View Full Version : Help finding a load for BCM 14.5 Middy
I am trying to find a load that works in my BCM 14.5 middy. My current load is 25gr of h335, 55gr Hornady FMJBT, and LC brass. I am going to try up to 26 gr of h335. I tried an H buffer and a standard buffer. The bolt will not stay open on the last round. The load I am using seems pretty common and it does not seem underpowered to me. Is there anyone using the same load or similar? What reloads work for you? Would a BCM 16" middy be more forgiving? I have some Tac powder too I can try. I am using a mix of Pmags and Colt magazines. I checked the gas block, gas tube, gas key, and gas rings. I have only put around 60 rounds through this rifle. The upper is all new BCM and the lower is one I put about 2000-3000 rounds through with another upper and I never had a problem. I checked the bolt catch and it looks normal. The bolt does lock to the rear with Winchester Q3131.
MustangGreg66
01-05-11, 15:24
I'm running that exact same load and it's locked back every time using 10rd mags and a couple PMags I got my hands on. Do you have access to a chronograph? It'd be interesting to see if you're getting the same velocity as me. I'm getting in the neighborhood of 2750 FPS, I'll have to go check my records...
So with your load it's feeding fine, but won't lock open on the last round? Sounds like, assuming everything on the gun is good, you're right on the threshold of having it work. See if you can chrono the load and maybe try 25.5gr. I havnt worked the load up so I'm not sure where you'd run into excess pressure, so as always, work up slow and look for pressure signs
I've had some trouble with some other factory loads short stroking in my gun. Olympic 62gr green tip, and Prvi 62gr green tip to be specific. 55gr FMJ gunshow reloads worked fine. I havn't shot much else as far as factory ammo.
I wonder if the powder is temp sensitive at all. I'm in the low 60degree weather over here.
I run the 25g of H335 behind a 55g FMJBT as well and have run several thousand out of my gun with no issues. Are you using magnum primers or regular? Ball powder(like H335) likes a magnum primer over a regular since ball powder is a bit harder to light off and get a complete burn.
What OAL are you loading to?
Not that it should matter with those powder charges.
I've run as little as 23 grains of H335 under a 55 gr FMJ at 2.22" OAL and had no issues with locking back on the last round. 24.5 gr with a 2.25" or even a 2.26" OAL still lock back fine for me. 25 gr should do the trick no problem, but I do have a 16" BCM middy.
I am using Wolf .223 primers which I believe are magnum primers. I am at work right now but off the top of my head I think those loads had an OAL of 2.215, I think. That load cycles fine but the bolt does not lock back. I do have a BAD lever on it, maybe that is causing the problems. I'll have to try it without it. It does lock back on Q3131 though.
m1a_scoutguy
01-05-11, 23:35
Hmmmm,,I bought some H335 myself a while back to "try" and I believe I was running 25 grns in LC Brass,,Wolf Mag Primer with 55 Grn FMJ bullets and my 14.5 rifle ran great !!! I also shoot AA2230 about 99.9% of the time though & I run 24 grns of powder with all the exact same components as above and have the same results,,they run in that rifle perfect !! I should check the OAL,,but I normally seat to the cannalure and be done with it. I have never used a Chrono,,but will check them someday I guess !!! I use a A1 Stock & Buffer !
My rifle sounds similair to yours,,,but mine is a DD 14.5 BBL,,DD Full Auto Carrier & Bolt,,,BattleComp ! :D
I am running WC844T (non canister grade H335), 25gr, mixed brass, IMI or LC or PRVI 55gr bullets. But with a 16" mid length Centurion Arms LW barrel. Has BAD lever. No issues locking back or anything.
Do you have another 14.5" midlength you can try? Friend, range buddy, etc? Try the same ammo in some other similar guns and see what happens. The goal is to try and determine if the gun or the ammo is the problem. 25gr H335 should be GTG.
I don't know anyone esle that has a 14.5 middy. I do have two LaRue Stealth uppers, one 16" and one 18" both are middies. They run that load and lesser powered loads no problem.
I don't know anyone esle that has a 14.5 middy. I do have two LaRue Stealth uppers, one 16" and one 18" both are middies. They run that load and lesser powered loads no problem.
That's been my experience. I have an H2 in my BCM middy and it'll run loads much lighter than that before it starts to fail to lock back.
I am wondering if there is something wrong with the gun, not the load. For example (thinking out loud here) an impaired gas system?
m1a_scoutguy
01-06-11, 17:58
Just for the heck of it,,did you take the BAD lever off yet ?? Do that and see,,,did it work good before the BAD was installed ? Just thinking of different things !!! Keep us posted !!! :)
Just for the heck of it,,did you take the BAD lever off yet ?? Do that and see,,,did it work good before the BAD was installed ? Just thinking of different things !!! Keep us posted !!! :)
I have not shot it without the BAD lever yet. I will tomorrow or Saturday. I've never shot it without the BAD lever before either. I am hoping that is the problem. I am also going to try another BCG too. There does not appear to be anything wrong with the current one though.
m1a_scoutguy
01-06-11, 23:15
I have not shot it without the BAD lever yet. I will tomorrow or Saturday. I've never shot it without the BAD lever before either. I am hoping that is the problem. I am also going to try another BCG too. There does not appear to be anything wrong with the current one though.
I would try one thing at a time !! Take the BAD off,,leave "everything" else the same !!! Start changing multiple things and ya mite end up worse than when ya started ! ;) Use same Ammo,,Buffer,Bolt/Carrier,,Mags,, etc !! Before you take the BAD off though,,really look & check everything over close,,,maybe you can see something hangin up or dragging,,,just a thought !! Then after you check everything,,take it off and see what happens !!
I would try one thing at a time !! Take the BAD off,,leave "everything" else the same !!! Start changing multiple things and ya mite end up worse than when ya started ! ;) Use same Ammo,,Buffer,Bolt/Carrier,,Mags,, etc !! Before you take the BAD off though,,really look & check everything over close,,,maybe you can see something hangin up or dragging,,,just a thought !! Then after you check everything,,take it off and see what happens !!
Thanks for the advice. I am hoping I can narrow it down. I figure worst case I can send the upper off to adco and have them look at it and maybe open up the gas port so it will run reliably with normal ammo and not just stuff loaded to Nato specs. I don't want the gun to be over gassed though. I might pick up some .223 ammo from walmart so I have something other than Wolf, Q3131, and my reloads to try out.
Since you have some TAC:
24.5 grains of TAC with a 55 Hornady is a very good and fairly standard practice round. I'm using Rem 7 1/2 primers (probably not your issue, but primers can make a difference).
It's nowhere near hot, but check your loading manual anyway. It runs my N4 with H buffer just fine (but that's a 16" barrel). If your 14.5" wont run with either reload a standard buffer or the other suggestions "might" need consideration.
Well I went to the range today and I was having the same problems. I only shot it without the bad lever and the bolt still would not lock back on an empty magazine. I got through about 10 rounds and it went fine and then after that it started to do the same thing. I took the wife out with me and she was cold so we left before I could try another BCG. I lubed the rifle before I went to the range so I had it pretty wet. I do not see any signs of abnormal wear. I'll have to try again next weekend.
Exiledviking
01-08-11, 12:29
This is a stretch, but what buffer spring are you using and what lube?
This is a stretch, but what buffer spring are you using and what lube?
Good question on the spring. I had one of the CS springs that are both rifle and carbine usable and had similar problems as I had not cut it down at all for carbine use (I had forgotten about what it was for as I had bought it a couple years previously and it was just in my parts box). I had the same symptoms with it. Once I replaced it with a normal "GI" type carbine spring I had no more issues.
I am using slip ewl and the buffer spring is a normal carbine spring. I never had a problem with this spring with the upper that used to be on this lower, but it is a spring from del-ton. Maybe I'll try the spring from my 6940. Thanks again for the help fellas.
I think I am going to bump my load up to 25.5 and the max load of 26 if all else fails. I would hate for this rifle to only run on a small variety of ammo. Do you guys think it would be a bad idea to have the gas port opened up a little by adco?
I shot some 75gr Hornady with 23.3gr of Tac. They ran great. So did the 55gr Hornady loads I was having trouble with. It was about ten degrees warmer today than my previous range trips. So I think I will load up some rounds at about 25.3 to 25.5 and wait for another extremely cold day and see how they run. I shot 25 rounds one at a time of the 55gr loads and the bolt locked back on every single round. :cool: Can the cold make that much of a difference?
...
Can the cold make that much of a difference?
Possibly.
I recently noticed weaker ejection with 55gr Hornadys and 24.5gr TAC in my 16" N4 Light /w H buffer. Cool weather (low/mid 40s). I had a bolt over mag malfunction with a near empty 20 rd P Mag as well. No issues in warmer weather with over 2K or so of this load. No issues with multiple mags of 64 WWs at 24.0 grs in the same session. Also no issues with the 55s out of 30 round P Mags.
I changed from a blue recoil spring back to the factory original and had the same results with the temp ~39*. Also had another bolt over mag malfunction; again only with a 20 rd PMag (a different one).
It was 29 degrees when I was at the range this time. The two times I had trouble it was below 20 degrees. I'm hoping if I bump my load up a touch it will work in all weather.
m1a_scoutguy
01-29-11, 22:26
It was 29 degrees when I was at the range this time. The two times I had trouble it was below 20 degrees. I'm hoping if I bump my load up a touch it will work in all weather.
I believe the cold can affect your loads,,are you using Magnum Primers ? If not,,just try that first before bumping up the powder,,if you are already using the mag primers,,then maybe a tad more powder will help ! It is interesting though,,when that load works in a great variety of rifles,,but is giving yours some trouble.:confused: It mite be interesting to check the Gas Port,,BCM is top shelf,,but something could of slipped through that wasn't just right,,ya would have to take it apart some,,but I'm sure it could be checked before you spent the $$$ to ship and such !!! We had 20 Below last Monday and I sure as heck didn't go to the range that day & it has since warmed up some,,into the high 20s & low 30s,,Hmmmm,real heat wave,,we have somemore cold coming,,single digit this coming week,,I think I'll lock my rifle/ammo in my trunk over night and hit the range in the AM before it warms up and see how she runs,,;) I'll let ya know !! :)
I believe the cold can affect your loads,,are you using Magnum Primers ? If not,,just try that first before bumping up the powder,,if you are already using the mag primers,,then maybe a tad more powder will help ! It is interesting though,,when that load works in a great variety of rifles,,but is giving yours some trouble.:confused: It mite be interesting to check the Gas Port,,BCM is top shelf,,but something could of slipped through that wasn't just right,,ya would have to take it apart some,,but I'm sure it could be checked before you spent the $$$ to ship and such !!! We had 20 Below last Monday and I sure as heck didn't go to the range that day & it has since warmed up some,,into the high 20s & low 30s,,Hmmmm,real heat wave,,we have somemore cold coming,,single digit this coming week,,I think I'll lock my rifle/ammo in my trunk over night and hit the range in the AM before it warms up and see how she runs,,;) I'll let ya know !! :)
I use Wolf .223 primers. Here is the description from Widener's
SMALL RIFLE 223 (part # QQQSR223) NEW NEW This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite.
I have been thinking of checking the gas port. I contacted BCM before I bought the upper to see if they pin their low profile gas blocks, here was their response.
Not pinned. Dimpled, set screw, light temp loc tite. Takes about 20min and a torch to remove.
I'm a little hesitant to remove it. I'm afraid I may damage the barrel using a torch on the gas block. I would like to hear how your rifle runs with that extremely cold temp.
m1a_scoutguy
01-30-11, 12:35
I use Wolf .223 primers. Here is the description from Widener's
SMALL RIFLE 223 (part # QQQSR223) NEW NEW This is the newest primer available in the Wolf line. It is ever so slightly hotter than the small rifle magnum primer and it comes with a brass colored thick cup. This primer can be used in place of the SRM primer or used when a different powder is used that is hard to ignite.
I have been thinking of checking the gas port. I contacted BCM before I bought the upper to see if they pin their low profile gas blocks, here was their response.
Not pinned. Dimpled, set screw, light temp loc tite. Takes about 20min and a torch to remove.
I'm a little hesitant to remove it. I'm afraid I may damage the barrel using a torch on the gas block. I would like to hear how your rifle runs with that extremely cold temp.
Yikes,,Torch !!! Is that just to "Heat" it up or do they have to cut something ?? :confused: If it is Med Strength Loctite,,heat it up with a Hair Drier or something that won't hurt the finish ! Set it next to a wood stove,,,;) But then it all boils down to how much do ya want to mess with it yourself and then if ya screw it up,,your pissed at yourself,,,so maybe its $$$ well spent sending it back to BCM. It sounds like your going about it right,,,doing one step at a time,,so ya don't get lost by doing multiple things and then can't figure out what fixed it or what goofed it up more,,LOL !!! I feel your pain,,,it sounds frustrating for sure,,,:( I will give ya a heads up on shooting my 14.5 in the cold,,,it looks like Single Digits all week for the "Lows" but Friday shows -2 Below,,that could change to colder or warmer as the week goes,,but I will find a day for sure this week and get to the range,,,I will let ya know.
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