View Full Version : anti-seize on barrel nut
it says non-crosive and good to 1600 degrees, so I used it and NOW everyone says dont use it....
How can something that says non-crosive, and have traces of graphite?
I thought I was GTG intel I went online for a msds sheet, and NOW see graphite :sad:
What would you do?
I use Loc-Tite C5A anti seize and have been for years. It works without any problems at all. YMMV.
it says non-crosive and good to 1600 degrees, so I used it and NOW everyone says dont use it....
How can something that says non-crosive, and have traces of graphite?
I thought I was GTG intel I went online for a msds sheet, and NOW see graphite :sad:
What would you do?
Graphite isn't corrosive unless you sandwich it between steel and aluminum.
+1 for Locktite C5A. Regular grease with a pile of moly powder mixed in works, too.
Graphite isn't corrosive unless you sandwich it between steel and aluminum.
well it is between steel and aluminum..its a barrel nut.
+1 for Locktite C5A. Regular grease with a pile of moly powder mixed in works, too.
Checking the MSDS sheet, this stuff looks to have more graphite than the other.
I've done a few uppers, and varied from anti-seize to moly and even slip 2000 EWG on the last. Never noticed a difference in how the weapon functioned.
If the purpose of the grease/what ever would be to prevent galling of the receiver threads...my question would how often are you taking off your barrel nut?
Graphite, schmaphite. I have been using it for around 4 years or so and not one of the AR's I have built or worked on has ever had an issue.
well it is between steel and aluminum..its a barrel nut.
Checking the MSDS sheet, this stuff looks to have more graphite than the other.
well it is between steel and aluminum..its a barrel nut.
Checking the MSDS sheet, this stuff looks to have more graphite than the other.
True..but there is anodizing there as well which protects it. Just put some grease on it and call it a day.
it says non-crosive and good to 1600 degrees, so I used it and NOW everyone says dont use it....
Who's telling you not to anti-seize?
Most will tell you that you shouldn't build without it.
Who's telling you not to anti-seize?
Most will tell you that you shouldn't build without it.
Its not the anti-seize, its the graphite IN the anti-seize.
Checking the MSDS sheet, this stuff looks to have more graphite than the other.
You're right! I just checked the MSDS and there it is: 10-20% graphite.
I can tell you that in some aerospace applications, graphite is a no-no. Reasoning is that it accelerates galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals. On the other hand, I trust Iraqgunz' experience and feel that a Loctite C5-A won't hurt anything on an AR.
C5-A on the barrel nut still protects a darn sight better than nothing on a barrel nut!
If you're really anal, mix up some graphite free anti-seize yourself. I'm cheap so I use marine bearing grease with moly powder. Works fine. Could always add some powdered silver or copper.
Reference for why graphite is a no-no: http://corrosion.ksc.nasa.gov/pubs/tm584c.txt
To summarize, the following recommended practices should be
observed to keep galvanic corrosion to a minimum.
a. Avoid the use of widely dissimilar metals in direct
contact.
b. When dissimilar metals must come into contact, they
should be separated by using nonconductive barrier
materials, a paint coating, or by plating. (Such as the hard ano' on an upper receiver and the grease on the threads)
c. The anode should be as large as feasible in relation to
the cathode.
d. Coat both the anode and the cathode with the same
material.
e. When possible, install fasteners that have been dipped
in epoxy mastic coatings in accordance with KSC-STD-C-
0001.
f. Seal threaded inserts with epoxy mastic coatings prior
to insertion into castings.
g. Avoid the use of lock or toothed washers over plated or
anodized surfaces. (Case in point: AR hardware tends to use threadlocker rather than Nord Lock or toothed washers.)
h. Use only dry-film lubricants that are graphite free
[MIL-L-46010 (MR) is graphite free].
You're right! I just checked the MSDS and there it is: 10-20% graphite.
At least what I used shows <10
... Could always add some powdered silver or copper.
I cant think of the word, for why I think your saying this, but do you mean like zink on a boat? something added for it to attack of needed?
If so it also has aluminum...where the C5-A has copper
Its this...
http://www.permatex.com/documents/msds/01_USA-English/80071.pdf
Anti seize contains solids, unlike regular grease. Powdered metal is common. In some situations metallic additives aren't desired, so stuff like silica, graphite or molybdenum disulfide is used.
madcratebuilder
01-06-11, 09:11
What is the reasoning behind using anti-seize? The TM's state molybdenum disulphide grease to be used on barrel/barrel nut threads.
eternal24k
01-06-11, 09:56
I have been using multi-purpose moly grease, interesting to see this about the graphite though.
I've done a few uppers, and varied from anti-seize to moly and even slip 2000 EWG on the last. Never noticed a difference in how the weapon functioned.
If the purpose of the grease/what ever would be to prevent galling of the receiver threads...my question would how often are you taking off your barrel nut?
A main purpose of the grease is being able to freely remove the barrel after years of it being put together. Having a grease that will not burn off easily is important.
The call-out in the 23&p is for Aeroshell 33ms grease. That's what I use. One tube will last a LONG time. Why not use the right stuff?
I started using the Loc-tite C5-A about 5 years ago when I was in the middle east because molybdenum wasn't available at my location.
I was easily able to obtain some of the Loc-tite. I continued using it for the simple fact that I could easily bring a small tube with me when I traveled and didn't see a down side to it.
I have also completely taken down military issued M4's and M16's and none of them had any type of grease on the threads. That tells me it was either not being done or it burned off over time.
What is the reasoning behind using anti-seize? The TM's state molybdenum disulphide grease to be used on barrel/barrel nut threads.
So IG, do you think the C5-A might not "burn off" as quickly as the call-out MS grease? I'm all for using the correct materials, but if something is proven better I listen.
I can still see some small traces of it on my SBR that I put together more than 1 year ago. It's had at least 3K rounds through it if not more.
So IG, do you think the C5-A might not "burn off" as quickly as the call-out MS grease? I'm all for using the correct materials, but if something is proven better I listen.
madcratebuilder
01-06-11, 12:00
That tells me it was either not being done or it burned off over time.
I have to agree that moly grease would burn off over time, particularly with an auto or burst weapon. I've used "hi-temp" anti-seize on other applications in the past. That stuff stays on the threads for a long, long time.
I can still see some small traces of it on my SBR that I put together more than 1 year ago. It's had at least 3K rounds through it if not more.
Interesting.... I have a build of mine that's got around 7,000 rounds through it and I used the MS grease. Maybe this year I'll pull the barrel out of curiosity.
eternal24k
01-06-11, 14:24
maybe material applied to barrel nut should be added to "the chart" :sarcastic:
maybe material applied to barrel nut should be added to "the chart" :sarcastic:
Very funny ;)
Despite the warnings against graphite, I believe it won't harm things due to the anodization on the receiver. Products from Loctite, Permatex, Dow Corning et. al. should get the job done, as should regular moly grease as per the TM.
What would be valuable on the chart would be a column that tracks who assembles their shit dry, vs. those who use something.
While I'm on my soap box, a column for gas port diameter would be pretty nice, too.
well Iv never seen any brand of anti-seize, just dry up and go away, so Im thinking I will be fine....
I dont ever plan on removing the barrel anyway:D
So IG, do you think the C5-A might not "burn off" as quickly as the call-out MS grease? I'm all for using the correct materials, but if something is proven better I listen.
Anti-seize compounds like C5A are designed not to burn off when used in applications like turbine engine hot ends...so that they can be disassembled more easily or at least w/o damage after several thousand hours at a couple thousand degrees.
I use it on my FHs as well.
ridgerunner70
08-09-12, 15:55
13174what about the nickel based anti-seize?
davidjinks
08-09-12, 19:09
I just got done searching for "Non-graphite containing" anti-seize. Everyone I've looked up contains graphite. That includes the one you posted ridgerunner70.
http://www.crcindustries.com/faxdocs/msds/4086.pdf
Here's my question:
Is it the level (Amount) of graphite in the anti-seize that's bad or is it just graphite in general?
Is there a certain level of graphite to abide by? 5-10 weight %, <5 weight %
I understand the concept of the galvanic corrosion etc. But of all the anti-seize products I've researched just about every one of them had graphite.
Linked example:
http://www.saftlok.com/safteze/antiseiz/index.htm
Is it really that bad of a problem with galvanic corrosion? My understanding is that if the anti-seize gets wet and it contains graphite, that's when it gets bad.
ridgerunner70
08-09-12, 19:40
I was hoping the nickel would have been ok for the barrel nut.
Nickel should be good to go. Copper can cause galvanic corrosion with aluminum under certain conditions involving water & contaminants
Nickel is fine. It has a higher temp value and isn't subject to galvanic corrosion issues, all the benefits, none of the risk, little more pricey I think. Used to deal with a lot of pumps in a sea water environment and had to use it as opposed to copper based, serious issues would crop up within 6 months to two years. I have no idea the time frame which copper based might create an issue in a "normal" environment but since I plan on passing all my firearms on to others after I'm gone I choose to risk as little as possible.
ridgerunner70
08-09-12, 22:19
I'm going to be putting a SS Bison barrel on a BCM upper so I hope I'm good to go with the nickel based.
Look at never-seez blue moly. It's expensive but has no graphite.
My container says it is rated to 1500 degrees.
Amazon should have it.
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