View Full Version : Why no rifle 2,000 round challenge sticky?
The handgun forum has a stickly with a 2K round challenge without cleaning or lube.
Why no similar thread (perhaps including added lube) for rifles and carbines?
I personally would like to see the weapons that can make it through with no malfs, and I think it would provide useful information.
I tried to start one in at another site, and the responses were sort of sad. I couldn't get any takers.
rattlesnake
12-30-10, 20:14
Why not do it Yourself, and doccument the results on here? I am confident with added lube it'll run. Without lube, now that would be interesting.
Not a terrible idea...
I've done it with a standard BCM 16" midlength, ran through dynamic carbine 1 without re-lubing it, no problems*. Started the class with it cleaned and lubed with TW-25b and it ran and ran. I didn't think to document it though at the time as prescribed in the 2k round challenge.
* - There was 1 problem, but it result of an issue with the hammer j spring from a CMT parts kit (hammer pin walked out as a result). BCM was still only making uppers at the time and it was on a homebuilt lower. The upper performed as you would expect from BCM.
Belmont31R
12-30-10, 20:55
I just did 2100+ through a 308 AR without cleaning. Did add lube, though.
This was at 1400 I think....
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/742740aa.jpg
I just did 2100+ through a 308 AR without cleaning. Did add lube, though.
That's awesome to hear. What platform and ammo?
Belmont31R
12-30-10, 21:02
That's awesome to hear. What platform and ammo?
KAC EMC and everything from Herters to Federal Match 175's.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/1cd27dc8.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/5a30c1de.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/b9f5be13.jpg
Im at 2400+ now after its first ever cleaning at 2100.
Closest Ive come to this test is running through a SDI class in 06' or 07' without relubing, I dont remember the round count but Id guess around 1k. CMMG upper on kit lower, had no issues throughout the class but found everything cooked dry inside the carrier afterwards and a gas ring mangled between the bolt and carrier. Was using CLP at the time.
Why not do it Yourself, and doccument the results on here? I am confident with added lube it'll run. Without lube, now that would be interesting.
I'm working on it now. I've shot +1K several times, but never documented anything, and always added lube.
I just thought it would be good for comparison purposes. Real life user reliability for multiple AR makes data is hard to come by.
Was using CLP at the time.
In my experience, CLP burns off quick. I'm suprised you made it without issue.
In my experience, CLP burns off quick. I'm suprised you made it without issue.
It may have helped the rifle was overgassed, it launched brass between 1-2 o'clock with an H buffer. I was shooting black hills blue box 55gr soft points for the class with a mix of usgi and hk mags. Over the last year or so Ive gone to SLiP2000 EWL for lube.
rattlesnake
12-31-10, 10:18
I'm working on it now. I've shot +1K several times, but never documented anything, and always added lube.
I just thought it would be good for comparison purposes. Real life user reliability for multiple AR makes data is hard to come by.
Oh I thought You were talking about a single rifle. Yes that data would be hard to come by, and take some time. I am interested if it is on a DI with a normal bc. No fail zeros or others. Also No relubing. I think it would be possible..
Cagemonkey
12-31-10, 10:24
KAC EMC and everything from Herters to Federal Match 175's.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/1cd27dc8.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/5a30c1de.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/b9f5be13.jpg
Im at 2400+ now after its first ever cleaning at 2100.
I like the dust groves on the BCG. Similar to the BC on a L1A1. I wish someone would offer a BCG with these to the market.
Ilove2shoot
12-31-10, 11:36
part of it is that a rifle is designed to handle more volume then a pistol. 2K rounds in a pistol without cleaning is a bigger deal then 2K rounds through a rifle....just my humble opinion.
Oh I thought You were talking about a single rifle. Yes that data would be hard to come by, and take some time. I am interested if it is on a DI with a normal bc. No fail zeros or others. Also No relubing. I think it would be possible..
I am. Single rifle/carbine for 2K. I think it'll be hard through a DI AR without adding lube, and will be as much of a test of the lube's ability as of the rifle's. That's why I was suggesting allowing added lube as required.
part of it is that a rifle is designed to handle more volume then a pistol. 2K rounds in a pistol without cleaning is a bigger deal then 2K rounds through a rifle....just my humble opinion.
While this may be true, there's an persistent myth that a modern AR with it's DI operating system cannot function without malfs. while dirty/fouled, and that DI is somehow inferior to a piston system that "doesn't dump carbon and hot gasses into the action".
I for one would love to see real end-user data that challenges this myth, as while maintaining and regularly cleaning a weapon you stake your life on is only common sense, that an AR (or other fighting weapon) can tolerate more abuse than this and still function reliably, particularly in fairly sterile enviornments like range use in the CONUS.
I think M4C would be a natural site for this, given the type of content and user base here.
I ran the 2k challenge with my Noveske N4 basic earlier this year. Total of 2340 rounds fired with no cleaning/no lube/no issues... results here (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=51936)
someone want to send me the 2k rounds I will do it with my rifle. ;)
In 2009 I attended 2 rifle classes and shot close to 2k rds between the two classes and some pre class practice / break-in and all I did was relube a few times. No cleaning.
BCM has the flithy 14 write up they send with all their uppers. And there is a PDF floating around somewhere of it.
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