Colt. The S&w would be a reluctant second choice. I'd never get a Bushmaster for a weapon with which I might have to defend my life.
If one believes that, from a reliability standpoint, the .mil knows what they're doing in terms of durable and reliable weapons, then one has to give THE CHART a hard look. In which case you wouldn't really take Bushmaster seriously as a duty weapon.
If cost is not a factor, then 1. Colt, 2. S & W. There is no acceptable 3rd choice on your list. If you really have to save a couple bucks, S & W.
Wow, looks pretty definitive that Colt is the way to go. I can get the Colt LE6920 for $1,100 and the Colt LE6940 for $1,300. What would the best bang for the buck be? Is the monolithic frame significant?
Not sure if it matters, but I cant change the lower assembly. I can only change the upper assembly. Thanks again for the responses. I appreciate it.
pilotguyo540
12-26-10, 09:53
If it was me I would do the 6920 (really the 6720 light weight) and install MOE hand guards and call it a day. Free floating is an advantage but minuscule at best. You only need to add a light and an aimpoint to have a very nice setup.
Get a Colt hands down. It will allow you to shoot the piss out of it outside of quals, such as training classes; and have a gun that will last a long time and be reliable should you use it LOD.
I bought a 6940 a couple of months ago and I really like it so far. I like that it comes with the rail and that it's all one piece with the upper. It seems to be very sturdy and it saves me from having to buy an aftermarket rail system. I also like the flip up sights since I plan to put an optic on it. Again, that saves me from having to buy aftermarket backup sights.
There is something different about the barrel nut on the 6940, which could be an issue if you plan to change barrels. It may just take a special wrench. I haven't really researched that aspect of it since I don't plan on changing the barrel.
$1,300 is a good price. I paid $1,400 for mine.
From your list get the Colt. Do not get a BM. Been there done that. If you look around at prices the Colt is very affordable especiallyif you can only have one.
Failure2Stop
12-26-10, 14:52
Do you have a model list that you are restricted to, or are you able to purchase any model as long as it is from one of those three manufacturers?
RogerinTPA
12-26-10, 16:45
If cost is not a factor, then 1. Colt, 2. S & W. There is no acceptable 3rd choice on your list. If you really have to save a couple bucks, S & W.
This.
I wouldn't even consider BM. Period.
Do you have a model list that you are restricted to, or are you able to purchase any model as long as it is from one of those three manufacturers?
I can purchase any model as long as one of the three companies make it :)
I can purchase any model as long as one of the three companies make it :)
I wonder what prompted your agency to put Bushmaster on the same list as Colt.
I wonder what prompted your agency to put Bushmaster on the same list as Colt.
I don't know, probably because it was the most affordable, but it seems like a lot of people are supporting B M.
What are the main reasons that make B M an inferior rifle?
The 6940 is looking pretty good right now. Thanks again for the replies.
I can purchase any model as long as one of the three companies make it :)
In that case I would go with a 6721 from Clyde's for another $100. LW barrel profile with a BUIS ready for an optic.
What are the main reasons that make B M an inferior rifle?
Seriously, look at the chart. That's a pretty objective review of the differences.
I wonder why you agency didn't put DPMS on there too. DPMS gets a lot of traction with bean counters that don't know weapons in a lot of departments.
If I was a Cop here in Cali, I would go Colt and never look back. I want one and can't have one because I am not LE. Colt is the gold standard to which all others are judged by. Of your 3 choices, it is the best option. Smith and wesson is solid in second place. Bushmaster is a very distant third.
I agree.
I used a Colt at work. Since I'm no longer LE, and don't live in CA, I have a Colt at home. Here's a link to a good write-up on selecting a patrol rifle for LE.
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh
Biker
This maybe a stupid question or one answered a thousand time (I have searched Bushmaster and only found people trashing them without any real explanation or specifics supporting it) but what is wrong with Bushmaster. Also what is the CHART? Thanks for any info this may bring and sorry if this derails the original question.
This maybe a stupid question or one answered a thousand time. . .what is the CHART? Thanks for any info this may bring and sorry if this derails the original question.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
pilotguyo540
12-26-10, 20:32
This maybe a stupid question or one answered a thousand time (I have searched Bushmaster and only found people trashing them without any real explanation or specifics supporting it) but what is wrong with Bushmaster. Also what is the CHART? Thanks for any info this may bring and sorry if this derails the original question.
I posted a link to the chart in the third post of this thread. It was graciously assembled by Rob_S of this forum (and of tacticalyellowvisor.net ). It is the differences between AR's of various manufacturers. There are very detailed explanations of important features.
This maybe a stupid question or one answered a thousand time (I have searched Bushmaster and only found people trashing them without any real explanation or specifics supporting it) but what is wrong with Bushmaster. Also what is the CHART? Thanks for any info this may bring and sorry if this derails the original question.
Read post #3 there is a link there.
Start here : https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
And welcome to M4C;)
We can all tell you but there is power in reading it yourself. The "chart" is simply a perfect place to start.
"The Chart" is an objective compilation of several of the more common brands of AR builders giving a general overview of how closely each brand adheres to the US Gov't Technical Data Package for the military versions of the Ar15/M16 /M4 platform. If you believe that the rifles used by the US military are "professional grade", then the other end of the chart, where Bushmaster resides, could be better categorized as "range toy". The thing that seems to irk most of the posters around here is that in many cases those "range toys" are sold for around the same price as the real deal. This forum has a higher percentage of professionals than some other forums, and you'll find they have no patience for imitators of professional grade weaponry.
The chart is located here. It's pretty self explanatory.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html
Simply Colt builds guns the way they are supposed to be built using the correct materials and techniques. The Colt is a high quality gun that we all feel comfortable recommending because it will run when and how it is supposed to. They don't cut corners and it shows.
I don't personally own a Colt. I've owned a Bushmaster and I own LMT and BCM guns. We have a few Colts at work and they are good to go. Get the Colt and you will be ahead of the game.
Thanks for the info fellas. USMCVET you are correct sir, reading the chart for myself was quite eye opening. I currently have a bushmaster but have been looking at Colts and Daniel Defense lately for a work rifle, and apparently my instincts towards those two is on the money. Thanks again.
It is a lot easier to make your decision armed with solid information. Good luck.
red_star_republic
12-30-10, 18:14
Jealous
Is your agency hiring? :sarcastic:
no1ofconsequence
12-30-10, 22:29
FiveOh417,
LE & armorer in So.Cal @ agency with NO restrictions on personal purchases... (the department purchases Colt 6920's). I personally purchased a 6940 last year & couldn't be happier!
I steer all my coworkers towards 6920 / 6940 (from ProForce or Botach) for their personal purchases without reservation ...though some have insisted on Bushy's. :rolleyes:
PM me if you need further.
Colt all the way!! (since BCM is not on your list)lol
arizonaranchman
12-30-10, 23:31
Definitely Colt would be my first choice by a long shot. Prices are down lately so you should be able to get one for a decent price these days.
S&W would be my second choice and BM definitely a distant 3rd...
Mount an Aimpoint a Troy folding BUIS, weapon light and a good sling and you'll be in business.
I agree with the above posts: #1 Colt, #2 S&W and #3 Bushmaster. If your Department opens up your choices a bit there are some other great options out there as well. I just came across a great article thread at http://survivalcache.com/survival-rifle-survival-carbine-ar15-part-6/ but if you're limited to the three choices you mentioned I would say Colt is the way to go! Good luck!!
I don't think anyone has specifically pointed this out yet, but I beleive of the three makes, only the Colt is offered with a 1-7 twist barrel. This gives you greater ammo choice, especially for LE work. If you have specific issued rounds, this may or may not be relevant.
Colt of the three, S&W second, period. ;)
RogerinTPA
01-03-11, 16:58
I don't think anyone has specifically pointed this out yet, but I beleive of the three makes, only the Colt is offered with a 1-7 twist barrel. This gives you greater ammo choice, especially for LE work. If you have specific issued rounds, this may or may not be relevant.
It wasn't necessary since Smith having a 1/9 twist, is common knowledge, at least on this forum. A 1/7 twist is the better choice, but most law enforcement agencies ammo selection from 45gr up to 62gr will work just fine with a 1/9 twist for the average patrol officer. If SWAT, most would ensure that they all had 6920s to give them the broader range of effective ammo out there, from 55 gr up to 77gr.
If I was a Cop here in Cali, I would go Colt and never look back. I want one and can't have one because I am not LE.
Why can't you own a colt being a non-LE?
pilotguyo540
01-04-11, 21:17
Why can't you own a colt being a non-LE?
You can own a pre ban colt. Colt is on "the list" so it is a no go for us "citizens." Remember, in Kali, we have to ask for permission to use our rights.
I believe that you can have an OLL with Colt lpk and a Colt upper. That shouldn't be outside the rules. :confused: And it is as close to a complete Colt as one can get.
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