Does Anyone Doubt This For A Second?

[Business_Casual]

NYC union accused of a "job action" during the blizzard.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/nyc/sanitation-union-fires-back-at-accusations-of-slow-down-20101229-KC

B_C

[GermanSynergy]

Not surprised in the least......


NYC union accused of a "job action" during the blizzard.

http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/local_news/nyc/sanitation-union-fires-back-at-accusations-of-slow-down-20101229-KC

B_C

[Littlelebowski]

Not a bit. I hate unions and the president they put into office.

[Alpha Sierra]

Not a bit. I hate unions and the president they put into office.
Same here.

Contract negotiations are probably due in a few months.

[kal]

That's what happens when you live in the city.

Chains are illegal, studded tires are too, no treads/snowmobiles allowed, blah ****ing blah....

Ain't no wonder why commerce gets affected. If you have to rely on another entity to fix your ability to engage in commerce, then you live in the wrong place.

[Complication]

My sister and brother-in-law live in NYC. The snow they got was unimaginable and everything ground to a halt.

His Facebook status from the following day reads: "Crashed and/or stalled cars, sheets of wind, 4-ft slush, homeless grandmas, sirens, no mail, a many-headed serpent with feet of gold, fire from heaven, nuclear winter. Happy holidays."

After seeing this video, I'm at least inclined to believe there's the possibility that they were simply overwhelmed:
http://vimeo.com/18213768

ETA: Also, it's tough to plow streets when cars are abandoned all over them.

[GermanSynergy]

Amen, brother!

Union thuggery at it's finest.


Not a bit. I hate unions and the president they put into office.

[Complication]

I'm not sure what...

20 inches of snow
Cars and buses and plows abandoned or stuck in the middle of streets
Local media not alerting people of the impending storm until the day before
The sanitation dept. being cut by 400 people well before the storm
Workers who had the day off because of Christmas
And 20 freaking inches of snow


...have to do with unions.

I mean, union-bash away, but that seems a bit off-topic to me.

I'm sure you can argue that if the workers weren't unionized they'd have it cleaned up faster. But there's only so many places you can plow 20 inches of snow in a f'ing city... And what the hell does this have to do with the President's election?

I thought wild tangents like this were why they restricted posting in GD?

[Business_Casual]

Did you read the article?

I've lived through blizzards and it is possible to deal with heavy snowfalls. In fact, many cities plow the snow without dragging front end loaders across the sides of Ford Explorers, unlike NYC.

If you don't like where I posted this you can call 1-800-pound sand.

B_C

[ChicagoTex]

I'm not sure what...

* 20 inches of snow
* Cars and buses and plows abandoned or stuck in the middle of streets
* Local media not alerting people of the impending storm until the day before
* The sanitation dept. being cut by 400 people well before the storm
* Workers who had the day off because of Christmas
* And 20 freaking inches of snow


...have to do with unions.

I mean, union-bash away, but that seems a bit off-topic to me.

I'm sure you can argue that if the workers weren't unionized they'd have it cleaned up faster. But there's only so many places you can plow 20 inches of snow in a f'ing city... And what the hell does this have to do with the President's election?

I thought wild tangents like this were why they restricted posting in GD?

I could hug you right now.

Having lived in Chicago (a town that's certainly no stranger to it's share of cataclysmic blizzards) for the vast majority of my life, I can tell you that anything beyond relatively nominal snowfall (say 10" or less) creates massive cascading logistical problems (namely lots of people and/or their abandoned vehicles blocking roads in desperately need of plowing/salting) that simply can't be solved no matter how hard the sanitation dept works, especially if they're being held up by ill-prepared towing, law enforcement, or emergency medical services.

[Complication]

Did you read the article?

I've lived through blizzards and it is possible to deal with heavy snowfalls. In fact, many cities plow the snow without dragging front end loaders across the sides of Ford Explorers, unlike NYC.

If you don't like where I posted this you can call 1-800-pound sand.

B_C

Yes, I read the "article." In it's entirety this is the point it makes:
Some people say the speed at which the snow was removed was inadequate and speculated that it was intentional. Some people say the volume of the snow and the unusually large volume of traffic stuck in the snow in the middle of the roads was what slowed the snow removal. The article offers a SINGLE fact: the spokesperson for the Sanitation Dept. workers disagrees with your implication.

It's nice that you've lived through blizzards. I have too. A number of them in CT, a number of the right on the lake in Cleveland. And it's a hell of a lot easier to clear rural and suburban streets than it is to clear a city because the snow's got a place to go.

You asked if anyone doubted it. I said yes. I even offered explanations for why I doubted it. I never said your implication was false.

My reaction was to the fact that after your initial post the thread has appeared to have dissolved into blind union bashing. And I'm not against that. It just seems that you would have been better served (and the less misleading in the intent of your thread) if you had titled this post "Gosh, I hate Unions" and the entire content of your post had said, "Only post here if you agree with me."

So you can take your hostility and dial *69. If you didn't want people discussing the issue, you shouldn't have posted it. If you didn't want people offering alternative views, you shouldn't have posted it as a question ASKING for alternative views.

Chill out and have a little Christmas cheer.

[Business_Casual]

That's fair - and point well taken. Frankly I am tired of unions ****ing over my country so that lazy people can retire on a pension for doing jack shit to earn it.

B_C

[Complication]

That's fair - and point well taken. Frankly I am tired of unions ****ing over my country so that lazy people can retire on a pension for doing jack shit to earn it.

B_C

That's cool. And I'm totally willing to concede that a non-union outfit might very well have been able to clear it faster:

A non-union outfit would have cost the city less. So at least some of those 400 people let go due to budget cuts would have been able to stick around, making clearing the snow faster.
And a non-union outfit would probably have had fewer guys off for the holidays and on-duty (or at least there would have been greater incentive to come in to work for extra hours, etc.).


See? Some very valid points as to why the union made this problem worse. I'm just saying that:
1) it was a fk-ton of snow and
2) it's nicer to see actual arguments made rather than "raaahhhh, me hates that too!!!"

[Business_Casual]

Jesus, don't try to hug me, FFS.

[montanadave]

Jesus, don't try to hug me, FFS.

Cheese and crackers, guys, if I'd known everybody was getting together tomorrow night and braiding each other's hair, I wouldn't have shaved my head. :laugh:

Hope everybody has a safe New Year's Eve and a Happy New Year!

[Jay Cunningham]

I love these union-bashing threads. Bring out the torches and the pitchforks! Everybody in a union is evil and lazy! Everybody in a union voted for Obama!

:sarcastic:

[The_War_Wagon]

Mobsters don't seem to have any trouble picking up the trash. Timely & efficient, too.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/15/nyregion/15fridge.html?_r=1

[Littlelebowski]

I love these union-bashing threads. Bring out the torches and the pitchforks! Everybody in a union is evil and lazy! Everybody in a union voted for Obama!

:sarcastic:

There's many rational reasons for disliking unions based on absolute, verifiable facts. If you want to debate unions and how much they're costing employers and our country, I'd love to do so in a civil manner.

[kwelz]

Don't know about any of that.
but I will say that they are either:
A: Stupid
B: Just don't give a damn.
C: all of the above.

As for proof I give you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt_r-jO3lKE&feature=player_embedded

[Alex V]

I lived in Brooklyn through a couple of big storms and have never seen anything like this. Sure in NJ now I can expect for a plow not to come down my street until the second, and once the third day after a storm like this, but when I was in Brooklyn you would see plow equipped city garbage trucks running the streets from the time the first snow flake hit the ground.

This was clearly a breakdown in City Agency functionality. Someone dropped the ball and no one will be blamed I am sure.

I heard about the Union induced slowdown due to their believe that they got f*cked on the last contract negotiation but who the hell knows... I would not put it past them!

I also love the YouTube vid of the snow plow being pulled out by a tow truck and in the proses distroying an SUV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt_r-jO3lKE

Ignorant f*cks...

[Complication]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt_r-jO3lKE

Yeah, that takes a special brand of stupid. You can take solace in the fact that rich or poor, city or rural, union or not, there are stupid people everywhere.

[Redmanfms]

Yeah, that takes a special brand of stupid. You can take solace in the fact that rich or poor, city or rural, union or not, there are stupid people everywhere.

But for unions that brand of stupid usually ends up unemployed.

Public employee unions are disasters in the making, several states are going bankrupt because of them.

[Littlelebowski]

But for unions that brand of stupid usually ends up unemployed.

Public employee unions are disasters in the making, several states are going bankrupt because of them.

I couldn't have said it better myself

I have no problem with local only unions. But closed shops are evil.

[Complication]

I couldn't have said it better myself

I have no problem with local only unions. But closed shops are evil.

And unions probably offer a lot of extra protection for workers who are being unreasonably stupid. I'm just saying unions don't have a monopoly on stupid.

[Littlelebowski]

They certainly don't but they do help stupidity and waste become a monopoly.

[chadbag]

FWIW

Supposedly some workers "snitched" on the plan to the city:


http://www.nypost.com/f/print/news/local/sanit_filthy_snow_slow_mo_qH57MZwC53QKOJlekSSDJK

[Business_Casual]

If we don't sort out these public unions, we are doomed.

http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2010/12/19/public-pension-cost-coverup-the-effort-to-kill-transparency-on-public-sector-pensions/

B_C