Vector Arms Mini-Uzi Pistol | California Legal?

[Iceberg]

I just sold my Vector Arms Mini-Uzi pistol on GunBroker to a guy in California. He has a FFL in California that I will ship the pistol to for the transfer. The pistol included 4 - 25 rd surplus mags. I didn't think we could ship high capacity magazines to California. I plan on calling his FFL as soon as he sends me the contact info; yes I'm going to check the validity of the FFL. I sure wish I had stated no California sales in my add. What do you guys think? Am I releaved of my responsibility if I ship the pistol & mags to a licensed dealer in California for the transfer?

[Buck]

If you are concerned you can ask the FFL holder for a copy of his CA DOJ seller of high capacity magazines permit and seller of assault weapons permit.

B

[Travelingchild]

I'd simply cancel the sale, not worth the risk the nuances of Ca. Gun laws get complicated.

1. mags. holding over 10 rds are illegal, Unless you were the original owner prior to the ban In the State of Ca.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#20

2. If it ain't on the list,

http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

It can't be legally imported into the State For A NEW RETAIL FIREARMS SALE.

[5pins]

Since you are sending it to a person licensed to receive a firearm under federal law, I would send it and let the FFL handle California law.

[Cobra66]

It all depends on if they guy they are going too is a LEO or not. As long as you are shipping to a FFL, then why wouldn't you be absolved of any responsibility? The California FFL is responsible for making sure the gun is legal for sale to the purchaser.

Magazines over 10 rounds are not importable unless the buyer is once again a LEO. However you can disassemble the magazine and sell it as parts. This is 100% legal.

Most of the firearms out there can be made Kalifornia legal. That said, the Uzi Pistol is definitely NOT on the approved roster (http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/) and thus can ONLY go to a LEO. Even then, the fact that it would qualify as an assault weapon (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) does not absolve the LEO of the responsibility to "neuter it" or have written permission from his supervisor to own said firearm (don't know of many Chiefs in Kalifornia that would approve an Uzi Pistol).

In short, I would ask a few more questions and contact the FFL before shipping it. While it is possible that the sale is good to go, it is highly unlikely. If the buyer is not a LEO, then I would be hesitant to do the sale.

I understand your (and others) apprehensions about selling to Kalifornia, but by not selling anything to them, you are just playing into the hands of those who are making the laws.

[jsbsmarine]

Lots of interesting info here. The ffl can accept the pistol regardless of being on the approved list or not. What he can do is make it a single shot conversion and make it compliant so that anyone can own it in California. The magazines will prob be broken down into parts kits or converted into 10 Rounders. Nothing to worry about on ur part. You did nothing illegal.

Man, everyone's scared of caliifornia laws. Ya'll should be happy to import more "evil weapons " to piss off the hippies here.

[Cobra66]

Lots of interesting info here. The ffl can accept the pistol regardless of being on the approved list or not. What he can do is make it a single shot conversion and make it compliant so that anyone can own it in California. The magazines will prob be broken down into parts kits or converted into 10 Rounders. Nothing to worry about on ur part. You did nothing illegal.

I knew this was possible, but didn't know the specifics. That said, I would recommend the OP talk with the buyer/FFL first to make sure this is what is going on. Otherwise he may have to deal with the hassle of the buyer or FFL trying to send it back when he finds out he can't own it as such.


Ya'll should be happy to import more "evil weapons " to piss off the hippies here.

Oh I wish they were just hippies. Hippies are harmless and just make a lot of noise and get high. What infests Kalifornia are neo-communist statists pure and simple.

[jsbsmarine]

My friend. U speak many truths! :D

I knew this was possible, but didn't know the specifics. That said, I would recommend the OP talk with the buyer/FFL first to make sure this is what is going on. Otherwise he may have to deal with the hassle of the buyer or FFL trying to send it back when he finds out he can't own it as such.



Oh I wish they were just hippies. Hippies are harmless and just make a lot of noise and get high. What infests Kalifornia are neo-communist statists pure and simple.

[Jake'sDad]

It all depends on if they guy they are going too is a LEO or not. As long as you are shipping to a FFL, then why wouldn't you be absolved of any responsibility? The California FFL is responsible for making sure the gun is legal for sale to the purchaser..

But you're still responsible for making sure the FFL you're shipping to has all the licenses he's required to have, Hi Cap permit, AW lic, etc. You also have to register with CA DOJ before you can ship any handgun into the state. CA can and has gone after out of state sellers for violating their gun laws.

[Jake'sDad]

Since you are sending it to a person licensed to receive a firearm under federal law, I would send it and let the FFL handle California law.

That is extremely bad advice.

[Jake'sDad]

Oh I wish they were just hippies. Hippies are harmless and just make a lot of noise and get high. What infests Kalifornia are neo-communist statists pure and simple.

Yup....

[Magic_Salad0892]

I know the magazine is legal if you send it to him in parts and sell it as a kit.

I also believe you can cross state line with it, if it's taken apart and assembled in-state.

[5pins]

That is extremely bad advice.

Why?

Last time I checked federal law was responsible for the interstate commerce of firearms. It is the responsibly of the FFL to comply with state and locale laws. There is no way that the op can know what the law in California or any other state is.

As long as the OP complies with federal law concerning the interstate selling of a firearm then he is good to go.

[kmrtnsn]

No, you cannot transfer the Mini Uzi to California, PERIOD.


http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

[Cobra66]

I know the magazine is legal if you send it to him in parts and sell it as a kit.

I also believe you can cross state line with it, if it's taken apart and assembled in-state.

You can only assemble the magazine in state if you owned it in California prior to Jan 2000. Otherwise you would be "manufacturing" a large capacity magazine which would be illegal. If you owned it in California prior to Jan 2000, there is no need to disassemble it prior to crossing the state line.

[Jake'sDad]

Why?

Last time I checked federal law was responsible for the interstate commerce of firearms. It is the responsibly of the FFL to comply with state and locale laws. There is no way that the op can know what the law in California or any other state is.

As long as the OP complies with federal law concerning the interstate selling of a firearm then he is good to go.

Wrong, and ignoring CA law is a good way to find yourself facing felony charges. Even an FFL in another state must comply with CA law in regards to shipments of guns into the state. For example, before even shipping a perfectly legal handgun to CA, the out of state FFL must register with CA DOJ, and then receive permission to ship that gun to an FFL within CA.

[jsbsmarine]

No, you cannot transfer the Mini Uzi to California, PERIOD.


http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.


[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html

Personally I could care less about bad information on the internet, but I have to call you out on this one because you are grossly misinformed. The vector mini uzi is perfectly legal to ship to california, even if it is NOT on California's roster. It cannot be immediately transferred to a regular buyer in its immediate form, but can be easily ROSTER EXEMPT if it is converted to a single shot pistol. Once it has been taken into possession and has left the dealer, the buyer can convert it back into its regular status.

If the buyer is a LEO, then the above does not apply and he can just pick up the pistol without altering its current form. The California Roster you provided a link to is pretty useless, and is just a way for the state to collect money and limit the number of new handguns making it into the state.

Please do not give out misinformation if you are not 100% sure and are just repeating something you read on the internet. It makes it difficult for us poor suckers still stuck here to get stuff that california thinks is UNSAFE for us to own.

Oh look, an Uzi Pistol. And its California friendly!
http://www.prkarms.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:1250-1299-uzis-vector-arms-pre-buy&catid=7:pistols&Itemid=16But wait, it's not on the roster of California handguns certified safe for sale. How is that possible?

[kmrtnsn]

Personally I could care less about bad information on the internet, but I have to call you out on this one because you are grossly misinformed. The vector mini uzi is perfectly legal to ship to california, even if it is NOT on California's roster. It cannot be immediately transferred to a regular buyer in its immediate form, but can be easily ROSTER EXEMPT if it is converted to a single shot pistol. Once it has been taken into possession and has left the dealer, the buyer can convert it back into its regular status.

If the buyer is a LEO, then the above does not apply and he can just pick up the pistol without altering its current form. The California Roster you provided a link to is pretty useless, and is just a way for the state to collect money and limit the number of new handguns making it into the state.

Please do not give out misinformation if you are not 100% sure and are just repeating something you read on the internet. It makes it difficult for us poor suckers still stuck here to get stuff that california thinks is UNSAFE for us to own.

Oh look, an Uzi Pistol. And its California friendly!
http://www.prkarms.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=40:1250-1299-uzis-vector-arms-pre-buy&catid=7:pistols&Itemid=16But wait, it's not on the roster of California handguns certified safe for sale. How is that possible?

I have merely quoted the applicable state and federal laws. Here is another one for you. Transfer to your heart's content but do so at your own risk.

Californal Penal Code at Section 12276

As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the
following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models
identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and
86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
(1) UZI. (2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(c) All of the following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc. SS/12.
(d) Any firearm declared by the court pursuant to Section 12276.5
to be an assault weapon that is specified as an assault weapon in a
list promulgated pursuant to Section 12276.5.
(e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only
variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in
subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.
(f) This section is declaratory of existing law, as amended, and a
clarification of the law and the Legislature's intent which bans the
weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in the list
promulgated by the Attorney General pursuant to Section 12276.5, and
any other models which are only variations of those weapons with
minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer. The Legislature
has defined assault weapons as the types, series, and models listed
in this section because it was the most effective way to identify and
restrict a specific class of semiautomatic weapons.

[Magic_Salad0892]

You can only assemble the magazine in state if you owned it in California prior to Jan 2000. Otherwise you would be "manufacturing" a large capacity magazine which would be illegal. If you owned it in California prior to Jan 2000, there is no need to disassemble it prior to crossing the state line.

I don't think that's true as long as it's considered a magazine kit.

I bought said kits when I lived in California, before moving to Oregon, despite being around LEOs at shooting ranges, I was never questioned, arrested, etc.

I never transported standard capacity magazines across state lines though, so I can't exactly say if you're wrong or not.

[Jake'sDad]

I don't think that's true as long as it's considered a magazine kit.

I bought said kits when I lived in California, before moving to Oregon, despite being around LEOs at shooting ranges, I was never questioned, arrested, etc.

I never transported standard capacity magazines across state lines though, so I can't exactly say if you're wrong or not.

He's exactly right. It is illegal to assemble the "kits" being sold as parts. The fact that lots of people are doing it, doesn't make it legal, any more than people smoking weed or doing coke is. The cops you were around wouldn't have any way of knowing when you acquired them, or they just didn't care. It's not exactly a top priority for most guys.

What those doing it, or contemplating doing it, should remember, is that if by some chance you do get caught, it's a weapons related charge, which if convicted, brings a lifetime ban from possessing firearms anywhere in the US.

[Cobra66]

I don't think that's true as long as it's considered a magazine kit.

I bought said kits when I lived in California, before moving to Oregon, despite being around LEOs at shooting ranges, I was never questioned, arrested, etc.

I never transported standard capacity magazines across state lines though, so I can't exactly say if you're wrong or not.

Once you assemble it in state, it is no longer a kit and you have just manufactured a large-capacity magazine without a permit.

As mentioned, while the law is hard to enforce and it is done all the time, it is still illegal.

As long as it stays in kit form, you are 100% legal.

[Cobra66]

I have merely quoted the applicable state and federal laws. Here is another one for you. Transfer to your heart's content but do so at your own risk.

Californal Penal Code at Section 12276

As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the
following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models
identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and
86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
(1) UZI. (2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(c) All of the following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc. SS/12.
(d) Any firearm declared by the court pursuant to Section 12276.5
to be an assault weapon that is specified as an assault weapon in a
list promulgated pursuant to Section 12276.5.
(e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only
variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in
subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.
(f) This section is declaratory of existing law, as amended, and a
clarification of the law and the Legislature's intent which bans the
weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in the list
promulgated by the Attorney General pursuant to Section 12276.5, and
any other models which are only variations of those weapons with
minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer. The Legislature
has defined assault weapons as the types, series, and models listed
in this section because it was the most effective way to identify and
restrict a specific class of semiautomatic weapons.

This law has been amended by court cases which has allowed the free flow of AR and AK series weapons into Kalifornia once again. Cal DOJ is notoriously bad about updating their site to reflect court decisions that went against them. Guns can not be banned now by "series" and must be make and model specific. Not that you probably care, but a little time on Cal Guns would clear it up.

[Magic_Salad0892]

Once you assemble it in state, it is no longer a kit and you have just manufactured a large-capacity magazine without a permit.

As mentioned, while the law is hard to enforce and it is done all the time, it is still illegal.

As long as it stays in kit form, you are 100% legal.

Well. That gave me a cold sweat.

Thanks for the information.

:eek::(

[Jake'sDad]

This law has been amended by court cases which has allowed the free flow of AR and AK series weapons into Kalifornia once again.

Well...if you mean neutered guns as long as they're not specifically rostered as AW's...... not zackly free flow.....

But maybe someday...

[Travelingchild]

It cannot be immediately transferred to a regular buyer in its immediate form, but can be easily ROSTER EXEMPT if it is converted to a single shot pistol. Once it has been taken into possession and has left the dealer, the buyer can convert it back into its regular status.

If the buyer is a LEO, then the above does not apply and he can just pick up the pistol without altering its current form.

1. Who in the world, would purchase a $1000 pistol like
that with the intent to convert it to a single shot and keep it that way.
2. Would that not be an illegal act?
3. Not exactly, A Ca. LEO needs a letter of authorization from his dept. higher ups. to purchase. Many won't.

[jsbsmarine]

Once you've taken possession of the handgun, u can remove the single shot function and make it normal again as long as you aren't violating any assault weapon laws.

Lets look at the uzi pistol. U can weld the threadcover in place (threaded barrels a no no) and then pin a block of wood into the magazine well to make it single shot compliant. This has to be done prior to transaction. Once you pick up the pistol, you can remove the block of wood and use 10 rounders, or if you had them pre ban, or ACQUIRED them somehow, 32 rounders.
Thread cover would need to remain welded on in order to be compliant with assault weapon las.

[Cobra66]

Well...if you mean neutered guns as long as they're not specifically rostered as AW's...... not zackly free flow.....

But maybe someday...

I literally pray that is so.