View Full Version : Flying with manufactures original case?
Going to be flying CONUS with my M&P 9c. I have reviewed the TSA and the carrier requirements and my interpetation is I will be okay with using the original hard case. I plan on stuffing the ammo in the case also, and putting all of this into a locking hard side. The M&P case closes tight, and the locking hole is offset to the left side of the handle.
Any one have any comments or critiques to my plan?
Thank you in advance.
Whootsinator
01-02-11, 13:48
I'm nearly positive the ammo has to be in a separate container, also locked.
I'm nearly positive the ammo has to be in a separate container, also locked.
I've flown with ammo and guns in the same case many times. They want the ammo in the factory box, or something similar like a plastic ammo box, (no loaded mags, loose rounds, etc.).
Not sure if it is still a requirement, but used to be that the case had to be an ATA approved case. Cases that you get with the purchase of your new pistol aren't ATA approved nor are they remotely secure even when locked. They are easily accessed by a pissed off squirrel with a can opener.
Suwannee Tim
01-02-11, 15:03
I flew with two five shooter 38s in one box which was a hard plastic lockable case that some gun or another came in. The ammo need not be in the lockable box. The box needs to be locked with your locks, not TSA locks. I used two locks keyed alike in the two holes of the box. Had I used one lock it would be possible remove the guns by opening the unlocked corner and prying the case open. I did not want to be denied the right to fly on that basis.
NOTE THIS: If your flight is diverted to gun hostile jurisdiction such as NY, NJ or IL you must not take possession of your luggage. If you do, probably nothing will happen until you attempt to check the bag back in. You will then be arrested and charged. I don't know how you should handle this except to make the airline send your bag on to your destination or possibly take your bag, rent a car and get the hell out of the gun hostile jurisdiction as fast and inconspicuously as possible. You might have to abandon your guns and luggage if it came to that. You need to have a plan for this possibility, especially if you are flying through IL, NY, NJ, etc. Your connecting flight is canceled, you take your bag, next day when you try to catch a flight you become a newly minted felon.
F-Trooper05
01-02-11, 15:39
NOTE THIS: If your flight is diverted to gun hostile jurisdiction such as NY, NJ or IL you must not take possession of your luggage. If you do, probably nothing will happen until you attempt to check the bag back in. You will then be arrested and charged. I don't know how you should handle this except to make the airline send your bag on to your destination or possibly take your bag, rent a car and get the hell out of the gun hostile jurisdiction as fast and inconspicuously as possible. You might have to abandon your guns and luggage if it came to that. You need to have a plan for this possibility, especially if you are flying through IL, NY, NJ, etc. Your connecting flight is canceled, you take your bag, next day when you try to catch a flight you become a newly minted felon.
Where did you hear this? I'm pretty sure that would violate the "Safe Passage Clause" of the Firearms Owners Protection Act...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
Alpha Sierra
01-02-11, 18:17
Where did you hear this? I'm pretty sure that would violate the "Safe Passage Clause" of the Firearms Owners Protection Act...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act
The NYC Port Authority Police has violated peoples rights under FOPA more than once. Google is your friend.
Alpha Sierra
01-02-11, 18:18
I'm nearly positive the ammo has to be in a separate container, also locked.
That only depends on the airline and to the best of my knowledge Air Tran is the only one that requires so.
I've flown in Delta and Continental with ammo (in factory boxes) in the same case as the firearms. Not a single issue with the airline or TSA either way at any time.
I do know the airline's regs inside and out before I fly and I take a copy of the relevant section with me.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-02-11, 20:32
I've flown with ammo and guns in the same case many times. They want the ammo in the factory box, or something similar like a plastic ammo box, (no loaded mags, loose rounds, etc.).
I've flown with loaded mags, but it seems that I may have been lucky.
(I use a pelican case inside a regular bag, FWIW.) It does seem that if you keep the ammo out of the locked case that has the guns, they don't seem to ask to open the case after x-raying it. It seems that there is a go/no-go as to whether they see 'explosives' in the bag with the gun. Just an observation.
There are several threads on flying with firearms.
Hard sided case. Lock it up so that it can't be readily pulled open. TSA locks ok but may not be ideal. Ammo in manufacturer boxes.
Some manufacturer cases will be GTG. Others, not. A quick look at some of my S&W cases leaves me in doubt about them.
I fly with ammo loaded in mags and don't have an issue, but some do. It's convenient and worth a try. When in doubt, carry an empty box just in case.
See previous threads for other good advice, much of it from folks that have flown a lot.
The TSA says:
"You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition."
"You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard)."
What I'm gaining from this is that regardless of airline, the TSA wants you to put the ammo in a box other than a magazine.
If traveling with a carbine, the PMAG covers seem to meet compliance because they cover "exposed portions of ammunition".
Alpha Sierra
01-02-11, 22:06
The TSA says:
"You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition."
"You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard)."
What I'm gaining from this is that regardless of airline, the TSA wants you to put the ammo in a box other than a magazine.
If traveling with a carbine, the PMAG covers seem to meet compliance because they cover "exposed portions of ammunition".
No, the TSA wants you to follow the rules.
If you cover the exposed portion of the magazine, ie the feed lips, you can use it to transport ammo. It's right there in their freaking rules. No need to invent even more rules.
Robb Jensen
01-02-11, 22:15
You also have to abide by the airlines of whom you plan on flying with your firearm.
I have flown in and out of DC, NYNY, Puerto Rico, LA, and other very anti-gun places doing the following;
Pistol/s in locked S&W hard pistol case. Magazines and boxed ammo contained in a separate S&W pistol case (I typically carry a G19 and a S&W J frame .38 everywhere I go, so a mix of 9mm ammo in magazines and a box of .38 is convenient for me). All contained in the same suitcase.
I have never had any issues with this set-up, mainly because it strictly adheres to the rules.
You also have to abide by the airlines of whom you plan on flying with your firearm.
True.
I'm finding that even when the airline is more restrictive though, they're deferring to TSA. Handy, as long as TSA knows its own rules.
True.
I'm finding that even when the airline is more restrictive though, they're deferring to TSA. Handy, as long as TSA knows its own rules.
Unfortunately the airline employees have different interpretation of their own airline rules. Last time I flew Air-Tran the person at the check-in counter had me lock the gun case (the usual way) while on the return flight they asked me to take the gun out, clear it to show them it was empty and then lock the gun itself and put it back in the case. I did not have time to argue with them so it went that way. The good news is that the stock M&P case and lock were enough to make them happy (ammo was iby itself in the suitcase, in its original packaging).
When I traveled to paintball tournaments they used to make us take out our high pressure air tanks to show them that they were completely empty and the pressure gauges read 0psi. Sometimes they even pushed in the nipple to prove there wasn't any pressure keeping it closed.
Is a HPA tank rated for 4500psi (and tested every 5 years to well over that) going to rupture at 30,000 feet? No.
Does that matter, at all, to the TSA? No.
As for traveling with a firearm, the biggest thing to worry about besides your ammunition being packed properly is having a good, sturdy, lockable case. And a lock or two--I think they require that you use TSA approved locks for firearms. I would not fly with any of the factory boxes that I have; they are far too easy to pry open and get things out without removing a lock. Last thing I need is some bad apple TSA agent stealing my guns.
Unfortunately the airline employees have different interpretation of their own airline rules. Last time I flew Air-Tran the person at the check-in counter had me lock the gun case (the usual way) while on the return flight they asked me to take the gun out, clear it to show them it was empty and then lock the gun itself and put it back in the case. I did not have time to argue with them so it went that way. The good news is that the stock M&P case and lock were enough to make them happy (ammo was iby itself in the suitcase, in its original packaging).
There can be a lot of variability in the counter employees. Less so with supervisors. When I encounter issues, I thank the employee for the assistance they offered, assure them of my intent to work the issue(s) out, and my need to do so with their supervisor and/or, GSC, and/or a rep from TSA. That's worked well for me.
There can be a lot of variability in the counter employees. Less so with supervisors. When I encounter issues, I thank the employee for the assistance they offered, assure them of my intent to work the issue(s) out, and my need to do so with their supervisor and/or, GSC, and/or a rep from TSA. That's worked well for me.
Very true. Another thing that helps is to carry a printed version of both the TSA and the airline requirements which I did. It was not a problem for me to satisfy their request at that time and it was a direct flight so I did not bother 'arguing' the regulations with them but in case you have to connect or if they won't let you board, calling a supervisor and having the rules at hand is definitely the way to go.
Another thing worth noting is that airports are configured differently with regards to the luggage scan: at some airports the TSA baggage inspection is right besides the checkin counter while at other airports it might be on a different floor not accessible to the public.
If the TSA luggage scan is by the airline counter just hang around until your suitcase goes through like that you are 100% sure that you passed the scan and should they decide to inspect your stuff you can hand them the key of the gun case.
If the TSA is located on another floor, keep monitoring the PA system as they might call you. It happened to me once in Indy as I was in the food court where you can't hear the PA calls. I was lucky enough that a friend of mine was out and heard it so he let me know. I had to go back to the airline counter and since the TSA luggage scan was off limits for the public, an airline employee had to run down there to give them my gun case key, wait for them to inspect it and come back up with the key which took forever.
I would not fly with any of the factory boxes that I have; they are far too easy to pry open and get things out without removing a lock. Last thing I need is some bad apple TSA agent stealing my guns.
Rest easy, there is no gun case / safe one can carry that can't be opened in seconds.
When I see people transporting firearms in the OEM case, whether it be at the range or on a trip, I think douche.
Get yourself atleast a decent (as in it doesn't have to be top of the line) aftermarket case made for transport of your firearms.
When I check-in a firearm at an airline counter it's always going to be a cheap one in a cheap case. I see no point in flying with a valuable firearm / case that might not only be lost with limited recourse but also get mishandled or damaged by strangers without me being present. When I want to move anything valuable I drive, or fly myself or simply overnight it fully insured in a Pelican / Storm style case.
When I see people transporting firearms in the OEM case, whether it be at the range or on a trip, I think douche.
That's one of the great things about getting old is that you simply stop carring about what others think of you... Seriously though, most manufacturer cases are worthless: you can't use them for storage because of the foam / moisture issue and their are not good for range duty either. In the end they are an expendable item which makes them perfect for check-in luggage in my book.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
Rest easy, there is no gun case / safe one can carry that can't be opened in seconds.
Dumbest comment so far!
I suppose you transport your guns in paper bags.
Simply adding the requirement that a tool be used to open a gun container is a large step in the right direction, especially when you're talking about flying or similar situation.
Dumbest comment so far!
I suppose you transport your guns in paper bags.
Simply adding the requirement that a tool be used to open a gun container is a large step in the right direction, especially when you're talking about flying or similar situation.
Since TSA rogue employees seem to be your main concern I hope you realize the TSA has the ability and tools to open / break-in locked baggage.
Also many of the smaller gun safes, even the biometric ones can easily be broken into, some do not require any tools a all.
But I'm sure you already knew that...
In the end they are an expendable item which makes them perfect for check-in luggage in my book.
The factory packaging of your firearm is not an "expendable item" if you care about the value of your firearms.
To me if it's something like a Glock, M&P or the like the case is expendable... and so is the gun. Besides the factory box has little to no impact on their resale value, if you buy an M&P for $349 or a G19 for $415 you can shoot them and sell them back overnight for the exact same price... box or no box. As far as I am concerned it's part of the beauty of cheap plastic firearms, expendable and easily replaced. YMMV.
To me if it's something like a Glock, M&P or the like the case is expendable... and so is the gun. Besides the factory box has little to no impact on their resale value, if you buy an M&P for $349 or a G19 for $415 you can shoot them and sell them back overnight for the exact same price... box or no box. As far as I am concerned it's part of the beauty of cheap plastic firearms, expendable and easily replaced. YMMV.
You are full of shit. The box is worth 5% to 15% of any firearm, regardless of how used or new the condition of the gun.
:rolleyes: Hmmm.... and maybe you belong on Glock Talk... It's not collectibles I am taking about...
Maybe you can't sell a used M&P or Glock without their $20 box for the prices I posted above but I sure can.
Well, threw the unloaded pistol in an old ATA approved pistol case, threw in a box of ammo, didnt have room for two mags so just stuffed them in the suitcase. Put on two NON-tsa locks and checked in at the airport. Ticket agent had me show him the pistol, he threw in an orange tag and sent down to see the tsa agent. For some reason my bag failed the swipe test, bag itself, not the pistol case. He called for his supervisor and after a quick look had everything packed up and done.
Nothing but polite and respectful service from the tsa on the outbound leg, hopes it's that easy getting out of JAX.
Good for you, flying out of FL is generally uneventful since it's a gun friendly place and most airline employees are used to it (at least in my experience).
Dumbest comment so far!
I suppose you transport your guns in paper bags.
Simply adding the requirement that a tool be used to open a gun container is a large step in the right direction, especially when you're talking about flying or similar situation.
You may think it's a dumb post but it's true. The best you can do is slow entry down in hopes that they pick someone else's luggage to break into and steel.
Our team over the years has lost at least 4 and maybe 6 firearms in the LA airport all in Pelican or Storm cases with quality locks on them. we try to avoid LA as much as possible. (all small bore target rifles $3000 and not the smallest rifles either.)
These guys have time and means to break into just about any bag.
Another thing don't put firearm related stickers all over the case either. Even thought the dipshit airlines think it's a great idea to put damn tags on the cases that say firearms.
If the TSA luggage scan is by the airline counter just hang around until your suitcase goes through like that you are 100% sure that you passed the scan and should they decide to inspect your stuff you can hand them the key of the gun case.
If the TSA is located on another floor, keep monitoring the PA system as they might call you. It happened to me once in Indy as I was in the food court where you can't hear the PA calls. I was lucky enough that a friend of mine was out and heard it so he let me know. I had to go back to the airline counter and since the TSA luggage scan was off limits for the public, an airline employee had to run down there to give them my gun case key, wait for them to inspect it and come back up with the key which took forever.
Many have found it helpful to put their cell number on the luggage tag, as well as prominently displayed on the gun case.
Alpha Sierra
01-05-11, 13:51
When I see people transporting firearms in the OEM case, whether it be at the range or on a trip, I think douche.
Do you have anything useful to contribute, or do you just like to see your words in print?
Many have found it helpful to put their cell number on the luggage tag, as well as prominently displayed on the gun case.
Thanks, I always have it on the luggage tag but I hadn't thought about putting in on the gun case, I'll make sure to do that next time.
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