View Full Version : T1 vs. TR24 for fighting/defensive/training/gaming gun
I had a whole long post typed up, but I got lost in minutiae, so I'm gonna try to keep this simple.
For a defensive/training rifle that would also be used for some competitive practical shooting (I really like the idea of using the same rifle for training and competition to build skill.) Would you rather have a 6.7 pound rifle with a T1 or a 7.7 pound rifle with a TR24. I've got both optics, and I'm split about which one to use on this rifle.
Obviously defensive use would likely be at in-home distances. Training usually takes place from 0-200 yards. Competitions are usually from 0-300 yards. Targets range from full size silhouettes at close ranges to 8" plates at 300. From a practical standpoint small targets could be a tight headshot at 200 in a class, or having to ID a target that blends well with a background.
Here are the pros and cons as I see them:
T1
Pros: lightweight, small, fast up close, good accuracy on targets you can see with the naked eye, excellent low light performance
Cons: hard to ID targets at longer range, harder to make tight shots on small targets
TR24
Pros: easier to ID targets at longer range, easier to make tight shots, still very fast up close, surprisingly good performance in low light
Cons: heavy
My main concern is that I'd be taking on an extra 16 ounces with the TR24 for an optic that's really only significantly better in a small number of cases. I realize that the likely defensive use of the rifle would be up close, and the T1 would be an advantage there.
What are your guys' thoughts? I'll try to fill in any additional info if anyone has any questions.
I went from a EOTech to my TR24, even though it added weight, it opened up the possibilities of what I can do to it. I find the TR24 as good as a RDS for close range work, and it has a major advantage on shots on smaller targets past 100m.
I had thought about going back to a RDS, but after I shot my TR24 in a recent match, I wiped that idea out.
I love my TR24
Both great optics from great companies.
My preference for this type of set up is an Aimpoint with a flip out magnifier.
I've rarely, if ever, used the 2x or 3x settings on a TR24. The majority of use that I see is at 1x for fast acquisition of targets, or spinning the knob all the way to 4x for further distance targets.
This type of use is why I prefer the magnifier/RDO. Using a true 1x red dot for close targets is easier and faster for me. The TR24 is an excellent optic at 1x, but it will never be like looking through two piece of clear lens, ala the Aimpoint.
Furthermore, flipping the magnifier into place is quicker than turning that dial, even with a cat tail of some sort installed.
Lastly, I prefer a single dot as an aiming reference over the chevron on a stick. I like being able to see what's below my intended POA just as much as seeing what's above it. This can be especially helpful if you're shooting distances far enough where holdover may come into play.
The majority of my shooting in competition, training, and possible defensive use can be handled well with a 1x red dot. If I need to step out further than the capabilities of that, I like to just grab the magnifier and slap it into place.
Both are great optics and both will do the job. If forced to choose, I like the versatility of the magnifier/RDO.
Another option is to leave the t1 on the carbine as the default, and replace it with the tr24 for matches. Train with both. If using quick detach/attach mounts should be easy with min change of impact.
Mark
Thanks for the input so far guys. I actually have an Aimpoint magnifier too, so I'll hit the range tomorrow with the TR24 and T1/mag and give them a head-to-head comparison. I've used the magnifier in the past and not been a huge fan, but it'll be interesting to test it back to back with the TR24.
Gutshot John
01-01-11, 15:24
I think Tom spelled it out pretty effectively.
I've long since sold my accupoints in favor of aimpoints coupled with magnifier.
put some time with tr24 will give you fast aim. Only down side would be when you are in position where it's hard to bring up the scope to your eyes.
Also, make sure you try out the red dot. I had to return mine, because dot looked like thread ball that cat played to my eyes.
Alaskapopo
01-02-11, 07:14
Both great optics from great companies.
My preference for this type of set up is an Aimpoint with a flip out magnifier.
I've rarely, if ever, used the 2x or 3x settings on a TR24. The majority of use that I see is at 1x for fast acquisition of targets, or spinning the knob all the way to 4x for further distance targets.
This type of use is why I prefer the magnifier/RDO. Using a true 1x red dot for close targets is easier and faster for me. The TR24 is an excellent optic at 1x, but it will never be like looking through two piece of clear lens, ala the Aimpoint.
Furthermore, flipping the magnifier into place is quicker than turning that dial, even with a cat tail of some sort installed.
Lastly, I prefer a single dot as an aiming reference over the chevron on a stick. I like being able to see what's below my intended POA just as much as seeing what's above it. This can be especially helpful if you're shooting distances far enough where holdover may come into play.
The majority of my shooting in competition, training, and possible defensive use can be handled well with a 1x red dot. If I need to step out further than the capabilities of that, I like to just grab the magnifier and slap it into place.
Both are great optics and both will do the job. If forced to choose, I like the versatility of the magnifier/RDO.
I have used an M4 with a flip to side magnifier for a few years on my patrol rifle, I have also used a TA 33 with a off set red dot and now I am using a 1-6 Swarovski. The variable scope is faster and easier to change from one power to the next with a cat tail vs flipping the magnifier out of the way in my range drills. I also use the middle power ranges not just the lowest and the highest. The magnifier system was my least favorite. The red dot looks like a cluster of grapes to my eyes when magnified and was not nearly as precise. There is no easy way to dial in for long range shots you have to hold into space above the target and pray unless you have a Eotech with hold over marks. Eye relief and field of view sucks on magnifiers. Generally the Red Dot sight with a magnifier system is my least favorite solution. The variable power scope being my favorite and the Fixed Acog with a RDS in a off set mount being my second favorite. Red dot sights start to use their utility past about 200 yards. Yes you can hit further out with them given antiquate time but I can make 200 yard pistol shots given enough time as well. Variable power scopes kick the Red Dot with a Magnifier combo's butt as a general purpose optic. That is why they dominate three gun. Anyone who feels confident in their Aimpoint with a magnifier I invite you to use it in a good three gun match.
I have been able to run the TR 24 in many off axis positions without issue...
were i could not with my 3x flip.
I find my catail levered tr 24 pretty freaking fast
but i do find my Kydex paddled TR24 even faster(thanks to Raven for that) I have used the middle settings often but not as often as 1 or 4 but i have used them
I tried all sorts of awkward positions with the TR24 and I find that, as reported by a few of you guys, it's not a problem at all to use. At this point really the only thing keeping me from running the TR24 is the added weight. I have a class coming up in a couple of weeks and I think I'm going to try running the TR24 and see how it does and how I feel about it. In the end, 7.7 pounds isn't terribly heavy.
Gutshot John
01-02-11, 10:02
I've used magnifiers where the dot seem to "cluster" but then on others it doesn't seem to be an issue at all and in fact made the 2 moa dot on my M4S clearer.
In my experience the TR24 can "almost" be as fast as an RDS when shooting from standard shooting positions, when you have to get in improvised shooting positions (roll-over or brokeback prone, under/around barricades/vehicles) is when accuracy problems start to crop up with getting perfect eye alignment/centered behind the optic and having to constantly readjust your positioning to make sure you have proper alignment.
To be sure this is equally a problem when using a magnifier but inside of 200 yards I don't seem to have any problems using only an aimpoint to make good hits. I'm not sure I understand how a magnifier is a hindrance in off-axis shooting since I find the exact opposite to be true.
Ultimately however it is personal preference however the RDS tends to be a bit more forgiving in terms of positioning and more versatile in the broadest range of applications.
For competition however I can see why many prefer the TR24 but coupled with the huge reticle, significantly increased weight, need for proper positioning I think there is certainly a "cost" involved that needs to be spelled out.
I have used an M4 with a flip to side magnifier for a few years on my patrol rifle, I have also used a TA 33 with a off set red dot and now I am using a 1-6 Swarovski. The variable scope is faster and easier to change from one power to the next with a cat tail vs flipping the magnifier out of the way in my range drills. I also use the middle power ranges not just the lowest and the highest. The magnifier system was my least favorite. The red dot looks like a cluster of grapes to my eyes when magnified and was not nearly as precise. There is no easy way to dial in for long range shots you have to hold into space above the target and pray unless you have a Eotech with hold over marks. Eye relief and field of view sucks on magnifiers. Generally the Red Dot sight with a magnifier system is my least favorite solution. The variable power scope being my favorite and the Fixed Acog with a RDS in a off set mount being my second favorite. Red dot sights start to use their utility past about 200 yards. Yes you can hit further out with them given antiquate time but I can make 200 yard pistol shots given enough time as well. Variable power scopes kick the Red Dot with a Magnifier combo's butt as a general purpose optic. That is why they dominate three gun. Anyone who feels confident in their Aimpoint with a magnifier I invite you to use it in a good three gun match.
Variety is the spice of life, the variables out there today are good optics.
Perhaps it's because my eyes don't have an issue with the magnifier, but I just find I prefer that setup over a variable. Either will do the job well.
I tried all sorts of awkward positions with the TR24 and I find that, as reported by a few of you guys, it's not a problem at all to use. At this point really the only thing keeping me from running the TR24 is the added weight. I have a class coming up in a couple of weeks and I think I'm going to try running the TR24 and see how it does and how I feel about it. In the end, 7.7 pounds isn't terribly heavy.
The TR24 is actually one of the lighter 1-4s out there. I think if you practiced with it on a regular basis, you'd not even notice the weight after a short while.
I pretty much do as you are intending - use the one rifle for everything - 3 Gun, courses, general range work. I have the red triangle version of the TR24 - find it is plenty quick close up (use the triangle like a dot), yet is more than good enough out to 300 yards with a 200 yard zero (and longer, if you click up - and the turrets on this scope make it easy to do that, and then return to your original zero).
I find my catail levered tr 24 pretty freaking fast but i do find my Kydex paddled TR24 even faster(thanks to Raven for that)
Can you share?
If you've covered it before, I searched but didn't find it.
Thanks!
Last year my friends at Raven (Hi Tom) made me some Kydex power selectors
at my request they work awesome flatter more surface area to grab on to and work great sorry they were a Test only item as far as i know
as to off axis positions with the 3x how do you get close to the ground with a 3x on a flip mount hanging off the gun to the right side
I have zero issue getting good its at distance with my aimpoint the tr 24 has a purpose use for me on hunting, game guns and truck gun.
My 3x hasnt been used since i got my tr24 in 2007
the TR24 reticle at 4x at 50 yards from tip to base and side to side covers slightly over 2 inches
same at 1x at about 7 yards
Gutshot John
01-02-11, 16:53
as to off axis positions with the 3x how do you get close to the ground with a 3x on a flip mount hanging off the gun to the right side
Don't know that I've thought about a technique. I just do it. Maybe it's not an issue for lefty's but since it hangs off the left-hand side I'm not sure that's the issue. I do have significant problems getting a clear sight picture off-axis with magnified scopes. YMMV.
If I did have significant problems I'd just take the magnifier off (QD mount) and just use the aimpoint which is perfectly serviceable out to 200 yards albeit maybe not as precise without magnification. That said if I was shooting off-axis I'd keep the 24 at 1x anyways.
I have zero issue getting good its at distance with my aimpoint the tr 24 has a purpose use for me on hunting, game guns and truck gun.
Like I said I've owned both the TR-21/24 and I really wanted to like them, in fact if you dig up some of my early posts you'll find where I've said that I did. It has it's virtues, it's just not without a significant opportunity "cost". They obviously work for the intended purpose. The purpose of my statement was to point out that there are downsides to any choice and while some like them, others don't for quite valid reasons.
For the purposes you laid out (huunting/game/truck) I think it's a strong optic. For a fighting gun however the opportunity cost is too great and IMO the Aimpoint/Magnifier is simply more versatile.
My 3x hasnt been used since i got my tr24 in 2007
I didn't think the 24 was released until 2009? Do you mean the 21?
the TR24 reticle at 4x at 50 yards from tip to base and side to side covers slightly over 2 inches
same at 1x at about 7 yards
It's not really the triangle that's the problem. It's the fat post leading up to the triangle that gives me fits as it makes holdovers nearly impossible. If the 24 was only a triangle it would be a much improved optic. If they inverted the post/triangle as in a SUIT scope, it would be much improved. If they used a BDC reticle, it would be a much improved optic. If they made it in mil-dot it would be a much improved optic.
Last year my friends at Raven (Hi Tom) made me some Kydex power selectors
at my request they work awesome flatter more surface area to grab on to and work great sorry they were a Test only item as far as i know
Got any pics of it?
I had a pair of H1's but the 4MOA dot doesn't work with my eyes. I have a pair of M4's now and a TR24G. I also tried a magnifier with the H1's and it felt like looking through a straw and made the grape looking dot even worse for me.
I didn't think the 24 was released until 2009? Do you mean the 21?
I DID A TYPO I MENT 2008 HERE IS LINK TO THE PICS OF THE FIRST RMR'S AND TR24 IN PUBLIC FROM A CLASS I DID FOR TRIJICON AND SOME OTHERS
http://www.flickr.com/photos/resq47/sets/72157608574841606/
It's not really the triangle that's the problem. It's the fat post leading up to the triangle that gives me fits as it makes holdovers nearly impossible. If the 24 was only a triangle it would be a much improved optic. If they inverted the post/triangle as in a SUIT scope, it would be much improved. If they used a BDC reticle, it would be a much improved optic. If they made it in mil-dot it would be a much improved optic.
iTS A 1X4 NOT A SNIPER SCOPE..... I HAVE NO NEED FOR A BDC IN A 1X4 POWER LEARNING THE RETICLE, IM ABLE TO HIT OUT FARTHER THAN I KNEW POSSIBLE BY SIZING THE TRIANGLE..
=MIL DOTS IN A 1X4 ARE A WASTE OF TIME IF YOU ASK ME
NOW THAT SAID I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A SIMPLE FLOATING TRIANGLE OR DOT IN THE GLASS A LITTLE BIRD TOLD ME ABOUT SOME NEW THINGS COMING SOON
BUT I AGREE THEY EACH HAVE THERE PLACE THAT IS WHY I OWN THEM
Gutshot John
01-02-11, 20:23
I wasn't really asking for a BDC or a Mil-dot simply stating that they'd make a better reticle than the triangle with the huge obnoxious post.
Can I recommend decaf? or was your caps lock stuck?
Regarding the cat tails - I searched and couldn't find any pictures of them. I'll work on getting pics/more info up this week.
I've had the T1, M4s, and M4s, with magnifier. Sold off all of my T1's,
sold off a bunch of M4s's. I now have 2 M4s models with one 3x magnifier, and 4 Tr24 triangles. I like the M4s but love the TR24.
I find the fov and the glass on the Tr24 to be superior to the Aimpoint. I find its just as fast for cqb work, and its much better for longer range shooting.
By your description of the intended use, I would say the TR24 would fit your needs.
But like so many things, choose of an optic ,and what you like, and what works for you is a very personal choice.
Alaskapopo
01-03-11, 00:24
Regarding the cat tails - I searched and couldn't find any pictures of them. I'll work on getting pics/more info up this week.
Cat tails look at the rear of the scope on the power rings.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/Nightforce.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Optics/03.jpg
NOW THAT SAID I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A SIMPLE FLOATING TRIANGLE OR DOT IN THE GLASS A LITTLE BIRD TOLD ME ABOUT SOME NEW THINGS COMING SOON
I would really like to see the option of just a floating green Chevron or dot (No post). Cant wait to see what they release @ SHOT Show.
I'm really liking the TR24 option at this point. Do you guys that run cat tails find that they hang up on stuff when the rifle is slung? Based on pictures, it looks like the cat tail would be sticking straight off the left side of the rifle when the TR24 is at 1x, which would be the least ideal position for it to be when the rifle is slung.
I wasn't really asking for a BDC or a Mil-dot simply stating that they'd make a better reticle than the triangle with the huge obnoxious post.
Can I recommend decaf? or was your caps lock stuck?
hahha Stuck button
I might have a Pic of the one you guys did for me Tom..
I'm really liking the TR24 option at this point. Do you guys that run cat tails find that they hang up on stuff when the rifle is slung? Based on pictures, it looks like the cat tail would be sticking straight off the left side of the rifle when the TR24 is at 1x, which would be the least ideal position for it to be when the rifle is slung.
Ive thought about this a lot too. Came to the conclusion that the cats tails are more of a dedicated gaming accessory than anything else really. Not that I do any real soldiering these days, but from experience I know it is something that would get snagged on kit etc. I would be concerned about it getting snagged for instance, then yanked free, possibly resulting in damage to the scope; and at the very least, set on a power you didn't want it on.
I do have a quick'n'dirty cheap home made quickly removable cats tail in my match bag, but to be honest I generally don't put it on, as for 99% of my local match scenarios, you dial the scope at the start of the stage and then not touch it again until complete.
Cat tails look at the rear of the scope on the power rings.
Yep, I'm aware of that, we make our own. I was searching for a picture of the one we did for Steve about a year and a half ago, since some guys here have expressed interest in this thread and via PM.
Thanks,
Tom
I'm more and more realizing that the lack of BDC on the TR24's isn't the restriction I thought originally. If I can ring a set of 6" gongs at 230m easily with it, and identify targets, I'm not sure what else I need to do with that optic on a defensive carbine
Alaskapopo
01-03-11, 22:12
What does BDC stand for?
Bullet Drop Compensator.
Pat
againstthagrane
01-04-11, 01:39
I have been able to run the TR 24 in many off axis positions without issue...
were i could not with my 3x flip.
I find my catail levered tr 24 pretty freaking fast
but i do find my Kydex paddled TR24 even faster(thanks to Raven for that) I have used the middle settings often but not as often as 1 or 4 but i have used them
what is this Kydex paddle you speak of?
Bullet Drop Compensator.
Pat
Something like mil dots?
Something like mil dots?
Kind of. A BDC is generally intended for a specific load from a specific barrel. It has demarcations for certain distances so you know where to hold over. If you are shooting a different bullet at a different velocity or even in different environmental conditions the BDC will likely be off. How much it will be off is something that you have to go out and test for yourself, it could be close enough not to matter or it could be so far off as to be meaningless.
On the other hand, mil dots aren't calibrated for a specific load.
An example of a BDC:
http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/ACOGReticle.243183548_std.jpg
Gutshot John
01-04-11, 09:06
Something like mil dots?
No not at all. Do not confuse the two.
Mil-dots are used for general ranging (using a relatively simple formula) and applicable across a wide variety of bullets. You still have to figure out your dope at specific ranges and dial it in.
A BDC is kind of like built-in dope.
It is specific to one type of cartridge (5.56 62gr). You zero the main aimpoint for the given range and then the drops for the secondary aiming points correspond to a given range.
See the ACOG reticles for TA-33. Ranging is much simpler than on a mil-dot though arguably not as precise and not as versatile unless you can see the BGs shoulders. The chevron is zeroed a 100 meters and then the width of the stadia lines represent an average man's shoulder width at a given range, you match up the line to get your range and then use the stadia line as a crosshair.
Kind of. A BDC is generally intended for a specific load from a specific barrel. It has demarcations for certain distances so you know where to hold over. If you are shooting a different bullet at a different velocity or even in different environmental conditions the BDC will likely be off. How much it will be off is something that you have to go out and test for yourself, it could be close enough not to matter or it could be so far off as to be meaningless.
On the other hand, mil dots aren't calibrated for a specific load.
An example of a BDC:
http://pro-patria.us/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/ACOGReticle.243183548_std.jpg
Thanks. I've never had an ACOG. I looked through a buddies today. I liked it but the eye relief was very restrictive. I had to get my nose on the CH.
I would like to see the above ACOG reticle adapted to the TR24 but with only the BDC lines out to 400m. Basically the chevron with an upside down "T" below it for ranging 300 & 400m.
Thanks. I've never had an ACOG. I looked through a buddies today. I liked it but the eye relief was very restrictive. I had to get my nose on the CH.
Not all ACOGs are like that, some have better eye relief. here's a good chart, and includes eye relief: http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_ACOG_Comparison_and_FAQ_s/386.htm
Gutshot John
01-04-11, 19:37
ACOG or otherwise a nose on the charging handle is entirely normal/acceptable. 1.5-2" eye relief is normal.
ACOG or otherwise a nose on the charging handle is entirely normal/acceptable. 1.5-2" eye relief is normal.
I agree. That is how I learned to shoot. The M3 Aimpoint and TR24 I've been using are different and the M3 is very flexible .
Yep, I'm aware of that, we make our own. I was searching for a picture of the one we did for Steve about a year and a half ago, since some guys here have expressed interest in this thread and via PM.
Thanks,
Tom
Any chance of a run of them for M4C guys?
Yep, I sort of touched on that earlier in this thread:
Regarding the cat tails - I searched and couldn't find any pictures of them. I'll work on getting pics/more info up this week.
We never 'stopped' making them. We have all sorts of gadgets we do upon customer request. There's a few of them floating out there.
I received some interest from this thread and have a few submitted for build. When we have one ready I'll take pics and upload them. The production guys first priority are standard orders in the pipeline, so it may not be immediate. I'll reply back to this thread (and our subforum) when I have pics of the current version. Thanks for your interest.
Jay Cunningham
01-10-11, 00:14
We have all sorts of gadgets we do upon customer request. There's a few of them floating out there.
I still have the SF G2 "arming" switch...
Yep, I sort of touched on that earlier in this thread:
We never 'stopped' making them. We have all sorts of gadgets we do upon customer request. There's a few of them floating out there.
I received some interest from this thread and have a few submitted for build. When we have one ready I'll take pics and upload them. The production guys first priority are standard orders in the pipeline, so it may not be immediate. I'll reply back to this thread (and our subforum) when I have pics of the current version. Thanks for your interest.
Cool!
Thanks Tom.
I still have the SF G2 "arming" switch...
Yep, there's a few of those kicking around as well. I have one on my rifle, I'll take a few pics of that too.
Tom,
What's up Brother! I would also be interested in one of those "cattails" for my TR24G.
jasonhgross
01-10-11, 08:28
For your reference, on a BCM Mid-length a TR24 in Larue mount, sopmod stock, no light, no VFG, and TD Grip was 8.3 pounds.
The TR24 and Larue mount were about 21.5 ounces.
For me, that was too much weight for not much of an advantage given my requirements. For you, the weight may be worth it.
I had a TR24 in that 1.93 Larue mount. I was so excited when I was putting it on and then I slung the rifle and it felt like a lead weight on my sling. I got a T1 a few days later. It's just too much weight for what I use my rifle for. I understand the appeal, but it's just too heavy for me.
Unless humping the optic and another 100 pound ruck sack through the mountains of somethingiraqstan it really isnt an issue for killing cardboardstans in classes and matches,
I might have to do a few more gunups and hit the gym a bit more but its worth it to me
Unless humping the optic and another 100 pound ruck sack through the mountains of somethingiraqstan it really isnt an issue for killing cardboardstans in classes and matches,
I might have to do a few more gunups and hit the gym a bit more but its worth it to me
As long as the gun is compensated properly, and your posture is good, a lighter gun would be quicker transitioning from target to target, but not much worse re-acquiring the target after a shot.. Yes, having more muscle mass will make you quicker, but 7lbs of gun will always have more inertia than 8.5 lbs.
Unless humping the optic and another 100 pound ruck sack through the mountains of somethingiraqstan it really isnt an issue for killing cardboardstans in classes and matches,
I might have to do a few more gunups and hit the gym a bit more but its worth it to me
Agree:)
Hayseed_40
01-11-11, 11:48
Unless humping the optic and another 100 pound ruck sack through the mountains of somethingiraqstan it really isnt an issue for killing cardboardstans in classes and matches,
I might have to do a few more gunups and hit the gym a bit more but its worth it to me
Agreed. Not giving up any advantage over a few onces. I could take off my watch or go to the bathroom before shooting.
Any chance of a run of them for M4C guys?
yes, I'd be down for that...
For your reference, on a BCM Mid-length a TR24 in Larue mount, sopmod stock, no light, no VFG, and TD Grip was 8.3 pounds.
The TR24 and Larue mount were about 21.5 ounces.
For me, that was too much weight for not much of an advantage given my requirements. For you, the weight may be worth it.
My rifle with BUIS, light, IMOD stock, TRX Extreme rail, etc... is 7.7 pounds with the TR24. I'm not really concerned about the 7.7 pound weight, I was more concerned about whether I'd really see a benefit from the 1-4 optic. As I've been shooting with it I'm really liking it and I may well find that the extra pound doesn't bother me too much. I've got a class in a couple of weeks where I'm going to try and run the TR24 and see what I think of it afterwards. A major benefit to me in this is that my rifle was very light to begin with, so the addition of the TR24 really didn't push the rifle into the "really heavy" category.
bullitt5172
01-12-11, 14:53
As long as the gun is compensated properly, and your posture is good, a lighter gun would be quicker transitioning from target to target, but not much worse re-acquiring the target after a shot.. Yes, having more muscle mass will make you quicker, but 7lbs of gun will always have more inertia than 8.5 lbs.
Uh, I think Steve would prove your theory is incorrect. He is as fast (maybe faster) with a TR24 as he is with a T1. Many of us here have personally seen him in action...he's a beast.
He aint' that fast... He still can't beat me on the 1-5.
Love ya big guy... :D
Uh, I think Steve would prove your theory is incorrect. He is as fast (maybe faster) with a TR24 as he is with a T1. Many of us here have personally seen him in action...he's a beast.
After getting used to the TR24, I am just as fast as with my ML3,
proved it at one of Steve's classes....nowheres near as fast as Steve
though....although did tie him on a contact drill ..4rds.. .91sec..(He put 10 rds into about an inch in 2 secs at 7yds)..for me
(and my older eyes) the extra weight is well worth it.
I really have to thank Steve for turning me onto the Triji, and Bullit5172 for selling me that rifle :)
Toms probably still faster...:)
He aint' that fast... He still can't beat me on the 1-5.
Love ya big guy... :D
Ha dont mistake good luck for good skills
though i would rather be lucky than good
here is a shot of the paddle they made me.....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/frozenrat/5339321373/in/set-72157625784467566/
bullitt5172
01-12-11, 20:02
After getting used to the TR24, I am just as fast as with my ML3,
proved it at one of Steve's classes....nowheres near as fast as Steve
though....although did tie him on a contact drill ..4rds.. .91sec..(He put 10 rds into about an inch in 2 secs at 7yds)..for me
(and my older eyes) the extra weight is well worth it.
I really have to thank Steve for turning me onto the Triji, and Bullit5172 for selling me that rifle :)
Toms probably still faster...:)
:thank_you2:
bullitt5172
01-12-11, 20:05
He aint' that fast... He still can't beat me on the 1-5.
Love ya big guy... :D
AK's don't count :haha:
here is a shot of the paddle they made me.....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/frozenrat/5339321373/in/set-72157625784467566/
Same pic, made hot:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5339321373_422d294e71_z.jpg
looks good, got any a little closer up?
I don't have a T1, but I'd think the field of view makes a big difference.. I do love my TR24r.
Go to the above link open it and look at the larger image
Same pic, made hot:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5165/5339321373_422d294e71_z.jpg
I like the look of that - and because it is low profile around the ring without any sticking out screws at the bottom it looks like it would work with the extended Bobro mounts.
If you decided to do a production run at a reasonable price point, I'd be interested. I personally think there would probably be a good market for lower cost polymer type Cats Tails....the current aluminum offerings out there are nice'n'all, but I'm personally not interested in paying $70 or so for an aluminum ring, and I'm sure a lot of other people think similarly.
Realize this thread is about TR24 vs T1, but since the "Paddle" is being discussed, any chance of Raven making them for other optics, such as
Vortex PST 1X4? Please?
Thanks,
Mark
Mark,
We'd need the optic. To begin offering for various optics, you'd need to send the scope in.
We will have a production run of the TR24 cat-tails soon. I am typing from a hotel in Indy at the moment, and I'm flying to SHOT on Sunday. When I get back, I'll get the ball rolling.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming. :)
Exiledviking
01-14-11, 00:17
We will have a production run of the TR24 cat-tails soon. :)
Can you give us an idea on price? I'm very interested.
Information will be posted in our subforum as soon as it's available.
bankfraudguy
01-14-11, 08:14
I wear glasses. My perscription is not that strong, and I can see OK without them, usually forgetting them many days. BUt without my specs, any aimpoint or eotech looks like a fuzzy ball of red yarn. For this reason, I generally prefer glass as I can then see a clear picture when shooting.
All of my hunting rifles have a scope on them. And the one with an accupoint is by far my fav.
I wear glasses. My perscription is not that strong, and I can see OK without them, usually forgetting them many days. BUt without my specs, any aimpoint or eotech looks like a fuzzy ball of red yarn. For this reason, I generally prefer glass as I can then see a clear picture when shooting.
All of my hunting rifles have a scope on them. And the one with an accupoint is by far my fav.
I bought a Tr24g for the same reason. I have a pair or glasses for my astigmatism and keep a set at work by my PC and one at home. The 2moa dot is a lot better for my eyes. The 4moa is a train wreck for me the TR24 rocks.
For me the 2 MOA aimpoint dot looked like a bean. The 4 MOA would be round, but only if I focused past it and allowed my eyes to relax.
The TR24 was always perfect. I don't know what anyone can give up on it, but are they looking at different reticles or something else entirely for the Accupoint line?
By far and away the best optic I've found. The price is amazing for what you get. I had a TR24G, but if I had to do it again I would try for a TR24R.
The S&B is bad ass, but significantly more expensive.
For me the 2 MOA aimpoint dot looked like a bean. The 4 MOA would be round, but only if I focused past it and allowed my eyes to relax.
The TR24 was always perfect. I don't know what anyone can give up on it, but are they looking at different reticles or something else entirely for the Accupoint line?
By far and away the best optic I've found. The price is amazing for what you get. I had a TR24G, but if I had to do it again I would try for a TR24R.
The S&B is bad ass, but significantly more expensive.
most red dots work by reflecting a light off of an angled/shaped lens. the dot is on the side or bottom of the body somewhere.
the accupoint, like all scopes, has something in the path - whether it is etched glass, a stick with a red tip, or a piece of polycarbonate with a silkscreened reticle, there is something physically there, not reflected on to there, in the path of your eye.
I do have a quick'n'dirty cheap home made quickly removable cats tail in my match bag...
Could you please explain how you made these?
I'm looking to make a cat tail, and I can't figure out how to do this.
Could you please explain how you made these?
I'm looking to make a cat tail, and I can't figure out how to do this.
Sure...can't take the credit for it at all though....I was just following a suggestion found over on Brian Eno's forum (link below). It is basically just a deep sea fishing rod coaster which you affix and snip - 2 minute job and its done. For my Bobro mount, I had to smooth the coaster down a bit with a dremel - for Larue/ADM mounts, you wouldn't have even have to worry about that.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=110503&st=0&p=1256217&hl=fishing%20coaster&fromsearch=1&#entry1256217
One point to note, the rod coasters seem expensive over here in the US (well, $20 expensive...). As luck would have it, I latched onto the idea just before my annual 2 week sojourn back to the UK, where they are much cheaper - I was able to order some for $6 off ebay to my parents house and then brought them back here. Sounds like the company I got them from will ship direct to the US, but not sure how much it'd be for shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Breakaway-Fishing-Rod-Coasters-Pack-2-/400203136047?pt=UK_SportingGoods_FishingAcces_RL&hash=item5d2df73c2f
ANother possibility that might work would be a bit of pipe clamp from Lowes or somewhere - similar principal and could be done with a bit of modification.
Sure...can't take the credit for it at all though....I was just following a suggestion found over on Brian Eno's forum (link below). It is basically just a deep sea fishing rod coaster which you affix and snip - 2 minute job and its done...
One point to note, the rod coasters seem expensive over here in the US (well, $20 expensive...). As luck would have it, I latched onto the idea just before my annual 2 week sojourn back to the UK...
ANother possibility that might work would be a bit of pipe clamp from Lowes or somewhere - similar principal and could be done with a bit of modification.
Fabulous! I'm headed to Germany in a couple weeks so this is timely.
The idea of using a hose clamp is really ingenious, too...
Thank you for the nudges in the right direction.
EDIT: I just found a "pipe clamp," and it's basically the same thing as a "scope lever." Now if I can find on that'll fit my scope...
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