View Full Version : Bringing SBR to a Gunshow
Heavyweight
12-27-10, 15:34
Good Afternoon Gentlemen,
I'm new to the forum and new to the world of NFA. I've been shooting the AR platform for about 10 years now and I've just submitted my first Form 1 for an SBR.
My question is (once I get my stamp and build my SBR) do any of you guys have problems bringing your items into gunshows? I don't have any intention of ever selling my SBR in that venue but I do like to bring my gear when I'm shopping for accessories and whatnot. There's nothing like having your weapon available to try on all the goodies so you can see immediately if it's going to be a goat **** or not. Obviously I'll have to have a copy of my Form 1 and stamp. And maybe I'm just a little paranoid being new to NFA items. Feels like every cop and "G-Man" is going to be eyeballing me and saying, "Papers Please"! Even in the gun friendly state of Texas.....I know it's mostly my imagination.
Wanted to also say thanks to all of you regular posters. I got everything I needed on this forum for my Form 1 submission and trust setup.
Be safe!
Heavyweight
I have brought my SBR to gun shows before for that exact intended purpose of seeing how accessories would work with it. It has never been a problem, and not once has anyone asked to look at my paperwork. I think it all boils down to how you present yourself. I come to gun shows very cleanly dressed, and I am a low-key person. If I came in with my jeans around my ankles and tattoos on my neck I may be asked to present some paperwork.
Ilove2shoot
12-27-10, 19:49
Whenever I carry any of the NFA items I bring shruken copies of the Forms with me. Around here, there usually is a deputy at the entrance to the shows and I have seen them ask about paperwork....I have even seen a middle aged guy get arrested for having a SBR. he had no idea it was iilegal and had bought the upper at a gunshow cause it looked neat......atleast that was the story he was telling while being cuffed. do not know whatever happened to him.......
but always carry a copy of you Form 1 or 4 with you for each NFA item you have out with you.
I'm trying to figger out what accessories you'd need to have the whole gun there to check out. :confused:
i took a SBR into the gunshow once. i met my buddy at a park-and-ride and we took his car through the gate to save on parking, and there really wasn't any great place to stash our rifles in his hundai.. plus, he was taking his in for the purpose you listed, so i unloaded and slug mine too.
aside from feeling a little silly, i had no "problems." i did have a couple douche-bags question me... "you got your papers for that?" which was followed by a long, uninteresting story about how the cops will "nab" you at the door as you leave.
as if anybody walking around with a slung SBR doesn't have his form 1/4 with him. :rolleyes:
passed a number of cops, none took a second glance.
titsonritz
12-27-10, 22:30
as if anybody walking around with a slung SBR doesn't have his form 1/4 with him. :rolleyes:
Exactly and if not, he doesn't need one in the first place for being a dumb ass.
Why would someone be a dumbass for not having their Form 1/4 with them? AFAIK there is no requirement to do so.
Is this just your personal feeling?
Exactly and if not, he doesn't need one in the first place for being a dumb ass.
99% of LE won't even think to look at it, BUT, if you do run across the guy 'in the know', it is best to have a copy with you. That has been the 'rule' ever since I can remember. Could eliminte potential hassles.
Heavyweight
12-28-10, 09:15
I'm trying to figger out what accessories you'd need to have the whole gun there to check out. :confused:
Optics, VFGs....anything that mounts on the rails. It's great to be able to see how they fit and feel (and look) as a whole package before buying.
Army Chief
12-28-10, 09:43
Optics, VFGs....anything that mounts on the rails. It's great to be able to see how they fit and feel (and look) as a whole package before buying.
I understand what you're saying, though my initial reaction pretty much mirrored markm's. Unless you're just starting out as an AR/SBR owner, you've probably got enough hands-on time with other configurations and carbines to have a pretty good idea what a certain component is or is not going to do for your setup. Even where that might not really be the case, it seems unlikely that you're going to glean a lot of useful information from test fitting something for five minutes while standing next to a table at the typical gun show. Not impossible ... just unlikely.
Since it is a fair assumption that most NFA owners aren't going to be looking to sell their SBR on the spot, there is really only one other logical assumption, and that is simply that the owner is looking to show off a bit. That might not always be the case, but it does follow a certain logic, since most experienced NFA owners have long since learned that discretion is the better part of valor, and they are far more likely to keep the weapon cased, or otherwise away from prying eyes and do-gooders who view it as their civic duty to hassle folks over their paperwork.
None of this is meant as a pre-judgment of your specific situation, but unless you happen to be walking around at Knob Creek, you can pretty much expect most trained observers to spy your SBR and presume that you are either very green, or someone in search of validation -- neither of which will do much to help in the credibility department.
AC
I understand what you're saying, though my initial reaction pretty much mirrored markm's. Unless you're just starting out as an AR/SBR owner, you've probably got enough hands-on time with other configurations and carbines to have a pretty good idea what a certain component is or is not going to do for your setup. Even where that might not really be the case, it seems unlikely that you're going to glean a lot of useful information from test fitting something for five minutes while standing next to a table at the typical gun show. Not impossible ... just unlikely.
Since it is a fair assumption that most NFA owners aren't going to be looking to sell their SBR on the spot, there is really only one other logical assumption, and that is simply that the owner is looking to show off a bit. That might not always be the case, but it does follow a certain logic, since most experienced NFA owners have long since learned that discretion is the better part of valor, and they are far more likely to keep the weapon cased, or otherwise away from prying eyes and do-gooders who view it as their civic duty to hassle folks over their paperwork.
None of this is meant as a pre-judgment of your specific situation, but unless you happen to be walking around at Knob Creek, you can pretty much expect most trained observers to spy your SBR and presume that you are either very green, or someone in search of validation -- neither of which will do much to help in the credibility department.
AC
It was me and it was allowed, I would carry it cased. Just to avoid the a-holes..... and if you buy something you don't have to lug around a couple of plastic bags.
i took a SBR into the gunshow once. i met my buddy at a park-and-ride and we took his car through the gate to save on parking, and there really wasn't any great place to stash our rifles in his hundai.. plus, he was taking his in for the purpose you listed, so i unloaded and slug mine too.
aside from feeling a little silly, i had no "problems." i did have a couple douche-bags question me... "you got your papers for that?"
I'm fairly certain that if I was in that situation, my reply would probably consist of asking said jackass if they drove to the gunshow, and if so, if they had (or if I could see, depending on the question I was asked initially) their driver's license, vehicle registration and proof of insurance...followed by an about face and walking away.
To the OP, it's likely a non-issue. Bring your paperwork if that will make you feel more comfortable.
That said, I'm finding myself in total agreement with AC.
Heavyweight
12-28-10, 10:46
I understand what you're saying, though my initial reaction pretty much mirrored markm's. Unless you're just starting out as an AR/SBR owner, you've probably got enough hands-on time with other configurations and carbines to have a pretty good idea what a certain component is or is not going to do for your setup. Even where that might not really be the case, it seems unlikely that you're going to glean a lot of useful information from test fitting something for five minutes while standing next to a table at the typical gun show. Not impossible ... just unlikely.
Since it is a fair assumption that most NFA owners aren't going to be looking to sell their SBR on the spot, there is really only one other logical assumption, and that is simply that the owner is looking to show off a bit. That might not always be the case, but it does follow a certain logic, since most experienced NFA owners have long since learned that discretion is the better part of valor, and they are far more likely to keep the weapon cased, or otherwise away from prying eyes and do-gooders who view it as their civic duty to hassle folks over their paperwork.
None of this is meant as a pre-judgment of your specific situation, but unless you happen to be walking around at Knob Creek, you can pretty much expect most trained observers to spy your SBR and presume that you are either very green, or someone in search of validation -- neither of which will do much to help in the credibility department.
AC
I just assumed everyone would understand I meant carrying it cased. The only problem in my mind could come from the LEO that checks in all the weapons....not all LEOs are weapons experts and I just wanted to see if any of you guys have had trouble.
I am very new to SBRs. This will be my first build. I'm thinking I don't want to go to the hassle of, say, ordering three different VFGs to see which one I like best. I know what I like on my AR/M4 but I'm assuming the SBR will have some unique characteristics. That's all. I have no desire to draw more attention to myself than necessary.
I started to get offended that anyone would think I was so green...then I realized you guys don't know me from Adam and Chief's remarks were just trying to keep me from making an ass of myself. So thank you! Great forum, great info.
Heavyweight
AC is correct. You will lose any credibility you might gain just by being cool versus if you run around gunshows with your NFA piece. Generally the macho guys with all the bravado are looked upon with some disdain, at least from my perspective. Some guys, often but not solely the younger ones, have a hard time containing their 'enthusiasm' we'll call it. The best policy is to fly below the radar.
Why would someone be a dumbass for not having their Form 1/4 with them? AFAIK there is no requirement to do so.
There are some good reasons to carry it depending on your State laws.
ORS 166.272 Unlawful possession of machine guns, certain short-barreled firearms and firearms silencers...
(3) A peace officer may not arrest or charge a person for violating subsection (1) of this section if the person has in the person’s immediate possession documentation showing that the machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer is registered as required under federal law.
Todd,
I fully understand that it's smart thing to do and I have been known to stash my paperwork when I am out and about. But, my point was that calling particular persons dumbasses and stating that by not doing so they don't need them in the first place is ridiculous.
There are some good reasons to carry it depending on your State laws.
ORS 166.272 Unlawful possession of machine guns, certain short-barreled firearms and firearms silencers...
(3) A peace officer may not arrest or charge a person for violating subsection (1) of this section if the person has in the person’s immediate possession documentation showing that the machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer is registered as required under federal law.
I got a story for you. My friend has a legally registered full auto with a short barrel on it. Now SBR's are illegal as hell in my state, no paperwork will get you one unless it's full auto.
We went down to the gunshow one weekend and he brought it with to find some accessories for it, mostly to show off I'm sure.
Two cops in uniform walk up and one of them says wow thats a nice looking gun. What brand is it? My friend responses COLT M16 with a LWRC PSD upper. The cops like NICE! I have a M6A2, from LWRC, I thought that was the PSD upper. How to you like it? My friend responded that it was a NICE upper, shoots great and comments on how much he prefers the gas short stroke for a full auto. The cop says oh, it's full auto too? Wow that must have set you back a little bit. My friend says yea, I saved for a couple years. The cop said I bet...
The cops NEVER asked if he had paperwork for a full auto short barreled AR. They just must have assumed he did. Frankly, they didn't care.
Have a PS90 SBR. Took it to the gun show as the light I was using on the side rail made the clearance for optics a bit skimpy. when selecting optics it was important to place them on the rail to see what kind of clearance there is.
I actually went to the gun show on a Sunday after church in my suit and top-coat... carrying the PS90 with two point sling... no magazine and a red zip-tie/flag in the action. Copy of paperwork in my suit.
A lot of inquiries from fellow shoppers, but no problems or unreasonable questions. Perhaps it was the suit.....
Of course western Pennsylvania population is almost as pro-gun as Texas/Arizona...
Have a PS90 SBR. Took it to the gun showas the light I was using on the side rail made the clearance for optics a bit skimpy. when selecting optics it was important to place them on the rail to see what kind of clearance there is.
I actually went to the gun show on a Sunday after church in my suit and top-coat... carrying the PS90 with two point sling... no magazine and a red zip-tie/flag in the action. Copy of paperwork in my suit.
A lot of inquiries from fellow shoppers, but no problems or unreasonable questions. Perhaps it was the suit.....
With all due respect, I think this was exactly the point AC was making, why do it? To play Secret Service man? Do you really want or need the attention of the gun show buffoons?
There is plenty of information available on weapons and lights, and it is unlikely the gun show cirucuit is going to be a huge help that you couldn't get more discreetly elswhere .
To each his own.
With all due respect, I think this was exactly the point AC was making, why do it? To play Secret Service man? Do you really want or need the attention of the gun show buffoons?
There is plenty of information available on weapons and lights, and it is unlikely the gun show cirucuit is going to be a huge help that you couldn't get more discreetly elswhere .
To each his own.
"to each his own" is sort of contrary to your previous super insulting comments. maybe he was "playing secret service," maybe he was just looking for a light and didn't give it enough thought to think, "oh wait- people will think i'm 'playing secret service' if i walk in there in my church clothes with an SBR slung. guess i better not."
this thread has gotten ridiculous. the above post is nothing more than somebody seizing an opportunity to condescend.
bkb000 -
My guess, and perhaps I was wrong, if he was savvy enought to SBR a PS90, then he would have been savvy enough to get a light w/o walking around a gunshow with what would appear to be a machinegun hanging over his shoulder, or shoud I quote "carrying the PS90 with two point sling". Mmmmm. Several posts in the thread have alluded to this, and his story seems to support what AC previously stated as follows:
I understand what you're saying, though my initial reaction pretty much mirrored markm's. Unless you're just starting out as an AR/SBR owner, you've probably got enough hands-on time with other configurations and carbines to have a pretty good idea what a certain component is or is not going to do for your setup. Even where that might not really be the case, it seems unlikely that you're going to glean a lot of useful information from test fitting something for five minutes while standing next to a table at the typical gun show. Not impossible ... just unlikely.
Since it is a fair assumption that most NFA owners aren't going to be looking to sell their SBR on the spot, there is really only one other logical assumption, and that is simply that the owner is looking to show off a bit. That might not always be the case, but it does follow a certain logic, since most experienced NFA owners have long since learned that discretion is the better part of valor, and they are far more likely to keep the weapon cased, or otherwise away from prying eyes and do-gooders who view it as their civic duty to hassle folks over their paperwork.
None of this is meant as a pre-judgment of your specific situation, but unless you happen to be walking around at Knob Creek, you can pretty much expect most trained observers to spy your SBR and presume that you are either very green, or someone in search of validation -- neither of which will do much to help in the credibility department.
AC
You completely misunderstood my post. I HAD to take the PS90 SBR with me BECAUSE the light I put on the side rail did not allow clearance for just any optic. For example, my EOTECH mount held the optic too low and the light was in the way... preventing mounting.
I wanted to purchase an optic and could only "test" if it would fit by actually having the gun along and putting it on the rail. As I went directly from church the clothing was happenstance.
Simple as that.
The OP asked questions about people giving him problems.... I cited a specific situation that happened to me and told him what my experience was. As comments were made about "don't look like a douchbag" I gave a full description. That is all.
That was the first and last time I took a firearm to a gun show. If the situation and effective browsing demands I take my rifle for my own convenience.... I will make sure I get your permission next time.
Heavyweight
12-28-10, 16:35
I started the thread because I just wanted to know if anyone had a bad LEO experience bringing an SBR to a gunshow...even with their Form 1/4 in hand. And I got my answer...seems like it's not a problem whether I keep it cased or slung. Good deal. But the thread turned into this, "if you bring your SBR to a gunshow you are a wannabe Secret Service macho douchebag". I like to bring my weapon to the show when searching for accessories. To me it's a big help to see/feel everything put together. If that makes me inexperienced so be it. And personally, whether I want to be low key discreet or veg out in my finest ghillie suite and stalk from table to table whispering in hushed tones, I don't give a rat **** what a bunch of strangers at a gunshow think about me.
Be Safe!
Heavyweight
Army Chief
12-28-10, 17:09
I'm going to presume that we're in general agreement that this one has run it's course.
AC
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