View Full Version : M-9
abn45bravo
01-24-11, 13:31
Is the M-9 still a viable combat pistol? I am trying to justify picking one up and making it my main pistol because I carry a Beretta for work in the Army. I thought it would good to master one gun.
GermanSynergy
01-24-11, 13:37
If it's your issue piece in the .mil, absolutely be the master of your weapon.
It is a viable platform, if you learn the idiosyncracies of the Beretta and train around them.
Is the M-9 still a viable combat pistol? I am trying to justify picking one up and making it my main pistol because I carry a Beretta for work in the Army. I thought it would good to master one gun.
Is the M-9 still a viable combat pistol? I am trying to justify picking one up and making it my main pistol because I carry a Beretta for work in the Army. I thought it would good to master one gun.
I say yes. Given that you carry one at work I agree with German Synergy in that you need to be the master of it.
The M9/92 serves as my primary handgun for home/emergency defense. I learned to shoot it well in the military and it works for me. I have a large number of magazines and parts to support them so it make sense for me. With proper care and good magazines, they are as reliable a platform as any out their in my experience.
Obviously the SA/DA system is dated compared to striker fired or LEM type systems and the M9/92 is a big so this would make them less optimal today than a Glock/HK/M&P platform, but I have complete faith in them as long as I do my part.
I say for most people it may not be the optimal platform for the above reasons, but in your case it is certainly a viable option. You will enjoy good parts and magazine availability as well as the fact that they sell for very reasonable prices today. Budds has good condition leo trade ins for sale right now for just over $400 delivered.
abn45bravo
01-24-11, 16:18
Yes you guys are right. Just needed a nudge cause I am not a huge fan of Beretta. Guess I am in the market for a Beretta when my tax's come in.
Yes you guys are right. Just needed a nudge cause I am not a huge fan of Beretta. Guess I am in the market for a Beretta when my tax's come in.
You know, I think that if you really give the gun a chance, take it to a class or two and run it hard with some quality magazines, you will really come to appreciate what it can do.
It isn't real fair to base a weapon system on the arms room crap you are issued for qualification. The lack of maintenance on the weapon plus lack of operator know how and beat to hell magazines all play havic with the gun. I remember that I originally hated the M16 based on the beat to hell A1 models we had in the guard and that we trained with in ROTC. I still bought one and quickly learned just how capable and reliable a system it can be if it isn't overly abused.
Is the M-9 still a viable combat pistol? I am trying to justify picking one up and making it my main pistol because I carry a Beretta for work in the Army. I thought it would good to master one gun.
Yeah, sure it is! As you well know its our standard service pistol, and all rumor to the contrary, it will continue to be for at least the next decade.
I was first exposed to them in the USN, and have been a firm admirer of them ever since. They are superbly manufactured, buttery smooth in operation, accurate beyond most folks capability, durable, and easily maintained.
I own several 92FS "Italian produced" Beretta's, I acknowledge their shortcomings, their big, have long triggers, and a safety many don't approve of, however those are issues that have never stopped me from qualifying with one....
ThirdWatcher
01-24-11, 19:20
When you buy your M9, put a "D" Spring in it and it will improve the trigger pull significantly.
abn45bravo
01-24-11, 20:20
So is there any way to put night sights on? Since there is no dove tail is it possible to have a dove tail cut?
So is there any way to put night sights on? Since there is no dove tail is it possible to have a dove tail cut?
Yes you could, but I'd just ship the slide off to "ToolTech" and have them just drill out the front sight and insert the tritium...Google the name, their a trijicon factory approved operation..
theblackknight
01-24-11, 21:06
I kept a buddy's 92 at my house for a bit. He had nights on it.
I hate the 92.
My Italian 92fs turns me on for the reasons others don't care for them...the size, weight, decocker/safety, the heavy DA pull.
It's like a fat girl. If you embrace its size and weight, it'll be sure in your hand, dependable, predictable, and will eat anything you feed it.
So is there any way to put night sights on? Since there is no dove tail is it possible to have a dove tail cut?
As mentioned, a straight M9/92 has to be drilled for the front sight tritium capsule. You can send it to Trijicon or eliminate the middle man and send it straight to tool-tech. There is not enough material under the front sight to have a dove tale cut.
Some models/variants of the 92 have a dove tail front sight. The Brigadier and Elite series do and I'm pretty sure the Vertech and Ninety-Two do as well.
I've been carrying Beretta variants for almost 10 years now. They are great guns, though they are rather large compared to more modern designs. I'm a big guy, with big hands, and I love them.
Dan's Ammo has some used Italian-made 92FS Compacts and Centurions for under $400. Probably the best deal going for a Pizza Pistol right now. I'm very tempted to get another Compact as a spare.
I wouldn't carry one concealed, that's for sure. Managed to qual expert on with one back in the day, then never picked one up again to be honest. The M9 is a fine military or LE sidearm. Master the SA/DA trigger and you'll be alright.
I don't understand why some folks feel like the 92FS is an antiquated design. It's a fine firearm, and just like all others, it will take care of you if you take care of it.
I tend to agree with most folks here - You have this on the job - master it and master it well. I had my first exposure in the late 80s(and that was different from just watching Lethal Weapon or Die Hard) and my hands aren't exactly big.
It is an excellent platform. Ensure good, non-checkmate mags, the recoil spring is correctly and some lube - you should be very good.(wtf - who would parkerize the inside of a mag anyway)
Master both actions!!! Great advice given to me by LAV years ago. He is right!
Although I have gone the route of the G19 for most, my 92's are still prized to fan-boy status. My Vertec and Brigadier are prized.
I carry an M9 at work. not a bad gun, I shoot it well and it feels fin in my hand but I HATE HATE HATE the backwards safety on them. my personal preference if for striker guns but if beretta put a frame safety on it that allowed cocked and locked carry I'd be much more interested. either that or a decock-only variant, then they could leave the lever where it is.
The M9/92 series has branched out into other variants such as the M9A1, 90Two, and M92A1. Of all these, the 90Two seems the least liked. Not sure why, but the radical, "New Age" styling probably didn't help.
I'm personally a fan of the M9, and my next handgun will most probably be the 92A1.
NCPatrolAR
01-25-11, 07:21
My daily ccw pistol is a 92FS Centurion. Once I confirm reliability, I'll be replacing it with a 92FS Compact
I always distinguish between the Beretta 92 and the M9, because they are not the same thing. The 92 is a finely-made full-size combat pistol. The M9 is a US military weapon that is hit-and-miss in terms of reliability because of likely poor maintenance and unnecessary abuse coupled with made-by-the-lowest-bidder magazines.
If I were in the market for a large-frame 9mm pistol the 92 would be at or near the top of my list. If it had a frame-mounted safety, that would be ideal.
I have a 92D that I've been exceptionally pleased with. Mine came with OEM Trijicon nightsights, and with 12/05 (and later) date-rollmarked Check-Mate dry-film magazines and MDS magazines it's been superb-one of the relatively few handguns that I've literally never had a malfunction with.
Carrying concealed is actually not all the onerous a task, with the right holster-I use both a Kramer and an Orca IWB.
I've found that the 92D varient has some nice features-the 8.5 lb DAO triggerpull is easily the equivalant of a tuned Smith & Wesson revolvers-and that's with an out-of-the-box trigger (with some judicious lubing). I think of it as "LEM heavy."
Ergonomics are actually pretty decent-and the D varient has less to fiddle with (and/or serve as grit repositories), lever-wise. I've replaced the grips with a set of Ergo Extreme Grips (unfortunately discontinued).
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN0843.jpg
http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae343/JonInWA/Beretta%2092D/DSCN0846.jpg
Best, Jon
I have two 92FS pistols and can give you a little rundown of what I like and don't like.
My biggest compliant with the 92FS is the long trigger reach combined with a somewhat heavy DA pull. While I can still operate the trigger fairly well its not nearly as easy as say my P30 which fits my hand much better and has a shorter trigger reach.
I also dislike the slide mounted safety. Not because its difficult to flip off when going live as you don't really need to ever have the safety in the on position with the first shot being DA. Its because its too easy to flip to safe when racking or releasing the slide leaving you with a gun on SAFE when you didn't mean to put it their.
What I do like is the very nice SA trigger pull and how buttery smooth the pistol operates when firing.
The 92FS is not on the same level as my P30 its a solid pistol.
NCPatrolAR
01-25-11, 10:45
I also dislike the slide mounted safety. Not because its difficult to flip off when going live as you don't really need to ever have the safety in the on position with the first shot being DA. Its because its too easy to flip to safe when racking or releasing the slide leaving you with a gun on SAFE when you didn't mean to put it their.
This is one of the reason you should be well versed in using the slide stop to send the slide forward on slide lock reloads. Also, it helps to get in the habit of insuring the lever is up by sweeping your thumb up after manipulating the slide or simply get a "G" variant slide.
Both my Elite and my Compact are G-variants, so I got bit a few times when I got my 92F and forgot to manually disengage the safety after decocking the piece. I've also gotten nailed when sling-shotting it.
This makes me want to see if I could replace the internals to switch it to a G-model.
I am a real fan of the Beretta 92 - I have 6 of them (different variants).
The standard 92FS and the 92A1 are my fav models. One of my 92FS with factory night sights is my every day concealed carry.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g320/mistershipwreck/Wheel-beretta-noname1.jpg
SlapChopDonkey
01-25-11, 22:15
The M9 is a great pistol. I have found it to be a very accurate and extremely reliable weapon when properly maintained. I would recommend getting the new sand resistant magazines instead of the original ones though. (And they have an NSN, so make sure your armorer gets some for your unit, too). It's also nice to be able to train with the same weapon you will be carrying whenever you want to.
Is the 92FS viable as a combat pistol? Absolutely.
Are there pistols that do the same thing in a more robust, simpler, lighter and more compact package? Yes.
The 92/96 series is fairly large for what you get. Don't get me wrong, I used to carry one and wouldn't hesitate to do so again should I need to, but for me the Glock 19 does the same thing only better.
Both my Elite and my Compact are G-variants, so I got bit a few times when I got my 92F and forgot to manually disengage the safety after decocking the piece. I've also gotten nailed when sling-shotting it.
This makes me want to see if I could replace the internals to switch it to a G-model.
I have definitely grown fonder of my G model than standard FS for the above reasons, although it has not (yet) happened to me.
It is because of my M9 training and the fact that I still use it for off duty use, that I have not adopted the "sling shot" or "power-stroke" method of racking the slide. When I transitioned to the USP, the instructors wanted me to use the sling shot and not use the slide release but when I explained to them my use of the 92, they were good with it.
I have looked into converting a 92FS to a G variant and everything I have been able to find out is that you can NOT convert a FS slide to a G slide and would have to purchase a new G slide.
The 92D would be a good option for those who didn't want to deal with the issues that the decocker presents and want a consistent trigger pull. While you would still have to deal with a longer reset, all the 92Ds I have shot have had very nice (Smith and Wesson Revolveresque) trigger pulls.
I admit, my Elite has spoiled me. The LTT trigger job made the reset quite short, and I transitioned from 1911s directly to the Beretta with very little problem. I've never had the light-strike issue with this gun, except with the .22 upper (which is why I bought the 92F in the first place). It shoots like a wet dream.
It'd be a shame if I had to buy a G-model slide assembly to convert it, but given that my other 92s are all G's, it might not be a bad investment in the long run if I ever decide to carry the 92F.
I too use the slide-stop rather than a sling-shot for most uses. The 92F got me when I cycled the action to chamber a first round, and when I decocked between strings of fire and forgot that the safety wasn't spring-loaded. Now I've started training to push the safety up whether I'm using a G-model or not, and that should eventually train out my issue.
BTW, is there any kind of serial-number reference to determine when a particular Beretta 92 was made? I'm curious about my 92F's origins, since I bought it used.
BTW, is there any kind of serial-number reference to determine when a particular Beretta 92 was made? I'm curious about my 92F's origins, since I bought it used.
I used to have a list of serial number dates, but lost it when my HD crashed. I think I downloaded it from the Beretta Forum. That said, it was only valid for Italian made guns.
You can "SWAG" date your pistol by decade by what kind of locking block it came with and whether the dust cover is slanted and if the backstrap has been reduced.
I used to have a list of serial number dates, but lost it when my HD crashed. I think I downloaded it from the Beretta Forum. That said, it was only valid for Italian made guns.
You can "SWAG" date your pistol by decade by what kind of locking block it came with and whether the dust cover is slanted and if the backstrap has been reduced.
Old-style backstrap, straight dust cover, and marked "Mod. 92F - CAL9mm Parabellum - PATENTED"
It's a USA-made gun, though.
I have an M9A1 and I LOVE it. It has been the most reliable pistol I have had so far. It is also the most accurate I have had too. I like the size of it and its weight too. I plan on buying the 96A1(.40S&W) sometime in the near future as I am a firm believer in the 92/96/M9 platform.
Justin
Grumpy MSG
01-27-11, 04:32
Is the M-9 still a viable combat pistol? I am trying to justify picking one up and making it my main pistol because I carry a Beretta for work in the Army. I thought it would good to master one gun.
I will do this like a philosopher. I don't need to know this info, I am just asking the questions to help you in your thought process, because you are a grown man and don't have to justify the purchase of anything to anyone, except a spouse. Judging by your username, 45B is small arms repair right? Do you actually carry the pistol by duty MOS or just fix them and have an M4/M16A4 assigned to you? Are you thinking Beretta solely because that is what the Army has? If that is the case, have you considered the M11 (Sig P228), the Army's compact pistol (not very compact in my eyes)?
In my opinion, I don't really like the M9, it is big, bulky and the safety is backwards to me and located too high. Then again the M1911A1 is what I started with and your first pistol is usually what you compare every other pistol to. I have done the "pull the trigger with the safety on" mistake at the range (that is what training is for). I later had the opportunity to shoot an M11 (Sig P228), and the decocker and trigger system for it are just nicer to me. Now if you carry the M9 on your hip or under your arm while you are deployed, I would definitely choose to get a pistol with the controls exactly like the M9's. I wouldn't mess with one of the double action only or decocker versions of the Beretta or one with the safety located in a different location.
abn45bravo
01-27-11, 06:54
I will do this like a philosopher. I don't need to know this info, I am just asking the questions to help you in your thought process, because you are a grown man and don't have to justify the purchase of anything to anyone, except a spouse. Judging by your username, 45B is small arms repair right? Do you actually carry the pistol by duty MOS or just fix them and have an M4/M16A4 assigned to you? Are you thinking Beretta solely because that is what the Army has? If that is the case, have you considered the M11 (Sig P228), the Army's compact pistol (not very compact in my eyes)?
In my opinion, I don't really like the M9, it is big, bulky and the safety is backwards to me and located too high. Then again the M1911A1 is what I started with and your first pistol is usually what you compare every other pistol to. I have done the "pull the trigger with the safety on" mistake at the range (that is what training is for). I later had the opportunity to shoot an M11 (Sig P228), and the decocker and trigger system for it are just nicer to me. Now if you carry the M9 on your hip or under your arm while you are deployed, I would definitely choose to get a pistol with the controls exactly like the M9's. I wouldn't mess with one of the double action only or decocker versions of the Beretta or one with the safety located in a different location.
Yes I am 45b and I am issued an M-9 and an M4A1. I love the 228 but only intel guys get those. I am not a huge fan of the M-9 but it is what we got so it makes sense to try and train with what i carry over sea's. Thanks to every one for your replies.
I think you're making the right decision. If you put in the practice time you will be surprised with how well you will be able to shoot it.
I shoot a 92G Elite II some and enjoy it a lot. Other than being big enough to be crew served, it is a great pistol. Prior to it, I had a 92FS. With a little practice the thumb safety is not really a problem. If you sweep your thumb downward, like a 1911, the safety will actually pop up and off(at least for a right hander). It is very reliable and I was taught the trick by a SFARTC (sp?) grad that said he picked it up there.
Cagemonkey
01-27-11, 12:57
I don't mind the safety on the 92F because I only use as a decocking lever. The weapon is perfectly safe to carry with the safety off because of the firing pin safety. The manual safety is redundant. I carried a loaded M9 almost everyday as an Armorer in the Marines. I remember that the M12 holster would many times disengage the safety when withdrawing the pistol from the holster. We preferred the chest holsters for daily carry. If you take a black sharpie and blacken the red dot on the fire position, you won't attract any attention to the weapon being in the fire position.
abn45bravo
01-27-11, 13:04
I don't mind the safety on the 92F because I only use as a decocking lever. The weapon is perfectly safe to carry with the safety off because of the firing pin safety. The manual safety is redundant. I carried a loaded M9 almost everyday as an Armorer in the Marines. I remember that the M12 holster would many times disengage the safety when withdrawing the pistol from the holster. We preferred the chest holsters for daily carry. If you take a black sharpie and blacken the red dot on the fire position, you won't attract any attention to the weapon being in the fire position.
I like your style! It is a pain to carry loaded with all the leaf eaters in the military.
Cagemonkey
01-27-11, 13:45
Thanks, its sucks having to put up with the BS.
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