Swatieson
01-16-11, 15:23
http://www.frfrogspad.com/cleaners.htm
Gun Cleaning Product Tests
In an effort to cut through some of the hype about gun cleaning products, the following information is presented for your enlightenment and enjoyment.
Fr. Frog's Rule of Chemicals: There are no magic cleaners nor lubricants.
That rule just about sums things up. No manufacturer with any brains would deliberately market a product that didn't work. The composition of barrel fouling and firearms "crud" is well known and there are lots of chemicals out there that will dissolve and/or remove them. Some might work a little better for certain types of fouling or under different conditions than others, but they all can do the job.
On my "There Ought to be a Law" page one of the things I bemoan is the plethora of variations of tooth pastes, shampoos, etc, that flood the market. Same with "gun chemicals." The reason for all the variations is, as Jeff Cooper use to say, "Why to sell you silly goose!" Everyone wants a cut of the pie and everyone who comes up with a "new" idea or two wants to market them, and thus all the gun cleaners, oils, and greases. Many of them are simply commercial products for other uses repackaged for the firearms trade. Interestingly, while a couple of companies have seen this page and have emailed me and claimed to have some "super" cleaner that was vastly better than everything else, only two have ever sent a sample for unbiased comparison testing and while they worked well they were nothing magical.
A lot of products are now packaged in aerosol cans which make them a bit easier to apply but in my opinion there is a lot of waste due to overspray and with the exception of degreasers I personally prefer regular liquids for most purposes.
I use to have a statement here that if you have a favorite cleaner or a product not tested here I'd be glad to test it. However, in the couple of years I've been doing that I haven't found a truly bad product so I no longer will do any testing.
When it comes right down to it, I have not seen any product that I wouldn't use to maintain my firearms but some work better for my purposes than others.
In the end, what matters the most is simply keeping your firearms clean. No matter what you use you'll also need to uses a little of the only known miracle cleaner, "elbow grease." Use the product you like or have on hand, follow good procedures, and let the ad copywriters battle it out--while you enjoy your clean firearms. While having an National Stock Number/NATO # is no guarantee of any particular performance, items with such designations have at least met military "standards" for performance and I tend to look with favor on such products, but not to any great extent.
It has also been suggested that I test lubricants, but after some thought I have decided not to do so. "Laboratory" tests have little relationship to real world use on firearms. I once saw a test of lubricants to determine their lubricating properties for firearms. The test involved a rotating shaft and a lubricated, load bearing piece that rubbed against the shaft until things seized up. Interestingly, one of the most popular and widely recommended and used firearms lubricants was among to poorest performers in this test. As with gun cleaners, the majority of lubricants offered for gun use are repackaged commercial products--with many simply being various synthetic lubricants originally designed for other applications. In my humble opinion, what lube you use is less important that how and where you use it.
The Tests
The solvents advertised as "cleaners" that were tested included: Accubore, Barnes CR-10, BreakFree CLP, Butch's Bore Shine, Ed's Red (a home brew), Hoppes #9 (current formula), generic brand household (3%) ammonia, generic brand janitor's strength (10%) ammonia, KG12, Kroil, Marksman's Choice MC-7, Marksman's Choice Copper Solvent, M-Pro 7, M-Pro 7 Copper Remover, ProTech, Sweets 7.62, and Sam & Dave's #1.. These tests were done in 4 parts parts. A copper solvent test, a copper fouling test, a carbon removing test, and a rust test test. While the test conditions may not perfectly simulate a dirty rifle bore they are standardized and repeatable and I believe the results provide a valid comparison of the various products. I addition, I've used all of these products to clean "real-world" firearms and the results match the findings of these tests. While not all are good for removing heavy copper fouling, all of them work well as a general gun and bore cleaner.
The Results
Normal Bore Cleaning - All of the products tested did an excellent job of removing normal barrel crud and fouling and were so close in performance that no listing is necessary.
Copper Removal Test - This test was done to ascertain whether a given cleaner dissolved copper. It was conducted using a piece 1/4 " copper tubing and patches moistened with equal amounts of each solvent. Starting with a clean piece of tubing a wetted patch was wrapped around the copper tube and was allowed to sit on the tube for 2 minutes. The patch was then rotated around the tube several times, removed, and allowed to air dry. The patch was examine for a "greenish," "bluish, or "brownish"" residue which indicates copper removal.
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6426/coppersolvent.jpg
In the interest of completeness the household ammonia wetted patch showed no discoloration after 2 minutes. Since ammonia is THE easy to obtain copper solvent the patch was left in contact for additional time and examined after every minute. At about 15 minutes the patch had developed a uniform very light blue--barely noticeable--discoloration. The ammonia / Ivory mix is 2 parts 10% ammonia, 1 part sudsy household ammonia, 1 part Ivory liquid dish soap.
KG12 is a non-ammonia based copper remover (using, I believe, organic acids, amines, and hydrocarbon citrus distillates as is M=Pro7 Copper Remover). KG 12from a company called KG Industries, LLC (www.kgcoatings.com) was designed for cleaning artillery pieces. They are the first product I've seen described as "non-ammonia based" that actually seem to work well. While they do not show "green" on the patch (I was advised that any discoloration would be tanish) and does not show a very dark stain on the patch. They definitely etched and dulled the surface of the test piece of polished copper tubing so they are attacking the copper. These products would be a good ones for folks who have "ammoniaphobia." The KG company did an interesting "test" where bullets were soaked in various commercial products and the KG12 definitely eats copper. While this may not accurately portray bore cleaning abilities of other products because bores are scrubbed too, it does show that this product aggressively attacks copper. It quickly and completely cleaned a friend's very badly copper fouled Garand, and the barrel of an UZI. M-Pro 7 Copper Remover is similar but doesn't seem to be as aggressive in its action in my testing but both are superior products.
Copper Fouling Test - This test was done to see if a given cleaner removed copper fouling without necessarily dissolving it. It was conducted with a clean and grease free piece of steel with a slightly textured finish which was exposed to a rotating piece of copper with approximately 10 pounds of pressures to generate a steak of copper on the surface of the steel. The copper smear was then rubbed vigorously with patches wetted with an equal amount of solvent and allowed to stand for 5 minutes. The sample was then rubbed briskly with another solvent wetted patch until the copper smear began to come off the metal onto the patch or 5 minutes elapsed, whichever came first. This test did not photograph well as the copper smears were faint and the amount of fouling removed was slight (small particles coming off or slight patch discoloration) so the results are tabulated instead by observed appearance.
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9606/copperfouling.jpg
After-rust Test - Using the sample strip from the above test the sample was allowed to remain exposed to air at 50% relative humidity for 48 hours. Any visible rust or etching was noted.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9163/rustr.jpg
Test Conditions - 48 hours exposed to air at 45-52 percent humidity at temperatures varying between 67 and 80 degrees
To further investigate reports of "damage" (so far unsubstantiated as far as I can tell) due to leaving ammonia based solvents in the bore too long I repeated the after-rust test but use a polished sample to see if any surface etching occurs. None of the solutions including 10 percent ammonia showed any visible signs of etching. It is my opinion that claims of bore damage were based upon the fact the the bore was initially rough an the extended use of copper removal solvents simple exposed the original rough bore. Besides after using a copper remover you should clean the bore normally. It has been reported to me by several correspondents that if there is any rust in the bore that ammonia based products can cause additional rusting (but then I don't let my bores rust).
Carbon Removal Test - A clean, grease free, steel strip was covered evenly with smokeless powder and the powder ignited. This was repeated 3 times. The strip was then heated to near red hot and allowed to cool to try and simulated actual burned on powder fouling. The resulting carbon smear was then rubbed lightly with patches wetted with an equal amount of solvent. (In addition, I was able to try the solvents on several AR15 gas system and the results were identical.) While all of the solvents removed the test fouling easily it was obvious that they all worked even better if allowed to soak for a minute or so.
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/42/carbon.jpg
Conclusions
I believe the results speak for themselves. The following points were noted. Of common regularly available "bore cleaners" that I tested only Accubore, Barnes CR-10, Butch's Bore Shine, MC-7, M-Pro 7, and Sweets showed any real ability to remove cooper fouling but none of them worked anywhere near the level of the KG12, M-Pro 7 Copper Remover, or ammonia based "copper solvent" solutions . No doubt that regular use would help to minimize copper fouling build up. Some of the solvents that did not show immediate ability to remove copper fouling may gradually lift it off after extended use but such tests are beyond the scope of this article. It has been reported by numerous users of the homebrew Ed's Red, that continued use seems to reduce any copper fouling and to make it much easier to remove.
Household ammonia will remove copper fouling but it is too weak a solution to have an useful affect within any reasonable time, but 10 percent janitorial strength "strong ammonia" works fine. (Household ammonia runs around 3 percent.) For really heavy copper fouling removal the best removal method is probably the Outers Foul Out electronic system. For more information on homemade solvents you can click here.
PAY ATTENTION!!!
It should go without saying that you should never use a brass rod, bore brush, or jag with copper removing solvents. (After all what is brass made of? DUH!).
And Since You Asked
After testing literally dozens of products I have settled on the following for my maintenance needs.
General Bore and Gun Cleaning - Ed's Red homebrew (made by the gallon and brushed, sprayed, or used to soak parts.)
Copper Fouling Removal - KG Coatings KG12, M-Pro 7 Copper Remover, 10% Ammonia/Ivory Soap mix
Heavy Carbon Buildup - Ed's Red, KG Coatings KG1, M-Pro 7 Cleaner
Lubrication (Grease)- TW25B grease and aerosol, Slip EWG, automotive moly lube (for sears)
Lubrication (Oil) -MC2500 (TW25B oil), SLIP EWL, 5W20 synthetic motor oil, ATF, or any handy "gun oil"
Degreasing - Walmart or other generic non-chlorinated "brake cleaner," 91% - 99% Isopropyl alcohol
Now what the heck am I going to do with all the bottles of other stuff? Maybe if I mix them all together I'll at last find the "miracle cleaner" everyone is looking for. (With my luck there'd be a 200 foot smoking crater where my shop was.)
Gun Cleaning Product Tests
In an effort to cut through some of the hype about gun cleaning products, the following information is presented for your enlightenment and enjoyment.
Fr. Frog's Rule of Chemicals: There are no magic cleaners nor lubricants.
That rule just about sums things up. No manufacturer with any brains would deliberately market a product that didn't work. The composition of barrel fouling and firearms "crud" is well known and there are lots of chemicals out there that will dissolve and/or remove them. Some might work a little better for certain types of fouling or under different conditions than others, but they all can do the job.
On my "There Ought to be a Law" page one of the things I bemoan is the plethora of variations of tooth pastes, shampoos, etc, that flood the market. Same with "gun chemicals." The reason for all the variations is, as Jeff Cooper use to say, "Why to sell you silly goose!" Everyone wants a cut of the pie and everyone who comes up with a "new" idea or two wants to market them, and thus all the gun cleaners, oils, and greases. Many of them are simply commercial products for other uses repackaged for the firearms trade. Interestingly, while a couple of companies have seen this page and have emailed me and claimed to have some "super" cleaner that was vastly better than everything else, only two have ever sent a sample for unbiased comparison testing and while they worked well they were nothing magical.
A lot of products are now packaged in aerosol cans which make them a bit easier to apply but in my opinion there is a lot of waste due to overspray and with the exception of degreasers I personally prefer regular liquids for most purposes.
I use to have a statement here that if you have a favorite cleaner or a product not tested here I'd be glad to test it. However, in the couple of years I've been doing that I haven't found a truly bad product so I no longer will do any testing.
When it comes right down to it, I have not seen any product that I wouldn't use to maintain my firearms but some work better for my purposes than others.
In the end, what matters the most is simply keeping your firearms clean. No matter what you use you'll also need to uses a little of the only known miracle cleaner, "elbow grease." Use the product you like or have on hand, follow good procedures, and let the ad copywriters battle it out--while you enjoy your clean firearms. While having an National Stock Number/NATO # is no guarantee of any particular performance, items with such designations have at least met military "standards" for performance and I tend to look with favor on such products, but not to any great extent.
It has also been suggested that I test lubricants, but after some thought I have decided not to do so. "Laboratory" tests have little relationship to real world use on firearms. I once saw a test of lubricants to determine their lubricating properties for firearms. The test involved a rotating shaft and a lubricated, load bearing piece that rubbed against the shaft until things seized up. Interestingly, one of the most popular and widely recommended and used firearms lubricants was among to poorest performers in this test. As with gun cleaners, the majority of lubricants offered for gun use are repackaged commercial products--with many simply being various synthetic lubricants originally designed for other applications. In my humble opinion, what lube you use is less important that how and where you use it.
The Tests
The solvents advertised as "cleaners" that were tested included: Accubore, Barnes CR-10, BreakFree CLP, Butch's Bore Shine, Ed's Red (a home brew), Hoppes #9 (current formula), generic brand household (3%) ammonia, generic brand janitor's strength (10%) ammonia, KG12, Kroil, Marksman's Choice MC-7, Marksman's Choice Copper Solvent, M-Pro 7, M-Pro 7 Copper Remover, ProTech, Sweets 7.62, and Sam & Dave's #1.. These tests were done in 4 parts parts. A copper solvent test, a copper fouling test, a carbon removing test, and a rust test test. While the test conditions may not perfectly simulate a dirty rifle bore they are standardized and repeatable and I believe the results provide a valid comparison of the various products. I addition, I've used all of these products to clean "real-world" firearms and the results match the findings of these tests. While not all are good for removing heavy copper fouling, all of them work well as a general gun and bore cleaner.
The Results
Normal Bore Cleaning - All of the products tested did an excellent job of removing normal barrel crud and fouling and were so close in performance that no listing is necessary.
Copper Removal Test - This test was done to ascertain whether a given cleaner dissolved copper. It was conducted using a piece 1/4 " copper tubing and patches moistened with equal amounts of each solvent. Starting with a clean piece of tubing a wetted patch was wrapped around the copper tube and was allowed to sit on the tube for 2 minutes. The patch was then rotated around the tube several times, removed, and allowed to air dry. The patch was examine for a "greenish," "bluish, or "brownish"" residue which indicates copper removal.
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6426/coppersolvent.jpg
In the interest of completeness the household ammonia wetted patch showed no discoloration after 2 minutes. Since ammonia is THE easy to obtain copper solvent the patch was left in contact for additional time and examined after every minute. At about 15 minutes the patch had developed a uniform very light blue--barely noticeable--discoloration. The ammonia / Ivory mix is 2 parts 10% ammonia, 1 part sudsy household ammonia, 1 part Ivory liquid dish soap.
KG12 is a non-ammonia based copper remover (using, I believe, organic acids, amines, and hydrocarbon citrus distillates as is M=Pro7 Copper Remover). KG 12from a company called KG Industries, LLC (www.kgcoatings.com) was designed for cleaning artillery pieces. They are the first product I've seen described as "non-ammonia based" that actually seem to work well. While they do not show "green" on the patch (I was advised that any discoloration would be tanish) and does not show a very dark stain on the patch. They definitely etched and dulled the surface of the test piece of polished copper tubing so they are attacking the copper. These products would be a good ones for folks who have "ammoniaphobia." The KG company did an interesting "test" where bullets were soaked in various commercial products and the KG12 definitely eats copper. While this may not accurately portray bore cleaning abilities of other products because bores are scrubbed too, it does show that this product aggressively attacks copper. It quickly and completely cleaned a friend's very badly copper fouled Garand, and the barrel of an UZI. M-Pro 7 Copper Remover is similar but doesn't seem to be as aggressive in its action in my testing but both are superior products.
Copper Fouling Test - This test was done to see if a given cleaner removed copper fouling without necessarily dissolving it. It was conducted with a clean and grease free piece of steel with a slightly textured finish which was exposed to a rotating piece of copper with approximately 10 pounds of pressures to generate a steak of copper on the surface of the steel. The copper smear was then rubbed vigorously with patches wetted with an equal amount of solvent and allowed to stand for 5 minutes. The sample was then rubbed briskly with another solvent wetted patch until the copper smear began to come off the metal onto the patch or 5 minutes elapsed, whichever came first. This test did not photograph well as the copper smears were faint and the amount of fouling removed was slight (small particles coming off or slight patch discoloration) so the results are tabulated instead by observed appearance.
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9606/copperfouling.jpg
After-rust Test - Using the sample strip from the above test the sample was allowed to remain exposed to air at 50% relative humidity for 48 hours. Any visible rust or etching was noted.
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9163/rustr.jpg
Test Conditions - 48 hours exposed to air at 45-52 percent humidity at temperatures varying between 67 and 80 degrees
To further investigate reports of "damage" (so far unsubstantiated as far as I can tell) due to leaving ammonia based solvents in the bore too long I repeated the after-rust test but use a polished sample to see if any surface etching occurs. None of the solutions including 10 percent ammonia showed any visible signs of etching. It is my opinion that claims of bore damage were based upon the fact the the bore was initially rough an the extended use of copper removal solvents simple exposed the original rough bore. Besides after using a copper remover you should clean the bore normally. It has been reported to me by several correspondents that if there is any rust in the bore that ammonia based products can cause additional rusting (but then I don't let my bores rust).
Carbon Removal Test - A clean, grease free, steel strip was covered evenly with smokeless powder and the powder ignited. This was repeated 3 times. The strip was then heated to near red hot and allowed to cool to try and simulated actual burned on powder fouling. The resulting carbon smear was then rubbed lightly with patches wetted with an equal amount of solvent. (In addition, I was able to try the solvents on several AR15 gas system and the results were identical.) While all of the solvents removed the test fouling easily it was obvious that they all worked even better if allowed to soak for a minute or so.
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/42/carbon.jpg
Conclusions
I believe the results speak for themselves. The following points were noted. Of common regularly available "bore cleaners" that I tested only Accubore, Barnes CR-10, Butch's Bore Shine, MC-7, M-Pro 7, and Sweets showed any real ability to remove cooper fouling but none of them worked anywhere near the level of the KG12, M-Pro 7 Copper Remover, or ammonia based "copper solvent" solutions . No doubt that regular use would help to minimize copper fouling build up. Some of the solvents that did not show immediate ability to remove copper fouling may gradually lift it off after extended use but such tests are beyond the scope of this article. It has been reported by numerous users of the homebrew Ed's Red, that continued use seems to reduce any copper fouling and to make it much easier to remove.
Household ammonia will remove copper fouling but it is too weak a solution to have an useful affect within any reasonable time, but 10 percent janitorial strength "strong ammonia" works fine. (Household ammonia runs around 3 percent.) For really heavy copper fouling removal the best removal method is probably the Outers Foul Out electronic system. For more information on homemade solvents you can click here.
PAY ATTENTION!!!
It should go without saying that you should never use a brass rod, bore brush, or jag with copper removing solvents. (After all what is brass made of? DUH!).
And Since You Asked
After testing literally dozens of products I have settled on the following for my maintenance needs.
General Bore and Gun Cleaning - Ed's Red homebrew (made by the gallon and brushed, sprayed, or used to soak parts.)
Copper Fouling Removal - KG Coatings KG12, M-Pro 7 Copper Remover, 10% Ammonia/Ivory Soap mix
Heavy Carbon Buildup - Ed's Red, KG Coatings KG1, M-Pro 7 Cleaner
Lubrication (Grease)- TW25B grease and aerosol, Slip EWG, automotive moly lube (for sears)
Lubrication (Oil) -MC2500 (TW25B oil), SLIP EWL, 5W20 synthetic motor oil, ATF, or any handy "gun oil"
Degreasing - Walmart or other generic non-chlorinated "brake cleaner," 91% - 99% Isopropyl alcohol
Now what the heck am I going to do with all the bottles of other stuff? Maybe if I mix them all together I'll at last find the "miracle cleaner" everyone is looking for. (With my luck there'd be a 200 foot smoking crater where my shop was.)