View Full Version : US House Rep Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ) shot at public event....
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 12:33
Supposedly point blank range, and several other people were hit. She was holding an event outside a grocery store in Tuscon.
She is a democrat put pro gun, and pro-border security. Her husband is a military astronaut.
This is so not what we need right now... doesn't matter what the motivation of the perpetrator, end results will not be good.
Prayers for her and her family as well as the other victims and their families.
I just read some stuff hoping this was not politically motivated, or personal, but it really sounds like it was.
My thoughts out to all 12 of the people, and the 12 families. Let's hope they all walk away from this. Haven't seen anything about a fatality yet.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 13:15
Hope all innocent people in this matter will live and be ok. This is bad bad bad for us.
lethal dose
01-08-11, 13:20
I'm seeing reports of multiple fatalities. A real shame. Prayers for everyone affected.
What a terrible tragedy.
15 or 20 shots fired, 12 people shot, US Congresswoman killed. On a side note, I'm going to order several more 30 round Pmags and a couple more cases of .223.
NPR and MSN are reporting 6 dead, including the Congresswoman. No word yet on the scumbag who shot them.
This is VERY bad.
Whootsinator
01-08-11, 13:36
Christ... this is well beyond bad... I'm truly at a loss for appropriate words to describe it...
The_Biased_Observer
01-08-11, 13:36
Countdown for Grijalva initiated guncontrol begins now.
Countdown for Grijalva initiated guncontrol begins now.
That's certainly one thing I'm afraid of right now. The other is that, despite how much we may bitch and moan about congresscritters, we can't just start capping them. That way lies turning America into another Somalia...
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-11, 13:50
So, is this just your local crazy going nuts? She doesn't sound like the normal target for some kind of politically motivated act, she sounded to the right of John McCain.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 13:51
Countdown for Grijalva initiated guncontrol begins now.
CNN and MSNBC are shit talking conservatives and gun owners. Someone on CNN said AZ has an over the top gun culture. They have pretty much already decided its a Tea Party member.
Pretty sick to turn something like this into pushing your agenda right off the bat. They already brought Palin into this with that graph she made about "targeting" certain politicians in the 2010 election. The one with the cross hairs.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 13:52
So, is this just your local crazy going nuts? She doesn't sound like the normal target for some kind of politically motivated act, she sounded to the right of John McCain.
No info the gunman yet other than reports he was shot by return fire and is in custody.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 13:52
Current reports state she is alive but critical.
Having seen head trauma due to gunshot before, I'll be amazed if she lives. It'll take a miracle.
This isnt the way we do things in America, we are a democracy, if you dont like your rep., vote em out.
Im leaving the house to purchase a Glock 26 right now. A pistol was used in this, and thats the first thing they'll try to take after hi-caps. G&R is selling Pmags for $11 right now, buy some people, buy alot.
Out on a limb and say some lib thought she wasn't liberal enough?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 13:54
Out on a limb and say some lib thought she wasn't liberal enough?
His political motivations do not matter, the liberal media will play him to be a right-wing nut simply becaused he used a gun. They dont know what a left-wing nut is.
...we are a democracy...
Er, federal republic...
Business_Casual
01-08-11, 13:57
Let's not jump to conclusions.
His political motivations do not matter, the liberal media will play him to be a right-wing nut simply becaused he used a gun. They dont know what a left-wing nut is.
Not how it played out with the Discovery Channel hostage taker, just sayin'.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 13:59
Out on a limb and say some lib thought she wasn't liberal enough?
She is a conservative dem. Used to be a republican is what Im hearing. She is moderately pro-gun, was part of the reading of the Constitution, was pushing for a pay cut for Congress, wanted more money for Border Security and wanted troops in AZ. She did vote for Obamacare though. She voted against Pelosi for the House minority leader spot.
She is a conservative dem. Used to be a republican is what Im hearing. She is moderately pro-gun, was part of the reading of the Constitution, was pushing for a pay cut for Congress, wanted more money for Border Security and wanted troops in AZ. She did vote for Obamacare though. She voted against Pelosi for the House minority leader spot.
Yep, that's my point, probably pissed she "hated the brown people" or something. Wonder why there is such a media black out. Usually they are throwing opinions out like candy during these things.
GermanSynergy
01-08-11, 14:07
Politically motivated violence is utterly unacceptable in the United States of America. Prayers for the fallen and their familes. :(
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 14:09
CNN interviews Dem Party leader for AZ, man states this will bring fallout on gun rights. Watch out folks.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 14:10
Updated with MSNBC saying recovered handgun was a 9MM Glock.
You think this is going to cause another run on mags, ammo, and guns like what happened when Obama was elected? Glad Ive been stocking up in the last 2 years.
Politically motivated violence is utterly unacceptable in the United States of America. Prayers for the fallen and their familes. :(
Agreed. As to why, we need to understand the most inflaming issue she stands for. On the AZ border?......smuggling? Cartels? IDing the shooter might shed some light on it.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-11, 14:13
Jeff Rogers, local Dem Pol, is already turning this into a political issue. More civilized discourse, tamp down the dissent. The lady isn't even dead yet and she already is a martyr for this guy.
GermanSynergy
01-08-11, 14:15
A pox on those that would ghoulishly expolit this woman's death for depriving law abiding Americans of their rights. :mad:
CNN interviews Dem Party leader for AZ, man states this will bring fallout on gun rights. Watch out folks.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 14:28
CNN correspondent says people who carry at rallies are nuts and that there are too many guns out there for angry people to get their hands on. Its starting...
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 14:29
Prayers to the congresswoman, the other victims, and our constitution.
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 14:32
Just reported that a man in the crowd shot the gunman.
Just reported that a man in the crowd shot the gunman.
Where's the report?
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 14:44
Where's the report?
Fox news got it from a local (Tucson) newspaper. I don't remember the name, sorry.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 14:46
Fox News confirming Federal Judge John Rolls was shot and killed.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 14:46
Fox reports that DHS has firmly ID'd the apprehended gunman. Some claims being made that he was a vet returning from A'stan, but that claim may be unfounded. 12:43 PT
AZ state senator Linda Lopez claims Gifford is now responsive to commands. Linda Lopez from Arizona is blaming the "vitriol of tea partiers" for the shooting. 12 47 PT
Fox talking head Doug Mckelway says he believes a fully automatic illegal weapon was used at 12:46 PT.
Fox confirms suspect is 22yr old white male. 12:53 PT
Gunman name: jarod laughner 12:58 PT
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 14:54
Fox News confirming Federal Judge John Rolls was shot and killed.
He is now being reported as a victim, but not dead.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-11, 14:55
Really weird no description of the shooter has been released. With all those eye witnesses someone should have had at least hair and t-shirt color.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-11, 14:57
He is now being reported as a victim, but not dead.
Holy hopping Lazarus! Someone get these reporters under control.
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 14:57
Really weird no description of the shooter has been released. With all those eye witnesses someone should have had at least hair and t-shirt color.
22 yMO white male named Jared laughner
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 14:59
Holy hopping Lazarus! Someone get these reporters under control.
Okay, that's funny!:sarcastic:
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 15:01
Holy hopping Lazarus! Someone get these reporters under control.
Yeah its going to take at least a few more hours before things get even half way ironed out.
ICANHITHIMMAN
01-08-11, 15:08
So sad. I hate the news not matter the reason they are all dead and it will be the guns fault not the man.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:09
Fox confirms again that Judge Roll is dead. 1:09 PT
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 15:09
The judge didn't make it. Prayers sent.
Thomas M-4
01-08-11, 15:11
Not to worried about 2a but they will scream claiming right wingers.
Its going to take some time to get it the detail Ironed out.
Well now they are reporting 2 gunmen?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:12
Ummm....http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
montanadave
01-08-11, 15:19
Judge Roll, nominated to the federal bench in 1991 by former President Bush, received death threats in 2009 after ruling that a $32 million civil suit filed by illegal immigrants against an Arizona rancher who apprehended them while crossing his property could proceed to trial.
Much to early to speculate what motivated the shooter but it may not have even been related to Representative Giffords.
Better buckle up, lads, as no doubt we are going to be witness to one of the nastiest political shit storms this nation has seen in quite some time.
Ummm....http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
Ok....He's out there.....read like someone who is having a meltdown.
RancidSumo
01-08-11, 15:21
Ummm....http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
Favorite books include The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf...
Ummm....http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
holy shit, man.. this kid's batshit crazy. and stupid.
In conclusion, reading the second United States Constitution, I can't
trust the current government because of the ratifications: The
government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by
controlling grammar.
No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not back by gold and silver!
No! I won't trust in God!
Robb Jensen
01-08-11, 15:25
Ummm....http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10
Wow can you say "whack job" ?
he says he "studied grammar" in college... he talks about grammar being a form of mind control, and his grammar is, apparently, awful.
then he shot a bunch of politicians.
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 15:28
What?!?!?!
Come on now!
RancidSumo
01-08-11, 15:29
I think it was. Did you look at that nuts youtube channel? He is not right wing, he is not left wing, he is just ****ing crazy.
Littlelebowski
01-08-11, 15:29
So this lady was on Sarah Palin's "hit list". Coincidence? Think not.
Oh, get real. Good lord.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:30
Is this the first grammatically motivated shooting? Apparently in his eyes, "English grammar" was one of his driving motivations. I cant call him right or left wing, he was simply detracted from reality and was simply...insane. May God have mercy on his soul, because man will not.
This guy is another John Hinckley or Mark David Chapman.
Thank god the reports that he was an A'Stan vet are untrue.
holy shit, man.. this kid's batshit crazy. and stupid.
No kidding :eek: I've had bowel movements with more coherent thoughts than those "videos". Wow.
I did notice he references district 8 though, that's her district.
Bad deal all around.
She is a conservative dem. Used to be a republican is what Im hearing. She is moderately pro-gun, was part of the reading of the Constitution, was pushing for a pay cut for Congress, wanted more money for Border Security and wanted troops in AZ. She did vote for Obamacare though. She voted against Pelosi for the House minority leader spot.
damn... terrible news all around.
This guy is another John Hinckley or Mark David Chapman.
Thank god the reports that he was an A'Stan vet are untrue.
looks like he was in the process of enlistment.. or had been rejected, just from perusing his youtubbie channel.
no.. he's not right wing. he doesn't appear to be any wing.
they'll have a hard time selling him as right-wing, after that nice flag burning video.
If there's no flag in the constitution then the flag in the film is unknown.
There's no flag in the constitution.
Therefore, the flag in the film is unknown.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:34
looks like he was in the process of enlistment.. or had been rejected, just from perusing his youtubbie channel.
Ya, he made claims of Meps but not actual service.
The line of "in a few days I'll be conscience dreaming" is just chilling.
Is this the first grammatically motivated shooting? Apparently in his eyes, "English grammar" was one of his driving motivations. I cant call him right or left wing, he was simply detracted from reality and was simply...insane. May God have mercy on his soul, because man will not.
usually people who do crap like this are nuts and have nothing do with any major political party or ideology.
So this lady was on Sarah Palin's "hit list". Coincidence? Think not.
I'll take unsubstantiated HuffPo nonsense for $2000, Alex.
wow... check out democratic underground right now. these guys are even battier than ol' jared
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:40
Photo?: http://gallery.pictopia.com/azstar/gallery/102269/photo/8842226/?o=12
THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING. POST THAT SHIT SOMEWHERE ELSE NOT HERE.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-11, 15:42
Just pointing out a fact. This woman is on Sarah Palins list of Democrats that need to be "targeted" and removed from office. You can look it up for yourself on her ****ing website.
Yea I watched his youtube video, nothing about it suggests that he didn't have a specific political philosophy. There is also no proof he didn't feel he got his instructions from someone else. Isn't that exactly how and why John Hinckley decided to shoot Reagan? Hinckley was crazy too, doesn't change why he did it.
Dude, Jodie Foster or Sarah Palin- make up your mind who is to blame here.
"there's no proof he didn't feel he got his instructions from someone else"- a double negative and a 'feel'. Your grammar and reasoning is closer to his than anything else I've read here.
I can't believe how retarded the media is. They can't even get simple facts straight and they are in such a hurry to report something that instead of saying nothing they are saying whatever just to have something to report. ****in' amazing.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:45
Speculations are arising that a legally armed citizen returned fire from the crowd. Anyone seen any reports on this?
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:46
I can't believe how retarded the media is. They can't even get simple facts straight and they are in such a hurry to report something that instead of saying nothing they are saying whatever just to have something to report. ****in' amazing.
Exactly, imagine being the family of those that the media has claimed were dead/alive before the facts happened. Garbage. ****ing garbage.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 15:47
Did you miss the part about his favorite books being the communist manifesto and mein kampf?
Palin has nothing to do with this....:rolleyes:
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 15:47
Speculations are arising that a legally armed citizen returned fire from the crowd. Anyone seen any reports on this?
I mentioned it 2pages back. Fox news relayed it from a Tucson newspaper.
****in-A... listening to obama try to give what i can only guess is an attempt at a "heartfelt" speech is like pulling teeth. he might as well be reading a spreadsheet.
Outlander Systems
01-08-11, 15:51
Prayers to the wounded/slain. This whole event is a massive shit sammich.
You guys ain't kiddin', I tried looking at the nut-job's youtube channel.
This guy is grade A Certified Loony Tunes. I'm a pretty opened-minded rube, but the abject nonsense posted in his youtube videos is screaming "mental disorder". If he's a native English speaker, it's even more frightening.
It didn't take 0:30 into his "Hello" video to figure out the dude's bubble wasn't quite plumb, in a major way.
As usual, with someone that batshit, how in the hell wasn't this foreseen?
I'll bet a spare A2 grip it comes out this dude was off his meds.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 15:55
Prayers to the wounded/slain. This whole event is a massive shit sammich.
You guys ain't kiddin', I tried looking at the nut-job's youtube channel.
This guy is grade A Certified Loony Tunes. I'm a pretty opened-minded rube, but the abject nonsense posted in his youtube videos is screaming "mental disorder". If he's a native English speaker, it's even more frightening.
It didn't take 0:30 into his "Hello" video to figure out the dude's bubble wasn't quite plumb, in a major way.
As usual, with someone that batshit, how in the hell wasn't this foreseen?
I'll bet a spare A2 grip it comes out this dude was off his meds.
Yeah it looks like this guy is just a bat shit crazy turd and didn't really have much of anything to do with modern politics (right vs. left). Granted I don't know any right wing people that think of Mein Kampf and the communist manifesto as favorite reads but the guy is just a schizo.
Unfortunately he used a gun which is going to be the main talking points used for this instead of the fact the guy was just insane.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 15:56
I mentioned it 2pages back. Fox news relayed it from a Tucson newspaper.
Can you imagine the backlash if the CCW'ers round hit a citizen? Dear God.
Heartland Hawk
01-08-11, 15:56
+1 IG. I like the way that douche on Fox asserted that he (sic)"was pretty certain he used a fully automatic weapon...which are illegal...":mad:
no.. he's not right wing. he doesn't appear to be any wing.
they'll have a hard time selling him as right-wing, after that nice flag burning video.
He was a white guy with a gun and she was a Democrat. They'll make do.
Mac5.56, you are freaking unhinged. There is no proof he didn't feel he got his instructions from someone else? Wow. Just wow.
Never mind -- does not mean anything without the quote.
-----
This is really sad news. Both for the victims as well as for her constituents and for all of us as the political hack jobs seize on this for political advantage...
Being on Tucson, when I first saw the headline, I assumed it was some sort of anti-anti-illegal-immigration nutcase doing the shooting.
Not necessarily. I think the consensus would be that he/she took action to stop a deranged person from killing innocents.
Fortunately it looks as if people took action and were able to take him down.
Can you imagine the backlash if the CCW'ers round hit a citizen? Dear God.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 16:00
2nd youtube channel list as his favorites: http://www.youtube.com/user/Starhitshnaz
Heartland Hawk
01-08-11, 16:00
Geez. Can we stick to verified facts?
Let me make this real ****ing clear for those who are learning impaired. We can discuss the situation and what happened. Stupid mindless speculation or finger pointing won't be tolerated. If you can't understand that then hop on your moped and get the **** out.
Not necessarily. I think the consensus would be that he/she took action to stop a deranged person from killing innocents.
Fortunately it looks as if people took action and were able to take him down.
Agreed I don't think there will be backlash if that were to have happened.
William B.
01-08-11, 16:05
What about the fact that he had all these schizo/psycho sounding videos posted on the net? Think this could lead to more ammunition for the gov concerning their current quest to regulate the internet?
Some idiot already made an attempt to blame the Tea party due to rhetoric.
Deleted...
Heartland Hawk
01-08-11, 16:11
What about the fact that he had all these schizo/psycho sounding videos posted on the net? Think this could lead to more ammunition for the gov concerning their current quest to regulate the internet?
That's a consequence I hadn't thought of. But realistically what would be the focus of government's first move?
Heartland Hawk
01-08-11, 16:15
Some idiot already made an attempt to blame the Tea party due to rhetoric.
I heard this as well. Unfortunately, I knew this theory would be floated before it even was aired.:rolleyes:
This ABC report says that the Congresswoman took a shotgun blast to the head:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jared-lee-loughner-gabriel-giffords-suspected-shooter-identified/story?id=12572164
So were multiple firearms used?
pilotguyo540
01-08-11, 16:18
This ABC report says that the Congresswoman took a shotgun blast to the head:
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/jared-lee-loughner-gabriel-giffords-suspected-shooter-identified/story?id=12572164
So were multiple firearms used?
That has to be incorrect. Newsies are usually not gun people.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 16:20
Screen capture of his myspace http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5082/5337086764_4de868c256_o.jpg
Posted this image from Midway USA:
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/116453.jpg
William B.
01-08-11, 16:24
Screen capture of his myspace http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5082/5337086764_4de868c256_o.jpg
Posted this image from Midway USA:
http://media.midwayusa.com/ProductImages/Large/116453.jpg
That is pretty weird. So was this guy leaving himself myspace messages? Also, I noticed he had a link to a product at midwayusa.com in one of his posts. Wonder what that was?
I see you answered my question as I was posting it. Thanks!
Thomas M-4
01-08-11, 16:26
[QUOTE=Belmont31R;870857]Screen capture of his myspace http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5082/5337086764_4de868c256_o.jpg
He is a nut case for sure.
The news of the 9 year old girl breaks my heart.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 16:27
That is pretty weird. So was this guy leaving himself myspace messages? Also, I noticed he had a link to a product at midwayusa.com in one of his posts. Wonder what that was?
I see you answered my question as I was posting it. Thanks!
Yeah thats a Glock 30+ rd mag....
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 16:28
Supposedly someone who knew him personally: http://twitter.com/caitieparker
Paranoid schizophrenic, my guess. Off his meds.
Littlelebowski
01-08-11, 16:38
Supposedly someone who knew him personally: http://twitter.com/caitieparker
Describes the shooter as a left wing liberal radical. I wonder if anyone in this thread feels stupid yet.
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 16:43
Describes the shooter as a left wing liberal radical. I wonder if anyone in this thread feels stupid yet.
Twitter, the only newsource "Littlelebowski" takes seriously.:rolleyes:
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 16:45
Describes the shooter as a left wing liberal radical. I wonder if anyone in this thread feels stupid yet.
Maybe....
Daily Kos put out a "target list" in 2008 with this lady on it.
Who to primary? Well, I'd argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I've bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568
I think that he is so jacked up (based on the books and comments) that there probably isn't a clear picture of his political leanings.
Having said that he is a ****ing whackjob and it really doesn't matter. I wish that the Feds wouldn't have taken control. This way Arizona could throw the rope around his neck.
Describes the shooter as a left wing liberal radical. I wonder if anyone in this thread feels stupid yet.
Robb Jensen
01-08-11, 16:48
Twitter, the only newsource "Littlelebowski" takes seriously.:rolleyes:
LETS STOP WITH THE PERSONAL ATTACKS AND INSULTS OR THIS THREAD WILL BE VERY SHORT LIVED AND OFFENDING MEMBERS GIVEN INFRACTIONS.
...OR THIS THREAD WILL BE VERY SHORT LIVED...
Should be short lived anyway. Like a whirlwind of childish speculation.
RancidSumo
01-08-11, 16:58
I don't believe that it should be locked just because a few people can't keep their speculations in check. It has been a good source for actual news since it is easier to be able to check this thread than watch all news channels at once.
I think that he is so jacked up (based on the books and comments) that there probably isn't a clear picture of his political leanings.
Yeah...won't stop him being used for politics though.
After seeing some of the perp's posts on the myspace page and hearing some of the stuff ol' Shep was reading on Fox a little while ago, I can only come to one conclusion:
BATSHIT F'N CRAZY!
Anyone else remember when we kept psychotics like this guy institutionalized instead of letting them run free and trusting them to stay on their meds?
Instead of capital punishment for this nut, I'd rather he spends the rest of his days straightjacketed in a padded room being forced to listen to recordings of grammatically incorrect English 24/7 with no meds...
montanadave
01-08-11, 17:14
Should be short lived anyway. Like a whirlwind of childish speculation.
I have to agree. Until the authorities release some definitive evidence obtained from either interrogation of the shooter or his personal effects, the media are going to bombard us with a dog's breakfast of speculation as to the shooter's motivations gleaned from every hack on the planet with an undergraduate psychology degree, citing as "evidence" a couple of unintelligible YouTube videos, a MySpace page and the ramblings of every "fifteen minutes of fame" wannabe who can claim to have had a class or shared a beer with the shooter in the last 10 years.
Time to step back and wait for some facts.
Heartland Hawk
01-08-11, 17:14
I agree. What really gets my blood boiling is the news and political pundits attempting to hijack this event and turning it into their own political football.
My prayers are with all of the victims.
Christ... this is well beyond bad... I'm truly at a loss for appropriate words to describe it...
Yep, dead kids and all.
Regardless of motivation, here it comes.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 17:18
Looks like Mrs. Giffords will make it through this. Hopefully she will back in the House, and getting a standing ovation when she returns. I don't agree with all of her votes but she's still the elected representative of her district.
And yes the guy is bat shit insane. Im not so sure politics had anything to do with this but more of him just being certifiably crazy. He is really all over the place complaining about gold and silver, commie manifesto, government brainwashing, ect. After this guy is tried for his crimes he needs to be put down.
Cagemonkey
01-08-11, 17:25
Out on a limb and say some lib thought she wasn't liberal enough?We could only hope. Even so, if that ends up being the case, you can bet they'll cover up the political motive since it won't fit into the libs script.
Belmont31R
01-08-11, 17:36
We could only hope. Even so, if that ends up being the case, you can bet they'll cover up the political motive since it won't fit into the libs script.
As I posted earlier CNN and MSNBC almost immediately started in with the conservative bashing and gun culture of AZ. Going after the weapon used, bring up Palin's target list even though lefties do the same shit, and they both had her listed.
I don't really care if the dude was lefty or righty...he is not mentally all there. We can all bring up acts of violence committed by whackos on either side. Like the guy who flew the plane into the IRS building here, the subway shooter, ect. That all happened recently. Ill admit I can't stand how the left exploits these things for political benefit like this almost instantly blaming the Tea Party, Palin, guns, conservative states, ect. McVeigh is constantly brought up by them yet they completely forget about anything lefties have done. As soon as that IRS guy's letter came to light the matter was dropped, and 2 weeks later it was forgotten. I drive by that building 2-3X a week, and its still just a shell.
Anyways politics should not really have anything to do with these type of incidents because its pretty obvious it takes a pretty ****ing kooky person to do something like this, and is no way representative of either side's beliefs. Its not mainstream to either side of the spectrum.
The_War_Wagon
01-08-11, 17:46
J.W. Rawles has a couple of links at his Survivalblog site on this numbnut already - http://www.survivalblog.com/2011/01/the_twisted_world_of_jared_lee.html
Let's hope he becomes the Belle of the Ball at the Atlanta Pen in short order. :mad:
Cagemonkey
01-08-11, 18:00
As I posted earlier CNN and MSNBC almost immediately started in with the conservative bashing and gun culture of AZ. Going after the weapon used, bring up Palin's target list even though lefties do the same shit, and they both had her listed.
I don't really care if the dude was lefty or righty...he is not mentally all there. We can all bring up acts of violence committed by whackos on either side. Like the guy who flew the plane into the IRS building here, the subway shooter, ect. That all happened recently. Ill admit I can't stand how the left exploits these things for political benefit like this almost instantly blaming the Tea Party, Palin, guns, conservative states, ect. McVeigh is constantly brought up by them yet they completely forget about anything lefties have done. As soon as that IRS guy's letter came to light the matter was dropped, and 2 weeks later it was forgotten. I drive by that building 2-3X a week, and its still just a shell.
Anyways politics should not really have anything to do with these type of incidents because its pretty obvious it takes a pretty ****ing kooky person to do something like this, and is no way representative of either side's beliefs. Its not mainstream to either side of the spectrum.I agree with what you say. One tragedy has just occurred and another is soon to follow, ie political whirlwind. Unfortunately, perception is todays reality and the media dictates what is reality. The libs will get the upper hand on this story. Remember JFK begot the gun control act of 1968 and the attempt on Reagan lead to Sara Brady.
Business_Casual
01-08-11, 18:07
I think that elected officials will over-react to this and increase their personal security, to the point that they will become even more isolated and insulated from the general public.
This may be a key moment in the Republic.
B_C
This might explain a few things...
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7015/crazy1.png
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4558/crazy2b.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3705/crazy3.png
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3337/crazy4.png
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 18:11
I agree with what you say. One tragedy has just occurred and another is soon to follow, ie political whirlwind. Unfortunately, perception is todays reality and the media dictates what is reality. The libs will get the upper hand on this story. Remember JFK begot the gun control act of 1968 and the attempt on Reagan lead to Sara Brady.
Different era. Dems were running the house and most states, Heller hadn't hapened, we weren't organized and we didn't have the internet and alternative media growing by the day.
We are so much stronger now is isn't funny.
What did Columbine and Virginia Tech begat? Those were much worse than this.
Different era. Dems were running the house and most states, Heller hadn't hapened, we weren't organized and we didn't have the internet and alternative media growing by the day.
We are so much stronger now is isn't funny.
What did Columbine and Virginia Tech begat? Those were much worse than this.
Good points. My original fear when I saw the rounds expended was that it was an AR or similar. I'm afraid that our semi-auto rifles are still a little bit on the bubble.
In the annals of twitdom, Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords (Democrat, Arizona) must rank near the top for her question to General Petraeus about how he was planning to reduce carbon emissions in the War on Terror.
http://steve-rustad.blogs.petaluma360.com/10749/carbon-emissions-in-the-war-on-terror/
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-08-11, 18:40
The Brady Bunch was ready for this, are you?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/giffords-shooting-is-amer_b_806254.html
Robb Jensen
01-08-11, 18:42
This might explain a few things...
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7015/crazy1.png
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4558/crazy2b.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3705/crazy3.png
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3337/crazy4.png
I saw that on his YouTube channel. He's batshit crazy for sure.
Cagemonkey
01-08-11, 18:52
Different era. Dems were running the house and most states, Heller hadn't hapened, we weren't organized and we didn't have the internet and alternative media growing by the day.
We are so much stronger now is isn't funny.
What did Columbine and Virginia Tech begat? Those were much worse than this.
You make some good points. Still, Columbine and Virginia Tech weren't politicians.
variablebinary
01-08-11, 19:19
I'll wait 24hrs and wait for more details to appear.
Nearly everything you will hear over the next few hours will be bullshit, because in an effort to gain ratings, poorly researched facts will be put out there with no regard for truth.
Shock commentary (BAN GUNS!) will be the norm as well.
Its all about ratings and playing to base for the next 24 to 48 hours, then you'll have the real punditry on monday when the regular Fox, MSNBC and CNN programs get a chance to spout their bullshit.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-11, 19:36
Describes the shooter as a left wing liberal radical. I wonder if anyone in this thread feels stupid yet. Stupid, I don't know, this thing is just making my head hurt. I think any kind of rational explanation or reasoning we try to place on this guy is like picking animals out of cloud formations- we are trying to add order where there isn't any.
The Brady Bunch was ready for this, are you?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/giffords-shooting-is-amer_b_806254.html
Too many public officials have been killed and injured in this country in my lifetime -- nearly all of them by guns.
Actually, I can think of more senators and future pols that are killed by private planes than guns. The Kennedy's are even 2-2 snipers versus airplanes. Missouri's Caranahan right before an election, Wellstone during his term and Stevens after his term.
Suwannee Tim
01-08-11, 19:39
Looks like Mrs. Giffords will make it through this. Hopefully she will back in the House, and getting a standing ovation when she returns........
She might be able to get that ovation but she will not be her old self ever again. Injuries like this though survivable are devastating.
Fox News confirming Federal Judge John Rolls was shot and killed.
This is bad too. The assassination of a Federal Judge is a big, big deal. I wonder what he was doing there?
This punk kid has done so much damage. An absolute horror show travesty on every level.
montanadave
01-08-11, 20:38
This is bad too. The assassination of a Federal Judge is a big, big deal. I wonder what he was doing there?
According to comments by the Pima County Sheriff, Judge Roll was a personal friend of Representative Giffords and dropped by the event after attending mass at a church around the corner. Giffords is reported to have been the principal target and Judge Roll was, unfortunately, "in the wrong place at the wrong time."
That said, a lot of speculation based on limited preliminary facts and things are likely to remain fluid for quite some time.
This punk kid has done so much damage. An absolute horror show travesty on every level.
Exactly. A show.
To play on Americas unintelligent and childishly emotional, irrational population.
The Western world is very supportive of punishing the entire nation for the actions of one.
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 21:13
You make some good points. Still, Columbine and Virginia Tech weren't politicians.
Nope they were children.
These shootings just don't have the shock value they once did. Even les so after we watched people jump from two burning mega-skyscrapers.
Nothing will come of this. The Republicans control all of the committees by substantial margins. Also the most pro-gun House of Representatives likely since 1900.
Cagemonkey
01-08-11, 21:29
Nope they were children.
These shootings just don't have the shock value they once did. Even les so after we watched people jump from two burning mega-skyscrapers.
Nothing will come of this. The Republicans control all of the committees by substantial margins. Also the most pro-gun House of Representatives likely since 1900.
Hope your right.
Exactly. A show.
To play on Americas unintelligent and childishly emotional, irrational population.
I was obviously referring to the incident, not your slant on the media's portrayal. If you want to go so far out of context please use someone else's words.
But I do agree that will be a possible result, at least to some extent.
I was obviously referring to the incident, not your slant on the media's portrayal. If you want to go so far out of context please use someone else's words.
But I do agree that will be a possible result, at least to some extent.
I thought you said "An absolute horror show travesty on every channel",
I don't know how I got "channel" and "level" mixed up.
my bad.:laugh:
But still I'm right on what the media does when these events occur.
variablebinary
01-08-11, 22:09
On a side note, this political violence is not some sign of the times. Not even close.
It is nothing new at all in fact, and will happen again more than once in our lifetime. Elected officials have been killed before we were born, and will be killed after we are long dead and buried.
The media will spin this into something it is not to feed their agenda long before the facts are found.
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 22:15
Hope your right.
Hopes not necessary on this one. Not even close.
Describes the shooter as a left wing liberal radical. I wonder if anyone in this thread feels stupid yet.
Nope not at all... :) Still doesn't mean shit, I know about 15 people in my town alone that would be described as left wing radicals by a person from Arizona, or Wyoming and are the chapter leaders of the Tea Party here.
This guy was a receiving "messages" from something going on in his head. I wouldn't be surprised if it's aliens, but it doesn't change that what I stated is true. This congress person has suffered a lot for doing her job, and Palin had her on a list of enemies. You can't dispute that, and that was all I was saying, and all I am still saying.
Maybe we'll get some real answers in a few days.
Has anyone else heard anything regarding the second suspect they just started talking about???
On a side note, this political violence is not some sign of the times. Not even close.
It is nothing new at all in fact, and will happen again more than once in our lifetime. Elected officials have been killed before we were born, and will be killed after we are long dead and buried.
The media will spin this into something it is not to feed their agenda long before the facts are found.
Good point Variable.
I can tell you from my wife's work "after the holidays" party I just came from, that the media sure as hell spun the crap out of the civilian that may have returned fire. I literally heard: "And then all the people in the crown pulled out there guns and people just started shooting." Even heard: "And then, a nine year old girl was killed." basically implying a mad wild west style shoot out.
There were four gun owners in the room, and I'm just glad the CCW holder spoke up and said, "Well some of us are armed in this room."
I really don't think it will amount to any legislation though. It will probably just be used as more fodder for the people that already think guns are evil, and then the anger will fade away after a couple months.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-08-11, 22:27
Nope not at all... :) Still doesn't mean shit, I know about 15 people in my town alone that would be described as left wing radicals by a person from Arizona, or Wyoming and are the chapter leaders of the Tea Party here.
This guy was a receiving "messages" from something going on in his head. I wouldn't be surprised if it's aliens, but it doesn't change that what I stated is true. This congress person has suffered a lot for doing her job, and Palin had her on a list of enemies. You can't dispute that, and that was all I was saying, and all I am still saying.
Maybe we'll get some real answers in a few days.
Has anyone else heard anything regarding the second suspect they just started talking about???
I heard the Rep also voted against Pelosi, are you gonna sorta implicate her too?
Are you hoping the second perp fits your theories better?
Friends were late for lunch due to the traffic when this happened a few miles from my house. (That's my grocery store, where I shop weekly with my family.) He is a hospital psychologist--about ready for his 12 hour on-call shift maybe 4 miles from the crime scene--plenty liberal, and we always have genteel discussions about the 2A. We let the news stream while we ate. He responded to his wife that gun stores are obviously supposed to be able to screen out prospective gun buyers if they are on psych meds. Today was the one day I didn't feel on my game enough to be able to respond.
Thanks mods for keeping the crap out, but also for letting the thread go on. I certainly appreciate commentary I see here more than anywhere else. I've got plenty of friends with kids around 9 years old, and our facebooks loaded up. I won't go into more personal detail, but will say feelings are pretty intense in the community. Plenty of speculation, but fairly certain he had a 9mm Glock with the 30 round mag. My friend's wife was amazed such a thing existed for general public purchase.
Surfed through Fox News, where idiot Geraldo Rivera was bleating about "how could someone who is so crazy they believe that our currency should be backed by gold could get a gun"......
montanadave
01-08-11, 23:06
The nine-year-old girl murdered today, Christina Taylor Green, was recently elected to the student council at her elementary school and a neighbor took her to today's event to meet a real member of Congress. Christina was also featured in a book entitled Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11. The text with her photo reads "I hope you know all the words to the Star Spangled Banner and sing it with your hand over your heart. I hope you jump in rain puddles."
What a waste!
Meanwhile, the Washington Post is reporting the handgun used in today's massacre was a Glock 19 with "an extended clip" holding "about 30 rounds." The killer also had an additional extended mag as well as two 15 round mags in his possession. The pistol was purchased legally by the killer on Nov. 30, 2010, at a Sportsman's Warehouse in Tucson.
Those looking to exploit this senseless act for political purposes will not have to put much spin on this. Nineteen shot, six killed including a federal judge and a nine-year-old child, a mortally wounded member of Congress, and a whack job strolling into a shopping center with a semi-auto Glock and 90 rounds of ammo. I wouldn't be so quick to pooh-pooh the potential fallout.
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 23:10
Nope not at all... :) Still doesn't mean shit, I know about 15 people in my town alone that would be described as left wing radicals by a person from Arizona, or Wyoming and are the chapter leaders of the Tea Party here.
This guy was a receiving "messages" from something going on in his head. I wouldn't be surprised if it's aliens, but it doesn't change that what I stated is true. This congress person has suffered a lot for doing her job, and Palin had her on a list of enemies. You can't dispute that, and that was all I was saying, and all I am still saying.
Maybe we'll get some real answers in a few days.
Has anyone else heard anything regarding the second suspect they just started talking about???
More than Palin had her on the list of political enemies:
http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-3-05-33-pm.png
... and Palin had her on a list of enemies. You can't dispute that, and that was all I was saying, and all I am still saying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0YH6UQNbBo
Skip to 2:30 for the quote. Typical rhetoric on both sides. Stop helping 2A enemies from making their case.
Those looking to exploit this senseless act for political purposes will not have to put much spin on this. Nineteen shot, six killed including a federal judge and a nine-year-old child, a mortally wounded member of Congress, and a whack job strolling into a shopping center with a semi-auto Glock and 90 rounds of ammo. I wouldn't be so quick to pooh-pooh the potential fallout.
I agree.
This is going to be worse than most here realize.
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 23:14
The nine-year-old girl murdered today, Christina Taylor Green, was recently elected to the student council at her elementary school and a neighbor took her to today's event to meet a real member of Congress. Christina was also featured in a book entitled Faces of Hope: Babies Born on 9/11. The text with her photo reads "I hope you know all the words to the Star Spangled Banner and sing it with your hand over your heart. I hope you jump in rain puddles."
What a waste!
Meanwhile, the Washington Post is reporting the handgun used in today's massacre was a Glock 19 with "an extended clip" holding "about 30 rounds." The killer also had an additional extended mag as well as two 15 round mags in his possession. The pistol was purchased legally by the killer on Nov. 30, 2010, at a Sportsman's Warehouse in Tucson.
Those looking to exploit this senseless act for political purposes will not have to put much spin on this. Nineteen shot, six killed including a federal judge and a nine-year-old child, a mortally wounded member of Congress, and a whack job strolling into a shopping center with a semi-auto Glock and 90 rounds of ammo. I wouldn't be so quick to pooh-pooh the potential fallout.
How many magazine capacity bans did the Democratic controlled Judiary committee hear after VA TECH whe Cho used hi-caps and a Glock-19 to kill nearly three dozen people? How many bills did then Speaker Pelosi advance to the floor fo a vote? The same number that will come from Speaker Bohner and the Republican controlled House Judicary Committee and sub-committees. ZERO!
GermanSynergy
01-08-11, 23:19
I hope you're right.
How many magazine capacity bans did the Democratic controlled Judiary committee hear after VA TECH whe Cho used hi-caps and a Glock-19 to kill nearly three dozen people? How many bills did then Speaker Pelosi advance to the floor fo a vote? The same number that will come from Speaker Bohner and the Republican controlled House Judicary Committee and sub-committees. ZERO!
How many magazine capacity bans did the Democratic controlled Judiary committee hear after VA TECH whe Cho used hi-caps and a Glock-19 to kill nearly three dozen people? How many bills did then Speaker Pelosi advance to the floor fo a vote? The same number that will come from Speaker Bohner and the Republican controlled House Judicary Committee and sub-committees. ZERO!
That pales in comparison to the political traction this one is going to bring. That was a "person of color" lunatic, with no conservative connectible mutterings on the internet, who only shot nameless students.
No...this one is going to be different.
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 23:23
That pales in comparison to the political traction this one is going to bring. That was a "person of color" lunatic, with no conservative connectible mutterings on the internet, who only shot nameless students.
No...this one is going to be different.
If I had a nickel for every time someone told me the next shooting was going to be different. Someone always says that and it is forgotten after the whole thing dies down.
It will be over sooner, that is how it will be different. People are far more emotionally attached to what happens to almost three dozen kids than a politician.
Like I said, not even close to politically feasable. You just think it pales in comparison because it just happened and is still fresh in the news and in your face. Besides, Giffords was hit with the 1st shot. Capacity didn't matter there.
I will bet a large sum of cash if anyone wants to bet against me. We can arrange for a 3rd party to hold it in escrow.
D. Christopher
01-08-11, 23:26
Stupid, I don't know, this thing is just making my head hurt. I think any kind of rational explanation or reasoning we try to place on this guy is like picking animals out of cloud formations- we are trying to add order where there isn't any.
Actually, I can think of more senators and future pols that are killed by private planes than guns. The Kennedy's are even 2-2 snipers versus airplanes. Missouri's Caranahan right before an election, Wellstone during his term and Stevens after his term.
The Kennedy family have lost 3 to aircraft accidents (Joe 1944, Kate 1948, John Jr. 1999) and Ted was very nearly killed in a Aero Commander landing crash in 1964. That versus JFK killed by a sniper and RFK killed with a handgun. Statistically political assassinations by sniper are quite rare but in America where most people are educated by movies and television it is believed to be common. Unfortunately probably the two most well-known sniper assassinations happened here in the U.S. (JFK & MLK) These are also the only successful political assassinations by sniper in the last 60 years. (I realize MLK wasn't an elected official.)
Whether successful or not, the weapon used in the majority of assassination attempts worldwide is still the revolver/pistol, followed by SMG's, then explosives/car bombs/grenades/rockets.
Today's events are truly horrible and only made worse by politicians and the media playing it all for political advantage and ratings instead of trying to get the facts straight, and having no real concern for those whose lives have been affected by the actions of an individual with obvious mental problems. Very sad.
Yep, it will be over sooner. People are far more emotionally attached to what happens to kids.
Like I said, not even close to politically feasable. You just think it pales in comparison because it just happened and is still fresh in the news and in your face. Besides, Giffords was hit with the 1st shot. Capacity didn't matter there.
I will bet a large sum of cash if anyone wants to bet against me. We can arrange for a 3rd party to hold it in escrow.
Yeah.... I'm old enough that I remember gun people saying similar things in 68, 89, 94, etc.
I'm still going to write a couple extra checks.
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 23:27
I hope you're right.
Like I said last page. Hope isn't necessary in this case.
Heavy Metal
01-08-11, 23:29
Yeah.... I'm old enough that I remember gun people saying similar things in 68, 89, 94, etc.
I'm still going to write a couple extra checks.
What party was in charge of Congress in those years?
Most pro-gun congress in a hundred years sits right now.
Again, I am willing to put my money where my mouth is.
Anyways politics should not really have anything to do with these type of incidents because its pretty obvious it takes a pretty ****ing kooky person to do something like this, and is no way representative of either side's beliefs. Its not mainstream to either side of the spectrum.
Ditto
insane people do not have the mental capability to have a side ? they are way out their in their own world and are not right or left and are not part of the world we all live in you could say !
ThirdWatcher
01-09-11, 00:20
What a waste!
+1 The same words that always come to my mind when this type of stupidity occurs. :confused:
SeriousStudent
01-09-11, 00:20
Prayers sent for the fallen. May the Lord guide the healer's hands, so wounded pull through.
And may the murderer receive the full measure of justice.
Lots of disgust...
...disgust at what this scum bag did...
...disgust at the media and politicians smearing opponents over a tragedy before the bodies are even cold....
Thoughts and prayers for the victims and families.
ForTehNguyen
01-09-11, 00:32
if you watch his youtubes its just nonsensical rants not coherent to any particular party. His favorite books are the Communist Manifest and Mein Kampf. He lived near the shopping center while this happened. Also the fact that he shot others after the Congresswoman makes me believe she wasnt specifically targetted. Whole thing smells like target of opportunity. Guy just wanted some attention like all of these rampage shooters
Thomas M-4
01-09-11, 00:35
Nope they were children.
These shootings just don't have the shock value they once did. Even les so after we watched people jump from two burning mega-skyscrapers.
Nothing will come of this. The Republicans control all of the committees by substantial margins. Also the most pro-gun House of Representatives likely since 1900.
Thank you :thank_you2:
Really guys I can't see this threatening 2A.
Left wing nuts can scream all they want right now. I don't see them having the power to do anything about it other than making noise.
Incidences like this actually reinforce the need in many of us to arm ourselves in case we happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time like these poor victims today. This happened in the bright sunshine, with people all around, at the grocery store, a time when many may feel its Ok to be lazy and leave the ccw at home.
Yeah, I guess your right.
Just another congresswoman/federal judge/small child shooting by an anti government white guy with a high cap mag.....
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-11, 01:21
Since everyone is already talking policy, I don't think that there will be any real changes, but I do see the left/Brady Bunch adding provisions to every bill that they can and make people vote "for killer guns" time and again. Then take that record and in the next election cycle go to swing races and say that these people would be alive if it weren't for the Republicans rhetoric and votes against "common sense' gun laws. Going to be a lot of security video from a site like that and they are going to play it over and over until you think its Gettysburg. Just my guess as to how it plays out.
My selfish concern is that I use Safeways here in Denver, and I bet they get a no CCW policy now. This nut job is going to make me less safe.
I really want to know more about how the attack ended.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-11, 01:46
So what do you say. 100 large?
Is that a 100 Euros?
I'll amend my last post. If they pass anything it will be to make it harder for crazies to get guns- what that looks like I have no idea, since it won't work anyway.
I hope you're right.
He's absolutely right. No one in Congress right now is willing to commit political suicide by passing gun control legislation. The political fallout would be enormous.
Are we really betting now on gun control???
I'm going to bed... I've been accused of enough things today from short sighted people, I don't need to witness this.
Are we really betting now on gun control???
Nope.... just someone suggesting it.....
I'll amend my last post. If they pass anything it will be to make it harder for crazies to get guns- what that looks like I have no idea, since it won't work anyway.
Yeah.... that's what they pass every time.....
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 02:37
This is heartbreaking, and I'm afraid it will put American rights at risk. At least.
Though I must say, disagree if you like:
People with violent mental health history (poor wording: sorry) shouldn't be able to purchase a firearm.
Blame the shooter not the gun, the liberals will overlook the fact that a CCW holder was (from what little I know) the only reason we even caught this guy. If nobody had a gun, this guy would have gotten away.
But I ultimately think that the Republican party will find some way to logic (it's a verb now) this one out, and the Democrats will try to blame them, and say that their fighting for him.
It's darkest just before the dawn, this has only added to the realm of uncertainty that US politics.
People with violent mental health history (poor wording: sorry) shouldn't be able to purchase a firearm.
I'm pretty sure the suspected shooter so far hasn't shown to have a history of mental disease, as bat shit crazy as his online presence is.
What you're promoting is the ban of firearms from people who have suffered from PTSD, CSR and the like. Mental disorders can be hard to diagnose and many times miss diagnosed. So to take away some one's constitutional rights on a whim is pretty bat shit crazy in itself.
Now if some one is found to be insane by more than one evaluation than we can talk.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-11, 02:51
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/01/08/exp.az.zamudio.witness.cnn?hpt=T1
Interview with CCW holder who helped keep suspect pinned down after a couple of other people jumped shooter as he tried to reload. Best info on immediate aftermath of shooting, hopefully the lady and man who first jumped him will come forward soon with their stories.
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 03:38
I'm pretty sure the suspected shooter so far hasn't shown to have a history of mental disease, as bat shit crazy as his online presence is.
What you're promoting is the ban of firearms from people who have suffered from PTSD, CSR and the like. Mental disorders can be hard to diagnose and many times miss diagnosed. So to take away some one's constitutional rights on a whim is pretty bat shit crazy in itself.
Now if some one is found to be insane by more than one evaluation than we can talk.
I understand the risk, and all, but a lot of that is more an issue with the mental health care system, than the second amendment.
I understand that there are exceptions, but it's a problem that can be solved.
I don't support taking anybody's constitutional rights, but when potentially dealing with people's lives, I think the rules change when somebody is mentally unstable, or has a violent/illegal past.
QuickStrike
01-09-11, 04:58
Pro-gun and pro border security?
She's okay in my book. :(
Hopefully all who are affected heal quickly, and the other bastard who drove him is caught.
I hope nothing will come of this also. Every time a crazy-**** starts shooting innocents I fear for our 2nd amendment.
I'm going to have my quick say...
The situation is ****ed up, but what's truly ****ed is the fact that a 9 year old little girl has died yet her death has been dwarfed by the other victims.
9 ****ing years old, the little girl hasn't even had a chance to live, she was a child yet the news has mentioned hardly a word about it, including online. Pretty disturbing that we care more about Gabrielle Giffords (should make a recovery)and John Rolland who both had a chance at life while this child was robbed of hers.
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 06:54
Quoting myself here because there seems to be a full on attack against the Tea Party and Sarah Palin because of that map she made with Giffords being listed.
The libs are jumping at the bit playing this out being the fault of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. Real sick after something like this what they are doing. I woke up at 430 this morning to see Geraldo with so called experts talking shit about the Tea Party and blaming Palin because of her list she had. Both sides do this sorta thing with "hit lists".
Maybe....
Daily Kos put out a "target list" in 2008 with this lady on it.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 06:57
I'm going to have my quick say...
The situation is ****ed up, but what's truly ****ed is the fact that a 9 year old little girl has died yet her death has been dwarfed by the other victims.
9 ****ing years old, the little girl hasn't even had a chance to live, she was a child yet the news has mentioned hardly a word about it, including online. Pretty disturbing that we care more about Gabrielle Giffords (should make a recovery)and John Rolland who both had a chance at life while this child was robbed of hers.
Fox News talked about her for a bit already this morning. Sounds like the girl would have had a bright future.
Littlelebowski
01-09-11, 07:18
The Washington Post is trying desperately (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422.html?hpid=topnews) to cast this shooting as political. Disgusting.
Anyone got a screen shot of the Kos hit list?
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 07:20
See it's republicans fault even though dems make the same lists and maps. Or the dem senator a few weeks ago talking about pitchforks. Really makes me mad people are turning this political and attacking political opponents blaming them.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/40981503
The Washington Post is trying desperately (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422.html?hpid=topnews) to cast this shooting as political. Disgusting.
Anyone got a screen shot of the Kos hit list?
It was lower in this thread.
The Washington Post is trying desperately (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/08/AR2011010802422.html?hpid=topnews) to cast this shooting as political. Disgusting.
Anyone got a screen shot of the Kos hit list?
Note the "target" before the list and "bullseye" after the list...
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q116/bridoyal/dailykostargetlist.png
Suwannee Tim
01-09-11, 08:18
Jonah Goldberg at NRO (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/220680/emotional-vampirism/jonah-goldberg)
Writing about the Virginia Tech massacre but fully applicable to Tuscon.
...just another 32 innocent kids...
While a very disturbing tragedy, most were 18 or older. Just because someone attends college does not make them a "kid".
Heartland Hawk
01-09-11, 08:26
I've had Fox News on running in the background all morning. they have been talking about the other victims and the 9 year old, and showing her picture. What a waste.
I have purposely avoided the CNN's, and MSNBC's for fear that it will further infuriate me. I have a lot of friends in that area, and they are pretty much dumbfounded. I think a lot of people are still trying to get their head around this. I also think that its human nature to try to assign blame or find an explanation to something like this. It's comforting to the mind (this doesn't include the political rhetoric).
I need to make this perfectly clear, everyone is getting a little too personal and the challenges for bets against one another is prima facie evidence.
Stop that kind of thing, and discussions will have a much longer shelf life here.
If I need to make another post like this one, some people won't be here to continue the discussion. I hope I'm clear.
Business_Casual
01-09-11, 08:33
Congress has suspended normal business next week "to deal with this tragedy" including tabling the repeal of health care.
Clyburn and other Dems are calling for special treatment for congress in airports because of this.
B_C
Congress has suspended normal business next week "to deal with this tragedy" including tabling the repeal of health care.
Clyburn and other Dems are calling for special treatment for congress in airports because of this.
B_C
Congress wants special treatment? Shocking. How about we treat everyone the same, and allow everyone nationwide ccw, that would help a lot with security.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/01/08/exp.az.zamudio.witness.cnn?hpt=T1
Interview with CCW holder who helped keep suspect pinned down after a couple of other people jumped shooter as he tried to reload. Best info on immediate aftermath of shooting, hopefully the lady and man who first jumped him will come forward soon with their stories.
Good interview.
Good read on the media on this issue:
http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/01/09/the-media-the-shooter/
montanadave
01-09-11, 08:42
And right on cue:
THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER -- 6 DEAD!
God appointed this rod for your sins! God sent the shooter! This hateful nation unleashed violent veterans on the servants of God at WBC--hoping to silence our kind warning to obey God and flee the wrath to come.
Your federal judge is dead and your (fag-promoting, baby-killing, proud-sinner) Congresswoman fights for her life. God is avenging Himself on this rebellious house! WBC prays for your destruction--more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner--all. Your doom is upon you!
Courtesy of the good folks at the Westboro Baptist Church. :(
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 08:52
...
Oh my God. Did I really just ****ing read that?
How are the girl's parents? Does anybody know her name?
I hope they can recover as much as possible. They have my prayers.
...
Oh my God. Did I really just ****ing read that?
How are the girl's parents? Does anybody know her name?
I hope they can recover as much as possible. They have my prayers.
Christina Green. Fox News is currently interviewing the mother, and she was an amazing kid by all accounts. Proud to have been born on 9-11, the only girl on the boys softball team, and so on. A very bright and thoughtful child whose life was cut short by a selfish scum bag.
Magic_Salad0892
01-09-11, 09:07
Jesus Christ.
My prayers for the girl.
May he live forever, in shame, and guilt.
More on the girl: she was the granddaughter of MLB coach and player Dallas Green. She was elected to the student council in her school, and that is part of the reason why she was at this event, her interest in politics. And one correction on my previous post, she played little league, not softball. She was the only girl on a boys little league team. She was featured in a book titled "Faces of Hope, Babies born on 9-11." Her mother said she liked to tell people she was born on a holiday. The mother said she tried to explain to her what 9-11 was, and it wasn't really a holiday, but the girl said it still was because it was a day of hope, and people coming together. We lost a jewel yesterday, no doubt.
pilotguyo540
01-09-11, 09:31
And right on cue:
THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER -- 6 DEAD!
God appointed this rod for your sins! God sent the shooter! This hateful nation unleashed violent veterans on the servants of God at WBC--hoping to silence our kind warning to obey God and flee the wrath to come.
Your federal judge is dead and your (fag-promoting, baby-killing, proud-sinner) Congresswoman fights for her life. God is avenging Himself on this rebellious house! WBC prays for your destruction--more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner--all. Your doom is upon you!
Courtesy of the good folks at the Westboro Baptist Church. :(
ERRRR! These ****tards have me growling at my screen!
If it happened to them, would it be God's retribution?
If it happened to them, would it be God's retribution?
Logic and reason are irrelevant when discussing this group. Trying to make sense of anything they think or say is pointless.
pilotguyo540
01-09-11, 10:00
Logic and reason are irrelevant when discussing this group. Trying to make sense of anything they think or say is pointless.
You are absolutely correct. They caught me before coffee.
I am so ashamed :(
I wonder how often these types of incidents will occur in the future and how common place they'll become with our current political, social & economic climate?
Many people have lost their jobs, their insurance for psych meds, their family homes and a lot of people are hitting rock bottom. Many of the people who are affected the most don't have the resources to pull themselves out of the tailspin they're in and will lash out at the people whom they deem responsible for their plight.
There are also people who will be encouraged and inspired by this guy's actions and they will want to emulate him in short order. Personally, I see things like this happening with more frequency in the not too distant future.
Yeah, your thought smacks of that theme in certain survivalist fiction; but for goodness' sake, this is America, freedom's last stand. What is encouraging is that this event may inspire more lawful people to carry concealed, especially in AZ where you no longer are required to be licensed to do so. We will not stop shopping locally or taking our kids in public or going to political events. We will not allow the deeds of evil men to take away our liberties. We will not burn books because they supposedly inspire the insane to do evil. We will not give in. We will not give up. Ever. But if Safeway hangs a "no guns" sign, I will switch to Frye's.
Outlander Systems
01-09-11, 11:40
I wonder how often these types of incidents will occur in the future and how common place they'll become with our current political, social & economic climate?
When people lose everything...they lose it.
These are not the most tumultuous economic/political times of our history, yet these events have been rare. See no reason for that to change.
Heavy Metal
01-09-11, 11:59
While a very disturbing tragedy, most were 18 or older. Just because someone attends college does not make them a "kid".
According to the standards of Obamacare, anyone under 25 is now a child.
According to the standards of Obamacare, anyone under 25 is now a child.
18 is legally an adult, despite Obama's Administrative idiocy.
Heavy Metal
01-09-11, 12:03
I hear the lefties still crying about Palin, the target and her "Don't retreat! RELOAD!" comment.
They seem to forget who made this statement:
If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun
http://wizbangblog.com/images/2011/01/the_ever_changing_meme_on_the_rep_gabrielle_gifford_shooting/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-9-37-39-pm1.jpg
LowSpeed_HighDrag
01-09-11, 12:03
I wonder how often these types of incidents will occur in the future and how common place they'll become with our current political, social & economic climate?
Many people have lost their jobs, their insurance for psych meds, their family homes and a lot of people are hitting rock bottom. Many of the people who are affected the most don't have the resources to pull themselves out of the tailspin they're in and will lash out at the people whom they deem responsible for their plight.
There are also people who will be encouraged and inspired by this guy's actions and they will want to emulate him in short order. Personally, I see things like this happening with more frequency in the not too distant future.
I think these incidents will be rare, and I certainly hope so, because there is a climate of change in the congress right now. The climate feels like it may be for the better, but if the republicans let the populace down, then I can see people losing all hope and going to extremes.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with blood of patriots and tyrants"-This is certainly a tricky quote for times today. In some people's minds, they are patriots trying to steer our country back on track, and like Loughten said, calling him a terrorist is simply ad hominem. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
Do I agree with what he did? **** no, it was senseless and tragic. We live in the era of information, and the more our politicians try to hide their wrongdoings in secrecy, the more it comes to light. Eventually, the American populace will vote out the weeds of government. But what if they dont?
SW-Shooter
01-09-11, 12:07
Here's the shooter's youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/2/PnNx0WThoF0
The guy is loony tunes. I wasn't surprised to find out he is a left winger.
I understand the risk, and all, but a lot of that is more an issue with the mental health care system, than the second amendment.
I understand that there are exceptions, but it's a problem that can be solved.
I don't support taking anybody's constitutional rights, but when potentially dealing with people's lives, I think the rules change when somebody is mentally unstable, or has a violent/illegal past.
And that is the current law.
Here's the shooter's youtube channel.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10#p/a/u/2/PnNx0WThoF0
The guy is loony tunes. I wasn't surprised to find out he is a left winger.
As has been said here, he doesn't fit the mold of a right or left winger, he's just freakin crazy.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with blood of patriots and tyrants"-This is certainly a tricky quote for times today. In some people's minds, they are patriots trying to steer our country back on track, and like Loughten said, calling him a terrorist is simply ad hominem. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
While I hope that other incidents like this don't come to fruition I believe there's a lot of merit to your statement.
PrivateCitizen
01-09-11, 12:19
FBI Director Mueller: "Glock 9mm" was the weapon used.
Sheriff: shooter was trying to reload when subdued by bystanders. One injured was woman trying to subdue.
Sheriff=Doddering old fool
He not only hates the Second Amendment, he also expressed his disdain for the First Amendment.
What an outrage that an elected law enforcement official would make the kind of statements he does.
I do sadly think we are going to see more of this and worse !!
as others have said and I have said he is crazy he fits no mold ?
the lefties next door to me and down the road are nice people and would never do this !
the very conservative types like myself and my friends never would have done this !
the danger of calling for violence like the left has with Van Jones and others is that the crazies on that side might take it literally and actually do the violence ?
but the same goes for the right !
the question would then be for those like VJ calling for violence:
are they happy now or do they want more ?
these are the people that are the real danger to our country cause like the nut jobs that listen to cult leaders and do mass suicides on someones word
these nuts will carry out things that leaders say !!!!
and that sadly will be a problem on the left or right !
so this is why its so important for either side to not call for this kind of stuff and I think why many on the right are not calling for violence ever !
... I have nothing really to add about the shooter or the victims.
I agree that 2A will likely be safe, but the other side WILL use this tragedy as leverage in other ways. For one thing, the anti-gun rhetoric will gin up additional generic support for the left among the true believers on the anti side. Also, I see the potential for fallout in the 1A arena. "Fairness Doctrine" will come back into the public lexicon, I reckon, since the blame is already being laid at the feet of Palin and Beck.
I don't see the fairness doctrine thing going ver far anyway, either, by the way. Still, the increased noise will be geared towards marginalizing Beck, Palin, and anybody else who might be viewed as an unofficial "leader" (for lack of a better term) of the burgeoning Tea Party movement. This is a tactic right out of the leftist playbook.
RancidSumo
01-09-11, 12:58
Sheriff=Doddering old fool
He not only hates the Second Amendment, he also expressed his disdain for the First Amendment.
What an outrage that an elected law enforcement official would make the kind of statements he does.
I didn't see what he said. Got a link?
I didn't see what he said. Got a link?
No, I was just watching the news conference.
While I agree there is little chance of this causing a major threat to 2A, you never know what hell may be spawned out of tragedy. Sarah Brady should be enough proof of that.
I didn't see what he said. Got a link?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccY9lNRiUWg
I didn't see what he said. Got a link?
Here's a couple quotes from the news conference.
Dupnik decries Arizona gun laws. "We're the tombstone of the United States of America. ...I have never been a proponent of letting everybody in this state to carry weapons whenever they want and that's almost where we are." He said the Arizona Legislature "is proposing students and teachers be able to carry weapons. ...Colleges should be run by college presidents, not the Arizona Legislature."
"When the rhetoric about hatred ... about mistrust of government" gets heated, Dupnik says, it inflames "the public 24 hours a day, seven days a week." Dupnik says that "has impact on people, especially those who are unbalanced personalities to begin with."
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/01/gabrielle-giffords-shooting-sheriff/1
Does anyone know if the assailant had a CCW?
montanadave
01-09-11, 13:10
With all the rampant speculation as to Jared Loughner's motivations, consider this:
Representative Giffords is Jewish, voted for the Dream Act last December, and opposed Arizona SB 1070.
Meanwhile, Loughner listed Mein Kamph as one of his favorite books, Loughner speaks disparagingly of "illiterates" (presumably referring to illegals) in his congressional district in one of his YouTube ramblings, and reportedly has some ties with a white nationalist group called American Renaissance (referenced multiple times in MySpace and YouTube postings).
Loughner may just be another disenfranchised, angry, white kid who drank his fill of neo-nazi, white supremacy filth, bought a gun, and went out to kill an illegal alien-lovin' Jew (in his mind).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccY9lNRiUWg
That was the earlier news conference. Not that he doesn't spout off his senile political rantings every chance he gets...
Does anyone know if the assailant had a CCW?
AZ doesn't require them to carry CCW.
AH ok.
Well, he is a leftist hero now, and is lovingly referred to by them as the "anti-Arpaio."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_yEiWrRsv4
AH ok.
Well, he is a leftist hero now, and is lovingly referred to by them as the "anti-Arpaio."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_yEiWrRsv4
Yeah, he's pro-illegal alien and anti-gun.
Heartland Hawk
01-09-11, 13:51
Yeah, he's pro-illegal alien and anti-gun.
I wonder how all of this will bode for him come re-election time...
AZ doesn't require them to carry CCW.
Oh yeah, I forgot they had changed that recently.
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 14:05
2nd suspect has come forward, and been cleared of any involvement. He was the cab driver who took the shooter to the scene. Laughner gave him a 20 for the cab ride, and he went into the store to make change.
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 15:16
Federal charges have been filed against Laughner.
FBI says he is refusing to talk to them.
Letter found in safe at his home says he planned ahead.
Also had a letter from Giffords thanking him for coming to an event in 2007.
woodandsteel
01-09-11, 15:47
Federal charges have been filed against Laughner.
FBI says he is refusing to talk to them.
Letter found in safe at his home says he planned ahead.
Also had a letter from Giffords thanking him for coming to an event in 2007.
I wonder if any of those charges will bring the death penalty? Listening to the so called experts on the radio, they mentioned a Federal Death Penatly could only come about if the Federal Judge was specifically targeted, in regards to his official duty.
I also wonder who'd do a better job prosecuting this case. The Feds or the state of Arizona?
variablebinary
01-09-11, 16:01
Liberal turds make me sicks.
Where was all the calls to "turn it down" when movies like "Death of a President" were being made in 2006, and GWB was under contstant verbal threats by the Daily KOS, huffington post and MSNBC.
The only thing shocking about this shooting is that events like it don't happen more often. Pick up a history book and see that violence in politics is part of the American landscape. Always has been and always will be.
Furthermore, all signs point to this not being a political hit, but just a kook on the loose. I'd be cautious about trying to tie the advancement of any agenda to a lunatic.
With all the rampant speculation as to Jared Loughner's motivations, consider this:
Representative Giffords is Jewish, voted for the Dream Act last December, and opposed Arizona SB 1070.
Meanwhile, Loughner listed Mein Kamph as one of his favorite books, Loughner speaks disparagingly of "illiterates" (presumably referring to illegals) in his congressional district in one of his YouTube ramblings, and reportedly has some ties with a white nationalist group called American Renaissance (referenced multiple times in MySpace and YouTube postings).
Loughner may just be another disenfranchised, angry, white kid who drank his fill of neo-nazi, white supremacy filth, bought a gun, and went out to kill an illegal alien-lovin' Jew (in his mind).
He was a kooky kid with kooky affiliations.
He listed LOTS of books as his favorite, including those of Karl Marx. Would that make him a National Socialist and a Communist?
I don't think Giffords being Jewish had any bearing. I think he chose an "accessible politician" and that was that. He shot everyone he could, white kids included. Had he been racially motivated that is the last thing he would have done is shot white children as racists see them as the most important thing.
Additionally, illiterates did not mean "illegals", he considered himself a grammar expert and decried the state of literacy among his generation. So while he many not have been a Nazi, seems he was a Grammar Nazi.
I also think looking for rational motivations is going to prove as pointless in this case as it was in the Hinkley case.
Yeah, he's pro-illegal alien and anti-gun.
Any links?
montanadave
01-09-11, 16:17
I wonder if any of those charges will bring the death penalty? Listening to the so called experts on the radio, they mentioned a Federal Death Penatly could only come about if the Federal Judge was specifically targeted, in regards to his official duty.
I also wonder who'd do a better job prosecuting this case. The Feds or the state of Arizona?
The federal complaint alleges five counts against Loughner:
COUNT 1
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did attempt to kill Gabrielle Giffords, a Member of Congress; in violation of Title 18, United States Code Section 351(c).
COUNT 2
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did unlawfully kill Gabriel Zimmerman, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1111.
COUNT 3
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did unlawfully kill John M. Roll, a U. S. District Court Judge for the District of Arizona, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1111.
COUNT 4
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did, with intent to kill, attempt to kill Pamela Simon, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1113.
COUNT 5
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did, with intent to kill, attempt to kill Ron Barber, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1113.
Loughner will make an initial appearance on the complaint at 2 p.m. Mountain time Monday, Jan. 10, 2011, in front of U.S. Magistrate Judge Lawrence Anderson at the Sandra Day O’Connor Courthouse in Phoenix in courtroom 302. He is entitled to a preliminary hearing and a detention hearing. The court will set a date for both hearings. Loughner remains in federal custody.
The Rules of Criminal Procedure require that a grand jury review the evidence and issue an indictment within 30 days of the defendant's initial appearance.
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Arizona is in the process of drafting an indictment against Loughner for presentation to the grand jury.
Title 18 of the United States Code Section 1111 does provide for either the death penalty or life imprisonment, provided the accused is convicted of first degree (i.e. premeditated) murder.
woodandsteel
01-09-11, 16:34
The federal complaint alleges five counts against Loughner:
COUNT 1
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did attempt to kill Gabrielle Giffords, a Member of Congress; in violation of Title 18, United States Code Section 351(c).
COUNT 2
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did unlawfully kill Gabriel Zimmerman, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1111.
COUNT 3
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did unlawfully kill John M. Roll, a U. S. District Court Judge for the District of Arizona, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1111.
COUNT 4
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did, with intent to kill, attempt to kill Pamela Simon, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1113.
COUNT 5
On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did, with intent to kill, attempt to kill Ron Barber, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1113.
Loughner will make an initial appearance on the complaint at 2 p.m. Mountain time Monday, Jan. 10, 2011, in front of U.S. Magistrate Judge Lawrence Anderson at the Sandra Day O’Connor Courthouse in Phoenix in courtroom 302. He is entitled to a preliminary hearing and a detention hearing. The court will set a date for both hearings. Loughner remains in federal custody.
The Rules of Criminal Procedure require that a grand jury review the evidence and issue an indictment within 30 days of the defendant's initial appearance.
The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Arizona is in the process of drafting an indictment against Loughner for presentation to the grand jury.
Title 18 of the United States Code Section 1111 does provide for either the death penalty or life imprisonment, provided the accused is convicted of first degree (i.e. premeditated) murder.
Wow, that was a lot more than I got from the news.
Thanks.
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 16:58
Liberal turds make me sicks.
Where was all the calls to "turn it down" when movies like "Death of a President" were being made in 2006, and GWB was under contstant verbal threats by the Daily KOS, huffington post and MSNBC.
The only thing shocking about this shooting is that events like it don't happen more often. Pick up a history book and see that violence in politics is part of the American landscape. Always has been and always will be.
Furthermore, all signs point to this not being a political hit, but just a kook on the loose. I'd be cautious about trying to tie the advancement of any agenda to a lunatic.
You're only heating up the rhetoric if you're a conservative or right leaning. Its ok for Olberman to go on long winded angry rants about Bush, calling him a liar, war criminal, and mentally deranged, ect. Thats just being "truthful". Target lists of politicians is ok for the DNC and Daily KOS but Palin does it and every crime in the US is her fault along with Glenn Beck.
At least the father of the little girl said he didn't want his daughters death to be used for agenda pushing or an excuse for more restrictions like what happened after 9/11. He just lost his little girl, and he has more righteousness than all these people using the shooting for political gain while the blood was still warm.
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 17:14
With all the rampant speculation as to Jared Loughner's motivations, consider this:
Representative Giffords is Jewish, voted for the Dream Act last December, and opposed Arizona SB 1070.
Meanwhile, Loughner listed Mein Kamph as one of his favorite books, Loughner speaks disparagingly of "illiterates" (presumably referring to illegals) in his congressional district in one of his YouTube ramblings, and reportedly has some ties with a white nationalist group called American Renaissance (referenced multiple times in MySpace and YouTube postings).
Loughner may just be another disenfranchised, angry, white kid who drank his fill of neo-nazi, white supremacy filth, bought a gun, and went out to kill an illegal alien-lovin' Jew (in his mind).
The head of this group said he is not and never was a member of their organization, and basically DHS is trying to tie them to this event somehow like how Clinton tried to tie McVeigh to the Michigan Militia which turned out to be false as well.
Belmont31R
01-09-11, 17:22
Here are some emails from someone was in a class with Laughner before he was kicked out...
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/jared-loughners-behavior-recor.html?hpid=topnews
Just like the VT shooter this guy was throwing up red flags all over the place.
I wonder how all of this will bode for him come re-election time...
He's been shooting his mouth off for years.
Any links?
Sure.
Besides his moronic comments over this incident, he's been on record for more gun control for years, including his opposition to the AWB sunset.
But Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik disagrees. He feels lifting this ban poses a real threat to everyone. "I think they present a real hazard to people in this country and especially to police officers whom I have a responsibility to protect."
Sheriff Dupnik adds, now that the ban is lifted, it'll be hard to reverse the effects already taking place. "It's too late. Once the ban expires the market is going to be flooded and it's going to be very difficult to go back and undo what's been done."
http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=2320598&nav=14RSR4k6
He was the media darling after AZ passed their illegal alien law.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/item/arizona-sheriff-clarence-dupnik-wont-enforce-immigration-law/
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_25ec5cdc-52fe-11df-8063-001cc4c03286.html
The Google will bring up plenty more about Dupnik if you're really interested.....
parishioner
01-09-11, 18:15
At least the father of the little girl said he didn't want his daughters death to be used for agenda pushing or an excuse for more restrictions like what happened after 9/11. He just lost his little girl, and he has more righteousness than all these people using the shooting for political gain while the blood was still warm.
Exactly. The dad just had his daughter brutally killed and is still able to recognize this is an "incident" and that this is just the price we sometimes have to pay to live in a free society.
America is not a "crossroads" and if I have to read another article talking about how America needs to take a deep look at itself, I might lose it.
And why haven't we heard anything from the parents of this nut? They are usually one of the first interviewed. I have a feeling they are probably a little nutty themselves but that doesn't want to be reported because it wont coincide with the bullcrap the media is pushing.
Heartland Hawk
01-09-11, 18:28
He's been shooting his mouth off for years.
Sure.
Besides his moronic comments over this incident, he's been on record for more gun control for years, including his opposition to the AWB sunset.
He was the media darling after AZ passed their illegal alien law.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/video/item/arizona-sheriff-clarence-dupnik-wont-enforce-immigration-law/
http://azstarnet.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_25ec5cdc-52fe-11df-8063-001cc4c03286.html
The Google will bring up plenty more about Dupnik if you're really interested.....
Wow. I had no idea. Why do the residents of the county put up with him then?
Wow. I had no idea. Why do the residents of the county put up with him then?
He's been the Sheriff for over 30 years. With all of the political favors a Sheriff can do, unseating one after that many years is next to impossible.
montanadave
01-09-11, 20:23
Deleted
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-09-11, 20:34
Gun and speech control on the docket...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html)
Pennsylvania Rep. Robert Brady, a Democrat from Philadelphia, told CNN that he also plans to take legislative action. He will introduce a bill that would make it a crime for anyone to use language or symbols that could be seen as threatening or violent against a federal official, including a member of Congress.
I'd actually like to see the language of that bill, just as an excercise into the reading of the mind of these lefty mental midgets.
Isn't that already illegal- in that you can't make threats against some, especially an offical? The secret sevice better staff up if they are going to go after every blogger that basically says anything about defeating an incumbent.
GermanSynergy
01-09-11, 21:03
I'm sure it'll only apply to Republicans.
Gun and speech control on the docket...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html)
I'd actually like to see the language of that bill, just as an excercise into the reading of the mind of these lefty mental midgets.
Isn't that already illegal- in that you can't make threats against some, especially an offical? The secret sevice better staff up if they are going to go after every blogger that basically says anything about defeating an incumbent.
Gun and speech control on the docket...
While I agree that they might have a hard time passing a substantial gun control bill, make no mistake that that's exactly what their plan is following this tragedy. Introduce one and them demonize those who oppose it.
Trust me, the left is nowhere near being above using this for their own benefit.
Heavy Metal
01-09-11, 22:51
McCarthy has introduced this exact same crap every year since the AWB expired.
If you look at the comments section on that Politico article, McCarthy is getting royally SLAMMED! And Politico is not a right-wig site by any stretch.
Bolt_Overide
01-09-11, 23:45
Nothing good will come of this.
Regardless of the mans political leanings the anti's will do their best to make hay from this.
McCarthy has introduced this exact same crap every year since the AWB expired.
Yup. And it's just another mass murder involving a crazy white guy with hi caps, a congresswoman and a federal judge.....
Same ole, same ole.....
If you look at the comments section on that Politico article, McCarthy is getting royally SLAMMED! And Politico is not a right-wig site by any stretch.
Thank God some pro gun folks are posting in the comments section. That ought to nip that in the bud right now!
Heavy Metal
01-10-11, 00:09
Yup. And it's just another mass murder involving a crazy white guy with hi caps, a congresswoman and a federal judge.....
Same ole, same ole.....
Yep, same ole Democrat controlled house gonna ban em just like they did two years ago after nearly three dozen college kids were same ole same ole agained like the last time......oh wait....
Yep, same ole Democrat controlled house gonna ban em just like they did two years ago after nearly three dozen college kids were same ole same ole agained like the last time......oh wait....
They aren't going to ban anything.
They're going to create more and more "prohibited persons" laws until everybody in the US is prohibited from owning a firearm.
Received medicine for depression? PROHIBITED
Received medicine for a physical injury? PROHIBITED
Arrested but not convicted? PROHIBITED
got a traffic ticket? PROHIBITED
got into a fist fight? PROHIBITED
yelled at anybody? PROHIBITED
said you don't like the police or some politicians? PROHIBITEDx100^10
A baby is born, if it cries.....PROHIBITED
If the law can't take away the firearms, then they will prohibit you from owning one.
Yep, same ole Democrat controlled house gonna ban em just like they did two years ago after nearly three dozen college kids were same ole same ole agained like the last time......oh wait....
Yup....nothing came out of that..........oh wait........
The massacre prompted the state of Virginia to close legal loopholes that had previously allowed Cho, an individual adjudicated as mentally unsound, to purchase handguns without detection by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). It also led to passage of the first major federal gun control measure in more than 13 years. The law strengthening the NICS was signed by President George W. Bush on January 5, 2008.[10]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
46 republicans voted for the AWB. It would not have passed without them.
When it did pass, after failing once, lots of guys I knew in other states, that had poo pooed it passing, had that deer in the headlights look.
Belmont31R
01-10-11, 00:37
I think all these lefties are lashing out so bad because of the Nov elections. They have nothing other than this, and trying to pin it on the right to try and gain back something.
Just so happens they go their golden egg with a wacko trying to kill a democrat representative...never mind the fact the chief justice of the fed courts in Tuscon was killed as well as a little girl. That chief justice was a republican.
Again Im pretty pissed off about this turning political right off the bat. I really hope the American people can see what is going on here, and that the left is trying to use the deaths of these people (both republicans and democrats) for their own agendas.
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