For the love of God we need more FDE lowers. [Archive]

Leonidas24

12-26-10, 23:27

This is something that has always bothered me -- disregard the fact that I have a sort of fetish for anodized FDE -- but what's with the limited assortment of FDE lowers? I know it's kind of a niche product, but something about anodized FDE jumps out. I'm all about spending a little extra money and supporting the economy, but I'm a "here and now" kind of guy, and am too impatient to send off my lower to US Anodizing (not hatin', just sayin'). I've seen the McKay FDE lowers offered by Nodak Spud, and they're nice, but they're sold out. Spike's and LWRC only offer their FDE/MRE colors as complete rifles. Sonju has a couple good looking billet sets but I'm not sure how they match up to other companies.

Seriously I'd probably poop my pants if Daniel Defense started offering lowers in their uber awesome RIS II FDE tone. I don't know why I'm posting this, maybe I'm just reaching out for similar opinions. A FDE addiction group would be nice right about now. Discuss.

~ Rob

decodeddiesel

12-27-10, 00:14

Here here. I would love to see factory anodized FDE uppers and lowers from DD or anyone else for that matter.

Robb Jensen

12-27-10, 00:21

Lots of companies would offer FDE on upper and lowers. The real problem is that then you'll have 1000s of people bitching that the color of one upper doesn't match one lower etc (as if color effects function). Anodizing is hard to get consistent. Adding colors makes it even harder. Example: Look at some all metal Surefire lights in gray Type III anodizing. Many will have a tube, bezel and tailcap in 3 different shades of gray.

Personally I love my FDE BCM lower even if it doesn't match my black BCM upper. ;) Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but there are those that would lose sleep since the upper and lower are different colors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/BCM14mid.jpg

kmrtnsn

12-27-10, 00:23

Duracoat is your friend.

sammage

12-27-10, 00:53

Duracoat is your friend.

Ditto. Hell, I'm in Wichita too...I have some Aervoe coyote and light coyote rattle can you can borrow to tide you over.

anto

12-27-10, 01:08

C3 Defense has some, but they're always OOS from what i've seen, and the colors aren't as enticing as the McKay ones.

decodeddiesel

12-27-10, 01:19

Duracoat is your friend.

True, but Type III anodizing >> Duracoat.

FromMyColdDeadHand

12-27-10, 01:43

True, but Type III anodizing >> Duracoat.

I think Cerakote is a nice alternative to both. The high bake temp stuff is tough. FDE anodizing is just an odd shade, which ever it ends ups being- it just looks unnatural- the SIG FDE anodizing being the worst.

Roadblock

12-27-10, 02:48

Well one thing to take into consider and I use this as an example, Magpuls dark earth is Magpuls dark earth. It's their own color.

Daniel Defense is using the new SOCOM approved dark earth a totally different color yet.

Another example would be Gear Sector, there Dark Earth a.k.a. Patriot Brown is their own color too.

Then take into account that plastic parts will never be quite the same as metal parts... My point is, they are NOT going to match. Personally I think they look DAMN nice with multiple shades of brown/tan.

I like the idea of Cerakoting myself. I think I'm going to get a Daniel Defense stripped lower and have it sent out to be Cerakoted along with an upper to match then build something with them. The other parts, I don't care if they match exactly or not.

Oh speaking of... Go look at the dark earth FN SCAR.. That thing doesn't even match from the factory. Maybe with guns like that coming out, people will complain a little less about matching stuff and more makers will jump on the dark earth band wagon.

RAM Engineer

12-27-10, 03:49

In an attempt to save this thread from TOS-ness, allow me to be the one to suggest spray paint.

chadbag

12-27-10, 04:51

Leonidas24

12-27-10, 06:58

Personally I love my FDE BCM lower even if it doesn't match my black BCM upper. ;)

More than anything that's what has me wanting a lower like that. I already have a lower that's coated in... some ugly COTS brand gun rattle, but nonetheless it is FDE and I attained the desired effect with the rifle I was building at the time. Regardless, it is sprayed on and is starting to rub off. I don't believe that form trumps function any day, but being a $2k gun, I'd like it to remain looking nice for many years.

Overall I'd just like an FDE anodized lower to go with my FDE anodized rail.

Nevermiss

12-27-10, 07:14

I have't gone as far as having my upper and lower receiver coated, however, I do have quite a bit of FDE accessories on my Noveske 6.8 12.5" SBR.

I have sent my Eotech EXPS 2-0 shroud and my Surefire "E" series body and Malkoff VME head off to http://www.acoating.com/ to have them finished in Cerakote that is almost identical to the Magpul FDE. My Gear Sector FDE light mount is very close to the Magpul FDE.

My next build will just get sprayed with Aervoe as described in the lightfighter forum.

I used to be anal about "matching colors", etc., but having kids has beaten some of these tendencies from me.

Deaj

12-27-10, 08:30

...but having kids has beaten some of these tendencies from me.

Game changers for sure. :)

kaiservontexas

12-27-10, 09:26

Non matching fde is probably better than matching fde. While a solid mass of brown is probably better than a solid mass of black from a "camo" perspective, it is still a large mass of single uniform color. Non matching fde breaks that up into smaller patches and breaks things up.

Having said that, non matching-ness is surely a major reason it is not offered more often.

I was just thinking that when I began to read this thread. To me it would be no big deal since it breaks it up just a bit. Still I can understand how some people may get turned off by it. The first thing seen is the finish of a firearm. Given decades of collectors and Fudd types talking about grading a firearm, where by they go on and on about the finish first, it is not surprising to me that the attitude transfers over into the modern world of rifles. Where by some of us would be all, "that would make a great BFPU looking rifle!" We are more concerned about mechanical function then if the drapes match the carpet.

MistWolf

12-27-10, 16:10

...Given decades of collectors and Fudd types talking about grading a firearm, where by they go on and on about the finish first, it is not surprising to me that the attitude transfers over into the modern world of rifles. Where by some of us would be all, "that would make a great BFPU looking rifle!" We are more concerned about mechanical function then if the drapes match the carpet.

The attitude comes from an age when the expectation of firearms was that they always worked even in the worst conditions and fit & finish were a mark of pride in workmanship. Firearms were relied on to keep people alive during a time when folks judged others by their actions and the quality of their craftsmanship and care they gave their equipment

LONGBOWAH

12-27-10, 19:14

Here here. I would love to see factory anodized FDE uppers and lowers from DD or anyone else for that matter.

Good call...a "full" DD FDE would be nice.

Or bring back the Brown Recluse.

SpookyPistolero

12-27-10, 19:34

RogerinTPA

12-27-10, 20:42

Well one thing to take into consider and I use this as an example, Magpuls dark earth is Magpuls dark earth. It's their own color.

Daniel Defense is using the new SOCOM approved dark earth a totally different color yet.

Another example would be Gear Sector, there Dark Earth a.k.a. Patriot Brown is their own color too.

Nothing new about SOCOM FDE. It's been out for years. After they made the announcement, several manufacturers had a metric shit ton of plastic gun parts in "Desert Sand " and or "Desert Tan". I still have a few old catalogs that stated desert tan or sand one year, then FDE a year later after the announcement, and it's the same color. Since hardly anyone knew what the actual color was for SOCOM FDE, all of the "Desert Sand/Tan" was re-branded Flat Dark Earth, and sold as such to this day. The only manufacturer that I know of who actually made items in SOCOM FDE was Daniel Defense (Rails) and LMT in SOPMOD stocks, even then, it wasn't a true FDE color, but was close enough.

BAC

12-27-10, 21:26

Who cares about the color? I'm not being a dick, I just genuinely don't grasp what cosmetics have to do with a fighting tool. And if that's of importance, just spray paint it all. At least the color will be uniform.

I think the idea is more modern rifle makers are wising up to the idea of breaking up the BLACK rifle image, sometimes for political reasons (Remington), sometimes for practical reasons (FN SCAR, Magpul Masada, Tan/Brown/whatever SR-15 E3 IWS, etc.). Both of these perspectives make sense. Rifles decked out in RealTree are more palatable to certain target audiences. Black rifles are harder to camouflage than brown/tan rifles (at the very least, it takes more effort to break up a black rifle than a brown/tan rifle). Many of us in sunny climes like avoiding black for obvious reasons.

-B

markm

12-27-10, 21:31

In an attempt to save this thread from TOS-ness, allow me to be the one to suggest spray paint.

This whole sight has been sliding the ARFtard direction lately. +1 on the spray can. You can even..... repaint scratches. :eek:

SpookyPistolero

12-27-10, 21:35

I think the idea is more modern rifle makers are wising up to the idea of breaking up the BLACK rifle image, sometimes for political reasons (Remington), sometimes for practical reasons (FN SCAR, Magpul Masada, Tan/Brown/whatever SR-15 E3 IWS, etc.). Both of these perspectives make sense. Rifles decked out in RealTree are more palatable to certain target audiences. Black rifles are harder to camouflage than brown/tan rifles (at the very least, it takes more effort to break up a black rifle than a brown/tan rifle). Many of us in sunny climes like avoiding black for obvious reasons.

-B

Good reasons.

decodeddiesel

12-27-10, 21:50

This whole sight has been sliding the ARFtard direction lately. +1 on the spray can. You can even..... repaint scratches. :eek:

Yeah well, no issues hitting my rifle with some rattle can, but I would like to see some type III annodized FDE components.

Leonidas24

12-27-10, 22:49

This whole sight has been sliding the ARFtard direction lately. +1 on the spray can. You can even..... repaint scratches. :eek:

If wanting an anodized FDE lower makes me an ARFtard, then color me purple and so be it. I see nothing wrong with desiring a more permanent finish than krylon. I carried an all black rifle for 11 months in less desirable places than Kansas, and didn't like many aspects of it. What's wrong with wanting a rifle to my specs that just happens to be aesthetically pleasing as well as being more than capable at putting someone down should the need arise?

.45fmjoe

12-27-10, 23:17

Damn, I guess I deleted the picture I had of my Spike's Tactical FDE receiver set.

One day I'm going to make a fun carbine out of it. I might even make it a 6.8 SPC for hog hunting. :dance3:

strambo

12-28-10, 00:24

I'd love to see more FDE anodized options and don't care about perfect color matches. Then...some foliage anodizing for extra credit!

FromMyColdDeadHand

12-28-10, 00:46

Nothing new about SOCOM FDE. It's been out for years. After they made the announcement, several manufacturers had a metric shit ton of plastic gun parts in "Desert Sand " and or "Desert Tan". I still have a few old catalogs that stated desert tan or sand one year, then FDE a year later after the announcement, and it's the same color. Since hardly anyone knew what the actual color was for SOCOM FDE, all of the "Desert Sand/Tan" was re-branded Flat Dark Earth, and sold as such to this day. The only manufacturer that I know of who actually made items in SOCOM FDE was Daniel Defense (Rails) and LMT in SOPMOD stocks, even then, it wasn't a true FDE color, but was close enough.

Desert Sand (500) is the actual name of the lightest color in the ACU pattern. To me Coyote is closer to the FDE color than anything.

The only real camo I need is for my CCW gun to match my pasty belly in case I inadvertantly go open carry. Civy's like 3-gun guys camo'd up or guys at the range with the latest SOCOM colors kind of weirds me out. What the frick are you hiding from? I'd say most LEOs don't have use for camo'd rifles. I'd feel like a moron if a real operator started asking me about the camo on my rifle. I'd rather paint my rifle with sparkle paint than look like a wannab.

strambo

12-28-10, 01:13

I'd feel like a moron if a real operator started asking me about the camo on my rifle. I'd rather paint my rifle with sparkle paint than look like a wannab.I donno...I'm kind of in both worlds: 2 combat deployments and a stint as a security contractor in Baghdad...yet my deployments were in the Guard (infantry) and my interest in these sites is about my hobby of guns and my personal ARs. Now that I'm back for awhile, I'm just a civilian too ('cept 1 weekend a month).

I wouldn't ask, or care, about your camo'd AR (wouldn't enter my mind to do so). If you seemed squared away and had good gear that you knew how to use, I'd be happy that you could shoot and hope for as many guys like you as possible. To me a wannabe is someone who substitutes money for skill and/or training. Buying cool stuff and then not doing anything with it.

jaygee

12-28-10, 11:55

Funny, I have the same thoughts about an A2 buttstock! Now
everyone will just go out and tell me to paint the dumb thing, but
it will get scratched up in short order and then have to be repainted
on a pretty regular basis. Then, it will need to be completely stripped
periodically, as the paint builds up. This would also be true of an FDE
lower, but it would most likely hold up a while longer under use. I
just recently got into this whole FDE thing after purchasing a stock/
handie/ grip set in FDE at an irresistable price. The handie is a Cav.
Arms. 20" rifle set in true M4 config. (fat -top to bottom/ skinny-
side to side) Best move for me is to apply some flat black paint on
the handies, leaving the center section FDE, where it gets the most
handling...and then spray on some FDE to the buttstock in the center
area, where it would get the least handling. I'll put on the FDE MIAD
grip and have a semi camo weapon on the relatively cheap!

eternal24k

12-28-10, 12:43

This whole sight has been sliding the ARFtard direction lately. +1 on the spray can. You can even..... repaint scratches. :eek:

I really hate to agree, and not to sound like any elitist, but I dont even know where some of the new users are coming from. There has been a lot of empty posts (aesthetics) and a lot less utilization of the search function lately. When I found this site it was a refuge from the Arfcom crap, but it seems like it is overflowing a little lately. I don't know, I am sure members who have been here a lot longer will chime in and say things havent changed or it goes up and down...

BAC

12-28-10, 13:28

For me and for a lot of other folks, the search function hasn't been working at all. I only recently discovered the way to search through M4C via Google.

-B

eternal24k

12-28-10, 14:39

For me and for a lot of other folks, the search function hasn't been working at all. I only recently discovered the way to search through M4C via Google.

-B

Actually,
now that you mention it, certain items will not work when I try searching

reiswigt

12-29-10, 00:58

Sonju has a couple good looking billet sets but I'm not sure how they match up to other companies.
~ Rob

I don't personally own one, but have several friends who have Sonju products, and are pleased with the quality, as well as fit and finish. They appear to be a decent company with a nice product.

MikeCLeonard

12-29-10, 03:04

Civy's like 3-gun guys camo'd up or guys at the range with the latest SOCOM colors kind of weirds me out. What the frick are you hiding from? I'd say most LEOs don't have use for camo'd rifles. I'd feel like a moron if a real operator started asking me about the camo on my rifle. I'd rather paint my rifle with sparkle paint than look like a wannab.

Agreed that there are plenty of guys that embody the "Wanna-be" mentality both with their gear, and in their minds...BUT, this just seems like the same line of thinking that would make someone comment, "What do you need an assault rifle for? You're not military/leo, so you must just be a "Wanna-be" commando."

Camo assault rifles just make sense pertaining to their intended use...just as the other features that make them ideal at what they were designed to do.

I see camo/fde/natural colors as an evolutionary progression within the fighting firearms market. It's not new, but it certainly seems to be becoming more mainstream as we see big-names making factory fighting arms that are not just black anymore.

These suckers were designed to stop heart-beats...and the majority of the rifles we ooogle over here have (Designed to end life) ingrained in almost all their features/capabilities.

:D Not ranting...just, as seen through my eyes.

.45fmjoe

12-29-10, 06:49

I really hate to agree, and not to sound like any elitist, but I dont even know where some of the new users are coming from. There has been a lot of empty posts (aesthetics) and a lot less utilization of the search function lately. When I found this site it was a refuge from the Arfcom crap, but it seems like it is overflowing a little lately. I don't know, I am sure members who have been here a lot longer will chime in and say things havent changed or it goes up and down...

It's exactly the same thing that happened to the once amazing tech forums on ARFCOM. In fact, I'm currently having a debate about a Del-ton for a patrol carbine. I've been told I am talking about something I have never even handled. :rolleyes:

For straight technical info the tech forums here are much closer to what the tech forums on ARFCOM used to be. I have noticed in the past couple months or so the user base here is changing and the same retarded bullshit is popping up. I'm just waiting for the fit and finish crowd to congregate and begin their bayonet charge.

MistWolf

12-29-10, 07:02

Why get your panties in a twist when someone wants a permanent color other than black? It's not just aesthetics. During the Rhodesian Bush War, the Rhodesians interviewed terrs taken prisoner so they could learn how to fight their enemy more effectively. In this way the Rhodesians learned it was the black outline of the FN rifles that gave away the position of soldiers laying in ambush, or out on patrol, to the terroists. That's why the Rhodies took to painting their rifles using automotive paint of all things. Here's a picture of a Rhodesian FN rifle with what's left of it's original paint.
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae340/cookiemonster79/South%20African%20made%20R1/RdesnR12.jpg

So is it really arf-ghey to want a rifle with a permanent finish that has a lower signature? If you're going to limit an AR to just one color since it's going to be be painted, why not a lighter color that's easier to cover? Why bother adding color to the anodizing at all? Just sell the rifle in a dull silver finish with five different cans of matte spray paint for the do-it-yourselfer and be done with it. (To be honest, I'm thinking this last may not be such a bad idea...)

I understand we don't want to see discussions as to "which shade of OD would go best with my web gear" or "Should I get a skull themed camo or go for the titty pattern?", because THAT would be Arf-ghey :jester:

.45fmjoe

12-29-10, 07:20

Why get your panties in a twist when someone wants a permanent color other than black? It's not just aesthetics. During the Rhodesian Bush War, the Rhodesians interviewed terrs taken prisoner so they could learn how to fight their enemy more effectively. In this way the Rhodesians learned it was the black outline of the FN rifles that gave away the position of soldiers laying in ambush, or out on patrol, to the terroists. That's why the Rhodies took to painting their rifles using automotive paint of all things. Here's a picture of a Rhodesian FN rifle with what's left of it's original paint.

So is it really arf-ghey to want a rifle with a permanent finish that has a lower signature? If you're going to limit an AR to just one color since it's going to be be painted, why not a lighter color that's easier to cover? Why bother adding color to the anodizing at all? Just sell the rifle in a dull silver finish with five different cans of matte spray paint for the do-it-yourselfer and be done with it. (To be honest, I'm thinking this last may not be such a bad idea...)

I understand we don't want to see discussions as to "which shade of OD would go best with my web gear" or "Should I get a skull themed camo or go for the titty pattern?", because THAT would be Arf-ghey :jester:

No, wanting to paint your rifle is fine, and asking for different color receivers is cool if you want them. There is just this general tone of new questions leading to locked threads that is very reminiscent of what happened over there.

bobafett

12-29-10, 13:57

FromMyColdDeadHand

12-29-10, 16:40

Agreed that there are plenty of guys that embody the "Wanna-be" mentality both with their gear, and in their minds...BUT, this just seems like the same line of thinking that would make someone comment, "What do you need an assault rifle for? You're not military/leo, so you must just be a "Wanna-be" commando."

Great counterpoint.

I'm just afraid I'm going to drop my rifle and not be able to find it. ;)

.45fmjoe

12-29-10, 22:26

Ha! Found it.

http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad264/45fmjoe/Firearms/FDE.jpg

anto

01-01-11, 05:01

Anyone happen to have a picture of a completed rifle with just an FDE lower & black furniture?

Buck

01-01-11, 09:01

Anyone happen to have a picture of a completed rifle with just an FDE lower & black furniture?

Google is your friend...

7000

bobafett

01-01-11, 11:44

Google is your friend...

7000

Aw man... you just had to didn't you :cool:

eternal24k

01-01-11, 12:34

NOT MINE

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h52/flanntastic/outside006.jpg

and for what it's worth, colored anodizing tends to be less durable than black

anto

01-01-11, 15:30

Google is your friend...

7000

I've seen that picture, but that has an FDE lower, upper & rail. The spikes picture has an FDE upper and lower. I'm looking for a picture with just an FDE lower, black upper, black rail, black grip, etc.

MistWolf

01-01-11, 16:31

This is when http://pimpmygun.doctornoob.com/app.php is your friend
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/Other/Test.jpg

SomeOtherGuy

01-01-11, 20:40

and for what it's worth, colored anodizing tends to be less durable than black

True as a general rule, and any bright pretty colors will be less durable than the milspec class III, type 2 hard anodizing... BUT, FDE and a few other darker and duller colors (medium gray, OD green) can also be done to the class III, type 2 standard. Buy an FDE-anodized part from a quality company like Daniel Defense or Troy and it should have the same finish durability as a black-anodized part from the same company.