View Full Version : Another G19 with a problem
One of the guys who works for me bought a new-production 3rd Gen G19 about a month ago. At the range yesterday, he had near continuous failures to extract with WWB 115 gr ammunition.
What's going on with Glock?
Thoughts?
Regards,
Kevin
Has he ever shot a Glock? Have someone else shoot it, sounds like limp-wristing.
All the problems people are talking about are with the gen4 only.
The only times I've had malfunctions on my gen4 were with my backstrap removed. I have it set up to "remove" the hump.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1153/5105528423_427f930a7f.jpg
If he continues to have problems while other people don't on the same pistol, he needs to hold it tighter, or perhaps pick up the Grip Force Adapter. I think this might help him get a better grip on the top part of the grip. I did an experiment with and without my cut down backstrap. I held the gun in my strong hand, and pulled back on the muzzle with my weak hand. Without the backstrap, I could pull it back. With the backstrap I could not. And as I said, ALL of my malfunctions were without the backstrap. And I've shot more than twice as much with it on.
http://www.gripforceproducts.com/Home.php
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=68861
ETA: Does his trigger bar have the dimple on the outside? This is new on the gen4 9mm pistols, but I'm curious if they are putting them on new production gen3 as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8Qt8ofCAw&feature=player_embedded
There's not even CLOSE to enough information in that post for me to make a knowledgeable judgment, but all other things equal, I'd be suspecting WWB before I suspected Glock...and has your friend shot this gun before? Did anyone else shoot this gun, and did they have the same problems? Was it all with the same magazine?
Gutshot John
01-11-11, 10:03
First please see forum rules about contacting the manufacturer first. Have you or your buddy done that?
Second any gun, even from the most reliable of manufacturers, can have a peculiar issue, without having had Glock technicians trouble shoot the problem, you're drawing broad conclusions based on a sample of one. Have you given Glock a chance to fix the problem?
Third WWB isn't exactly held in high-esteem, so you may (and I would say probably) have an ammo issue. Did you try different ammo? Maybe some +p?
Fourth any new gun can go through a bit of break-in, so again taking a sample of one, extrapolating to the entire Glock line is flawed. How many rounds did you put through it?
Fifth, while I hesitate to blame things on "limp wristing" how much shooting has your buddy done?
Just my $0.02 worth.
GermanSynergy
01-11-11, 10:47
How many rounds?
Grip?
Throw a box or three of warmer ammo thru it.
All of my Generation 3 Glock 9's have been flawless right out of the box.
Good luck
Sounds like limpwristing or possibly bad ammo. My gen 3 G19 has eaten anything I fed it...WWB, Rem UMC, Tula steel case.
ROCKET20_GINSU
01-11-11, 10:55
I have chipped my extractor before, just a thought...
GermanSynergy
01-11-11, 10:57
Which can be replaced in about 10 seconds...
I have chipped my extractor before, just a thought...
Can "limp wristing" cause a failure to extract? I'm not a Glock guru but that doesn't sound right to me. I could see a failure to eject/feed.
I also agree with others, first let an experienced shooter try it, then try different ammo.
mrosamilia
01-11-11, 11:40
I have 4 19's including 1 gen 4 and several thousand rounds of trouble free action. Let an experienced shooter make sure it is clean and in working order. I have never seen in my experience any gen 3 9mm fail out of the box with no mods.
I am beginning to sense a witch hunt beginning about Flock.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Can "limp wristing" cause a failure to extract? I'm not a Glock guru but that doesn't sound right to me. I could see a failure to eject/feed.
I also agree with others, first let an experienced shooter try it, then try different ammo.
Probably the wrong thing to do, but when people say fail to extract, I usually assume they mean fail to eject. Especially in this instance, with limp wristing being a known issue for Glock shooters.
Gutshot John
01-11-11, 12:03
Especially in this instance, with limp wristing being a known issue for Glock shooters.
Incorrect it is a much hyped issue for Glock shooters, invariably if it is an issue however it is inexperienced shooters using poly-frame guns.
Beat Trash
01-11-11, 12:09
I'd first check the gun to ensure it doesn't have crud under the extractor. Also check the extractor for any chips. I'd then take it to the range and try using a different magazine, then use a different type of ammunition.
If the problem continues, I'd call Glock and talk with them.
For what it's worth, using Winchester 147gr TMJ training ammunition, I tried to make my Glock 19 malfunction be causing a limp wrist. I had to hold it up side down with just the tips of a thumb and index finger and use the finger of my other hand to work the trigger in order to get the gun to malfunction. Even then I only got one malfunction out of a 15 rd magazine.
Using a Glock 26, I could not cause a limp wrist type of malfunction even when trying this. I gave up after shooting 5 of the 10 rd magazines.
I did this test thinking if I were to wound my shooting hand during an incident, I might not have my normal grip. I wanted to ensure the gun would still work.
IF YOU ARE GOING TO TRY THIS AT HOME, PLEASE BE CAREFUL! I DID THIS UNDER CONTROLLED CIRCUMSTANCES AT A CLOSED RANGE. ONE COULD EASILY INJURE THEMSELVES OR OTHERS IF NOT EXTREMELY CAREFUL!
Sorry, should have provided more information. Shooter is a VERY experienced Glock shooter - we shoot probably 7,000 rounds/year, conservatively, through our issued 3rd Gen G19s. He's also a Glock Armorer and firearms instructor, so I seriously doubt he's limp wristing.
The failure is a failure to EXTRACT - cartridge pulled approximately 1/2-1/3 of the way out of the chamber - not far enough back to hit the ejector before the extractor let go of the cartridge.
Pistol is new - purchased within the last six weeks; under 500 rounds fired.
The same ammo ran without a hitch through his issued 3rd Gen G19.
He's on the phone with Glock right now, will post more later.
Regards,
Kevin
Sorry, should have provided more information. Shooter is a VERY experienced Glock shooter - we shoot probably 7,000 rounds/year, conservatively, through our issued 3rd Gen G19s. He's also a Glock Armorer and firearms instructor, so I seriously doubt he's limp wristing.
The failure is a failure to EXTRACT - cartridge pulled approximately 1/2-1/3 of the way out of the chamber - not far enough back to hit the ejector before the extractor let go of the cartridge.
The same ammo ran without a hitch through his issued 3rd Gen G19.
He's on the phone with Glock right now, will post more later.
Regards,
Kevin
If he's a Glock Armorer I'm assuming he checked for broke parts; extractor, ejector, etc.? Is the extractor spring and plunger installed correctly? Is it the right extractor? Did someone muck around with the gun? How many rounds through it? Is it all orginial or are there any aftermarket parts installed?
There are probably several hundred questions about the gun, the ammo and the shooter. We simply need more info. But if he's on the phone with Glock they should be able to sort it out. My guess is they're going to ask him to send it in.
Please post an update when you get it.
Incorrect it is a much hyped issue for Glock shooters, invariably if it is an issue however it is inexperienced shooters using poly-frame guns.
Yeah... most issues with a good pistol are caused by inexperienced shooters.
SWATcop556
01-11-11, 17:21
Keep us posted Kevin. Is this a new issued weapon or is it a personal purchase? Maybe give us a prefix on the SN? I've shot a ton of junk ammo through my Gen3 Glocks and the only ammo related malfunctions I've had were with WWB.
FWIW to those wondering Kevin here is an experienced shooter so I'm not questioning his knowledge about the malfunction or shooter-induced problems.
I'm thinking it may be an ammo issue also. Although I have no issues with my G19, I do have issues with my G26 shooting the crappy Fiocchi 115gr ammo that is available at my local range. I've run other different types of ammo through it and it does just fine. So crappy ammo definitely can effect even a Glock.
As a side note, check for any burrs or crud in the chamber. A failure to extract could just mean something holding up the brass.
Gutshot John
01-11-11, 17:34
Crappy Fiocchi 115gr ammo
Interesting...I've had way more problems with WWB and UMC 115 gr than I've ever had with Fiocchi 115 gr. It's pretty much my go-to training ammo.
It chronos good, shoots clean, and accuracy is perfectly acceptable. Never had a single issue after ~20k rounds of Fiocchi through 2 G19s, 2 G17s, a G34 and my two M&Ps.
Using other ammo I have had issues shooting the G26, subcompacts are more problem-prone than normal-sized handguns.
Keep us posted Kevin. Is this a new issued weapon or is it a personal purchase? Maybe give us a prefix on the SN? I've shot a ton of junk ammo through my Gen3 Glocks and the only ammo related malfunctions I've had were with WWB.
FWIW to those wondering Kevin here is an experienced shooter so I'm not questioning his knowledge about the malfunction or shooter-induced problems.
Seems like I heard a while back that WWB has a somewhat shallow extractor groove???
Anyone else confirm this?
SWATcop556
01-11-11, 19:36
Seems like I heard a while back that WWB has a somewhat shallow extractor groove???
Anyone else confirm this?
This is true. It caused issues with the earlier M&P9's and the earlier versions of the extractor. I believe it's less of an issue now as S&W has redesigned the extractor so WWB would be more reliable.
I personally feel WWB is some of the worse ammo out there especially the bulk 100 boxes so I try to stay away from it. It is widely used however due to availability and price. Here lately I've been running the Federal premium ammo with decent results. It lacks a little in accuracy but functions without issue.
I also use the Federal from Walmart. It's actually cheaper than the WWB.
I also use the Federal from Walmart. It's actually cheaper than the WWB.
+1. I have ran the same federal exclusively for the last few classes with zero problems. I have become quite fond of it for training/classes.
FWIW, thousands of rounds of WWB 115 has run very well through our Gen 3s and Gen 4s. A year ago however, when case and bullet were that weird uniformly brass colored, they grouped worse than any other maker's. Over the last 4-6 mos however, the appearance looks more conventional color wise and they've shown better consistency (groups) than the Federal and Blazer I was also shooting.
Kevin,
Is this an American-made Glock with the new finish?
Is WWB what you guys have been using?
My guess is that it either has the wrong extractor installed (the 40 S&W/357) or that the extractor was manufactured out of spec (the first is more likely). Federal/CCI and Remington ammo is fairly forgiving of out of spec extractors. The case rims of Winchester is not. The extractor probably has just enough grab to pull the case out of the barrel, but is skipping over the case rim when it hits the ejector.
Try playing with some empty cases WWB cases. I'll bet the extractor lip isn't fitting all the way over the case rim.
I just got a new GEN 3 glock 19 yesterday, took it to the range and ran 200rds of federal 115 fmj and 100 rds of nato ball thru it I had zero problems. That would irritate me to know end, having issues with a new gun. I hope your buddy gets it resolved.
Is this an American-made Glock with the new finish?
Not possible if its a Gen3 as stated. I dont even think any of the Gen4's that have been manufactured here have been released to the general public.
platoonDaddy
01-13-11, 08:25
My Gen 3 G19OD manufactured in Sept 2010 has over 25 hundred rounds without a failure, over 2K of them with WalMart Federal 115gr.
Not possible if its a Gen3 as stated. I dont even think any of the Gen4's that have been manufactured here have been released to the general public.
The USA mfr. G17s that are shown in this post are Gen 3.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1295234
SWATcop556
01-13-11, 11:59
The USA mfr. G17s that are shown in this post are Gen 3.
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1295234
They are not available for commercial sale in the US yet. Also they are making G17's for contracts in the US now and the one in question is a G19.
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