View Full Version : Bar-Sto match barrels for the M&P9???
A while back there was some info about Bar-Sto releasing a match barrel for the M&P platform. I firmly believe this is something that is badly needed for the 9mm M&P.
I consider myself a "Good" shooter with a firm grasp on the fundamentals of pistol shooting. Both of my M&P9's, along with every other one I have shot doesn't hold a good group out past about 20yds. My M&P45 was far more accurate than my 9's are @ 25yds. I shoot much better groups @ 25yds with a borrowed Glock 9mm than I do with my M&P9's.
I have heard multiple other reports of substandard accuracy with the 9mm M&P's. I love the platforms ergo's, and the Apex DCAEK kit gives it the sweetest polymer pistol trigger available in my opinion, but the sub-par accuracy of the 9mm's has me considering a switch to a new pistol platform.
G34Shooter
01-21-11, 15:27
A while back there was some info about Bar-Sto releasing a match barrel for the M&P platform. I firmly believe this is something that is badly needed for the 9mm M&P.
I consider myself a "Good" shooter with a firm grasp on the fundamentals of pistol shooting. Both of my M&P9's, along with every other one I have shot doesn't hold a good group out past about 20yds. My M&P45 was far more accurate than my 9's are @ 25yds. I shoot much better groups @ 25yds with borrowed a Glock 9mm than I do with my M&P9's.
I have heard multiple other reports of substandard accuracy with the 9mm M&P's. I love the platforms ergo's, and the Apex DCAEK kit gives it the sweetest polymer pistol trigger available in my opinion, but the sub-par accuracy of the 9mm's has me considering a switch to a new pistol platform.
Looks like we'll be waiting a long time :(
Irv Stone told a friend of mine who's known him a long time that the reason there were no barrels for the M&P because S&W wouldn't send him one. So my friend boxed his personal M&P up and sent it to Irv to pattern a barrel off of. Hopefully it won't be too long.
G34Shooter
01-21-11, 15:44
Truth be told, there should have been something at SHOT and there is not.
taking the human element out, has anyone shot the m&p for accuracy from a rest?
while everyone's standards may be different, if it is a service pistol and i can keep it around 4" at 25yds, it is acceptable to me.
A while back there was some info about Bar-Sto releasing a match barrel for the M&P platform. I firmly believe this is something that is badly needed for the 9mm M&P.
I consider myself a "Good" shooter with a firm grasp on the fundamentals of pistol shooting. Both of my M&P9's, along with every other one I have shot doesn't hold a good group out past about 20yds. My M&P45 was far more accurate than my 9's are @ 25yds. I shoot much better groups @ 25yds with borrowed a Glock 9mm than I do with my M&P9's.
I have heard multiple other reports of substandard accuracy with the 9mm M&P's. I love the platforms ergo's, and the Apex DCAEK kit gives it the sweetest polymer pistol trigger available in my opinion, but the sub-par accuracy of the 9mm's has me considering a switch to a new pistol platform.
I called Bar Sto earlier this week about this--they're in the process and are taking names for a list when they do come out. Irv was out, so they couldn't give a more definitive answer other then they're in the works.
I called Bar Sto earlier this week about this--they're in the process and are taking names for a list when they do come out. Irv was out, so they couldn't give a more definitive answer other then they're in the works.
Cool. I will give them a call nextweek to add my name to their list. Hopefully the more potential orders that call in will motivate them to make this happen sooner.
Has anyone tried the KKM match barrels for the M&P? What is their quality like for their other barrels (Glock, etc.)?
vicious_cb
01-21-11, 22:06
What about the Storm Lake barrels? Anyone test those for accuracy?
Cool. I will give them a call nextweek to add my name to their list. Hopefully the more potential orders that call in will motivate them to make this happen sooner.
Has anyone tried the KKM match barrels for the M&P? What is their quality like for their other barrels (Glock, etc.)?
I have a KKM 9mm match barrel in my Glock and it is phenomenal. Fit and finish is outstanding.
I have not shot any other barrel than the stock on my M&Ps but I have heard many say that their groups got better with the Storm Lake barrel. I believe that Storm Lake and now S&W are the only ones making threaded barrels for the M&P, right?
I have never heard or seen anyone with a KKM barrel. Some accuracy tests would be awesome.
I have several Bar-Sto barrels and have been happy with all of them. Several guys I shoot with have KKM's and they're happy with them.
I bought a Storm Lake M&P .40 barrel because it was the only "match" grade barrel available at the time. While it did improve accuracy, the chamber was too tight, causing malfs and the barrel hood still didn't fit well enough for me to consider it match grade. I dumped it and went back to the stock barrel.
I have several Bar-Sto barrels and have been happy with all of them. Several guys I shoot with have KKM's and they're happy with them.
I bought a Storm Lake M&P .40 barrel because it was the only "match" grade barrel available at the time. While it did improve accuracy, the chamber was too tight, causing malfs and the barrel hood still didn't fit well enough for me to consider it match grade. I dumped it and went back to the stock barrel.
I bought a SL .40 S&W barrel because the stock barrel's accuracy was very poor with heavy loads, and they were all that was available as well.
Lockup is tighter, and I haven't had any malfs. with the new barrel, but I second your opinon about the barrel hood. It's not a true "match" barrel, but it is, as least for me, a large improvement over stock.
I bought a SL .40 S&W barrel because the stock barrel's accuracy was very poor with heavy loads, and they were all that was available as well.
Lockup is tighter, and I haven't had any malfs. with the new barrel, but I second your opinon about the barrel hood. It's not a true "match" barrel, but it is, as least for me, a large improvement over stock.
I should clarify that I was running mostly reloaded ammo in mine, being a high volume match shooter. I run an EGW undersize die and Lee factory crimp die, so 99.9% of my reloads pass the chamber guage checker. They work fine in a Bar-Sto, but they choked in the Storm Lake.
Nick what ammo are you shooting, any hotter or heavier ammo or just standard pressure 115gr?
I should clarify that I was running mostly reloaded ammo in mine, being a high volume match shooter. I run an EGW undersize die and Lee factory crimp die, so 99.9% of my reloads pass the chamber guage checker. They work fine in a Bar-Sto, but they choked in the Storm Lake.
I shoot what I'd call a moderate volume of ~12K of .40 S&W annually, and all of mine is also reloaded in mixed brass.
I don't run a EGW die, just a Hornady CGND die with the Lee FCD, and anything that passes my chamber guage also shoots fine in the Storm Lake barrel.
I might have gotten lucky with mine, but so far I've been pleased with the SL. It'll run MG 180's with light loads of TG accurately and reliably for me, which is what I was after.
The only thing my factory barrel would shoot well was Nosler 135s travelling at ~1150+ fps.
Nick, I fully agree, my M&P 9 was also lacking in the accuracy department. When I spoke with BarSto in September/October they stated they were looking at production of an M&P barrel after the new year (2011), but with their recent move I wouldn't be holding my breath for a delivery date. That is by no means a dig on BarSto, just a reality.
I tried a Storm Lake barrel in a FS M&P9, reliability was 100% but didn't see much accuracy improvement.
Hate to throw a wet blanket on the party but I was told the same thing by Bar-Sto two years ago.
If you're looking for more accuracy Nick, you might get a hold of Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron. He is welding barrels up to improve lock-up.
http://www.accurate-iron.com/
I do not have any accuracy problems. I can hit 3in groupings at 25yds and that is the best I have done with any handgun. I am thinking on buying a threaded barrel but still looking for best prices. So far the best price is $185.99 on a Storm Lake but will look on the factory one.
As far as I know the top barrel manufacturers were (still are?!?) Bar Sto, Jarvis and KKM (in no particular order).
Although these manufacturers make excellent match barrels, I would never run one in a gun used for self-defense.
Increased accuracy is obtained by tightening tolerances which almost always goes against reliability.
I tried a Storm Lake barrel in a FS M&P9, reliability was 100% but didn't see much accuracy improvement.
Hate to throw a wet blanket on the party but I was told the same thing by Bar-Sto two years ago.
If you're looking for more accuracy Nick, you might get a hold of Mike Cyrwus at Accurate Iron. He is welding barrels up to improve lock-up.
http://www.accurate-iron.com/
A big +1 for Mike. I know him personally and have his work on several guns. Great guy with great gunsmithing skills!
Well, after much deliberation & delay I decided to order a barrel from KKM after speaking with a couple of trusted sources on the subject.
I will report back after my first range session with the new barrel....
Well....
I finally got to shoot some accuracy drills with each barrel the other night. I started off by shooting the "Dot Torture Drill at 3 yards. All of my rounds fired at the #1 dot hit about 1 & 1/2 inch low/left of the dot. Okay, maybe im off to a bad start and am anticipating a bit, I thought.... Dot #2 same thing. I needed to hold 1 & 1/2 inch outside of each dot at about 1 o'clock in order to get my rounds to hit inside of each dot. I ended up shooting a horrendous 37/50 with the KKM barrel. I then installed the stock barrel and I shot it clean 50/50.
I proceeded to shoot a group at 25 feet with each barrel from a supported position. They both shot nearly identical sized groups, but the KKM's group was nearly 3 inches low and slightly left of my point of aim.
I inspected both barrels for fit to the slide of my M&P9, and the stock barrel actually locked-up noticeably tighter than the KKM did. I am now of the opinion that "Drop-in/Match" barrels are a waste of money at worst, and a crap shoot at best. Unless you have the barrel custom fitted to your specific slide, you dont know what you will get.
That's a bummer. Thanks for posting the update.
An update on the Bar-Sto barrels: I spoke with Irv this past week about what I have observed regarding accuracy. We both agreed that the dwell time and twist rate are areas of improvement.
I'm hoping to see test barrels within the next 3 months. If fitting and accuracy testing go as planned, you should see barrels sometime before the end of the year.
-Randy
mkmckinley
03-20-11, 01:15
That's damn exciting. Any idea if they will be drop in or gunsmith fit?
Wayne Dobbs
03-20-11, 16:46
Randy,
That's good news. I'm on the Bar Sto list of folks that want an M&P barrel when they're available. I want you to fit it when they're ready. And....hopefully you'll have your sear housing and/or locking blocks available by then???
Randy,
That's good news. I'm on the Bar Sto list of folks that want an M&P barrel when they're available. I want you to fit it when they're ready. And....hopefully you'll have your sear housing and/or locking blocks available by then???
Hi Wayne,
So far, my accuracy testing with the factory barrel has been abysmal. Bruce Gray shot a few 50yd groups with a variety of factory ammo in AL. My 9L would shoot no better than 8" with Gold Dot. CCI Blazer brass was worst, with some rounds not even hitting paper(full size USPSA target). Anyone who knows Bruce knows he can shoot tiny groups if the gun is up to it.
The sear and locking blocks should be out about the same time.
We will be stocking only the M/T or "gunsmith" fit Bar-Stos once they are in production. Due to the tolerance variations between slides and frames, fitting an oversized barrel to an individual gun is the only way to guarantee accuracy improvement.
-Randy
Wayne Dobbs
03-21-11, 08:50
Put me in line for the "full Monty". Bruce is a good friend and I know how well he shoots.
My M&P9 is about a 6" gun at 25 yards on a great day. It needs some serious work...
An update on the Bar-Sto barrels: I spoke with Irv this past week about what I have observed regarding accuracy. We both agreed that the dwell time and twist rate are areas of improvement.
I'm hoping to see test barrels within the next 3 months. If fitting and accuracy testing go as planned, you should see barrels sometime before the end of the year.
-Randy
Randy, do you know if the 4.25" version of the 9mm is prone to the same issues? How about in .40 S&W?
Put me in line for the "full Monty". Bruce is a good friend and I know how well he shoots.
My M&P9 is about a 6" gun at 25 yards on a great day. It needs some serious work...
Wayne,
Will do. I thought you might know Bruce.:p
-Randy
Randy, do you know if the 4.25" version of the 9mm is prone to the same issues? How about in .40 S&W?
Accuracy seems to be hit and miss. Some guns are accurate while others like Wayne's and my personal 9L are less than satisfactory. IMHO the changes in barrel/slide dwell time will improve accuracy the most. From what I have observed, barrels such as KKM and Storm Lake show some improvement in accuracy, but drop ins cannot compensate for the wide range of slide to frame clearances I see in samples here in the shop. I think that is why some guns will show improvement, while others do not.
As far as the .40s, I will let you know. I am working on an R&D .40 now.
-Randy
Randy, or anyone else who might know....
Why is it that the .45 M&P's seem to be far more accurate from the factory than their 9mm counterparts?
Randy, or anyone else who might know....
Why is it that the .45 M&P's seem to be far more accurate from the factory than their 9mm counterparts?
I think the 45 is more accurate for a couple of reasons. One is that it is sprung differently relative to the mass of the slide. I haven't tested it, but I would bet that if you had a 24 lb or greater recoil spring on a 9mm, even though the gun wouldn't cycle, the accuracy would improve.
The 45 barrel also has a different twist rate.
-Randy
Makes sense, thanks.
Stay safe,
Nick
I think the 45 is more accurate for a couple of reasons. One is that it is sprung differently relative to the mass of the slide. I haven't tested it, but I would bet that if you had a 24 lb or greater recoil spring on a 9mm, even though the gun wouldn't cycle, the accuracy would improve.
The 45 barrel also has a different twist rate.
-Randy
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