View Full Version : DD Omega X problem on Noveske N4 lower?
Has anyone successfully installed a Omega X on an N4?
Here is the story:
I purchased a DD complete upper (16" mid LW) with an 12" Omega X. Instead of using the DD upper on any old lower, I decided I would get a matched upper/lower from Noveske. I successfully installed the barrel to the Noveske upper (tightened barrel nut to 50lbs) and the rail to the barreled upper. I could not get the upper to mate with the lower. There is interference from the N4 lower with the lower portion of the rail. There seems to be extra material on the N4 lower that is not on any of my other lowers (examined 2 CMMG and 2 Stags for comparison). My buddy has 2 of the N4 matched upper/lower sets and his are identical to mine. I am pretty sure I did not get a defect.
To double check this I loosened the rail completely from the barrel nut, then attached the upper to the lower and re-installed the rail. When trying it this way I could not get the rail mounted square. It is slightly angled upwards. When laying a level over the upper and the rail you see a slight V and a gap of about 3/32" between the level and the low point. When trying to to pivot the upper by the pivot pin there is considerable interference between the bottom portion of the rail. It is so tight I did not want to force it and risk damage to the lower or rail.
What am I doing wrong? Is the N4 lower incompatible with the Omega X?
Other things to note:
- At 50lbs of pressure the barrel nut is in such a position that the setscrews for the Omega X are going in side the indents on the barrel nut. I know this is not ideal. Should I tighten more (past 50lbs) or less (less than 50lbs) so that the set screws contact the barrel nut on its outer surface? Will this fix my problem?
- Note: I am not blaming either manufacturer for this problem. This may all be caused by my error. I am just looking for help.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Are you familiar with the procedure for barrel installation? In addition the torque requirements are from 30-80 ft/lbs.
As for the other issue, I recommend posting some pictures. It will go a long way.
Has anyone successfully installed a Omega X on an N4?
Here is the story:
I purchased a DD complete upper (16" mid LW) with an 12" Omega X. Instead of using the DD upper on any old lower, I decided I would get a matched upper/lower from Noveske. I successfully installed the barrel to the Noveske upper (tightened barrel nut to 50lbs) and the rail to the barreled upper. I could not get the upper to mate with the lower. There is interference from the N4 lower with the lower portion of the rail. There seems to be extra material on the N4 lower that is not on any of my other lowers (examined 2 CMMG and 2 Stags for comparison). My buddy has 2 of the N4 matched upper/lower sets and his are identical to mine. I am pretty sure I did not get a defect.
To double check this I loosened the rail completely from the barrel nut, then attached the upper to the lower and re-installed the rail. When trying it this way I could not get the rail mounted square. It is slightly angled upwards. When laying a level over the upper and the rail you see a slight V and a gap of about 3/32" between the level and the low point. When trying to to pivot the upper by the pivot pin there is considerable interference between the bottom portion of the rail. It is so tight I did not want to force it and risk damage to the lower or rail.
What am I doing wrong? Is the N4 lower incompatible with the Omega X?
Other things to note:
- At 50lbs of pressure the barrel nut is in such a position that the setscrews for the Omega X are going in side the indents on the barrel nut. I know this is not ideal. Should I tighten more (past 50lbs) or less (less than 50lbs) so that the set screws contact the barrel nut on its outer surface? Will this fix my problem?
- Note: I am not blaming either manufacturer for this problem. This may all be caused by my error. I am just looking for help.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
You don't want the set screws going "into" the barrel nut notches...
Nefarious79
01-24-11, 14:34
No idea what you are doing but I dont have any issues with my C-series
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m265/nefarious79/2011-01-24142936.jpg
Singlestack Wonder
01-24-11, 16:27
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/omegx.jpg
Interesting....what is that tab on the rear of the rail where it joins the receiver?
Thank you for setting me straight on torque requirements. I will back it off and re-tighten to 35-40lbs (instead of 50lbs). That should fix the alignment of the barrel nut to the set screws problem. If the problem persists after that, I will get out the camera and post some pics.
Here is what my upper/lower looks like:
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/bigpic.cgi?i=n4ulc_1d.jpg
I think the N4 as seen in the link (and on my workbench) has more material around the pivot pin (beefier) than yours Nefarious. Yours looks like all the other lowers I have. The ears stick out past the upper on the N4.
I am really hoping someone comes along and says, "What are you doing wrong you idiot? I have assembled 3 of those with Omega X's and you shouldn't be having this problem." Then I can eliminate an equipment issue.
Thanks for the help. I will update with any progress.
Don't get hung up on torque values. Tighten the nut so that it is tight and that you can get everything to line up.
I recommend that you post pics of the actual upper and stuff that you have so we can see what is happening.
Thank you for setting me straight on torque requirements. I will back it off and re-tighten to 35-40lbs (instead of 50lbs). That should fix the alignment of the barrel nut to the set screws problem. If the problem persists after that, I will get out the camera and post some pics.
Here is what my upper/lower looks like:
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/bigpic.cgi?i=n4ulc_1d.jpg
I think the N4 as seen in the link (and on my workbench) has more material around the pivot pin (beefier) than yours Nefarious. Yours looks like all the other lowers I have. The ears stick out past the upper on the N4.
I am really hoping someone comes along and says, "What are you doing wrong you idiot? I have assembled 3 of those with Omega X's and you shouldn't be having this problem." Then I can eliminate an equipment issue.
Thanks for the help. I will update with any progress.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii183/Singlestack_Wonder/omegx.jpg
Interesting....what is that tab on the rear of the rail where it joins the receiver?
Yeah, what is that? I went and checked my OmegaX and it didn't have a tab sticking out on the receiver side...
I have two Noveske lowers (E-series I think) that have excess material on the front pivot pin "ears" (among other oddities). They rub against the upper whenever the rifle is shotgunned. It looks like they would possibly make contact with that rail right to the front of the pivot pin. Not sure if the lowers are actually out of spec. At the very least they have to be on the goofy side of spec.
Simple solution: file it down with a hand file and splash on some aluminum black.
Singlestack Wonder
01-24-11, 19:56
Yeah, what is that? I went and checked my OmegaX and it didn't have a tab sticking out on the receiver side...
New anti-rotation tab for the Omega series? ;)
Doesn't DD advise against usiong this rail over a low profile gas block?
New anti-rotation tab for the Omega series? ;)
Do they have a problem with rotating?
Do they have a problem with rotating?
Not anymore evidently.
Not anymore evidently.
Only thing a google search revealed was that one person had some "play" that they estimated to be about .001-.003'' of movement.
I wonder if that'd get exacerbated if you used a vertical grip, etc?
ETA: Second sentence is saying the non-tabbed versions... obviously they slipped that in at some point.
I have owned and used a total of 3 Omega X rails and all have been rock freaking solid. They've had VFG's on them and have been worked hard. No issues. If there's movement, they weren't installed correctly. The set screws need to be torqued appropriately.
I have owned and used a total of 3 Omega X rails and all have been rock freaking solid. They've had VFG's on them and have been worked hard. No issues. If there's movement, they weren't installed correctly. The set screws need to be torqued appropriately.
I appreciate the input, I really do, but what about Omega rails?
(Two different product lines)
https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/omega-rail.html
https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/omega-x-rail.html
It appears the Omega X's use a proprietary Barrel nut.
Have you had a lot of hands on experience with the Omega line?
I have two Noveske lowers (E-series I think) that have excess material on the front pivot pin "ears" (among other oddities). They rub against the upper whenever the rifle is shotgunned. It looks like they would possibly make contact with that rail right to the front of the pivot pin. Not sure if the lowers are actually out of spec. At the very least they have to be on the goofy side of spec.
Simple solution: file it down with a hand file and splash on some aluminum black.
Thank You!
Thank You!
Just remember, slower is better when removing material. You'll want to preserve as much of the anodizing as possible. File a little, check for fit, file a little, check for fit, repeat. If you really want to get anal, use lipstick or something similar on the rail to check for contact points on the lower. Then you can remove only the contact point each time.
I would file on the lower rather than the rail. Unless the lower is a SBR lower, the rail is worth more money. Also, this whole situation seems to be the lower's fault anyway.
I appreciate the input, I really do, but what about Omega rails?
(Two different product lines)
https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/omega-rail.html
https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/omega-x-rail.html
It appears the Omega X's use a proprietary Barrel nut.
Have you had a lot of hands on experience with the Omega line?
Hands on experience in what way?
I have had Omega rails on my two rifles for years with no issues. The standard Omega (which I have) retains the factory barrel nut and delta ring assembly. As such it positions the bottom portion of the rail further forward than the Omega X seems to do and MAY alleviate your issue with contact. That being said I have no experience with either Omega rail and a Noveske N4 lower so YMMV.
The standard Omega has been a good performer for me and I have seen no reason to replace them as of yet.
Good luck in resolving your issue. I would contact BOTH manufacturers though before I started filing on either part.
Hands on experience in what way?
I have had Omega rails on my two rifles for years with no issues. The standard Omega (which I have) retains the factory barrel nut and delta ring assembly. As such it positions the bottom portion of the rail further forward than the Omega X seems to do and MAY alleviate your issue with contact. That being said I have no experience with either Omega rail and a Noveske N4 lower so YMMV.
The standard Omega has been a good performer for me and I have seen no reason to replace them as of yet.
Good luck in resolving your issue. I would contact BOTH manufacturers though before I started filing on either part.
Just usage experience, does it wobble.
the other guy said his was as solid, but I wondered how the free-floating Omega worked out?
Truth be told, I'm thinking about in the next 8-10 months, after I finish up a few other things, going after an SBR, I came to the realization for me, in an SBR, I'm thinking I'm going to need a rail.
Just for ease of mounting a sling, mounting an offset light on the top rail, but I wanted to keep the FSB, and honestly I didn't want the rail install to be too over the top, I'd prefer to do it myself.
I like the uninterrupted rails that DD has to offer.
Also I'd like to free-float the barrel.
All of which the Omega Line seems to do very well.
In my reply to Brahmzy about the Omega X, he said they were rock-solid, but, I was wondering if the same experience was the same for the Omega line.
Thanks for any feedback, and I didn't mean to hijack this, if I need to send this as a PM I will.
The Omega and OmegaX are not the same.
Daniel Defense really should give it a different name.
The OmegaX shares the same barrel nut as the Lite rail, which is a rock solid, proven desing.
I tried everything (sans filing the lower or the rail) and still a no go.
Contacted Noveske directly. I am sure they will assist.
Nefarious79
01-25-11, 16:44
Yeah, what is that? I went and checked my OmegaX and it didn't have a tab sticking out on the receiver side...
Its an alignment/anit-rotation tab, there is one on either side on the OmegaX, my VTAC extreme rail only has one tab on the left side. I know the VTAC doesnt contact the upper receiver, not sure if the OmegaX does or not.
I had purchased a DD upper through smartgunner with this OmegaX rail and I tore it down and installed the OmegaX rail onto my BCM upper. I put at least 30lbs of torque on it. And I dont recall having any issues during or after installation.
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