View Full Version : S&B short dot on a mk18?
Am going to do a mk18 build soon and was wondering if uses a short dot on it would be a good idea? I was also wondering if the guys at Crane had ever done a set up like this? Or if anyone heard or had seen an operator with a short dot on a mk18?
Thanks,
Charlie
decodeddiesel
01-14-11, 16:06
I won't sugar coat this, putting a Short Dot on a MK18 would be a complete and utter waste, and absolutely ridiculous. I think it defeats the whole point of the MK18.
The closest I have seen from my research to "operators" using a 1-4x optic is the Elcan Spectre DR and even that it is like strapping a brick to the top of these little rifles. On a 14.5" M4, sure thing a Short Dot or an Elcan makes sense. On a 10.3" SBR? Not so much.
The MK18 is meant to be a small and compact, light weight, CQB specific weapon. A 1x, paralax free, red dot sight (read Aimpoint Micro in a lower 1/3 co-witness mount, or EOTech 553) is the way to go with these rifles I feel. YMMV and all that.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/decodeddiesel/MK18/IMG_6723.jpg
I won't sugar coat this, putting a Short Dot on a MK18 would be a complete and utter waste, and absolutely ridiculous. I think it defeats the whole point of the MK18.
The closest I have seen from my research to "operators" using a 1-4x optic is the Elcan Spectre DR and even that it is like strapping a brick to the top of these little rifles. On a 14.5" M4, sure thing a Short Dot or an Elcan makes sense. On a 10.3" SBR? Not so much.
The MK18 is meant to be a small and compact, light weight, CQB specific weapon. A 1x, paralax free, red dot sight (read Aimpoint Micro in a lower 1/3 co-witness mount, or EOTech 553) is the way to go with these rifles I feel. YMMV and all that.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/decodeddiesel/MK18/IMG_6723.jpg
Thanks for being honest. To be honest I thought it might be a little overkill too, but had seen a short dot on an sbr and thought it might be kinda cool. What are your thoughts on an eotech 557?
Id say well over 1/2 of the Mk18s I saw overseas had Elcans on them. The only short dot I ever saw was the one that I brought with me. If you take the time to do the range work and figure out how to use the BDC on the Elcan or S&B I dont see it as a waste at all.
Rick
Likewise, I will not sugarcoat this. Not to discount anyone's research, but in my experience being issued a Short Dot and a MK18 from 2005 until 2010, and taking them to fight more than a couple times...I saw quite a few S&Bs on short guns.
Nobody bats an eye at an ACOG on one...what's the difference? Because it looks more like a rifle scope? How is it any dumber than a magnifier? It's not.
In certain environments it allowed greatly increased situational awareness and target identification. I used one for certain roles and it worked well. Take a shot on a dude peeking over the wall atop a roof with a T1, and then do it with a 4X. Think about it in terms of giving you 4X more capability to ID a target with a weapon and give him the gas instead of being flanked and burned down. Think of being able to optically bring that low percentage target 4X closer. Useless? Not hardly. It let me kill more people than I would have been able to without it where i was working. Win.
Rifles the length of MK18s, 10" 416s, etc. can make reliable hits at ranges that benefit from magnification.
YM (and skills) MV. I can use one effectively on a short gun and gain benefit from it.
I won't sugar coat this, putting a Short Dot on a MK18 would be a complete and utter waste, and absolutely ridiculous. I think it defeats the whole point of the MK18.
The closest I have seen from my research to "operators" using a 1-4x optic is the Elcan Spectre DR and even that it is like strapping a brick to the top of these little rifles. On a 14.5" M4, sure thing a Short Dot or an Elcan makes sense. On a 10.3" SBR? Not so much.
The MK18 is meant to be a small and compact, light weight, CQB specific weapon. A 1x, paralax free, red dot sight (read Aimpoint Micro in a lower 1/3 co-witness mount, or EOTech 553) is the way to go with these rifles I feel. YMMV and all that.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b200/decodeddiesel/MK18/IMG_6723.jpg
What research have you done in regards to this subject?
red_star_republic
01-14-11, 23:09
A eotech 553 weighs about as much as a brick.
I got one of these when they were first released and quickly sold it.
If you're not worried about weight (or cost) then go for it!
Likewise, I will not sugarcoat this. Not to discount anyone's research, but in my experience being issued a Short Dot and a MK18 from 2005 until 2010, and taking them to fight more than a couple times...I saw quite a few S&Bs on short guns.
Nobody bats an eye at an ACOG on one...what's the difference? Because it looks more like a rifle scope? How is it any dumber than a magnifier? It's not.
In certain environments it allowed greatly increased situational awareness and target identification. I used one for certain roles and it worked well. Take a shot on a dude peeking over the wall atop a roof with a T1, and then do it with a 4X. Think about it in terms of giving you 4X more capability to ID a target with a weapon and give him the gas instead of being flanked and burned down. Think of being able to optically bring that low percentage target 4X closer. Useless? Not hardly. It let me kill more people than I would have been able to without it where i was working. Win.
Rifles the length of MK18s, 10" 416s, etc. can make reliable hits at ranges that benefit from magnification.
YM (and skills) MV. I can use one effectively on a short gun and gain benefit from it.
Thanks for the info and telling me about what you actually experienced. Its nice to get info from guys who actually used these rifles. I also had thought about getting an acog but thought a short dot might be nice because it doesn't have a fixed power. How close in did you use a mk18 with acog? Is it somewhat hard acquiring targets closer in, say like 50 yards and closer?
Charlie
I haven't used an ACOG since 2003, I used the S&B because it was more versatile.
The ability to go down to 1.1X on the S&B is key, and I do not like mounting another red dot on the ACOG (especially on top).
Man if you can afford a short dot get one. I have a Tr24g because the short dot is out if my price range. It is heavier but for a civilian not humpin it in the field I would not worry about it. It works much better with my astigmatism too.
parishioner
01-15-11, 18:55
Guru,
Is the 1-4x your preferred optic for a 10" gun or did you just find that for some applications, it works well?
Magic_Salad0892
01-16-11, 13:19
I recently got to use a friend's NF 1-4X on my 11.3'' (maybe .2'', I haven't actually measured it.) KAC host, and found it to be very valuable.
Beats the hell out of my ACOGs.
Was shooting 50-534 meters.
I was pretty happy about it.
Looks killer with a suppressor too.
That NF sight is what sold me on the S&B concept, and after fondling one I've decided to get one, (a Short Dot, not an NF) and mount it on the KAC 30mm one piece scope mount.
That said, I only have experience shooting an NF one on a 11'' gun, on the paper range.
M4Guru's opinions are much more valid than mine.
Guru,
Is the 1-4x your preferred optic for a 10" gun or did you just find that for some applications, it works well?
Normally I only use a T1 on my 10" gun. I am happy to know I have a 1-4x if I need it though. Mission drives the gear train, I might consider using one again for certain specific roles.
Generally I just dedicate my 14.5" to the S&B and call it good.
I had one on a 10" gun, and because I will never be like M4Guru, nor have his requirements, I went back to an Aimpoint because I was faster with it in the role I felt I would ever find myself in...
I wouldn't hesitate to use one, and was only slightly less fast inside of 200yds, but it felt slower, which was both a training and confidence issue. I used it in two Vicker's classes, and a 10-8 class.
I have also used an ACOG TA31F for a bit, and found that shooting on the move, or moving and inside of 7yds, was tedious and took every bit of concentration I had to make good hits, in good time.
Just a layman's viewpoint, but I have used them and have wrung them out as best I could to find out what worked and fit me best.
I recently got to use a friend's NF 1-4X on my 11.3'' (maybe .2'', I haven't actually measured it.) KAC host, and found it to be very valuable.
Beats the hell out of my ACOGs.
Was shooting 50-534 meters.
I was pretty happy about it.
Looks killer with a suppressor too.
That NF sight is what sold me on the S&B concept, and after fondling one I've decided to get one, (a Short Dot, not an NF) and mount it on the KAC 30mm one piece scope mount.
That said, I only have experience shooting an NF one on a 11'' gun, on the paper range.
M4Guru's opinions are much more valid than mine.
Just to clarify....the MK 18 in the thread title misleads to some to degree what I think this very valid and great discussion really is about. Rather than the MK 18 which leads some to think about the whole ridiculous "clone" thing, use SBR or 10.5" AR..etc.
I had this discussion awhile back when deciding if I wanted to go with a baby NXS on my MRP CQB 10.5" and long story short I am currently in the market for that very piece of glass after seeing what the little MRP/Rock 10.5" CL is doing on paper....it far exceeds the range capabilities than I had anticipated and I would not hesitate to jump out to 200-300m...GIVEN I had a baby nxs or a SB.
I am just gonna run the CQB w. both since I have the liberty of using ADM RTZ mounts with both optics.
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