S&B 1x8x24 vs Premier 1x8x24?

[payj]

With these two excellent choices now on the market, which one would you choose? Prices seem to be within about $100 of each other coming in around the $2600 mark give or take. The one neat thing about the SB is the fact it has a "CC" position for close quarters. That position brings the parallax down from 100m to 25m. I do not know if the premier has the ability to do that.

I feel these scopes would give the shooter a lot of flexibility 1x (1.1) for cqb and 8 for long distances. I feel this package, while more expensive may be better than an acog paired with a T1?

Thoughts, comments, opinions......?

[Sensei]

This is the head-to-head comparison that we are all waiting for, IMHO. The Leupold offering is a little too rich for most people's taste - not to mention that S&B and Premier tend to have better glass quality and construction in their other product lines.

Unfortunately, neither has hit the market in sufficient numbers to make a legit comparison. There were some rumors of peripheral distortions at the 1X setting with the S&B pre-production models, while other people wanted a brighter 1X dot on the Premier. It will be interesting to see if the extra time that both companies took to bring these to production fixed the bugs.

Finally, it will be interesting to see if the Premier will fit any of the QD mounts that are already in use. I'm a big fan of these mounts coupled with quality BUIs on my semi-auto rifles. I'm comfortable with anything made by Larue, Bobro, or ADM. However my review of the specs suggests that these are a no go.

[Belmont31R]

Im really wanting the SB 1-8X for my SR25 but as pointed out neither scope is out yet. The SB was supposed to be released 7 months ago.

[payj]

SWFA has both of them on their site. On ar15 an SWFA rep said they will be getting the premiers very soon and are taking orders. Tried to find the link real quick but couldn't. Either way hopefully these come out real soon.

Here is the link to the SB:

http://swfa.com/Schmidt-Bender-1-8x24-Short-Dot-PM-II-30mm-Riflescope-P47551.aspx

Premier:

http://swfa.com/Premier-Heritage-11-8x24-Tactical-34mm-Riflescope-P45504.aspx

[Gutshot John]

I don't have any direct experience with either of the two scopes but based solely on the Premier 3-15x50 I own - since the Premier has a 34mm tube vs. the 30mm S&B I'd probably go with the Premier.

The light transmission on the 34mm is awesome and will yield huge dividends in low-light/night shooting. It will also be significantly larger, so if size is a concern the S&B might be a better choice.

At a night shoot it handily beat out the Nightforce even though the other guy was a better shot.

It was amazing what you could see and being able to see the target is a huge advantage.

[Gutshot John]

In thinking about it the light transmission might be less of an advantage on a 24mm objective where any difference between the two might be more negligible.

I do think there will be an advantage in durability and adjustment range in the 34mm tube but that also might not be a big deal on a 1.1-8x scope.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I was waiting for the Leupold but after I saw that price tag its down to these to for me.

I guess I will have to wait and see what one guys like better they are both going to be top of the line either way!

[Sensei]

Rumors from Liberty Optics that the Premier version full release has been pushed back to Summer 2011.

Here is the quote from another site:


FYI. This is from Ted Milner from Armament Technology, from whom we order our Premier products from. We still kept our PO and look forward to bringing these to you.

Scott

"Good day,

Please be advised that there will be delay with the release of the Premier Reticles 1.1-8x V8 tactical scope to the Summer of 2011. The delay is a result of the decision to further refine the functionality and reliability of the product.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Kind regards,

Ted Milner"

Ted Milner Armament Technology Incorporated

[Belmont31R]

In thinking about it the light transmission might be less of an advantage on a 24mm objective where any difference between the two might be more negligible.

I do think there will be an advantage in durability and adjustment range in the 34mm tube but that also might not be a big deal on a 1.1-8x scope.



I don't really think the tube size has anything to do with light transmission. Thats calculated with the exit pupil, and then you subtract how much light gets through the lenses.


One thing with these straight tube scopes or near straight tube is at 8X the exit pupil is 3MM. At night you're not even going to get 50% light transmission not even counting the loss of light through the lenses themselves. I think the light transmission through SB glass is right around 90%. So at 8X at night you'd be getting 42% right off the bad because of the exit pupil, and then minus 4.2% through the glass (10% of 42). Thats 37.8% light transmission through the entire optic.


At night the average human eye opens about to about 6-7MM in a healthy average age adult. Slightly less for older people. During the day in full sun its around 3MM so these 1-8X optics would not suffer much at all during the day. Its at night that is going to suck.

[Nevermiss]

Tag for 2012 when we will actually have something to talk about.:D

[Gutshot John]

I don't really think the tube size has anything to do with light transmission. Thats calculated with the exit pupil, and then you subtract how much light gets through the lenses.

Right which is why I corrected it.

[Failure2Stop]

Rumors from Liberty Optics that the Premier version full release has been pushed back to Summer 2011.


I got the same type of email from Optics Planet.
Guess I'll be waiting till August.
Damnit.

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I got the same type of email from Ted at Armament Technology Incorporated. He said Premier pushed product release back to late summer.

[Luke_Y]

Interestingly the S&B has been on the .de website for some time now but has yet to make an appearance on the US website.

After reading a comment on the hide that the S&B was actually shipping in the UK I looked at a few UK shopping sites yesterday. I found the Zenith version listed, and was able to place it in my cart on several sites. Some gave no indication of stock, and a couple advised ships in 7-10 days. I didn’t bother to call any of them to investigate further.

Also noted was that all of the sites I found seemed to list the Zenith version. According to the .de website the Zenith is a second FP with a FlashDot FD0, FD2, or FD7. While the PM version has the first FP MilDot CC or P3, with a second FP ShortDot.

Who knows if the features of either would be the same when offered in the US...

Reading into the fact that all I was finding was the Zenith version, maybe that model is ready or nearly ready to ship, but the PM with the FFP ret/SFP dot and CC mode is proving to be more difficult and just isn't there yet... Pure speculation. :p

[Sensei]

We may be seeing why the Leupold version is so expensive. It sounds like they put a boat load of R&D to get the FFP/SFP transition working, and it is actually available in limited numbers if you've got $4k.

SB and Premier are back to the drawing board with no firm release date on the horizon. I just hope that they can keep the cost under $3k if/when they do release their models.