Are revolvers somewhat "delicate?"

[jollygreengiant]

I read a book about WW2 Shanghi. In this book the "Captain: an American Policeman" discussed how the revolver could not stand the tortue of this environment (many gunfights and physical abuse-droped, etc). He said they totally converted to the 1911s. He consiodered the 1911 far superior to any revolver (at that time ~1940).

W.E. Fairbairn and (Major) E.A. Sykes who worked together out in
Shanghai on the Reserve Unit / Riot Squad of the Shanghai Municipal Police (SMP

Is this still true? Are revolvers knocked "out of time" easy and have low shot count abilities (maybe 1000 rounds vs Glock 30,000 rounds-or more)?

Have a Blessed Day!

[CAVDOC]

most revolvers are very strudy-especially smith and wessons. I have owned 80+ year old S&W's that were in perfect time and shot well. MY experience is that Colt revolvers were/are somewhat more delicate than Smiths. Back in the 1940's colts were more common in use and this may be the source of the statements at the time. I'd say 90+% of the old smiths I see are functionally perfect, while colts in the same age range seem to be about 50/50 on function and timing.

[ucrt]

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I think, between revolvers and autos, without a doubt revolvers are the "weaker sex".
I think revolvers are still used mainly for their simplicity and power.

I have seen a lot of revolvers with bent cranes, out of time, and bent ejector rods. All of which can happen with one unlucky drop and can stop a revolver in its tracks. I've seen autos with indications that they have been dropped but they keep working.

I know if I there was a chance of dropping a gun in the dirt, I'd rather drop an auto. It would at least get one shot off, where as a revolver may not.

But maybe it's just me...

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[oldtexan]

I read a book about WW2 Shanghi. In this book the "Captain: an American Policeman" discussed how the revolver could not stand the tortue of this environment (many gunfights and physical abuse-droped, etc). He said they totally converted to the 1911s. He consiodered the 1911 far superior to any revolver (at that time ~1940).

W.E. Fairbairn and (Major) E.A. Sykes who worked together out in
Shanghai on the Reserve Unit / Riot Squad of the Shanghai Municipal Police (SMP

Is this still true? Are revolvers knocked "out of time" easy and have low shot count abilities (maybe 1000 rounds vs Glock 30,000 rounds-or more)?

Have a Blessed Day!

I googled the title "Captain: An American Policeman" and was unsucessfull in finding any book by that title. I checked Amazon.com and also came up empty. Who wrote it? Got a link? ISBN?

Are you maybe referring to Fairbairn and Sykes' book entitled "Shooting to Live", originally published in 1942? I have the Paladin Press reprint from 2007. In Chap II of that book, the authors do express a preference for the auto pistol over the revolver for open carry by uniformed police and military personnel. They assert that reliable auto opistols are available, but I couldn't find any claim that revolvers were unreliable, or even that revolvers were less reliable than autos.

[jollygreengiant]

I googled the title "Captain: An American Policeman" and was unsucessfull in finding any book by that title. I checked Amazon.com and also came up empty. Who wrote it? Got a link? ISBN?

Are you maybe referring to Fairbairn and Sykes' book entitled "Shooting to Live", originally published in 1942? I have the Paladin Press reprint from 2007. In Chap II of that book, the authors do express a preference for the auto pistol over the revolver for open carry by uniformed police and military personnel. They assert that reliable auto opistols are available, but I couldn't find any claim that revolvers were unreliable, or even that revolvers were less reliable than autos.

Yes, "Shooting to Live" is correct. I could not remeber the Title (read a long time ago), all I remebered was that he was training the Police.
I looked on Scribd.com (check page 29, 30, 66, 67, 84, 85, 100 & 104) for revolver issues; under deplorsable conditions."

[Wayne Dobbs]

Dropping a revolver is bad juju. I've seen quite a few rendered useless by drops (and a couple of head strikes) over a long LE career. Having said that, I think the revolver makes sense for most of the gun carrying population out there. I'm not including the well trained shooter/operator, but about 90% of the CCW crowd.

[wesprt]

Back in the days of non shrouded ejector rods and tapered barrels this may have been the case. You drop a revolver now and pretty much the only things that can happen to it are broken sights.. Same as with an auto. There's a chance the hammer spur might possibly break but it will still work in double action.

[jollygreengiant]

Back in the days of non shrouded ejector rods and tapered barrels this may have been the case. You drop a revolver now and pretty much the only things that can happen to it are broken sights.. Same as with an auto. There's a chance the hammer spur might possibly break but it will still work in double action.

"The exact problems quoted (pg 66-67): broken firing pins, damaged pawls, or cylinder ratchets and bent cranes. Dropping on a hard surface puts crane out of alignment & must overhaul revolver. Also, mentions barrel catch springs.
Pistols: Very reliable, easier to shoot and rare breakage-ejectors and extractors" (Shooting To Live,
CAPTAIN WILLIAM EWART FAIRBAIRN & CAPTAIN ‘ERIC ANTHONY SYKES)

[Lucky Strike]

when i think of my GP100 the last word that comes to mind is delicate.

Although i guess i haven't dropped it a bunch on hard surfaces

[19852]

I can't speak to delicacy, I try not to drop my guns or use them as clubs. But revolvers can be sensitive to dirt. Shoot dirty ammo in a revolver and you may have to clean it after 20-30 rounds. Unburnt powder gets in between the cylinder and forcing cone and it seizes up.

[Jay Cunningham]

I'm not sure that "delicate" is the right word, but the mechanism is certainly more complex than a semi-automatic pistol.

[Denali]

I do believe revolvers are much more complex mechanisms then the average auto pistol happens to be, as to the revolver being the weaker sister, perhaps.

[Silvanus]

I think so, yes.

I've seen countless revolvers fail in my short time since I'm in LE. They are not as reliable as some might think. Older S&Ws (I personally owned 3) seem to be much better though.

Also the standard sights on S&W revolvers are extremely fragile. I never understood why we (and American cops at the time where most of them carried wheelguns) don't use the fixed sight models or upgrade the sights to something like this:

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/50/35/28/xdutys10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=379&u=11503528)

[glocktogo]

Revolvers may still have the reliability edge when neglect is a factor, but they're definitely not as durable. As someone who's put 10K+ rounds through a competition revolver in the span of a single year, they definitely require a lot more care & maintenance to keep running under severe use.

[jollygreengiant]

I appreciate the information.

[TiroFijo]

You have to put it into the context of old M&P and Police Positive revolvers... I've seen plenty of these oldies abused and they did not take it well. They are more complicate, and specially the old colt with the ejector flying in the wind were prone to damage if dropped. The steels were not as hard as the ones used today, and combine it with the slim frame and barrel of an old police positive and they were not a match for a slab sided 1911 regarding abuse.

[okie john]

You have to put it into the context of old M&P and Police Positive revolvers....

Also, policing a British colony wasn't like policing the 21st century US. Sykes, Fairbairn, and Applegate used tactics that would instantly end LE careers today, including pistol-whipping uncooperative suspects. I'd take a 1911 over a Colt Police Positive for that any day.


Okie John

[Alpha Sierra]

"The exact problems quoted (pg 66-67): broken firing pins, damaged pawls, or cylinder ratchets and bent cranes. Dropping on a hard surface puts crane out of alignment & must overhaul revolver. Also, mentions barrel catch springs.
Pistols: Very reliable, easier to shoot and rare breakage-ejectors and extractors" (Shooting To Live,
CAPTAIN WILLIAM EWART FAIRBAIRN & CAPTAIN ‘ERIC ANTHONY SYKES)

The science of heat treatment has some a long ways since Fairbairn's time.

Concidentally to this discussion, I dropped my S&W Model 65 on concrete yesterday and it still works just fine.

[JonInWA]

In heavy use, I believe that a semiautomatic pistol (i.e., Glock, HK) will go far longer without cleaning and with minimal lubrication. While a revolver action requires little lubrication, areas of a revolver do require cleaning.

While my Ruger GP100 and Security Six are certainly sturdy and rugged, they are susceptible to their cylinder ball races becoming clogged with powder granules, etc., stiffening the cylinder rotation.

Even in stainless steel, I believe that a Glock and/or HK (and others, such as the SMith & Wesson M&P) are more weather impervious.

Best, Jon

[Dienekes]

Back in the day my agency issued 3" Ruger Speed Sixes; some personally owned revolvers were ok, and Glocks and SIGs were just coming in. We probably had more proficient shooters than the average agency.

As an instructor I used blue loc-tite on ejector rods and stressed keeping the recess under the extractor star clean and dry. I had one revolver go down in all those years, and that one from the cylinder latch screw loosening. I am reliably informed that one of the tests Ruger used for demonstrating the ruggedness of those guns was to throw it across the range, and also to put it under the wheel of a pickup and peel out. There was some road rash but the guns still worked. I believe it.

It seems like the Rugers are the most reliable, followed by M&P/K frames, and old Colts the least.

If your finger works the revolver will probably work. If it acts up, the cause is probably easily identified. They are indeed more complex but most parts are low stress and unless severely abused, will work with minimal maintenance for decades. There is something behind the old adage, "six for sure".

IMHO semiautos can be pretty quirky and hard to troubleshoot at times.

[skyugo]

interesting, i've long suspected that revolvers were a bit more fragile than most automatic pistols, but "popular knowledge" tends to go the other way. i guess because revolvers use the trigger pull to rotate the cylinder and reload, while automatic pistols use "magic" to reload themselves :D

[Outlander Systems]

My two cents:

Two biggest reliability issues:

FUBAR'd up timing under extensive heavy use.

And the biggie, for me, is that the operational components are not "sealed" like they are in an auto. The working parts are open and exposed for all kinds of shit to work its way into in the field.