View Full Version : Good 380 B.U.G. ?
BravoCompanyUSA
01-12-11, 17:48
A local LEO and good friend of mine asked my opinion about various 380, semi automatic. I did not have much info to offer him.
I am vaguely Ruger LCP, Keltech, S&W. My Keltech fell apart before I even shot it (never did shoot it). Heard 2nd hand mixed reviews on the Ruger, but mostly positive. The S&W has only been out for a year, but some department testing report were very favorable.
Anyone have experience with these or others they could share ?
Also, his main off duty is a Glock sub compact 40 which I am sure is a better option than any 380. But just looking for suggestions, experiences, and info reguarding 380 single stack auto BUGs.
Thanks in advance,
Paul
Alaskapopo
01-12-11, 17:57
A local LEO and good friend of mine asked my opinion about various 380, semi automatic. I did not have much info to offer him.
I am vaguely Ruger LCP, Keltech, S&W. My Keltech fell apart before I even shot it (never did shoot it). Heard 2nd hand mixed reviews on the Ruger, but mostly positive. The S&W has only been out for a year, but some department testing report were very favorable.
Anyone have experience with these or others they could share ?
Also, his main off duty is a Glock sub compact 40 which I am sure is a better option than any 380. But just looking for suggestions, experiences, and info reguarding 380 single stack auto BUGs.
Thanks in advance,
Paul
A friend of mine who is a Trooper bought a Ruger LCP for off duty and loves it. I shot it a few times and it worked.
Pat
You are going to get lots of replies saying that the LCP, and possibly the .380, is a piece of shit just to let you know. I however love mine and it has been reliable so far (only about 300 down the pipe, though). Great little gun for when you want to carry when you "cant" carry.
Take a look at the Sig 232. Its a little big , but is a very reliable 380.
LCP and a good pocket holster. You'll have no problems as long as you run good ammo through it. The only time I've had any problems out of mine was because I was shooting a box of the cheap Wal-Mart Tula. Even then out of 200 rounds there where only 3 FTF, and 1 that was a bad primer.
I got a smoking deal on LCP so I carry that now I did carry a P32 for past 4 years roughly and loved that. I shoot Fiochi (spelling) ball our of both and it groups really well. I love them. Its a bug its not my primary so.
What issues did you have with KT I have shot mine a ton and my friends 380 never any issue but I also made sure I didnt get them in first PROD year so
love my ruger LCP. it works great.
Don't overlook the Kahr 380. Good trigger, accuracy, recoil and sights for a weapon of this type. I looked at the Keltec, LCP (KT clone), and the Taurus but walked away with the Kahr. I did have a few (<10) FTF during the first 150 rounds but that doesn't seem to be unusual for this pistol or some of the others in this class. 600 rounds so far with no further malfunctions. I'm a southpaw so the Sig wasn't in the contest for me.
I ve shot the Keltec and the LCP and the LCP is far superior. I will be getting one of them in the near future.
Robb Jensen
01-12-11, 20:34
My BUG and sometimes primary gun in very warm weather is a Ruger LCP with a Crimson Trace Laser carried in a pocket.
I just picked up a Diamondback DB380. Unfortunately, I have not had the time to shoot more than a mag through it yet so I cant speak for reliability, but I like the grip, trigger, and sights. Just another one worth looking into. It is the same size as a Keltec or Ruger. Although, most people I know use the LCP with CT laser and none of them have had any problems that I know of.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=326&pictureid=1605
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=326&pictureid=1606
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=326&pictureid=1604
Very interested in this topic as well since I just started a new job that is in a little more "urban" environment. The office environment makes IWB difficult to pull off, so I'm seriously considering a .380 pocket pistol.
The S&W Bodyguard 380 really has my interest at the moment. What is the general consensus on this relative new comer to the BUG market?
I just picked up a Diamondback DB380. Unfortunately, I have not had the time to shoot more than a mag through it yet so I cant speak for reliability, but I like the grip, trigger, and sights. Just another one worth looking into. It is the same size as a Keltec or Ruger.
Is there some relationship between DB and Glock? They look too similar to be a coincidence. Maybe a licensing agreement of some sort?
When I went to motors 12 years ago I could no longer carry my back up in an ankle rig. A 38 in the vest has always seemed very lumpy to me. I just switched to the s&w 380 and am very happy with it. It's very shootable and carries better than any gun I've used.
The laser switch is not in a very good position to use quickly so I just don't use it. I've put about 400 rnds through it without issue. The double action is smooth and even (no stacking), although it may be a bit on the long side for some. I started my career with a wheelgun so its not a problem for me.
I cant argue with anyone who says the 380 cartridge is lame though. If I ever get off bikes I'll go back to the 38 on my ankle, but they'll have to drag me from my scooter. I'm very satisfied with it(the gun).
The Ruger LC9 was released today, a better alternative to .380.
Personally, I carry a Sig P238 Nitron everyday. It has worked very well for me, and is much easier to shoot than the LCP. The 238 feels like a .22 in comparison to the LCP, so follow up shots are almost too easy and much faster...which is kind of a big deal in a BUG.
That's just my opinion, of course. :D
ETA - I have an LCP, my girlfriend carries an LCP, my dad carries an LCP, my little sister carries an LCP, my little sister's fiancee carries an LCP, my best friend carries an LCP and his girlfriend carries an LCP. All of them have worked flawlessly from the factory.
I have a Ruger LCP and it's ok. I've heard lots of complaints about the sights, but let's face it, this isn't a pistol designed for 25+ yards target shooting. I actually think they are a plus since they are much less likely to snag being they are such a low profile.
Make certain the recoil spring is installed correctly. One end is flared and if installed backwards you'll have malfunctions.
As a personal preference I added a heavier 13lb Wolf recoil spring.
Having said that I would buy a LCP again but I'd also like to try an Kahr 380 and 9mm.
One final thought, paying more for .380 ammo than for 9mm sucks and .380 can be hard to find at times.
Take a look at the Sig 232. Its a little big , but is a very reliable 380.
I'll second this. My brother has one and I've handled it a bit. I was quite impressed with it.
The LCP is quite simply an improved Kel Tec. Design wise I think the S&W is far more gun for the money.
I've carried a sig p238 for appx. one year. It comes with a decent set of sights and is very enjoyable to shoot. The only training issue to overcome is the manual safety. It is a .380...but I have it on me when I would otherwise have gone without.
Web Architect
01-12-11, 23:07
Rohrbaugh R9s, hands down. It's a 9mm, sized close to the LCP (which I sold). LCP trigger didn't break until the very back of the trigger pull. Not natural to me.
The R9 is in a whole different class, and it ought to be for what you pay for it. But, in 9mm it's easier to shoot than the .380 LCP. And Rohrbaugh can be had in .380 if that's what's called for.
And as far as I know, R9 has no equal in reliability. Again, for the price, it should.
John_Wayne777
01-13-11, 06:53
My BUG and sometimes primary gun in very warm weather is a Ruger LCP with a Crimson Trace Laser carried in a pocket.
Robb hooked me up with a Ruger LCP back when they were rarer than hen's teeth. Sample of one and all that, but mine has been a spectacular little handgun for what it is. I've fired about 800 rounds through my LCP with no malfunctions. It does seem to bog down a bit if it is bone dry, so I try to keep it reasonably well lubricated.
I also added the CT laser module to my LCP. I think the CT laser is a must-have addition to a weapon like the LCP because the usability of the sights is poor in anything approaching low light conditions. They can still be used well enough to shoot reasonably small groups at 10 yards, but on anything that doesn't match ideal outdoor range conditions it will be a struggle to use them with any precision.
The laser cures that:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0867.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0871.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0883.jpg
That's a rapid-fire group done by pulling the trigger as fast as I could get a decent laser reference. I fired six shots, reloaded, then fired six more. You can't really ask much more than that from a mousegun.
I just picked up a Diamondback DB380. Unfortunately, I have not had the time to shoot more than a mag through it yet so I cant speak for reliability, but I like the grip, trigger, and sights. Just another one worth looking into. It is the same size as a Keltec or Ruger. Although, most people I know use the LCP with CT laser and none of them have had any problems that I know of.
https://www.m4carbine.net/picture.php?albumid=326&pictureid=1605
I'm looking to update my .380 BUG and I like the looks of this DB380...Might I ask what you paid for yours and if you have had a chance to shoot it more how you are liking it now?
NAA .380 Guardian. Rohrbaugh if you want to spend the money (remember, it's use is basically as a "belly gun")
I'm surprised no one has mentioned PPK, unless I missed it. Nicely made but for the price and size, one can do better.
Paul,
Another vote for the LCP here. I have had mine almost a year now. Close to 1500 rounds thru it in that time frame. Its small, light and will work as intended for my purposes. A pocket carry BUG. I carry a G27 as a primary sometimes and the Ruger as the backup. I let a bunch of fellow officers shoot it and in my agency alone, 4 have went and bought their own a short time after. I wasn.t a fan of no sights at first but IIRC there is a company making add on sights for it.
dakotalawdog
01-13-11, 07:32
When I don't want to carry a real gun, I carry a Ruger LCP. 200 or so rounds with no malfunctions. At 15 yards I can keep 8" groups center mass. I think beyond that, the sights are a little crude. It completely disappears in a pocket holster / pants pocket.
Of course, any .380 is more of a "stick in ear, pull trigger" type gun.
Take a look at the Sig 232. Its a little big , but is a very reliable 380.
+1 Great handgun.
Paul - there are certainly lots of options out there in mouseguns. My personal preference is for the Kahr PM9, because it's only marginally larger than most of the .380 options, and I really think it's worth the extra size to get the better performance of the 9mm round. My PM9 disappears on the ankle, IWB, or in a roomy pocket.
Having said all that, it's a LITTLE too big/heavy for pocket carry in dress slacks or jeans. If that's the application, then one of the ultra thin, ultra light .380s seems to be the answer. After the initial teething pains, I've heard nothing but good about the Ruger LCP; and, if I was in the market for a .380, that's the way I'd go.
I've owned two Keltc P3ATs - the first would not reliably feed ball despite several trips back to the factory, and to say the accuracy was shotgun-like is an insult to the worst short barreled shotgun in history. I literally could not keep rounds within a 18" circle at 7 yards with that pistol. Several months after ditching that pistol, I bought another from a guy I trusted who said his was fine. This version was reliable with anything except Corbon ammunition, and, after installing "P-Sights" on it, I could easily hit coke cans out to 10 yards or so.
The new S&W Bodyguard is an interesting design, but it's a LITTLE heavier than the LCP, which might make it "print" more in lighter cloth pockets...
The Kahr P380 is a GREAT .380, but pretty spendy - the Rorbaughs, IMHO, are simply too expensive to carry.
Regards,
Kevin
I'm loving the lcp for when times I'm too lazy to carry but feel guilty not to. I find the pearce grip extension to be a big plus.
lethal dose
01-13-11, 11:30
I know the question was about a .380 but kahr's pm9 is about the same size, has real sights and is in a much more serviceable round.
Personally, I carry a Sig P238 Nitron everyday. It has worked very well for me, and is much easier to shoot than the LCP. The 238 feels like a .22 in comparison to the LCP, so follow up shots are almost too easy and much faster...which is kind of a big deal in a BUG.
That's just my opinion, of course. :D
ETA - I have an LCP, my girlfriend carries an LCP, my dad carries an LCP, my little sister carries an LCP, my little sister's fiancee carries an LCP, my best friend carries an LCP and his girlfriend carries an LCP. All of them have worked flawlessly from the factory.
I second this. I have a P238 that I have carried for over a year now and I love it. I have shot multiple Ruger LCPs and I hated the recoil and the sights were awful. I still think the LCP is a good pocket gun, but the P238 is basically the same size and cycles much smoother with great sights. I think the P238 is all around one of the best pocket pistols you can have. I have put 400 rounds through mine without a single FTF or malfunction of any kind. Great pocket .380
Beat Trash
01-13-11, 13:13
While I prefer the Kahr PM9 for this, two officers assigned to our range bought S&W BG 380's. I spent some time shooting their guns.
I could hit 6" plates out to 25 yds easily with them. Very shootable guns. I have been told to expect S&W to introduce a version at SHOT that comes without the laser, for those who don't want one.
While I don't want to start a debate about the 380 acp round, if I were going to carry one, I would look hard at the S&W Body Guard after the limited time I spent shooting one.
Some things to consider Paul. The .380 auto SUCKS ASS as a defensive load. A small J frame in .22Magnum or .38 would be superior to it.
S&W is going to show off some single stack 9mm HG's at shot (one in the M&P line and one in the Bodyguard line). These will have 3" slides and be very thin.
My other personal choice is the Walther PPS. Simply one of the most accurate and reliable "small" guns on the market and can be had in 9mm. This would be my FIRST CHOICE followed by a J frame.
C4
My only experience has been with LCPs and 238s. I started with a LCP and it ran like a champ. I later "upgraded" to a 238. My 238 ran like a champ too but unlike a previous comment alluded to it wasn't the same size as a LCP. It was ever so slightly larger and MUCH thicker and heavier. If carried AIWB the 238 is a great choice. If carried in a pocket .... LCP FTW.
I sold the 238 and went back to a LCP. The better sights and trigger of the 238 were nice but it just wasn't a true pocket gun IMO. The LCP wins every time in that role. Inside .380 distances the better sights and trigger prob aren't necessary anyway. Besides, with a little practice I found the LCP to be quite accurate enough even out to a distance that would render it ineffective.
I'm ready to try a LC9 though once they hit the streets. I won't be getting rid of my LCP though.
I've owned 3 myself and have at least 3 more in my immediate family. All have ran like champs with factory ammo. I have ran 2 of mine through a good number of rounds too and feel confident they are reliable enough to trust.
S&W is going to show off some single stack 9mm HG's at shot (one in the M&P line and one in the Bodyguard line). These will have 3" slides and be very thin.
C4
My interest is officially piqued.
I'm looking to update my .380 BUG and I like the looks of this DB380...Might I ask what you paid for yours and if you have had a chance to shoot it more how you are liking it now?
I got a great deal on it, $275, so that is one of the reasons that i got it. But no I have not had a chance to shoot it more yet. I think they retail for 325 to 350.
I'm not so keen on the Diamondback...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58157&highlight=diamondback
I was waiting for the lc9. May have to hold off to see what S&W brings to the table.
I used to have a lcp, never a problem with it. Great for what it is. No longer have it. Have a p238 that runs great. Better sights and feel win it for me.
Some things to consider Paul. The .380 auto SUCKS ASS as a defensive load. A small J frame in .22Magnum or .38 would be superior to it.
S&W is going to show off some single stack 9mm HG's at shot (one in the M&P line and one in the Bodyguard line). These will have 3" slides and be very thin.
My other personal choice is the Walther PPS. Simply one of the most accurate and reliable "small" guns on the market and can be had in 9mm. This would be my FIRST CHOICE followed by a J frame.
C4 If indeed one is introduced based on the M&P I'll buy the first one I can get my hands on. I like the LCP I have,I just can't get warm to the .380 round. I hope S&W hurries up,but gets it right.
I've got a buddy that carries a Kel-Tec P3AT as a BUG on duty. He swears by that little bastard.
I opted for a G27 to supplement my G22. Yeah, it felt a little bulky for the first night I wore it, but it got used to it quickly.
If your friend is dead set on carrying a .380, why not check out a PPK?
Not to hijack, but if Glock would make a "Slimeline" subcompact in .40, I'd buy one.
Since he's a cop, can he get a Glock G28?
The PM9, LC9, and what will likley be unveiled by S&W at SHOT are just too big for pocket carry (Unless S&W's 9mm is the same size as a BG .380, which I doubt). For me, this is why I stay with a true mouse gun like the LCP. It can go everywhere with me and nobody will ever know. Like to Christmas dinner with my absurdly liberal family who is disgusted by the fact that I think carrying a gun is a good idea. No need to tuck it in the waistband and wear a shirt over it. Jeans and T-shirt and I'm good.
Since he's a cop, can he get a Glock G28?
Why would anyone want to go through all the paperwork to allow the ownership of a Glock 26 sized gun that shoots piss-ant bullets when they could have the same gun in 9mm or .40S&W?
I'm not so keen on the Diamondback...
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=58157&highlight=diamondback
I hope mine works :D
Suppose I'll have to track its progress.
I'd say LCP then OP!
I have the LCP and have been very happy with it. It has been 100% reliable and shoots surprisingly well. I know about 25 others with the LCP and there haven't been any issues I am aware of (other than a couple with trouble qualifying but that is operator error). I also have a PM9 and it is now great (had to go back once but has been reliable since) but, while small, it is significantly larger than the Ruger. For my use, BUG on duty, the LCP is the right fit for me. I have played with the Bodyguard a little in the store and it felt good. I'm not a fan of integral lasers though.
I'd sure try like crazy to make the PM9 work out. I have a Colt Mustang .380 that's a pretty handy little gun, but I've never HAD to drop down to .380, having a PM9 available. I understand that today's .380 ammo is much more effective than the .380 of old, but today's top 9mm ammo is much better yet and the PM9 is, for me anyway, always do-able if a G19/23 or similar is just too much to carry.
I'd sure try like crazy to make the PM9 work out. I have a Colt Mustang .380 that's a pretty handy little gun, but I've never HAD to drop down to .380, having a PM9 available. I understand that today's .380 ammo is much more effective than the .380 of old, but today's top 9mm ammo is much better yet and the PM9 is, for me anyway, always do-able if a G19/23 or similar is just too much to carry.
PM9s hurt when they Kaboom and the blow out panel in the grip slaps the living dogshit out of the palm of your hand.
Ask me how I know. :)
PM9s hurt when they Kaboom and the blow out panel in the grip slaps the living dogshit out of the palm of your hand.
Ask me how I know. :)
Kabooms with any gun, including a .380, wouldn't be much fun either. ;)
Here's a good reference for dimensions and weights of common mouse guns. I think weight is just as important as size when trying to conceal a firearm.
http://www.mouseguns.com/PocketAutoComparison.pdf
Why would anyone want to go through all the paperwork to allow the ownership of a Glock 26 sized gun that shoots piss-ant bullets when they could have the same gun in 9mm or .40S&W?
Do I think its a good idea? Nope.
Its the same size as the officers off duty Glock, same manual of arms. Also the title of this thread is regarding.380acp.
Something to mention about the LCP trigger is the "false" trigger reset. I shot alot off of feel, after you shot a round off you release the trigger and feel the "click" 99.9% of weapons this means that it's time to pull the trigger again, WRONG the LCP has 2 clicks the first about 1/4 of the way forward and the last which is the real reset happen all the way forward. This is my main gripe with the LCP.
RogerinTPA
01-14-11, 20:46
Robb hooked me up with a Ruger LCP back when they were rarer than hen's teeth. Sample of one and all that, but mine has been a spectacular little handgun for what it is. I've fired about 800 rounds through my LCP with no malfunctions. It does seem to bog down a bit if it is bone dry, so I try to keep it reasonably well lubricated.
I also added the CT laser module to my LCP. I think the CT laser is a must-have addition to a weapon like the LCP because the usability of the sights is poor in anything approaching low light conditions. They can still be used well enough to shoot reasonably small groups at 10 yards, but on anything that doesn't match ideal outdoor range conditions it will be a struggle to use them with any precision.
That's a rapid-fire group done by pulling the trigger as fast as I could get a decent laser reference. I fired six shots, reloaded, then fired six more. You can't really ask much more than that from a mousegun.
I always wondered how much hard use you could get out of a LCP and I'm pleasantly surprised to hear this. This light weight mouse gun has to beat up your hand after a box or two of ammo.
NAA .380 Guardian. Rohrbaugh if you want to spend the money (remember, it's use is basically as a "belly gun") I'm surprised no one has mentioned PPK, unless I missed it. Nicely made but for the price and size, one can do better.
I had a NAA .380 Guardian. I put a few hundred rounds through it. It is a good bug, but wish the trigger was a few pounds lighter. I ended up giving it to my niece. If I had to go with a .380, the Walter PPK would be my choice or a Makarov, for the extra "Oomph" over the .380.
Fire_Medic
01-14-11, 22:48
Paul, you have always been kind and prompt with helping me as a customer so I will try to give my $0.02 from my experience and somewhat of the talk I give customers at the shop asking me the very same question.
First and foremost, anything that is to be a "pocket" gun is not going to be a good range gun, so comfort while shooting comes down to what can you bare and how much do you really intend to practice with this thing. I have an LCP which I bought because a customer traded it in and I couldn't pass up the price, that being said it usually collects dust in a pocket as a strict backup gun and rarely is used as primary CCW. The .380 is better than throwing rocks, but I'd rather have a 9mm or 38 spcl. What I try to explain to customers, especially those who I know shoot a lot, is that the cost of .380 ammo is about double that of 9mm and almost double that of 38 spcl. (talking FMJ here).
The ruger, or keltec, or Sig might be cheap, but shoot it often and the thought of cheap will never come into your mind again. If you can pocket an LCP you can pocket a J frame as well. J frames have an inherently more reliable design (revolver vs semi auto) and the rounds are more potent and cheaper to practice with. Neither gun is a "pleasure" to shoot a lot of rounds with, but what backup/off duty gun is.
I myself did not find the LCP bad to shoot and grouped well with it from 7 yards in both one and two handed, but it really is a one handed weapon. There isn't much real estate to grab. The revolvers will depend on it's grip and the size of your hands as well.
I still say that there is no reason why one can't comfortable CCW a subcompact Glock, HK, M&P, etc, but some circumstances do require a smaller weapon and I get that. I ended up selling my LCP because it just wasn't getting much use, and it was tiny and I'm not a fan of small pistols. For "my"uses I can dress around compact and full size guns for carry, even for when on my bike in the summer in South, FL.
There is nothing wrong with the G27 your buddy has, but if he does want/need something smaller there's nothing wrong with a boringly reliable revolver that you can carry in your pocket, apendix, IWB, ankle, etc.
Just my $0.02
Let us know what he decides.
:D
Robb Jensen
01-15-11, 17:55
Paul,
The new Kimber SOLO 9mm is something to consider as well. We just got this one in yesterday. I'll be shooting it tomorrow morning and giving it back to my boss on Monday. These will MSRP for $723 but I think we'll be selling them for $659 with our normal mark up. The trigger is very nice, it's striker fired and has a nice reset and does have a manual safety as well. I do wish it were checkered on the front and back strap but maybe that's in the works. Crimson Trace is working on a laser for it and I'm sure Mepro will have night sights for it very soon as well.
Here's some pics of it next to my custom Kimber Warrior .45 1911.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8045.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8044.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8047.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8050.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8046.jpg
brushy bill
01-15-11, 18:44
My interest is officially piqued.
Ditto...hopefully a fullsize, slim, single stack M&P will follow.
My Keltec P3AT is seven years old and has never let me down. FWIR, Ruger bought the design from KT so I don't think there is much difference between the two. One thing I will say about Keltec is that they have superior customer service.
Robb, if you find the time could put up a pic of it with another subcompact like the PM9 or LCP, or something else you have on hand?
Robb Jensen
01-15-11, 21:52
Robb, if you find the time could put up a pic of it with another subcompact like the PM9 or LCP, or something else you have on hand?
Here you go Ruger LCP, Kimber SOLO, Glock 19.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8055.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8058.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8059.jpg
Kimber SOLO 9mm and Ruger LCP .380
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8061.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8063.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8064.jpg
Kimber SOLO and Glock 19.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/IMG_8066.jpg
Excellent, thanks Robb. You get a chance to shoot it yet?
I cant wait to see what S&W drops at SHOT. Hope whatever it is that it will actually be available shortly (not like some of the optics I have been waiting for after last year).
Robb Jensen
01-15-11, 22:17
Excellent, thanks Robb. You get a chance to shoot it yet?
I cant wait to see what S&W drops at SHOT. Hope whatever it is that it will actually be available shortly (not like some of the optics I have been waiting for after last year).
Not yet. I'll be shooting the Kimber SOLO tomorrow. S&W is supposed to have a M&P single stack 9mm and a Bodyguard 9mm pistol. Ruger is also coming out with a LC9.
RioGrandeGreen
01-15-11, 22:49
We shot the Bersa 380 and it was pretty accurate from the 7 yard line. COM and head shots were easy. It did jam but it was a new gun. I would carry it after a couple of hundred rounds of 380 through it for reliability.
I have handled (but not shot) the Kimber Solo myself. My dealer got one in on Friday. Their price was $650ish IIRC. It was very interesting but I'm not a Kimber guy, esp for a $650 BUG.
The front and rear straps are both slick as ICE with no checkering. They would immediately require skateboard tape. The slide and frame are very de-horned (which is good) but the slide is also really slick. I can believe I'm saying this but it could prob use some FCS on it just to give you some traction.
I like the sights but NS will of course be an improvement. The trigger has an adequate feel. I suspect the weight will help manage recoil quite nicely. I could be wrong but the thumb safety looked like plastic and was an awkward looking/feeling design IMO. I really don't like that control. Engineering could have done a better job there.
I have every intention of getting a LC9 to try out but the S&W offerings will be interesting as well. I will be curious to see the specs and retail price.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd208/volgrad/mail-1.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd208/volgrad/mail.jpg
I have an LCP that really works well for when I can't carry anything bigger like when I'm wearing gym shorts. I've put approximately 400 rounds through it without a malfunction and I find it to be reasonably accurate.
The only real problem I had is after carrying it for a while IWB, with the frame mounted clip, the slide started to rust a little where it made contact with my skin. I don't really fault Ruger for this as I probably should have been better about wiping it down after carrying it. To head off future problems of this nature I had it NP3'd. The only other modification I want for it is a crimson trace laser.
I think it's a great little back up gun and I know a few guys at work who carry one with no complaints. All that being said, I still like my S&W 442 better which I carry as my BUG in a renegade ankle holster.
ETA: If you are thinking about getting it NP3'd I would reconsider as it makes the slide a little too slick for my tastes.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/25chuck/Weapons/IMG_1468mod1.jpg
Magic_Salad0892
01-16-11, 13:33
The Kimber SOLO looks nice, however, I'll let somebody else be the guinea pigs on that experiment, due to Kimber's track record.
I'd feel pretty well armed with a S&W bodyguard.
However, I'd much rather have a 9x19mm model than a .380 ACP.
I'm sure a .32 ACP gun wouldn't be any less lethal. (Though I'm pretty ignorant on that one.)
Out of all those - a Bulgarian, or German Makarov would be my choice. Or a Walther PPS.
9x18mm > .380 ACP.
Robb Jensen
01-16-11, 14:19
Well I put 200 rounds through the Kimber SOLO today.
50 rounds Prvi 158gr FMJ
50 rounds Speer Lawman 115 FMJ
50 rounds 124gr Montana Gold reloads
50 rounds of PMC 115 FMJ
Early on it had 4 stoppages for me. These were failure to ejects with the brass 1/2 way out of the chamber. The pistol was pretty dry and it did this on the 124gr Montana Gold reloads. I took the pistol apart and lube in generously with Weaponshield and then didn't experience and more stoppages.
My co-workers Friday night put 220 rounds through it with no stoppages. They also shot mostly hollow points.
The pistol feels a lot like shooting a Kahr PM9 for recoil. It's very accurate but really needs stippling or checkering on the front and back strap as it slides around a lot in the hand during recoil. I also dislike the ambi mag catch, like a Springfield XD it sort of rotates and is hard to remove the mag.
Magic_Salad0892
01-16-11, 14:21
Did the plastic safety a problem?
Would you recommend it to somebody as a carry gun?
Robb Jensen
01-16-11, 14:40
Did the plastic safety a problem?
Would you recommend it to somebody as a carry gun?
Safety caused no issues. I actually like the safety on this gun it positively goes on and off with a solid click either way. For someone wanting a small 9mm I would say yes check it out. They're supposed to make a stainless frame version too personally I'd probably prefer that one.
I have an LCP that really works well for when I can't carry anything bigger like when I'm wearing gym shorts. I've put approximately 400 rounds through it without a malfunction and I find it to be reasonably accurate.
The only real problem I had is after carrying it for a while IWB, with the frame mounted clip, the slide started to rust a little where it made contact with my skin. I don't really fault Ruger for this as I probably should have been better about wiping it down after carrying it. To head off future problems of this nature I had it NP3'd. The only other modification I want for it is a crimson trace laser.
I think it's a great little back up gun and I know a few guys at work who carry one with no complaints. All that being said, I still like my S&W 442 better which I carry as my BUG in a renegade ankle holster.
ETA: If you are thinking about getting it NP3'd I would reconsider as it makes the slide a little too slick for my tastes.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/25chuck/Weapons/IMG_1468mod1.jpg
Chuck if you dont mind what did you put into that
awm14hp,
I paid about $240 for the gun itself. Robar was running a sale on their "Norton Special" package when I dropped it off so I believe I paid about $200 for the work done but I'm sure I could dig up the receipt and find the exact price if you are interested.
bullitt5172
01-17-11, 08:27
I hope mine works :D
Suppose I'll have to track its progress.
I'd say LCP then OP!
My Diamondback has been flawless through 250 rounds. They seem to have fixed the majority of their issues. It is easy to shoot and accurate, moreso than any other little gun I have tried..
awm14hp,
I paid about $240 for the gun itself. Robar was running a sale on their "Norton Special" package when I dropped it off so I believe I paid about $200 for the work done but I'm sure I could dig up the receipt and find the exact price if you are interested.
No thats great thanks just looking for ball park thats all
dirksterg30
01-17-11, 08:44
Take a look at the Sig 232. Its a little big , but is a very reliable 380.
I don't see the point of carrying a .380 that large when you can carry a single-stack 9mm that is roughly the same size (Walther PPS, Kahr P9/PM9).
I don't see the point of carrying a .380 that large when you can carry a single-stack 9mm that is roughly the same size (Walther PPS, Kahr P9/PM9).
It also sucks to shoot. Fixed barrel design sucks ass.
tr1kstanc3
01-17-11, 14:28
Safety caused no issues. I actually like the safety on this gun it positively goes on and off with a solid click either way. For someone wanting a small 9mm I would say yes check it out. They're supposed to make a stainless frame version too personally I'd probably prefer that one.
How would you say it compares overall to the Kahr PM9?
I don't see the point of carrying a .380 that large when you can carry a single-stack 9mm that is roughly the same size (Walther PPS, Kahr P9/PM9).
As the OP wanted information on a 380 BUG I was just infroming him of a possible platform to look at. If he would of asked for information on a 9mm I would have suggested one of the firearms you mentioned above.
I have a SIG 230 which is the same size as the 232, but it would not make a great BUG, despite the fact it is a great tack driver.
My BUG .380 is the SIG P238. Great little gun, I've had no problem with it whatsoever. I carry it in an RKBA pocket holster and it conceals well and shoots first time every time.
It also sucks to shoot. Fixed barrel design sucks ass.
:confused: No doubt that, in the same caliber, a blow back pistol will recoil more vigorously than a locked breech weapon. But suck ass? How can a design that has been so widely adopted and copied over the last century suck ass?
brushy bill
01-17-11, 18:02
It also sucks to shoot. Fixed barrel design sucks ass.
I'm not sure I understand this...H&K P7 is fixed barrel as is Walther PPK series. Always thought this improved the inherent accuracy potential of the design, but willing to be educated to the contrary...
Had the Sig p238 in black nitron-sold it. Had the Taurus TCP-sold it. Bought a Ruger LCP-never looked back. I was one of those people that were debating on which BUG to get. I was about to purchase the Kahr p380 but just went with Ruger because the Kahr was too expensive. Let me just say this...unless you are looking for a specific feature that you absolutely need that the Kahr has and the Ruger doesn't, just go for the ruger. But if anyone is on the fence between a ridiculously expensive pocket pistol and the Ruger LCP, go for the Ruger. I guarantee you won't be disappointed. I learned this through buying and selling many pocket pistols.
:confused: No doubt that, in the same caliber, a blow back pistol will recoil more vigorously than a locked breech weapon. But suck ass? How can a design that has been so widely adopted and copied over the last century suck ass?
Locked breach pistols have less noticeable recoil. I couldn't believe how much my friend's 232 recoiled.
My opinion is blow back operated pistols suck because of the recoil!
Those who value reset qualities in trigger would likely be disappointed in Kimber Solo. It took me three slow releases to feel that reset.
Sig 230/232 gets the thumbs up from me. Yes, it is a little bigger than a lcp, but it is super accurate and very reliable. When choosing between the two available finishes of the 230/232, remember that the stainless version is slightly heavier than the blued finish. The weight difference was not significant enough for me and I've opted for the stainless version.
This may still be relevant to the topic since Rob posted about the Solo Carry:
In talking with Kimber about it @ SHOT, the rep specifically told us that it was designed to feed higher-pressure hollow point ammo, and even more specifically that it should be 124 Grain or heavier. He said it is also published in the manual. This should help mitigate all the errornet drama about "my new Kimber sucks 'cause it won't feed WWB 115gr".
Littlelebowski
01-26-11, 13:08
Any range reports on the S&W Bodyguard .380?
Robb Jensen
01-26-11, 15:20
Any range reports on the S&W Bodyguard .380?
Brett at VA Arms has one and he likes it and likes the sights better than the Ruger LCP. He doesn't like how the laser is activated.
PdxMotoxer
01-26-11, 15:55
I got to hold/feel a "Bodyguard .380" and as a Lefty i can say
i was NOT impressed.
The finger grooves didn't feel right in my hand and while at least the
laser switch is ambi the manual safety is not.
As for the LCP.....
lets just say for the price i enjoy mine so much i bought two.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/LCPs_Grass.jpg
I'm on over 800rds and NO issues that were not user caused.
(no i didn't change to wolf springs or feel the need to add anything other than the laser, and little feed ramp polishing)
This is my summer and throw in my front pocket and take the dog for a walk, or just run up to the store.
added bonus they have been out long enough there are plenty of holsters that fit WITH the laser to choose from.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.