View Full Version : HKs built in New Hampshire?
Saw this the other day and I'm surprised there hasn't been more made of this on the major gun forums (unless maybe I just missed it?):
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070823/NEWS/70823011
If HK is partnering with Wilcox, I suspect that we'll not only see the HK.45 in the near future but it may open the door to US manufactured 416s?
Anyone with any info on this want to chime in? Thanks.
K
it may open the door to US manufactured 416s?
K
Not unless Wilcox produces hammer forged barrels.
Not unless Wilcox produces hammer forged barrels.
I've got a feeling that HK might be willing to drop the hammer forged barrels for US sales.
hkpro.com
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65748
Alpha Sierra
08-29-07, 05:11
Not unless Wilcox produces hammer forged barrels.
Who says the barrel needs to be made by Wilcox? They can be imported from wherever HK gets them.
Hammer forging barrels ain't exactly rocket science. Remington does them by the truckloads. In any case, most of the hype attributed to hammer forged barrels is BS. The main reason they are used so much is that the machinery is perfect for high volume production, unlike button and cut rifling.
I would be willing to bet that this is merely a political ploy by H&K to blackmail the gov't to buy their guns. Nothing like having "manufacturing jobs at risk" to exercize political power in key districts.
H&K has been conducting a "full-court-press" to get the US military to adopt their weapons for some time now. Thus, all the negative M4 articles we've seen regurgitated, lately, as well as the arm-twisting going on by certain senators and journalists.
AR15barrels
08-29-07, 11:46
Who says the barrel needs to be made by Wilcox? They can be imported from wherever HK gets them.
I thought that you can't import barrels anymore.
That's why the price of surplus "parts kits" (FAL's, AK's etc...) are going up and US made barrels are starting to be produced for some of these.
Who says the barrel needs to be made by Wilcox? They can be imported from wherever HK gets them.
Hammer forging barrels ain't exactly rocket science. Remington does them by the truckloads. In any case, most of the hype attributed to hammer forged barrels is BS. The main reason they are used so much is that the machinery is perfect for high volume production, unlike button and cut rifling.
Easy there kids...
Part of the issue with importing the hammer forged barrels is that BATF has determined that the barrel now needs to be made in the states (for the rifle to be allowed for civilian sales).
While it may not be rocket science it DOES produce a stronger barrel. I won't argue accuracy, or even life span, but a hammer forged barrel is stronger. Does it matter? It seems to for HK (right, wrong or indifferent).
After working as a contractor for HK for 8 years I can tell you that they are unyielding in compromising on something they feel strongly about (again, right, wrong or indifferent). I'm not defending them, just stating some observations.
Now if they were just as stubborn about providing GOOD customer service they might actually have something...
You got the customer service part right ,I can remember when they were worse than they are now (1999) so things are improveing on that front . my last repair on a USP 45C only took a month and I didn't feel they were talking down to me this time on the phone, i guess being humble is hard when you are never wrong .
Both the Germans and the Japanese share that trait. They strive so hard for engineering perfection that when something goes wrong, their first instinct is to deny that their "perfect" product can possibly be at fault.
Try to get customer service on a Toyota product, sometime.
Both the Germans and the Japanese share that trait. They strive so hard for engineering perfection that when something goes wrong, their first instinct is to deny that their "perfect" product can possibly be at fault.
Try to get customer service on a Toyota product, sometime.
I think I like that way of thinking better than Ford's on my F350. It's pretty much: "Hey you were dumb enough to buy a Ford so now you have to pay to play."
olds442tyguy
08-30-07, 14:58
Like I told an HK rep on their forums. Make everything here, but import the cold hammer forged barrel blanks and have the final barrel machining done here.
If you ask me, this could possibly be an act of desperation. 416 interest seems to be plummeting in the MIL, and LE sales are limited. Then look how many have ended up in civilian hands from departments not being happy with them and trading them off for other rifles.
Their biggest US market for the 416 is probably a tie between LE and civilians. Maybe HK will finally take advantage of the hundreds of millions of dollars they have shrugged off the past 18 years.
If you ask me, this could possibly be an act of desperation. 416 interest seems to be plummeting in the MIL, and LE sales are limited.
I don't know were you got this impression. I know for a fact HK cannot keep them on the shelves due to very good Mil & LE sales. Right now they are quoting three months delivery time from initial order date.
Then look how many have ended up in civilian hands from departments not being happy with them and trading them off for other rifles.
:confused:
What department has traded in their HK416's? I highly doubt this information.
Don't be confused by the large number of uppers on the civilian market and think that’s because Departments are "turning them back in". That has more to do with dealers wheeling & dealing for the big money uppers are getting on the second hand market.
:D
Internet forum information about the HK416/417 is for the most part worthless. My advice is to ignore it. 90% is posted by guys who have not got a clue and the other 10% are trying to steer you into buying something else.
I could not name a single firearm that has more incorrect information or sometimes even misinformation posted about it.
olds442tyguy
08-30-07, 16:01
Granted it was on the internet, but I was told the last batch of 416's available were from a department that was trading in for regular AR's.
1st BN and 1st SFG recently rejected the 416 entirely after testing it.
I can't rag on the 416 because I haven't even seen one in real life, but it looks to me like the 416 is just a good rifle that's way over hyped. Don't get me wrong though. If there was an LMT 10.5 and an HK 10.5 in front of me, I'd grab the 416 with a grin. I'm just not as impressed with a piston driven AR as all of the piston driven companies say I should be.
Then again, I guess I'm kind of biased seeing as reliability is one of the few complaints about the AR15 I don't have.
I'm glad about the HK45 though. No one makes a good polymer semi compact 45, and the HK45C looks phenomenal.
1st BN and 1st SFG recently rejected the 416 entirely after testing it.
Wrong. They put them in the hands of an entire company. I have seen them in the last 3 days.
Yawn...... let me know when you find 1K cases of 5.56mm at $200 apiece again.. then I'll get excited....:)
olds442tyguy
08-30-07, 17:45
Wrong. They put them in the hands of an entire company. I have seen them in the last 3 days.
It's my understanding that they only received "testing units" prior to complete contractual agreements of an official solicitation.
If you look at the last entry to the solicitation, it's a cancellation of the entire program.
http://www1.fbo.gov/spg/USAF/PAF/18CONS/FA5270-07-R-0009/Attachments.html
Olds, listen to M4Guru.
That Internet hearsay/misinformation kills brain cells.
:D
olds442tyguy
08-30-07, 17:52
Olds, listen to M4Guru.
That Internet hearsay/misinformation kills brain cells.
:D
They canceled the mass of their order and dumped the contract, and it's documented by the government though? :confused:
Since HK sold their civilan part, if the non military side is licensed to build it I bet we will see them.
Your understanding is probably wrong since I doubt you've procured weapons for an SF unit before.
Here's your clues:
1. I saw them. A lot of them. I know where they came from.
2. This is a procurement system I deal with on a daily basis.
Jay Cunningham
08-30-07, 18:21
Your understanding is probably wrong since I doubt you've procured weapons for an SF unit before.
Here's your clues:
1. I saw them. A lot of them. I know where they came from.
2. This is a procurement system I deal with on a daily basis.
Hence the "Industry Professional" monniker, I would imagine...
olds442tyguy
08-30-07, 18:30
Your understanding is probably wrong since I doubt you've procured weapons for an SF unit before.
Here's your clues:
1. I saw them. A lot of them. I know where they came from.
2. This is a procurement system I deal with on a daily basis.
Calm down brother, I apologize if I offended you. :)
What am I missing though? A documented cancellation of solicitation looks pretty cut and dry to me, but I don't procure weapons for a living.
Contracts can be canceled for a number of reasons, but it doesn't mean they are dead in the water. If changes are drastic enough it sometimes can warrant a new contract. Approving (read: paying for) authority may change, delivery dates, quantities, actual end-users within a unit change, vendors change, modifications to the product contracted for are desired, pricing changes, whomever is driving the solicitation suddenly gets too lazy to deal with it, the product was found elsewhere or purchased by other means, different pots of money are used to pay for them, the list goes on and on. Sometimes it's easier to get the Uncle Sugar to pay for stuff without even going through the hassle of a contract such as the one on the web site.
Contracts are a pain in the ass, in short. I'm throughly convinced the military would already have new weapons systems across the board if it wasn't such a nightmare to get them.
olds442tyguy
08-30-07, 18:46
Could a solicitation possibly be canceled for manufacturer developments?
(IE; Contract was going to be awarded to HK Germany but may possibly be awarded to HK USA and/or Wilcox Industries.)
Sure, theoretically it could. Wilcox isn't making 416s yet (if ever) and HK Germany would usually refer an HK customer to HK USA before actually negotiate a deal.
Basically anything can cancel these things until it is fulfilled and closed.
If Wilcox could make the 416 that would be a good deal. I deal with Wilcox regularly for NV mounts and they are top notch in both service and quality.
I hope Wilcox comes thru, so I can do something cool with my Form 1 :cool:
QuickStrike
10-03-07, 01:38
Maybe I should start saving for an upper... :cool:
Good idea. Save for a US-built HK 416 upper, put the money in a mutual fund, and 30 years from now, retire as a millionaire.
Probably the best gun idea I've ever heard....
QuickStrike
10-03-07, 01:50
Good idea. Save for a US-built HK 416 upper, put the money in a mutual fund, and 30 years from now, retire as a millionaire.
Probably the best gun idea I've ever heard....
Millionaire at 53, NOT BAD! :D
well, either that or just for sh!ts and giggles...
Come on, I know most here would probably buy an upper if they were made here/more affordable, like say around 1k?
Millionaire at 53, NOT BAD! :D
well, either that or just for sh!ts and giggles...
Come on, I know most here would probably buy an upper if they were made here/more affordable, like say around 1k?
Okay, let me say it more slooooowly. The alleged HK "partnership" with Wilcox Industries is just a way to influence congress-critters to give them favorable treatment in possible new weapons purchases.
I doubt if they will EVER produce a single weapon.
QuickStrike
10-03-07, 02:36
Okay, let me say it more slooooowly. The alleged HK "partnership" with Wilcox Industries is just a way to influence congress-critters to give them favorable treatment in possible new weapons purchases.
I doubt if they will EVER produce a single weapon.
Blah.. you're probably right.
O well, there are other piston designs. :o
Okay, let me say it more slooooowly. The alleged HK "partnership" with Wilcox Industries is just a way to influence congress-critters to give them favorable treatment in possible new weapons purchases.
I doubt if they will EVER produce a single weapon.
Hater. :D
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