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cqbdriver
12-30-10, 02:39
I was always interested in the Scout Rifle concept. I see that Ruger is introducing a scout rifle:
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/index.html

M77-GS
.308 Win.
5rd or 10rd mag (photo appears to show 20rd)
16.50" barrel
length 38.00" - 39.50"
Length of pull 12.75" - 14.25"
Wgt 7.00 lbs.
MSRP $995.00 (Still high in cost, but a lot better than Steyr)

Any one have experience with the M77 rifles to tell how their scout rifle might hold up?

rob_s
12-30-10, 04:48
Interesting. Too bad the rear iron sight appears to eliminate the ability to mount a conventional scope. I realize this is a "scout" and must therefore have a forward-mounted scope, but I'd prefer a low-power variable.

deadduck357
12-30-10, 05:28
Ruger has released their new Gunsite Scout Rifle. The rifle was designed in conjunction with Gunsite and based off Jeff Cooper's concept of what a scout rifle should entail.

Colonel Cooper's idea calls for a rifle of light weight, quick-handling, and chambering in a cartridge suitable for both fighting and hunting. This new offering - the latest evolution of the M77 - is highly adaptable to almost any conceivable role, featuring a 1913 Picatinny rail positioned adequately for either a forward-placed scout scope or any number of holographic or red-dot optics. Further, Ruger saw fit to make standard fixed iron sights such as those found on the Mini-14 and Mini-30. Removal of the rear sight will allow for use of a traditional hunting scope through Ruger's proprietary integral mounts. Notable also is the inclusion of the AC-556 styled flash suppressor (with muzzle threaded to 5/8x24 tpi) detachable in the event one wishes to affix a sound suppressor.

Taking into account the varying builds of the individual, the rifle's length of pull is adjustable by means of three spacers. The stock butt pad is soft and highly recoil absorbent. With a 16.5-in. barrel and chambered for .308 Win. my initial impression was that the rifle would give a brisk kick; that wasn't the case. To my surprise, recoil was negligible and led me to believe that the butt pad is highly shock dampening. The stock is black laminate and has a substantial feel not found in rifles fitted with polymer offerings.

The rifle feeds from either a 5-round or 10-round single stack detachable box magazine, which comes from the Accuracy International and Badger designs. Ruger opted for the single stack over the double with an aim of improving reliability. Releasing the magazine is accomplished through a lever similar to that of the Mini-14/30.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/431/45222429.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1201/59581970.jpg


I had the privilege of being invited to a gunwriters' review by Ruger for the unveiling at Gunsite. Needless to say I jumped at the chance. We spent three days at Gunsite - one for the introduction and initial range session, the second spent on our choice of shooting courses; the Scrambler was a blast. Temperatures were in the upper 50s during the day and the nights were in the upper 20s and lower 30s.
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5519/60642061.jpg


At the introduction we also received a Carhartt jacket embroidered with the Ruger label and a Ruger/Gunsite Scout Rifle shirt.
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8702/34395287.jpg

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/8094/14746147.jpg

The target is from Ruger's 50-yard testing of the rifle. After 4,170 rounds of Winchester Power Point 180-gr, an accuracy test was performed with 30 rounds and a Leupold scout scope. The result is this following group.
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7859/26223592.jpg

deadduck357
12-30-10, 05:29
The rifle I was given for review. Mine was fitted with a Burris 2.75 Scout Scope and a Ching Safari Sling. Other participants used rifles in varying configurations, including iron sites, conventional scope setups, and holographic red dots. In excess of twenty rifles were provided by Ruger. Overall length is 38.00 in - 39.50 in. depending on spacers used. Weight is 7 lbs.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7007/41852809.jpg

The distinctive AC-556 type flash suppressor. The rifling is 6 grooves in 1/10-in. RH twist.
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8176/26555016.jpg

Mag well and trigger group are a single unit. Visible here is the lever magazine release.
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1908/82380481.jpg

Gunsite's logo is prominently displayed on the bottom of the pistol grip.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4581/52632919.jpg

10-rd metal magazine.
http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/4219/79480021.jpg

5-rd metal magazine.
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/2069/28436907.jpg

The single column magazine.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6388/41973307.jpg

Loaded.
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3443/12056669.jpg

deadduck357
12-30-10, 05:30
The Gunsite instructors and range officers. Left to right: Il Ling New, Ed Head, Chris Weare, LaMonte Kintsel. All were very helpful. On the first day they all came across as hardasses, but by the third day they were easy to get along with.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1135/12644125.jpg

One of two racks of rifles.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9601/75172870.jpg

Il Ling New demonstrating the high ready position and handling of the rifle.
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/1568/36778484.jpg

Il Ling instructing on the kneeling position.
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/5628/96306923.jpg

And the sitting position.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8610/26928054.jpg
She knows her rifles.

First group on the firing line, shooter's choice kneeling or sitting.
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6385/62040636.jpg

Jeff Quinn putting the Scout rifle through its paces, offhand.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5792/70009242.jpg

Mark Gurney from Ruger (at right) and me at left. High ready.
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2909/81558543.jpg

deadduck357
12-30-10, 05:31
Another gunwriter running the Scrambler.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4190/75098289.jpg

Another stage.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5375/67941640.jpg

The Scout rifle, fitted with the 10-rd magazine.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9811/89149355.jpg

And the 5-rd.
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/6982/15717445.jpg

Left to right: Michael Bane, myself, and Jeff Quinn.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/1474/84486133.jpg

Three days at Gunsite. Lots of new stuff. Lots of good memorable times. I met a lot of good gun people, shot some new firearms, burned a lot of free ammo - what could be better?

Thanks to Ruger and Gunsite for the opportunity to participate and the experience. It was a blast.

cqbdriver
12-30-10, 05:44
According to the manual, the rear sight is removable & you can you standard Ruger scope rings. However, you would lose the backup iron sights. Unless if there is some way to place a rear sight on the forward rail, but it looks like the rail is too high for that. Or remove the rail & replace with a rear sight using the rail mounting points.

mark5pt56
12-30-10, 06:23
agree with the scope rail, it should be on the receiver with the sights higher, etc as mentioned. I would get one in a heartbeat if this was fixed.

But, for a modern iron sighted mag feed stick, not bad. I would imagine that someone could make a rail for the receiver and incorporate a rear sight to be in line with the front and allow for scope mounting at a reasonable height.
I approached Remington not long after I made my deer getter and they could care less about making something of the sort. Good on Ruger for the innovation, hopefully others will follow suite.

An idea would be to reverse a Larue EER mount on that rail and use a regular scope?

My brain child, should have the mag system this year(Manners, uses AICS mags)

Stock SPS in .308, barrel cut to 18"
Holland quick discharge brake(feels like a .223
NECG banded front sight, gold bar
Ashley rear with Leupold QRW rings and 1.5-5 PR scope(changing that out as it doesn't work well in low light(looking at the NF 1-4 CQB or Trijicon 1-4 TR24G)

MOA with match ammo

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/mark5pt56/002-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/mark5pt56/100_0982.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v509/mark5pt56/100_0983.jpg

mark5pt56
12-30-10, 07:13
Again, good on Ruger for thinking out of the box, I'm sure the others will wake up at some point. Someone already makes a Ruger to Weaver rear base for Ruger rifles, add an integral rear sight and you're in business----Ruger--you know you need to make it!

Not sure if the spacing would be correct on this puppy
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=15505/Product/RUGER_reg__CARBINE_BASE


Ideas for the meantime. Don't know how they would match up. If you used the Warne quick release Ruger rings, the Ruger receiver mount rear iron could be "stored" on the forward rail. The Warne back up might be the correct height to be mounted on the forwrd rail, many ideas, time will work this out.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=26091/Product/MAXIMA_RUGER_reg__BASE_QD_RINGS

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=48/Product/WEAVER_BACKUP_BASE

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9648/Product/RUGER_reg__RECEIVER_SIGHT

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=9643/Product/PEEP_SIGHT

tracker722
12-30-10, 11:13
**********************

Thomas M-4
12-30-10, 11:58
Interesting. Too bad the rear iron sight appears to eliminate the ability to mount a conventional scope. I realize this is a "scout" and must therefore have a forward-mounted scope, but I'd prefer a low-power variable.

Leupold makes a 1.4-4 power variable scout scope now rob_s if that makes a difference for you.
http://www.grizzlycustom.com/pagephotos/grizzly_custom_leupold_scout_scope_variable_1_640.jpg

ST911
12-30-10, 12:13
I was always interested in the Scout Rifle concept. I see that Ruger is introducing a scout rifle:
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/index.html

This is begging for a T1.

Arcana71
12-30-10, 12:20
Call me when Savage sells the same rifle with a synthetic stock and a magwell to take M1A mags for half the money. I'd also consider a Howa 1500, the Brownell's catalog and a well-equipped workshop as a consolation prize.

carbinero
12-30-10, 12:52
Maybe 10 years behind the demand curve, but good entry nonetheless. AI mags are a winner. Lam stock, good. Actually I prefer that, to make it easier to move the swivels to port side. Hopefully the stock is properly fitted. I like mark5.56's sights better. Threaded with flash hider, very nice. Thanks to XS for prototyping the full length rail, although that should have been done already. Should have been 18.5".
O.K., down to brass tacks. If it's under $750, it'll be a huge winner. But I think they'll charge at least $100 more, and for that people will think hard about a semi-auto.

also see: http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2010/12/ruger-scout-rifle.html

Tokarev
12-30-10, 13:09
Call me when Savage sells the same rifle with a synthetic stock and a magwell to take M1A mags for half the money. I'd also consider a Howa 1500, the Brownell's catalog and a well-equipped workshop as a consolation prize.

The Savage 110 series can't make it through a Gunsite 270 without parts breakage. :(

Tokarev
12-30-10, 13:12
Maybe 10 years behind the demand curve, but good entry nonetheless. AI mags are a winner. Lam stock, good. Actually I prefer that, to make it easier to move the swivels to port side. Hopefully the stock is properly fitted. I like mark5.56's sights better. Threaded with flash hider, very nice. Thanks to XS for prototyping the full length rail, although that should have been done already. Should have been 18.5".
O.K., down to brass tacks. If it's under $750, it'll be a huge winner. But I think they'll charge at least $100 more, and for that people will think hard about a semi-auto.

also see: http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2010/12/ruger-scout-rifle.html

18.5" would have been nice but 16" will serve the average hunter or sportsman just fine.

Retail is listed at $995 and the guns might sell for the mid-$800's initially. But I'll bet they'll go for $750 once the newness wears off.

Arcana71
12-30-10, 13:22
The Savage 110 series can't make it through a Gunsite 270 without parts breakage.Oh. I hadn't seen anything on that. Where can I see something on that?

rdc0000
12-30-10, 18:40
Howa has bottom metal and magazines available from Howa 800-553-4229. I have no idea about them, only the information.

I'm not a Ruger fan, but the compact versions are nice in 7-08 and these look nice as well. 7#'s I like also.

Something I don't like= "glass reinforced nylon trigger guard and magazine well"

deadduck357
12-30-10, 18:45
Okay...I like the idea of the rifle, (I have a scout rifle to begin with), but why do I feel as though I just read the latest edition of "Guns and Ammo"? Could you be a little more detailed on your thoughts of the rifle, likes-dislikes, construction, etc? How well did it shoot? Was a chrono available?

I am envious of you getting to do that, but good grief, don't make it sound like you are on the payroll.

My apologizes, we had to keep a lid on it till we got the OK, got the e-mail last night and tried to put it together asap.

To be honest I didn't think I would like it much. A short barreled 308 + bolt action + laminated stock are not really my tastes in rifles. But after the classroom time with Ruger and Ed Head on the process and progress that went into designing the Gunsite Scout, their purpose based of Coopers intent, they had my interest. After some range time and then running the Scrambler I was sold. We all(well not all) look at an AR or AK(self-loading) as our headin-for-th-hills arm, I know I do or did but the simplicity and reliability of a bolt gun make much more sense. I know any firearm can malfunction and needs maintenance but a gas driven firearm is more complicated(internally) and needs more care, a bolt gun just needs less.

That said, we didn't have bench time to wring out accuracy. Nor was there a chrono, no time anyway.

As for the laminated stock, I admit I'm probably a poly freak, but a solid stock makes a much better weapon than hollow plastic.

With the adjustable length spacers and whatever that buttpad is made out of it sure didn't feel like you were shooting a snub-nose 308 bolt gun. I actually enjoyed shooting it and didn't want to stop burning up the ammo when they called it quits. Being a short barrel handy rifle it move through the Scrambler with ease, enjoyed it so much ran back and got in line to run it again.

Hope this is a little more info.

red_star_republic
12-30-10, 18:47
:confused:I saw this rifle and thought . . .

One mans scout rifle is another mans rebirth of a ranch rifle.

Tokarev
12-30-10, 18:55
My apologizes, we had to keep a lid on it till we got the OK, got the e-mail last night and tried to put it together asap.

To be honest I didn't think I would like it much. A short barreled 308 + bolt action + laminated stock are not really my tastes in rifles. But after the classroom time with Ruger and Ed Head on the process and progress that went into designing the Gunsite Scout, their purpose based of Coopers intent, they had my interest. After some range time and then running the Scrambler I was sold. We all(well not all) look at an AR or AK(self-loading) as our headin-for-th-hills arm, I know I do or did but the simplicity and reliability of a bolt gun make much more sense. I know any firearm can malfunction and needs maintenance but a gas driven firearm is more complicated(internally) and needs more care, a bolt gun just needs less.

That said, we didn't have bench time to wring out accuracy. Nor was there a chrono, no time anyway.

As for the laminated stock, I admit I'm probably a poly freak, but a solid stock makes a much better weapon than hollow plastic.

With the adjustable length spacers and whatever that buttpad is made out of it sure didn't feel like you were shooting a snub-nose 308 bolt gun. I actually enjoyed shooting it and didn't want to stop burning up the ammo when they called it quits. Being a short barrel handy rifle it move through the Scrambler with ease, enjoyed it so much ran back and got in line to run it again.

Hope this is a little more info.

How was the action? Smooth and easy or grindy and draggy? Same goes for the trigger, safety, etc...

mark5pt56
12-30-10, 19:43
By the way, meant to correct you earlier--

Factory original 5rd steel magazine for all short-action AICS stocks and AE MkII rifles. Double-stack, single-position feed design can also be used with other .308 Win-based cartridges including .260 Remington and .243 Winchester. Corrosion-resistent low-friction finish ensures durability and reliable feeding in any environment

Arcana71
12-30-10, 20:17
OK... how's this:

- Howa 1500 Action, .308, Medium-Profile 18" Barrel
- Matte Black Duracoat Finish, Forward Picatinny Rail
- Shrouded-Blade Front & Ghost-Ring Rear Sights
- 10-Round, Double-Stack Mags, Spare in Buttstock
- Synthetic, Youth-Length Stock w/ Integral Bipod

If you only had room for one bolt gun in the safe....

deadduck357
12-30-10, 20:29
How was the action? Smooth and easy or grindy and draggy? Same goes for the trigger, safety, etc...

The action was slick. Really didn't get a good feeling for the trigger, everything we did was reactionary. But I didn't have a complaint with it, will be nice to get one and spend some time with it.

Safety is well, worked the way it was designed to. I'm not a big fan of the 3 position but I understand the advantage of the design.

The Ching Sling was another surprise, saw it and said "what the hell", but after Il Ling's instructions on its use I find it to be a very fast and useful sling.

Tokarev
12-30-10, 20:31
Safety is well, worked the way it was designed to. I'm not a big fan of the 3 position but I understand the advantage of the design.

Doesn't the M77 use a tang safety? I haven't shot one in years but I'm almost positive that gun had a tang safety.

The Dumb Gun Collector
12-30-10, 20:33
H.E.L.L. Y.E.S.

Nice work Ruger!:big_boss:

Thomas M-4
12-30-10, 21:09
Doesn't the M77 use a tang safety? I haven't shot one in years but I'm almost positive that gun had a tang safety.

Mauser style safety.

xrayoneone
12-30-10, 22:16
Doesn't the M77 use a tang safety? I haven't shot one in years but I'm almost positive that gun had a tang safety.

Supposedly some lawyers said the tang safety was a liability, that is what a Ruger rep told some of us about six years ago. I don't know if it's true but it sounds plausible.

I'm curious how well this will sell seeing how the Ruger Frontier was discontinued a couple years back and that was supposed to be based off Cooper's ideas. I always wanted one in 7mm-08 but it took a back burner to other guns. This one looks sweet especially in places like California where assault rifles are the devil and drug dealers are saints. It may just become a must have while I'm stationed here.

usmcvet
12-30-10, 23:20
I was always interested in the Scout Rifle concept. I see that Ruger is introducing a scout rifle:
http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/index.html

M77-GS
.308 Win.
5rd or 10rd mag (photo appears to show 20rd)
16.50" barrel
length 38.00" - 39.50"
Length of pull 12.75" - 14.25"
Wgt 7.00 lbs.
MSRP $995.00 (Still high in cost, but a lot better than Steyr)

Any one have experience with the M77 rifles to tell how their scout rifle might hold up?

I've had two Ruger M77 rifles an older tang safety International and a Compact Rifle , both in .308. They are rugged and good to go.

NotDylan
12-31-10, 01:17
This looks very nice, I'd love to snag one when the prices drop. Yikes the mags are pricey.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 01:32
This looks very nice, I'd love to snag one when the prices drop. Yikes the mags are pricey.

They are working on 5 and 10 round polymer mags which should be a lot cheaper.

usmcvet
12-31-10, 06:46
Doesn't the M77 use a tang safety? I haven't shot one in years but I'm almost positive that gun had a tang safety.


No the tang safety went away years ago. They use a three position safety now. All the was back the weapon is on safe and action is locked. In the middle it is on safe but the action can be manipulated. All the way forward is fire.

Rosco Benson
12-31-10, 06:51
Is one able to load the magazine through the action's port? Given that the magazine is a single feed position style, I'm guessing that one will have to remove the magazine and slip rounds in like loading a pistol mag. If so, this will make it impossible to do the "shoot one, load one" method of keeping the rifle topped off.

Rosco

usmcvet
12-31-10, 08:21
I think this thread just cost me $1500! I've wanted a Scout rifle for years. Growing up reading Cooper articles planted the seed long ago. The Steyer is a sweet gun but more money than I have been willing to spend. I liked the intergrated spare magazine in the stock the best. I imagine there will be some folks which will spring up offering mods to this gun. I would rather have an 18" bbl and ditch the goofy flash suppressor. I sold my last bolt gun a few years ago. There is a hole in my collection for one to add to the little .22's.

tracker722
12-31-10, 11:23
**************************

ryan
12-31-10, 11:38
That's a slick little carbine, Ruger may get some more of my money after all. Agree with the goofy flash suppressor, BABC for that one.

Tokarev
12-31-10, 11:40
That's a slick little carbine, Ruger may get some more of my money after all. Agree with the goofy flash suppressor, BABC for that one.

I like the AC556-style flash hider. Adds a distinctive Ruger look.

ryan
12-31-10, 12:25
I like the AC556-style flash hider. Adds a distinctive Ruger look.

Yeah from Bill's tenure, time to move on.

jwfuhrman
12-31-10, 13:04
O.K., down to brass tacks. If it's under $750, it'll be a huge winner. But I think they'll charge at least $100 more, and for that people will think hard about a semi-auto.


This will still sell for $850. IMO, it fills a void. IF, and its a big IF, a large social/economic collapse happens/EMP, Id rather look like just one of the random local hunters with a Bolt Gun to anyone who is "looking", than wander around with a Chest Rig, 10 30rd mags and a AR.

Being seen with a "Assault Weapon" draws to much attention in that kind of situation. This rifle wont. It just looks like the average hunting rifle.

carbinero
12-31-10, 13:16
This is a segment/niche gun which has to compete price-wise with the R700 AAC on one side and DPMS 308 on the other. I think having a full length rail like what XS is going to offer would have been better out of the box, as this would attract more guys who want a normal eye relief scope. Since it has the extra length of a muzzle device, maybe the 16.5" is a better starting point, but I still think 18 is better. As offered, it is a short range rifle. With full length rail and 18" barrel, it greatly extends into the target/hunting market. Rifle dollars for survivalists go more toward semiauto platforms. The majority of the rest is for target/hunting. So although I think it will sell, it would sell much better with those 2 changes. It has lots of great components (irons, AI mags, DIY stock pads), and I hope they sell like crazy. I'd consider buying a used one for $600.

jwfuhrman
12-31-10, 13:26
If you read the specs on the web site, and watch the little video they produced, REGULAR SCOPES CAN BE USED. Standard Scopes and Scope rings can be mount, there are notches in the receiver for them to be mounted, AND it comes with scope rings.

Not to mention its based on the Ruger M77 line of rifles, which are damn good guns. Mauser Actions are very good actions as well.

This rifle will sell, and sell just fine. Only down side is like someone said, AI mags are rather pricey.

fourXfour
12-31-10, 13:50
2011 is going to be a pricey year!!!! This is exactly what I've been looking for in a bolt gun.

rdc0000
12-31-10, 14:19
After some thought, if the trigger is not comparable to a M700 then I say what's the point. Detachable mags are nice, but a bad trigger and strange bedding system are a deal breaker for me. I'll wait for some range reports.:D

gsxr-fan
12-31-10, 14:38
Another review of Ruger's GunSite Scout Rifle from Gunblast.com:


http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-Gunsite.htm

Tokarev
12-31-10, 15:30
Yeah from Bill's tenure, time to move on.

Same can be said for the legendary "R" logo and guns like the #1 and the Super Blackhawk. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Still, a BABC would be pretty cool on there...:p

ryan
12-31-10, 15:35
Same can be said for the legendary "R" logo and guns like the #1 and the Super Blackhawk. We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Still, a BABC would be pretty cool on there...:p

I will admit to poor logic on my part with the stab at Bill, but its still a goofy looking flash hider. We also agree on the Super Blackhawk and #1.

ST911
12-31-10, 16:07
With the adjustable length spacers and whatever that buttpad is made out of it sure didn't feel like you were shooting a snub-nose 308 bolt gun. I actually enjoyed shooting it and didn't want to stop burning up the ammo when they called it quits. Being a short barrel handy rifle it move through the Scrambler with ease, enjoyed it so much ran back and got in line to run it again.

For the last few years, my primary go-to multi-purpose bolt gun as been a Ruger M77 youth/compact in .308 Win. With it's 16" barrel and short LOP it's light and fast handling. I had it threaded for a flash hider, screwed a rail section on the forearm, and mounted a fixed 4x scope. It's a joy to shoot, and very popular and ladies and youth events as well.

This new scout offering is very welcome. Folks will underestimate the utility of this configuration until they have it in their hands and on their shoulders.

While Ruger could have done this years ago, they didn't miss the boat or an optimal marketing window. In the hands of true shooters looking for flexibility, the scout concept is timeless.

Dos Cylindros
12-31-10, 16:08
This deffinately lightened my wallet for this year:D. I have long wanted and been a fan of the scout rifle concept. Not for a fighting gun, because I believe there are better choices, but for a "general purpose" hunting and knock around gun. I will deffinately be picking one of these up.

Terry
12-31-10, 16:32
I hoped they enlarged the safety wing.

okie john
12-31-10, 17:05
I tried the Scout concept pretty thoroughly back in the mid-90’s. I exchanged letters with Jeff Cooper and Finn Aagaard on it, and I wrote a college term paper on it. It was an interesting set of exercises, but like a lot of Cooper disciples, I went to a 22" rifle with a conventional 4x scope.

But that was a long time ago, and I should give it another try now. The variable Scout scope (which probably has Jeff Cooper whirling in his grave) and the perfected RDS, plus the updates Ruger has made with this version, address most of my original complaints.

I only have two issues with this one. First, the irons don’t co-witness with the optics so the stock geometry is a compromise by definition. Second, I’d like to see a barrel at least 20” long. But on the whole it looks like an excellent effort from Ruger. I’d also like to commend them for providing 20 rifles in various configurations for the Gunsite event, since now we can read reviews by people who have shot this rifle set up in different ways.

On a side note, Ruger has always built good iron sights. I'll bet that they sell a lot of these rear sights to guys who want to set up a Hawkeye or M77 the right way. They may even sell some of the bottom-metal/magazine combinations to them as well.


Okie John

Raven Armament
12-31-10, 17:38
Likes:

Box magazine
Short barrel
Ruger's solid action
Picatinny rail

Dislikes:

Iron sights could be better designed
Hate proprietary mags (Ruger didn't you learn with the Mini 14? Apparently not)
That gay flash suppressor

Tokarev
12-31-10, 17:54
Dislikes:

Hate proprietary mags (Ruger didn't you learn with the Mini 14? Apparently not)

What should Ruger have used instead? M-14 mags? They tried that and found that there were too many variables in the variety of USGI mags to make this a workable option. Armalite had similar issues retofitting M-14 mags to the AR-10.

At least they went with the AI mag. While this is expensive it is available from sources other than Ruger.

8200rpm
12-31-10, 18:08
AI mags are the industry standard for practical precision bolt guns. Badger Ordnance makes bottom metal designed to accept AI mags, and both McMillan and Manners inlets their stocks for BO bottom metal. So, I don't really understand the fetish with M14 mags. Ruger was smart for going with AI mags.

But, the flash suppressor seems like an item someone would buy from CheaperThanDirt. And, I personally dislike plywood stocks. Just plain ugly. For a short range gun, a decent piece of walnut would suffice.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 19:05
Is one able to load the magazine through the action's port? Given that the magazine is a single feed position style, I'm guessing that one will have to remove the magazine and slip rounds in like loading a pistol mag. If so, this will make it impossible to do the "shoot one, load one" method of keeping the rifle topped off.

Rosco

Your correct, single stack cannot top-off.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 19:11
That's a slick little carbine, Ruger may get some more of my money after all. Agree with the goofy flash suppressor, BABC for that one.

Replace it with another if you like or add a can.

Thomas M-4
12-31-10, 19:13
I don't like the detachable mag for a scout rifle it should have been adapted to use stripper clips. Nothing against AI mags just ruger is using it in the wrong application.

Todd.K
12-31-10, 19:17
Leupold makes a 1.4-4 power variable scout scope now rob_s if that makes a difference for you.
http://www.grizzlycustom.com/pagephotos/grizzly_custom_leupold_scout_scope_variable_1_640.jpg

The concept was basically sound 30 years ago but the features that came to define it have become irrelevant , that variable power scout scope is a perfect example of the pointless.

I like the factory AI DBM and threaded barrel. I'd like to see more bolt actions with those features but without the forward scout rail.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 19:20
This is a segment/niche gun which has to compete price-wise with the R700 AAC on one side and DPMS 308 on the other. I think having a full length rail like what XS is going to offer would have been better out of the box, as this would attract more guys who want a normal eye relief scope. Since it has the extra length of a muzzle device, maybe the 16.5" is a better starting point, but I still think 18 is better. As offered, it is a short range rifle. With full length rail and 18" barrel, it greatly extends into the target/hunting market. Rifle dollars for survivalists go more toward semiauto platforms. The majority of the rest is for target/hunting. So although I think it will sell, it would sell much better with those 2 changes. It has lots of great components (irons, AI mags, DIY stock pads), and I hope they sell like crazy. I'd consider buying a used one for $600.

An 18" would move the concept away from Cooper's ideal scout rifle.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 19:23
This rifle will sell, and sell just fine. Only down side is like someone said, AI mags are rather pricey.


Ruger is working on a 5 and 10 round polymer mag which should be much cheaper.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 19:25
After some thought, if the trigger is not comparable to a M700 then I say what's the point. Detachable mags are nice, but a bad trigger and strange bedding system are a deal breaker for me. I'll wait for some range reports.:D


I didn't have any complaints with the trigger. I should have my rifle next week for further T&E.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 19:44
But on the whole it looks like an excellent effort from Ruger. I’d also like to commend them for providing 20 rifles in various configurations for the Gunsite event, since now we can read reviews by people who have shot this rifle set up in different ways.

Okie John

Well I was given the Burris 2.75 Scout Scope set-up BUT we all were encouraged to trade out and get a feel of the other set-ups. I shot the Burris Scout, Trijicon RMR, and irons, the RMR gave me the quickest target acquisition, ran the Scrambler with it also. The Burris Scout and Leupold Scout was better for medium ranges. I didn't try any of the standard eye relief scope set-ups.

trooper430
12-31-10, 20:50
I own a Ruger Frontier Carbine in .308 and love it. I mounted a Leupold 2.5 power Scout scope on it. This looks like a great addition to their gun line.

NotDylan
12-31-10, 20:51
Well I was given the Burris 2.75 Scout Scope set-up BUT we all were encouraged to trade out and get a feel of the other set-ups. I shot the Burris Scout, Trijicon RMR, and irons, the RMR gave me the quickest target acquisition, ran the Scrambler with it also. The Burris Scout and Leupold Scout was better for medium ranges. I didn't try any of the standard eye relief scope set-ups.

How would you outfit the gun?

carbinero
12-31-10, 21:48
An 18" would move the concept away from Cooper's ideal scout rifle.

I don't think that's the case. Ideal scout had to do with OA length, so if you can't fit an 18" barrel in an OA 1 meter length, there's a problem with your receiver and stock. Steyr has a 19" tube and Savage, a 20". And for the purist, where did Cooper say it needs a flash hider?

Todd.K
12-31-10, 23:09
I don't think that's the case. Ideal scout had to do with OA length, so if you can't fit an 18" barrel in an OA 1 meter length, there's a problem with your receiver and stock. Steyr has a 19" tube and Savage, a 20". And for the purist, where did Cooper say it needs a flash hider?

Well you just nailed the biggest problem with the scout concept, people argue about the "correct" set up instead of making something that fits their needs.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 23:55
How would you outfit the gun?

Thats a tough one, so many options. Probably one of the Scout scopes on top with either a RMR, MRDS or FFII off-set to the right.

deadduck357
12-31-10, 23:58
I don't think that's the case. Ideal scout had to do with OA length, so if you can't fit an 18" barrel in an OA 1 meter length, there's a problem with your receiver and stock. Steyr has a 19" tube and Savage, a 20". And for the purist, where did Cooper say it needs a flash hider?

True, I think Gunsite was looking to make it as short and compact as legally possible.

carbinero
01-01-11, 01:02
I think either of these would make it happen:

http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=627#pid=730

http://www.surefire.com/FH762KM14-Flash-HiderAdapter

rob_s
01-01-11, 08:59
Well you just nailed the biggest problem with the scout concept, people argue about the "correct" set up instead of making something that fits their needs.

Exactly. People either get wrapped up in the "correct" Scout and make something that doesn't meet their own needs, or go a completely other route and get something that works for them only to be lambasted for not being true to the Scout concept.

I think Randy Cain's Practical Rifle concept is about the best evolution of the Scout concept that I've seen. People forget that Cooper was limited by the technology of his time, especially in terms of optics, and was undoubtedly a victim of his own frame of reference (big game, especially) that really doesn't apply to most of us.

As to the "who needs a bolt gun in 2011" posts, they're really red herrings. If you don't "need a bolt gun" then why even comment on a new player in that market at all? Some folks posit that the bolt gun is likely what we'll wind up fighting for our freedoms for because they will be the last firearms we're allowed to own and that proficiency with same might be a good thing to attain before you need it, instead of after.

ryan
01-01-11, 09:44
Exactly. People either get wrapped up in the "correct" Scout and make something that doesn't meet their own needs, or go a completely other route and get something that works for them only to be lambasted for not being true to the Scout concept.

I think Randy Cain's Practical Rifle concept is about the best evolution of the Scout concept that I've seen. People forget that Cooper was limited by the technology of his time, especially in terms of optics, and was undoubtedly a victim of his own frame of reference (big game, especially) that really doesn't apply to most of us.

As to the "who needs a bolt gun in 2011" posts, they're really red herrings. If you don't "need a bolt gun" then why even comment on a new player in that market at all? Some folks posit that the bolt gun is likely what we'll wind up fighting for our freedoms for because they will be the last firearms we're allowed to own and that proficiency with same might be a good thing to attain before you need it, instead of after.

The only disagreement I have with this is that we should start fighting for our freedoms before they take what we have.

kos1966
01-01-11, 10:29
This would be great in 6.8 ruger has everything to do it the round is perfect for all purpose and the 16 inch barrel. I would order one the day it came out.:big_boss::big_boss::big_boss::big_boss::big_boss:

Todd.K
01-01-11, 11:57
People forget that Cooper was limited by the technology of his time, especially in terms of optics...

DBM was not available back then so the scout scope was a way to clear the top of the receiver for loading with stripper clips. Low power variables have improved immensely, the scout scope can't even come close to something like the TR24.

okie john
01-01-11, 14:46
Dislikes:
That gay flash suppressor

A good flash hider is nice to have on a short 308, especially if you use night-vision devices. I also like that the muzzle is threaded for a can. In this case, the flash hider replaces the thread protector, so it's not a total waste of steel.


Okie John

Jake'sDad
01-01-11, 15:03
An 18" would move the concept away from Cooper's ideal scout rifle.

From the beginning, all of Cooper's Scout rifles had 18" or longer barrels.

Jake'sDad
01-01-11, 15:12
DBM was not available back then so the scout scope was a way to clear the top of the receiver for loading with stripper clips. Low power variables have improved immensely, the scout scope can't even come close to something like the TR24.


Cooper wanted DBM for the Scout, but like you said, they weren't around to begin with, but he insisted on them for the Steyr. As far as the scope, he liked the intermediate eye relief scope for snap shooting with both eyes open. I agree if something like the TR24 had been around, he might have gone that route. I have, and have had, several Scouts of various flavors for more than 20 years, and the TR24 1-4 makes the Scout scope obsolete for me.

pappy86
01-01-11, 17:44
I like the concept it looks to be very handy, I dont have a problem with the barrel length it is long enough to shoot very well. Some things that have been mentioned here about optics I agree with, I prefer a conventional mounted scope also and with the choices we have now that is what I would do. If the rear sight is the same as a 580 series mini-14 they are not very good, or are they robust. The caliber choice is a good one. The choice of magazines is also good. I wish the iron sights could be cowitnessed with a optic but it looks like they cant. My only problem with the rifle is that Ruger has a history of making some rifles that dont shoot very well. I dont want them giving the short barreled thing a bad name. My savage, and remington, and friends remingtons with 14.5 to 20 inch barrels shoot great I hope this does also. I dont want Ruger using the short barrel as a excuse for so so accuracy. I have 2 rilfles that are shorter then this that shoot sub moa out past 600yds, they were also cheaper. I didnt mean to rant but I like this style of rifle and I hope Ruger got it right.

deadduck357
01-01-11, 21:11
From the beginning, all of Cooper's Scout rifles had 18" or longer barrels.

Again, true.

tpd223
01-01-11, 21:15
This seriously needs to be made in stainless. I'd buy two of them if they were.

MountainRaven
01-02-11, 01:03
Apparently, the scout rail is removable. I wonder if someone like XS might work up a replacement that puts a decent traditional rifle sight at the rear. Maybe even with range graduations ala bolt-action battle rifles.

Although... then we'd basically have a laminated half-stocked, heavier-barreled version of the RSI that takes DBMs, wouldn't we?

PJ2RESQU2
01-02-11, 01:06
Any plans for Ruger to offer this with a left-handed bolt? Thanks!

deadduck357
01-02-11, 02:39
Apparently, the scout rail is removable. I wonder if someone like XS might work up a replacement that puts a decent traditional rifle sight at the rear. Maybe even with range graduations ala bolt-action battle rifles.

Although... then we'd basically have a laminated half-stocked, heavier-barreled version of the RSI that takes DBMs, wouldn't we?

XS had prototypes there, a couple of rifles were fitted with the extended rails.

deadduck357
01-02-11, 02:40
Any plans for Ruger to offer this with a left-handed bolt? Thanks!

Yes, they are working on it.

mark5pt56
01-02-11, 08:20
I cleaned up some post that are going off in left field, especially the sling use.

Keep it that way

PJ2RESQU2
01-02-11, 10:06
Thanks Dead Duck!

cqbdriver
01-02-11, 10:28
Any one have any info on when these will start showing up in stores? Does Ruger have them ready to go now or was this just an early Shot Show announcement with the usual 6-18 month wait for it to show up in the stores?

I have been on a search for a utility/truck/ranch rifle for years to use when traveling to my hunting land that is in a different state (for use on coyotes, wild dogs, black bear & rednecks). I have been looking for an effective rifle that won't gather as much attention as an EBR. I think that this rifle may fill that need.

ryan
01-02-11, 10:31
Any one have any info on when these will start showing up in stores? Does Ruger have them ready to go now or was this just an early Shot Show announcement with the usual 6-18 month wait for it to show up in the stores?

I have been on a search for a utility/truck/ranch rifle for years to use when traveling to my hunting land that is in a different state (for use on coyotes, wild dogs, black bear & rednecks). I have been looking for an effective rifle that won't gather as much attention as an EBR. I think that this rifle may fill that need.

Be dang careful shooting at us rednecks, we shoot back.

Tokarev
01-02-11, 10:33
Any one have any info on when these will start showing up in stores? Does Ruger have them ready to go now or was this just an early Shot Show announcement with the usual 6-18 month wait for it to show up in the stores?

I have been on a search for a utility/truck/ranch rifle for years to use when traveling to my hunting land that is in a different state (for use on coyotes, wild dogs, black bear & rednecks). I have been looking for an effective rifle that won't gather as much attention as an EBR. I think that this rifle may fill that need.


Ruger says they've learned from past mistakes and now only announces new models when they're ready to start shipping to stores. I'd expect the Scouts to start showing up within the next few weeks.

usmcvet
01-02-11, 12:17
Ruger says they've learned from past mistakes and now only announces new models when they're ready to start shipping to stores. I'd expect the Scouts to start showing up within the next few weeks.

That is refreshing. Waiting and waiting is counter productive .

Jake'sDad
01-02-11, 12:20
Any one have any info on when these will start showing up in stores? Does Ruger have them ready to go now or was this just an early Shot Show announcement with the usual 6-18 month wait for it to show up in the stores?

I'll bet the first ones show up within the next 2-3 weeks.

usmcvet
01-02-11, 12:27
I'll bet the first ones show up within the next 2-3 weeks.

That would be awesome. My local Gun shop stocks lots of Rivers. Reading about new stuff is okay but getting your hands on it is obviously better.

Jake'sDad
01-02-11, 12:30
That is refreshing. Waiting and waiting is counter productive .

In fairness to the gun companies, every manufacturer of a product wants immediate customers for their products. Look at articles in car magazines, etc. They announce new products long before they're ready to ship.

Gun shop owners are notorious for being reluctant to stock new products until they're positive they'll sell. Hopefully the blitz of press releases and articles will get enough people asking for this rifle that the gunshops will actually order them.

usmcvet
01-02-11, 12:35
In fairness to the gun companies, every manufacturer of a product wants immediate customers for their products. Look at articles in car magazines, etc. They announce new products long before they're ready to ship.

Gun shop owners are notorious for being reluctant to stock new products until they're positive they'll sell. Hopefully the blitz of press releases and articles will get enough people asking for this rifle that the gunshops will actually order them.

I know it is just the little kid in me. I still want a few 49 round PMags . The fact that Ruger had twenty in the racks for the dog and pony show/demonstration is an excellent sign.

ST911
01-02-11, 14:04
Exactly. People either get wrapped up in the "correct" Scout and make something that doesn't meet their own needs, or go a completely other route and get something that works for them only to be lambasted for not being true to the Scout concept...I think Randy Cain's Practical Rifle concept is about the best evolution of the Scout concept that I've seen.

Perhaps part of the problem lies in the continuing use of the label "scout." Words matter, and for some the "scout" label conjures up specific imagery. Perhaps we should endeavor to use the term "practical bolt rifle", "urban bolt rifle", "fighting bolt rifle", "GP bolt rifle", or even <blech> "tactical bolt rifle."


People forget that Cooper was limited by the technology of his time, especially in terms of optics, and was undoubtedly a victim of his own frame of reference (big game, especially) that really doesn't apply to most of us.

Exactly. As time marches on, one must increasingly apply the caveat "for/in his time" when discussing his contributions to the craft and the industry. A good man and a friend of the cause, but time and science march on.


As to the "who needs a bolt gun in 2011" posts, they're really red herrings. If you don't "need a bolt gun" then why even comment on a new player in that market at all? Some folks posit that the bolt gun is likely what we'll wind up fighting for our freedoms for because they will be the last firearms we're allowed to own and that proficiency with same might be a good thing to attain before you need it, instead of after.

Not to mention that a practical bolt gun (or lever) will be legal in many more venues, an issue for those who travel.


A good flash hider is nice to have on a short 308, especially if you use night-vision devices. I also like that the muzzle is threaded for a can. In this case, the flash hider replaces the thread protector, so it's not a total waste of steel. Okie John

I ran my 16" without a flash hider for a short time. A very short time.

usmcvet
01-02-11, 14:14
Bolt guns in serious calibers are still good fighting guns. I know I grew up watching Red Dawn and yes it is just a movie but Patrick Swazey got it all started with a Colt Peacemaker and a bolt action scoped hunting rifle. Both OLD technology but still effective. The detachable magazine and stock spacers are the big selling point to me. An AAC or Vortex FH would be the only thing I would change.

Jake'sDad
01-02-11, 14:21
Exactly. As time marches on, one must increasingly apply the caveat "for/in his time" when discussing his contributions to the craft and the industry. A good man and a friend of the cause, but time and science march on.

Yes, the internet experts that seem to relish pointing out Cooper's flaws or biases, often seem to forget his contributions, back when cops and the military were still being taught to shoot handguns one handed. He wasn't perfect, but he certainly contributed as much, or more than anyone else did to firearms training in the last century.

Muddyboots
01-02-11, 15:28
The new Ruger is very similar to a lot of rifles that I've seen built up. I've built a few myself. The absolute best thing about this new Ruger is that it is really close to what a lot of people seem to want and it's OFF THE RACK! I think that the poly mags will be the way to go for Ruger. The BABC is great on these 16" .308s I'd swap it if I had the Ruger. As a truck gun, it shows a whole lot of promise. I hope that a bunch of people in my area buy them and don't really like it, so I can pick up a couple of used ones.

Muddyboots

mark5pt56
01-02-11, 15:33
Ok, enough about all of the side comments, etc, etc.

To whom it may concern--you have been warned.

:big_boss:

cqbdriver
01-02-11, 15:43
Be dang careful shooting at us rednecks, we shoot back.

That is what makes it more fun! :D

If the rifle shows up in the next month, I'll have a great birthday gift for myself.

I've read about their reasons for not using a double stacked mag, but I would still prefer a lower profile 10 rd mag.

The rear sight looks similar to the newer model Mini-14's. The sight is useable. Only issue, it came loose the 1st time firing the Mini-14. A little loctite solved that problem.

I would like a stainless version. I plan to use it to throw in my truck, strap it to my ATV or crawl though the briars in a creek bottom in rain, sleet & snow.

usmcvet
01-02-11, 17:16
I would have liked a lower profile option too but this is really turn key. I thought about the Battle Comp I love it on my SBR but I looked at this more of stealth gun and the AAC or Vortex will rule for flash hiding.

okie john
01-02-11, 17:55
The concept was basically sound 30 years ago but the features that came to define it have become irrelevant , that variable power scout scope is a perfect example of the pointless.


People either get wrapped up in the "correct" Scout and make something that doesn't meet their own needs, or go a completely other route and get something that works for them only to be lambasted for not being true to the Scout concept.


People forget that Cooper was limited by the technology of his time, especially in terms of optics, and was undoubtedly a victim of his own frame of reference (big game, especially) that really doesn't apply to most of us.

Right—there’s a lot more to the Scout concept than mere doctrinal correctness.

When Cooper started writing about the Scout in the 70s, the Viet Nam War was ending, the US military (and a lot of police departments) had given up on trying to train gunfighters, and there were two schools of thought on fighting rifles. One believed in the infantry tactics of the Blitzkrieg, and favored hand-held full-auto fire from iron-sighted rifles like the M-16/G-3/AK-47. The other wanted the precise long-range fire required by the formal competitions that grew out of World War I; it favored rifles like the H&K PSG-1/Walther 2000. Arms makers just weren’t looking at much between the two.

But Cooper used Gunsite to identify and study the rifleman’s problems, then he designed a rifle to solve them. He was remarkably flexible on the requirements of the rifle itself. In a July, 1998 article in G&A, (The Scout Rifle: Some Simple Principles) he wrote that a Scout had to be light and short, and had to have a good trigger, peep sights, and a three-point sling. It didn’t have to be a 308 (as long as it wasn’t a 5.56), and it didn’t have to have a scope at all. He was even open to a semi-auto Scout, but no semis were light enough at the time.

He also paid attention to sights. He liked the Scout scope, but he really wanted a low-powered sight with a triangular, translucent amber reticle that shooters could use with both eyes open, which sounds a lot like a RDS or shot-dot optic when you think about it.

IPSC let handgunners study their problems in competition and forced them to find the best gear and techniques to solve them. An equivalent never arose for riflemen (the Keneyathlon died aborning) but the Scout helped. It took nearly 20 years, but all of the writing and thinking and complaining about the Scout rifle finally got everyone’s attention back to the problem of training riflemen to shoot well in combat.

The Scout rifle as Cooper described it is dated now, but the concept still forces us to focus on the problem itself, and that has changed how 21st-century riflemen fight. If you chalk-talk the gunfights you hear about on the evening news, then go to the range and recreate them to study them, and if you’re constantly seeking new ways to fight with a rifle, then you owe a debt to the Scout concept.

This Ruger is going to be an interesting piece of kit. That said, I’d bet that if Cooper were alive today, he’d be using an M-4 in 6.8 SPC with a short-dot scope instead of a Steyr Scout.


Okie John

mark5pt56
01-02-11, 17:56
That is what makes it more fun! :D

If the rifle shows up in the next month, I'll have a great birthday gift for myself.

I've read about their reasons for not using a double stacked mag, but I would still prefer a lower profile 10 rd mag. The rear sight looks similar to the newer model Mini-14's. The sight is useable. Only issue, it came loose the 1st time firing the Mini-14. A little loctite solved that problem.

I would like a stainless version. I plan to use it to throw in my truck, strap it to my ATV or crawl though the briars in a creek bottom in rain, sleet & snow.


Please, please so you all are properly informed. The AICS magazine used here is a double stacked, single position feed magazine----the five round is the same thing other than--it holds five instead of ten rounds

a qoute from their site

Factory original 10rd steel magazine for all short-action AICS stocks and AE MkII rifles. Double-stack, single-position feed design can also be used with other .308 Win-based cartridges including .260 Remington and .243 Winchester. Corrosion-resistent low-friction finish ensures durability and reliable feeding in any environment

usmcvet
01-02-11, 18:03
What does single feed mean? One at a time? The ten rounder looks like a 20 round M14 mag in the photos.

Thomas M-4
01-02-11, 18:10
What does single feed mean? One at a time? The ten rounder looks like a 20 round M14 mag in the photos.

Its like a high capacity pistol mag.
It may be double stack in the column but it only feed from the center:sarcastic:

mark5pt56
01-02-11, 18:12
It's shorter in height than a M14 mag. Don't have the measurement at the moment.


As the body tapers to the top section, it goes into a single feed(centered). It's double stacked in the main body portion.

A double stack magazine like the M14, M16, etc is staggered througout the entire body and to the feedlips which allows for staggered feeding. Really necessary on the AR family with the barrel extension/ramps.

Not to add confusion, there are some Accuracy International magazines that are single column, the older AE and older/current design long action/magnum calibers.

usmcvet
01-02-11, 18:16
Thanks guys. That makes sense. Similar to Glock mags.

cqbdriver
01-02-11, 18:57
Photo of AICS magazines next to 20rd M14 mag for size comparison (half way down the page):

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=34704


If you don't want to scan through all the photos in the link, the 10 rd AICS mag looks to be about 3/4 the length of a 20 rd M14 mag.

usmcvet
01-02-11, 19:16
Photo of AICS magazines next to 20rd M14 mag for size comparison (half way down the page):

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=34704


If you don't want to scan through all the photos in the link, the 10 rd AICS mag looks to be about 3/4 the length of a 20 rd M14 mag.

Good photo thanks. The 5 rounders don't look so long now.

deadduck357
01-02-11, 21:03
Tokarev pm sent.

deadduck357
01-02-11, 21:35
I cleaned up some post that are going off in left field, especially the sling use.

Keep it that way

Thank you

deadduck357
01-02-11, 21:38
Any one have any info on when these will start showing up in stores? Does Ruger have them ready to go now or was this just an early Shot Show announcement with the usual 6-18 month wait for it to show up in the stores?

I have been on a search for a utility/truck/ranch rifle for years to use when traveling to my hunting land that is in a different state (for use on coyotes, wild dogs, black bear & rednecks). I have been looking for an effective rifle that won't gather as much attention as an EBR. I think that this rifle may fill that need.

They said they have a good stock of them ready to go.

The Dumb Gun Collector
01-02-11, 23:11
The Colonel hasn't been dead that long. Before he left us he still seemed pretty satisfied with his scout. He didn't care for variables and he didn't think RDS were trustworthy enough (yet). He might have changed his mind on the latter by now, but I doubt it.

The only place where I think his concept could improve is the choice of optic. I think something like the TR-24 would be nice. But both it and the short dot are quite a bit heavier than the Leupold. Honestly, I think a Leupold Scout Scope with a Trijicon style illuminated reticle would be ideal for the Scout.

As far as alternative calibers I seriously doubt it. He picked the .308 because it was not only a great all around cartridge (which it certainly is) but because it is universally available. Boutique rounds were not going to make it into the Scout.

I think his concept is still viable, and probably will be for a long time. He was well-aware of the various autoloaders, variable optics and RDS, but just didn't think they were necessary (or necessarily advantages) for an individual. His intended audience wasn't soldiers, but the free citizen.

mark5pt56
01-03-11, 05:01
I deleted some post and gave infractions---I said leave the sling out of it as you guys were argueing, etc even after I made my post.



If you want to discuss the sling, start a thread in the gear section.

rob_s
01-03-11, 06:02
The Colonel hasn't been dead that long. Before he left us he still seemed pretty satisfied with his scout. He didn't care for variables and he didn't think RDS were trustworthy enough (yet). He might have changed his mind on the latter by now, but I doubt it.

The only place where I think his concept could improve is the choice of optic. I think something like the TR-24 would be nice. But both it and the short dot are quite a bit heavier than the Leupold. Honestly, I think a Leupold Scout Scope with a Trijicon style illuminated reticle would be ideal for the Scout.

As far as alternative calibers I seriously doubt it. He picked the .308 because it was not only a great all around cartridge (which it certainly is) but because it is universally available. Boutique rounds were not going to make it into the Scout.

I think his concept is still viable, and probably will be for a long time. He was well-aware of the various autoloaders, variable optics and RDS, but just didn't think they were necessary (or necessarily advantages) for an individual. His intended audience wasn't soldiers, but the free citizen.

Alive and relevant may be two different things, not to take anything away from the man.

IMHO if you read through the deleted link you can see that Cooper left the concept loosely-defined on purpose. Had he sat down and written "the book of the Scout Rifle" it would have been viewed as being written in stone for all time (which some take it as anyway). By leaving it loosely defined and addressing it in fits and starts here and there he left things open for interpretation, discussion, and evolution. People have a tendency to focus on the details of his writing on the subject rather than the larger concept as a whole.

Hence a lot of the discussion in this thread. Yes, words matter, and if you're going to call something a "Scout" maybe it needs to strictly match the definition (if anyone can really nail it all down), but the Steyr was made with Cooper's blessing and input and the market still screamed that it didn't meet the definition of the word. I am reminded of my '05 GTO which all the old-timers said wasn't a GTO in their eyes, but if you defined the original more broadly as a high-performance engine in a boring package it fit the definition exactly. I think the Scout discussions would do well to look at the broader conceptual definition than the minutiae of exactly which this or that should be used.

mark5pt56
01-03-11, 06:26
I will leave this thread open for post about the rifle itself.

I will allow the discussion about the Scout Rifle concept provided it doesn't contain the sling issue as certain people already demonstrated the inability to be civil.

If the discussion turns into hurt feelings, chest thumping, etc over your beliefs or someone else's "concept", then those post will be deleted, potential bad feedback for you and or the thread being locked or deleted.

If you guys want to discuss the sling, the gear section may be the better option. Civil discussion is still a requirement, regardless.

I've been more than forgiving with the post here, so don't ruin it for those wanting to learn about the Ruger rifle.

Thank you

Mark

The Dumb Gun Collector
01-03-11, 09:58
I think this new Ruger Scout with a tr-24 and a supressor would be pretty fantastic.

Does anyone have a pic of it with a 5 round mag? I never lIked the 10 round kit for my SS.

Jake'sDad
01-03-11, 10:03
I think this new Ruger Scout with a tr-24 and a supressor would be pretty fantastic.

Does anyone have a pic of it with a 5 round mag? I never lIked the 10 round kit for my SS.

Deadduck357 posted one in #3.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8610/26928054.jpg

okie john
01-03-11, 14:34
I think this new Ruger Scout with a tr-24 and a supressor would

...change deer season around here forever.


Okie John

Suwannee Tim
01-03-11, 16:59
...change deer season around here forever.


Okie John

Lemme know if you get caught. I'll bake you a cake with a hacksaw blade in it.:D

J-Dub
01-03-11, 17:30
Like the idea and its nice to see ruger try...BUT...couldnt you get the same thing with a marlin lever action? Sure you wouldnt have a detach mag, but you'd gain a quicker action...

Also, how about one in 6.8?

Jake'sDad
01-03-11, 19:29
Like the idea and its nice to see ruger try...BUT...couldnt you get the same thing with a marlin lever action? Sure you wouldnt have a detach mag, but you'd gain a quicker action...

In what caliber? .308 Marlin Express though interesting, doesn't have the range of ammo available, and it's only loaded by two companies.


Also, how about one in 6.8?

If this one sells well, I'll bet we see other calibers made.

I'd like to see them do a 5.56 using Mini 14 mags, and keep the weight under 6 lbs.

usmcvet
01-03-11, 19:37
I think this new Ruger Scout with a tr-24 and a supressor would be pretty fantastic.

Does anyone have a pic of it with a 5 round mag? I never lIked the 10 round kit for my SS.

Gregg

There is a link someone posted yesterday with a photo of the 5 round 10 round and a 20 round M14 mag. I agree the 5 round would be handier and I would use it for hunting too.

I was thinking of selling my T424G might have to keep it now.

usmcvet
01-03-11, 20:07
I swear, Ruger could screw up a soup sandwich. The barrel is too short, the rifle is too heavy, the flash hider is a joke and the rifle should have an integral box magazine with hinged floorplate, not a detachable box magazine.

Sounds like a regular M77 your looking for. I don't blame them for using their FH I would replace it but it gives you options w/o gunsmithing. Just change it out for another FH. I like the 5 roound box mag I'd rather have two tens than a ten but that is the beauty of it. We can get what works for us.

Jake'sDad
01-03-11, 20:13
I swear, Ruger could screw up a soup sandwich. The barrel is too short, the rifle is too heavy, the flash hider is a joke and the rifle should have an integral box magazine with hinged floorplate, not a detachable box magazine.

16" .308's are popular, the threading is common, and people pay hundreds of dollars to convert their bolt rifles to DBM.

I wish they made it at 6lbs, but if they did, I guarantee there'd be lots of screaming about it being "too light".

As long as the bottom portion can be fitted to another stock, and if I buy one, mine's getting a plastic stock ASAP. Should get me to 6lbs.

subzero
01-03-11, 20:16
I swear, Ruger could screw up a soup sandwich. The barrel is too short, the rifle is too heavy, the flash hider is a joke and the rifle should have an integral box magazine with hinged floorplate, not a detachable box magazine.

A soup sandwich...*is* all screwed up.

And I'd much rather have a detachable box than an internal magazine. But that's just me.

I'm all for this rifle not because I want this particular rifle, but because I love the Scout concept, if not particularly the execution. Hopefully this will get some other companies thinking about ways to improve the idea. Steyr made one but I don't think it's around anymore. Savage makes one but it's rarer than hen's teeth and has a couple of fleas...now Ruger. Good.

Suwannee Tim
01-03-11, 20:19
I have an M77 in '06, I may just see if I can't have a Picatinny fitted to the barrel, the 22 inch tube shortened to 18, a front sight fitted and put Ruger's little detachable rear sight on it along with a 2-1/2 power Luepold forward mounted. All just to prove how easy it would be to make a Scout Rifle true to Jeff Cooper's ideal and that looks good. Correction, looks beautiful. A rifle with elan. A rifle that elicits joi de virve.


A soup sandwich...*is* all screwed up......

My point exactly. Ruger could find a way to screw up a soup sandwich.


....And I'd much rather have a detachable box than an internal magazine...

If you can't stuff cartridges into the magazine through the open action then a detachable magazine makes the rifle less useful not more. The beauty of a bolt action rifle is simplicity of design and ruggedness. I have a DBM rifle less magazine, a K31. Without it's detachable magazine it is a useless hunk of junk. You loose or damage your magazine or the latch and your rifle is worse than a single shot. It is a single shot with a big hole for cartridges to fall through when you are trying to load.

The bolt action rifle was perfected by Paul Mauser, the 98 Mauser with it's claw extractor and integral box magazine. Every subsequent bolt action rifle worth a damn is a copy of the 98 Mauser. To the extent it deviates from Mauser it is less valuable.

For a range toy, hang all sorts of gee-gaws on it. Why not? Every body else does. Ruger's design comittee has re-designed the wheel and it goes bump, bump, bump down the road.

Jake'sDad
01-03-11, 20:42
This ain't rocket science. The bolt action rifle was perfected by Paul Mauser, the 98 Mauser with it's claw extractor and integral box magazine. Every subsequent bolt action rifle worth a damn is a copy of the 98 Mauser. To the extent it deviates from Mauser it is less valuable.

Apparently, the majority of military and LE snipers that use bolt guns, find "less valuable".....valuable.....

J-Dub
01-03-11, 20:45
In what caliber? .308 Marlin Express though interesting, doesn't have the range of ammo available, and it's only loaded by two companies.

30-30? 35rem? 45-70?

While none are the "sexy" choice and dont have the range of a .308, are you really going to be shooting long range with a scout config. rifle? Is that its purpose?

Out of the cartridges i've mentioned above, i'd take the 30wcf. Good power, low recoil, and can be found EVERYWHERE...cheap.

Or if you have to have it in .308, how about a BLR? You get a Lever action, detach mag. AND you can get one in a take down model.....hmmm

Sam
01-03-11, 20:59
Has anyone seen the Ruger M77 Compact rifle?

http://ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeCompact/models.html

You can get it in a variety of popular calibers from .223 to .308, with a 16.5" barrel, lightweight and you can mount a scope in the conventional location. I'm thinking a variable 1x4 scope like the Millett DMS II or similar would make a handy combination for around the farm gun to dispatch hogs and coyotes.

Suwannee Tim
01-03-11, 21:02
Apparently, the majority of military and LE snipers that use bolt guns, find "less valuable".....valuable.....

The vast, vast majority of military and LE snipers over the years have been equipped with bolt action rifles with fixed box magazines. It ain't like the DBM was invented in the 21st century and unknown to arms makers before then. This method of feeding a rifle has been well known since at least the BAR. Well known and dismissed. I did not originate the form of the perfect bolt action rifle, I merely concur with it. The DBM on a bolt action rifle is a fad. The fact that it is popular strengthens the argument that it is a fad. The necessity of removing the magazine from the rifle to load it is a major disadvantage. This is a very useful feature in rifles designed to put a hail of bullets on target, rifles like the AR. This is not a useful feature on a bolt action rifle. It unnecessarily complicates the rifle and the manual of arms.

JStor
01-03-11, 21:29
I'm not a fan of the Ruger investment cast action. It certainly works, as thousands of rifles have been sold with it, but that's what lots of shooters say about their DPMS and Olys, too. I will stick with my Winchester Model 70s with the far more rigid action.

The Scout scope may work very well in daylight, but I understand that in low light the small objective scout scopes pretty much crap out. Sometimes you need a rifle in low light conditions, so that has been one reason I have stayed away from scout rifle configurations. For myself it's much more practical to use the normal receiver optic mounting methods using Talley steel rings or on heavy barrelled rifles, Badger Ordnance mounts.

However, I'm always willing to learn something new...what exactly does the scout offer that would be considered an advantage over say a regular "practical" rifle?

Suwannee Tim
01-03-11, 21:35
......I will stick with my Winchester Model 70s with the far more rigid action......

How do you figure a Model 70 is stiffer than a Ruger bolt action?

Jake'sDad
01-03-11, 22:02
The vast, vast majority of military and LE snipers over the years have been equipped with bolt action rifles with fixed box magazines. It ain't like the DBM was invented in the 21st century and unknown to arms makers before then. This method of feeding a rifle has been well known since at least the BAR. Well known and dismissed. I did not originate the form of the perfect bolt action rifle, I merely concur with it. The DBM on a bolt action rifle is a fad. The fact that it is popular strengthens the argument that it is a fad. The necessity of removing the magazine from the rifle to load it is a major disadvantage. This is a very useful feature in rifles designed to put a hail of bullets on target, rifles like the AR. This is not a useful feature on a bolt action rifle. It unnecessarily complicates the rifle and the manual of arms.

For a number of years, popular bolt action sniping rifles have been designed with, (Steyr SSG, Savage, etc) or been converted to DBM (ala the M24). It is not a "fad".

As to your other argument about the Mauser claw extractor, how many of the bolt action sniping systems have incorporated that in the last 30 years?

Jake'sDad
01-03-11, 22:25
30-30? 35rem? 45-70?

I own rifles in all three cartridges, (6 or 7 .30-30's and 5 45-70's), all great cartridges, but they aren't as versatile as my .308's. If I lived in the outback of Alaska or Canada I might think differently.


While none are the "sexy" choice and dont have the range of a .308, are you really going to be shooting long range with a scout config. rifle? Is that its purpose?

That's up to the buyer. Cooper's concept was a rifle that could hit a human at 500 yards or "wreck a truck". .308 is capable of doing both. I'm a pretty mediocre shot these days, but even I can makes hits pretty far out there with a .308. My .30-30's, not so much....



Out of the cartridges i've mentioned above, i'd take the 30wcf. Good power, low recoil, and can be found EVERYWHERE...cheap.

Not as cheap as .308 ammo, lousy BC, and it lacks the range of bullet choices in .308.


Or if you have to have it in .308, how about a BLR? You get a Lever action, detach mag. AND you can get one in a take down model.....hmmm

I've had several BLR's. Trust me on this, the BLR will break before the M77 gets broken in.

Jake'sDad
01-03-11, 22:33
I'm not a fan of the Ruger investment cast action. It certainly works, as thousands of rifles have been sold with it, but that's what lots of shooters say about their DPMS and Olys, too. I will stick with my Winchester Model 70s with the far more rigid action.

The Scout scope may work very well in daylight, but I understand that in low light the small objective scout scopes pretty much crap out. Sometimes you need a rifle in low light conditions, so that has been one reason I have stayed away from scout rifle configurations. For myself it's much more practical to use the normal receiver optic mounting methods using Talley steel rings or on heavy barrelled rifles, Badger Ordnance mounts.

However, I'm always willing to learn something new...what exactly does the scout offer that would be considered an advantage over say a regular "practical" rifle?

Using the forward mount on the Scout for the first time, was quite amazing for me 25 years ago. Being able to easily shoot a moving target through an optic was pretty revolutionary.

Today, with RDS's, TR24's, etc., it's lost most of it's shine.

deadduck357
01-03-11, 22:49
The Scout scope may work very well in daylight, but I understand that in low light the small objective scout scopes pretty much crap out. Sometimes you need a rifle in low light conditions, so that has been one reason I have stayed away from scout rifle configurations.



I have used the Burris Scout scope in a scout rifle set-up in low-light frequently and find it useful, it still magnifies light, not as bright as a larger optic but nevertheless brighter than surrounding light.

MountainRaven
01-04-11, 02:15
The vast, vast majority of military and LE snipers over the years have been equipped with bolt action rifles with fixed box magazines.

You ignored the other part of the argument:

The action.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Mauser control-round feed action with its giant fixed claw.

But there are, at present, only four reputable mass production manufacturers that utilize Paul Mauser's "perfect" action: Ruger, Kimber, CZ, and Winchester. Three of them do it out of nostalgia and the fourth does it because it's the only thing they know how to do. (All four also manufacture 'dangerous game' rifles, for which a control-round feed action is essential.)

Most production rifles use other actions: Remington, Savage, Sako, Browning, Marlin, Thompson Center, Smith & Wesson, Weatherby, &c. And for every custom production and semi-custom manufacturer that build their own control-round actions, there are at least three who do a push-feed.

And the detachable box magazine not-Mauser bolt action did quite well against the Boers, the Germans in two world wars, and the Japanese in the hands of the soldiers of the British Commonwealth. These rifles served with distinction in a variety of roles, from battle rifle to sniper rifle, from the 1890s to the 1980s. When it was replaced with another rifle fed by a detachable box magazine and utilizing a not-Mauser-style action. A rifle fed by the very same magazine that this new Ruger uses.

usmcvet
01-04-11, 09:03
Has anyone seen the Ruger M77 Compact rifle?

http://ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeCompact/models.html

You can get it in a variety of popular calibers from .223 to .308, with a 16.5" barrel, lightweight and you can mount a scope in the conventional location. I'm thinking a variable 1x4 scope like the Millett DMS II or similar would make a handy combination for around the farm gun to dispatch hogs and coyotes.


I had one, it is a handy little gun. I had to add a space under the recoil pad to get the stock a little longer. Without it the scope was way too close to my eye.

JStor
01-04-11, 10:05
Let's see...somebody wanted to know about the action stiffness. A google search will turn up a test whereas the Win. 70, Rem. 700 and Ruger 77 were somehow clamped and weights hung at the same point on the barrel. A dial indicator measured flex of the action, but I don't recall where the indicator was located. Ruger was the worst.

The Remy 700 was second worst. Why do you think one of the accuracy enhancements of the 700 is to use an action sleeve? You don't find Model 70 shooters trying to stiffen up their action. David Tubb and others have used Winchester 70s to good effect.

The Winchesters are forged and machined. The Ruger is investment cast and machined, and the Remy 700 is broached from a round tube and machined.

Also, before someone points at the military sniper rifles...it doesn't matter to me that the Marines use the Remy 700 for their actions. I am writing on the qualities or lack thereof of the action design and the flex in the action.

The military has armorers to care for the weapons, and in the heavier recoiling chartridges such as the .300 mag. the bedding loosens early. I presume this is because the bedding surfaces are round and offer little resistance, plus the recoil lug is added as a separate part between action and barrel. Also, I simply despise the extractor design...a weak link in the whole system if I ever saw one. Certainly they work, but the design was drawn up for less costly manufacturing, not because of perceived qualities.

Winchester screwed itself when they brought out the post 64 Model 70. It took until 1968 to finally get the post-64 action design to work better with an added anti-bind groove under the right side bolt lug. Finally, in the early '90s they brought back the controlled feed action named the Classic. I have some of both, and for real use there isn't much difference, except the controlled feed claw extractor is about as unbreakable as one can get. (as long as it is spring steel such as the Williams Firearms Co. units.)

The Winchester bolt field strips in under five seconds. Add the flat bedding surface behind the large integral recoil lug and flat sides that contact the bedding, the former open trigger design, three position safety and you have a foolproof system.

For those who must have a detachable mag, there are after market bottom metal assemblies that use the AICS mags.

If I were to deviate from a Model 70, I'd be looking hard at the CZ 550 actions and the Howa 1500 rifles. The only equation is not simply accuracy, but we want durability and reliable operation.

For after market stocks, McMillan rules. I wouldn't be afraid of buying a Manners stock, either.

I guess it might seem I am opinionated...well, yes I am. I don't apologize for what I like, nor am I expecting all to agree with me. Rock on.

Rob Haught
01-04-11, 10:33
Having tried the forward scope concept on a couple rifles Ive decided that its just not for me. The concept of a handy but powerful rifle does have merit. My solution was to take a Ruger 77 compact, 308 with laminate stock and stainless action and add a Decelerator pad, Black Armor Tuff finish and do a trigger job. This little rifle is very handy in and out of the truck and Rhino and with the Trijicon 3x9 and Scout Light it just about is perfect for me.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, I think if everything that is available today was there for Col. Cooper to use, the Scout Rifle may have turned out very different.

okie john
01-04-11, 11:32
However, I'm always willing to learn something new...what exactly does the scout offer that would be considered an advantage over say a regular "practical" rifle?

A proper Scout is light, slim and handy. It's quick in the hands like a 30/30 or an upland bird gun, but it reaches out and hits hard like the 308 that it is. I didn't appreciate it until I started trying to hit things fast within 150m. After I carried it on a couple of long hunts on steep, brushy, wet Pacific Northwest terrain, I started selling my longer, heavier rifles.


I will stick with my Winchester Model 70s with the far more rigid action.

Fair enough, but a rigid action doesn't help much once you get off the bench. You can appreciate a rifle with a rigid action by using calipers to measure the groups it shoots. You need a stopwatch to appreciate a Scout.


The Scout scope may work very well in daylight, but I understand that in low light the small objective scout scopes pretty much crap out.

Low-light performance has to do with the exit pupil, which is the diameter of the objective (front) lens divided by the magnification. John Plaster explains this very well in “The Ultimate Sniper.” As I understand it, the human pupil can only dilate to 6-7mm, so you don’t gain much with a bigger exit pupil. The Leupold Scout scope’s exit pupil is 12.17mm (28mm objective lens divided by the actual magnification of 2.3x), so that’s not the issue.

The problems most folks have with the Scout scope is at dawn and dusk when the light is behind the shooter—glare on the scope’s ocular (rear) lens makes it impossible to use. It works fine once the sun is farther up or down, or if you can turn 90 degrees, but targets don’t always cooperate. The other issue with the Scout scope is the low power, which I found limited my ability to see targets past about 175m. Most people who have tried the Scout concept like the short, light part of it but hate these two aspects of the forward-mounted scope.

A lot of them ended up with conventional scopes on their Steyr Scouts. I went to a Model 70 Featherweight, though I'd get a Kimber Montana today. My M-70 is slightly longer and slightly heavier than a proper Scout, but I've learned to hit with it quickly from offhand, so I don't feel like I've lost much.

The Ruger Scout will have to be a LOT better than my M-70 to replace it, which I don't expect, but I'll definitely give it a try. Times have changed and so have I.

Hope this helps,


Okie John

JStor
01-04-11, 12:20
Okie John: Thanks for the candid and helpful response. I have a short action, stainless steel Model 70 with featherweight barrel in a McMillan graphite stock. It would be a good candidate to test the scout concept on as it's about 7.5 pounds loaded with a Loopy 2.5-8 scope in Talley rings. I'd just need to look at what rail or forward mount would work.

Yea, I know the rigidity issue probably contributes nonmeasurable advantages once away from the bench, but its real value is in its "consistency" for lack of a better term.

okie john
01-04-11, 13:24
Glad to help.

You'll have to drill and tap your M-70, plus it will be offline during the time it's at the gunsmith, so I'd leave it alone if it's already dialed in. Three options you might consider are:

1. Buy a used Savage/Steyr/custom Scout.

2. Put a Scout scope on a Marlin 30/30 with an XS Sights rail.

3. Put a Scout scope on a Remington 700 Youth using a BSquare rail.

Then you can sell the components and go back to your life if you don't like it.


Okie John

Falboy
01-05-11, 06:41
My dad is a dealer, and will have one Thurs. Unfortunately, I had a car accident last Thurs. so I'm w/out wheels and I won't be able check it out immediately. By the way dealer price on this thing is very nice!

Tokarev
01-07-11, 12:59
Looks like these are shipping. Here's one on gunstroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=210391530

NoBody
01-07-11, 13:49
Too high, too high. :laugh:


Looks like these are shipping. Here's one on gunstroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=210391530

Falboy
01-07-11, 15:20
Got up to my dad's yesterday to check it out. All I can say is, I'll be adding one to my arsenal. Fit and finish is very nice, everything works smoothly. Trigger is descent, light, balances well, fixed sights come up easily. Ruger rings included in the box, so you can set this up either way. Scout or conventional. This thing still reminds me of an Enfield Jungle Carbine, which I've allways wanted. Can't wait to get one an spin that flashider off for an AAC one, so I can put my can on it. I obviously couldn't shoot it, as Dad will have it at a gun show in LaCrosse, WI today. If you're in the neighborhood, check it out.:cool:

Jake'sDad
01-07-11, 16:19
Too high, too high. :laugh:

I'm surprised he listed it below MSRP. Usually the guys with the first ones try and find a sucker with way too much money.


Got up to my dad's yesterday to check it out. All I can say is, I'll be adding one to my arsenal. Fit and finish is very nice, everything works smoothly. Trigger is descent, light, balances well, fixed sights come up easily. Ruger rings included in the box, so you can set this up either way. Scout or conventional. This thing still reminds me of an Enfield Jungle Carbine, which I've allways wanted. Can't wait to get one an spin that flashider off for an AAC one, so I can put my can on it. I obviously couldn't shoot it, as Dad will have it at a gun show in LaCrosse, WI today. If you're in the neighborhood, check it out.:cool:

Dang.... Maybe I am going to have to bite. Looking at the bolts in the side of the stock, I'm guessing it's not a standard one. Too bad. A lightweight plastic stock would sure make it a no brainer for me. The gun ought to weigh closer to 6 than 7 lbs. It will be interesting to see if anything can be adapted to it.

Arcana71
01-07-11, 17:55
Too high, too high. :laugh:
The rifle... is too damn high! :nono:

Tokarev
01-07-11, 20:48
I didn't post the link to gunstroker because I thought the gun was a good deal. There have been a few questions about when these will be available and I just wanted to show that these are turning up on dealers' shelves.

Here's another:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=210537997

Jake'sDad
01-07-11, 20:55
The rifle... is too damn high! :nono:

http://www.thegrio.com/assets_c/2010/10/rent-is-too-damn-high-thumb-400xauto-13615.jpg

JHC
01-08-11, 15:36
Lighter weight is alway appealing . . . but . . . I like the 7 lbs range as light enough. I spend a lot more time on the range than humping over ridgelines. I appreciate what looks me to me like a nice med weight barrel. Some of my friends with mountain rifles spend so much time waiting for their skinny barrels to cool vs shooting.

Jake'sDad
01-08-11, 17:48
Lighter weight is alway appealing . . . but . . . I like the 7 lbs range as light enough. I spend a lot more time on the range than humping over ridgelines. I appreciate what looks me to me like a nice med weight barrel. Some of my friends with mountain rifles spend so much time waiting for their skinny barrels to cool vs shooting.

I understand. I want to hunt with it, and at my age, rifles get heavy after a couple hours.

Hopefully Ruger or someone comes out with a plastic stock version so we can both get what we want.

skipper49
01-08-11, 20:03
Fellows,
Had to tell somebody about my new acquisition. Walked in my local shop today and they had just gotten their first Gunsite Scout Rifle in. My friend behind the counter handed it to me and I bought it within 3 minutes without ever putting it down. I knew when I saw the announcement a week or so ago that I was going to want one of these things really badly. I was so impressed with the balance, the appearance, and just the over-all "package". I've just come in with it and haven't even reopened the box. As soon as I get some decent glass on it, I will give you a review. But the weather here is not going to cooperate at all for several days. The price was $789 and several of the fellows in this shop are ordering a scout for themselves. Just had to let somebody know about my new toy.

Skip

merge from his announcement, mark5pt56

1911-A1
01-09-11, 13:07
I've had one of these rifles for a few years now. :D

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMK8AnbU43WHOTscIuDdL8jHSvOnRwppE3Vd1TNVv4SN6eT25C

Well ok, not exactly the same thing, but it has a flash hider, good irons, is chambered in 7.62 NATO, and can mount a bayonet.

Best of all, it cost me $250. :cool:

arcticlightfighter
01-09-11, 13:26
I've had one of these rifles for a few years now. :D

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMK8AnbU43WHOTscIuDdL8jHSvOnRwppE3Vd1TNVv4SN6eT25C

Well ok, not exactly the same thing, but it has a flash hider, good irons, is chambered in 7.62 NATO, and can mount a bayonet.

Best of all, it cost me $250. :cool:

Spanish FR8? Those were $125 about 20 years ago. I wish I had bought a couple at that price.

My buddy modded one nicely adding a scout base and re parked it. Same concept.

MistWolf
01-09-11, 16:15
I have never liked EER (Extended Eye Relief) scopes as I've found them to be slow to use with limited eye relief and blocked too much of the target. Compared to EER scopes, for fast moving targets, I prefer a properly mounted standard scope of 4x or less.

The exit pupil may be large enough on a good EER but the distance from the eye effectively reduces it's diameter. As much as I've admired JEff Cooper, I could never see the attraction of the EER.

I've used the 308 and other calibers in a 16 inch barrel. In regards to the 308, 16 inches is too short and produces too much muzzle blast and concussion for my tastes. It also starts reducing the ballistics of the 308 to the point that one might well consider using the 7.62x39 or the 300 Blackout in it's stead. A 20 inch barrel would be a better length although I find the 18 inch length to be handy without the sharp blast of the 16 inch barrel.

The magazine used is too long for it's capacity. A ten round magazine should protrude no further than that of the British Enfield and a five round magazine should fit flush, or nearly so. Considering the size of the AICS ten rounder, twenty rounds could be had in a double stack double feed magazine for little additional length.

As for the "fetish" for an M14 magazine, it's easy to explain. It's a rugged, proven design and quality magazines are in current production. Five round M14 magazines would fit flush, or nearly so. There are poor quality knock-offs as any M14 rifleman knows, just as there are poor quality AR mags, but they are easily identified and can be avoided.

For this application, I like the "plywood stock". Although a one piece walnut stock works well enough and looks good, the laminate stock is much more rugged and stable. It's also easier to machine.

Overall, I like the idea of a bolt action Scout Rifle. As well executed the Ruger is, for myself, the barrel length and inefficient magazine design are deal breakers

1911-A1
01-09-11, 17:53
Spanish FR8? Those were $125 about 20 years ago. I wish I had bought a couple at that price.

My buddy modded one nicely adding a scout base and re parked it. Same concept.

Yes, I found one at a gun shop in the C&R rack. It smells a little funky, so I'm on the lookout for a way to fit it with some polymer furniture. I'd love to do a cheap scout mount, too.

Does your buddy have any photos or a writeup on what he did to his?

cqbdriver
01-09-11, 18:14
I would have preferred a shorter mag for a less tactical look. On another forum, some mentioned this company that makes shorter AICS compatible mags:

http://www.alphaindmfg.com/index.html

There is a photo of their 10rd mag next to an AICS 10rd mag here:
http://www.tacticalworks.com/Alpha-Type-1-10-Shot-Magazine.html

Any one know any thing about this mag? Only bad thing is that it cost about the same as AICS.

usmcvet
01-09-11, 18:18
I would have preferred a shorter mag for a less tactical look. On another forum, some mentioned this company that makes shorter AICS compatible mags:

http://www.alphaindmfg.com/index.html

There is a photo of their 10rd mag next to an AICS 10rd mag here:
http://www.tacticalworks.com/Alpha-Type-1-10-Shot-Magazine.html

Any one know any thing about this mag? Only bad thing is that it cost about the same as AICS.

They have a 5 rounds mags too.

So the links of the mags you shared will work too? It is nice to have options.

pappy86
01-09-11, 18:26
I will agree with you on the EER scope thing, I dont care for it either. I will disagree with you on a 16 inch barrel being like a 7.62x39. The two rifles pictured below shoot much faster then any 7.62x39. The Savage will shoot sub moa out to 600yds I know for sure, and remmy is sub moa at 200yds and probably farther. I dont many 7.62x39's that will push a 130gr bullet to 3050fps, or a 175gr to 2620fps.http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu16/soumigirl/Guns/002.jpg

cqbdriver
01-09-11, 18:41
They have a 5 rounds may too.

So the links of the mags you shared will work too? It is nice to have options.

According to their website, it appears to work:
"The Alpha magazine is designed to fit and function with any DBM that was designed to accept AICS type magazines unless otherwise stated."

However, I no 1st-hand experience with the company or their mag.

BAC
01-09-11, 20:40
Is there something about G3, M14, or FAL mags that prevents their use in bolt action rifles? Are there 10 round G3/M14/FAL mags? I ask because while I like that the practical bolt gun concept is becoming more popular, seeing the $60+ price tag per mag makes me cringe.


-B

ST911
01-09-11, 22:40
For those of you who have handled and contemplated one in person...

Are there obvious places where weight could be shed, via machining or other work? A wood stock could be bored or recontoured, were one ambitious.

cqbdriver
01-10-11, 05:16
Is there something about G3, M14, or FAL mags that prevents their use in bolt action rifles? Are there 10 round G3/M14/FAL mags? I ask because while I like that the practical bolt gun concept is becoming more popular, seeing the $60+ price tag per mag makes me cringe.


-B

As states earlier in the thread, Ruger considered the M14 mag, but ran into trouble with variations in mags build by different companies.

There are 5rd & 10rd Mags for the G3, FAL & M14(M1A).

skipper49
01-10-11, 06:14
For those of you who have handled and contemplated one in person...

Are there obvious places where weight could be shed, via machining or other work? A wood stock could be bored or recontoured, were one ambitious.

I just don't have a problem with the weight on mine. I think the excellent(to me) balance helps to negate any perceived weight problem. Having said that,while I really like the laminated stock,it won't be long before someone offers a synthetic stock that shaves a few ounces. I also would not want to give up the medium contour barrel for a slightly lighter tube. I pretty much like it just like it is.

Skip

cqbdriver
01-10-11, 06:35
Skip,

Word of warning - you make another post without posting photos, I will use my power as a forum member to buy my own rifle & post photos. Reminder - last warning!

Good read on scout rifle history:
http://eclecticbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/06/on-scout-rifles.html

Unfortunately, through this same blogger, I learned that Eric Ching passed away in 2007:
http://eclecticbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/06/surrounded.html

skipper49
01-10-11, 06:55
Skip,

Word of warning - you make another post without posting photos, I will use my power as a forum member to buy my own rifle & post photos. Reminder - last warning!

Good read on scout rifle history:
http://eclecticbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/06/on-scout-rifles.html

Unfortunately, through this same blogger, I learned that Eric Ching passed away in 2007:
http://eclecticbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/06/surrounded.html

Warning duely aknowledged :D
Haven't posted pictures here before,I don't think,but I'll try.
To tell the truth though,until glass and sling are added,if you've seen one picture you've seen them all. Kinda like posting "stock" Glock pictures.
BTW, thanks for the links.

Skip

mark5pt56
01-10-11, 07:03
Time will tell with these aftermarket magazines. Regardless if they are offered with a factory rifle, they are copies of the AI magazine.

Tha AI magazine has been proven over time to work in adverse conditions.

My experience with copies of the original isn't positive and would gladly spend the extra coin to get something I know works verses one that might.

skipper49
01-10-11, 09:30
Fellows,
Thought I'd give you some photos for comparison size-wise. That's about all the photos are good for as I'm using a very early digital camera and I know about as much about photography and computers as I do brain surgery. Nevertheless, thought the comparison pix might be useful. Comparison pieces are Colt 6920, Colt Sporter Match HBAR, and Mossberg 590A1.

decodeddiesel
01-10-11, 10:49
OK let me preface all of this by saying that I am very familiar with Jeff Coopers Scout concept after first hearing about it in G&A back in the 80s. I also remember how G&A ran their scout against something like an AK or a FAL in a timed course of fire and it fell flat on it's face compaired to the semis. When I first saw the thread when it first started I though "Ok, what exactly will this rifle do better than an M1A Scout or 18" FAL?" I held off on posting here until I had a better understanding of things. Now I am realizing the true beauty of this rifle.

I really think I am really getting into it now. I love the fact that they went with a shorter barrel on this rifle AND while it comes with a cheesy Mini-14'ish FH the gem here is the factory threaded barrel in a standard thread pitch. This gun BEGS for a good, inexpensive 30cal suppressor (YHM perhaps). I have to admit, the laminated stock looks great, and there is just something about shooting a bolt gun with a wood stock. Also I think the adjustable length of pull is excellent. Finally I really appreciate the decision to use AI magazines. Yes they are not cheap, but for feeding a bolt action .308 there really isn't any other option as far as I am concerned.

The only things I am concerned about are: The twist rate for one. Perhaps it is mentioned in the thread and I missed it. Please tell me that with the 16" barrel they went with a 1 in 10? (ETA: found it, 1 in 10...awesome!) If it can't shoot M118LR it is a non-starter for me, and the ability to shoot 220gr subsonic handloads is very appealing. The realistic mechanical accuracy attainable from the rifle. Is 600 yards+ realistic with this rifle and something like a NF 2.5-10x32? The durability of the trigger mechanism and of the rifle it's self.

I think this gun will fill a void in my safe. I will probably pick one up once the price stabilizes and there is some more user feedback available.

ETA: I think the NF 2.5-10x32 with the Velocity Ballistic reticle would be tits on this little rifle, maybe even with a good piggyback RDS.

Jake'sDad
01-10-11, 11:27
For those of you who have handled and contemplated one in person...

Are there obvious places where weight could be shed, via machining or other work? A wood stock could be bored or recontoured, were one ambitious.

A lot of the weight is going to be that laminated stock, they're really heavy. A plastic one could shave a lb or so easy. There's probably 4 or 6 ounces in the barrel that could go away as well.


I just don't have a problem with the weight on mine. I think the excellent(to me) balance helps to negate any perceived weight problem. Having said that,while I really like the laminated stock,it won't be long before someone offers a synthetic stock that shaves a few ounces. I also would not want to give up the medium contour barrel for a slightly lighter tube. I pretty much like it just like it is.

Skip

If the stock is greatly modified from a 77 stock, (as it appears), the gun is going to have to sell very well for an aftermarket one to be produced. You could probably get one of the custom guys to do one, but then you'd be paying $700 bucks or more for it.

The gun looks great as is, but I'd still like it better if it were 6 lbs instead of 7.

Jake'sDad
01-10-11, 11:39
ETA: I think the NF 2.5-10x32 with the Velocity Ballistic reticle would be tits on this little rifle, maybe even with a good piggyback RDS.

Yowza.....

That scope's still 19 ounces, without rings. And a RDS?

If you end up with a 10 lb rifle, what's the advantage of it over an 18" 700P with a lightweight stock? I just don't see this as a precision long range rifle. A compact 1X4 or 1X5 is what I'd put on it. Really liking the idea of a TR21 with a backwards extended larue mount.

But we all have different needs, obviously.

decodeddiesel
01-10-11, 12:53
Yowza.....

That scope's still 19 ounces, without rings. And a RDS?

If you end up with a 10 lb rifle, what's the advantage of it over an 18" 700P with a lightweight stock? I just don't see this as a precision long range rifle. A compact 1X4 or 1X5 is what I'd put on it. Really liking the idea of a TR21 with a backwards extended larue mount.

But we all have different needs, obviously.

In thinking about it, you are right the RDS would probably be kind of stupid.

One thing to keep in mind though is that a TR21 in a Larue SPR-E would end up weighing nearly as much as the NF in a set of Ruger-style alloy rings. Further if one could find a NF 2.5-10x24 (not too hard to do) one could drop the weight even further.

I guess I really just don't see much of a point to a 1-4 variable on a rifle like this, especially with the Trijicon huge triangle reticle. Maybe the German #4 would be better, but still...To me, no matter how much Cooper believed in the concept and how hard Ruger and Gunsight is trying to push it as a close range "defensive carbine" it doesn't change the fact that it is a bolt action .308. It will never replace, nor hold a candle to the capabilities of an AR in this regard.

I guess I just see it as a relatively light weight, fast handling, DBM fed, intermediate range rifle. Seems like it would be perfect for a mid power variable optic and a suppressor.

cqbdriver
01-10-11, 13:30
I don’t know if it is proper to quote from another forum, but 03humpalot on LF explains the concept that I have for this rifle more clearly than I could:

"Like said above you either get the concept or you dont, and you either have a use for the weapon or not.

If you have never ran a scout type setup i encourage you to do so if the opportunity should present itself.

If you are strictly shooting bambi in the face from a $400.00 tree stand then yes, grandpa's meat gun will fill that role.

If you have the possibility of having to shoot asholes in the face then yes a quality built RDS/slung/white light equipped M4 is the way to go.

If you have the possibility of having to stop a large pissed off critter then a .45-70 levergun or 12 guage pump action shotgun with slugs is a great way to go.

Enter this Ruger rifle with either a long eye relief optic or T1 mounted. Does it excell at any of these roles? Nope, but it can be pressed into service to a handle all of the above situations.”

Jake'sDad
01-10-11, 13:31
In thinking about it, you are right the RDS would probably be kind of stupid.

One thing to keep in mind though is that a TR21 in a Larue SPR-E would end up weighing nearly as much as the NF in a set of Ruger-style alloy rings. Further if one could find a NF 2.5-10x24 (not too hard to do) one could drop the weight even further.

I guess I really just don't see much of a point to a 1-4 variable on a rifle like this, especially with the Trijicon huge triangle reticle. Maybe the German #4 would be better, but still...To me, no matter how much Cooper believed in the concept and how hard Ruger and Gunsight is trying to push it as a close range "defensive carbine" it doesn't change the fact that it is a bolt action .308. It will never replace, nor hold a candle to the capabilities of an AR in this regard.

I guess I just see it as a relatively light weight, fast handling, DBM fed, intermediate range rifle. Seems like it would be perfect for a mid power variable optic and a suppressor.

I agree mostly. The TR21 and mount would still be a little lighter, and you'd get a RDS included. I agree about the triangle, and I was thinking about the German reticule as well. Maybe the new Vortex 1X4 would also be something to consider, though you might be able to retain the rear sight, with a TR21 in that backwards Larue, given the long eye relief in the TR21. I also agree this gun isn't a good short range defensive carbine, compared to an AR, but having a lighted dot in a 1X would at least give it some capability there. 4X isn't a long range optic, but at 500 yards, it can still do "minute of deer".

In any event, it's nice to see Ruger making a gun that we're even talking about.

Jake'sDad
01-10-11, 13:43
I don’t know if it is proper to quote from another forum, but 03humpalot on LF explains the concept that I have for this rifle more clearly than I could:

"Like said above you either get the concept or you dont, and you either have a use for the weapon or not.

If you have never ran a scout type setup i encourage you to do so if the opportunity should present itself.

If you are strictly shooting bambi in the face from a $400.00 tree stand then yes, grandpa's meat gun will fill that role.

If you have the possibility of having to shoot asholes in the face then yes a quality built RDS/slung/white light equipped M4 is the way to go.

If you have the possibility of having to stop a large pissed off critter then a .45-70 levergun or 12 guage pump action shotgun with slugs is a great way to go.

Enter this Ruger rifle with either a long eye relief optic or T1 mounted. Does it excell at any of these roles? Nope, but it can be pressed into service to a handle all of the above situations.”

Good points, but having owned a couple custom Scouts before, including very early on, and still owning a Steyr, I can say for me, the TR21-TR24 optic completely out classes the LER Leupold or Burris. I can snap shoot just as well, but with a quick turn of the dial, have a 4X actual scope. And the lighted reticle gives me low light capability beyond the Leupold. The Scout scope was a real revelation for me when I first tried it, but since I got a TR24, I haven't used the Leupold.

okie john
01-10-11, 14:06
For those of you who have handled and contemplated one in person...

Are there obvious places where weight could be shed, via machining or other work? A wood stock could be bored or recontoured, were one ambitious.

I haven't handled this model yet, but I've handled plenty of Rugers. This is a Hawkeye stock with a different barrel channel. It has some extra wood but not much. I'd remove weight internally by drilling out the buttstock and hogging out the barrel channel to leave the checkering intact.

I'd hesitate to alter the barrel. The Scout scope mounts have always been a problem, especially as the barrel heats up. I'd guess that this barrel has the profile it does for a very good reason.


Okie John

cqbdriver
01-10-11, 14:27
Good points, but having owned a couple custom Scouts before, including very early on, and still owning a Steyr, I can say for me, the TR21-TR24 optic completely out classes the LER Leupold or Burris. I can snap shoot just as well, but with a quick turn of the dial, have a 4X actual scope. And the lighted reticle gives me low light capability beyond the Leupold. The Scout scope was a real revelation for me when I first tried it, but since I got a TR24, I haven't used the Leupold.

I have no problem with that. I am still trying to define my requirements & I may end up TR24 when all is said & done. I don’t feel that I have to stay with the true Scout Rifle concept. I want a rifle that best fits my needs.

In fact, all this discussion has my little brain turning & I may end up with my own custom build rifle. Of course that gets expensive fast if I did it the way I want.

Hardest part now is getting the guy who is defining the requirements to makeup his mind.

BAC
01-10-11, 16:49
As states earlier in the thread, Ruger considered the M14 mag, but ran into trouble with variations in mags build by different companies.

There are 5rd & 10rd Mags for the G3, FAL & M14(M1A).

Fair enough on the M14 mags, but that still leaves two other readily available, inexpensive, reliable magazines to consider (unless the 5 and 10 round versions are less so than the 20 rounders).

I suppose I'm still holding out hope for someone to make an iron-sighted 6.5-7 lb bolt gun with an 18" barrel, youth stock with a more vertical pistol grip, that takes common and inexpensive magazines (AR mags for a .223 version, FAL or G3 mags for a .308 version) for < $700. Conceptually this doesn't seem that hard, but the only bolt gun I have to look at to 'visualize' is my Mauser.


-B

Jake'sDad
01-10-11, 16:51
I have no problem with that. I am still trying to define my requirements & I may end up TR24 when all is said & done.

I'm really interested in the TR21 with it's longer eye relief, if it can be made to work with the forward rail by using a extended mount backwards on it. That would let you keep the rear iron sight if it works.


In fact, all this discussion has my little brain turning & I may end up with my own custom build rifle. Of course that gets expensive fast if I did it the way I want.

Yeah...that's the rub. I had more in my custom scouts 20+ years ago than this Ruger costs today.


Hardest part now is getting the guy who is defining the requirements to makeup his mind.

Well give him a kick in the butt and get it done! :)

decodeddiesel
01-10-11, 17:27
In comparing this the the Steyr Scout, I really wish Ruger would have used a synthetic stock.

Todd.K
01-10-11, 18:09
I'm really interested in the TR21 with it's longer eye relief...

You should be able to clear the rear sight and still have proper eye relief if you keep the LOP on the shorter side.

My Model 7 youth with TR21 (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=747368&postcount=71)

usmcvet
01-10-11, 18:41
As states earlier in the thread, Ruger considered the M14 mag, but ran into trouble with variations in mags build by different companies.

There are 5rd & 10rd Mags for the G3, FAL & M14(M1A).

I've seen photos and videos on YouTube of the IER compact rifle from Ruger using M14 mags.

Jake'sDad
01-10-11, 19:38
You should be able to clear the rear sight and still have proper eye relief if you keep the LOP on the shorter side.

My Model 7 youth with TR21 (https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=747368&postcount=71)

Yup...I got thinking about it after seeing your cool little rifle. But I don't know if you an use the barrel mount and the front receiver mount together on the Ruger. They look like they might be too different in height. But I'll figure that out after I see one in person.

deadduck357
01-15-11, 03:02
Gunsite sent a rifle from the Ruger Scout Rifle gunwriters' review. This was one of the rifles tested, which I bought while I was there.
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8551/rugerscout1a.jpg

The Gunsite logo, as cut into the pistol grip.
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8489/rugerscout2a.jpg

The rifle as it came out of the box. As we didn't have much time for inspections at Gunsite, it's good to finally get to handle and look it over.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5926/rugerscout3a.jpg

Specs:

Length: 38 7/16 in. (with 1 half-inch spacer)
Weight: 7 lbs 0.4 oz. (with 1 half-inch spacer)
Barrel length: 16.5 in. (mfr)
Barrel twist: 1/10 RH - 6 groove (mfr)
Length of pull: 12.75 in. to 14.25 in.(mfr)


The view looking forward, showing both the factory irons and the forward mounted rail. The layout is highly adaptive to many different configurations depending on the requirements of the shooter: scout scope, red dot, holographic, or - with the removal of the rear sight - a conventional scope using Ruger's integral bases. And unlike most manufacturers, Ruger includes their Mini-14/30 type iron sights as a standard option.
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6489/rugerscout4a.jpg

The M77 action uses a 90 degree bolt throw. Operation of the bolt is a controlled round feed.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7084/rugerscout5a.jpg

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7734/rugerscout6a.jpg

The magazine well.
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/363/rugerscout7a.jpg

The rifle, broken into component parts. I wanted to disassemble it for purposes of cleaning and familiarization. The stock is black laminate with aggressive checkering and has a solid heft.
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/5093/rugerscout8a.jpg

The barreled action. Except for the bolt and trigger group all metal parts are alloy steel with a matte black finish.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8913/rugerscout9a.jpg

Detail of the 15-slot 1913 Picatinny rail.
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/7421/rugerscout10a.jpg

deadduck357
01-15-11, 03:02
Rear sight, fixed to the receiver's rear integral mount by a hex bolt and adjusts for both windage and elevation. Users of the Ruger Mini-series rifles will find this familiar.
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9096/rugerscout11a.jpg

Front sight. Fixed blade and non-adjustable with protective wings.
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3787/rugerscout12a.jpg

The trigger group utilizes the Ruger LC6 trigger. The safety is three position; rear locks bolt and trigger, middle locks trigger but allows bolt movement, and forward is FIRE.
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5845/rugerscout13a.jpg

Polymer trigger guard and mag well group. The magazine release is a lever similar to the Mini-14/30.
http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/7282/rugerscout14a.jpg

The stainless steel bolt. Mauser type external claw extractor.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2258/rugerscout15a.jpg

The distinctive AC556 type flash suppressor. The muzzle is threaded for 5/8 x 24 TPI. It's removable for use with a sound suppressor or swapped for a muzzle brake.
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7133/rugerscout16a.jpg

The adjustable stock spacer system. Three spacers included at half inch widths. The butt pad is soft and effective at dampening felt recoil.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7831/rugerscout17a.jpg

The spacers and recoil pad are held in place by hex bolts, for which Ruger has included a proper Allen wrench. Also included are Ruger's 1 inch factory scope rings and a matched Torx wrench.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8799/rugerscout18a.jpg

Average trigger pull was 3 lbs 10.9 oz over a five pull test (with Lyman gauge).
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5476/rugerscout19a.jpg

GSR with 10-rd magazine inserted. The rifle ships with a 10-rd metal magazine based off the AI type design, and a 5-rd is also available from Ruger. My understanding is the magazines are a staggered/single feed design.
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4977/rugerscout20a.jpg

Having spent some time getting to know this rifle I found the action quite smooth with a solid lockup. With a 1/2 in. spacer installed I find the rifle to be quick handling and easy to shoulder.

Can't wait to get this one to the range. Range test soon to follow.

mark5pt56
01-15-11, 06:56
Looks good. Another owner tested the actual AI mags which work as expected. He also reversed an ADM cantilevered mount for use of a standard scope which cleared the rear sight and had proper eye relief. He is using a rear stock pack for better cheek weld. Word back from him is Ashley is working on a rear sight rail combo for those of us who do not want the forward scope mount.

In my opinion 3 fails-

The afterthought of the rear sight/rail combo after market feedback.

Plastic trigger guard/mag housing

No decent Synthetic stock such as a Manners or at least a B&C-I would have the side mounted flush cups for a VCAS

Overall, not a bad stick though.

Jake'sDad
01-15-11, 10:10
Looks good. Another owner tested the actual AI mags which work as expected. He also reversed an ADM cantilevered mount for use of a standard scope which cleared the rear sight and had proper eye relief.

Excellent news. That's what I was hoping for.


Word back from him is Ashley is working on a rear sight rail combo for those of us who do not want the forward scope mount.

A number of folks have written them and asked for that.





In my opinion 3 fails-

The afterthought of the rear sight/rail combo after market feedback.

Plastic trigger guard/mag housing

No decent Synthetic stock such as a Manners or at least a B&C-I would have the side mounted flush cups for a VCAS.

Two out of three should at least eventually be fixable. If the gun sells, someone will come out with a synthetic for it, or Ruger may even come out with one. If the stock is just a modified Model 77 stock, any of the custom makers should be able to do one.

Hopefully the plastic trigger guard doesn't present any issues.

Looking forward to getting mine.

mark5pt56
01-15-11, 11:59
I would hope that some firms such as Hooper Ordnance and CDI may see an interest in making the bottom metal for these.

My take is that they were narrowly focused on a particulair crowd/following that has an interest in the "scout". I say narrowly because they should have anticipated the market much better than they did as far as I'm concerned.

Right now, I think I'm waiting to see what becomes available and or changes to minimize after purchase upgrades.

As I understand, the barrel is not floated in this. If that's a concern or if accuracy suffers as a result, some sanding is in order. I know it's not a "match gun" and don't expect it to be, but it should be moa with good ammunition as is.

Jake'sDad
01-15-11, 12:27
I would hope that some firms such as Hooper Ordnance and CDI may see an interest in making the bottom metal for these.

I'm going to guess not. I doubt most guys buying this would pop to replace one detachable mag bottom for another just for material, especially for the money it would cost.

mark5pt56
01-15-11, 14:30
I'm going to guess not. I doubt most guys buying this would pop to replace one detachable mag bottom for another just for material, especially for the money it would cost.

I'm sure that's why there's the polymer one on there to begin with. Who knows-maybe it's stronger.

Jake'sDad
01-15-11, 14:31
I'm sure that's why there's the polymer one on there to begin with. Who knows-maybe it's stronger.

Ruger usually over engineers, so maybe so.

pappy86
01-15-11, 18:30
I am waiting to see how they shoot. hopefully they shoot good. There is no reason they should not shoot moa, lots of factory rifles do that. If they are not accurate people will blame the short barrel which will make future rifles like this tough to market. A 16inch barrel can shoot moa with ease.

Jake'sDad
01-15-11, 18:36
I am waiting to see how they shoot. hopefully they shoot good. There is no reason they should not shoot moa, lots of factory rifles do that. If they are not accurate people will blame the short barrel which will make future rifles like this tough to market. A 16inch barrel can shoot moa with ease.

If people blame a short barrel for lack of accuracy, they're living under a rock, given how many accurate 16"-18" rifles have been sold. 20 years ago when you had a barrel cut down, guys would wig out about how it "wouldn't be accurate", but that's died down among most of those that actually shoot.

Ruger's been selling a lot of 16" guns for some time now.

pappy86
01-15-11, 19:54
http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu16/soumigirl/short308001.jpgI hope you are right, I still get lots of weird looks from people when they see my short barreled rifles at the range, like I am crazy. I hope Remington or Savage will make a rifle like the Ruger, The Savage scout rifle could be a lot better, they need to make a 16inch Precision carbine with Iron sights, or Remington should make a 16 inch version of the SPS with Irons and call it good, both manufactuers offer threaded barrels in these rifles. Savage comes with a DBM and there are 9 round magazines available. Either of those two rifles would shoot great and be very handy with a low power scope and in the Savages case would weigh less then the Ruger. I know this for fact as my Savage is under 8 pounds with a 2.5-10x42 IOR scope. build it like this one Savage with a good set of iron sights and you would have a great huntiing/tactical rig.

deadduck357
01-15-11, 21:46
As I understand, the barrel is not floated in this. If that's a concern or if accuracy suffers as a result, some sanding is in order. I know it's not a "match gun" and don't expect it to be, but it should be moa with good ammunition as is.

Mark, they are a floated barrel.

pappy86
01-16-11, 19:31
A guy over at the Hide just posted a range report at 200yds the groups averaged between low 2 inch to low 3 inch. Not awful, but not real good either. hopefully some more info will come in. He had a 1.5-5 leupold on it, I am going to the range in the morning if weather permits and try a 200yd group at 4 power to see what I get. Last 200yd group I shot was at 10x and measured under 1inch. I really want to pick one of these up for my son to hunt with if the price is right and they shoot.

Jake'sDad
01-16-11, 20:24
A guy over at the Hide just posted a range report at 200yds the groups averaged between low 2 inch to low 3 inch. Not awful, but not real good either. hopefully some more info will come in. He had a 1.5-5 leupold on it, I am going to the range in the morning if weather permits and try a 200yd group at 4 power to see what I get. Last 200yd group I shot was at 10x and measured under 1inch. I really want to pick one of these up for my son to hunt with if the price is right and they shoot.

Just for info, the guy joined that forum yesterday, has 9 posts, and admits to not being a great shot.


I'm still hopeful for it to be a 1 MOA or better gun.

Robb Jensen
01-17-11, 05:30
I like this new Ruger Gunsite rifle. I really like the fact that it uses a AICS compatible bottom metal. The mag that the rifle we had in the shop came with was made by Accurate-Mag. The trigger was excellent. What I also liked about it was that if one didn't like or want to use the Scout mount you can just remove the rear sight and mount the scope in the conventional was using Ruger rings. I really like the fact that you can change the length of pull. I prefer shorter stocks.

My Rem 700 precision rifle has an AI stock and I own several 5 and 10 round AICS mags which I could use with this rifle.

I would like to see them offer this rifle in other calibers like 6.8SPC, 6.5Grendel, 7mm-08, .260Rem etc.

I think I might pick one of these up myself. With our standard markup we sold it new for $799.

cqbdriver
01-21-11, 03:48
I found one in a local store yesterday for $729. Decided to get it & started the paper work. Sales guy comes back & says sorry but we can't sell this one because it is the only one we have & they want to keep it as a demo.

They would order one for me if I wanted & it would take about 10 days. I passed. Partly because of past experiences with new product supposely only taking days, ended up being months & partly I was pissed that they agreed to sell it & started the paper then was told no sale.

It was nice in the few minutes that I got to fondle it.

Tokarev
01-21-11, 06:47
Pretty decent overview provided by Mark Gurney here:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ruger-308-gunsite-scout-rifle-10-round-mag-lc9-features/

decodeddiesel
01-21-11, 09:54
I found one in a local store yesterday for $729. Decided to get it & started the paper work. Sales guy comes back & says sorry but we can't sell this one because it is the only one we have & they want to keep it as a demo.

They would order one for me if I wanted & it would take about 10 days. I passed. Partly because of past experiences with new product supposely only taking days, ended up being months & partly I was pissed that they agreed to sell it & started the paper then was told no sale.

It was nice in the few minutes that I got to fondle it.

That is some garbage. They would have gotten an earful had that been me.

A shame, I was hoping for some more end user range reports.

carbinero
01-21-11, 11:02
I found one in a local store yesterday for $729. Decided to get it & started the paper work. Sales guy comes back & says sorry but we can't sell this one because it is the only one we have & they want to keep it as a demo.

They would order one for me if I wanted & it would take about 10 days. I passed. Partly because of past experiences with new product supposely only taking days, ended up being months & partly I was pissed that they agreed to sell it & started the paper then was told no sale.

It was nice in the few minutes that I got to fondle it.

Hard to believe they would blow an FFL form for that. Dealers get too much grief from BATFE to be doing that. Let alone potentially pissing off a customer.

hickuleas
01-21-11, 12:29
Bud's Gunshop has these for $720.00 with free shipping couldn't resist. The scope will be a harder choice than the rifle was, just never could warm up to the forward mount scope.

dudley2112
01-21-11, 13:58
cant wait for these to make their way up here! only thing is they wont be coming with the flash suppressor :mad: hope they will at least have the threading though so i can throw one on.

cqbdriver
01-21-11, 15:42
I found one in other store & picked up this afternoon.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/GSR.jpg

One store loss is another store's gain (for future purchases too)

hickuleas
01-21-11, 15:47
Hey cqbdriver, You must be a real dog. Those black paws in the pic, or you have a canine photographer.

cqbdriver
01-21-11, 15:51
From looking at other's photos, I thought toes in the photos were a requirement. Mine are pretty ugly. So, I let the dog take the photo. He does Ok with the camera, but he sucks with a pistol.

Tokarev
01-21-11, 17:06
I found one in other store & picked up this afternoon.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/GSR.jpg

One store loss is another store's gain (for future purchases too)

Let your dog run a few rounds through it. Let him post a review when he's done!:)

cqbdriver
01-21-11, 17:45
Trigger pull averaged around 4.5 lbs on the rifle.

Not much else to report. I'll probably shoot it tomorrow, but I won't have a scout scope for a while. It will be iron sights & may be a red dot for now. I may pull a regular scope off another rifle to test the accuracy.

My lab not interested the rifle. He is only into shotguns & duck hunting.

deadduck357
01-21-11, 18:16
Trigger pull averaged around 4.5 lbs on the rifle.

Not much else to report. I'll probably shoot it tomorrow, but I won't have a scout scope for a while. It will be iron sights & may be a red dot for now. I may pull a regular scope off another rifle to test the accuracy.

My lab not interested the rifle. He is only into shotguns & duck hunting.

Got all the ammo in that I wanted for the range report and am going to try to get out there this weekend BUT it is also our last weekend for Duck season, there is also a gun show, ohh the decisions. May have to make the hound happy and not let him miss out on the finale.

Jake'sDad
01-21-11, 21:43
Got back from Vegas and my Vortex PST 1-4 was in.

Might be just the ticket for the Scout.

decodeddiesel
01-21-11, 22:14
Bud's Gunshop has these for $720.00 with free shipping couldn't resist. The scope will be a harder choice than the rifle was, just never could warm up to the forward mount scope.

Link? Can't find it anywhere on their site.

decodeddiesel
01-21-11, 23:08
OK I am sold on the fact that I want this rifle, or something very close. Right now I am really doing a serious comparison between this and the newer Tikka T3 scout CTR. The Steyr Scout is unobtanium, and the Savage is...well a Savage.

Price-wise they are almost identical, the Ruger is slightly less (about $60).

Given the Sako rifles I have shot and handled, I would be willing to bet the Tikka will blow the Ruger out of the water on accuracy, trigger pull, bolt feel, etc.

The Tikka has a 20" barrel which is good for longer ranges, bad for handling. Also the Tikka barrel is not threaded from the factory. Not to say that one could not have the Tikka chopped to 18" or so and threaded easily. On that matter, I am sorry but once again I am sure a CHF Sako barrel is >> a CFH Ruger barrel...sorry Ruger.

The Ruger takes AICS mags which is probably better than the Tikka mags except for the fact that Tikka mags can be had for much less $$ and weigh less. It is nice though that you can get a 10 round AICS and the Tikka is limited to 5. One could get the CDI bottom metal and have the Tikka take AICS mags (probably a good idea).

The Tikka lacks irons, which are for sure a requirement on a Scout rifle, but for my uses I am not too worried. I have settled on a Leupold MR/T M2 1.5-5x for the gun anyway and honestly at 1.5x this scope will work well enough for close in for me.

The Tikka synthetic stock, while not as snazzy as the Ruger laminate, is FAR more practical. I do like the idea of the spacer system in the Ruger though, it seems like a well thought out feature.

The Tikka with the 20" barrel weighs 7.9lbs while the Ruger is 7.0lbs. Chopping the Tikka to 16.5" would solve that problem I bet.

All in all the Tikka is more of a precision rifle trying to be a scout, while the Ruger is an actual dedicated Cooper Scout Rifle. I suppose I will have to really decide which fits my needs and desires better. The Ruger GSR is a very appealing Camping/Trunk/Road Trip all purpose rifle, where the Tikka would be more of a dedicated small handy precision rifle.

mark5pt56
01-22-11, 03:20
Got back from Vegas and my Vortex PST 1-4 was in.

Might be just the ticket for the Scout.

If you get some time, please do a review of that scope.

rat31465
01-22-11, 08:23
My biggest concern is whether Ruger took the pains to actually produce a good chamber or if they are using the same specs and reamers as for their other line of rifles..?

skipper49
01-22-11, 09:58
I've only shot mine with the excellent irons, but I'm loving this rifle. Good looking,accurate,easy shooting,crisp trigger out of the box, and all the options that I'd want. What's not to like?(for me)
Also like the many sighting options this rifle offers.

Skip

Jake'sDad
01-22-11, 10:19
If you get some time, please do a review of that scope.

I'm probably not qualified to give an intelligent review of it, but I like the size and weight, and the glass looks clear to my eye. The illumination seems like it's not quite right, but I'm going to have someone else look at it to see if it's just my eyesight before I mount it up on anything.

Weaver had a 30MM 1X5 illuminated scope at the show as well that looked pretty interesting.

Tokarev
01-22-11, 10:21
I'm probably not qualified to give an intelligent review of it, but I like the size and weight, and the glass looks clear to my eye. The illumination seems like it's not quite right, but I'm going to have someone else look at it to see if it's just my eyesight before I mount it up on anything.

Weaver had a 30MM 1X5 illuminated scope at the show as well that looked pretty interesting.

How's the Vortex reticle? From the pictures I've seen, it looks extremely busy.

Jake'sDad
01-22-11, 10:22
My biggest concern is whether Ruger took the pains to actually produce a good chamber or if they are using the same specs and reamers as for their other line of rifles..?

I've had and seen several 77's that shoot sub MOA. Is there something in particular that is an issue about Ruger chambers?

Jake'sDad
01-22-11, 10:25
How's the Vortex reticle? From the pictures I've seen, it looks extremely busy.

I got the TMCQ MOA, and it seems OK to me, but again, I'm not Mr. precision rifle or anything.

cqbdriver
01-22-11, 15:30
I took the rifle out to the range today. I fired about 80 rds through it. I don’t have a scout scope yet. So, I mounted an old Weaver 1-3X scope. After testing the accuracy, I removed the scope & but the rear iron sight back on & sighted it. Then I just test the rifle in various positions to get a feel for the rifle.

I am very happy with it so far. Recoil was much less than expected. Usually 80 rds through a bolt gun is enough for me. An old shoulder injury use limits how much I can fire before it becomes not enjoyable any more. After 80 rds through the GSR, I was fine & ready for more, but out of ammo.

The sound blast from the 16” barrel was no problem. After shooting mainly 14.5” & 16” AR’s for the last few years, it sounded very mild in comparison.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/GSR_Range01.jpg

3X scope, 100 yds from bench rest, 10 rounds, Fed. 168gr BTHP:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/GSR_Range02.jpg

Tokarev
01-22-11, 15:40
I took the rifle out to the range today. I fired about 80 rds through it. I don’t have a scout scope yet. So, I mounted an old Weaver 1-3X scope. After testing the accuracy, I removed the scope & but the rear iron sight back on & sighted it. Then I just test the rifle in various positions to get a feel for the rifle.

I am very happy with it so far. Recoil was much less than expected. Usually 80 rds through a bolt gun is enough for me. An old shoulder injury use limits how much I can fire before it becomes not enjoyable any more. After 80 rds through the GSR, I was fine & ready for more, but out of ammo.

The sound blast from the 16” barrel was no problem. After shooting mainly 14.5” & 16” AR’s for the few years, it sounded very mild in comparison.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/GSR_Range01.jpg

3X scope, 100 yds from bench rest, 10 rounds, Fed. 168gr BTHP:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/GSR_Range02.jpg

Thanks for the report. I like the looks of the small Weaver scope on there.

40Arpent
01-24-11, 10:33
Well, I got swallowed up in all the excitement and bought the GSR at the Houston gun show yesterday. This will be my first rifle to have set up in scout "mode," if I decide to go that route with it, and I think that it may play well as an "all around" ranch rifle for dispatching hogs, coyotes, etc......just like the Ruger Hawkeye Compact SS in 7mm-08 I bought just last week for that purpose. LOL

-Pete

40Arpent
01-29-11, 09:50
I took my GSR out yesterday and put 40 rounds through it using the iron sights. I was shooting at 100yds, so with my aged eyes, an accuracy report wouldnt mean anything to anyone here. Only 40 rds won't say much, but I didn't have any feed or ejection issues. That magazine is a real bitch to load once you get the first round inserted, though. Any tips on that? Seems like an anti-tilt follower would help a lot (are the AICS mags anti-tilt)?

To help me decide what type of optic setup I'll go with, I brought to the range with me a friend's customized Ruger M77 scout rifle. He had the barrel cut to 16", the barrel drilled/tapped, and mounted the Burris 2.75x scout scope. I really liked it, so I'm leaning in that direction. Can anyone tell me if any scope mfrs offer an illuminated magnified scout scope?

Thanks,
Pete

Jake'sDad
01-29-11, 10:00
Having used the Burris and Leupold Scout scopes, and then the 1-4 Trijicon, hands down, I'd use the Trijicon. I also just got a Vortex 1-4 PST but haven't been able to use it yet.

40Arpent
01-29-11, 14:14
So, you're saying that Trijicon has a scout scope, and the Vortex PST is also a scout scope?

cqbdriver
01-29-11, 18:22
That magazine is a real bitch to load once you get the first round inserted, though. Any tips on that?

After get 1st round in, simultaneously push down on the 1st round at the back of the mag while insert the next round in the front. I believe there is a photo showing it in the manual.

ETA: p.12 of manual

JHC
01-29-11, 21:59
So, you're saying that Trijicon has a scout scope, and the Vortex PST is also a scout scope?

Didn't look that way to me. He's stating his preference for the conventionally mounted low powered variable to the long eye relief scout scope. He's is quite correct to do so also.

40Arpent
01-29-11, 22:49
Didn't look that way to me. He's stating his preference for the conventionally mounted low powered variable to the long eye relief scout scope. He's is quite correct to do so also.

I'm not sure what you mean by "he is quite correct" but thanks for the clarification on the rest. I incorrectly assumed he was answering my question.

40Arpent
01-29-11, 22:52
After get 1st round in, simultaneously push down on the 1st round at the back of the mag while insert the next round in the front. I believe there is a photo showing it in the manual.

ETA: p.12 of manual

thanks, I need some practice. :)

Jake'sDad
01-30-11, 17:54
I incorrectly assumed he was answering my question.

Sorry. I was offering my experience using both the Leupold and Burris Scout Scopes over 20+ years and my preference for the Trijicon 1-4 over either. The illuminated reticule at 1X is faster on snap shooting for me, is usable at CQB ranges, and with a twist of the dial, semi capable as a 4X precision scope, something the Scout Scope doesn't excel at, at least for me. As someone else here said, if the Trijicon or something like it were available when Cooper was developing his Scout project, I believe he might have gone that route, instead of a fixed power intermediate eye relief scope.

But no, I'm not aware of anyone making a Scout Scope with an illuminated reticule.

cqbdriver
01-30-11, 19:18
I found a Burris handgun scope with illuminated reticule here:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/burris-2x-7x-electro-dot-handgun-scopes.html

However, I can't find this scope listed on the Burris website or any other vendor.

Also, there can be issues with running a handgun scope on a scout rifle. I don't experience with scout or handgun scopes, but from what I am reading there can be problems with eye relief & parallax.

May be some one with more experience can address the problem of running a pistol scope on a scout rifle.

40Arpent
01-30-11, 20:08
Jakesdad, thanks bud, I sincerely appreciate you sharing your insight and experiences. I realize using a true scout scope might not net me the optimal setup, but I'm kinda stuck on giving it a try even if I wind up ditching it later for a conventionally mounted scope.

Thanks,
Pete

40Arpent
01-30-11, 20:12
I found a Burris handgun scope with illuminated reticule...

May be some one with more experience can address the problem of running a pistol scope on a scout rifle.

I saw that same scope and am curious as well.

skipper49
01-30-11, 20:53
I mounted what I had on hand on my GSR, this weekend. It's a Leupold EER, 2X20, pistol scope. I didn't really want to commit to the Leupold Scout Scope 2 1/2 X 28 (only $300), until I decided how I was going to like the foward mount. I put it in Leupold quick detachable rings(lowest ones). I've played around with it the last couple of days, without actually firing it with the scope yet. I have to say, I'm very pleased with the clear, fast target acquisition, and may like this set-up a lot. Time will tell. I mounted it as far foward as I could and the eye relief is perfect.
One of the beauties of this rifle , from the factory, is the myriad of sighting options available to the end user.

Skip

cqbdriver
02-01-11, 17:33
I got the Ruger 5rd mag & Andy's Leather Ching Sling in. I really like the more compact 5rd mag for carrying around.

I mounted an Aimpoint H-1 & took the rifle out to my hunting land. I didn't do much carrying around because we had work to do. I did sight in the aimpoint & try out the sling.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/GSR_Sling.jpg

Jake'sDad
02-01-11, 18:33
I got the Ruger 5rd mag & Andy's Leather Ching Sling in. I really like the more compact 5rd mag for carrying around.

I mounted an Aimpoint H-1 & took the rifle out to my hunting land. I didn't do much carrying around because we had work to do. I did sight in the aimpoint & try out the sling.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/GSR_Sling.jpg

Looks good with the 5 in it. Definitely going to get a couple for mine.

What do you think you'll use for your final optic?

hickuleas
02-01-11, 19:20
I like the aimpoint micro on the scout just wish the irons were a little higher to co-witness with the micro. Has anyone put a Battlecomp BA on the Ruger Gunsite rifle yet?

cqbdriver
02-01-11, 20:09
What do you think you'll use for your final optic?

I am leaning towards the H-1 because of the environment that it will be used in. On my property, there is hardly a place that you can beyond 100 yds with majority of the hunting being 50 yds or less. I also want low-light capability. Some of the self-defense incidents that have occurred out there over the years, occurred at night.

I just ordered a LaRue low mount for the H-1. So, if it breaks, dies or fogs up, I can quickly remove it & go with the iron sights.

I am going to try a scout scope when I get the funds to see if it works for me.

Jake'sDad
02-01-11, 21:13
I am leaning towards the H-1 because of the environment that it will be used in. On my property, there is hardly a place that you can beyond 100 yds with majority of the hunting being 50 yds or less. I also want low-light capability. Some of the self-defense incidents that have occurred out there over the years, occurred at night.

I just ordered a LaRue low mount for the H-1. So, if it breaks, dies or fogs up, I can quickly remove it & go with the iron sights.

I am going to try a scout scope when I get the funds to see if it works for me.

Sounds good. If low light is important, I don't think you'll like the Scout Scope.

usmcvet
02-02-11, 07:39
I like the H1's set up. I think Col. Cooper would like the speed too.

Jake'sDad
02-02-11, 09:06
I like the H1's set up. I think Col. Cooper would like the speed too.

RDS's were around during Cooper's time. I think he would have thought a non magnified optic on a .308 would have been "curious".

okie john
02-02-11, 17:57
RDS's were around during Cooper's time. I think he would have thought a non magnified optic on a .308 would have been "curious".

I seem to remember him commenting that the various 1x scopes available at the time were good options for general-purpose rifles. For one thing, they made shooting with both eyes open a lot easier.


Okie John

Jake'sDad
02-02-11, 18:24
I seem to remember him commenting that the various 1x scopes available at the time were good options for general-purpose rifles. For one thing, they made shooting with both eyes open a lot easier.


Okie John

Well, I better give up trying to channel the Colonel, but I'd be surprised if he ever thought a non magnified optic was a good choice for a general purpose 7.62. That was the advantage of the Scout Scope, both eyes open with low power magnification. iirc, he did like the idea of a RDS on a carbine or "Thumper". I'll go through my Gunsite Gossips and see if I see anything.

old grunt
02-02-11, 19:52
[B]Like the Scout Rifle concept myself...for a couple reasons. 1: A practical rifle in a major caliber without the AR stigma(not that I care what anti-gun libs think). A bolt-action is a "vanilla" rifle that nobody bitches about in general.2:A weapon like this doesn't lend itself to too much after-market stuff. Good scope and sling and off you go. We all know that AR's,1911's and Harley's the average owner can't leave alone:D. We gotta play with them to the point that the wife has us sleeping on the couch!:haha:If it's a Ruger it has the added bonus of being built like a Swiss vault .

fourXfour
02-02-11, 20:03
I got the Ruger 5rd mag & Andy's Leather Ching Sling in. I really like the more compact 5rd mag for carrying around.

I mounted an Aimpoint H-1 & took the rifle out to my hunting land. I didn't do much carrying around because we had work to do. I did sight in the aimpoint & try out the sling.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/GSR_Sling.jpg

Great setup. This is what I plan on doing. I'm halfway there to saving up for it!!!!

cqbdriver
02-02-11, 20:22
I know that I already have Col. Cooper rolling in his grave because of the RDS. So, I thought that I work him up some more – I am not sure that I like the Ching Sling.

It definitely improves my shooting. However, the middle attachment is located right where I carry the rifle with one hand. There is another sling designed by Eric Ching called the Safari Ching Sling. It only uses the front & rear attachment points. The photos provided by Deadduck357 on the 1st page show the rifles with the Safari Ching Sling.

Deadduck357,
If you're still following this thread, any comments on the Safari Ching Sling?

Jake'sDad
02-02-11, 21:00
I know that I already have Col. Cooper rolling in his grave because of the RDS. So, I thought that I work him up some more – I am not sure that I like the Ching Sling.

It definitely improves my shooting. However, the middle attachment is located right where I carry the rifle with one hand.

I found the exact same thing to be true.

deadduck357
02-04-11, 19:29
Deadduck357,
If you're still following this thread, any comments on the Safari Ching Sling?

cqb, This was my first experience with it and to be honest when I first saw it I said "what the hell". But after Il Lings instructions on it and her walking us through its use in different positions I am sold. First off after fitting it to 'you' it is very comfortable. Second it doesn't wrap around your arm like a tourniquet so you can stay in position for extended periods without cutting off circulation, it cups around your elbow area(lower-upper arm). Third and what I liked most was it didn't want to pull the rifle to the left while tight, more of just a pull into my support hand. Now its no HeartBreaker but for general purpose it's far better than just a standard sling.

Also not sure about that 'other Ching sling', don't like that middle attachment. The Safari like you stated is only a two-point.

The ones we used at Gunsite were made by Galco I believe.