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Pinnacle
08-23-07, 14:36
I was wondering if any of the industry professionals or other knowledgeable persons that post on this forum could educate me on using the QD sling attachment points included on most of the new collapsible stocks such as the CTR, E-Mod, and yet unreleased UBR.

I am a using separate front and rear mounts currently, but one of my training partners uses the QD cup built into both his CTR stock and his new E-Mod. Is this a good idea? I don't see nearly the amount of training time that most of you do so I thought I should ask.

Thank you.

Andrew Lindsey

Stickman
08-23-07, 20:16
Andrew,

on my duty weapon I use a single point sling off a single point sling mount. However, on training weapons I've run QD mounts (VCAS) on the CTR, EMOD, and UBR without any problems.


ETA- I've also run by GearSector ASP single point off the first UBR QD mount, and that has worked without any problems also.

Pinnacle
08-23-07, 20:24
Thank you Stick. Yours is exactly the type of opinion I was looking for.

Stickman
08-23-07, 20:34
Always glad to be of help. Here are a few pictures.


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_0881%20Stick.jpg


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_9571%20Stick.jpg


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_0972%20Stick.jpg

Erick Gelhaus
08-23-07, 23:15
The one AR I have with a CTR stock is set-up the way that two of Stickman's photos depict - on the R/H side of the stock. That AR did a 3-day EAG class earlier this with no issues related to the stock / sling interface.

Erick

Robb Jensen
08-24-07, 05:00
I use a Vickers CAG sling and use it like this on my LMT 10" SBR and on my 3gun rifle.

Both the front and rear attachment points are made by Daniel Defense. You can use the attachment point on the stock but if you try to transition to your left shoulder it gets the sling bound on your neck and tries to choke you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/b1cd205d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/eca17c14.jpg

toddackerman
08-29-07, 13:52
I use a Vickers CAG sling and use it like this on my LMT 10" SBR and on my 3gun rifle.

Both the front and rear attachment points are made by Daniel Defense. You can use the attachment point on the stock but if you try to transition to your left shoulder it gets the sling bound on your neck and tries to choke you.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/b1cd205d.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/eca17c14.jpg

Transition to the weak shoulder seems to be the only weakness to this system. You'll have to judge for yourself if that's imortamt, because like most things their are "Pros and Cons".

In a "Worst Case Scenario" you can release the Quick Disconnect bucke to switch shoulders.

KevinB
08-30-07, 16:23
Someone once showed me the best way to shoot via the less dominant shoulder - just move the gun to that side - use your same hand etc.
No worries with the sling then - and same muscle memory on the weapon controls/drills.

That UBR looks slick.

Robb Jensen
08-30-07, 16:50
Transition to the weak shoulder seems to be the only weakness to this system. You'll have to judge for yourself if that's imortamt, because like most things their are "Pros and Cons".

In a "Worst Case Scenario" you can release the Quick Disconnect bucke to switch shoulders.

I think you missed what I said. It's a weakness IF the sling is attached to the stock and not the the back of the receiver end plate. Hooked to the end plate it's JUST AS EASY to switch to my left shoulder as a single point sling is.

aloharover
08-30-07, 17:50
Here are a few pictures.


Stick,
Do you find you have a preference for at the receiver vs end of the stock for the placement?

I would think that with the EOS version the weapon would dangle more, be less controllable, basically get in the way more easily.

I tried running a single point through the stock rear sling mount and it seemed to get in the way more. So I went back to the end plate. But it could have been simple because mounted out off the end of the toe it didn't hang right and the heel mount in the photo would change the cog.

Pete

Stickman
08-30-07, 19:34
Stick,
Do you find you have a preference for at the receiver vs end of the stock for the placement?

I would think that with the EOS version the weapon would dangle more, be less controllable, basically get in the way more easily.

I tried running a single point through the stock rear sling mount and it seemed to get in the way more. So I went back to the end plate. But it could have been simple because mounted out off the end of the toe it didn't hang right and the heel mount in the photo would change the cog.

Pete


For duty and most training weapons, I run the sling off a single point sling mount.

I typically use a Daniel Defense mount, but GearSector makes the lowest profile mount available and I use them on some as well. Another new option to consider is the Magpul Sling Adapter. The MSA locks itself against the castle nut preventing it from working loose.

Please excuse the second picture as it is from an early prototype model.

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_3933%20Stick.jpg

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_3938%20Stick.jpg

This picture shows how low profile the GearSector sling mount is, though I confess this weapon is not mine.

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Macro%20Photography/IMG_8259%20Stick.jpg

Lastly, another option would be something like the Daniel Defense EZ CAR mount. There are several variants of this style mount available, and its an idea for those people who aren't comfortable pulling their receiver extension (buffer tube) off to install a single point sling mount.


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Daniel%20Defense%2C%20Inc./IMG_1851%20Stick.jpg

Pinnacle,

If my above comments derail or hijack your thread, let me know and I'll edit them out.

Pinnacle
08-30-07, 20:09
Pinnacle,

If my above comments derail or hijack your thread, let me know and I'll edit them out.

Not in the slightest. I appreciate any input I can get from people that carry their rifles for a living and/or have more training than I do. The pictures don't hurt either.;)

toddackerman
08-30-07, 20:47
I received my Vickers and a neat Daniels Defense QD that mounts directly under the center of the buffer tube. I'll mount the front in a QD mount that attaches to the raill right ahead of themag well for starters.

I'll adjust accordingly, but initially this eems like it would ne a good place to start.

Tack

aloharover
08-30-07, 20:50
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Magpul/IMG_0972%20Stick.jpg

So you do prefer the sling mounted on the extension just aft of the receiver, versus off the buttstock?

toddackerman
08-30-07, 20:56
So you do prefer the sling mounted on the extension just aft of the receiver, versus off the buttstock?


Don't know yet.

I want the gun to be tight against the body and not flapping around, but I also want to be able to extend it accordingly for standinng knealing, squatting, sitting and roll over prone.

Lot's to expect. I'm still debating how to switch shoulers without disconnecting. Is their enought teather to accomodate this? I've heard no.

Any Pics on this?

Stickman
08-30-07, 21:48
There is enough room on the VCAS to shoot support side, but I don't have pictures showing shooting from both sides.

If you mean pictures of the DD receiver mount that has the QD off the back, I've got pictures of that.

toddackerman
08-31-07, 09:54
Stick,

I have the DD Mount, but I'm recovering from Spinal Disc Surgery and haven't installed it yet.

My thought with going with this mount is that it moves the rear sling point 5-6" forward from the rear stock mount, and that might aid in shoulder transition.

The whole reason for the topic is that I have read that the only problem with the VCAS is you can't transiton to the weak shoulder, hence my comment about just hitting the quick relaese Fastex buck if you need to to do this.

Does anyone have any experience with weak shoulder trnsition specifically with the Vickers VCAS Sling?

Tack

KevinB
08-31-07, 11:16
Does anyone have any experience with weak shoulder trnsition specifically with the Vickers VCAS Sling?

Tack

YES.
I posted above on one method to use.

If you insist on changing hands (which is not a tactical reality) the issue will be how long you run your sling -- I find if I try that my sling gets caught up on my gear prior to any other issues - if your not shooting in gunfighting gear you may have better luck.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Magpul%20PMAG%20test/Iraq-Range26May039.jpg

I've been able to transition easily from shoulder to shoulder in CIRAS using the above sling setup (GG&G Plate w/ Vickers sling and GG&G rail mount right at the receiver edge of the rail) using the same hands - I cannot do the same with switching hands.

YMMV

aloharover
08-31-07, 12:32
Does anyone have any experience with weak shoulder transition


Just curious how often folks are finding a need for this?
When we were doing convoy escort and I found myself on the right side of the vehicle I would hold my rifle left handed, but as soon as I dismounted it was back in my right hand.

Other then that I never ran into an instance where I had to switch.

Pete

toddackerman
08-31-07, 14:58
Just curious how often folks are finding a need for this?
When we were doing convoy escort and I found myself on the right side of the vehicle I would hold my rifle left handed, but as soon as I dismounted it was back in my right hand.

Other then that I never ran into an instance where I had to switch.

Pete


Great Pics and description of the technique

Guys...
Were talking extremes here, and I'm really opening all the "Can of Worms" that i can think of. If you don't think of the alternatives, you'll never be as reaqdy as you can be to handle them.

My point....

If you're slung up for your strong shouder and you need to clear a corner with your weak side, you're going to be leading with more body parts than ideal.

That's all I'm saying.



By the way, I have decided on the Vickers with a rail mount very close to the mag well, and a Daniel's Defens QD mount that goes directly under the buffer tube as a starting point.

Tack

KevinB
08-31-07, 15:49
In a vehicle all one needs to do is pivot slightly in the seat.

Using your non dominat hand when you dont need to (and should not) is simply foolish.

I've been doing this from more than 20 years - I've picked up a trick or two along the way from people way more talented than I.

toddackerman
08-31-07, 22:32
Kevin,

Not to start a war, but I've picked up a few tricks and training in the last 30 years, and you don't lead with the dominant part of your body to break a corner if not necessary. We're not just talking about mobil excursion tactics. We're also talking barricade and cover tactics.

That's what weak hand/ shoulder transition drills are made for....using the proper side of your body to negotiate a right or left corner...and they are different.

I can't add anything else to this other than it should be part of every training regiment from strong hand to weak hand transition drills. If you want to break a left corner with your left side to the point where you have to expose the weapon with your right side, (more than 80% of your body exposed) unecessarily, it's your call.

But by transferring the weapon to the weak shoulder, transitioning your strong hand to the VFG and only exposing 20% of your body, why wouldn't you?

Do you practice weak handed, or disabled strong hand drills with your rifle or sidearm? There's 2 reasons to do so. 1 Injury, and 2. Minimum exposure around a barricade or cover.

Done with this.

Tack

scoutout86
09-01-07, 16:12
Kevin,

Not to start a war, but I've picked up a few tricks and training in the last 30 years, and you don't lead with the dominant part of your body to break a corner if not necessary. We're not just talking about mobil excursion tactics. We're also talking barricade and cover tactics.

That's what weak hand/ shoulder transition drills are made for....using the proper side of your body to negotiate a right or left corner...and they are different.

I can't add anything else to this other than it should be part of every training regiment from strong hand to weak hand transition drills. If you want to break a left corner with your left side to the point where you have to expose the weapon with your right side, (more than 80% of your body exposed) unecessarily, it's your call.

But by transferring the weapon to the weak shoulder, transitioning your strong hand to the VFG and only exposing 20% of your body, why wouldn't you?

Do you practice weak handed, or disabled strong hand drills with your rifle or sidearm? There's 2 reasons to do so. 1 Injury, and 2. Minimum exposure around a barricade or cover.

Done with this.

Tack

your absolutly right, our platoon sgt, had us doing drills all day and night till we got to were we could shoot and and knock down targets with our strong and weak shoulders... and now that were in iraq, i got to say that all those hours of training paid off. luckly for me it didt take much to get used to it since im also into paintball too, and one thing you learn fast in paintball is to hide as much as your body behind cover as possable, witch you have to switch your gun to the other shoulder, to keep fireing.

KevinB
09-02-07, 08:16
We are getting a little off topic.

I fully understand the need to stay behind cover, and the need to do non dominant hand drills with secondary.
However IMHO practicing non dominant hand drills with the primarily is foolish.
1) If your primary hand gets injured to an extent - you will unlike be able to do much with the rifle/carbine, and will need to go to pistol.

2) It is quicker to pop the rifle over to your non dominant side to make a shot - or alter your position behind cover than it is to alter your hands - reposition the sling - not to mention its awkward then (as a righty using his left) to alter your selector.

VCAS sling on my M4A1-Recce Rifle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3340.jpg

Primary side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3337-1.jpg

Wrong side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3339.jpg
While it looks a little odd and awkward - it take no real time to move it to that position and back - and save the "change arms drill" with your hands - because when you move you really dont have time to do that.

While I could loosen the sling a lot more to make it possible for me to change arms (I cant the way its setup) then the carbine drops low and flops around during transitions.

Another way if you have more room from a barricade is to roll your body.
All will get you back into the fight in your WAY more effective setup than changing over.

We used to change arms all the time - then after a bit of combat we learned that staying on your primary position was a more effective choice.

One of the SME's on the subject basicload posted something similar to this on Lightfighter a few years ago - and it got us thinking...

I'm not telling anyone they are wrong - I'm just suggesting -give the idea a test - it may work for you.
It works for me - and I really can't have it any other way do to the gear.


Sorry for the poor quality pics - I dont heave a photo editor on this laptop - and my photographer in some pics took them before I was fully in position. Then the flash card was full of pics from leave (and I did not want delete them -- card is now empty - and I will get some more later in the week)


My 0.02 Iraqi Dinar
-Kev

aloharover
09-02-07, 09:47
My 0.02 Iraqi Dinar
-Kev

Is the exchange rate still 1500-1? One guy would buy a couple hundred dollars worth every month hoping that if the oil flow ever got fixed and the exchange rates dropped he would be :cool:
Anyway...
We did do non-dominate hand practice but for most people it is very awkward. And with the exception of the gunners, no one carried a secondary weapon.
I agree if you are right handed and turning to the right you expose more of your body if you don't switch. But when you start going fast it just doesn't seem to matter. Go left, go right, up, down, you end up holding in your dominant all the time.

Pete

KevinB
09-02-07, 10:32
Is the exchange rate still 1500-1? One guy would buy a couple hundred dollars worth every month hoping that if the oil flow ever got fixed and the exchange rates dropped he would be :cool:
roughly
depends you get a better rate for large bills than small - exchange a one dollar bill and you get like 1,100 - yet you can get 1,400-1,500 for $1000 :rolleyes: - its Iraq what can you say...



Anyway...
We did do non-dominate hand practice but for most people it is very awkward. And with the exception of the gunners, no one carried a secondary weapon.
I come the land of everyone has a secondary



I agree if you are right handed and turning to the right you expose more of your body if you don't switch. But when you start going fast it just doesn't seem to matter. Go left, go right, up, down, you end up holding in your dominant all the time.

Pete
+1

toddackerman
09-02-07, 11:31
We are getting a little off topic.

I fully understand the need to stay behind cover, and the need to do non dominant hand drills with secondary.
However IMHO practicing non dominant hand drills with the primarily is foolish.
1) If your primary hand gets injured to an extent - you will unlike be able to do much with the rifle/carbine, and will need to go to pistol.

2) It is quicker to pop the rifle over to your non dominant side to make a shot - or alter your position behind cover than it is to alter your hands - reposition the sling - not to mention its awkward then (as a righty using his left) to alter your selector.

VCAS sling on my M4A1-Recce Rifle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3340.jpg

Primary side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3337-1.jpg

Wrong side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3339.jpg
While it looks a little odd and awkward - it take no real time to move it to that position and back - and save the "change arms drill" with your hands - because when you move you really dont have time to do that.

While I could loosen the sling a lot more to make it possible for me to change arms (I cant the way its setup) then the carbine drops low and flops around during transitions.

Another way if you have more room from a barricade is to roll your body.
All will get you back into the fight in your WAY more effective setup than changing over.

We used to change arms all the time - then after a bit of combat we learned that staying on your primary position was a more effective choice.

One of the SME's on the subject basicload posted something similar to this on Lightfighter a few years ago - and it got us thinking...

I'm not telling anyone they are wrong - I'm just suggesting -give the idea a test - it may work for you.
It works for me - and I really can't have it any other way do to the gear.


Sorry for the poor quality pics - I dont heave a photo editor on this laptop - and my photographer in some pics took them before I was fully in position. Then the flash card was full of pics from leave (and I did not want delete them -- card is now empty - and I will get some more later in the week)


My 0.02 Iraqi Dinar
-Kev

Kevin....


I don't klnow how we got so apart on this, but we're talkiung about the same thing. Switching from dominant to weak side as needed for proper execution of a left and right barrricade cover.

My thread started our indicating that this was not possible with the Vickers Slnig. Obviously it is.

Peace!

Tack

KevinB
09-02-07, 11:56
rgr - I just figured if I put it to pics I could demo what I was meaning.

UPSguy
09-02-07, 12:48
KB, are you using right or left eye in the weak side picture through the Short dot? Thanks for the pictures, that was helpful.

KevinB
09-02-07, 15:45
Left Eye.
My shooting that way is at least 100% better than if I try to shoot as a lefty (for CQB stuff) between timed and accuracy.

aloharover
09-02-07, 18:18
Back on topic a little :D

Any issues with the QD button type mounts coming off? Hitting the release by accident, or are they a real heavy spring?
Any to avoid?

I have used fastek(sp) buckles and the metal j-hook clips but never tried those.

Pete

Robb Jensen
09-02-07, 18:21
Back on topic a little :D

Any issues with the QD button type mounts coming off? Hitting the release by accident, or are they a real heavy spring?
Any to avoid?

I have used fastek(sp) buckles and the metal j-hook clips but never tried those.

Pete

I highly doubt anyones ever had one accidently come off, sometimes they're a bitch to get on and off when you're trying.

toddackerman
09-02-07, 20:52
Back on topic a little :D

Any issues with the QD button type mounts coming off? Hitting the release by accident, or are they a real heavy spring?
Any to avoid?

I have used fastek(sp) buckles and the metal j-hook clips but never tried those.

Pete

The QD releases are much more rubust than the fastex Buckle which I have seen disengage on several occaisions.

You really have to apply some pressure and pull at the same time to get the QD button to disengage.

mark5pt56
09-03-07, 12:59
I've never seen the push buttons come undone. An Aussie did see it once, he said the weapon hit the deck from about 100'. He commented on my UDC with a QD stub, the stub buckles are another question. I have a thread on tac gear about them.

Mark

C4IGrant
09-03-07, 15:35
Good stuff Kevin and thanks for the pics.



C4

KevinB
09-04-07, 14:40
I noticed to get the best out of the VCAS - get rid of the fastex connection - for in armor it makes the adjustment "tongue" to far back to adjust easily.

Run the QD or HK hook (whatever your using) right to the sling (this probably occured to most everyone but me intially).

I sat around for a few hours, after those pics where taken - trying to get a greater range of motion, and it occured to me I was short changing myself with the length of adjustment and the postion of the adjustment since I was losing 3-4" due to the fastex connector and its fabric to the QD swivel) - so I unthreaded the fastex from one side and used a sapre QD swivel I had (the one I had was sewn into the fastex adaptor). I can now get a bit more length (making the left side transition easier - my head is not as scrunched up now) and a lot faster too.

Stickman
09-04-07, 23:02
I highly doubt anyones ever had one accidently come off, sometimes they're a bitch to get on and off when you're trying.

Just had a conversation with someone who has seen this as a problem, and I consider them credible. I would guess its more a matter of double checking your gear, as in this case he stated he was able to give a sharp yank and pull QDs out of their mounts on more than one setup he owned. It was NOT a BFG/ VCAS sling, nor one of the BFG QD units.

Take it for whatever its worth, but I think most of us yank on anything that could possibly pull out, break, loosen, or snap ahead of time to make sure we were covering our 6.




ETA-Kevin, I had the same issues with the VCAS front fastex, and have ditched them also.

jmart
09-05-07, 00:04
We are getting a little off topic.

I fully understand the need to stay behind cover, and the need to do non dominant hand drills with secondary.
However IMHO practicing non dominant hand drills with the primarily is foolish.
1) If your primary hand gets injured to an extent - you will unlike be able to do much with the rifle/carbine, and will need to go to pistol.

2) It is quicker to pop the rifle over to your non dominant side to make a shot - or alter your position behind cover than it is to alter your hands - reposition the sling - not to mention its awkward then (as a righty using his left) to alter your selector.

VCAS sling on my M4A1-Recce Rifle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3340.jpg

Primary side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3337-1.jpg

Wrong side
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/Iraq/IMG_3339.jpg
While it looks a little odd and awkward - it take no real time to move it to that position and back - and save the "change arms drill" with your hands - because when you move you really dont have time to do that.

While I could loosen the sling a lot more to make it possible for me to change arms (I cant the way its setup) then the carbine drops low and flops around during transitions.

Another way if you have more room from a barricade is to roll your body.
All will get you back into the fight in your WAY more effective setup than changing over.

We used to change arms all the time - then after a bit of combat we learned that staying on your primary position was a more effective choice.

One of the SME's on the subject basicload posted something similar to this on Lightfighter a few years ago - and it got us thinking...

I'm not telling anyone they are wrong - I'm just suggesting -give the idea a test - it may work for you.
It works for me - and I really can't have it any other way do to the gear.


Sorry for the poor quality pics - I dont heave a photo editor on this laptop - and my photographer in some pics took them before I was fully in position. Then the flash card was full of pics from leave (and I did not want delete them -- card is now empty - and I will get some more later in the week)


My 0.02 Iraqi Dinar
-Kev

Kevin,

Do you have a problem using both eyes (or just your dominant eye as it appears in your photo) through your optic when transitioning to your weak side? I'm just playing around practicing your technique with my EoTech-equipped carbine and I find that with my right eye dominance, there's a significant visual "screwup" for lack of a better term when transitioning to my weak side.

When using the optic from my strong side, I use a NTCH cheekweld and it doesn't matter if I shoot both eyes open or just with my dominant eye, the reticle stays centered in the optic's window and everything's comfortable. But when transitioning over to weakside, my cheekweld moves way back on the stock, and if I try to aim with both eyes open, it appears as if the reticule is floating outside of the Eotech's window. Actually it seems as if the reticule is floating in a "ghost" image of the optics' window, and it appears the clear version of the optic window/housing is offset significantly to the left of the reticule's projection.

When I close my dominant right eye and sight with just my left eye the reticle is once again centered in the window, but it takes concentration on my part to use just my non-dominant eye when transitioning to the weak side.

I still experience this strange view when performing a hands shift during a trransition, but the view seems a bit easier to adjust to. Is this an artifact of Eotech's technology, or is it simply a eye dominance issue? Is this par for the course for most folks?

KevinB
09-05-07, 03:05
I was using my left eye looking thru the SD - but both eys open. FWIW - I find it easier to do with my EO than the SD.
I would suspect its an eye dominance issue.

I'm going to move this topic into tactics and training - and hope that we can get Pat Rogers or Larry Vickers to chime in on their thoughts.
(Travis or M4Guru etc as well)

SIMPLYDYNAMIC
09-05-07, 03:57
uh... a sling topic lol.

I know there is a lot of slings with different advantages and cool little nicknacks out there but I think when it comes to slings we should ask ourselves: Whats their primary mission?

I have T&E ed a lot of different slings and I have to say: they all do the same thing... they hold the weapon when Im not. ya ya I know some of them help with control of the weapon in different shooting positions etc, ect... but when I have to engage with my primary weapon I want as much flexability as possible. I could care less if it bounces around on my ass when I have a down shooter to deal with or some other situation where I may have to relincquish control of my primary. I care that it gives me the flexability to shoot weak handed (which I do a lot) especally when one day I found myself shooting on my weak side under a car in Iraq, I also have used it many a time in the right rear seat on PSD missions shooting to the 6 o'clock.

By the way from the posts on the eye dominace issues I found the key for me was by practicing weak side to build a memory point of cheak weld just like the strong side. This helps reference the eye in to the light of sight better for me.

So for me I am still a single point sling man, I acutally like the ZM systems the best still. I have been using them since OIF I. I like the rounded Cordora nylon to prevent sticking in gear and the smooth webbing so the sling slides smoothly around the neck. some people say they are a little bouncy but it has never bothered my much at all. I just have to zip tie the clasp for a just in case day, although I have never had one come off I just never take a chance.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y65/simplydynamic/T1SDITE.jpg
Travis

jmart
09-05-07, 07:59
Sorry for the hijack. I was asking WRT being able to perfrom a cross shoulder transition and because of my eye dominance issue it seems that switching hands and reestablishing a proper cheek weld helps obtaining a solid sight picture. In this context, mounting the sling at the end of the receiver seems to be a bit of a better solution than mounting at the rear of the stock and simply performing the transition w/o changing hands. Should have been more clear.

MX5
09-26-07, 12:06
Thanks Kevin - well put & photos are excellent.

toddackerman
09-26-07, 12:29
I got this tip last night from Ashley Burnsed (President of Blue Force Gear) regarding easier transitioning to the weak side when I asked about this topic.

Ashley wrote immediately:

"There is actually a pretty easy way to shoulder transition with the VCAS: 1. Drop the weak shoulder out of the sling 2. pull the adjustment tab all the way to the rear (open) 3. Shoulder transition. If you can't shoulder transition with the sling all the way open and your weak shoulder dropped out - the sling is too tight."


Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but seems logical.

Tack

SIMPLYDYNAMIC
10-15-07, 17:28
I got this tip last night from Ashley Burnsed (President of Blue Force Gear) regarding easier transitioning to the weak side when I asked about this topic.

Ashley wrote immediately:

"There is actually a pretty easy way to shoulder transition with the VCAS: 1. Drop the weak shoulder out of the sling 2. pull the adjustment tab all the way to the rear (open) 3. Shoulder transition. If you can't shoulder transition with the sling all the way open and your weak shoulder dropped out - the sling is too tight."


Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but seems logical.

Tack

Seems logical if you have the time, but those 3 steps to me take about 5-8secs...

toddackerman
10-15-07, 18:10
Seems logical if you have the time, but those 3 steps to me take about 5-8secs...

Please remember that after playing around with this, I advocate the rear of the sling be mounted at the receiver plate. From there the transition is about 1 second as Kevin B. has demonstrated on this thread.

I would think that the majority of these types of transitions would, or should be done while under cover, and preparing to enter/ clear with the weak side leading around the barricade/ corner. Hence, less exposure of the body to the threat.

Tack

toddackerman
10-15-07, 18:17
Just had a conversation with someone who has seen this as a problem, and I consider them credible. I would guess its more a matter of double checking your gear, as in this case he stated he was able to give a sharp yank and pull QDs out of their mounts on more than one setup he owned. It was NOT a BFG/ VCAS sling, nor one of the BFG QD units.

Take it for whatever its worth, but I think most of us yank on anything that could possibly pull out, break, loosen, or snap ahead of time to make sure we were covering our 6.




ETA-Kevin, I had the same issues with the VCAS front fastex, and have ditched them also.

My VCAS came without the Fastex buckle. Does anyone know if this is going to be the "Norm" for this sling based on these types of inputs?

Tack

SIMPLYDYNAMIC
10-17-07, 11:02
the majority of these types of transitions would, or should be done while under cover, Tack

That said it best... I just set my self up for worst case scenarios... Like a vehicle ambush and having to shoot under the vehicle or around the front under stress... its most certainly shooter preference but thats just me.

toddackerman
10-17-07, 11:18
That said it best... I just set my self up for worst case scenarios... Like a vehicle ambush and having to shoot under the vehicle or around the front under stress... its most certainly shooter preference but thats just me.


Make sure to read "Kevin B's' responses above to this. He is living this type of thing.

Tack

SIMPLYDYNAMIC
10-17-07, 11:47
Make sure to read "Kevin B's' responses above to this. He is living this type of thing.

Tack

Ah, I have... and I "live this type of thing too" My post was in regaurds to the procedures you mentioned above... as a "Time is life" suggestion. Kev and I use different techniques, I like to hand transistion, because I am very proficient that way and found it more useful for me and from what I have seen in my experience. Yet I have also used his method as well for certain situations which works very well.

NCPatrolAR
10-17-07, 11:51
I run VCAS slings on all my long guns (personal and work). If I want to go to my non-dominate shoulder, I simply drop my shoulder out of the sling (keeping the sling around my neck). Once my shoulder is out, I dont have any problems. I've found that running the sling out isnt needed for me.