View Full Version : any reason to buy a .40 or .45 over another 9mm?
Just want to get some opinions on this.
I currently have a Gen4 19 and love it but I'm very close to buying another pistol.
Now just for therecord over the years I've owned hk, sig, glock, kimber,s&w.
However this was before I knew my ass from a hole in the ground as
far as defensive handguns go and have stuck with gen3 glocks for a while,and most recently the gen4 19.
But of course this disease that is gun buying never goes into remission,
would there be any practical reason to buy say an m&p 45c or gen4 23 over another glock 19 other than I want one?
I mean obviously the ammo would be more expensive but barring that is there any practicality?
or am I simply over thinking this?
I would probably go with either a glock 23 if you want a .40 but I would purchase a glock 30 for a .45 since you can get hi-cap mags as backup and you can stick with the glock platform. I personnally like the .40, all he power of the .45 but with the 9mm platform and magazine capacity.
If you absolutely positively have to spend money on a new handgun instead of ammo or good quality training, then be SMART and get another G19, as previously discussed in other threads regarding this same topic...
D.S. Brown
02-01-11, 21:57
I use and like .40's. I have 6 of them, all Glock, 4 G23's a G27, and a G35.
If I were you I'd either get another Gen 4 G19, or a Gen 4 G26 as back up. You'd have a great weapon system.
BTW money spent on training is never wasted.
Best,
Dave
any reason to buy a .40 or .45 over another 9mm
Not really. Spend your money on ammo and training.
I will reiterate what has been stated. Unless you're independently wealthy or something, your hard earned cash will do you our good spent on ammo and good training. After that get a 22 conversion kit for it so you can shoot the crap out of it with cheap ammo.
After all that the only reason I can see for switching calibers is to go with one that you shoot better. I started with the 9 and then shot a friends 45. Shot the 45 better and made the switch. To this day I shoot 45 better than anything. No clue why, could be that I just suck the least with the 45... Never know.
Don't get me wrong I get the training thing I really do. I was more just interested in the caliber/ platform debate. Never been a big .40 fan but the gen4 glocks seem to fix the problems associated with. 40 and the m&pc seem to be a great 45 platform
Glock 23 if you want a .40 for the same reasons everyone says to buy another G19. only now you have a .40 on a system you know, and you can get a conversion barrel in 9mm. get a .357 sig barrel and a .22 kit, and have four calibers in one gun. its the way to go in my opinion.
Do you really want a .40? Personally, I would not get a G23. If you buy a .40 buy a platform BUILT for .40, not an up-sized 9mm; want a .40 then buy an HK. Get a USPc or a P2000, maybe even a P2000SK if size is truly an issue, if not try to find a P30 in .40. I have never had a .40 platform run as well as the HK's I have now or have had in the past. The SIGs and Berettas I have had have been beat to hell by 155gr .40's, not so the HKs, although I am anxious to try an M&P in .40.
as far as knockdown power that exceeds 9mm, i'd have to go 10mm or 357 mag before the difference was big enough to justify the added expense of a new gun, reloading dies, components/ammo and mags.
9 really is a hell of a good round.
that said, if you have the money and you want a new gun, buy one. A man doesn't always have to be rational with his gun purchases any more than a woman has to be rational with her shoe purchases. :D
Knockdown power? You are not going to find that with any service caliber handgun round.
If you are an LE officer who has a high probability of shooting around vehicles and through intermediate barriers, then the .40 makes a lot of sense--my first choice would be an M&P40 followed by an HK.
If you are a municipal LE officer or a civilian in a state that allows standard capacity magazines, then it is hard to beat a 9 mm using good quality ammunition, as it is easy to shoot one handed, relatively inexpensive to practice with, has lots of bullets on tap. When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a 1911. The 9 mm Glocks, M&P, and HK P30 are currently the best handgun choices available in this caliber.
For folks who live in states that limit magazine capacity to 10 rounds and under, along with those stuck prohibitions on expanding ammunition, for LE personnel who may need to shoot through barriers, or for folks who get lots of free ammo, then .45 ACP is a good option. As noted (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887), a properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. However, for the majority of folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they are far better served with the S&W M&P45, HK45c, or even a G21sf.
doc, knockdown power was somewhat tongue in cheek. it's just the usual justification i hear for going to something like a 45. over a 9mm.
I'm personally of the "lots of holes as quickly and accurately as possible" school of thought.
I have a couple of 9mm's, a .40 and a .45
One thing that has been in my mind for a couple of years now, is the point Doc touched on about shooting one handed. Given the choice, if I have two hands then I will use two hands. But there may be times, one hand is all you got.
I love .45's. But the vast majority of double stack .45's are more than one hand full (and I have large hands). Obviously this is an individual issue, but my gut says it is common. Besides the trigger, I think people may shoot 1911's well simply because they can get a good grip. Increased .45 capacity at the cost of a good grip and resultant control & accuracy is a poor tradeoff. YMMV
The last weapon added to my arsenal was the H&K P30 in .40 I was actually at the store to buy a H&K 45, but when I held the P30 I simply knew I had a better grip.
I like the .40 as a round, in part because it is bigger & heavier, and yet I do not believe it is that much more difficult to shoot than a 9mm. Certainly in a H&K P30 .40 is very shootable.
Stay safe.
I'd considered buying an M&P40 recently during the most recent run on 9mm ammunition cleared the shelves. There was plenty of .40 and .45 available - it might be nice to be able to buy something to shoot...
DocGKR has it correct. I'd rather be in a gunfight with someone on my side with a 9mm and good with it, than someone with a heavier cal. who was not.
Bullet placement trumps cal. So training is more important than that debate over Cal. Nobody giving GOOD training gives it away. I've been to several courses and haven't felt the cash was wasted after a one of them.
Most difficult, picking a good instructor and training area. Often I see the control lost with the .40cal isn't worth the added ballistics over the 9mm.
If you absolutely positively have to spend money on a new handgun instead of ammo or good quality training, then be SMART and get another G19, as previously discussed in other threads regarding this same topic...
^This^
If the G19 works for you, and you carry and train with it, eventually you might either break it or lose it to the evidence locker if you become involved in a defensive shooting. Best to have a spare instead of owning one of everything else.
If you are independently wealthy, then disregard, buy whatever you want.
jasonhgross
02-02-11, 12:21
Lets talk finite resources. I will assume you don't have an infinite amount of money or time. Lets allso assume that your shooting effectiveness is roughly equivalient to the amount of time you correctly train (perfect practice makes perfect). So if shooting effectiveness is largely determined by training and training = opportunity + time + will + money and you can provide the opportunity, time and will, then the amount you train can come down to the amount of money you have for training.
At current prices, .45 and .40 is between 33% and 50% more expensive than 9mm. So if you stick to 9mm, not only is your life easier because you only have one caliber to account for, but you also have more money to put into your training budget, which can result in increased total training, thus contributing to increased combat effectiveness. And isnt that what its about anyway. If you want something bright, shiny and new as far as caliber or bullet launching platform then go for it, but you wont find a good rational basis for making the switch to a different platform or caliber.
Beat Trash
02-02-11, 14:18
If you absolutely positively have to spend money on a new handgun instead of ammo or good quality training, then be SMART and get another G19, as previously discussed in other threads regarding this same topic...
This is what I would recommend also, there are a few threads discussing the many reasons why this is sound logic.
As far as knock down power? Unless you are talking about knocking down bowling pins, then discussing "knockdown power" ranks right up there with having a serious discussion about "killing zombies".
In the end, it's about putting rounds on target before the other guy puts his rounds on target. A reliable handgun that you can shoot proficiently while under stress, combined with the use of good tactics is what is important for a defensive handgun.
Do a search on some of Dr. Gary Roberts work, or go to the terminal effects section and read some of the stickies. There really isn't that much difference between the 9mm, 40, & 45acp.
The Glock 19 is an excellent defensive handgun (I have one on my person as I type this). Learn to become proficient with your Glock 19 first.
would there be any practical reason to buy say an m&p 45c or gen4 23 over another glock 19 other than I want one?
Since you asked for opinions, I'd have to say no... I don't see any reason for buying the same or a similar pistol in a slightly larger caliber. Don't listen to what people on the internet say, all common service pistol calibers are basically the same with similar ammunition. If the 9mm was as weak as some people claim I think at least some Euro Police agencies would have switched over the last decade...
I personally also prefer to keep my ammo supply simple. I try to stick to the same caliber for all my semi-autos. Makes it easier and less expensive to buy (or load if that's your thing) lots of ammo.
But other than that, got for it, new guns and different calibers are fun :D
Knockdown power? You are not going to find that with any service caliber handgun round.
If you are an LE officer who has a high probability of shooting around vehicles and through intermediate barriers, then the .40 makes a lot of sense--my first choice would be an M&P40 followed by an HK.
If you are a municipal LE officer or a civilian in a state that allows standard capacity magazines, then it is hard to beat a 9 mm using good quality ammunition, as it is easy to shoot one handed, relatively inexpensive to practice with, has lots of bullets on tap. When I injured my strong hand a few years ago and lost its use for several months, I found out how much more effective I was using a G19 weak handed compared to a 1911. The 9 mm Glocks, M&P, and HK P30 are currently the best handgun choices available in this caliber.
For folks who live in states that limit magazine capacity to 10 rounds and under, along with those stuck prohibitions on expanding ammunition, for LE personnel who may need to shoot through barriers, or for folks who get lots of free ammo, then .45 ACP is a good option. As noted (https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887), a properly customized 5" steel-frame single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP is a superb, unparalleled choice for the dedicated user willing to spend a significant amount of money to get it properly initially set-up and considerable time to maintain it. However, for the majority of folks who want a .45 ACP pistol, but don't want to invest the funds and effort into getting a good 1911, they are far better served with the S&W M&P45, HK45c, or even a G21sf.
Game, set, match.
After shooting a Gen 4 G23 I came very close to getting one, it was that good. But then I sobered up to why exactly? My battery of Glock 9mms handled all my needs.
The only way to answer this question for yourself is to buy a 40 or a 45 and try them out. You work in a gunshop, so you can probably get pistols and ammo cheap...
Okie John
I like the two is one analogy. If I were in a position to buy another handgun right now, it would be another 9mm Glock.
Lost River
02-02-11, 20:20
You will never know until you try it.
Buy it, try it, then sell what does not work for you.
Give a new platform a reasonable chance. For example, run 10k through a new platform and compare your results in regards to speed and accuarcy.
Don't just blast away. Run some standardized drills and document the results. Then you can revisit the results and make a decision based upon actual performance.
Then when that is all said and done, you will probably be right back to where you started. :D
Build a battery of 9mm Glocks, 17/19/26 and so on...
Build a battery of 9mm Glocks, 17/19/26 and so on...
Just like he said multiple 9mm. I would get either another 19 or a 26 for a more concealable carry plus the magazines from your 19 can be used in the 26 as well. Nothing against the bigger caliber but that is just one more caliber that you need to buy and stock up on. Me personally I would rather have a stock pile of 9mm and be able to use it in any of my hand guns. Either way have fun with it and enjoy.
If I want to shoot the wings off a fly at 20 yards, I use a 9mm. If I just want to splat the fly at 20 yards, I use a 40 S&W. If I want to shoot the eye balls off a fly I use a 45 ACP 1911, but there isn't much else left.
Jim
RancidSumo
02-02-11, 22:07
If I want to shoot the wings off a fly at 20 yards, I use a 9mm. If I just want to splat the fly at 20 yards, I use a 40 S&W. If I want to shoot the eye balls off a fly I use a 45 ACP 1911, but there isn't much else left.
Jim
What the hell does that mean?
As to the OP, I personally have no love for the .40, the recoil characteristics are way to sharp for my liking. I would just stick with 9mm if I were you with .45 being as expensive as it is.
Not really. Spend your money on ammo and training.
I concur.
The chamber pressures on average between the 9mm and the .45acp are not that far apart. Around 19,000psi and around 25,000 psi. So to me, they aren't that far apart as felt recoil goes.
So I train with the P30 and carry the 45C.
However, the .40cal and10mm come in around 31,000 to 33,000 psi. What I see from cadets and students on the range is the seperation of the support hand from the two hand grip on a regular basis. I do not see this normally with the 9mm or generally with the 45acp either.
This seperation either changes the angle of the support hand or takes time to reestablish the original grip. Not with all shooters, but with the average and I believe the majority.
I have the above mentioned calibers. and I know by timing that I'm faster with a 9mm and .45acp than I am with the .40cal.
Which is an entire other topic of timing during training to really know what different guns and calibers do to effectiveness
RogerinTPA
02-03-11, 21:26
Stick with one platform, since you already have a G19, as others have stated, get another G19. One for training, and one for carry. Get professional training a couple of times a year. Buy a shit ton of ammo and practice what you've learned.
madisonsfinest
02-03-11, 21:50
I think you should stick with the same calibre. That being said I picked up a Gen 4 G17 and didn't find it easier to shoot then the G4 G22. Now I was shooting +p+ ammo out of the 9mm. I haven't shot this round for years as I switched to the .40 some years back, but after shooting it again I was surprised at how hot the +p+ rounds were. I sold the 9mm and I'm sticking with the .40's I'm running now.
John_Wayne777
02-04-11, 08:04
I mean obviously the ammo would be more expensive but barring that is there any practicality?
A 9mm loaded properly will do anything you can reasonably expect a service caliber handgun to do. That's been proven beyond question. A .40 or .45 loaded properly will also do anything you can reasonably expect a handgun to do.
My generic advice is to stick to whatever caliber you can do the most training with. If you are a police officer and you get .40 caliber ammo for free or at a reduced price, stick to it. If you're average Joe and you pay your own ammo bill, 9mm is probably the most economical option for you.
Training will do you far more good in a real fight than an extra .02 inches of bullet diameter. Buy a reliable weapon in a decent caliber (you've already done that), then spend your time and money worrying about learning to use it with precision. Training is almost always a more prudent investment than another gun.
I was in the same boat and went with another glock 19, set it up just like my other. That way i'm concentrating on one platform, and with the cost of ammo, I can practice alot more with 9mm than I can with 45.
Personally, I like .45 over just about everything else for reloading cheap ammo. So if you reload, I'd give the nod to .45 with a gun that will shoot lead bullets.
Other than that, 9mm, just like everyone else says.
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