View Full Version : A new M4 hits the market!
A company called ADS has released an M4 clone that appears to be a very good value. We just got some of these in stock and can honestly say that I am impressed with it.
From looking at the style of the roll marks, I think LAR is making the uppers and lowers. The roll marks on the barrel tells me that Shaw makes them (which is where Colt gets some barrels made).
The other interesting thing about these M4's is that the barrel, upper and lower receiver are finished in Robar's Black Oxide! This is very high quality coating that is also on the expensive side. By coating everything, it gives the weapon a very even finish.
Here are some specs on the weapon:
Barrel Steel: 4150
Twist Rate: 1/7
Chrome lined: Y
F marked FSB: Y
M4 Barrel Extension: Y
M4 cut upper receiver: Y
Mil-Spec 6 position RE: Y
MP tested bolt: Y
AR15 Bolt Carrer: Y
Castle nut staked: Y
The bolt carrier is CMT which means that it is not staked properly. They also use a blue extractor insert VS black one. We will make sure that they are properly staked and the extractor is upgraded before it leaves our shop.
The complete weapon (which includes a hard case, D&H 30rd mag and manual) is $825. You can also just buy the uppers (complete) for $539 and their stripped lowers are $120.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Upper%20lower%20side%20view.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Upper%20lower%20side%20view1.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20cuts.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Barrel%20roll%20mark.jpg
NON LE marked
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20non%20leo.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20upper%20non%20leo.jpg
OD and FDE coated lowers
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/FDE%20Lower.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/OD%20Lower.jpg
tiger seven
08-30-07, 15:58
Wow! I really like the look of it. Even without the Cerakoting, that's obviously a hell of a deal for $825. I will certainly pass the word along to some interested parties.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Derek
I was incorrect on the coating, it is actually Robar's Black Oxide Finish. The manufacturer and I got our wires crossed.
This gun represents a VERY good value IMHO.
C4
I spoke to the guys who were starting it at a guns show here in AZ. One of the owners sells alot of LMT products in his retail store and were modeling their guns on LMT's. They also told me IIRC that they would be able to do the guns in different colors as well. The stuff looked good.
I spoke to the guys who were starting it at a guns show here in AZ. One of the owners sells alot of LMT products in his retail store and were modeling their guns on LMT's. They also told me IIRC that they would be able to do the guns in different colors as well. The stuff looked good.
Just got off the phone with them and they said that they are about a week out from from FDE and OD AR's.
C4
Just got off the phone with them and they said that they are about a week out from from FDE and OD AR's.
C4
Hey I guess the pain meds didnt kill all my brain cells.
What is the bbl contour?
TY, T.
looks like the best gun out there for the money....
thanks for the heads up grant!
What is the bbl contour?
TY, T.
Light under the HG's.
C4
Very impressive.
It's nice to see another quality AR hit the market.
dialM4murder
08-30-07, 19:12
So thats who they are. I saw their stripped lowers on Gunbroker and was wondering who the heck ADS was. They do look pretty sexy.
Why are the lowers law enforcement marked?
So thats who they are. I saw their stripped lowers on Gunbroker and was wondering who the heck ADS was. They do look pretty sexy.
Why are the lowers law enforcement marked?
Because its Tacticool!
Because its Tacticool!
I don't understand that commonly held belief. To me, it's a reminder that our government doesn't trust its citizens. Anyway...
These rifles do, indeed, look nice, Grant, and it's great that you make sure they ship with proper staking and extractor insert. When they hit your website, I'll be directing a few budget-minded friends to your site (for the uppers anyway).
Me gotta' ask? Are there different barrel
lengths available?
Ed
I am just getting ready to build my M4. I have a lower and the upper sure looks interesting. Maybe I will get the ADS and add a folding rear sight and then later an optic and maybe rails.
Grant, what other barrel lenght do they offer? How about 10.5'' and a 14.5'' upper?
All it needs is a MPI,M16 BCG to be a real nice M4Gry.
So thats who they are. I saw their stripped lowers on Gunbroker and was wondering who the heck ADS was. They do look pretty sexy.
Why are the lowers law enforcement marked?
Currently, they are marked LE Only (just like Colt's).
C4
Me gotta' ask? Are there different barrel
lengths available?
Ed
Not currently, but maybe in the future.
C4
Soulrack223
08-31-07, 09:22
Is it a mil-spec buffer tube or commercial?
Is it a mil-spec buffer tube or commercial?
It is a 6 position mil-spec receiver extension.
C4
It's a Kali legal carbine too! :D
Mace
Anyone have a link??
Thanks,
Cameron
Anyone have a link??
Thanks,
Cameron
Link for what?
C4
dialM4murder
08-31-07, 18:13
Currently, they are marked LE Only (just like Colt's).
C4
Yes, but WHY do companies do that? They arent restricted to LE/GOV use. IDK, just a pet peeve of mine.
That's one hell of a rifle for the money. has anyone shot one yet ? if it shoots as good as the spec's and looks indicate they are going to sell like hot cakes . where can I get one in Phoenix ?
Anyone have a link??
Thanks,
Cameron
Of course. Here ya go:
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/965142268.jpg
davemcdonald
08-31-07, 18:31
Isn't it a little early to be throwing around words like quality. It looks good on paper but then again so did Communism.
Here is the only link that I coud find so far:
http://www.adsrifles.com/index.htm
Unfortunately, I was in Phoenix earlier today and I could have done some leg work. I still have a lot of buddies in the Phoenix area. I'll see if anybody has heard of ADS.
For the sake of us shooters, I hope that they live up to the hype.
Dave
Heavy Metal
08-31-07, 19:45
Yes, but WHY do companies do that? They arent restricted to LE/GOV use. IDK, just a pet peeve of mine.
A piece of 100mph tape with your name on it fixes the LE/Restricted warning on the magwell:D
Someone needs to buy one and T&E it for us :D
Don Robison
08-31-07, 21:15
Someone needs to buy one and T&E it for us :D
Send me a rifle and I'll spring for the ammo:D :p
Nice looking carbine.
Of course. Here ya go:
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/965142268.jpg
Haji, you're evil!! :D
AR15barrels
09-01-07, 01:52
Of course. Here ya go:
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/965142268.jpg
That's a full set of links.
He only asked for one link.
I recommend this one:
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/113/gfx/large/d3bchain2l.gif
That's one hell of a rifle for the money. has anyone shot one yet ? if it shoots as good as the spec's and looks indicate they are going to sell like hot cakes . where can I get one in Phoenix ?
Buy one from Grant and have it transefered to a FFL.
Why the negativity? I'm sure Grant wouldn't recommend junk.
I say it is a very promising offering. Just another alternative to Colt, LMT, etc.
My 0.02
That's one hell of a rifle for the money. has anyone shot one yet ? if it shoots as good as the spec's and looks indicate they are going to sell like hot cakes . where can I get one in Phoenix ?
I have run some rounds throug it. Everything checks out.
I don't know where you can buy it locally, but if you buy from us, you will avoid sales tax. ;)
C4
Isn't it a little early to be throwing around words like quality. It looks good on paper but then again so did Communism.
Here is the only link that I coud find so far:
http://www.adsrifles.com/index.htm
Unfortunately, I was in Phoenix earlier today and I could have done some leg work. I still have a lot of buddies in the Phoenix area. I'll see if anybody has heard of ADS.
For the sake of us shooters, I hope that they live up to the hype.
Dave
You are correct Dave, we generally like to use the word "quality" for weapons that have been around for awhile.
One of the ways to initially get an idea if a weapon is quality or not is to look at the components used. Everything in the weapon is from a quality manufacturer. It is also assembled correctly (less the gas key which we fix).
C4
Why the negativity? I'm sure Grant wouldn't recommend junk.
I say it is a very promising offering. Just another alternative to Colt, LMT, etc.
My 0.02
It does fit a middle role that is kind of absent. Honestly, there are not a lot quality AR's in this price range. The only ones that I can think of is would be a Stag or S&W 15/15A. Neither of these weapons have the same specs as this one though.
To me, this weapon is a RRA/BM/DPMS killer as it is around their price with better materials used and assembled properly.
C4
The other interesting thing about these M4's is that the barrel, upper and lower receiver are finished in Robar's Black Oxide! This is very high quality coating that is also on the expensive side. By coating everything, it gives the weapon a very even finish.
Grant-
Unless they're making those uppers and lowers out of steel, they aren't being “coated” in black oxide. (Black oxide is a conversion process, not a coating.)
You might want to check the details with ADS, but if Robar is doing it, it’s probably one of the spray-on polymer finishes.
Grant-
Unless they're making those uppers and lowers out of steel, they aren't being “coated” in black oxide. (Black oxide is a conversion process, not a coating.)
You might want to check the details with ADS, but if Robar is doing it, it’s probably one of the spray-on polymer finishes.
Could be. That is just what they called it and said who was doing it for them. I will see if I can get some clarification from them.
C4
paulosantos
09-01-07, 09:29
They look very nice. I just wonder why other manufacturers don't do the same.
They look very nice. I just wonder why other manufacturers don't do the same.
Cost. Most companies don't want to spend the time or money to get a weapon coated.
C4
ok ,went over to Shooters Vault in Phoenix and they have them in stock I handeled one and a'm impressed they are $799.99 + tax .the finish is very nice ,how it will hold up I don't know but if it is a Robar finish than it should be good to go . I would like a BCM M16 bolt group with the extracter mod that is MP tested and shot peened other than that it all set . I f I get one I would get it from Grant and save the sales tax .but it ain't much cause the tax is $64.00 and than if you count in the FFL transfer you are at the same price . any way if I could get it for $825.00 with the BCM bolt group landed I would buy another AR I don't need ,cause it was that pretty and I'm a sucker for a pretty face. from the fit and finish it should be a winner . makes a Bushmaster look like crap ,finish wise . I don't think your going to find a better AR at the price .
ok ,went over to Shooters Vault in Phoenix and they have them in stock I handeled one and a'm impressed they are $799.99 + tax .the finish is very nice ,how it will hold up I don't know but if it is a Robar finish than it should be good to go . I would like a BCM M16 bolt group with the extracter mod that is MP tested and shot peened other than that it all set . I f I get one I would get it from Grant and save the sales tax .but it ain't much cause the tax is $64.00 and than if you count in the FFL transfer you are at the same price . any way if I could get it for $825.00 with the BCM bolt group landed I would buy another AR I don't need ,cause it was that pretty and I'm a sucker for a pretty face. from the fit and finish it should be a winner . makes a Bushmaster look like crap ,finish wise . I don't think your going to find a better AR at the price .
Glad to hear that you liked it. The BCG they use is a good one, it just needs to have the carrier key staked. We also upgraded the extractor insert, extractor spring and add a Crane O-Ring.
C4
no likey ar15 carrier,have a preferance for the M16 carrier ,just set in my ways . I have no doubt you know what your doing and will stand behind what you sell .most vendors would not do the up grades you do to the BCG they would just ship it as is . I have purchased a couple of EOtech's from you in the past and was very satisfyed with the price and service. the BCG it comes with will more than likely be a non issue for most and should not stop anyone from buying this great looking AR. when you get old like me you get set in your way's and my precieved need for the M16 carrier is something that gives me peace of mind and maybe even a little chubby .
ok ,went over to Shooters Vault in Phoenix and they have them in stock I handeled one and a'm impressed they are $799.99 + tax .the finish is very nice ,how it will hold up I don't know but if it is a Robar finish than it should be good to go . I would like a BCM M16 bolt group with the extracter mod that is MP tested and shot peened other than that it all set . I f I get one I would get it from Grant and save the sales tax .but it ain't much cause the tax is $64.00 and than if you count in the FFL transfer you are at the same price . any way if I could get it for $825.00 with the BCM bolt group landed I would buy another AR I don't need ,cause it was that pretty and I'm a sucker for a pretty face. from the fit and finish it should be a winner . makes a Bushmaster look like crap ,finish wise . I don't think your going to find a better AR at the price .
Just a FYI the guy who owns Shooters Vault is a part owner of ADS. The way I look at it even if something was the same price its better to support a board member.
no likey ar15 carrier,have a preferance for the M16 carrier ,just set in my ways . I have no doubt you know what your doing and will stand behind what you sell .most vendors would not do the up grades you do to the BCG they would just ship it as is . I have purchased a couple of EOtech's from you in the past and was very satisfyed with the price and service. the BCG it comes with will more than likely be a non issue for most and should not stop anyone from buying this great looking AR. when you get old like me you get set in your way's and my precieved need for the M16 carrier is something that gives me peace of mind and maybe even a little chubby .
If you want a M16 carrier in the weapon, I am sure we can help you out with that.
C4
Someone needs to buy one and T&E it for us :D
The sum doesn't always equal the parts, but it some cases, it does in plenty.
The price and parts seem right, I'm interested in seeing how these do once they get hot and dirty.
The sum doesn't always equal the parts, but it some cases, it does in plenty.
The price and parts seem right, I'm interested in seeing how these do once they get hot and dirty.
I agree. I want to see how they do when they've been run hard. Even if I have to do it myself :D
Grant do you have any of thier uppers???
Robb Jensen
09-06-07, 06:14
I agree. I want to see how they do when they've been run hard. Even if I have to do it myself :D
Buy me one and I'll let you know how it works out............;)
Grant do you have any of thier uppers???
Yes we do.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7297
C4
Grin Reaper
09-06-07, 09:43
Looks good to me.
Someone remarked at a gun show recently that "there are enough AR-15's being built by enough manufacturers already."
I disagree.
The more people building them, the greater the pressure for quality -- if you build a bad one, people will just buy from someone else.
Plus, this speaks volumes about how popular such rifles are. The more people are buying them, the more gun owners there are, the more people have something invested in gun control laws, the better things look at the next election for all of us. [rant/]
Looks like their site's still under construction.
Looks good to me.
Someone remarked at a gun show recently that "there are enough AR-15's being built by enough manufacturers already."
I disagree.
The more people building them, the greater the pressure for quality -- if you build a bad one, people will just buy from someone else.
Plus, this speaks volumes about how popular such rifles are. The more people are buying them, the more gun owners there are, the more people have something invested in gun control laws, the better things look at the next election for all of us. [rant/]
Looks like their site's still under construction.
I agree. Yes there are lot of AR manufacturers out there, but not very many of them are worth anything.
C4
A few questions:
1) Are the barrels and bolts MP tested after the HP test?
2) If yes to the above question, is every single barrel and bolt tested?
3) Are the bolts shot peened?
3) Why aren't the gas keys staked correctly? (just curious)
I agree with Grin Reaper.
A few questions:
1) Are the barrels and bolts MP tested after the HP test?
2) If yes to the above question, is every single barrel and bolt tested?
3) Are the bolts shot peened?
3) Why aren't the gas keys staked correctly? (just curious)
The Bolts and barrels are MP tested only (not HP).
Every bolt is MP tested, but believe the barrels are batch tested
Bolts are shot peened.
The BCG's are CMT (stag) and that is why they are not done properly.
I have worked out a deal with the manufacturer to sell me the complete guns withouht a BCG. Now I will be able to put a BCM, LMT or G&R FN contracted BCG in the gun. :D
C4
Jay Cunningham
09-08-07, 10:37
The Bolts and barrels are MP tested only (not HP).
Every bolt is MP tested, but believe the barrels are batch tested
Bolts are shot peened.
The BCG's are CMT (stag) and that is why they are not done properly.
I have worked out a deal with the manufacturer to sell me the complete guns withouht a BCG. Now I will be able to put a BCM, LMT or G&R FN contracted BCG in the gun. :D
C4
That's almost worth picking up a spare training gun. Maybe now I can get some of my cheapskate co-workers to buy a good AR.
Nah. never happen.
When I first spoke to ADS's owners several months back I didnt really pay the weapon much attention. I saw the owners again at a show in Phoenix today and broke one down and looked up her skirt. They are put together right and are quite nice. They had some of the colored ones there in DE and Green and they were really nice.
NightFighter
09-12-07, 04:01
Just got off the phone with them and they said that they are about a week out from from FDE and OD AR's.
C4
Newbie question: what does FDE and OD mean?
Jay Cunningham
09-12-07, 04:08
They are colors: Flat Dark Earth and Olive Drab.
NightFighter
09-12-07, 04:19
The Bolts and barrels are MP tested only (not HP).
Every bolt is MP tested, but believe the barrels are batch tested
Bolts are shot peened.
The BCG's are CMT (stag) and that is why they are not done properly.
I have worked out a deal with the manufacturer to sell me the complete guns withouht a BCG. Now I will be able to put a BCM, LMT or G&R FN contracted BCG in the gun. :D
C4
How much would one of these ADS rifles run if an LMT or G&R FN was used? Would you consider the ADS a good entry level AR?
How much would one of these ADS rifles run if an LMT or G&R FN was used? Would you consider the ADS a good entry level AR?
They should be about the same price. I would consider the ADS AR's above an entry level AR.
The BCG's used (CMT) are VERY good and should not be viewed as lacking IMHO.
C4
NightFighter
09-12-07, 07:42
They are colors: Flat Dark Earth and Olive Drab.
Thanks for the clarification.
NightFighter
09-12-07, 07:49
They should be about the same price. I would consider the ADS AR's above an entry level AR.
The BCG's used (CMT) are VERY good and should not be viewed as lacking IMHO.
C4
Grant,
Are you saying that at approximately $825 I can have a resonably good AR ?
One that a newbie like me could go out and use for home defense, range fun and later carbine classes with out having to spend a ton of money for upgrades just to keep the rifle functioning? Sounds to good to be true. I could actually have money left over to buy fun things like rails and lights and stuff. :D I am not trying to put you on the spot I am just asking a question that is on my mind. :rolleyes:
Grant,
Are you saying that at approximately $825 I can have a resonably good AR ?
If you read the specs on the first page of this thread, you'll see this rifle is quite a bit better than just a "reasonably good AR"...especially since Grant is upgrading the extractor springs and properly staking the gas key before he ships it out the door.
Hello Grant,
Is the shelf machined low enough to readily accept a RDIAS?
Thanks.
pistolman1974
09-12-07, 10:19
Does ADS offer a carry handle with the flat top? If not, do you have any in stock? Who makes them and how much are they?
I'm considering purchasing an AR-15 before the end of the year. right now its between the S&W MP15 and the ADS. It seems like the ADS is going to be the better choice so far.
If I were you I would pass on the on the S&W MP15 and get the ADS.
ADS and $825.00 1-30rd mag and hard case and manual.
Question was answered earlier.
I've never played with an ADS, but from what Grant (whom I don't know outside our conversations here) says, it sounds like they could be the next CZ 75, HS2000 or Suhl shotgun. In that, they are priced way below their quality level upon initial release.
If I were in the US, I would buy one in a heartbeat.
I think I'll drink another local beer to alleviate the pain of not being able to buy one:(
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20cuts.jpg
I hate to be a jerk but there have been other threads on some other sub Tier 1 weapons and feed ramps like these got slammed. Do all the ADS ramps match like this?
not very good at all,but if they fix it it ain't the end of the world. every manufacture has a QC problem now and then, what counts is how they resolve it . old eagle eye Steve don't miss much ,but that's why Adco has the rep for Quality work they do. Adco just did a Colt upper for me (thread the barrel and install a FSB) and did a great job with a fast turnaround time .;)
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20cuts.jpg
I hate to be a jerk but there have been other threads on some other sub Tier 1 weapons and feed ramps like these got slammed. Do all the ADS ramps match like this?
Not sure that I have EVER seen a thread where a company was bashed for having M4 barrel extensions and M4 receiver matching up like the ones in the pic (which are fine by the way). Please provide a link to it.
Just as an FYI, barrel extensions can vary in the size of the ramp from one manufacturer to another (same goes for the cuts on the receiver). As long as a lip is not created, you are fine.
A quick look at some of the LMT's and Colt's I have in the shop shows a similar alignment like the ones pictured in the ADS rifle. So to make it simple, there is nothing wrong with the alignment of the ADS barrel extension and receiver.
C4
To prove a point, here are two pics of LMT uppers. Their alignment is worse than the ADS upper.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LMT/M4%20cuts.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/LMT/M4%20cuts.jpg
Maybe my eye's are funny ,but it looks like a lip or unevenness to me. but I;m sure it would still fedd without a problem . I have an RRA that looks worse than that and it has been trouble free . maybe it would look better after 500 or 600 rounds .maybe if it were stoned it would look better,my first wife always looked better stoned (back in 1971).
NightFighter
09-15-07, 17:46
Not sure that I have EVER seen a thread where a company was bashed for having M4 barrel extensions and M4 receiver matching up like the ones in the pic (which are fine by the way). Please provide a link to it.
Just as an FYI, barrel extensions can vary in the size of the ramp from one manufacturer to another (same goes for the cuts on the receiver). As long as a lip is not created, you are fine.
A quick look at some of the LMT's and Colt's I have in the shop shows a similar alignment like the ones pictured in the ADS rifle. So to make it simple, there is nothing wrong with the alignment of the ADS barrel extension and receiver.
C4
I dont know what exactly you guys are talking about, but it seems that Grant has made his point. If these rifles are equal to LMT and/or Colts within reason for the price then I say they are pretty good rifles.
There is an absolute ton of garbage on the market so I welcome any new quality offering. I look forward to seeing some long term reviews. I sincerely hope these turn out to be all they are said to be because most of the other companies who offer an equivalent are pretty backed up.
Maybe my eye's are funny ,but it looks like a lip or unevenness to me. but I;m sure it would still fedd without a problem . I have an RRA that looks worse than that and it has been trouble free . maybe it would look better after 500 or 600 rounds .maybe if it were stoned it would look better,my first wife always looked better stoned (back in 1971).
It is an optical illusion. There is no lip.
C4
I see ,going to be getting one after I finish my Rem 700P and Nikon scope project when I have some spare cash . since you have shot the Colt and LMT,how would rate the ADS in function and accuracy ?
I see ,going to be getting one after I finish my Rem 700P and Nikon scope project when I have some spare cash . since you have shot the Colt and LMT,how would rate the ADS in function and accuracy ?
Fugction is fine and accuracy has been around 1" with 75gr TAP.
C4
pistolman1974
09-20-07, 17:35
Is it possible to add the ADS rifle to the AR-15 comparison chart?
New pics on page one!
NON LE marked weapons are in and so are their FDE and OD coated lowers!
C4
I understand that it hasn't been months, but I'm curious to know how the ADS carbines are holding up? Has anyone used them in a class, or some other venue to see how well they stand up to hard use?
Thanks.
Jim
+1 bump...
Whenever I hear somebody talking Stag, I suggest ADS and point 'em to Grant.
Gun Runner
10-27-07, 13:13
How's the green match Magpul's green?
How's the green match Magpul's green?
Pretty close as they are both dark.
C4
Did I miss the reason why ADS was pulled from "The Chart?" I could swear I saw it there for a while...
All it needs is a MPI,M16 BCG to be a real nice M4Gry.
LWRC is offering their old DGI carriers for $55 a piece on their website under the "specials" section.
Robb Jensen
12-16-07, 09:25
LWRC is offering their old DGI carriers for $55 a piece on their website under the "specials" section.
I could have sworn I've seen those two pics and those carriers for sale here in the member sales a few months ago.
LWRC is offering their old DGI carriers for $55 a piece on their website under the "specials" section.
I ordered one of those two weeks ago and still have yet to receive it. My first email waas responded to with an answer that it had not shipped (but would go out that da, Dec. 7th) because of an unexpected ATF visit, my second and third emails have not been responded to. Not trying to flame them here, but that is not great customer service IMO.
Who makes the FDE and OD coating on those receivers? Is it Cerakote?
Who makes the FDE and OD coating on those receivers? Is it Cerakote?
The coating is done by Robar and is a type of ceramic coating.
C4
Did I miss the reason why ADS was pulled from "The Chart?" I could swear I saw it there for a while...
I wonder why ADS isn't on the chart also .
AR15barrels
12-17-07, 11:03
I wonder why ADS isn't on the chart also .
Probably because they are not a "mainstream" builder.
There are lots of small builders out there.
Some of them build very good guns.
The chart is a comparison of companies that build LOTS and LOTS of guns.
I ordered one of those two weeks ago and still have yet to receive it. My first email waas responded to with an answer that it had not shipped (but would go out that da, Dec. 7th) because of an unexpected ATF visit, my second and third emails have not been responded to. Not trying to flame them here, but that is not great customer service IMO.
Shoot me an e-mail with your info and I'll get you taken care of.... Some heads are going to roll. This is BS? Who did you speak with?:mad:
Jesse@lwrifles.com
Shoot me an e-mail with your info and I'll get you taken care of.... Some heads are going to roll. This is BS? Who did you speak with?:mad:
Jesse@lwrifles.com
Just to let all know, MisterJG contacted me and did not wait for me to send him an email. He got this issue squared away for me ASAP and overnighted my carrier. Now that is good customer service IMO.
Thanks for taking care of it MisterJG
I was talked out of a Rock River when I went to Shooter's Vault. Glad he did! I picked up an Alpha Model and got a GG&G flip up rear. The thing shoots like a dream. I got it sighted and proceeded to qualify. Nice groups and smooth operation. Even had it upsidedown,sideways, and in the rain. The finish is quite nice and looks to be durable. Not bad for the $$.
Just to let all know, MisterJG contacted me and did not wait for me to send him an email. He got this issue squared away for me ASAP and overnighted my carrier. Now that is good customer service IMO.
Thanks for taking care of it MisterJG
That sure is good service, really good. Glad to see he is not banned as it says under his old name, but rather just using a different name now by necessity. Seemed strange so soon after going out of his way...
Looks good to me.
Someone remarked at a gun show recently that "there are enough AR-15's being built by enough manufacturers already."
I disagree.
The more people building them, the greater the pressure for quality -- if you build a bad one, people will just buy from someone else.
Plus, this speaks volumes about how popular such rifles are. The more people are buying them, the more gun owners there are, the more people have something invested in gun control laws, the better things look at the next election for all of us. [rant/]
Looks like their site's still under construction.
I have to disagree, judging from pics I've seen, I think the same people are buying more...me included. :D
Grant, what is the availability of the 'green machine' Mod 2A? and if possible what does that run? im really really interested in picking one up next month once my christmas bills level out :) thanks in advance.
Pete Seybold
US Coast Guard Aviation Special Operations Gunner
Grant, what is the availability of the 'green machine' Mod 2A? and if possible what does that run? im really really interested in picking one up next month once my christmas bills level out :) thanks in advance.
Pete Seybold
US Coast Guard Aviation Special Operations Gunner
I have not been ordering colored complete AR's because they are generally hard to sell.
If you want to special order something, give us a call.
C4
US Coast Guard Aviation Special Operations Gunner
:confused:
K.L. Davis
12-25-07, 22:23
:confused:
U.S. Coast Guard... the fifth branch of the U.S. Armed Forces:
On August 4th, the United States Coast Guard Celebrated their 217th Birthday.
Just two years ago, after days of searching, the U.S. Coast Guard rescued 27,243 people from rooftops and flooded neighborhoods, devastated by Hurricane Katrina. Additionally, Coast Guard personnel assisted with the evacuation of an additional 9,462 patients and medical personnel from hospitals and nursing homes.
Although the entire World has watched their helicopters, aircraft, and cutters streak across their television screens that week, many people know very little about this dedicated group of silent heroes.
Created out of Government Streamlining
The United States Coast Guard is this nation's oldest and its premier maritime agency. Detailing the history of the Coast Guard is not easy because it's the amalgamation of five Federal agencies ( the Revenue Cutter Service, the Lighthouse Service, the Steamboat Inspection Service, the Bureau of Navigation, and the Lifesaving Service), all of which were established by the United States Government, at different times.
Because they had overlapping responsibilities, they were often shuffled from one end of the Government to the other, receiving new names as they went along. They were all finally united under the umbrella of the Coast Guard.
On 7 August 1789, the First Congress federalized the existing lighthouses built by the colonies and appropriated funds for lighthouses, beacons, and buoys. Each lighthouse is unique because they generally reflect the latest technology available at the time they were constructed There have been more than 1,000 lighthouses built, and their administration bounced from the Treasury Department to the Commerce Department for almost 150 years before it was finally transferred to the Coast Guard in 1939.
Law Enforcement
The Coast Guard's law enforcement responsibilities have been threefold over the decades:. First, to ensure that tariffs were paid. Second, to protect shipping from pirates and third, to intercept contraband. Today, the payment of import taxes and tariffs don't seem like a big deal, but in 1789, it was the height of controversy. The new government needed money if the nation was going to survive, but the populace had grown accustomed to smuggling goods to the colonies to avoid King George's trade laws.
Congress created a fleet of ten cutters whose responsibilities would be enforcement of the tariff laws.
Seven of the ten cutters were built for the allotted $1,000 each. Two New England cutters exceeded the amount by $500, possibly the first case of "Defense Overrun Spending." During the cutters' first ten years of service, the imports and exports of the nation rose from $52 million to $205 million.
Intercepting contraband became the Coast Guard's prime mission prior to World War II. This responsibility was mainly a result of Prohibition, (1920-1933), and later in that decade by the prelude of World War II. Following the war, the Coast Guard's prime responsibility shifted largely to safety at sea and aiding navigation.
In the early 1960s, law enforcement once again assumed increased significance. In 1959, Fidel Castro took power in Cuba and within two years, the Coast Guard established patrols to aid refugees and to enforce neutrality, interdicting the transportation of men and arms. This responsibility peaked in 1965 due to increased restrictions on immigration from Cuba and then abated. During the early 1970s, an old law enforcement job, drug interception, took on increasing emphasis which continues today. From 1963 through 1979, the Coast Guard seized 304 vessels, confiscated over $4 billion in contraband and made 1,959 arrests.
Environmental Protection
The Coast Guard has helped to protect he environment for 150 years. In 1822 the Congress created a timber reserve for the Navy and authorized the President to use whatever forces necessary to prevent the cutting of live-oak on public lands.
The shallow-draft cutters were well-suited to this service and were used extensively. Since then, environmental inspection and enforcement has grown to occupy a large part of Coast Guard resources, especially in Alaska.
Search and Rescue
In 1831 the Secretary of the Treasury directed the revenue cutter Gallatin to cruise the coast in search of persons in distress. This was the first time a government agency was tasked specifically to search for those who might be in danger, and over the years, became the primary operational focus of the Coast Guard.
During the 1900s the five different elements, which now comprise the United States Coast Guard, were consolidated, and passed back and forth between the Navy Department and the Department of Commerce. Finally, in 1967, all of the components were finally in place under Coast Guard control, and the Coast Guard itself was placed under the authority of the newly formed Department of Transportation. On March 1, 2003, the Coast Guard was transferred to the brand new Department of Homeland Security. Operational control of the Coast Guard shifts to the Navy during times of war.
Coast Guard at War
In addition to it's every day "peace-time" mission of law enforcement, safety, tariffs, and search and rescue, the Coast Guard supplements the United States Navy during times of war and conflict. The Coast Guard has been militarily involved in every single war the United States has fought from the Civil War to the war in Iraq.
On 11 September 2001, terrorists hijacked four commercial aircraft, crashing two into the World Trade Center in New York and one into the Pentagon in Washington, DC (the fourth aircraft crashed around Shanksville, Pennsylvania when passengers on board attempted to regain control from the terrorists). USCG units from Activities New York were among the first military units to respond in order to provide security and render assistance to those in need.
In response to the terrorist threat and to protect our nation's coastline, ports and waterways, six U.S. Navy Cyclone-class patrol coastal warships were assigned to Operation Noble Eagle on 5 November 2001. This was the first time that U.S. Navy ships were employed jointly under Coast Guard command.
US Coast Guard units deployed to Southwest Asia in support of the US-led coalition engaged in Operation Iraqi Freedom early in 2003. At the height of operations, there were 1,250 Coast Guard personnel deployed, including about 500 reservists. This included two large cutters, a buoy tender, eight patrol boats, four port security units, law enforcement detachments and support staff to the Central (CENTCOM) and European (EUCOM) Command theaters of operation.
Average Day
On an average day, the Coast Guard will:
* Save 15 lives
* Assist 117 people in distress
* Conduct 90 search and rescue cases
* Protect $2.8 million in property
* Enforce 129 security zones
* Interdict and rescue 15 illegal migrants at sea
* Board 4 high interest vessels
* Board 192 vessels of law enforcement interest
* Board 122 large vessels for port safety checks
* Seize 71 pounds of marijuana and 662 pounds of cocaine with a street value of 21.1 million
* Conduct 317 vessel safety checks and teach 63 boating safety courses
* Conduct 19 commercial fishing vessel safety exams
* Respond to 11 oil and hazardous chemical spills
* Process 280 mariner licenses and documents
* Service 140 aids to navigation
* Monitor the transit of 2,557 commercial ships through U.S. ports
* Investigate 20 vessel casualties involving collisions, allisions and groundings
K.L. Davis-
I won't quote your post in it's entirety. I'll just give you a :D .
I am former AD Coastie, current supervisory 1811, and CG reservist. The term "US Coast Guard Aviation Special Operations Gunner" threw me. It isn't an aviation rating and the CG typically does not refer to anything as "Special Operations." Typically, Special Missions is used. If it is a term of art at, say, HITRON or MSRT, it is probably officially discouraged due to squeamishness about using the Special Operations moniker.
Put another way, it just didn't sound right for the reasons above, but I welcome clarification.
K.L. Davis-
I won't quote your post in it's entirety. I'll just give you a :D .
I am former AD Coastie, current supervisory 1811, and CG reservist. The term "US Coast Guard Aviation Special Operations Gunner" threw me. It isn't an aviation rating and the CG typically does not refer to anything as "Special Operations." Typically, Special Missions is used. If it is a term of art at, say, HITRON or MSRT, it is probably officially discouraged due to squeamishness about using the Special Operations moniker.
Put another way, it just didn't sound right for the reasons above, but I welcome clarification.
Hey, heres a quick clarification that i 'can' say ;) you know how it is...
Sep 2006 USCG took over the NCRAD (national capital region air defense) mission from US Customs. we now deploy a number of Dolphin MH-65C in support of this mission. the armed aircrew position is two fold & is refereed to as USCG NCR OPS GUNNER... officially there is no 'special' but thats what the crews like to call it. this is not a rating but a collateral on top of an aviation rating in only one air station. hope this clarifies things.
Sep 2006 USCG took over the NCRAD (national capital region air defense) mission from US Customs. we now deploy a number of Dolphin MH-65C in support of this mission. the armed aircrew position is two fold & is refereed to as USCG NCR OPS GUNNER... officially there is no 'special' but thats what the crews like to call it. this is not a rating but a collateral on top of an aviation rating in only one air station. hope this clarifies things.
Got it. :D
Very nice! I don't suppose it can come with a heavy barrel?
Very nice! I don't suppose it can come with a heavy barrel?
Nope and why would you want an HBAR?
C4
It's what I'am use to with my Bushy heavy barrel AR. I just can't get pass the thin/light barrel type AR's.
It's what I'am use to with my Bushy heavy barrel AR. I just can't get pass the thin/light barrel type AR's.
Gotcha. You like what you like. Just be aware that an HBAR does nothing for a semi-auto AR but add weight. This makes it just about the most useless thing on AR you could have.
C4
Gotcha. You like what you like. Just be aware that an HBAR does nothing for a semi-auto AR but add weight.
C4
I'll agree with you on that. Couple of pounds difference?
AR15barrels
01-02-08, 11:34
I'll agree with you on that. Couple of pounds difference?
8-12 ounces.
threebanger
01-02-08, 12:03
Hey, heres a quick clarification that i 'can' say ;) you know how it is...
Sep 2006 USCG took over the NCRAD (national capital region air defense) mission from US Customs. we now deploy a number of Dolphin MH-65C in support of this mission. the armed aircrew position is two fold & is refereed to as USCG NCR OPS GUNNER... officially there is no 'special' but thats what the crews like to call it. this is not a rating but a collateral on top of an aviation rating in only one air station. hope this clarifies things.
I think the proper term is AG or aviation gunner with no 'special operations' attached if you feel the need to advertise. Plus, last I heard there are NO plans to arm NCR helos & there never will be.
That sure is good service, really good. Glad to see he is not banned as it says under his old name, but rather just using a different name now by necessity. Seemed strange so soon after going out of his way...
Let me clear something up; Jesse was not banned. He is posting under the LWRC-Jesse account. I banned the MisterJG account because it was discovered he had two accounts which is a big no-no on this site. It was an honest mistake by Jesse but one account had to go. Since we ask that all dealers/manufactures be up front and honest about who they are, because we want you to know where the information is coming from, I thought the LWRC-Jesse account was the better account to keep.
So I guess now is to buy one of these or save for a piston AR!
Schuey2002
01-30-08, 00:11
Man, I am dying for a review of this rifle.. :(
If someone doesn't post one soon, I will probably go with an LMT instead.
Man, I am dying for a review of this rifle.. :(
If someone doesn't post one soon, I will probably go with an LMT instead.
I have already posted my thoughts on the weapon. You also have NEVER heard any of the people that bought one complain about a single thing. Believe me when I saw, that if there was an issue with this gun you would hear it all over the net. ;)
C4
Schuey2002
01-30-08, 13:49
I believe ya', Grant. :)
Since I am still in the process of saving up for a new M4, I was just hoping that someone would post some third party review goodness while I am waiting.. ;)
This from AZshooters website:
brando
Private First Class
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Total posts: 33
Location: phoenix
Gender: Unknown Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I bought a complete ads rifle with a 16 in barrel about 3 months ago and Ihave been extremely happy with it. I prefer it over my S&W mp15. Its seen about 2,000 rounds no failures or jams.
C4, I didn't see these new M4s on your website, are you stocking them or only taking pre-orders?
And how's the availability on separate uppers/lowers?
C4, I didn't see these new M4s on your website, are you stocking them or only taking pre-orders?
And how's the availability on separate uppers/lowers?
They are not on the website yet. We have uppers and complete weapons in stock.
C4
They are not on the website yet. We have uppers and complete weapons in stock.
C4
Can you send me two of them before you leave for SHOT show please?
thanks
I picked one of these up locally today. Had a talk with one of the guys at Shooters Vault about it and he told me some story about how they check all the measurements on every part instead of batch testing. Get it home, and the holes for the trigger guard were so far out of whack that I had to spend 10 minutes filing on my Magpul guard to get it to fit. So much for that story.
The upper and lower are slightly different hues and, as already stated, the carrier staking looks more like the slip of a driver than an intentional act.
The gas tube is crooked off to one side. Not so much that I think it will hit the carrier, but it is noticeably off to the naked eye.
Otherwise, the fit and finish seem to be acceptable. If it shoots as well as I'm lead to believe from the posts above then I would consider myself happy with the purchase. Not ecstatic, but at least happy.
Glad I bought mine at the beginning ,it is perfect . it has the gas key staked in a half assed way, no problem for me I restaked it threw it in my spare parts box and installed a BCM BCG. and the finsh is also a perfect match .:D
I picked one of these up locally today. Had a talk with one of the guys at Shooters Vault about it and he told me some story about how they check all the measurements on every part instead of batch testing. Get it home, and the holes for the trigger guard were so far out of whack that I had to spend 10 minutes filing on my Magpul guard to get it to fit. So much for that story.
The upper and lower are slightly different hues and, as already stated, the carrier staking looks more like the slip of a driver than an intentional act.
The gas tube is crooked off to one side. Not so much that I think it will hit the carrier, but it is noticeably off to the naked eye.
Otherwise, the fit and finish seem to be acceptable. If it shoots as well as I'm lead to believe from the posts above then I would consider myself happy with the purchase. Not ecstatic, but at least happy.
They use Stag Arms BCG's and they need to be fixed (gas key is not staked properly and the extractor internals need to be upgraded). This is why we order the ADS Basic AR's without a BCG and use LMT.
Lowers are made my LAR I believe (who makes them for BM and about 100 other companies).
The gas tube deal could just be an optical illusion. If the gas key interfaces with it correctly, then there is no issue.
C4
They use Stag Arms BCG's and they need to be fixed (gas key is not staked properly and the extractor internals need to be upgraded). This is why we order the ADS Basic AR's without a BCG and use LMT.
Lowers are made my LAR I believe (who makes them for BM and about 100 other companies).
The gas tube deal could just be an optical illusion. If the gas key interfaces with it correctly, then there is no issue.
C4
Is your price with the LMT BCG still $825?
My two nephews are anxiously awaiting theirs...............
Is your price with the LMT BCG still $825?
Yes.
C4
They use Stag Arms BCG's and they need to be fixed (gas key is not staked properly and the extractor internals need to be upgraded). This is why we order the ADS Basic AR's without a BCG and use LMT.
C4
Does this mean that all stag rifles come with this problem?
Does this mean that all stag rifles come with this problem?
Correct.
C4
so when you do that work what exactly are you fixing? Like... what problems can this cause that you are preventing? This isn't an inquisition, I am just trying to learn.
DocMinster
04-27-08, 18:39
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20cuts.jpg
I hate to be a jerk but there have been other threads on some other sub Tier 1 weapons and feed ramps like these got slammed. Do all the ADS ramps match like this?
I dont think you are being a jerk....I was just reading the post to see if someone had asked the same question...
I too am wondering if there would be a feed issue with the step off
Doc
so when you do that work what exactly are you fixing? Like... what problems can this cause that you are preventing? This isn't an inquisition, I am just trying to learn.
We are making sure that the gas key does not come loose. Once this happens, you have a bolt gun. ;)
C4
I dont think you are being a jerk....I was just reading the post to see if someone had asked the same question...
I too am wondering if there would be a feed issue with the step off
Doc
No feed issues of any kind.
C4
pistolman1974
05-06-08, 22:19
From what I've read so far it seems that the ADS comes with the standard car buffer.
Is the upgrade to the H buffer necessary?
What are the advantages of the H buffer over the standard car buffer?
Kurt Reifert
05-07-08, 06:37
H buffer slows the bolt down slightly.
Robb Jensen
05-07-08, 06:54
H buffer slows the bolt down slightly.
Exactly.
The heavier buffers aid in and allow for easier extraction (w/CAR length gas systems) because they delay the bolt opening and allow the pressures within the barrel to drop so that extraction is easier. The extraction is harder the shorter the gas system and gets harder the shorter the barrel. This is why 5 coil, Crane 0-rings and black buffers are used in carbines.
Some gun companies go to smaller gas ports to help with the extraction problem, it really works but can cause short stroking if using weaker ammo and/or weaker ammo in combination with a heavier buffer (then you may find yourself with a rifle that will run on 5.56mm NATO pressure ammo but not .223 SAMMI spec.). So basically you should test for short stroking if using a heavier buffer in any carbine. Load 1 round per mag and shoot the rifle, it should lock back everytime. Try this at least 20-30 times with the ammo you use.
OldNavyGuy
05-07-08, 08:20
I dont think you are being a jerk....I was just reading the post to see if someone had asked the same question...
I too am wondering if there would be a feed issue with the step off
Doc
It's nice to see another quality AR hit the market.
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20cuts.jpg
in MY OPINION the above photo certainly does not exude "quality", as far as the other photos go most gun photos always look "good", but in the following photo:
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Upper%20lower%20side%20view1.jpg
i would like to see a better alignment in the raised portion between upper and lower to be a "quality" peice...., just MY OPINION of course :D
Kurt Reifert
05-07-08, 08:39
Exactly.
The heavier buffers aid in and allow for easier extraction (w/CAR length gas systems) because they delay the bolt opening and allow the pressures within the barrel to drop so that extraction is easier. The extraction is harder the shorter the gas system and gets harder the shorter the barrel. This is why 5 coil, Crane 0-rings and black buffers are used in carbines.
Some gun companies go to smaller gas ports to help with the extraction problem, it really works but can cause short stroking if using weaker ammo and/or weaker ammo in combination with a heavier buffer (then you may find yourself with a rifle that will run on 5.56mm NATO pressure ammo but not .223 SAMMI spec.). So basically you should test for short stroking if using a heavier buffer in any carbine. Load 1 round per mag and shoot the rifle, it should lock back everytime. Try this at least 20-30 times with the ammo you use.
Gas ports also erode (enlarge) as the carbine is used. That erosion allows more pressure to enter the system which accelerates the operation of the bolt.
A brand new carbine will probably be fine with the standard buffer, but after 500-1000 rounds you may need to switch to a heavier buffer to combat that.
Adding a suppressor really plays havoc with the gas system.
From what I've read so far it seems that the ADS comes with the standard car buffer.
Is the upgrade to the H buffer necessary?
What are the advantages of the H buffer over the standard car buffer?
Do you HAVE to have it? No. Is it a good idea? Yes.
C4
masterteam1976
05-07-08, 13:37
do I have the chance to import this rifle cause in my country the price of an AR is 25.000 USD :eek:
check out the link
http://www.silahdiyari.com/UrunDetay.aspx?id=675
AR15barrels
05-08-08, 17:43
I too am wondering if there would be a feed issue with the step off
Personally, I would put a die grinder to those ramps and make them match up better, but that's just me...
ADS has just released their Middy uppers!
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Middy%20upper.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Middy%20barrel%20profile.jpg
Jay Cunningham
05-08-08, 17:56
This obviously invites a diect comparison to the PK-offered Sabre units...
Awaiting info and pricing.
ADS has just released their Middy uppers!
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Middy%20upper.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Middy%20barrel%20profile.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/Complete%20middy%20AR.jpg
C4
This obviously invites a diect comparison to the PK-offered Sabre units...
Awaiting info and pricing.
The PK units (with RRA BCG) go for $570. We are selling the ADS uppers with LMT BCG's for $580.
C4
Nice! How much are they running for the complete rifle?
Nice! How much are they running for the complete rifle?
$840
C4
Here are a couple of pics of my ADS from G&R . I was in the process of cleaning it , that's some Hoppe's solvent around the ramps.The quality on mine is pretty good.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/cojam_photos/IMG_0522-1.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/cojam_photos/IMG_0496.jpghttp://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/cojam_photos/IMG_0498.jpg
Grant, are the ADS midlength uppers on your site somewhere? I wasn't able to find them, or any ADS products for that matter.
Grant, are the ADS midlength uppers on your site somewhere? I wasn't able to find them, or any ADS products for that matter.
They are not so plesae give us a call to order.
C4
GRANT , how are the ADS Middy uppers as compaired to the BCM middy uppers ? I have been waiting for the BCM middy for over a year and if these are as good I'm not waiting any more. the ADS M4 16 inch I have has been great . other than the trick barrel Bcm use's are they equal in Quality ?
GRANT , how are the ADS Middy uppers as compaired to the BCM middy uppers ? I have been waiting for the BCM middy for over a year and if these are as good I'm not waiting any more. the ADS M4 16 inch I have has been great . other than the trick barrel Bcm use's are they equal in Quality ?
The BCM barrels are HPT'd, the ADS's are not. The BCM's are most likely slightly lighter in weight. That is about it I think.
C4
So if I understand you ADS has no M197 HPT and maybe no ASTME 1444-01 MP test ,and they are tests that are preformed B4 they can be certified and marked . even though they both use 4150 BCM is tested and ADS is not . so in fact they may be as good or equal if the test's were preformed on the ADS. In my useage of the weapon it may not matter to me as I will not be stressing it with FA fire.
So if I understand you ADS has no M197 HPT and maybe no ASTME 1444-01 MP test ,and they are tests that are preformed B4 they can be certified and marked . even though they both use 4150 BCM is tested and ADS is not . so in fact they may be as good or equal if the test's were preformed on the ADS. In my useage of the weapon it may not matter to me as I will not be stressing it with FA fire.
The barrels are MP'd.
C4
I'd love to see some pictures of the ADS mid length uppers.
What does the barrel look like under the handguards?
I'd love to see some pictures of the ADS mid length uppers.
What does the barrel look like under the handguards?
Uh, look at the top of this page. ;)
C4
Not to shabby :)
Very nice. Whats the price?
pistolman1974
05-10-08, 19:36
Are there an advantages to a Middy compared to the standard m4 configuration?
Uh, look at the top of this page. ;)
C4
The only pictures I see are the ones posted by COJAM.
That's funny - Grants pictures show up in Internet Explorer but not in Firefox. I got 'em now.
Is that a medcon or lightweight?
It sure looks like a medcon to me.
Just Got a new job. I will be on the market for another AR in the next couple of months.... This looks like a contender.
You may well be hearing from me soon Grant. ;)
Is it possible to add the ADS rifle to the AR-15 comparison chart?
I am probably going to get one of these (unless something else comes along that sounds better.)The pics that Grant put up look just fine to me as one I would buy. I would have to consider what type of sights I want. My eyesight is not what it used to be but I still seen to do a good job with the sights that are on my Garand/M1 Carbine and other C&R rifles that I have.
I like the military sights but a scope would make me more accurate.
I would need advice since money would be an object .
Later,
Parmour
If money is an object, an AR might not be for you. They are amazing but they are expensive at every step. To truly enjoy it, its going to cost you.
Hi,
Any positive advice from anyone ?
Later,
Parmour
Just to show that there is beauty in individuality, I think it looks rather clunky or junky or ugly or something . . . but I'm just a Colt/FN fanatic I guess.
i noticed the keyhole logo on the ADS upper. i was told anything with a key hole logo is made by CMT. Noveske uppers have the same keyhole logo. anyone know if this is true?
Kurt Reifert
06-14-08, 11:03
That's forge mark. Not an indication of who machined the part.
Look for an article on ADS rifles in the October issue of SWAT magazine.
As someone who owns a ADS M4 and 9 other AR's includeing A Colt 6920 and LMT I can tell you first hand the ADS is first class and shoots,and functions as well as the best . all I did to my ADS was to install a BCM M16 BCG,it did not need it but all my AR's have a M16 BCG . my advice is if you want a great M4 type AR than you can't beat an ADS for the money . by the way ADS now makes a middy M4 also for under $900.00 and it is sweet . I have shot one and I can tell you no one makes a middy of that quality fo the price.
HAIL-CAESAR
06-17-08, 03:21
I'd like to hear some reports of the rifles that under went a training course. If the rifle is worthy of the hype and the manufacturer doesn't try to cut corners down the road, then this might be a dandy. Imagine a rifle that's done right in the same price range as BushWacker, Panther .223 Arms, and Dremel Rock River. Oh, the insanity!!! Hopefully it's all true and the ADS puts the financial hurt to the "just as good as " companies.
warrior9504
06-17-08, 21:41
I've emailed and left several phone messages with Grant trying to order one of these ADS rifles but I can't get a hold of anyone. Is something up?
Maybe, people realize that guns may be outlawed again, and Grant is just really busy...come on Supreme Court, you already screwed this country twice (rights for terrorists and illegals:mad: ) this year give us at least ONE good decision!!!!
I spoke with Grant and Roxanne yesterday. They said they were backed up on their phone orders about two days right now.
Kurt Reifert
06-18-08, 08:26
I'd like to hear some reports of the rifles that under went a training course. If the rifle is worthy of the hype and the manufacturer doesn't try to cut corners down the road, then this might be a dandy. Imagine a rifle that's done right in the same price range as BushWacker, Panther .223 Arms, and Dremel Rock River. Oh, the insanity!!! Hopefully it's all true and the ADS puts the financial hurt to the "just as good as " companies.
I've got over 700 rounds thru an ADS mid-length. First 300 were in one session where we fired examples of every piece of crap ammo I could find and the second round was all M855 Lake City 5.56.
These rounds were fired at a good pace similar to what you would find in a well run class using Pmags exclusively.
The only malfunctions were with some old Radway Green that shortstroked the gun.
These guns are good to go.
The ADS websight lists their stocking dealers.
ADSrifles.com
I've emailed and left several phone messages with Grant trying to order one of these ADS rifles but I can't get a hold of anyone. Is something up?
Maybe, people realize that guns may be outlawed again, and Grant is just really busy...come on Supreme Court, you already screwed this country twice (rights for terrorists and illegals:mad: ) this year give us at least ONE good decision!!!!
Phone is sometimes a hard way to get me. E-mail works best.
Something is up for sure up. Our sales are off the chart every month and we are a one man show running a full time store front and internet based business.
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ADS/M4%20cuts.jpg
I hate to be a jerk but there have been other threads on some other sub Tier 1 weapons and feed ramps like these got slammed. Do all the ADS ramps match like this?
These are the feed ramps on my BCM upper which everyone I know considers top of the line. Since this picture was taken I have had a few thousand flawless rounds through it. Its never seemed to affect function.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n262/poohbigb/feedramps5.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n262/poohbigb/feedramps3.jpg
I guess I don't consider ever so slightly misaligned feed ramps a problem.
Someone asked if anyone had run a training course with it. I have been to Frontsight and put on two training courses of my own with my ADS Alpha model.
Not one malfunction or problem of any sort. She got pretty warm during a few of the extended drills but never bobbled. Still looks great and still MOA or better.
These are the feed ramps on my BCM upper which everyone I know considers top of the line. Since this picture was taken I have had a few thousand flawless rounds through it. Its never seemed to affect function.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n262/poohbigb/feedramps5.jpg
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n262/poohbigb/feedramps3.jpg
I guess I don't consider ever so slightly misaligned feed ramps a problem.
M4 feedramps aren't a necessity at this point thanks to the MagPul PMAG. In fact they are completely bypassed--at least that's the argument.
any functional difference or reason for the different depths of the feedramps? noticed some are very deep like LMT, and some very shallow like noveske. from what i can see above looks like other companies vary feed ramp depth as well.
any functional difference or reason for the different depths of the feedramps? noticed some are very deep like LMT, and some very shallow like noveske. from what i can see above looks like other companies vary feed ramp depth as well.
CMT M4 upper receivers use VERY small feedramps. BCM and LMT use a different manufacturer for their uppers.
C4
CMT M4 upper receivers use VERY small feedramps. BCM and LMT use a different manufacturer for their uppers.
C4
yeah, i believe Cerro forge makes CMTs and Ferro does LMTs...thought i read that somewhere on here.
any functional difference with deep or shallow ramps? would deeper ramps be a "safer" choice?
thx.
AR15barrels
08-07-08, 17:09
CMT M4 upper receivers use VERY small feedramps.
any functional difference with deep or shallow ramps? would deeper ramps be a "safer" choice?
I find that uppers with smaller feedramps actually have the feedramps in the same place as receivers with more pronounced feedramps.
It's just that the inside front face of the receiver is milled further forward, removing some of the lower part of the ramps.
If you measure through a bunch of receivers, measure from the front face of the threads to the front inside face of the receiver.
You will be able to see a difference in this length quite easily.
In most cases where feedramps are actually beneficial, you can see that the bullet tip is touching the receiver about 1/16" down from the edge of the barrel extension's ramp.
So, it really does not matter if you have 1/16" long ramps or 1/8" long ramps as long as you have that top 1/16".
If money is an object, an AR might not be for you. They are amazing but they are expensive at every step. To truly enjoy it, its going to cost you.
:eek:
Sounds like a good sig line for someone.
.
I find that uppers with smaller feedramps actually have the feedramps in the same place as receivers with more pronounced feedramps.
It's just that the inside front face of the receiver is milled further forward, removing some of the lower part of the ramps.
If you measure through a bunch of receivers, measure from the front face of the threads to the front inside face of the receiver.
You will be able to see a difference in this length quite easily.
In most cases where feedramps are actually beneficial, you can see that the bullet tip is touching the receiver about 1/16" down from the edge of the barrel extension's ramp.
So, it really does not matter if you have 1/16" long ramps or 1/8" long ramps as long as you have that top 1/16".
just to make sure i understand you correctly...you're saying that you really need that 1/16" below the barrel extention part of the ramp, not the receiver extention part (below the parting line between the barrel ext and receiver ext).
i think i've seen a pic from your site on here of M4 ramps labeled "good", "ok" and "bad". i believe those rating were in relation to the barrel extention part of the ramp.
thx.
AR15barrels
08-08-08, 22:05
just to make sure i understand you correctly...you're saying that you really need that 1/16" below the barrel extention part of the ramp, not the receiver extention part (below the parting line between the barrel ext and receiver ext).
i think i've seen a pic from your site on here of M4 ramps labeled "good", "ok" and "bad". i believe those rating were in relation to the barrel extention part of the ramp.
thx.
If you have M4 feedramps, it's the first 1/16" below the receiver/extension parting line that's most important.
Even the shallowest M4 feedramped receivers will have that first 1/16".
The good, ok and bad are referring to the combination of barrel extension and receiver.
Note that the "bad" one has an M4 feedramp in the receiver, but a rifle extension that overlaps into the M4 cut receiver and creates a catch point for bullets, hence it's labeled "bad".
The good, ok and bad do NOT refer to the quality of the actual cuts, just the presence or lack of cuts.
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/feedramps2.jpg
If that doesn't clear it up nothing will ,nice job .:D
AR15barrels
08-09-08, 22:14
If that doesn't clear it up nothing will ,nice job .:D
That's a really old picture.
Is this the first time you have seen it?
Perhaps you need to go explore here:
www.ar15barrels.com/tech
If you have M4 feedramps, it's the first 1/16" below the receiver/extension parting line that's most important.
Even the shallowest M4 feedramped receivers will have that first 1/16".
The good, ok and bad are referring to the combination of barrel extension and receiver.
Note that the "bad" one has an M4 feedramp in the receiver, but a rifle extension that overlaps into the M4 cut receiver and creates a catch point for bullets, hence it's labeled "bad".
The good, ok and bad do NOT refer to the quality of the actual cuts, just the presence or lack of cuts.
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/feedramps2.jpg
ahhhh got it. i didn't realize the 1/16th is really all you need in the receiver part of the M4 ramp. good to know.
out of curiosity, what is the height of the M4 feed ramp receiver section of the M4 feedramp pic marked "good". looks like maybe 1/8th or 3/16ths...?
why is it that rifle feed ramps cuts do not need that 1/16" below the parting line with a rifle receiver? different angle?
thx for the great info!
AR15barrels
08-10-08, 00:37
out of curiosity, what is the height of the M4 feed ramp receiver section of the M4 feedramp pic marked "good". looks like maybe 1/8th or 3/16ths...?
why is it that rifle feed ramps cuts do not need that 1/16" below the parting line with a rifle receiver? different angle?
Around 3/32".
Yes, they are a different angle by about 7 degrees.
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/ramp-angle.jpg
Rifle actions function slower due to the longer gas tube.
This gives more TIME for the next round in the mag to reach the top of the magazine column and be stripped off the mag and into the chamber.
Carbines literally "out-run" the magazine and the extended feedramps let the round feed, even if it's not at the top of the magazine column yet.
OldNavyGuy
08-10-08, 09:41
i had one that looked exactly like the one marked "BAD".., a Dremel and die makers files made it look similar to the M4 extension, receiver, only much smoother and polished to a near mirror like finish, never had a failure to feed since.
If you have M4 feedramps, it's the first 1/16" below the receiver/extension parting line that's most important.
Even the shallowest M4 feedramped receivers will have that first 1/16".
The good, ok and bad are referring to the combination of barrel extension and receiver.
Note that the "bad" one has an M4 feedramp in the receiver, but a rifle extension that overlaps into the M4 cut receiver and creates a catch point for bullets, hence it's labeled "bad".
The good, ok and bad do NOT refer to the quality of the actual cuts, just the presence or lack of cuts.
http://ar15barrels.com/tech/feedramps2.jpg
Great post. :cool:
My two Colts have great ramps, but my Bushmaster's are not so great (upper left photo). In all fairness, the Bushmaster has never had a FTF or FTE after 4,000 plus rounds of 5.56, either. But it sure looks like they just make it by a hair...
AR15barrels
08-10-08, 13:04
my Bushmaster's are not so great (upper left photo).
In all fairness, the Bushmaster has never had a FTF or FTE after 4,000 plus rounds of 5.56, either.
The net result is what's most important, not the path to get there. :cool:
Great post. :cool:
My two Colts have great ramps, but my Bushmaster's are not so great (upper left photo). In all fairness, the Bushmaster has never had a FTF or FTE after 4,000 plus rounds of 5.56, either. But it sure looks like they just make it by a hair...
really? my bushmaster looks like the upper right photo.
really? my bushmaster looks like the upper right photo.
Very interesting.
Mine is an A3 Izzy 14.5" w/ perm hider (16.1") I bought in '05. What is yours?
AR15barrels
08-11-08, 03:44
really? my bushmaster looks like the upper right photo.
Either it's one of the Texas DPS ones from a few years back, or it's a more current gun.
The most current bushmasters seem to be coming with M4 feedramps.
Either it's one of the Texas DPS ones from a few years back, or it's a more current gun.
The most current bushmasters seem to be coming with M4 feedramps.
Yes, I received it about a month ago.
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