View Full Version : Upgrade to H or H2 buffer?
GotBoost2JZ
01-01-11, 19:31
I'm wanting to upgrade from my standard carbine buffer to a heavy. I figured an H would be fine then I saw the H2. I have plans of going SBR in the coming months and I feel like I read somewhere on here that a heavier buffer is a good choice. Anyway, right now I'm totting a 16" and I'll be going down to an 11.5. Thanks
You should get an H, an H2, and an H3, and experiment. Your rifle will likely handle an H buffer no problem. If it's a carbine gas system, maybe an H2 (depending on ammo). Your 11.5 might work great with an H3, but the only way to know is try it.
Robb Jensen
01-01-11, 20:42
If upgrading I'd change the receiver extension to a VLTOR A5 and get the A5 5oz buffer. It'll work well with 16" uppers or SBR uppers.
Anyone want to guess how many times we have discussed buffers and the various options? Anyone?
Whootsinator
01-01-11, 22:13
Anyone want to guess how many times we have discussed buffers and the various options? Anyone?
Do you have an actual number? I'd like to see one.
I'm going to guess 60, give or take 5.
I'll guess 32.
But...why does it matter?
Because we get people who show up and we keep seeing the same questions being asked over and over again. If people would use the SEARCH function and spend a little time looking around all these anwswers would be there.
I'll guess 32.
But...why does it matter?
Because we get people who show up and we keep seeing the same questions being asked over and over again. If people would use the SEARCH function and spend a little time looking around all these anwswers would be there.
I understand that...and I see that it's an ongoing significant source of frustration and irritation for many of this site's moderators. I'm not clear on why it's perceived as such a problem.
I understand that...and I see that it's an ongoing significant source of frustration and irritation for many of this site's moderators. I'm not clear on why it's perceived as such a problem.
I think it has something to do with that "Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish" thing. JMHO
Because we get people who show up and we keep seeing the same questions being asked over and over again. If people would use the SEARCH function and spend a little time looking around all these anwswers would be there.
There was a teeny tiny barrier to search before the Google search was added to the menu bar. Now that it's there: I'd say there's no excuse. Anyone can do a quality search with minimal effort now.
SIGFever, that's the problem here, and with any forum that has more information than just pictures of people getting whacked in the balls.
I use the search function all the time. Results vary from great to so many hits you can't check them all in an evening.
Maybe there should be a sticky on using Google search with the parameters for limiting the search to M4Carbine.net. I remember there is one but don't remember what it is.
While you are at it, the site badly needs a glossary of abbreviations used here. I'm new to the site (and AR-15s) and have a bookmark for TOS's glossary, but many used here aren't there.
How about it guy's; you know what you are talking about, but the new guys don't.
How many questions have not already been asked? Newcomers look for a place to come for answers and discussions. If Google is the answer, what is the point of the web site?
Maybe all we need is an Encyclopedia of AR related questions and answers and no discussion except what's new from Noveske or BCM, maybe the latest "tactical stance" from Magpul.
New guys have questions and come here for answers.
I use the search function all the time. Results vary from great to so many hits you can't check them all in an evening.
Maybe there should be a sticky on using Google search with the parameters for limiting the search to M4Carbine.net. I remember there is one but don't remember what it is.
I'm guessing you're "doing it wrong."
See attachment.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=7012&d=1293988663
SIGFever, that's the problem here, and with any forum that has more information than just pictures of people getting whacked in the balls.
So...people new to the AR platform come here and ask a question without searching. I guess my question is, why is that a problem? Is it a bandwidth issue? Is it because everyone feels obligated to respond to every question posted here? Is it concern over wasting moderators' time? Too much clutter? Too many posts to sort through with each new visit?
Isn't it easier to just ignore the posts one doesn't want to deal with?
So...people new to the AR platform come here and ask a question without searching. I guess my question is, why is that a problem? Is it a bandwidth issue?
Not bandwidth, but CPU. Every time a user clicks "New Posts" it runs a CPU intensive search of the database to display the most recently updated threads. The more chaff, the longer the search. Multiply the contribution cost of chaff threads to the total search time by the frequency of "New Posts" searches and you'll see an actual impact on CPU requirements. CPU in the web hosting world could mean the difference between leasing a shared virtual server and a dedicated server which translates into higher operating expenses.
Is it concern over wasting moderators' time? Too much clutter? Too many posts to sort through with each new visit?
In short: Yes.
Isn't it easier to just ignore the posts one doesn't want to deal with?
I could do that, but what happens is I see a thread in AR Technical Discussion that Reads: "BCG Issue, Please help" and I expect to see an actual problem that needs help. Instead, what I find when I get there is: "Where can I buy a BCM BCG? Do you think it will look good on my rifle?"
You can't always pick out that kind of thing by the title.
It also comes down to hand holding vs. someone doing anything to help themselves. It's fine to ask questions, but please do a quick search and attempt to help yourself before asking for it on a platter. People don't mind helping if they know you tried to help yourself before asking.
H3 on a 14.5" middy here...
A couple of goods points here. Teach a Man to Fish and the CPU issue explained.
GotBoost2JZ
01-02-11, 16:55
Delete the post then. Maybe others do, but I don't have all day to waste on this website. After spending about an hour or so doing research on numerous topics (including this one) I got tired of looking and decided to ask this one question. Most questions I answered myself. I'm not new to online forums. I feel like the only things mods (from any site) say anymore is "search". I understand searching. Just like I would hope everyone else understands that a post created a year ago about this topic isn't going to show up anywhere near the top of the list and, like I said, I don't have a ton of time to delve into countless pages.
Remove the thread please. I got my answer. Thanks everyone :)
OK. I searched for "which buffer" and the site told me it wouldn't use "which" as a search term and gave me everything with buffer in it. I then tried "which buffer for carbine" and got a blank page. Also tried the last just searching tech discussion. Same result. Searched for "buffer for midlength " and got 77 hits. Do you see how a question could be repeated again and again.
All anyone needs is for someone who knows to cite the correct search term or URL to the thread. With a few sample working search phrases maybe we could learn the tricks. By the way, I do pretty good with Google normally
A lot of the trouble, I think, is that thread titles aren't given enough thought and are often meaningless or non-descriptive. A lot of threads get high jacked, but contain useful information on the off topic. (Like this one.)
I don't see any answer other than to just grin and bear it.
GotBoost2JZ
01-02-11, 17:46
OK. I searched for "which buffer" and the site told me it wouldn't use "which" as a search term and gave me everything with buffer in it. I then tried "which buffer for carbine" and got a blank page. Also tried the last just searching tech discussion. Same result. Searched for "buffer for midlength " and got 77 hits. Do you see how a question could be repeated again and again.
All anyone needs is for someone who knows to cite the correct search term or URL to the thread. With a few sample working search phrases maybe we could learn the tricks. By the way, I do pretty good with Google normally
A lot of the trouble, I think, is that thread titles aren't given enough thought and are often meaningless or non-descriptive. A lot of threads get high jacked, but contain useful information on the off topic. (Like this one.)
I don't see any answer other than to just grin and bear it.
My thoughts. It'd be easier to just answer the question. You waste more time telling people to search than just saying "h" or "h2" ext. Plus, the next time someone searches for this topic, this will come up with CLEAR answers instead of numerous useless threads with the question and no good answers. My $0.02
I have better luck with a regular Google search. Here is what I just typed in:
which buffer for sbr m4carbine
http://www.google.com/m/search?q=which+buffer+for+sbr+m4carbine&mshr=4&popt=1&pbx=1&aq=&oq=which+buffer+for+sbr+m4carbine&aqi=&fkt=3181&fsdt=18474&csll=&action=<oken=f561d1c
The top six returns were for this site with one post from mid December. I add m4carbine in there and this sites usually has answers. There are truly some idiots in other sites who spout off info that is totally bogus. Some of the stuff on TOS is scary wrong g and it is stickied as Gospel. This place is such a relief . I am glad I came here first!
H3 on a 14.5" middy here...
I think the best "which" buffer thread happened in the review of the BCM 14.5 middy thread. This is where I learned all about it for what I ordered.
I'm a moderator on another forum and even though we receive multiple questions on practically the same question we have decided, as a group of moderators, to give a general answer to the question and then reference the Search function for more detailed answers. I understand this forum is different because of the content and intent of it and really do appreciate the seriousness of the forum. Compared to all of the Moderators, Industry Professionals, SME's and many of the Senior Members I have nowhere near the knowledge or experience in this platform. There are times though that you get the feeling if you ask an even remotely dumb question you going to get your ass chewed.
OK enough of that.
To the OP there is a post that is fairly long and detailed about the various buffers. There are even videos showing the performance of those buffers. I believe it is in this section. It is a great discussion and display of the buffers. I ended up going with a H2 buffer for my 14.5 middy. The main reason for that is the with an H3 buffer ther seemed to be the possibility of poor functioning of failures to function depending upon the type of ammunition you were using. Basically giving myself a bit of a cushion when it comes to choosing whatever type of ammunition I wanted to shoot. Search for that thread and read all of it. It's more than worth the time it will take to read and see the videos.
I found this post in less than a minute using the Google search that I posted.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=115159&postcount=10
I got this from Gene Swanson in a email.
"I run H buffers in all of our rifles. From 10.5 up to the 16 inch. I also run a lot of full auto so the H buffer slows things down a bit."
Gene Swanson
Technical Specialist
Lewis Machine and Tool Co.
1305 W 11th Street
Milan, IL 61264
PH:309-787-7151
FX: 309-787-7193
SwansonG@lewismachine.net
I have a 14.5" carbine that had the carbine buffer in it. It ran fine. Thought about going either H or H2 in it and decided to go the H2 route from some of the reading I did. It runs just like the carbine buffer, for me I can not really tell a difference. I have run quite a bit of PMC Bronze 55 gr through it.
Let me explain the whole buffer thing. There is no best answer or correct answer. For one thing the OP didn't specify what make and model AR he has. This can make a difference due to gas port size.
In addition we don't know what ammo he is using. That will make a difference as well. My SBR which is an 11.5" will function with an H3 100%, but I also run it suppressed most of the time.
So by researching the question and then explaining to us what configuration he has, we can better make a recommendation. Chances are that an H2 will be just fine. However, as Hmac stated in his post, you actually need to test it out and see. By researching the answer and other responses you can save money by not going through multiple type of buffers as well as the aggravation when the OP comes back and reports that his carbine is now malfunctioning.
swampfox1975
01-03-11, 17:37
I use the search function quite a bit, actually almost all of the time. But when I find a void or unclear area I ask a question. I think it takes more bandwith, cpu memory, whatever to slap someone on the nose. IF YOU HAVE BEEN HERE LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW THE ANSWER OR THE DIRECTION TO THE ANSWER then just guide the person in the direction. Throw in " I found this using "buffer weight" in the site search". How hard is that. Your potential sponsors lie in wait and they sit here reading post and usually find validity in donating by getting their answers. I have been online for nearly twenty years now and seen the effects of jerk posting destroy two great websites that were there to help people understand. If this is another hotrod, drag race, neighbor hood snob, better than you internet posterboard then you see the flock fall away and another site will rise where this one fails.
GotBoost2JZ
01-03-11, 21:53
Let me explain the whole buffer thing. There is no best answer or correct answer. For one thing the OP didn't specify what make and model AR he has. This can make a difference due to gas port size.
In addition we don't know what ammo he is using. That will make a difference as well. My SBR which is an 11.5" will function with an H3 100%, but I also run it suppressed most of the time.
So by researching the question and then explaining to us what configuration he has, we can better make a recommendation. Chances are that an H2 will be just fine. However, as Hmac stated in his post, you actually need to test it out and see. By researching the answer and other responses you can save money by not going through multiple type of buffers as well as the aggravation when the OP comes back and reports that his carbine is now malfunctioning.
For the range I shoot anything cheap but no steel case. Mostly American Eagle xm193 or federal value pack .223 since that's what
I'm stockpiled on and I always find them cheap. For defense I use both Hornady 60gr TAP (.223) and 75gr TAP (5.56) and I've been meaning to try out some black hills mk 262. I will not be suppressing my rifle though.
The rifle is a 16" Bushmaster with a bravo company bolt/bcg. Barrel will be changed to a BCM as well.
40calfragout
01-03-11, 23:48
i have nothing but good to say about the spikes tactical st-t2 buffer i have one on my mrp 16 inch barrel and another in a 18 inch noveske i used to have a 14.5 cmmg and it worked find on that one to. the recoil is minimal to say the least
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=575Q0O41u5s
To the OP, here is a You Tube video "AR15 buffer test".
GotBoost2JZ
01-04-11, 14:15
^ good find.
I ended up watching some more of those. Shortest upper I saw was a 14.5 and the H2 seemed to have zero bounce. I think I'll try an H2 out first.
Thanks all
Quiet-Matt
01-04-11, 18:56
If you have a punch and a hammer, here's what you do. You have a carbine buffer with 3 steel weights. Buy a H3 with 3 tungsten weights. Take them both apart and mix them to whatever weight you want. Cheaper than buying 3 more buffers with the end result being the same. That wasn't so hard.
If you have a punch and a hammer, here's what you do. You have a carbine buffer with 3 steel weights. Buy a H3 with 3 tungsten weights. Take them both apart and mix them to whatever weight you want. Cheaper than buying 3 more buffers with the end result being the same. That wasn't so hard.
So is H two steel and one tungsten. H2 1 steel 2 tungsten and 3 tungsten for an H3?
Quiet-Matt
01-04-11, 19:29
Yep
Standard = 3 steel
H = 2 steel, 1 tungsten
H2 = 1 steel, 2 tungsten
H3 = 3 tungsten
Yep
Standard = 3 steel
H = 2 steel, 1 tungsten
H2 = 1 steel, 2 tungsten
H3 = 3 tungsten
The roll pin in a buffer isn't that awful to punch out. I wish you could get the weights a la carte. It'd be cheaper than a whole new buffer for each new buffer experiment.
Quiet-Matt
01-04-11, 21:22
Seems like I once read that you could get the tungsten weights off pinewood derby sites. I don't know if thats true.
They will not all necessarily operate.
I use the heaviest one that cycles everything reliably I want to shoot.
Why not try the CWS from Tubb
http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/AR_15_PRODUCTS-AR_15_Carrier_Weight_System.html
Anyone want to guess how many times we have discussed buffers and the various options? Anyone?
12, no wait 13.
12, no wait 13.
:no: I searched it and the search engine maxed out at 500 times :haha:
:thank_you2:
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