Having a bad night... need help/opinions. [Archive]

Vegas

01-13-11, 01:24

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.... :mad:

http://gallery.me.com/mattbrown10/100032/CMMG%20Broken%20Lower/web.jpg?ver=12976607270002

I was attempting to install a Magpul Trigger Guard. I used a the correct size pin punch, hammer and placed on a rug. Whilst holding the lower I hit the punch, short and sharp, around 12 times with the last hit producing the above picture. I thought "Oh cool, got it out" when I felt it give. Nope! This is my first lower and I'm waiting on my upper to be delivered so I thought let me get the trigger guard in and receiver extension/stock installed and I'll be ready to go when it gets here. Have to say I am slightly surprised that the metal failed so easily as it wasn't like I was pounding on it.

So what next? Is this in anyway savable or usable? Will CMMG help me out do you think?

Thanks for any input you can provide and take it easy on the fng :p

Thanks,
Matt

Iraqgunz

01-13-11, 01:29

It's hard to say what they will say, but I would contact them. Did you support the ears of the trigger guard area? What type of punch did you use?

In the future I suggest that you lube the area thoroughly before attempting to remove the roll pin. I assume that is when it happened?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.... :mad:

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6826/cmmgbrokenlower.jpg

I was attempting to install a Magpul Trigger Guard. I used a the correct size pin punch, hammer and placed on a rug. Whilst holding the lower I hit the punch, short and sharp, around 12 times with the last hit producing the above picture. I thought "Oh cool, got it out" when I felt it give. Nope! This is my first lower and I'm waiting on my upper to be delivered so I thought let me get the trigger guard in and receiver extension/stock installed and I'll be ready to go when it gets here. Have to say I am slightly surprised that the metal failed so easily as it wasn't like I was pounding on it.

So what next? Is this in anyway savable or usable? Will CMMG help me out do you think?

Thanks for any input you can provide and take it easy on the fng :p

Thanks,
Matt

Pax

01-13-11, 01:29

Geeez. Sorry man. Look on the bright side, its a good excuse to tacticoolize your weapon with some billet sexiness.

Nobody_Special

01-13-11, 01:46

Vegas

01-13-11, 01:47

Iraqgunz

01-13-11, 01:51

Yes, unfortunately thatr one of the things that isn't really mentioned. I find it useful to use some lube before hand and a roll pin pin punch. You also need to support the ears of the trigger guard area.

I was just holding it in place with my left hand. I never thought to use lube, I must admit, as every video I had watched showed them coming out quite easily. I used a 1/8 pin punch.

Vegas

01-13-11, 01:52

You could try one of these. I've never used one myself but it will get you up and running

http://shop.starkequipment.com/product.sc;jsessionid=7A19A9302795DB765851A0BF04C46702.qscstrfrnt03?productId=1&categoryId=2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not too bad looking actually. It would suffice until I replace the lower. Ironically, when I was in my local store buying the trigger guard and other bits, I was checking out a complete LMT Defender lower and thinking to myself I need to find an excuse to buy that.... oops.

Frens

01-13-11, 02:14

ouch! :(
time for a Stark grip or an older MagpulMIAD w/ integrated trigger guard

Iraqgunz

01-13-11, 02:27

Here is the Brownells tutorial.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11638/learn/

Vegas

01-13-11, 02:34

ouch! :(
time for a Stark grip or an older MagpulMIAD w/ integrated trigger guard

I didn't know the MIAD could be bought with an integrated trigger guard. This would completely cover my mishap? I am assuming this won't affect the integrity of the lower in future use. My mishap, not the pistol grip :)

Here is the Brownells tutorial.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11638/learn/

Thanks for the link, wish I had seen this first instead of the couple of youtube vids. Neither used that kind of support. Aaaaaah, you live and learn! I usually like to learn from other peoples mistakes. At least that's what I teach in my line of business.

Buck

01-13-11, 03:05

If you are SOL with the CMMG you may want to try this...

Save the broken part. Carefully JB weld it into place so it does not show. Aquire an old style Magpul MAID that puts no stress on the area. The repaired break will be protected by the attached trigger guard on the MAID...

And tada... :thank_you2: More or less good as old, as long as you never change grips...

B

7098

Frens

01-13-11, 03:08

I didn't know the MIAD could be bought with an integrated trigger guard. This would completely cover my mishap? I am assuming this won't affect the integrity of the lower in future use. My mishap, not the pistol grip :)

it's a no loger made item...but there're still some out there

MistWolf

01-13-11, 03:25

If you decide to go the MIAD route, I have the integrated trigger guard part for it. The part I have is FDE. Send me a PM if interested as it's just laying around taking up space

Vegas

01-13-11, 03:28

If you decide to go the MIAD route, I have the integrated trigger guard part for it. The part I have is FDE. Send me a PM if interested as it's just laying around taking up space

Very kind of you to offer, I may take you up on that.

If you are SOL with the CMMG you may want to try this...

Save the broken part. Carefully JB weld it into place so it does not show. Aquire an old style Magpul MAID that puts no stress on the area. The repaired break will be protected by the attached trigger guard on the MAID...

And tada... :thank_you2: More or less good as old, as long as you never change grips...

B

7098

Thanks for the suggestion, that's definitely an option. I did a bit of searching and the older MIAD's are still attainable. I doubt I would want to change the grip at any point. The Stark would work too, so I have choices. I can see .22 upper in this lowers future ;) Will give the wife something to shoot!

Thanks for everyone's help on this, much appreciated, as immediately after I did it the thought crossed my mind that I was staring at a $200 LPK!

Icculus

01-13-11, 10:22

If you decide to go the MIAD route, I have the integrated trigger guard part for it. The part I have is FDE. Send me a PM if interested as it's just laying around taking up space

I also think I have one of the MIAD trigger guard inserts if you need it in foliage. Would just have to go digging through some boxes to see if I can find it.

SteveL

01-13-11, 12:21

Could anyone point me in the right direction where I could still buy an older MIAD? I'd be interested in one for the rifle I'm working on now.

Vegas

01-13-11, 12:24

I also think I have one of the MIAD trigger guard inserts if you need it in foliage. Would just have to go digging through some boxes to see if I can find it.

Many thanks also! I emailed CMMG last night so we will see what happens. My expectation is somewhat low but you never know.

Could anyone point me in the right direction where I could still buy an older MIAD? I'd be interested in one for the rifle I'm working on now.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, I believe this is it:

http://riflegear.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=121&SEName=magpul-miad-misson-adaptable-ar15m16-grip-full-kit

SteveL

01-13-11, 12:43

Someone correct me if I am wrong, I believe this is it:

http://riflegear.com/showproduct.aspx?ProductID=121&SEName=magpul-miad-misson-adaptable-ar15m16-grip-full-kit

I believe it is. Thanks.

Icculus

01-13-11, 12:54

Looks like Rainier Arms also still has some of the full kits in foliage only

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=214

SteveL

01-13-11, 12:59

Looks like Rainier Arms also still has some of the full kits in foliage only

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=214

Thanks but I already ordered one. I was looking for FDE.

ra2bach

01-13-11, 13:02

Vegas

01-13-11, 13:21

gluing the piece back on and using a MIAD will result in the piece coming off at some point. I would just go with a STARK grip which completely covers the affected area.

and next time, fully support that area. it's a common problem...

The Stark is a little different looking but will definitely do the job. I think my plan is to get the Stark and use the lower until I can splurge on the LMT lower my local store has. At $350 the price seems comparable to online prices when I factor in the FFL fee. I had planned to get a .22 upper for some cheap shooting and a second lower anyway. Just didn't want to do it quite so soon. :mad:

kwelz

01-13-11, 14:57

Wouldn't JB weld be almost as strong as the aluminum? Or am I giving it to much credit?

Buck

01-13-11, 19:42

Wouldn't JB weld be almost as strong as the aluminum? Or am I giving it to much credit?

Yes... In fact if you take your time and do it correctly JB Weld will be almost invisible and allow you to repair this receiver and use a standard or enhanced trigger guard... It is that strong... Using a old style MAID may give some additional piece of mind, and give you the look you were originally going for...

The OP may want o look a the JO Weld site for the exact space on the material...

B

Suwannee Tim

01-13-11, 20:31

Wouldn't JB weld be almost as strong as the aluminum? Or am I giving it to much credit?

No. JB Weld is an epoxy with a tensile stregnth of 5,000 psi maximum, probably closer to 3000. Aluminum has a minimum tensile stregnth of 10,000 psi, and a forged lower, at least 15,000 psi, maybe as high as 30,000 psi. I don't know what the alloy and heat treat is but you get the general idea. If you never exceed the few thousand psi strength of the JB weld it wouldn't break. I don't think this feature gets a lot of stress. If it breaks, you glue it back. I'd at least try.

bobbo

01-13-11, 20:52

Vegas

01-13-11, 22:00

Tough luck and an expensive lesson! I have the older MIAD trigger guard insert in black if you need it. So it looks like you have all the colors covered if you decide on Magpul over Stark. I wasn't aware that they discontinued including this insert with the MIAD kit.

Indeed it was but as long as don't it again... ;) Thanks for the offer, very kind of you. Either way I go, I'll definitely try to patch it up with some J-B Weld. I am now a bit curious as to how good this stuff is. The website says the tensile strength is 3960psi btw.

Mike4Alpha1

01-14-11, 12:33

ouch! :(
time for a Stark grip or an older MagpulMIAD w/ integrated trigger guard

Exactly what I was thinking.

lethal dose

01-14-11, 13:07

i'd contact cmmg before you do anything. i've never owned anything by them but a lot of mfgs will stand behind their products even if it is user error. good luck, keep us posted.

Vegas

01-14-11, 17:46

As of yet, no reply from CMMG via email. If I don't get anything back by Monday, I'll probably try calling them.

SKINJA11

01-14-11, 20:59

oops= i mean op,good buddy who is a great eod n swat guy but horrible gunsmither,broke his sig 556 in the same manner,brought it to me and said ,tony, steak dinner if you can fix this,took a triangle file put some contact grooves in the little tang,cleaned it with alchol,drove the pin thru mixed jb weld put trigger guard and piece in place,finished assembly, clamped it with my smallest c clamp,left it for a day ,he is still using it today and the porterhouse was awesome!;)

Vegas

01-19-11, 12:23

As of yet, no reply from CMMG via email. If I don't get anything back by Monday, I'll probably try calling them.

Minor update: I tried calling but had to leave a message with customer service. I am assuming they are all here in town for that little get together they having down on the strip :)

lethal dose

01-19-11, 12:25

keep on 'em.

hammonje

01-19-11, 12:36

I was just holding it in place with my left hand. I never thought to use lube, I must admit, as every video I had watched showed them coming out quite easily. I used a 1/8 pin punch.

You have to support the ears with a wood block. You botched it up pal. Suck it up and order another lower. Sorry. CMMG is not liable for your ignorance. The guide I used stated explicitly to support the ears.

I used Mobil1 5W-30 full synthetic as a lubricant during the procedure. Piece of cake once you have it supported as the energy goes into the pin and not to being bounced around.

Vegas

01-19-11, 13:05

You have to support the ears with a wood block. You botched it up pal. Suck it up and order another lower. Sorry. CMMG is not liable for your ignorance. The guide I used stated explicitly to support the ears.

I used Mobil1 5W-30 full synthetic as a lubricant during the procedure. Piece of cake once you have it supported as the energy goes into the pin and not to being bounced around.

Agreed and thanks. Already looking at an LMT lower which I plan to buy in the near future. I am fortunate that this mistake isn't going to break the bank for me.

I have to admit, I was surprised how little force it took to break the ear off. Next time I know it needs more support and I wish I had used the same guide you did or the Brownells vid that IG posted instead of the two youtube videos I watched. C'est la vie...

Atmosphere

01-19-11, 13:36

Instead of punches, try using a set of vice grips with electrical tape over the jaws. Place the bottom jaw between the ears (so you are only squeezing one ear to get it started), lube the hole and the pin, and get the pin started. Slip the trigger guard into place, move the vice grip to the other ear, and finish her up. I assembled a lower last night using the vice grips, and I thought the roll pins were the most annoying part of the entire process - even worse than the pivot pin detent.

madcratebuilder

01-19-11, 15:18

steak dinner if you can fix this,took a triangle file put some contact grooves in the little tang,cleaned it with alchol,drove the pin thru mixed jb weld put trigger guard and piece in place,finished assembly, clamped it with my smallest c clamp,left it for a day ,he is still using it today and the porterhouse was awesome!

Cutting a few grooves really helps the JB grip, I've fixed a few broker ears that way. Touch them up with some BC super black and they disappear.

Vegas

01-26-11, 19:55

After an email and two voicemails left, CMMG emailed me back saying that they would not cover this. No surprise really and certainly would not think ill of them for not but it was worth asking.

So, J-B Weld and a Stark Grip it is :) And a lesson learned.

Gunpowder

01-26-11, 20:47

Thanks for posting this. You may have saved me some money down the road.

Vegas

01-26-11, 21:34

Thanks for posting this. You may have saved me some money down the road.

If someone can learn from my mistake from reading this thread then something good came out of it.

goneballistic

01-26-11, 22:37

oh man that sucks! sorry about that, I always get worried driving those pins out. I think you have a good option using the MIAD grip, I'd JBWeld that thing in place, or epoxy it after drilling some tiny holes in the meeting faces and use the MIAD grip.

or a new lower is under 100 bucks now.

Vegas

02-03-11, 23:50

Thought I'd take a second to update the thread, post Stark install. I bought the Stark SE-2 from a seller on eBay, Vigilance Tactical. He shipped very quickly for anyone interested. I went with the SE-2 for the sling attachment which seemed worthwhile for the extra $10. It was an easy install. This time I watched the Brownells video on pistol grip install :)

Overall, I am really impressed with this product, the grip angle is nice, it installs snugly, has a plug for holding extra batteries and gives me an option for attaching a sling.

Now all I need is a delivery truck to show up at my door with my Daniels Defense Midlength upper and DD A1.5 rear sight that I ordered and I will be in good shape :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4101/5415284930_7d8437e924_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewbrown/5415284930/)
Saved CMMG Lower (http://www.flickr.com/photos/matthewbrown/5415284930/) by Happy about Stark SE-2 (http://www.flickr.com/people/matthewbrown/), on Flickr