View Full Version : Anyone watching the chaos in Egypt?
Belmont31R
01-28-11, 10:38
Al Jazeera live: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
So far reports of gun fire, lots of fires, protesters got a troop transporter on a bridge trying to push it into the Nile, curfew in effect but being ignored, reports of few people killed....
Also some coverage on CNN....
Belmont31R
01-28-11, 11:17
Hildebeast calls for Egypt gov to turn the internet back on and not resort to violence. Says people have rights of expression....
Some military tanks giving thumbs up to protestors and greeting them. Sounds like some military units are siding with the protestors....
Gov has little to no handle on the situation....
variablebinary
01-28-11, 11:27
This could easily turn into an Iranian style Islamic revolution. We should be watching
platoonDaddy
01-28-11, 11:29
This could easily turn into an Iranian style Islamic revolution. We should be watching
For sure the Muslim Brotherhood is behind this and our leader oSama sitting on his ass.
Belmont31R
01-28-11, 11:37
Party HQ of the ruling party being attacked and set on fire.
Ministry of Foreign Affairs being attacked.
Burning police vehicles...
Belmont31R
01-28-11, 11:39
For sure the Muslim Brotherhood is behind this and our leader oSama sitting on his ass.
Looks like they are getting their open political competition eh?
WHEN HE met with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in September, President Obama brought up the need for "a vibrant civil society, open political competition, and credible and transparent elections in Egypt," according to a White House summary. It was a well-timed intervention: Egypt's parliamentary elections are scheduled for next month, and a broad pro-democracy movement is pressing for reforms, beginning with the regime's acceptance of domestic and international poll monitors.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/29/AR2010102906502.html
Belmont31R
01-28-11, 11:44
Al Jazeera showing protesters welcoming military APC's. Cheering and waving flags.
Maybe the mil is taking control of the country? AJ reporter in Alexandria says protesters there welcoming military, too.
The military taking control sounds like A LOT better option than Muslim Brotherhood. No one wants a radical muslim government in control of the Suez Canal....
Maybe:
A coup followed by military dictatorship with fake elections.
I wonder if that is the change that Egyptians were hoping for.
Hey, they just burned a nice truck.
GermanSynergy
01-28-11, 13:07
A military dictatorship friendly to the interests of United States & Israel beats a country run by the Muslim Brotherhood.
Al Jazeera showing protesters welcoming military APC's. Cheering and waving flags.
Maybe the mil is taking control of the country? AJ reporter in Alexandria says protesters there welcoming military, too.
The military taking control sounds like A LOT better option than Muslim Brotherhood. No one wants a radical muslim government in control of the Suez Canal....
The_War_Wagon
01-28-11, 14:58
FOX Live Newstream fro your computer is running live Al Arabiya, but w/o sound. If you can read Hadji, there are Arabic subtitles.
Anyone got an office pool on the over/under of gas per gallon, once the Suez Canal closes? :eek:
GermanSynergy
01-28-11, 15:02
I'd hope that the United States/EU/Israel would have a vested interest in keeping the Suez Canal open for business. I could be wrong, however.
FOX Live Newstream fro your computer is running live Al Arabiya, but w/o sound. If you can read Hadji, there are Arabic subtitles.
Anyone got an office pool on the over/under of gas per gallon, once the Suez Canal closes? :eek:
VooDoo6Actual
01-28-11, 15:03
https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=10350
Some people can't get the link so here it is w/ OSAC permission:
The U.S. Department of State released the following Travel Alert on January 28, 2011:
The U.S. Department of State alerts U.S. citizens to ongoing political and social unrest in Egypt. Violent demonstrations on January 28 took place in several areas of Cairo and other parts of the country, disrupting road travel between city centers and airports. Disruptions in communications included the interruption of internet and mobile telephone service. Given this situation, the Department of State urges U.S. citizens to defer non-essential travel to Egypt at this time and advises U.S. citizens currently in Egypt to defer non-essential movement and to exercise caution. This Travel Alert expires on February 28, 2011.
In the event of demonstrations, U.S. citizens in Egypt should remain in their residences or hotels until the situation stabilizes. Security forces may block off the area around the U.S. Embassy during demonstrations, and U.S. citizens should not attempt to come to the U.S. Embassy or the Tahrir Square area at such times. The Embassy duty officer is available to U.S. citizens for emergencies at +20 1 2797-3300 during evening and weekend hours and the American Citizens Services Section can be reached at +20 1 2797-2301 during business hours, Sunday to Thursday from 8:00 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. and at consularcairoacs@state.gov.
Demonstrations have degenerated on several occasions into violent clashes between police and protesters, resulting in injuries and extensive property damage. While demonstrations have not been directed toward Westerners, U.S. citizens are urged to remain alert to local security developments and to be vigilant regarding their personal security. The U.S. Department of State strongly urges U.S. citizens to avoid all demonstrations, as even peaceful ones can quickly become unruly and a foreigner could become a target of harassment or worse. If caught unexpectedly near a demonstration, U.S. citizens should obey instructions from police and leave the area as quickly as possible. U.S. citizens resident in Egypt should monitor local news broadcasts and U.S. citizen visitors should ask tour guides and hotel officials about any planned demonstrations in the locations they plan to visit. U.S. citizens should carry identification and a cell phone which works in Egypt.
U.S. citizens in Egypt are encouraged to enroll in the Smart Travelers Enrollment Program (STEP) at the following website: https://travelregistration.state.gov. U.S. citizens without internet access may enroll directly at the U.S. Embassy. By enrolling, U.S. citizens make it easier for the Embassy to contact them in case of emergency.
Updated information on travel and security in Egypt may be obtained from the Department of State by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States and Canada or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. For further information, please consult the Country Specific Information for Egypt, as well as the Worldwide Caution.
The Embassy is located at 5 Tawfik Diab Street (formerly known as Latin America Street), Garden City, Cairo. For further information, U.S. citizens may call the Embassy’s American Citizen Services Unit at 2797-2301 during business hours, Sunday to Thursday from 8:00 a.m. until 4:30 p.m. For emergencies after business hours and on weekends and holidays, U.S. citizens can contact the Embassy Duty Officer via the Embassy switchboard on 2797-3300.
RogerinTPA
01-28-11, 15:52
This could easily turn into an Iranian style Islamic revolution. We should be watching
Especially with the muslim brotherhood is behind the curtain. This will not turn out well for the west and the US in that region.
Suwannee Tim
01-28-11, 18:47
President Obama styles himself after JFK but I am afraid Jimmuh Carter may be the former prez he most closely resembles. Mubarak has repressed all opposition but the Islamists, if the Egyptian government falls it may well fall to Islamic radicals. This would be a very serious blow to US interests.
I'd hope that the United States/EU/Israel would have a vested interest in keeping the Suez Canal open for business. I could be wrong, however.
The West had a vested interest in keeping Iran pro-Western.
Magic_Salad0892
01-28-11, 19:08
My mom is spending her entire birthday watching this today and calling me and giving me updates.
It sounds like it has the potential to turn into another Pakistan situation, bad news for Israel too.
I am cautiously optimistic and a bit skeptical. But, hopefully this will break out across the middle east. When this happens in Saudi Arabia wake me up.
In the mean time, food for thought:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJjuVzZQj0U
variablebinary
01-28-11, 23:36
If I were president of the U.S. I would have the CIA and PSYOPS over there clipping all radical leaders of the Islamic brotherhood that pop their heads up. Obama should not pull a Carter
Magic_Salad0892
01-28-11, 23:48
Yeah, but the president doesn't want to take out his brothers.
The situation in Egypt is extremely serious. If radicals are able to seize the country (similar to what is happening in Lebanon with the Hezbollah) we very well could see another war involving Israel.
One has to remember that the Muslim Brotherhood is one of the preeminent terrorist organizations and they were behind the assassination of Anwar Sadat.
Should they gain power in Egypt who knows what kind of hell may break loose. As has already been mentioned the Suez Canal is an extremely vital piece of land. With our present situation I highly doubt that we are in any position to move should the need arise to secure it.
DaBears_85
01-29-11, 00:14
Excuse my naivety, but is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' an actual entity or are we using that as a blanket term?
Didn't read the whole thread, just remembered seeing something about Egypt in an RSS feed yesterday from slashdot:
Egypt has shut off all Internet access. (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/01/28/0114217/Egypt-Shuts-Off-All-Internet-Access?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29)
The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in the 1920's by Hassan al Banna a school teacher. One of the more influential members was Sayyid Qutb. The writings of him and his brother were significant to Al-Qaeda and most of the Arab world. He was executed in Egypt in 1966 and essentially "martyred".
Excuse my naivety, but is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' an actual entity or are we using that as a blanket term?
GermanSynergy
01-29-11, 00:44
Having the Muslim Brotherhood run Egypt would be like handing Al Qaeda the keys to the presidential palace in Cairo. The consequences in the region and the world (Suez Canal) would be unimaginable.
Excuse my naivety, but is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' an actual entity or are we using that as a blanket term?
Magic_Salad0892
01-29-11, 02:18
Something tells me that we'd see war in Egypt if they took it over.
This doesn't look good. Then again, with the current administration that might not be a reality.
RogerinTPA
01-29-11, 09:44
Excuse my naivety, but is the 'Muslim Brotherhood' an actual entity or are we using that as a blanket term?
The Society of Muslim Brothers, which is the official name or Muslim Brotherhood or Muslin Brethren, is the oldest Muslim political entity (Party of the Muslim Brotherhood) in which some factions promote a nonviolent change, while others promote the overthrow of pro western governments by protest and violence. It has sanctioned Jihad against western invaders in Islamic countries and issued Fatwas. Not currently classified as a terrorist entity by the US, but does have it's fingers in the pie of many radical Islamic movements, most notably Iran's revolution and the ongoing Chechen war against the Russians. It has influenced many key radical Muslim figures around the globe.
Belmont31R
01-29-11, 11:02
AJ is saying protestors are starting to clash with the army and lots of looting. Also heard they are moving through/to the wealthy areas where the diplomatic compounds are. Museums have been torn apart.
Mubarak has appointed a guy named Sulemein (sp?) as vice president.
'But at least 45 people have died in clashes across Egypt since Friday, according to health officials.
The latest figures bring the death toll in the week's unrest to at least 52, with both protesters and police officers among the dead. About 2,000 people have been injured.
"Live bullets have been fired at protesters, aimed at their heads," Dr Yaser Sayyed at the Sayyed Galal Hospital in Cairo told BBC Arabic.
"We have seen more than 20 cases of headshots with the bullet wounds on the front of the head and exit wounds on the other side, skulls fractured... in addition to chest wounds."'
From a recently updated BBC article.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12316465
Radio reports say there is looting everywhere. What to do with looters?
What to do with looters?
Nothing.
It would be best if police/military blocked off businesses from human traffic.
Harm brought onto the looters by police/military will enrage the population even further. Reports say there has been a number of people killed already. No need to add fuel to the fire.
Knowing these ME countries, that will not be the course of action. Barbarism is the name of the game. Just look at their human rights records. ME countries are the world champions of torture and misery.
Belmont31R
01-29-11, 23:23
Nothing.
It would be best if police/military blocked off businesses from human traffic.
Harm brought onto the looters by police/military will enrage the population even further. Reports say there has been a number of people killed already. No need to add fuel to the fire.
Knowing these ME countries, that will not be the course of action. Barbarism is the name of the game. Just look at their human rights records. ME countries are the world champions of torture and misery.
Ive been getting a different picture in that most of the people there are against the looting. They have been forming road blocks and expressing outrage at the looting of the museums and such. I doubt they would be upset at the army if they shot people running off with priceless artifacts.
Ive been out all day so Ive only caught a few news snippets here and there but the general consensus on arab TV is people are really upset at the looting.
Ive been getting a different picture in that most of the people there are against the looting. They have been forming road blocks and expressing outrage at the looting of the museums and such. I doubt they would be upset at the army if they shot people running off with priceless artifacts.
Ive been out all day so Ive only caught a few news snippets here and there but the general consensus on arab TV is people are really upset at the looting.
I'm trying to put into perspective the spin that may be put onto these incidents for whatever purpose.
There's some old school M60 tanks the Egyptian army has.
RancidSumo
01-30-11, 00:00
You know what I find disgusting? The people over at democratic underground cheering what is happening over there.
Thomas M-4
01-30-11, 00:29
There's some old school M60 tanks the Egyptian army has.
And M113A3's1.5billion in military aid:eek:
I must have forgot something, Mubarak is a prick who is pretty much a dictator and we're rooting for his sorry ass? Of course some Islamic fundamentalist asshole could take over (fat chance) But right now even with out this whole riot bs Egypt already provides plenty of shelter for terrorist assholes, and is a stopping ground for many heading to fight their "jihad".
Let the people of Egypt have their revolution, we had ours, let's just hope they come out better in the end for it. Almost 70,000,000 people are living in a shit hole, just perhaps they've decided they want a brighter future.
You know what I find disgusting? The people over at democratic underground cheering what is happening over there.
I disagree with mostly everything on the site (I know few here will believe that)
But if they're cheering for people rising up against an prick who likes to torture and kill his people, than I'm right there cheering as well.
Do you know what they're rioting about? They want to simply be some what free, you know - things like voting, freedom of press... shit like that with out fear of being murdered.
Magic_Salad0892
01-30-11, 06:47
What makes you think that would change if a Muslim government were in control?
variablebinary
01-30-11, 07:32
What makes you think that would change if a Muslim government were in control?
I think that's the point of concern for everyone.
Is what comes next worse than what preceded it for Egyptians and the USA?
It's going to be a little bit of time before we really know the ramifications of this. However, what Obama should not do is spectate like Carter did with the Shah.
If Egypt turns into another Islamic revolution, the entire region could be plunged into hostility and conflict between national armies, as it was before Anwar El Sadat
Spurholder
01-30-11, 08:09
Another update: looks like the "more militant" protesters are in the process of taking over. At least four jails were hit last night, and according to AP, "hundreds of Muslim militants" were freed, along with "thousands of other inmates."
BLUF: things have now officially gone to shit. :(
ForTehNguyen
01-30-11, 09:06
rising food prices there + high unemployment = people pissed off
VooDoo6Actual
01-30-11, 09:13
https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=10353
1/30/2011
The U.S. Department of State released the following Travel Warning on January 30, 2011:
The U.S. Department of State recommends that U.S. citizens avoid travel to Egypt due to ongoing political and social unrest. On January 30, the Department of State authorized the voluntary departure of dependents and non-emergency employees. Violent demonstrations have occurred in several areas of Cairo, Alexandria and other parts of the country, disrupting road travel between city centers and airports. Disruptions in communications, including internet service, may occur. The Government of Egypt has imposed a curfew from 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. in Cairo, Alexandria and Suez until further notice, and U.S. citizens should obey curfew orders and remain indoors during curfew hours. U.S. citizens currently in Egypt should consider leaving as soon as they can safely do so. Cairo airport is open and operating, but flights may be disrupted and transport to the airport may be disrupted due to the protests. Travelers should remain in contact with their airlines or tour operators concerning flight schedules, and arrange to arrive at the airport well before curfew hours.
In the event of demonstrations, U.S. citizens in Egypt should remain in their residences or hotels until the situation stabilizes. Security forces may block off the area around the U.S. Embassy during demonstrations, and U.S. citizens should not attempt to come to the U.S. Embassy or the Tahrir Square area at such times. The U. S. Embassy is open for emergency services for U.S. citizens only until further notice. As always, any change to Embassy hours will be posted on the Embassy website. U.S. citizens in Egypt who require assistance, or those who are concerned that their U.S. citizen loved one in Egypt may require assistance, should contact the U.S. Department of State and the U.S. Embassy in Cairo at EgyptEmergencyUSC@state.gov, or at 1-202-501-4444. Please follow the directions on the Embassy website for all other consular inquiries.
Demonstrations have degenerated on several occasions into violent clashes between police and protesters, resulting in injuries and extensive property damage. While demonstrations have not been directed toward Westerners, U.S. citizens are urged to remain alert to local security developments and to be vigilant regarding their personal security. The U.S. Department of State strongly urges U.S. citizens to avoid all demonstrations, as even peaceful ones can quickly become unruly and a foreigner could become a target of harassment or worse. If caught unexpectedly near a demonstration, U.S. citizens should obey instructions from police and leave the area as quickly as possible. U.S. citizens resident in Egypt should monitor local news broadcasts and U.S. citizen visitors should ask tour guides and hotel officials about any planned demonstrations in the locations they plan to visit. U.S. citizens should carry identification and a cell phone which works in Egypt.
U.S. citizens in Egypt are encouraged to enroll in the Smart Travelers Enrollment Program (STEP) at the following website: https://travelregistration.state.gov. U.S. citizens without internet access may enroll directly at the U.S. Embassy. By enrolling, U.S. citizens make it easier for the Embassy to contact them in case of emergency.
Updated information on travel and security in Egypt may be obtained from the Department of State by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll-free in the United States and Canada or, for callers outside the United States and Canada, on a regular toll line at 1-202-501-4444. For further information, please consult the Country Specific Information for Egypt, as well as the Worldwide Caution.
What makes you think that would change if a Muslim government were in control?
Who knows I can't forecast the future, but I know the current situation isn't exactly great.
Who was to say George Washington wouldn't just declare himself king and become another George III? And he could have easily done so.
I'm sure if the rioters overthrow the current government you'll have a power struggle, and hopefully it's not another dicktator ;)
And it's going to be a muslim who replaces mubarak he's a sunni himself. The country is a muslim country.
I wonder what the Israeli government thinks about this situation....
I wonder what the Israeli government thinks about this situation....
They don't like it. Reports I was reading in Israeli press is that they are starting to plan for a hostile Egypt and allocation of IDF. This is a big bummer to them as they had gotten used to not having to have a lot of IDF in the south and could position most of them in the Lebanon/Syria/Iran direction.
"...anyone in Egypt who has access to a analog phone line and can call France is able to connect to the network
using the following number: +33 1 72 89 01 50 (login: toto, password: toto). (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/01/29/0025210/Egypt-Cuts-the-Net-Net-Fights-Back?from=rss)"
Related news from China:
"China has blocked the word 'Egypt' from the country's wildly popular Twitter-like service" (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/01/29/2110227/China-Blocks-Egypt-On-Twitter-Like-Site?from=rss)
"China's ruling Communist Party is sensitive to any potential source of social unrest."
The Egyptian Military has brought in the big guns. M1's, F16's and HINDS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVU2OK7lEZI&feature=player_embedded#
Maybe I'm out in left field but what bothers me is the following. Tunisia has changed it Govt and the Muslim Brotherhood was involved. Now Egypt and Jordan is also feeling the heat. Muslim Brotherhood heavily involved in both places. Lebanons govt has crumbled because of Hezbollah pulling out and Hez has stated they want to take over the Govt completely. We are leaving Iraq and with Al Sadr back in Iraq, Iran could gain control of Iraq after we leave late this year. If all of that comes about Isreal will be completely surrounded, basically by the Iranians and thier cronies. You know Iran has to be sending thier agents into Egypt and also Jordan. They are already in control of Hezbollah. Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq and Syria completely ring Isreal. Isreal will have to come out fighting to protect itself. If this unrest hits Saudia Arabia all hell will break loose.
Suwannee Tim
01-30-11, 14:03
I hope the Egyptian regime learned something from the fall of the Shah of Iran.
I had no idea Egypt had M1 Abrams tanks. They have 1K of them, made locally under license.
I have to give my hats off to the Egyptian Army, they could have rolled in and crushed the revolt and killed thousands. They have shown great restraint and respect for the people. The people revere their military, they see it as defeating Israel and an institution free of corruption.
I did a few Bright Star's back in the 90's. The Egyptian military is a highly professional and competent force.
This does have the potential for getting ugly. What many of our politicians fail to realize is that the type of government we want these countries to have, isn't necessarily the kind they want.
In the history of the Middle East all of the countries were ruled by strong, iron fisted dictators. With the upsurge of radical Islam, some things have changed and some people want that type of government it power. Some may not even realize that they may be behind the unrest. Either way we need to be very concerned about this and I am sure that Israel is watching this VERY CLOSELY.
The problem here is that Egypt has a potent military with OUR hardware because they switched sides during the Cold War. Now they have the conventional army to really hurt Israel....and it's with our hardware. It would be American HW vs indigenous Israeli HW mixed in with our HW also. We have armed Iraq with our hardware also.....and all the other ME countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc......combined they can destroy Israel. It would be at our doing, due to our foreign policy.
Rmplstlskn
01-30-11, 16:12
I'm having trouble figuring out if it is moderates who want a "democracy" as I have seen several comment on Al Jazeera feed of the protest or the Muslim Brotherhood who is behind the scenes, as shown by those with Islamic symbolism upon them and the chants of allu akbar heard in background...
And is Baradai a moderate or a fundamentalist? Seems to be a moderate, even secular...
Rmpl
I have to give my hats off to the Egyptian Army, they could have rolled in and crushed the revolt and killed thousands. They have shown great restraint and respect for the people. The people revere their military
As I read this, I opened up that al jazeera live coverage site and reports stated gunfights between the military and civilians.
:suicide:
As I read this, I opened up that al jazeera live coverage site and reports stated gunfights between the military and civilians.
:suicide:
If civilians are shooting at soldiers they have the right to defend themselves. ROE.
If civilians are shooting at soldiers they have the right to defend themselves. ROE.
If soldiers are shooting at civilians they have the right to defend themselves. ROE.
If soldiers are shooting at civilians they have the right to defend themselves. ROE.
Can you cite specific examples. I think you are just speculating. Most gunbattles have been between the state police and the rioters. It's the state police who are the enemy in the eyes of the people. They have brought down the most repression.
I think you are just speculating
That's the whole point. We don't know for sure what's is going on, who is right in their actions, who is wrong, and so on.
I figure it isn't fair to give the Egyption military and/or security forces the benefit of the doubt, because the middle east has a hefty history of human rights violations.
FromMyColdDeadHand
01-30-11, 18:42
The problem here is that Egypt has a potent military with OUR hardware because they switched sides during the Cold War. Now they have the conventional army to really hurt Israel....and it's with our hardware. It would be American HW vs indigenous Israeli HW mixed in with our HW also. We have armed Iraq with our hardware also.....and all the other ME countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc......combined they can destroy Israel. It would be at our doing, due to our foreign policy.
Read "Carnage and Culture" by Hanson. I think you could give the Israeli's Soviet gear and the latest gear to the Arabs and it would still be a win for the Israelis.
It will be very interesting to see what kind of govt comes out of this Egyptian mess, and who is really behind it.
RogerinTPA
01-30-11, 19:16
I for one am glad to see this uprising as anti-regime and not anti-American or pro Islamic fanaticism. They have a fairly large demographic under the age of 30, much like Iran. I see this youth uprising in the same light. Egyptians are moderate and I see this uprising to promote a more democratic country, starting with the removal of Mubarak and truly free elections. The Muslim Brotherhood does have some influence, with the release of hard core extremist to agitate the rallies, but presently have very little support since they only got 20% of the vote in the last election. Time will tell, but the Egyptians, with the sympathetic support of the Army, will most likely not go in that direction since that will only foster more crack downs and removal of more personal freedoms under an extremist government, than has existed for the past 30 years under the present one. Now if they can just pull it off and get a pro democratic transitional government, until the elections...
Cagemonkey
01-30-11, 19:31
I for one am glad to see this uprising as anti-regime and not anti-American or pro Islamic fanaticism. They have a fairly large demographic under the age of 30, much like Iran. I see this youth uprising in the same light. Egyptians are moderate and I see this uprising to promote a more democratic country, starting with the removal of Mubarak and truly free elections. The Muslim Brotherhood does have some influence, with the release of hard core extremist to agitate the rallies, but presently have very little support since they only got 20% of the vote in the last election. Time will tell, but the Egyptians, with the sympathetic support of the Army, will most likely not go in that direction since that will only foster more crack downs and removal of more personal freedoms under an extremist government, than has existed for the past 30 years under the present one. Now if they can just pull it off and get a pro democratic transitional government, until the elections...The U.S. has been trading our Democratic principles for short term stability with Mid Eastern Dictators for too long.
rising food prices there + high unemployment = people pissed off
Sounds like here.
I heard an annoying liberal reporter on NPR asking some politician (not sure who), "Shouldn't an increase in government revenues be part of the solution?" The left just does not get it. Our absurd tax rates and absurd tax system have driven our best employers off the continent already.
I have to give my hats off to the Egyptian Army, they could have rolled in and crushed the revolt and killed thousands. .
The press is giving Hilary Clinton credit for that. :fie:
GermanSynergy
01-30-11, 21:44
You do understand that this populist uprising has a very good chance of be co-opted by the Muslim Brotherhood, right?
If there are free and democratic elections in Egypt, there's a very good chance the Muslim Brotherhood will win, and then what? They'd have command over the Egyptian military, which would be in a position to attack Israel, leading to a massive war in the Middle East.
There's also the small matter of the Suez Canal, and what would happen to the price of oil / refined fuels as a result of an Islamist regime having control of the canal?
If soldiers are shooting at civilians they have the right to defend themselves. ROE.
RancidSumo
01-30-11, 22:12
I disagree with mostly everything on the site (I know few here will believe that)
But if they're cheering for people rising up against an prick who likes to torture and kill his people, than I'm right there cheering as well.
Do you know what they're rioting about? They want to simply be some what free, you know - things like voting, freedom of press... shit like that with out fear of being murdered.
I don't have a problem with a popular revolt to end an oppressive government but looting museums and stealing/killing innocent people isn't the way to do that and anyone who tries that tactic, does not have my support.
I don't have a problem with a popular revolt to end an oppressive government but looting museums and stealing/killing innocent people isn't the way to do that and anyone who tries that tactic, does not have my support.
You're getting all your information from the current government in power, theirs a black out of information. From independent reports that people have been able to get out, much of the looting etc are over exaggerated - well accept the military shooting and killing people, but that's not really new. Egypt is notorious for torture and killing it's people.
What many of our politicians fail to realize is that the type of government we want these countries to have, isn't necessarily the kind they want.
If our government, and a lot of U.S. citizens, adopted that way of thinking we'd stay out of a lot of conflicts around the world.
Al Jazeera interviews one of the escaped prisoners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR1zcYmaI8c&feature=player_embedded
You're getting all your information from the current government in power, theirs a black out of information. From independent reports that people have been able to get out, much of the looting etc are over exaggerated - well accept the military shooting and killing people, but that's not really new. Egypt is notorious for torture and killing it's people.
The reports I have heard (from man on the street reporting) is that the military is being well behaved and the protesters generally have a good view of the military. It is the police that are hated and thought ill of.
The man on the street reporting showed numerous tanks just sitting there, people chatting with soldiers, etc.
The reports I have heard (from man on the street reporting) is that the military is being well behaved and the protesters generally have a good view of the military. It is the police that are hated and thought ill of.
The man on the street reporting showed numerous tanks just sitting there, people chatting with soldiers, etc.
Look up ثورة الغضب المصرية online. Pretty much what they're calling the protest in the arab world. So you should find some cell videos etc related.
The fact of the matter is that we are at war with Islam. A lot of people don't like that reality but there it is. The fundamentals of violence never change. If some guy wants to fight you and starts slapping you around, you are in fact in a fight whether you want to fight or not. That is where we are with Islam. Many people don't want to believe this but tell this to the Islamists who believe it with every fiber of their being.
The 'good' Muslims sit silently because (1) it is Haram (illegal, forbidden, un-Islamic) to speak out against another Muslim to the non-believer, and (2) because they are scared they will be killed by the radicals. So, they end up going along and just try to keep a low profile.
I say, 'good' let all of the region fall to the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood. Perhaps then we can stop pretending what the real situation is.
I don't have a problem with a popular revolt to end an oppressive government but looting museums and stealing/killing innocent people isn't the way to do that and anyone who tries that tactic, does not have my support.
And where exactly have you found reports that those people that are looting are affiliated with the protests themselves?
Have you ever heard of the word "opportunity"?
For the fear mongers:
Is there a chance that this social movement could be co-opted by the muslim brotherhood? I guess there may be. Every report I am reading suggests that they don't hold a Majority (that is a critical word in a Democracy) in this country, and that the people are more interested in having democratic rights, as opposed to an Islamo fascist state.
I'm not saying we shouldn't watch closely what is going on in Egypt, but to assume that just because their is a politically active party in the country that doesn't jive with our interests doesn't mean we need to start crying foul! If we want democracy to spread around the world, we may have to stomach the simple reality that not every country is going to make majority decisions that fall lock step with American interests.
If our government, and a lot of U.S. citizens, adopted that way of thinking we'd stay out of a lot of conflicts around the world.
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Yes we would, and we would probably not be in the poor economic shape we are in right now if we had!
I have not had time to look into the citizen cell phone stuff, (and this is not what I was referring to as a post in a previous reply), but here is an article
Egypt's military shows its strength, not its hand
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/30/AR2011013004056.html
And where exactly have you found reports that those people that are looting are affiliated with the protests themselves?
Have you ever heard of the word "opportunity"?
Some reports have the police (who have basically disappeared) doing looting. "Vigilante" citizens with Army help have been going after looters, supposedly, and found police IDs on some looters.
Conspiracy theorists say it is so that there are grounds for the interior ministry to crack down.
Conspiracy theorists say it is so that there are grounds for the interior ministry to crack down.
I don't think that you fill find this reality actually fitting into the word "conspiracy". In fact it was a very real tactic by the FBI in the sixties, and it has been used for hundreds of years as a way to spread disinformation regarding social movements and uprisings. I'm not at all saying that what is going on in Egypt regarding the looting is completely orchestrated by the police, but governments do use agitators to stir up action, and discredit movements. Mobs are not hard thinks to start when emotions are high.
I don't think that you fill find this reality actually fitting into the word "conspiracy". In fact it was a very real tactic by the FBI in the sixties, and it has been used for hundreds of years as a way to spread disinformation regarding social movements and uprisings. I'm not at all saying that what is going on in Egypt regarding the looting is completely orchestrated by the police, but governments do use agitators to stir up action, and discredit movements. Mobs are not hard thinks to start when emotions are high.
Conspiracy doesn't mean it isn't real.
Some reports have the police (who have basically disappeared) doing looting.
It happens here too, just look at New Orleans.
ForTehNguyen
01-31-11, 18:14
Sounds like here.
I heard an annoying liberal reporter on NPR asking some politician (not sure who), "Shouldn't an increase in government revenues be part of the solution?" The left just does not get it. Our absurd tax rates and absurd tax system have driven our best employers off the continent already.
Egyptian currency is pegged to the dollar, guess what happened to the dollar supply in the past 2 years. Can imagine what this does to a country with 30% unemployment
Magic_Salad0892
02-01-11, 03:35
My honest biggest fear is that an American gets shot or puts a round in a looter near the embassy in Egypt.
Imagine the shitstorm that would follow if an American put a bullet in somebody who just happened to be of Islamic background. We'd be in another war.
King Abdullah of Jordan has just dissolved his Govt. because of protests. So far Tunisia, Egypt and now Jordan have either dissolved thier Govts or had large turnovers. All 3 are US allies. I wonder who's next!?
Spurholder
02-01-11, 08:39
You do understand that this populist uprising has a very good chance of be co-opted by the Muslim Brotherhood, right?
If there are free and democratic elections in Egypt, there's a very good chance the Muslim Brotherhood will win, and then what? They'd have command over the Egyptian military, which would be in a position to attack Israel, leading to a massive war in the Middle East.
There's also the small matter of the Suez Canal, and what would happen to the price of oil / refined fuels as a result of an Islamist regime having control of the canal?
Spot on.
MB is the only organized piece of the equation. Guess who's going to come out on top when all the smoke clears? Followed by the well-known "first thing you do after the revolution."
Fire up the Wayback Machine, Mr. Peabody - Khomeini's party carried 98% of the vote in the first election after the Shah was booted, FWIW.
Here's a decent article on second order effects - from The Daily Beast, of all places (and many of the articles posted there in the last few days seem to actually get it):
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-01-31/obamas-dangerous-game-in-egypt/
Belmont31R
02-01-11, 08:49
U.S. President Barack Obama met with members of Egypt's Islamist opposition movement, the Muslim Brotherhood, earlier this year, according to a report in Thursday editions of the Egyptian daily newspaper Almasry Alyoum.
The newspaper reported that Obama met the group's members, who reside in the U.S. and Europe, in Washington two months ago.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/obama-met-muslim-brotherhood-members-in-u-s-1.277306
Check out the date...
History repeats itself.
In a further sign that the Obama administration is preparing to abandon and betray Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, it develops that the U.S. President recently met in Washington with members of the Muslim Brotherhood. Click here for the story.
http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/2009/06/obama-overtures-to-muslim-brotherhood.html
At least ten MB members – including Mohammed Saad el-Katatni, the head of MB's parliamentary bloc – were invited to attend the speech at Cairo University. The Obama administration claims that invitations were sent out exclusively by Egypt's Cairo and Al-Azhar Universities. However according to the Middle East Media Research Institute, the Egyptian daily Al-Masyroon reported that the invitations were “extended at the request of U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Margaret Scobey.”
http://www.analyst-network.com/article.php?art_id=2972
GermanSynergy
02-01-11, 08:59
Maybe Iraq will elect Sadr is President?
King Abdullah of Jordan has just dissolved his Govt. because of protests. So far Tunisia, Egypt and now Jordan have either dissolved thier Govts or had large turnovers. All 3 are US allies. I wonder who's next!?
We might be headed towards another ME regional war and Iraqi war 3.
GermanSynergy
02-01-11, 09:07
Yup. I fear for Israel at this point if the MB takes power in Egypt.
We might be headed towards another ME regional war and Iraqi war 3.
I just posted this as part of a series in my latest "top or interesting" articles thread, but it is probably better off here:
Egypt protests show George W. Bush was right about freedom in the Arab world
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/28/AR2011012803144.html
montanadave
02-01-11, 11:51
While I do not wish to minimize the significance of the political events unfolding in Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan and elsewhere in the Arab world, I am nauseated by the ghouls of the cable news networks salivating over the potential of a bloodbath and the accompanying opportunities to exploit such a tragedy.
You can almost hear the disappointment in the news anchor's voices when they air another "bulletin" from their reporter on the scene who reports that the streets are relatively calm, the crowds seem peaceful, the army remains on the sidelines, and the streets aren't in flames.
Reminds me of the Eagle's song Dirty Laundry. God forbid there should be a peaceful resolution to the current situation. It seems no one is going to be satisfied until the whole ****in' planet is on fire.
I'm gonna go read a book and let Billy Joel add another couple of verses to We Didn't Start the Fire.
Belmont31R
02-02-11, 16:14
For anyone not paying attention today...today has turned pretty bad. Not seen before "pro-Mubarak" people have been clashing with "anti-Mubarak" protesters. Lots of clamor about the P-M being agents of the state security looking to just cause problems. They formed skirmish lines and have been battling for hours now in the main square.
Lots of rock throwing at each other, molotov cocktails, people charging crowds on horses and even a camel, and its just basically turned nasty since even yesterday. The Cairo Museum briefly caught fire, too. Thats where all the cool Tut shit is at that would never be replaced if lost.
Magic_Salad0892
02-02-11, 19:51
I cant open the link.
Why did the president meet with the Muslim Brotherhood?
FromMyColdDeadHand
02-02-11, 20:19
I cant open the link.
Why did the president meet with the Muslim Brotherhood?
A reunion.
;)
Magic_Salad0892
02-03-11, 02:50
A reunion.
;)
Lmao. :haha::thank_you2:
That's exactly what I was thinking. Hence my earlier post.
Why did they actually meet?
People getting brutally ran over in Egypt.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3e7_1296734798
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a8f_1296761547
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=36e_1296759917
I think the Egyption people at this time should use force in order to get democracy. There's no other option.
People getting brutally ran over in Egypt.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3e7_1296734798
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a8f_1296761547
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=36e_1296759917
I think the Egyption people at this time should use force in order to get democracy. There's no other option.
1. I doubt that Hosni issued a memo to government employees to the effect that it would be cool to run over protestors.
2. I suspect that the crowds want an Islamic theocracy, not democracy.
3. I am not going to visit the pyramids.
Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak had resigned
Anybody's guess how this turns out.
variablebinary
02-11-11, 18:26
Anybody's guess how this turns out.
take a look at Iran
this whole deal has me scratching my head...at first the media was very negative on this and now it's like 'freedom' has won watching the news??
Why would oil prices be dropping with all the uncertainty this brings??
this is really weird...
RogerinTPA
02-11-11, 20:10
take a look at Iran
I hope not, but this happened awfully close the anniversary of the Iranian revolution, which happened a couple of days ago. There are opinions abound that the socialist, communist and the muslim brotherhood, joined in a concerted effort to planted the seeds to undermine and flip this government, years ago. Hopefully the army will hold it together until free elections can be held in the fall, then the chips will fall where they may. If the info is correct, some Islamic extremist figure head will surface in the next month or so, same as what happened in Iran with the Ayatollah back in the day. If not, then Egypt will get a break and a chance at true democracy. If they choose poorly, then they will be another extremist state.
I'm still banking on the moderate Egyptian people to take a break from being under the iron fist of one president, and enjoy their new freedoms, instead of ushering in a more iron fistted tyrannical extremist regime, ala Iran. It's good to hear the chants of "freedom" for the people today, while conversely, Iran's state sponsored rallies showing support for Egypt, were chanting "death to the America"
variablebinary
02-12-11, 13:07
I can give you good reason to be concerned...
All of the big city "intellectuals", "academics" and lefty turds on MSNBC are way too for the uprising and overthrow. That alone tells me this will not end well for the USA.
Also, Egypt has been a decent ally to the USA for a long time, and a source of stability in the middle east. If we come out against our allies, no one is going to want to get in bed with us.
Lastly, Islam and freedom don't mix. Call me a racist or whatever other bullshit, but where is there a free, democratic republic in the Islamic world. Sharia cannot occupy the same space as the concept of civil rights.
platoonDaddy
02-15-11, 17:38
Egypt Protesters Mocking oSama's "yes we can"
http://i933.photobucket.com/albums/ad176/slickville/EgyptProtersMockingOsamaInTheStreets.jpg
The only people Mubarak "oppressed" were al queda and the marxists.
He would take captured al queda on Egyptian warships and throw them over the side.
There is no "dictatorship" and the change of power will lead to another Iran.
All the marxists in the US want him gone. What does that tell you?
anybody seeing whats happening in Iran now?
woodandsteel
02-15-11, 18:40
anybody seeing whats happening in Iran now?
I see that the U.S. is giving a little more support to the Iranian Protestors, this time. And the Iranian Government is a little worried.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/02/15/iran.protests/index.html?hpt=Sbin
The only people Mubarak "oppressed" were al queda and the marxists.
He would take captured al queda on Egyptian warships and throw them over the side.
Damn! Someone should have told him that Achmedinajiad (sp?) is al qaeda.
variablebinary
02-15-11, 20:02
The only people Mubarak "oppressed" were al queda and the marxists.
He would take captured al queda on Egyptian warships and throw them over the side.
There is no "dictatorship" and the change of power will lead to another Iran.
All the marxists in the US want him gone. What does that tell you?
Yep. Mubarak kept the Islamic kooks on a short lease. They knew better than to screw around.
dookie1481
02-15-11, 20:56
Tangentially related: Niall Ferguson bitch-slaps State and the Obama administration's foreign policy on the Morning Joe.
EDIT: I guess the link might be helpful: http://freedomslighthouse.net/2011/02/15/morning-joe-crew-left-shell-shocked-by-professors-dismantling-of-obama-foreign-policy-on-egypt-video-21411/
John_Wayne777
02-15-11, 23:32
A repeat of the Iranian revolution is my greatest fear in all of this. We've had a problem with Islamist actors/regimes for almost half a century now...serious ones. We've spent the better part of 10 years trying to make a dent in the ability of Islamists to dictate terms to the civilized world.
A secular democracy dedicated to the preservation of individual rights, free enterprise, and free speech is probably what most of the protestors want, but the funny thing about revolutions is that you don't always get that outcome.
Did you guys hear about what happened to Lara Logan over there? ****ing savages!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-02-15-logan-egypt_N.htm
Did you guys hear about what happened to Lara Logan over there? ****ing savages!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-02-15-logan-egypt_N.htm
The same shit would happen in just about any mass crowd gathering in any country.
Kind of like going to a war zone and being surprised people are shooting at you.
So yeah screwed up, but she also shouldn't think her credentials as a journalist will protect her during what's pretty much a riot, any more than they would save her from a bullet fired in her direction.
variablebinary
02-16-11, 03:41
The same shit would happen in just about any mass crowd gathering in any country.
Kind of like going to a war zone and being surprised people are shooting at you.
So yeah screwed up, but she also shouldn't think her credentials as a journalist will protect her during what's pretty much a riot, any more than they would save her from a bullet fired in her direction.
While I am never in the "she was asking for it" camp, you have to use your freaking head in any situation.
In what is essentially anarchy in an Arabic Islamic nation, you probably don't want to be a blond female in the belly of the beast now do you.
Despite what American TV says, that "I am woman, here me roar" shit does not play out well in most of the world.
She is lucky her freaking head wasn't cut off.
Rmplstlskn
02-16-11, 08:12
BS! That would not have happened at a Tea Party protest, or a Glenn Beck rally, or some kind of Christian protest event...
The same shit would happen in just about any mass crowd gathering in any country.
That said, indeed a bunch of SAVAGE ANIMALS... PC be damned...
And SHE and her bosses should have known better than to send in a BLONDE white female into a lawless muslim mob in Cairo, Egypt... Security or not... It obviously got overwhelmed...
If she pushed to get her "career moment" in Cairo, then well, what can one say....
I think this Egypt power transistion will be PEACE & LOVE for while and will turn into islamic rise at the election...
Rmpl
BS! That would not have happened at a Tea Party protest, or a Glenn Beck rally, or some kind of Christian protest event...
It wouldn't happen at the DNC either. But I'm sure you know I'm talking about rowdy/rioting crowds. You just wanted to get your stab in :p
Because such shit has happened on many occasions in this country, at many different events when you have a large gathering of people, especially young men. People become animals when they find an excuse to do so, and crowds give them that excuse by making them believe their antonymous among the crowd.
It wouldn't happen at the DNC either. .
reminder: DNC convention 1968
The same shit would happen in just about any mass crowd gathering in any country.
Gang rape?
Are you ****ing kidding me?
Gang rape?
Are you ****ing kidding me?
Um yeah, it's happened many times. You think woman haven't been molested and raped during civil unrest in this country - are you ****ing kidding me?
reminder: DNC convention 1968
That wasn't the DNC protesting lol, that was political protest against the DNC. You had Johnson as president with the Vietnam war and social unrest do the civil rights movements.
And you guys bitch when people blame the right for others bs, yet you never fail at blaming the left for shit out of their control.
Gang rape?
Are you ****ing kidding me?
You obviously don't know much about this world. Shit happens in the US too.
RogerinTPA
02-16-11, 22:20
While I am never in the "she was asking for it" camp, you have to use your freaking head in any situation.
In what is essentially anarchy in an Arabic Islamic nation, you probably don't want to be a blond female in the belly of the beast now do you.
Despite what American TV says, that "I am woman, here me roar" shit does not play out well in most of the world.
She is lucky her freaking head wasn't cut off.
Agreed. Women don't have the respect of most male children in a large part of this planet.
"In Kazakhstan we say, God, man, horse, dog, then woman, then rat."
Um yeah, it's happened many times. You think woman haven't been molested and raped during civil unrest in this country - are you ****ing kidding me?
I'm sure anything I can dream up has happened at least once, but if you think gang rape is anything that happens commonly at political demonstrations in most parts of the world, I'll just have to disagree.
That said, I'm not at all sure she was actually raped as in penetration.
The only description of it I've read is "sexual assault," and she says she's eager to return to work. Somehow I think she'd be more traumatized had she actually been gang raped.
But no, I disagree with your assertion.
You obviously don't know much about this world. Shit happens in the US too.
At political demonstrations?
Can you document one?
If you're talking Tutsi/Hutu-type "politcal demonstrations," well, that's not quite what I was referring to.
At political demonstrations?
A frenzy mob, is a frenzy mob. It doesn't matter what their purpose of gathering is.
Can you document one?
There's plenty of cases of women being gangraped in the US.
montanadave
02-17-11, 00:13
Things almost got outa hand at CPAC. Fortunately, Ann Coulter was able to utilize her own unique self-defense skills:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8WQM-KVFwE
:thank_you2:
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
variablebinary
02-17-11, 01:12
You obviously don't know much about this world. Shit happens in the US too.
Name one instance where a reporter was raped in the USA during a political protest by a mob.
Can you?
Name one instance where a reporter was raped in the USA during a political protest by a mob.
I'm going to have to say that I can't.
But I'm not going to say that there has never been instances of gang rape in times of mass disorder in this country.
Name one instance where a reporter was raped in the USA during a political protest by a mob.
Can you?
LMAO! You guys who keep calling it a political protest sound like some douche on the TV, it was a revolution by definition, not a "political protest". With that people of all types from all walks of life will be involved.
And if we really want to discuss protest alone, we've had journalist attacked here at home during protest, and out neighbors to the north are currently dealing with a journalist who was allegedly molested by police during the G20 summit.
Any one recall the 99 Seattle WTO riots? Some real bad shit happened there.
So yeah shit happens when angry people gather in to crowds, let's not act as if our shit don't stink when it serves no purpose but to kid ourselves in to believing that some how Americans are incapable of such acts. Last time I checked a significant portion of our country glorifies such acts of violence.
Last time I checked a significant portion of our country glorifies such acts of violence.
Remind me again which portion of our country considers rape a crowd control tool?
Remind me again which portion of our country considers rape a crowd control tool?
LMAO, not sure what the **** rape as a form of crowd control has to do with the discussion, it's more about people trying to defend a murderous dictator by using some piece of shits who decided to take advantage of a situation and paint a broad stroke on an entire nation.
Last time I checked, the woman was actually rescued by military and other bystanders because they recognized it as immoral and a violation of her rights, something most of you guys are incapable of accepting some Muslims of being able to do. Instead you love to hate, even when unjustified, the same shit that people bitch about the other side of doing all the time. Well guess what you're all the same.
So stop making shit up, never was rape used as a form of crowd control.
Last time I checked a significant portion of our country glorifies such acts of violence.
Which portion?
Which portion?
Not a big movie fan? TV? You don't know woman actually want to be raped? I mean they'll resist but in the end they'll enjoy it. Just watch some quality cinema. It's been around since the old westerns.
And it's promoted more than ever through pop culture.
Here a five second search on youtube, perfect example how we see rape in this country and most of the world does. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPMD6KBlNoA
Pretty ****ed up but few people even notice this shit as ****ed up as it is, instead they see it as simple entrainment.
variablebinary
02-17-11, 05:21
Last time I checked, the woman was actually rescued by military and other bystanders because they recognized it as immoral and a violation of her rights, something most of you guys are incapable of accepting some Muslims of being able to do.
Actually the reason she was saved is because she was female, and it was Thursday, and crowed could not accept such evil. Had she been male and 12 it would have gotten real messy, insha'Allah
Actually the reason she was saved is because she was female, and it was Thursday. Had she been male and 12 it would have gotten real messy.
Thank God she wasn't an 8 year old boy and in the Vatican city on any day.
Really now.
Rmplstlskn
02-17-11, 08:00
So.... How's Egypt?
So.... How's Egypt?
Exactly my thoughts. You guys should chill out on the argument over rape & religion and focus on the thread topic before this gets closed.
Gutshot John
02-17-11, 11:03
While the woman was clearly victimized by a bunch of savages. (It's unclear whether the perpetrators were pro- or anti-government protestors, though the fact that it took a group of women to save her indicates that the anti-government male section might have played a role).
What's really disgusting is the number of people willing to perpetrate the stupidity that she bears some responsibility for even being there. While it doesn't necessarily surprise me that a mob can turn violent, the notion that she shouldn't even try to do her job because she is a woman is idiotic. This is especially disturbing when people in the media or academia, who won't let anything interfere with the cheerleading of the "democracy movement" rain on their parade.
An NYU professor has been forced to resign over comments he made on Twitter and other similar comments by others is pretty revolting.
What's really disgusting is the number of people willing to perpetrate the stupidity that she bears some responsibility for even being there. While it doesn't necessarily surprise me that a mob can turn violent, the notion that she shouldn't even try to do her job because she is a woman is idiotic.
I understand your viewpoint and I'm sure most here would agree. However, the Middle East, Africa and many other places in the world do not view women in the same light that we do. Just because women in our country can burn bras, drive a car, wear what clothes they want, vote and bitch about not getting equal pay doesn't amount to shit in the rest of the world. That's not to say it's her fault but after spending a year in the M.E. myself I sure as shit wouldn't send a woman reporter there in turbulent times. On several occasions we had female military personnel have rocks thrown at them while shopping in town by themselves, or in groups, in Bahrain and Dubai which are considered to be progressive in that area.
Pushing our politics, democracy and the equalization of women in the Middle East is a waste of time, money and American lives. We're fighting thousands of years of tradition, religion and ways of life and expect that to change over night. The sad part is that the vast majority of people there don't want that change and prefer things the way they are. I say ****'em and let them live in the stone age, not our problem.
Gutshot John
02-17-11, 11:41
I understand your viewpoint and I'm sure most here would agree. However, the Middle East, Africa and many other places in the world do not view women in the same light that we do. Just because women in our country can burn bras, drive a car, wear what clothes they want, vote and bitch about not getting equal pay doesn't amount to shit in the rest of the world. That's not to say it's her fault but after spending a year in the M.E. myself I sure as shit wouldn't send a woman reporter there in turbulent times. On several occasions we had female military personnel have rocks thrown at them while shopping in town by themselves, or in groups, in Bahrain and Dubai which are considered to be progressive in that area.
Pushing our politics, democracy and the equalization of women in the Middle East is a waste of time, money and American lives. We're fighting thousands of years of tradition, religion and ways of life and expect that to change over night. The sad part is that the vast majority of people there don't want that change and prefer things the way they are. I say ****'em and let them live in the stone age, not our problem.
The laws of hospitality are almost universal. In the muslim world they are almost sacred. No one pushed jacksquat onto the Egyptians. I've been to Egypt, with my sisters and mother, no one had to wear a hijab for fear of gang rape. That Egyptian women risked their own lives to save hers indicate this. That said this isn't about Egyptian culture, this is about American culture. We should freaking know better.
I have no patience for those that want to put even a shred of this on her. Journalism is a risky business and you have to accept a modicum of risk but that's not to say we or even they shouldn't be outraged by the reaction here...in the US...where the values you state are practiced and yet they seem to shrug their shoulders and say "meh, tough shit" at best and "she had it coming" at worst. These people disgust me even more.
What's really disgusting is the number of people willing to perpetrate the stupidity that she bears some responsibility for even being there. While it doesn't necessarily surprise me that a mob can turn violent, the notion that she shouldn't even try to do her job because she is a woman is idiotic. This is especially disturbing when people in the media or academia, who won't let anything interfere with the cheerleading of the "democracy movement" rain on their parade.
Why? She knew the risks involved. Isn't that what we do every time that we pick up a rifle or handgun? There are certainly risks, but we have to weigh them against the benefits. Her (very real) risk was the possibility of being killed. The benefit? Satiating the curiosity of American viewers during their 10PM news fix? That's a rather poor choice. It's not like she was reporting for American military intelligence or anything actually important.
Is it her fault that she was attacked? No, but she purposely allowed herself to be in the situation to be attacked. Therefore, I have little sympathy for her personally.
The only thing more disgusting than the fact that she was attacked is the fact that people are crying about it as if its some unfathomable tragedy. Egypt is not the US. It's not even a functioning country. It's currently a lawless piece of land whose government conceded to a revolution. She was absolutely and thoroughly stupid for going over there. A revolution fueled by Muslim men, many of who hate Americans and view American women as "whores." Well gee whiz, what did she think was going to happen?
How pious and conceited is a country, is a person, when they think they can stick their nose into the middle of another country's revolution and escape unscathed? This has stupidity through and through written all over it.
VooDoo6Actual
02-17-11, 16:08
Latest Egyptian HSLD Battle Helmuts
I'm speculating second pic is Baguette bread on sides w/ a Ham Salad on bread front
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/Classic3Bottleraghelmut.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/teehee321/TheBaguetteHamSaladRollHelmut.jpg
A frenzy mob, is a frenzy mob. It doesn't matter what their purpose of gathering is.
No, these were peaceful protestors, who want nothing more than democracy. Christiane Amanpour told me so.
There's plenty of cases of women being gangraped in the US.
No kidding?
Thank God she wasn't an 8 year old boy and in the Vatican city on any day.
Really now.
I know you probably think you're being clever, or even persuasive.
You're not.
Not a big movie fan? TV? You don't know woman actually want to be raped? I mean they'll resist but in the end they'll enjoy it. Just watch some quality cinema. It's been around since the old westerns.
And it's promoted more than ever through pop culture.
Here a five second search on youtube, perfect example how we see rape in this country and most of the world does. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPMD6KBlNoA
Pretty ****ed up but few people even notice this shit as ****ed up as it is, instead they see it as simple entrainment.
Let me guess, you took a "Misognystic Archetypes in Jingoistic Colonialist Cinema" class at community college?
Impressive.
Let me guess, you took a "Misognystic Archetypes in Jingoistic Colonialist Cinema" class at community college?
Impressive.
No but I did stay at a holiday inn one time.
And if you're going to talk shit, learn how to spell, it's misogynistic not "misognystic"
Smarty pants :p
No but I did stay at a holiday inn one time.
And if you're going to talk shit, learn how to spell, it's misogynistic not "misognystic"
Smarty pants :p
When I was in grad school, spelling conventions were just a way to use language to oppress the disadvantaged.
Just stickin it to the man!
skijunkie55
08-16-13, 10:12
My apologies for the necro-bump but is anyone else watching this mayhem? I haven't seen anything in GD...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7a_1376615614
media is too busy covering a lesbian cheerleader who needs to take a plea deal, the slap on the wrist the NSA may or may not receive for illegally spying, and steroid use for overpaid athletes...
So we cancelled training exercises with the military because "we don't condone the killing of civilians" but are still sending them $1.3 Billion in aid yearly.
Who are we assisting still and why?
POTUS and everyone in congress who authorized the continued providing of aid has blood has their hands on this one. Of course the ones rioting are brotherhood and Morsi supporters so naturally the admin is silent on this (read quietly supporting what is happening)... I mean the military takeover was/is automatic grounds for the aid to immediately stop and yea...
POTUS and everyone in congress who authorized the continued providing of aid has blood has their hands on this one. Of course the ones rioting are brotherhood and Morsi supporters so naturally the admin is silent on this..
Yep. Major blood on this administrations hands.
Does anyone still remotely believe we are trying to "stabalize" and bring "freedom" to the middle east still after all we have seen in the last decade?
It has become so obvious that we are playing chess in the region and destabalizing at any chance we can get.
Why are we spending billions of dollars in the region when we are so deep in the red we are all but bankrupt as a nation?
Yep. Major blood on this administrations hands.
Does anyone still remotely believe we are trying to "stabalize" and bring "freedom" to the middle east still after all we have seen in the last decade?
It has become so obvious that we are playing chess in the region and destabalizing at any chance we can get.
Why are we spending billions of dollars in the region when we are so deep in the red we are all but bankrupt as a nation?
I think the real question who stands to benefit the most from a destabilized middle east.
I think the real question who stands to benefit the most from a destabilized middle east.
The banks since they can fund all sides.
I think the real question who stands to benefit the most from a destabilized middle east.
The banks since they can fund all sides.
Ceaser25 beat me to it.
The banks, and the politicians/puppets that they parade around as PR agents are the only ones who win in all of this. Everyone else loses.
The charade is rather tiring, but until we have enough people who are done with paying for their own enslavement and stand up to these idiots with action- demanding this nonsense be halted; we will continue on this azimuth until the world is one big raging inferno.
polymorpheous
08-16-13, 11:56
I think the real question who stands to benefit the most from a destabilized middle east.
I think this whole "Arab Spring" is a move against Israel.
We are destabilizing the areas surrounding Israel.
To what end? Don't know.
But Obama has no love for Israel.
Found this on Liveleak.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7a_1376615614
skijunkie55
08-16-13, 12:33
Found this on Liveleak.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a7a_1376615614
See 7 posts up ^^^
:D
montanadave
08-16-13, 12:49
OK, I'm gonna sound like a completely callous sonofabitch, but I frankly don't give a shit what these people do to one another. The world has been held hostage by the plight of the Palestinians, the Arab-Israeli standoff, and muslim terrorism my entire life (55 years). The last ten years were the straw that broke the camel's back.
Screw the middle east and screw the muslim world. The best thing that can happen for the West is for all these bastards to annihilate one another.
I'm so sick of this shit I could puke. Enough already.
I am well aware that there are millions of innocent people within the muslim world that are good, caring, loving people. They do not deserve the horror of this strife and violence. But if it's ever going to end, it will be because those very people stood up, rejected the endless carnage, and renounced the political and religious leaders that foment nothing but hatred and violence towards seemingly everybody and anybody. Stability and peace will never be imposed by any external power. It must arise internally.
OK, I'm gonna sound like a completely callous sonofabitch, but I frankly don't give a shit what these people do to one another. The world has been held hostage by the plight of the Palestinians, the Arab-Israeli standoff, and muslim terrorism my entire life (55 years). The last ten years were the straw that broke the camel's back.
Screw the middle east and screw the muslim world. The best thing that can happen for the West is for all these bastards to annihilate one another.
I'm so sick of this shit I could puke. Enough already.
I am well aware that there are millions of innocent people within the muslim world that are good, caring, loving people. They do not deserve the horror of this strife and violence. But if it's ever going to end, it will be because those very people stood up, rejected the endless carnage, and renounced the political and religious leaders that foment nothing but hatred and violence towards seemingly everybody and anybody. Stability and peace will never be imposed by any external power. It must arise internally.
You better start planning to live your life without access to oil and any product derived from oil.... in case you get your wish. Even a short-term cutoff or massive price hike of oil is going to be worse for the economy than a coast-to-coast earthquake. If only we could ignore it all and let everything just fall apart.
Think of the great French famine, only not just a famine of oil but every thing that comes from it. Think of the massive problems a shortage of fuel to operate farm equipment would cause.
montanadave
08-16-13, 13:57
You better start planning to live your life without access to oil and any product derived from oil.... in case you get your wish. Even a short-term cutoff or massive price hike of oil is going to be worse for the economy than a coast-to-coast earthquake. If only we could ignore it all and let everything just fall apart.
And where would we be today, energy-wise, had we spent the trillions of dollars we have squandered in these shit holes over the past half-century on developing and improving our own domestic energy sources while implementing manufacturing and construction processes designed to improve efficiency and energy conservation?
Besides, what are these assholes going to do with their oil? Eat it?
Let China worry about the Persian Gulf. They're the ones who need the oil. Yeah, yeah, yeah -- "It's a global market." I get it. But China has a far greater incentive to insure their supply of oil from the Middle East is maintained then we do, as it accounts for a much higher percentage of their supply. And they have over a billion people that are just starting to get a taste of life in the industrialized first-world and I don't think they have much interest in going back to the plow.
Apricotshot
08-16-13, 14:12
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised
US Oil imports only 12.9% from Mid-East
It is not a question of opportunity cost. I totally understand that analysis.
It is a consideration of what are the ripple effects f that area of the world goes medieval and we all suddenly have to find our inner-Amish or starve to death.
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised
US Oil imports only 12.9% from Mid-East
Let's imagine that 6% of the worlds oil production is eliminated and see how much fun that is. You saying it isn't going to be economically painful? Screwing with 6% of the global flow would have huge ramifications.
The national debt would suddenly be the least of our short-term problems.
When do you think we're going to stop sending them BILLIONS in aid, when we don't have billions to give????????
Personally I don't give two shits if the whole region burns to the ground, its their problem not ours.
Maybe if we'd stop funding and supplying Al-cia-eda the region would stabilize.
Alpha Sierra
08-17-13, 08:26
Personally I don't give two shits if the whole region burns to the ground, its their problem not ours.
I second the motion
Alpha Sierra
08-17-13, 08:31
You better start planning to live your life without access to oil and any product derived from oil.... in case you get your wish. Even a short-term cutoff or massive price hike of oil is going to be worse for the economy than a coast-to-coast earthquake. If only we could ignore it all and let everything just fall apart.
Think of the great French famine, only not just a famine of oil but every thing that comes from it. Think of the massive problems a shortage of fuel to operate farm equipment would cause.
We have enough oil to be self sufficient. In case of a middle east disruption, I favor legislation to shut down the export of US oil as a national security measure and place tight controls on its open market trade.
Once that is done it is stupid easy for the US, Canada, and Russia to live off their own oil and natural gas supplies.
The rest of the world can descend into war for all I care. We still have the US Navy and the US Strategic Forces to lay down a world of hurt on anyone who would dare **** with us.
Interesting..
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130817/DA87NOM81.html
CAIRO (AP) - Egyptian authorities are considering disbanding the Muslim Brotherhood group, a government spokesman said Saturday, once again outlawing a group that held the pinnacle of government power just more than a month earlier.
The announcement comes after security forces broke up two sit-in protests this week by those calling for the reinstatement of President Mohammed Morsi, a Brotherhood leader deposed in a July 3 coup. The clashes killed more than 600 people that day and sparked protests and violence that killed 173 people Friday alone.
Cabinet spokesman Sherif Shawki said that Prime Minister Hazem el-Beblawi, who leads the military-backed government, assigned the Ministry of Social Solidarity to study the legal possibilities of dissolving the group. He didn't elaborate.
The Muslim Brotherhood group, founded in 1928, came to power a year ago when its Morsi was elected in the country's first free presidential elections. The election came after the overthrow of autocrat Hosni Mubarak in a popular uprising in 2011.
Alpha Sierra
08-17-13, 12:04
Muslims are utterly incapable of accepting a pluralistic society based on the universal freedoms that the Christian/secular west has accepted as unquestionable long ago.
Being a muslim is incompatible with living in a free society. The day muslims form a political majority in the US is the day that sharia law gets imposed one way or another.
We have enough oil to be self sufficient. In case of a middle east disruption, I favor legislation to shut down the export of US oil as a national security measure and place tight controls on its open market trade.
Once that is done it is stupid easy for the US, Canada, and Russia to live off their own oil and natural gas supplies.
The rest of the world can descend into war for all I care. We still have the US Navy and the US Strategic Forces to lay down a world of hurt on anyone who would dare **** with us.
This. The hippies can leave if they don't like it here, we're drilling here and not exporting any refined gasoline either. Shrink the Army, expand the Navy/Marines.
Problem is, the global oil corporations wouldn't like that and their bought and paid for politicians won't allow it.
Interesting..
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130817/DA87NOM81.html
Ya know, I'm kinda torn on this. I know it's kinda dictator-ish to "outlaw" a political group right after what has been for all intents and purposes a coup, BUT.........it's actually kind of refreshing to see the military remaining secular during it's ballsy stand in such a large [Muslim] country and rejecting extremism. Kinda root for them to get rid of the MB.
Egypt is the definition of voter remorse. The MB started down it's own dictatorial path rather quickly and began to do things that the voters didn't expect and was hardly in lines with a "democracy" (Middle Eastern-wise of course).
Gee, I dunno, sounds like somewhere else I know........:rolleyes:
Screw the Muslim Brotherhood and all radical Islamist groups. Good for the Egyptian military.
Mauser KAR98K
08-18-13, 01:27
I can only think of what the Mad King said before Lanaster offed him:
"...Burn them all."
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-18-13, 02:53
I know it is a gun forum, but a complete lack of understanding of world trade and its impact on our economy is not acceptable.
Smoot–Hawley Tariff. Anyone? Anyone?
You kill global trade and you kill off the modern economy, like quickly. While everyone likes to talk about our imports, we are still the worlds second largest exporter. That means jobs, lots of jobs. Like my job. I work for a mid sized company and we kick ass on a global scale in our market.
Stop the fantasies about Fortress US and how we don't need the rest of the world. It's about as viable as people who think they and their wife can hold down their 40 acre farm in an EOTWAWKI. It's a fantasy.
The Egyptian military- Israel's best friend in the middle east...
I know it is a gun forum, but a complete lack of understanding of world trade and its impact on our economy is not acceptable....
How about a complete lack of understanding in common sense?
How much sense does it make for us to fund the very people that we have been fighting for the past 12yrs? How much sense does it make to send billions upon billions of worthless federal reserve notes overseas when we're only devaluing the currency by doing so....since we print 80 billion a month.....
The answer is, it does not make sense.
We worry about funding all of these radical "rebels" when in the mean time we cant even take care of US. Why? Because the military industrial complex needs continuous war to keep the gravy train rolling. The easiest way to achieve that is to make your own enemy. For us its radical Islamic's. We fund their operations, supply them with arms, ect, ect.
The CIA has been doing a good job at stoking the fire over there for the past 60yrs, and now that its blazing its only going to get worse. The military industrial complex runs our foreign policy and runs Al-cia-eda Hell we're not even hiding it now......people are too ****ing stupid to understand it anyway.....or too busy watching "Doosh Dynasty".
These are the rebels our tax money is funding. This is who we are openly supporting and supplying arms to.....
http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/13/syrian-rebel-leader-eats-heart-of-enemy-soldier-on-camera-video/
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-18-13, 09:22
If the federal reserve notes are worthless, what are you worried about?
VooDoo6Actual
08-18-13, 10:32
Best Ever Proof of Crisis Actors in Egypt & Syria!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpmFIWm1dWw#at=23
Here's a dousey: Muslim protester, meet small arms fire.... Epic fail....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK1fP-n9qtc
Cemetery's are full of Stupid & Brave men, which one are you willing to die for ?
Since the current Global azimuth & trajectory has gotten to be Reductio ad absurdum look for the internet to be deliberately choked off soon....
I can remember having the most ridiculous discussion here w/ a FED LEO who claimed Fukishima was under control. Now look at it's status. Some people here should be ashamed.
Fukushima 2013: “Remaining Radioactive Mass”, “Dangerous Leaking Radioactive Water”, All Four Reactors are “Getting Worse”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/fukushima-2013-remaining-radioactive-mass-dangerous-leaking-radioactive-water-all-four-reactors-are-getting-worse/5342466
Reductio ad absurdum
I like the fakers video (first one), but what about the 2nd one? Are you implying that his own people shot him?
Looks like they guys want to be martyrs...and the Military used quite a bit of restraint letting him get that close. But a rubber bullet would have been better than real one. The military is being made to look heavy-handed, when many other resources say they are showing a lot of restraint but being provoked. Right now the press is falling against the military.
I like the fakers video (first one), but what about the 2nd one? Are you implying that his own people shot him?
Looks like they guys want to be martyrs...and the Military used quite a bit of restraint letting him get that close. But a rubber bullet would have been better than real one. The military is being made to look heavy-handed, when many other resources say they are showing a lot of restraint but being provoked. Right now the press is falling against the military.
Dude please don't fall for this. The same fool with the fakers video has another claiming the recent Asiana crash was faked as well: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bJY0YVrsm84&feature=related
A total joke and I'm pissed I was stupid enough to have wasted the minute I did watching that garbage.
montanadave
08-18-13, 13:44
Dude please don't fall for this. The same fool with the fakers video has another claiming the recent Asiana crash was faked as well: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bJY0YVrsm84&feature=related
A total joke and I'm pissed I was stupid enough to have wasted the minute I did watching that garbage.
The Asiana Flight 214 clip is no doubt some conspiracy fantasy but the window count discrepancy is weird. Google "Asiana Flight 214 rescue" and check the images. The ones he uses in his YouTube clip are all from CNN's website. And two of them definitely show what he's talking about. However, there is a third image (pre-fire) which clearly shows the outline of the "missing" pre-fire window although it is covered or blocked with some material closely matching the exterior of the aircraft. Might have been a blind or window film that burned off in the fire, but there was obviously something there.
Any aircraft guys care to hazard a guess?
The Asiana Flight 214 clip is no doubt some conspiracy fantasy but the window count discrepancy is weird. Google "Asiana Flight 214 rescue" and check the images. The ones he uses in his YouTube clip are all from CNN's website. And two of them definitely show what he's talking about. However, there is a third image (pre-fire) which clearly shows the outline of the "missing" pre-fire window although it is covered or blocked with some material closely matching the exterior of the aircraft. Might have been a blind or window film that burned off in the fire, but there was obviously something there.
Any aircraft guys care to hazard a guess?
I reviewed the google photos and as stated only those from the very initial stage of burning show what appears to be no window over the AS, which leads me to believe that was a designated window that was sealed or closed for any number of design reasons, then the cover dislodged after the crash and then fire.
And the very implication that all the explosions and devastation in Syria is faked does little to explain the floods of desperate refugees in Turkey. Again, a joke and I ain't wasting another moment commenting on it.
Of course, I don't believe it's all faked, but I believe a lot of stuff is 'staged' to give the press something to show.
If the federal reserve notes are worthless, what are you worried about?
Very poor attempt at deflecting the discussion.
Fact is we're not only supporting the radicals openly, we're funding them openly. These rebels fly the Al-cia-eda flag openly, they're killing Christians, jews, ect. They are the epitome of radical Islam, you know the same religion/group that everyone here proclaims to hate with all their heart. But those same folks probably see no fault in our support of the lowly "rebels".
(and if you knew anything about inflation, you would know in comparison to the value of the dollar say...50yrs ago, it is pretty much worthless)
skijunkie55
08-19-13, 18:06
Since when has our aid been going to the Muslim Brotherhood?
Since when has our aid been going to the Muslim Brotherhood?
Since the party and Morsi came to power in 2012.
skijunkie55
08-20-13, 08:32
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/20/egypt-us-military-aid/2675499/
CAIRO — U.S. military aid to Egypt has been temporarily cut off, reports said, as Egyptian authorities continued a swelling crackdown on the group that previously ran Egypt.
The U.S. has not stated publicly that a July 3 military takeover in Egypt was a coup, but the government decided privately to act as if it was, temporarily suspending most forms of military aid, the office of Sen. Patrick Leahy told The Daily Beast.
That suspension includes most direct military aid, the delivery of weapons to the Egyptian military and some forms of economic aid to Egypt, according to The Daily Beast.
Separately, a spokesman for Leahy, who is the head of the Appropriations State and Foreign Operations Subcommittee, told CNN that the U.S. is "reprogramming" funds while a review is underway, which effectively holds up some military aid to the country.
No decision, however, has been made to permanently halt the aid, which totals about $1.5 billion annually. The temporary steps allow the U.S. to either press ahead in delivering it or cutting it off after review, CNN said. The U.S., by law, cannot deliver aid to a nation where a coup has taken place.
Well, what we don't give them the Saudis are now going to pick up the tab...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323423804579020510228645356.html
In a comparatively rare public foreign-policy statement read Friday on Saudi television, King Abdullah declared that what was happening in Egypt was an Arab affair. "Let it be known to those who interfered in Egypt's internal affairs that they themselves are fanning the fire of sedition and are promoting the terrorism which they call for fighting," he declared, without mentioning any country by name. -- I couldn't agree more.
So why keep the aid cut-off under the radar?? Unless only save all the politicians who supported its continuation from having egg on their face...
Rand should be hammering on this going forward.
Well, what we don't give them the Saudis are now going to pick up the tab...
Then end all aid to the Saudis (which should've happened decades ago).
Due to the financial situation we ourselves are in, the United States of America should not be sending a PENNY overseas as "aid" money, or any other type of funding. We are BROKE. We can not afford to pay other countries money, just for being countries.
Facts are facts. We've been supporting the rebels in Libya, Syria, and Egypt. These "rebels" are Al-cia-eada.
Just look at Benghazi. That was a calculated fubar in order to cover up the arms they were funneling out of Benghazi. Guess where those arms were headed?????? Directly to radical muslims.
Don't kid yourself, those heat seeking missiles were not "lost"...lol
montanadave
08-20-13, 14:24
Bear in mind one thing when talking about U.S. foreign aid to many of these countries. It's a shell game. We "give" them the money and the lion's share of it comes right back when we allow them to purchase some shiny new fighter jets or tanks or [pick the major export of a defense contractor in your congressional district].
The majority of U.S. foreign aid is a thinly veiled government subsidy to American defense contractors using foreign governments as the beard.
FromMyColdDeadHand
08-20-13, 14:48
Bear in mind one thing when talking about U.S. foreign aid to many of these countries. It's a shell game. We "give" them the money and the lion's share of it comes right back when we allow them to purchase some shiny new fighter jets or tanks or [pick the major export of a defense contractor in your congressional district].
The majority of U.S. foreign aid is a thinly veiled government subsidy to American defense contractors using foreign governments as the beard.
This.
It looks like the military is playing the long game and is going to dismantle the Muslim Brotherhood. Decapitate the leadership, shoot supporters. I don't think there are any real "white turbans" over there, but I'd put backing behind the military before the Muslim Brotherhood.
It seems like Obama is still trying to back the Brothers. The Saudi's have to be wondering WTF we are thinking
Bear in mind one thing when talking about U.S. foreign aid to many of these countries. It's a shell game. We "give" them the money and the lion's share of it comes right back when we allow them to purchase some shiny new fighter jets or tanks or [pick the major export of a defense contractor in your congressional district].
The majority of U.S. foreign aid is a thinly veiled government subsidy to American defense contractors using foreign governments as the beard.
Exactly. This ties in to what I stated earlier. The military industrial complex runs our foreign policies. WE pay for it, THEY reap the financial benefits.....
But most people still see it as "us vs. the muslims" LOL. When in reality its a canned conflict. We are funding the opposition so there's an opposition to fight.
They are doing the SAME DAMN THING AT HOME. They criminalize street drugs, but supply the cartels with weapons, and launder money from them. They are making $$$$$$ on both ends. Funding to fight the war on drugs and kickback money from the cartels........too bad all that $$$$$$ is going to a select few.
skijunkie55
08-20-13, 16:04
Then end all aid to the Saudis (which should've happened decades ago).
We have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid
They have been giving the US foreign aid money...
We currently owe Oil Exporting Countries $179 Billion...
The amount held by the Saudis has never been released (at least what I can find on google)
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