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View Full Version : AAR: VSM 1 Day Carbine Jan 8th 2011



kwelz
01-09-11, 10:48
VSM: 1 day basic carbine class.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=68070
December 11th 2010
Main Instructor: Joe Barnsfather assisted by Barry Foster.
Range: Knob Creek
Total in attendance: 12 + instructors


Range conditions:
Cold. And by cold I mean freeze your toes, fingers, and balls off cold. There was a light dusting of snow and it slick in many parts of the range. This is where gear and clothing selection is important. If you don’t have warm enough clothing or good footwear you are not going to have a good day in these conditions.


Weapons:
Everyone at the range was shooting AR pattern weapons but there were numerous configurations present. All were quality gear, and many had been built or worked on by Joe Barnsfather at Superior Firearms.

Everything was represented from a Basic Carbine with just irons to a SPR setup using a Variable power scope.

Issues:
There were only 3 weapons problems that day, one with a Primary weapon and two with secondary weapons. One gentleman, who I will now always refer to as Mr. Malfunction had his primary go down while we were checking Zero. He then switched to a backup carbine and had issues with that, but he was able to resolve them with some assistance from the instructors. He also had a doublefeed on his secondary during transitions. I will let him fill in the details if he wants later.

I had problems with my secondary. Part of this was a Zeroing issue and part of it was trigger issue. While using gloved I had the trigger hang up a few times. I have decided to switch back to the M&P platform. It just fits me better.

The important lesson here is that you need to make sure your gear is ready before a class. I missed the first drill of the afternoon portion of the class because I was switching out my secondary, and the other gentleman missed a portion of the morning because he was fixing his gear.


Class:
Much like last months Pistol Class this class was a basic class. It wasn’t about knocking down doors or doing flips while throwing axes. It was about the fundamentals of the defensive use of a carbine. As such we often stopped shooting and had discussions on the importance of what we were doing. In my not so humble opinion I feel that this was as important as the shooting portion of class.

The class started off with us zeroing our weapons.
We went prone at 50 yards. (Thanks Joe and Barry for making 50 yards under cover). About half the class had to adjust their Zero but overall it took minimal time.

We then proceeded in closer to the target and really got to work. A good portion early class was spent discussing and practicing Hold Over at various ranges. This seemed to become the theme of the class. And there were a few of us who had problems with it. I was consistently hitting about an inch low for about half of the class. Not because I didn’t understand holdover but because when engaging fast on the target my instinct is to put the dot on the middle of the target and engage. This is one of those training scars I need to get rid of. Mr. Barnsfather always says that if you do something wrong 1000 times you need to do it right 1001 times correct to fix it in your head.

One thing that was mentioned not only here but also throughout the day is how important accuracy is. If you can’t hit the target you are aiming at then you are better off not even trying. Every round is a liability and has the chance to take a life. It had better be the life you intend to take.

We moved on to reloading drills and also discussed the importance of knowing where your mags are. This is something I feel a lot of instructors overlook. You should always reload from the same place. You want to build muscle memory so that in a high stress situation, you can do it without thinking. Part of this is making sure you rotate your mags up when you get a chance.
So if you reload and then have a lull in the fight you will want to move your next full mag up to where you are going to reload from.

Another point that was discussed was not mixing full and partial mags. I know there is some debate on this and I am not sure where I personally come in on it since I don’t have enough experience. However at this point I follow the guidance of my instructor, which is to put partial mags in my dump pouch and not back on my belt.

Throughout the day we performed a number of other drills and challenges. These included


Malfunction drills:
These are just all kinds of fun. It almost hurts when you intentionally jam two rounds into the gun. I think my comment summed it up best.

“If we are going to screw our guns this bad we should at least buy them dinner first”

The Walk back Drill:
More of a challenge than a true drill but a lot of fun. I see this as a great way to teach a lesson. It isn’t the guy with the best gear or the magnified optics that wins. It is the person with the best control of the gun and the understanding of how to shoot and varying ranges.


Transitions:
We all love them don’t we? One round strong hand, one round on your reaction side. Not bad but I always fumble the transition back. This is something I need to practice dry on my own more.


Battlefield pickup:
This one was new to me. We all loaded our gun up with a fresh mag and sat it on the ground. Everyone then shifted one step to the right and picked up the gun there. We combined this with the Transition drill, which made it very interesting.
Using someone else’s gear can be a challenge. The main problem I ran into was the sling. I now look back and wonder why I ever liked single point slings!

The most interesting part was using Hawaiian Bobs gun. I felt like I was putting on a necklace with a gun hanging off of it. Maybe that can be a new style for gangsters. LOL. Does BFG want to do a gold version of their sling? :jester:

I did love the comment when they picked up my gun and said “What the hell is this”
Apparently he had never seen an ACOG Micro before.


The Test:
FML I hate this drill. For anyone who doesn’t know this drill it is 10 rounds in 10 seconds at 25 yards(10 yards for Handgun). All must be in the black.

We actually performed this in a number of ways. Eventually we closed the range and had to do 10 rounds in 5 seconds. I screwed up this one badly. I had all rounds in the black and was well under time. But apparently I forgot how to count, as I only fired 9 rounds. Like I said. FML. This Drill hates me. :suicide:


Just like with every class I learned a lot here, and continue to refine what works for me and what doesn’t. I will say that the morning started off pretty disheartening. I was not shooting near to the level I know I could. I dropped way to many rounds out of the black. But as the day progressed I saw a marked increase in my shooting, along with everyone else’s. I would like to blame it on the cold, and I am sure that had something to do with it, but in the end only I am responsible for how I shoot.

In the morning I was really questioning myself. Mr. Barnsfather yelled at us a few times and while he never picked out any individuals, I know it was directed at me more than once. I was questioning at one point whether I was worthy to be in the class because I knew I was capable of doing more.

However by the afternoon I had got my act together and was performing much better. I feel that I am ready for next months class and know that with a few more of these I will be ready for more advanced classes.

I feel I have come to a happy point in my gear. My carbine performed beautifully, the ACOG TA44 is a great all around optic in my opinion and I am glad to have it. I really like having the electronics free optic.

The only thing I am not happy with is my belt. It keeps slipping down after a lot of moving around. Honestly this has more to do with my body shape than anything. Fat boy needs to lose weight!


Finally I would like to thank Joe and Barry one last time for instructing the class. I have said it before but it bears repeating that those of us in this area are lucky to have such a talented and connected couple of instructors here in this area.

I will come back and add more, as well as some photos later. Right now I am still recovering however. That cold leaves you hurting!


Here are some photos guys.

I don't care how stupid some people think they look. A Shemagh is almost a must on a day this cold for me.
http://s807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%201-8-2011/100_2994.jpg

http://s807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%201-8-2011/P1080627.jpg

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%201-8-2011/100_2991.jpg

JBRIII
01-09-11, 15:11
Great AAR and pretty much sums up the day overall. I'll try and add some some of my observations, issues as well. I've known Joe for about 5 or so years. I wasoriginally introduced through a mutual friend when I was looking for some work done to one of my 1911's, then shot together some in KDPL. He's always been a great motivator and teacher and wants you to do your best. I'm glad to see he's following his passion.

This is the first time I've picked up a carbine in about 2 years. I was going to do a class with EAG last year, but had a disk injury while lifting weights that knocked me out of that opportunity. It was a great way to ease into the M4 platform as I usually shoot an AK and is what I've used in prior classes with Tactical Response.

Equipment Used:
- BCM M4, 14.5" w/pinned surefire brake, Magpul Mags
- MARS Axiom 1911, Wilson Mags
- OSOE Micro Rig
- Bladetech Belt Holster and Mag Holder
- Under Armour Cold Gear Base Layer
- Cabelas Lined Hiker Pants
- Cabelas Outfitter Gore Tex Anorak
- Danner 452 GTX Gore Tex Hikers
- Smartwool Socks

The weather was extremely cold 18 degrees when we finished and windy. The sun when it was out made it feel a little warmer. Bundling up for the cold made the pistol transitions a little more difficult. I only had my CCW holster for the 1911 and the gloves made manipulting the ambi safety difficult. In hindsight my G19 would've been a better choice as I could've used the battle belt setup.

I had gone to KC back in Oct and zeroed my T1. I only had to make minimal adjustment during the zero process of the class. The drills I thought built on each other and were done in a very methodical progression. My favorite drills or the day were the Battlefield pickup and the walkback drill. I really liked checking out everyones setups during the pickup drill and gave me some goood ideas on what I want to change on mine. The walkback drill at unknown distance really was a good test. I need to remember to keep both eyes open with the T-1 and rememeber the offset. I too was tending to center the dot rather than top edge.

Overall I was happy with my performance for not shooting a carbine in such a long time. It really helped to rekindle the desire to get out and keep practicing. Also it was a great group of guys in class which always makes it enjoyable. I met a lot of great folks and hope to get the chance to train with you all again.

John

kwelz
01-09-11, 16:10
I would agree. The Battlefield pickup was my favorite as well. Although I want to know who dripped those two rounds on my target during that drill. :angry:
I really wish someone would have had a Non AR in class. I would have loved to see how people reacted to an AK, FS2000, or some other type of weapon. Honestly I think everyone would have done well regardless but it would have been fun to see.

Maybe I will run something like that through a class sometime soon just to see. :haha:

Appalachian
01-09-11, 17:55
...I did love the comment when they picked up my gun and said “What the hell is this”
Apparently he had never seen an ACOG Micro before.


That was me, just trying to stir up some stink. :D BTW nice setup! That was a fun excursion getting to shoot different setups though. It did reinforce for me that there is a lot of extraneous stuff that one can hang off a carbine. Just because you can doesnt mean you should.

Couple of observations from my position:

Take a close read through the thread that details the "before you take a course" actions. It applies to everyone, not just the novice. I believe the majority of the guys yesterday adhered to the rules rather well, I didnt ever feel like any individual detracted from the instruction by failing to have his stuff together. Although there were some who required adjustments during zeroing it went quickly. There was a lot of "Christmas Gear" on the range, but it seemed that most worked through the adjustments on the fly.

Joe and Barry beat the shit out of us about staying in the black. After 25 years of good ole big Army pop-up range instruction this was a welcome change. And challenge. The gun will tighten up as much as you will let it. Me, not so much. But there were guys that were hammering the 'uckfay out of the targets; I was impressed by some of the skills that the fellow shooters have (H.B. and the two LMPD gents at 1 and 2 to name a couple).

I liked the big boy rules, safe and hang if anyone was down range. Only time we cleared was to leave the range. I never got swept or felt that guys around me weren't watching their shit. I did get "stuck" beside J III. shooting a muzzle break.;) Holy shit that rocked my head after a full day. He was a good shooter though, I couldnt keep up with him.

The walkback and the steel was a blast. A good change of pace from the other drills.

I appreciated the approach during the course. A good old ass chewing goes miles toward getting me to straighten my shit out. If you want a hug, dont train with Joe and Barry. It isn't "Im OK, you're OK" kinder gentler environment. Nor should it be. I had a great time, laughed my ass off at times but never got any indications that we were there to do anything else but train.

JBRIII
01-09-11, 18:11
Sorry about the concussive blast from the surefire, funny I never noticed ;). Although I did during the Pick Up Drill. It was defintitely louder off to the side, than behind the gun. I think it helped during The Test for the rapid fire strings though. I am having Joe shave the Front Sight and putting on a 11" Troy TRX. I just felt too cramped with the std length M4 DD rail. I think being able to move my hand out a little further will help my control. Looking forward to training with all you guys again. It was a good group for sure.

Couldn't keep up, whatever.......... who won the dollar shoot? and the shootoff against Barry???

I came home last night and camped out in front of the fire. I could not get warmed up. Even the shower hurt because my skin was raw from the cold wind.

kwelz
01-09-11, 18:34
That was me, just trying to stir up some stink. :D BTW nice setup! That was a fun excursion getting to shoot different setups though. It did reinforce for me that there is a lot of extraneous stuff that one can hang off a carbine. Just because you can doesnt mean you should.


Haha! Good to put a face to the Screenname. It was good shooting with you.

Couple of observations from my position:




I was impressed by some of the skills that the fellow shooters have (H.B. and the two LMPD gents at 1 and 2 to name a couple).

Yeah they are always the ringers. Jerks, all of them.



I liked the big boy rules, safe and hang if anyone was down range. Only time we cleared was to leave the range. I never got swept or felt that guys around me weren't watching their shit.

I am the same way. I hate normal ranges now. I feel safer with this group than I do on a supposedly safe range with a Rangemaster. Although I must fess up. I screwed up big and feel it should be a learning point for others. When showing off that really screed up doublefeed to the group I was holding the the gun out from my body and sideways. To show the class I swept the muzzle up towards Joe. It was an unacceptable breach of discipline on the range. In my opinion Joe was far to nice in how he called me out on it.



I did get "stuck" beside J III. shooting a muzzle break.;) Holy shit that rocked my head after a full day. He was a good shooter though, I couldnt keep up with him.
Haha I hear you. My first reaction when he fired near me was "HOLY ****! Muzzle break"! Every time he got up to do a solo drill everyone took a couple extra steps back. HB was running one as well but his didn't seem as loud.



I appreciated the approach during the course. A good old ass chewing goes miles toward getting me to straighten my shit out. If you want a hug, dont train with Joe and Barry. It isn't "Im OK, you're OK" kinder gentler environment. Nor should it be. I had a great time, laughed my ass off at times but never got any indications that we were there to do anything else but train.

I agree. I some people can't handle that approach. They don't get invited to class. I have a lot of friends I would love to shoot with but they don't have the personality to handle what we do, even if they are good shots on their own.

JBRIII
01-10-11, 09:00
At the end of a Long COLD Day............

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/jbreamsiii/Class10811.jpg

Mr. Smith
01-10-11, 09:01
It was a Great class with Great students.
We are fortunate to have the opportunity to teach such strong students.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%201-8-2011/P1080632.jpg


Thanks for being there and trying so hard.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%201-8-2011/P1080633.jpg

Mr. Smith
01-10-11, 11:45
That was me, just trying to stir up some stink. :D BTW nice setup! That was a fun excursion getting to shoot different setups though. It did reinforce for me that there is a lot of extraneous stuff that one can hang off a carbine. Just because you can doesnt mean you should.

Couple of observations from my position:

Take a close read through the thread that details the "before you take a course" actions. It applies to everyone, not just the novice. I believe the majority of the guys yesterday adhered to the rules rather well, I didnt ever feel like any individual detracted from the instruction by failing to have his stuff together. Although there were some who required adjustments during zeroing it went quickly. There was a lot of "Christmas Gear" on the range, but it seemed that most worked through the adjustments on the fly.

Joe and Barry beat the shit out of us about staying in the black. After 25 years of good ole big Army pop-up range instruction this was a welcome change. And challenge. The gun will tighten up as much as you will let it. Me, not so much. But there were guys that were hammering the 'uckfay out of the targets; I was impressed by some of the skills that the fellow shooters have (H.B. and the two LMPD gents at 1 and 2 to name a couple).

I liked the big boy rules, safe and hang if anyone was down range. Only time we cleared was to leave the range. I never got swept or felt that guys around me weren't watching their shit. I did get "stuck" beside J III. shooting a muzzle break.;) Holy shit that rocked my head after a full day. He was a good shooter though, I couldnt keep up with him.

The walkback and the steel was a blast. A good change of pace from the other drills.

I appreciated the approach during the course. A good old ass chewing goes miles toward getting me to straighten my shit out. If you want a hug, dont train with Joe and Barry. It isn't "Im OK, you're OK" kinder gentler environment. Nor should it be. I had a great time, laughed my ass off at times but never got any indications that we were there to do anything else but train.


You are a real treat to have in class.
I hope you become a regular at the shop you are always welcome.
It is always nice to have a good student but you sir are a gentlemen as well.

http://i807.photobucket.com/albums/yy358/SuperiorFirearms/VSM%20CLASS%201-8-2011/P1070617.jpg

Thanks for being in class.

chuss
01-10-11, 17:26
Well, pretty much what everyone else said...:smile:

Joe built me a nice new AR for this class...and he helped me zero it in on Saturday. I wasn't really familiar with the AR platform, so everything we learned on Saturday was new for me. At least I didn't have to unlearn too many bad habits.

I couldn't seem to keep from holding the T1 micro red dot on the center of the target when we were shooting at close distances...which is why my shots were always hitting about 2 inches lower than I wanted. I would tell myself to aim for the top of the circle...but when the pressure was on, I kept putting the red dot in the center of the circle.

The learning process is always exciting for me, and Joe & Barry certainly gave us alot to think about during and after class. The drills we ran thru were really fun. I especially enjoyed the rifle-to-handgun transition drills...and the battlefield pickup drill. It was fun shooting with the other students' ARs. I wish we had the time to look over each gun in detail and figure out things we liked and didn't like...but there wasn't alot of time for drooling. :smile:

It was extremely cold, but I thought it only added to the experience. I had enough layers on to stay warm...with the exception of my toes. I was the only one who chose not to wear gloves, which didn't bother my hands while we were shooting, but they are looking pretty dried out now. I'd like to find a very thin pair of gloves that not only provide warmth, but doesn't affect finger tip sensitivity or dexterity.

Is it wrong to enjoy these classes as much as I do? I hope not. I feel that it's been an awakening for me and I'm thankful for guys like Joe and Barry, who tirelessly, give so much of themselves, in and outside of class to make us all better people and shooters.

Joe and Barry don't just cover the materials and run thru the drills. There's so much value added, personal experiences that they share before, during and after class...subtle and non-subtle.

I am grateful to have found such a high caliber of training, instructors, and fellow shooters in Louisville, KY of all places.

Thanks again everyone, and I look forward to another VSM class in February.

Sincerely,

Chris

Appalachian
01-11-11, 06:04
Thank you Sir, I appreciate it. And I will see you again soon for sure.

V/R

Mr. Smith
01-11-11, 09:11
Thank you Sir, I appreciate it. And I will see you again soon for sure.

V/R

I hope to see you soon.